What Happened at First

Trailer Jul 10, 2023

How did a single congregation grow to become one of the largest and most influential churches in America only to experience a cataclysmic decline that placed its very existence in doubt? How did that same church endure a brutal and painful season of change to emerge from the transition stronger, more united, and more committed than ever to Jesus’ Great Commission? Podcast releases on August 7th, 2023. Subscribe for main episodes and bonus content.

Trailer 2 Jul 21, 2023

How did a single congregation grow to become one of the largest and most influential churches in America only to experience a cataclysmic decline that placed its very existence in doubt? How did that same church endure a brutal and painful season of change to emerge from the transition stronger, more united, and more committed than ever to Jesus’ Great Commission? Podcast releases on August 7th, 2023. Subscribe for main episodes and bonus content.

Rise - Episode 1 Aug 07, 2023

This episode will feature:

- An overview of the significant leadership role First Baptist Jacksonville had within the SBC, its influence on ministries throughout America via its pastor’s conferences, as well as the imprint the church made upon the city of Jacksonville.

- Even though the church enjoyed great prestige, in more recent years, it has experienced a dramatic decline as mounting problems necessitated massive changes.

- These changes were met with brutally sinful responses, and many in the church had to endure a season of difficulty never experienced before.

- Yet, through it all, God was faithful and has blessed First Baptist Jacksonville, making it a more vibrant and faithful church where God is glorified and the people are blessed.

- If you have any questions or would like more information about what was discussed on this episode, please submit your questions to WhatHappened@fbcjax.com. We would love to hear from you!

What Kind of Leader Are You? - Bonus Episode 1 Aug 09, 2023

This Episode will feature:

- An introduction to doing ministry in a changing world in churches inherited from previous generations.

- A discussion on six different kinds of leaders found in the Bible and how former pastors of First Baptist emulated those leaders.

- Lessons on leadership that call for those in pastoral ministry to answer some significant questions about themselves and the ministries into which God has placed them.

- Interviews from past and current staff members about the legacy of Homer Lindsay Jr. and the reputation of First Baptist during the days of “The Miracle of Downtown Jacksonville.”

- If you have any questions or would like more information about what was discussed on this episode, please submit your questions to WhatHappened@fbcjax.com. We would love to hear from you!

Q+A - Episode 1 Aug 11, 2023

Here are the questions asked in this episode:

- What is the most important lesson you learned from the ministry of Homer Lindsay Jr.?

- What is the most surprising strength of historic First Baptist from the past that has continued to bless our church over the decades?

- Many of the big mega churches of the past have a history of “easy-believism” - these were unhelpful evangelism methods that emphasized making “decisions” over discipleship and church membership. Is that part of the First Baptists' story? If so, what are the consequences of that in First Baptists culture?

- How do you identify what kind of leader you are? How do you identify what kind of leader your church has?

- I’m a “Maintainer” but want to become a “Builder.” What steps can I take to make that leadership switch?

- I am a pastor of a church in decline. Should I get out of the way and bring in a “Builder” who can turn this around?

- What are you asking God to do through this podcast?

- If you have any questions or would like more information about what was discussed on this episode, please submit your questions to WhatHappened@fbcjax.com. We would love to hear from you!

Ruin - Episode 2 Aug 14, 2023

This episode will feature:

• How one photo represents both a shift in the SBC and the end of a golden age in the life of First Baptist. WA Criswell, The Old Time Religion

- How the pinnacle of growth under the Lindsay years was marked by constructing its 10,000-seat Main Auditorium.

- The succession of pastors and the two decades of painful decline following Homer Lindsay Jr's death.

- Conversations with church members, including one from Lindsay’s own family, who explain their heartbreaking experience as they witnessed the church’s troublesome descent.

- If you have any questions or want more information about what was discussed in this episode, please submit your questions to WhatHappened@fbcjax.com We would love to hear from you!

