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Upside Down Podcast — Christianity
Upside Down Podcast

Upside Down Podcast is an ecumenical podcast at the intersection of justice, spirituality, and culture. Join us for conversations about God’s Upside Down Kingdom. No topic is off limits. Upside Down Podcast is a collaborative Christian podcast co-founded by Kayla Craig and Lindsy Wallace. Some of our most popular guests have included Christena Cleveland, Dr. John Perkins, Shane Claiborne, Jo Saxton, Father Greg Boyle, Shannan Martin, and Dominique Gilliard. Popular episodes have featured the enneagram, gentrification, nonviolence, vocations and callings, immigration, and more. Upside Down is proud to be an ecumenical podcast, bridging the gap between Catholic and Protestant thought. Visit www.upsidedownpodcast.com or follow us on Instagram at @upsidedownpodcast.

Latest Episodes:

Season 6 | Episode 107: Persistence in Embracing Growth Jun 06, 2022

How do you honor the ways in which you’ve grown while having grace for your past self? Lindsy Wallace interviews Kayla Craig, the “Day One” of the Upside Down Podcast, along with fellow co-hosts Patricia Taylor and Alissa Molina for our final episode.

In this episode, we:

Hear from Kayla about how she sees God in a more vibrant, beautiful way since the podcast first started
Reflect on how different conversations and guests have expanded her language and helped her shape her questions
Discuss Kayla’s vocational discovery of deep spiritual writing that is accessible and maintains an eye for wonder and beauty
Hear about her current and upcoming projects, including two books and a new podcast
Talk about her hopes for five years from now: less burnout, more communal rest, and more tenderness
Learn about Kayla’s fascination with the Titanic

Join us for the very last episode of our little podcast that could! Let us know what one word would describe your journey with this community. Thank you so much for being a part of the conversation all these years.

News, Notes, and Links:

Follow Liturgies for Parents on Instagram, subscribe to the podcast, and grab Kayla’s book, To Light Their Way.
You can continue to support the Upside Down Podcast! Please visit us, where you can pledge a few dollars of monthly support to help keep this podcast accessible.
Learn more at Upside Down Podcast.
We’ll still be on Instagram. You can find us individually at @patricia_a_taylor, @kayla_craig, @from_here_sessions, and @lindsy.wallace.

Support the show

Season 6 | Episode 106: Persistence in Knowing Your Truest Self May 23, 2022

What happens when you step into your truest self? Kayla Craig interviews fellow Upside Down Podcast host Patricia (aka Patty) Taylor with Alissa Molina and Lindsy Wallace in our second-to-the-last episode.

In this episode, we:

Hear Patty describe the growth she has experienced since becoming a co-host and how it’s deepened her confidence in who God created her to be
Talk about how the podcast has provided a space to show up fully as yourself and what it’s like being with people who are not just willing but eager to be on the journey with you
Discuss her significant shift on social media to becoming an anti-racism educator with #somethoughtsfromyourblackfriend
Hear the wisdom she has to impart to those who resonate with her story
Acknowledge the sacrifices and losses that can come from walking out one’s convictions—and how it’s still worth it
Learn what episodes inspired her, affirmed her, and broadened her faith
Discover everyone’s hot takes on raw tomatoes

Join us for our last couple of episodes and hear insights and stories from our hosts that you don’t get from our regular episodes or social media.
News, Notes, and Links:

Want to listen to or revisit some of Patty’s favorite episodes? Check them out here: The Enneagram For Justice Seekers, The Gender & Ethnicity of God with Dr. Christena Cleveland, Native with Kaitlin Curtice, and Maternal Justice with Cessilye Smith.
You can continue to support the Upside Down Podcast! Please visit us, where you can pledge a few dollars of monthly support to help keep this podcast accessible.
Learn more at Upside Down Podcast.
We’re on Instagram, too. You can find us individually at @patricia_a_taylor, @kayla_craig, @from_here_sessions, and @lindsy.wallace.

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Season 6 | Episode 105: Persistence in Love in Society May 16, 2022

How does being in an ecumenical space expand and enrich our spiritual lives, within and beyond the walls of the church? Patricia Taylor, along with Kayla Craig and Lindsy Wallace, put Upside Down Podcast co-host Alissa Molina in the hot seat in the second of our final four episodes.

