Show notes
Who likes pirates? Everybody, as issue #3 of Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons’ Watchmen, “The Judge of All the Earth,” introduces the incredible juxtaposition of “Tales of the Black Freighter.” Meanwhile, Dr. Manhattan deals with several surprising setbacks, Dan and Laurie draw closer, and the Doomsday Clock ticks ever closer to midnight. SUBSCRIBE TO WATCHMEN WATCH ON ITUNES, ANDROID, SPOTIFY, STITCHER, OR RSS. FOLLOW US ON TWITTER, INSTAGRAM AND FACEBOOK. SUPPORT OUR SHOWS ON PATREON. The theme music for Watchmen Watch was written and performed by Jeff Solomon. Plus, here’s a transcript of the episode for you to read through as you listen: Alex: Welcome to Watchmen Watch, a podcast about HBO’s Watchmen, who watches the Watchmen? We watch the Watchmen, also watch you watching the Watchmen. I’m Alex. Justin: I’m Justin. Pete: I am Pete. That’s a lot of watching. Alex: It is a lot of watching. Unfortunately, there’s one person who isn’t going to be watching this week. Justin, what’s going on here? Justin: Obviously, our fourth host, Alan Moore, he is usually here for this. I think he’s been at all of them up until this one, but he just texted me. He can’t make it, he’s trapped in the mid ’80s. Alex: Oh. Justin: And so his Skype settings aren’t working quite correctly. Alex: This is the problem with having a guy who has the power of time travel on our podcast. It’s very disappointing, but you know what? He’s been a good friend. The other day I was feeling a little down and he just appeared. He apparated, if you will, and said, “Hey, how you doing buddy? You want to hang out? You want to get some PSLs?” And I was like, “Yeah, I want to get some PSLs.” And he bought us the PSLs, venti eve, venti PSLs. That’s the kind of guy, Alan Moore is. Justin: Wow, that’s good. He’s a good friend, a great enemy and a magnificent bastard. Alex: Well, I’m very disappointed that he won’t be here this week, but we will be talking about the third issue of the Watchmen comic book, The Judge of All the Earth, as we continue to ramp up to debut of the HBO series on October 20th. Before we get into the issue though, I want to confess something to you guys- Pete: Oh shit. Alex: … now that we’re a couple of episodes into this podcast. Justin: All right, about time. Alex: This podcast makes me very nervous. Pete: Why? Justin: Ooh. Alex: The reason it makes me very nervous is because Watchmen is so revered throughout our entire history as comic book reviewers, throughout the history of comic books that were released the past couple of decades of comic book history. I feel, and I was curious to get your guys’ vent on it, your guys’ take on it, but I feel a responsibility to get everything right. And I’m terrified that people are going to point out things that we got hideously wrong. And normally I don’t feel that on our podcast, but this one I definitely do. How are you guys feeling about it? Are you pretty chill about it, or you’re feeling like I am, Justin: Well now I’m stressed. No, I feel like this is sort of getting into … it’s like were archeologists digging up like a pretty sick dinosaur. Alex: Yeah. Like what’s the sweetest dinosaur? I’m going to say stegosaurus. Justin: Yeah. And obviously we have our forth hosts, the king of the dinosaurs here normally with us. So that’s cool to dig up a dinosaur with the king of the dinosaurs. Alex: Oh, that’s rude to the man who bought me a venti PSL with a nutmeg spritz on it, which was very nice. Pete, what about you? How are you feeling about this? How are you feel about talking about Watchmen so far, now that we’re- Pete: Well, I feel like Watchmen has been talked about so much. There’s such a huge … some people call it the grail of comic books, of graphic novels, that I feel like we’re just giving a, how we feel about it, our take on it, and that doesn’t stress me out. But there is a weight to this though that is something to be revered. Alex: Yeah. It also, I mean it helps, but it doesn’t help that as we’ve been kind of joking about the past couple of episodes, it’s a really good book. Like, we’ve talked about this at a couple of episodes, but you sort of abstract how good Watchmen is over the years when you’re talking about it. But getting back into it and this issue again, I was struck because we’ve been talking about juxtaposition quite a bit on the podcast, but this issue hits it real hard, like crazy hard. And the amount of effort and time and thought that goes into that, not that modern comic book writers and generally comic writers aren’t putting the thought, but the extra … several extra levels that are going on there make it super impressive. And it, I feel an onus to deliver on that in our podcast. Justin: Yeah, I think … well that’s … if we want to talk about the things that really stand out on rereading this, the pacing of this comic is so … it’s just so stunning how … the way it just moves through the story in really complex ideas, and a series of different complex ideas. Alex: Yeah. Well let’s talk about this issue, because I thought this was a fascinating one. The first few ones … the first two issues of the book very squarely focused on the mystery of who killed Edward Blake as we continue to flesh out the characters, as we continue to flesh out the themes of this book. To my mind, at least on