Why Do Churches Decline? - Bonus Episode 2 Aug 16, 2023

This episode will feature:

- Eight reasons churches decline and why this should be an encouragement and motive for change rather than being reasons to lament and complain.

- Three lessons to learn about ministry decline and how leaders can expect and plan for it rather than be overwhelmed when it happens.

- Change is inevitable and hard, but the main task of a leader is to be faithful to his calling and trust the Lord with the results, for he is always at work for his glory and for the good of his church.

- If you have any questions or would like more information about what was discussed on this episode, please submit your questions to WhatHappened@fbcjax.com. We would love to hear from you!

Q+A - Episode 2 Aug 18, 2023

Here are the questions asked in this episode:

- You talk about this photo of Criswell, Vines, and Lindsay – and how the decline had already been happening and nobody saw it. Help me here: was it even possible for them to see the decline? What were the signs back then?

- Is it wrong to have nostalgia over things in the church like pews, buildings, pulpits, and rooms? What would you say to church members who still grieve the loss of those “old things”?

- You mentioned that before Lindsay built the main auditorium there were descending voices. What were the objections? Why did they proceed?

- What motivated Dr. Lindsay to build a 10,000-seat auditorium? Of course, we can’t see motives, but I’d appreciate your perspective (this was a listener question).

- How do you stay ahead of the decline in a church?

- Jimmy Scroggins talks about staying flexible in facilities and finances. How are you doing that right now? How are things different now than they were before?

- How do you keep your ministry team unified today and from having competing visions and philosophies of ministry?

- You talk about not playing the blame game in the leadership podcast this week, we often think about leaders not blaming predecessors of the congregation. That’s so important. But what about when congregations do it? They might blame leaders or pastors for every bad thing they see in the church. How should members navigate this? Have you seen this happen?

- You end the leadership podcast by saying that leaders much keep their successors in mind. Imagine that you had the opportunity to know who that 7th-grade kid is. What would you tell him that he needs to know about this precious church called First Baptist? What does he need to know about what you’ve done? What do you think he’ll need to adjust?

- If you have any questions or would like more information about what was discussed on this episode, please submit your questions to WhatHappened@fbcjax.com. We would love to hear from you!

Change - Episode 3 Aug 21, 2023

This episode will feature:

- A failure to change course is deadly.

- You will hear of Dr. Lambert’s journey to becoming senior pastor of FBC, how he grew to love this church, and his observations in the early years of what needed to change.

- The church faced massive problems with a debt of tens of millions of dollars, oversized and failing facilities, a bloated and divided staff, and diminishing numbers of members and givers. September 8 video http://whathappenedatfirstbaptist.com.

- The church was declining, and something needed to change, which meant that tumultuous days would come.

- If you have any questions or want more information about what was discussed in this episode, please submit your questions to WhatHappened@fbcjax.com. We would love to hear from you!

How Should Leaders Lead Through Change? - Bonus Episode 3 Aug 23, 2023

This episode will feature:

- Change happens. It will happen to your ministry, and it will happen to you. But how should leaders deal with change in a wise and God-honoring way?

- In the midst of transition, there is the tension of loving the people you have while at the same time having a heart for those you are trying to reach. How was this tension handled at First Baptist?

- Dr. Lambert shares eight principles for leading through change that was evident at FBC as the church altered its course in finances, facilities, programs, and personnel, all the while remaining faithful to the Great Commission.

- Link to the last Jacksonville Passion Play: http://whathappenedatfirstbaptist.com.

- Link to the Jonah Series: Asleep in the Storm Thrown Into the Sea Awake in a Fish A City Awakened Life Lessons from a Reluctant Prophet

- If you have any questions or want more information about what was discussed in this episode, please submit your questions to WhatHappened@fbcjax.com. We would love to hear from you!

Q+A - Episode 3 Aug 25, 2023

Here are the questions asked in this episode:

- One reality that overwhelmed me during this episode was the amount of things that needed to change at First Baptist. You list them in the episode. Financial. Facilities. Personnel. Programming. You paint the picture that everything felt like it was on fire. How did you choose what to focus on first?