In this episode, we:

Hear from Alissa as she explains what the podcast has brought to her life and how it has helped her embrace Catholicism even more
Reflect on how the podcast brought up questions of the heart that forced her to see how she’s embodying faith beyond the space of worship
Discuss how past topics and guests revealed that there are so many places to experience God
Talk about the unique ecumenical space the podcast has offered over the years and the impact of it on her faith
Learn more about From Here, the nonprofit media organization that Alissa started to encourage the love of God, neighbor, and self

Join us for our remaining episodes to hear more from our hosts and learn about their journey over the years with the Upside Down Podcast. We’re so grateful to have you along.

News, Notes, and Links:

Be sure to check out From Here and all of its offerings.
You can continue to support the Upside Down Podcast! Please visit us, where you can pledge a few dollars of monthly support to help keep this podcast accessible.
Learn more at Upside Down Podcast.
We’re on Instagram, too. You can find us individually at @patricia_a_taylor, @kayla_craig, @from_here_sessions, and @lindsy.wallace.

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Season 6 | Episode 104: Persistence in the Gift of Expanse Apr 25, 2022

What happens when our view of God becomes more expansive, and what does it reveal to us about ourselves and others? Lindsy Wallace is the first Upside Down Podcast host in the hot seat, as she’s interviewed by fellow co-hosts Alissa Molina, Patricia Taylor, and Kayla Craig.

In this episode, we:

Talk about Lindsy’s personal and spiritual growth over the duration of the podcast, including connecting with a more expansive view of God
Reflect on finding the Divine at the end of ourselves, when so much has been stripped away
Hear about Lindsy leaning into her 7 wing (as an enneagram 8)
Discuss what it means to live all of it—the exciting and the terrifying—as she’s going through all the things
Learn what topics and people Lindsy wishes we had time to cover and interview
Talk about hope for the future (hint: it’s in the margins)

Join us for part one of four episodes in which we interview each host, sharing personal stories, reflections, and responses to an array of rapid-fire questions as we wind down The Upside Down Podcast.

News, Notes, and Links:

Check out Mary Graham on Instagram.
Have you ever listened to our interview with Father Gregory Boyle? Find it here.
You can continue to support the Upside Down Podcast! Please visit us, where you can pledge a few dollars of monthly support to help keep this podcast accessible.
Learn more at Upside Down Podcast.
We’re on Instagram, too. You can find us individually at @patricia_a_taylor, @kayla_craig, @from_here_sessions, and @lindsy.wallace.

Support the show

Season 6 | Episode 103: Persisting Beyond the Podcast Apr 12, 2022

We’ve got a special announcement to share. Co-hosts Kayla Craig, Lindsy Wallace, Alissa Molina, and Patricia Taylor come together to bring you an important update about the future of the Upside Down Podcast.

News, Notes, and Links:

You can continue to support the Upside Down Podcast! Please visit us, where you can pledge a few dollars of monthly support to help keep this podcast accessible.
Learn more at Upside Down Podcast.
We’re on Instagram, too. You can find us individually at @patricia_a_taylor, @kayla_craig, @from_here_sessions, and @lindsy.wallace.

Support the show

Season 6 | Episode 102: Persistence in Hope with Andre Henry Mar 22, 2022

What does hope mean to you, and how do you practice it? Lindsy Wallace talks with award-winning musician, writer, and activist Andre Henry about sustaining hope, translating it into action, and how art can help dismantle empires.

In this episode, we:

Talk about his newly released book, All the White Friends I Couldn’t Keep, and who he wrote it for
Go over Andre’s practice of always reading something about hope to remind himself of what’s possible
Ask what the role of art is in the work of justice
Talk about how artists can play so many roles in the movement: creative strategist, messenger, morale keeper, and so on
Discuss what it means for Andre to be an artivist
Consider the power of a committed minority working toward social progress
Talk about relationships he’s lost and what he’s gained in community, hope for change, and space for himself to truly be
Discuss the connection between hope and action, as well as the role has faith played in sustaining hope
Go over Andre’s hope regimen to stay healthy and mitigate despair

Join us in this rich conversation as we dive into how hope is more than optimism: it’s about imagining and creating a better world and writing history. Let us know what you think and what hopeful action you can take in your own communities.