first read, on a very surface read, it feels like it almost takes a step back from that. You know, we get a lot of character movement in this one. This is the one that introduces the Tales of the Black Freighter. We get a lot of thematic resonance in terms of what’s going on in the world. There’s this literal doomsday clock counting down to the potential destruction of the world, the way that the people in the world think it’s going to happen with the war between Russia and the United States, but they don’t know they going to get squinted. What did you guys think about this issue in general? What was your feeling on it? Pete: Also this one, this to me is … we saw New York a lot in the first two issues, but this is to me is like classic New York, especially the way it starts, like the guy in the street thinking he kind of knows everything because he lives in New York City, and because of the things that he’s seen. Alex: True. Pete: But I also love the detail. Like, if you look at the stand and all the little things in the stand, it … that says so much about this comic that there is no just background fill-in stuff, everything is thought about it. You can look at the titles of the magazines. You know, they take a shot at Richard Nixon in this. Plus, you have the thermos and the lunchbox, which just kind of brought me back, and I was like, “Oh man, I miss my thermos.” I used to just like eat Ramen out of my thermos, and it was a good time. Justin: Ramen you say? Ramen? Pete: Yeah. Justin: You eat a noodle soup out of a thermos? Pete: Yeah, man. Alex: Did you, sorry to a hook into this too much, but Pete, did you just slurp a bunch of doodles out there, or what was going on? Pete: Yeah, man. Take off the cap, slurp some noodles. Justin: Wow. Pete: You don’t need no utensils, man. Alex: All right. I mean that’s one of the- Justin: What year was this? Pete: Last year. Justin: Was this in a post apocalyptic world? Pete: Dude, I hate to break it to you, Ramen has been around for a minute, bro, especially instant Ramen. Alex: Do you know that bowls exist? Are you aware of that? Pete: Yes. Yes I am. Alex: Oh, all right, interesting. Justin: That’d be a crazy reveal. Pete’s never even seen a bowl. Alex: A what? Justin: Let me describe it. It’s like a plate with walls, just if you don’t know it, that’s what a bowl is. Alex: Yeah. Well one of the major themes of the issue is that thermoses exist, and what do you think about that? And they really do a good job of the juxtaposition there. Well let’s talk through the major themes of the issue before we walk through any of the- Pete: All right, but I- Alex: Yes, Pete, what? Pete: Just real quick though, I just wanted to say, because it’s like, it starts … we talked about, and especially in the last issue, how they think about the panel is kind of like a camera, a little bit. And you’re fully zoomed in on this fallout shelter sign, and it zooms out as the newsstand guy is talking. And it’s just about perspective, and that’s a lot about what this comic is about, is perspective. And it’s very interesting. Alex: Well specifically the fallout shelter sign, and this plays out throughout this issue in particular, because we’re dealing with radioactivity in a bunch of different ways. First of all there’s the fallout shelter, as you mentioned, which I believe it doesn’t show up on the first page, but it’s revealed later on that the newsstand is across from the Institute of, I think it’s Extra Spatial Studies- Justin: Yes. Alex: … which is, as we find out later on, where a certain squid appears towards the end of the series. So that’s the actual danger. That’s the actual fallout that’s going to happen by the end of the series. You have the second radioactive fallout, and the second instance of the radioactive fallout sign, when it’s put on Doctor Manhattan’s door late in the issue, when he is accused of irradiating people, giving them cancer. Whether that’s true or not is certainly up for debate, I think. I would argue it’s pretty clear that he’s not, but that’s certainly another bit that we’re dealing that with the radioactivity of potential danger, a thing that might be bubbling under the surface. Alex: And the last one is the war between Russia and the United States, we mentioned earlier, as they invade Afghanistan. And there’s this very satirical scene I think, where Richard Nixon is in the war room and they’re showing, yeah, this is what the nuclear fallout would be like if the Russians try to blow up the United States. Nixon, I don’t remember exactly what he says, but he’s kind of like, Yeah, you know? Oh, that seems pretty bad.” Justin: Yeah. Well, he’s, “Hmm,” and, “Would our losses be acceptable, or what’s the deal?” He’s pretty chill about it. Alex: Yeah, and this gets back to something we’ve mentioned on an earlier episode, which Watchmen doesn’t get enough credit for. It’s pretty funny at times, and I think in a very dark humor way, but that scene is amusing. Justin: Whoa, weird. Pete: Whoa, that was creepy dude. Alex: Amusing. Justin: And it’s fun. Covering these topics, America, Russia, Afghanistan, at least we’re past that stuff, you know? We don’t ever have to go back and deal with these issues, these scary issues. We can look at this as a time capsule, and something will never return to. Alex: Yes, that’s very nice and I