- You talk in several episodes about the difference between principles that don’t change and practicals that do. One of the painful realities of change is that there is often disagreement about what is a principle and what is a practical. How do you navigate this? Is there a gray area between principles and practicals?

- One of the changes that is very personal to me at our church is the change that was made to multi-site ministry. At one time we had four campuses, now we only have two. Even the "way" we do multi-site ministry has changed. Could you tell us the story of that change?

- As you have chronicled all the changes that happened at First Baptist – which one do you think was the most difficult for our people to absorb? Which one was most difficult for you to absorb?

- You admit at the end of the leadership podcast this week that most pastors will advise moving to make slow changes in the church's life. You say that you “jerked the wheel” Why did you jerk the wheel? And how do you decide when that is necessary for leadership? Here is the video that is referencedhttp://whathappenedatfirstbaptist.com

- How do you determine what is “ineffective ministry” in a staff member? Don’t we have biblical examples of being faithful resulting in a shrinking ministry or fewer people listening to you or being part of the ministry?

- Before we end this episode – I want to hear from you on a question that I think people will be asking as they listen to the next few episodes as you chronicle many painful details about your time at First Baptist.

Why do we have to do this? This is very hard to listen to – the drama, the difficulty, the stories of lies and pain. Why can’t we focus on the future? Why not just focus on faithful ministry in our city? Why retell all this?

- If you have any questions or would like more information about what was discussed on this episode, please submit your questions to WhatHappened@fbcjax.com. We would love to hear from you!

Pain - Episode 4 Aug 28, 2023

This episode will feature:

- Change is necessary, but it is going to hurt.

- First Baptist Jacksonville needed to make some drastic changes or the church was going to die. Yet those changes were made in hopes that on the other side of the pain would be a renewed season of ministry faithfulness and further advancement of the gospel.

- Dr. Lambert will share four different kinds of pain that he and others in the church experienced through the loss of relationships and the fears that came with the uncertainty of the future. September 8 Recap Video http://whathappenedatfirstbaptist.com .

- If you have any questions or would like more information about what was discussed on this episode, please submit your questions to WhatHappened@fbcjax.com, we would love to hear from you!

How You Can Prepare Your Church For Pain? - Bonus Episode 4 Aug 30, 2023

This episode will feature:

- Change comes with loss and pain, and there are no guarantees that your plans will work.

- There is a need to focus on the long game in a way that looks through the details of logistics to see the recovery of the vision and priorities of the church for a new day.

- Dr. Lambert will discuss the mission of First Baptist, which is to Reach all Jacksonville with all of Jesus for all of life, along with the seven core values and the five faithful activities of all Christians. Focus 2020 series on the mission and core values of FBC: http://whathappenedatfirstbaptist.com.

- Practices and programs will come and go, but faithfulness to biblical truth and a commitment to pointing people to Jesus must never change.

- If you have any questions or would like more information about what was discussed on this episode, please submit your questions to WhatHappened@fbcjax.com, we would love to hear from you!

Q+A - Episode 4 Sep 01, 2023

- One of the main themes of this episode is about people leaving our church.

- There are people listening to this podcast who are in churches going through painful change. They are thinking about leaving. Are there good reasons to leave? What are some bad reasons to leave? Talk to those folks.

- There are people who *started* attending our church in the season of pain. They show up, realize that there are hard things going on, and are trying to decide if they should stay. Did that ever happen at First Baptist? How did you handle that? Would you encourage people to go to a church in a painful transition?

- There are pastors listening to this podcast who have had close friends leave the church. What would you say to them after a close friend or even staff member has left over a disagreement? What encouragement would you give them?

- Some of our church members have relationships with folks who *really* don’t like our church and, honestly, you and the change you led. It makes their relationships complicated. Sometimes it’s family members, friends, co-workers, etc. What advice would you give them as this podcast releases and they try to navigate relationships that are important to them?