News, Notes, and Links:

You can find Andre on the web, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and SoundCloud.
Order your copy of Andre’s book, All the White Friends I Couldn’t Keep, here.
Check out the book Andre mentioned, Hope in the Dark by Rebecca Solnit, here.
Learn more about the work of Erica Chenoweth, Ph.D. on civil resistance.
Support more conversations like this on Upside Down Podcast! Please visit us, where you can pledge a few dollars of monthly support to help us pay our bills and keep the conversations going.
Learn more at Upside Down Podcast.
We’re on Instagram, too. You can find us individually at @patricia_a_taylor, @kayla_craig, @from_here_sessions, and @lindsy.wallace.
Join the Upside Down Together listener group on Facebook!

Support the show

Season 6 | Episode 101: Persistence in Belonging with Cole Arthur Riley Mar 14, 2022

How do we know when we are in a space of true belonging, where our whole person can be welcome, present, and safe? Co-hosts Patricia Taylor, Kayla Craig, and Lindsy Wallace talk with writer, liturgist, and speaker Cole Arthur Riley about freedom and belonging—the good and the bad kind.

In this episode, we:

Discuss how Black Liturgies came to be and why Cole chose to initially remain anonymous
Share definitions of true belonging: spaces where we have the freedom to question, doubt, and change our minds without our status of belonging being at risk
Consider how our bodies know what belonging is as opposed to assimilation or conformity
Talk about the importance of solitude to better understand what belonging is for each of us
Point out how not all belonging is good and that there are consequences for both staying and leaving
Ask what our ancestors teach us about belonging and liberation from harmful spaces
Wonder what it looks like for there to be a space of belonging for everyone and how, perhaps, it starts with the least of these to shape that space

Join us in this conversation about finding belonging and the community that comes with it. We hope it gives you more language for your journey and imagination for what could be.

News, Notes, and Links:

Follow Cole and her work on her website, Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook, and be sure to grab a copy of her new book, This Here Flesh.
Add Toni Morrison’s Beloved to your bookshelf, if you haven’t already.
Support more conversations like this on Upside Down Podcast! Please visit us, where you can pledge a few dollars of monthly support to help us pay our bills and keep the conversations going.
Learn more at Upside Down Podcast.
We’re on Instagram, too. You can find us individually at @patricia_a_taylor, @kayla_craig, @from_here_sessions, and @lindsy.wallace.
Join the Upside Down Together listener group on Facebook!

Support the show

Season 6 | Episode 100: Persistence in God's Upside Down Kingdom (A Celebration & Special Cameos to Celebrate 100 Episodes!) Feb 21, 2022

It’s our 100th episode! Co-hosts Kayla Craig, Alissa Molina, Patricia Taylor, and Lindsy Wallace celebrate this milestone by looking back on where they’ve been, what they’ve learned, and what they hope for this little podcast that could and the community that’s grown from it.

In this episode, we:

Hear from listeners, former guests, and past hosts about their Upside Down Podcast memories and reflections
Talk about how the podcast came to be: to create a space for honest conversations about faith, justice, and culture
Remember how each of us got to a point where we needed these conversations and why
Discuss how caring for ourselves is a communal act and necessary for dismantling unjust systems
Recall pivotal moments with different podcast guests that stayed with us and even shaped our thinking
Celebrate the over five years of building and being a part of this incredible community

Thank you so much for being a part of this space, whether you’ve been a longtime listener or you’re just joining us. We’re honored you’re here.

News, Notes, and Links:

Support more conversations like this on Upside Down Podcast! Please visit us, where you can pledge a few dollars of monthly support to help us pay our bills and keep the conversations going.
Learn more at Upside Down Podcast.
We’re on Instagram, too. You can find us individually at @patricia_a_taylor, @kayla_craig, @from_here_sessions, and @lindsy.wallace.
Join the Upside Down Together listener group on Facebook!

Support the show

Season 6 | Episode 99: Persistence in Learning and Unlearning with Jonny Craig Feb 08, 2022

How do you break up with American Christianity and meaningfully make space for those in deconstruction? Co-hosts Alissa Molina, Patricia Taylor, and Kayla Craig talk with Jonny Craig, Kayla’s husband, our podcast editor, and the host of The Digital Community—an online space for sharing questions, doubts, and wonderings about God and culture.