agree. Now, the last issue was very focused on The Comedian, Eddie Blake. Given the grim humor it occurs to me, do you think Alan Moore in any way identifies with The Comedian, that he looks at this as like, this is a bleak wasteland, and all you can do is kind of laugh at the truth? Justin: I think so, yeah. He’s definitely meant to be … he’s the catalyst of this story, but he’s also sort of the one who has almost the right take. He knows more than anyone else at the beginning of the story from what we learned last issue when he talks to Moloch, and that’s why he’s eliminated first, I think you could say. And it does feel like he’s the one who’s laughing at the world, because the world doesn’t make sense, which is I’m … we’re meant to think Doctor Manhattan is the hero, but he actually is the most vulnerable by the end of the story. And The Comedian sort of is the most powerful, despite the fact that he died, because he knew everything. Alex: Yeah. Now there’s a couple of different trains that are running in this particular issue. We get a lot more focus on Doctor Manhattan and we don’t get his origin yet, I believe that’s coming up next issue, but we find out more about him. Laurie ends up breaking up with him, because he tries to please her with the threesome. But he is both parts of the threesome, and he’s also working at the same time, again, showing his misunderstanding of humanity. Eventually, as we say, he gets confronted with the irradiation. Then it ultimately ends up with even leaving Mars. Alex: But the second part of the issue, the seemingly smaller part of the issue is what’s going on at the newsstand. Now, we’ve been talking quite a bit about how we reacted to Watchmen back in the day versus reading it now. I remember very clearly reading this issue and subsequent issues when they brought up the Tales of the Black Freighter thing, and at the time when I first read it, I was like, “Oh, this is so boring. Oh my God, shut up about these pirates. Who cares?” Justin: They have nothing to do with anything! Alex: Yeah, but reading again, and reading it closely, I feel very dumb about my past me, because it’s so clear that exactly what is going out in the Tales of the Black Freighter narration is the interior monologue, or the interior feelings of the newsstand worker. Even if that’s not when he realizes. Justin: Yeah, and just a world in general that it’s already … we’re all already dead and we’re just sort of realizing that, is what our lives are. That sort of is the grim take. Alex: Yeah. It turns out, it’s a pretty good, a pretty good idea that that dude had, those dudes. Justin: Yeah, great dudes. Pete: And speaking of being dumber when you first read it, I mean, as a kid when I read this, women were kind of a little bit more alien to me, and I didn’t understand why Laurie was so upset at him, because it just seemed like, well he’s just trying to please her in a way that I didn’t quite understand. Like a threesome is a big deal, and so is multitasking. I didn’t get it, you know? But now reading this , it’s like- Justin: You were like, “This is what sex is.” Pete: Yeah, yeah. Justin: It’s twins having sex with a person, while their triplet works in the other room. Pete: Exactly, yup. Justin: Twins. Alex: Yeah. By the way, how did that go, Pete? Didn’t you do that last week? You had sex with those two blue dudes? Pete: Oh, it went great. Thanks for asking, yeah. Alex: The Blue Man Group, right? Pete: Yeah, yeah. Alex: One of them was doing the show in the other room, and you had sex with two of them. Was that nice? Did you have a nice time? Pete: Yeah, we’re still doing this bit. Okay, yeah, it was great. Alex: Yeah, this is going to go the whole episode, Pete. We’re not actually talking about the issue. We’re just going to talk about you having sex with The Blue Man Group. Justin: That’s what the show is now, mostly. They did away with all the tubes and stuff. It’s mostly live sex. Pete: I tell you, the stomp was so much better. Justin: Wow. Pete: Unrelated, unrelated. Alex: Yeah, you’ve got to have sex with Cirque du Soleil, now that fucked up shit. Pete: Oh yeah, that’s where the real sex is. Justin: I’m more of a, have sex with a regular circus guy. Pete: Oh, wow, old school. Justin: Yeah, I’m sort of a classic. Alex: I feel like I can’t comment on that, because of real life reasons. We won’t get into that though. Anyway, so back to the issue, so it does kick off with the fallout shelter. It kicks off with the newsstand. What did you think of total … I know we just touched on this a little bit, but what did you think total of the Black Freighter section, the newsstand section, the I guess, kid? I don’t know if it’s a kid, or a young adult who’s reading The Black Freighter- Pete: I mean, he’s smoking, so you would think he’s a young adult. Alex: Yeah. I don’t know. He’s seemingly having a doob. Is that how you pronounce it, Pete? Pete: No, that’s not a doob, that’s a cigarette. Alex: A doob? A blunt? He smoking a blunt? Pete: No, he’s not. Alex: Some ganja? Justin: I think he’s just smoking a cigarette. Alex: Some of that sweet green? Justin: I feel like these are the first characters that we can just like. Pete: Sweet green. Justin: We can just like these people, and watch them without having to figu…
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