- A few episodes ago you told us that you made a commitment not to blame anyone for the trouble of a church. But the reality is that whenever you are the new guy who is changing things – you are changing something that someone else created and oversaw. How do you change things that your predecessors oversaw while still honoring them?

- Some pastors get really messed up from this type of pain – how do you keep trusting people and loving people after experiencing this sort of tumult?

- If you have any questions or would like more information about what was discussed on this episode, please submit your questions to WhatHappened@fbcjax.com. We would love to hear from you!

Lies - Episode 5 Sep 04, 2023

This episode will feature:

- People lied about Jesus during his ministry, and people will lie about the leaders of his church, especially in the midst of change and transition.

- Dr. Lambert will share some of the many lies that were swirling around the church as he and other leaders sought to make the necessary changes at First Baptist.

- While most of the dishonesty was intentionally unaddressed, there was one lie that was so big with far-reaching ramifications that it required a response. What was that lie, and what was the response?

- If you have any questions or would like more information about what was discussed on this episode, please submit your questions to WhatHappened@fbcjax.com, we would love to hear from you!

Why Do People Tell Lies? - Episode 5 Sep 06, 2023

- In the trial of Jesus, many people brought numerous false accusations which ultimately led to his crucifixion.

- During the midst of change and transition, there will be those who will seek to destroy ministry leaders through deception and get others to join in the proverbial crucifixion.

- Dr. Lambert will explain three reasons why people lie when it comes to ministry change, as well as provide some guidelines for ministry leaders and ministry members on how to handle falsehood, especially in our digital age.

- If you have any questions or would like more information about what was discussed on this episode, please submit your questions to WhatHappened@fbcjax.com, we would love to hear from you!

Q+A - Episode 5 Sep 08, 2023

Here are the questions asked in this episode:

- How can the narrative be taken control of by a small group of people to spread lies like this?

- One listener wrote in and asked about another rumor they heard about our church. The rumor is that one of the reasons that people were leaving First Baptist was because it started teaching reformed theology. Is that true? How would you respond to that statement?

- If Dr. Brunson wasn’t forced out, why did he leave? What happened?

- You mentioned in this episode that you received a legal letter, and then you sought legal counsel from a law firm in town. One listener wrote in and asked why you did that in light of Paul’s command in 1 Corinthians 6 forbidding believers to take each other to court.

- How do you discern which lies you must respond to as a leader in the church in this day and age?

- It's obvious there are people who are listening to the podcast each week who disagree with you, and so you have an opportunity to talk to them. You have their ear. What do you want to say to them?

- The other group of people are those who – again – are having their relationships get complicated over this episode. They are seeing things on social media, and they are getting stressed by this. They want to know why we are doing this again. What should they do? How do they navigate this?

Stay - Episode 6 Sep 11, 2023

This episode will feature:

- In the spring of 2020, the complex changes at First Baptist were made even more difficult as the global impact of COVID affected all the plans for revitalization.

- Yet while the situation got increasingly tumultuous, Dr. Lambert chose to stay and shares several reasons why you should try to stay at a church going through change, as well as some legitimate reasons why it might be time to leave, and bits of advice on how to leave well.

- First Baptist Church members will testify to the great things that the Lord has done and the blessing they now see on the other side of the trials of change.

- If you have any questions or would like more information about what was discussed on this episode, please submit your questions to WhatHappened@fbcjax.com. We would love to hear from you!

What Mistakes Did I Make - Bonus Episode 6 Sep 13, 2023

This episode will feature:

- In leadership, it is inevitable that your plans will change, and failures will happen around you that are outside of your control. This was true for FBC as COVID hit in the spring of 2020.

- As the external failures increase, your leadership weaknesses will show, and you are going to come up short as a leader.

- Dr. Lambert shares twelve mistakes that he made as a leader and the many lessons he learned the hard way through those tumultuous years.

- If you have any questions or would like more information about what was discussed on this episode, please submit your questions to WhatHappened@fbcjax.com, we would love to hear from you!