In this episode, we:

Dive into what deconstruction means for many and the experience of realizing that the world we learned about in church is different from the actual world we inhabit
Talk about the creation of The Digital Community and how it’s for people who are looking to find spiritual fullness and safety beyond the walls of the church
Point out the effort to preserve power by criticizing deconstruction and vilifying people of color and women
Consider the lonesome, lonely journey of being in deconstruction and how much we need to connect with each other
Ask the question, “What is culture, and what is Christ?” when unpacking church, biblical translations, and so on
Talk about the need to divest from whiteness and sit under the leadership of historically marginalized groups

Join us for this conversation about finding and holding space for deconstructing and dismantling. Our hope is that you come away encouraged to persist in unlearning and learning, wherever you are.

News, Notes, and Links:

Check out The Digital Community’s website and on Instagram! Want to hear more? The Digital Community also has a podcast.
You can follow Jonny on Twitter here.
Support more conversations like this on Upside Down Podcast! Please visit us, where you can pledge a few dollars of monthly support to help us pay our bills and keep the conversations going.
Learn more at Upside Down Podcast.
We’re on Instagram, too. You can find us individually at @patricia_a_taylor, @kayla_craig, @from_here_sessions, and @lindsy.wallace.
Join the Upside Down Together listener group on Facebook!

Support the show

Season 6 | Episode 98: Persistence in Grace with Kirsten Powers Jan 24, 2022

Have you ever considered just how paradigm-shifting grace is? Co-hosts Kayla Craig and Lindsy Wallace have a conversation with New York Times bestselling author, USA Today columnist, and CNN Senior Political Analyst Kirsten Powers about her new book, Saving Grace: Speak Your Truth, Stay Centered, and Learn to Coexist with People Who Drive You Nuts. Together, they talk about what grace is—and what it isn’t—and what it can do.

In this episode, we:

Point out that practicing grace is far from passive or weak and that it’s more for ourselves than for those we extend it to
Go over what grace looks like as an enneagram 8
Talk about how trauma influences our relationship with the world and people
Discuss the trap of dualistic thinking and how it prevents us from empathizing and seeing possibility in others
Consider how learning from other cultures and belief systems that do not adopt dualistic thinking can help inform us about grace
Talk about the misappropriation and spiritual bypassing around grace in faith spaces
Dive into the humanizing effect of grace and how it can dismantle polarizing thinking

Join us for this conversation about the practice of grace and how it can move us toward wholeness and a more just society. We hope it encourages you to live into it more fully and deeply.

News, Notes, and Links:

Want to follow along with Kirsten? You can find her on Facebook, Instagram, and (sometimes) Twitter!
Be sure to check out her book, Saving Grace: Speak Your Truth, Stay Centered, and Learn to Coexist with People Who Drive You Nuts.
Support more conversations like this on Upside Down Podcast! Please visit us, where you can pledge a few dollars of monthly support to help us pay our bills and keep the conversations going.
Learn more at Upside Down Podcast.
We’re on Instagram, too. You can find us individually at @patricia_a_taylor, @kayla_craig, @from_here_sessions, and @lindsy.wallace.
Join the Upside Down Together listener group on Facebook!

Support the show

Season 6 | Episode 97: Persistence in Truth Telling with Jemar Tisby Jan 11, 2022

How do we talk with young people about fighting racism when we’re struggling with it ourselves? Co-hosts Patricia Taylor, Lindsy Wallace, and Kayla Craig talk with Dr. Jemar Tisby—the founder of The Witness, Inc., cohost of the Pass the Mic podcast, and a New York Times bestselling author—about the need to normalize having conversations about racial justice with the young people in our lives.

In this episode, we:

Discuss how Dr. Tisby’s new book, How to Fight Racism Young Reader’s Edition: A Guide to Standing Up for Racial Justice, came about
Talk about how you keep going in the pursuit of racial justice when attacks and accusations are thrown your way
Remember the example of others who persisted before us, like Fannie Lou Hamer
Point out that Christianity can inspire movements toward equity and justice, despite being used to justify the opposite
Talk about the importance of digging in with our families when it comes to racial justice and not letting headlines disciple our youth
Emphasize the need to continue educating ourselves about racism to interrupt generational ignorance
Ask how we can encourage youth to persist when they see grownups behaving badly

Join us for this inspiring discussion about fighting racism by raising up the next generation of justice seekers. We invite you to share your thoughts with us on Instagram and in our Facebook group!

News, Notes, and Links:

Follow along with Dr. Jemar Tisby on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, Substack, and be sure to pick up a copy of his new book, How to Fight Racism Young Reader’s Edition: A Guide to Standing Up for Racial Justice.
Support more conversations like this on Upside Down Podcast! Please visit us, where you can pledge a few dollars of monthly support to help us pay our bills and keep the conversations going.
Learn more at Upside Down Podcast.
We’re on Instagram, too. You can find us individually at @patricia_a_taylor, @kayla_craig, @from_here_sessions, and @lindsy.wallace.
Join the Upside Down Together listener group on Facebook!

Support the show

Season 6 | Episode 96: Persistence in Advent with Kat Armas Dec 07, 2021

Have you ever considered that Jesus is who he is because of a woman? Co-hosts Patricia Taylor and Kayla Craig talk with writer Kat Armas about this bigger, expansive, abuelita faith—one that persists, resists, and survives.

In this episode, we:

Discuss the influence of Kat’s Roman Catholic upbringing on having a tangible and embodied view of Mother Mary
Talk about Julian of Norwich’s image of Jesus as mother as well as Jesus being raised by a mother and being mothered himself
Marvel at how marginalized women can contain the most sacred and most holy
Define what abuelita theology means and how it’s birthed through our lived experiences
Go over the difference between persistence and resistance and where they can meet and overlap on the journey to justice
Ask who is in our spiritual genealogies and who are the theologians in our lives who wouldn’t be considered one by the dominant culture
Wonder what are the places where we haven’t been trained to experience God

Join us for this stirring conversation about what a lived theology looks like from the perspective of being a woman. We hope that it enriches your experience of the Advent season.

News, Notes, and Links:

Follow along with Kat through her website, on Instagram, on Twitter, and through her podcast. You pick up her beautiful book, Abuelita Faith, here.
Check out the Chasing Justice Masterclass that Kat co-led with Dr. Yolanda Pierce, “Rooted: Elders, Ancestors, and Collective Memory” here.
Support more conversations like this on Upside Down Podcast! Please visit us, where you can pledge a few dollars of monthly support to help us pay our bills and keep the conversations going.
Learn more at Upside Down Podcast.
We’re on Instagram, too. You can find us individually at @patricia_a_taylor, @kayla_craig, @from_here_sessions, and @lindsy.wallace.
Join the Upside Down Together listener group on Facebook!

Support the show

Season 6 | Episode 95: Persisting Through Grief with J.S. Park Nov 23, 2021

How do we navigate grief ourselves and with others? Co-hosts Patricia Taylor and Alissa Molina have a conversation with J.S. Park, who is a teaching pastor, writer, and interfaith hospital chaplain about persisting through grief and the ministry of presence.

In this episode, we:

Discuss the vulnerability of sharing our grief, how it can open us to being wounded or experiencing healing
Define the role of a chaplain and the experience of vicarious grief
Talk about how those in crisis can question whether or not they are allowed to grieve and where that shame of grief comes from
Cover what it means to bypass someone’s pain and our instinct to want to problem solve
Ask about the role of the church in navigating grief, pointing out how believers can often mishandle it through spiritual bypassing
Consider how we can push back on the need to “fix” a person’s grief immediately and the significance of just showing up instead
Talk about how letting grief in can offer us a fuller and more human experience, connecting us to those who went before us

Join us for this rich conversation about the experience of grief and how we can grieve well, for the sake of ourselves and others. We hope you find permission and safety to grieve, whatever you’re going through.

News, Notes, and Links:

Follow along with J.S. Park on Instagram and Twitter, and be sure to pick up a copy of his book.
Read this Instagram post from September 4 that we referenced.
Support more conversations like this on Upside Down Podcast! Please visit us, where you can pledge a few dollars of monthly support to help us pay our bills and keep the conversations going.
Learn more at Upside Down Podcast.
We’re on Instagram, too. You can find us individually at @patricia_a_taylor, @kayla_craig, @from_here_sessions, and @lindsy.wallace.
Join the Upside Down Together listener group on Facebook!