Q+A - Episode 6 Sep 15, 2023

This episode will include:

- During the hard days, there were a lot of personal attacks on you, some of the most heartbreaking parts of the podcast; however, are when you talk about the impact on your family. One listener wrote in and asked how you and your wife separated the roles of being a pastor and pastor’s wife from the roles of being dad and mom. Can you talk about how you did that?

- Part of the time of transition at First Baptist involved downsizing our staff. You talk about this in episode 5 and reference it again in episode 6. One listener wrote in response to this information and asked about the nuts and bolts of hiring and firing in a church context. Particularly, they asked about the use of NDA's. They wanted to know if it's biblical for Christian churches and organizations to use NDAs and if that’s part of our hiring and firing process at First Baptist.

- One listener wrote in response to all the sinful behavior that occurred toward you and our church during the time of transition. They asked about the role of church discipline at this time. Were any members pursued or disciplined by the church for their divisive behavior?

- In episode 6, you encourage people to not have a consumer mentality with church but then say it is okay for some people to leave when the preferences that brought them to the church in the first place have been radically altered but the core might still be faithful. These two things seem contradictory, could you help me think through more of the details of what you are trying to say?

- You said in the leadership podcast this week about mistakes you made that you should have left because of the weight it was on your family. There are many pastors who are constantly evaluating this in their lives. Can you give some principles on evaluating when this is too much on their family?

- There are people listening to this podcast, who have unrestored relationships but who deeply desire restoration. I know that is part of your story. What encouragement would you give people in a similar position to you?

Stand - Episode 7 Sep 18, 2023

This episode will feature:

- By the fall of 2022, by and large, First Baptist was on the other side of the hardships of change with a renewed sense of joy in the church.

- However, cultural developments, especially in the city of Jacksonville, called for the church to take a stand for the truth through FBC’s Statement on Biblical Sexuality.

- How was this statement received both inside and outside the church? And how did First Baptist respond to the attention received?

- If you have any questions or would like more information about what was discussed on this episode, please submit your questions to WhatHappened@fbcjax.com, we would love to hear from you!

Will You Take a Stand? - Bonus Episode 7 Sep 20, 2023

This episode will feature:

- First Corinthians 16:13-14 says, “Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong. Let all that you do be done in love.”

- In order to lead well in a God-honoring way, one must wisely strike a balance between solid convictions and compassionate care.

- Dr. Lambert will talk about how to be “tender and tough” as he shares the wisdom gained from taking a stand for truth in FBC’s Statement on Biblical Sexuality.

- If you have any questions or would like more information about what was discussed on this episode, please submit your questions to WhatHappened@fbcjax.com, we would love to hear from you!

Q+A - Episode 7 Sep 22, 2023

This episode will include:

- How much of what happened at First do you attribute to spiritual warfare? How important is it to recognize Satanic opposition in ministry?

- We hear a lot of people talking about theological triage and which doctrines are most important for Christian leaders to address in their ministries. This episode gets me wondering about ministry triage. How can we know which ministry issues need to be addressed right away and which ones can wait?

- How has the sexuality statement “aged” at our church? In the community?

- The historic way that First Baptist engaged with our city was through door-to-door evangelism. How does First Baptist engage with the city and share the gospel today?

- You took a stand about sexuality because you say in the podcast that it is the greatest sin in American culture. From where you are sitting – what are the biggest issues facing American Christianity that pastors must be prepared to engage with?

- One pastor wrote in who is leading a church of a comparable size to ours that is healthy and thriving asked: “What is the biggest threat to large churches going into the future?”

- God works everything together for good. What are some of the good things that he has done at First Baptist through all the struggles we have gone through?

- What are you most excited about when you think about the future of First Baptist?

An Interview with Heath and Lauren - Episode 8 Oct 16, 2023

Thank you so much for listening to the What Happened at First Baptist Podcast! We hope this has been a blessing to you and please enjoy this bonus episode of Pastor Heath and his wife Lauren.

Blooper Reel Apr 11, 2024

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