Support the show

Season 6 | Episode 94: Persisting in Boundaries Nov 08, 2021

How do you live an open-handed life while protecting your peace? Co-hosts Lindsy Wallace, Alissa Molina, and Kayla Craig explore the topic of boundaries: what they mean and why they’re crucial in our lives, relationships, and the spaces we exist in.

In this episode, we:

Define what boundaries are and how they can be designed for the mutual health and flourishing of ourselves and others around us
Consider how boundaries can show up in our lives to help us to rest, safety, and receiving what we need
Get honest about struggling with the guilt of setting good boundaries
Talk about how the idea of boundaries can carry negative connotations, especially in church settings in which we (especially women) are expected to sacrifice and pour out constantly
Discuss the necessity of unlearning the suppression of our needs in order to serve others and replace that with learning how to articulate our needs instead
Look at the example of Jesus, who often withdrew to lonely places
Push back against the cultural expectation that we have to do everything and show up a certain way to be valued
Ask what is ours to press into and what is the most loving thing to do for ourselves and other people

Join us as we dig into why we need boundaries and process out loud what this looks like in our lives. We hope this episode encourages you to check in with yourself. Feel free to share your thoughts on this episode with our community on social media!

News, Notes, and Links:

Brené Brown writes about three ways to set boundaries.
Check out this succinct explainer on boundaries from GoodTherapy.
We found this Healthline article about protecting your emotional space to be super helpful.
Support more conversations like this on Upside Down Podcast! Please visit us, where you can pledge a few dollars of monthly support to help us pay our bills and keep the conversations going.
Learn more at Upside Down Podcast.
We’re on Instagram, too. You can find us individually at @patricia_a_taylor, @kayla_craig, @from_here_sessions, and @lindsy.wallace.
Join the Upside Down Together listener group on Facebook!

Support the show

Season 6 | Episode 93: Persistence in Disability with Dr. Amy Kenny Oct 26, 2021

What’s missing when we fail to see the fullness of humanity in the disabled community? In this episode, co-hosts Lindsy Wallace and Kayla Craig talk with Dr. Amy Kenny about persisting in disability, healing versus fixing, and much more.
In this episode, we:

Reframe the concept of disability away from a hierarchy and instead look to how we think of the natural world
Talk about how being an image bearer is not stripped away when our bodies work in a different way
Go over what ableism is, how we engage in it without even realizing it, and how the prosperity gospel feeds into it
Discuss the disabled Christ, the erasure of disability in scripture, and how we miss out on the richness of scripture when we leave out marginalized communities
Talk about how we need to go beyond giving a seat at the table and pursue belonging, leading, and flourishing for the disabled community
Get a preview of her upcoming book, My Body Is Not a Prayer Request: Disability Justice in the Church, which deals with the difference between healing and curing as well as rethinking the way we understand disability in the Bible

Join us for this stirring conversation about how we typically view disability and what we might experience instead when we trade in that story for a truer, fuller one.

News, Notes, and Links:

Amy’s work has been featured in Roxane Gay's The Audacity, We are not shadows(an anthology), Sojourners, and theFreedom Road podcast.
Support more conversations like this on Upside Down Podcast! Please visit us, where you can pledge a few dollars of monthly support to help us pay our bills and keep the conversations going.
Learn more at Upside Down Podcast.
We’re on Instagram, too. You can find us individually at @patricia_a_taylor, @kayla_craig, @from_here_sessions, and @lindsy.wallace.
Join the Upside Down Together listener group on Facebook!

Support the show

Season 6 | Episode 92: Persisting in Curiosity with Shannon Evans Oct 12, 2021

What is our first inclination when we hear or see something that stretches the way we see things? Do we reach for fear? Do we shut down? Or do we remain curious, asking ourselves questions about our thinking? In this episode, Alissa Molina and Lindsy Wallace interview former co-host Shannon Evans about her recent book release, Rewilding Motherhood: Your Path to an Empowered Feminine Spirituality.
In this episode we:

Talk with Shannon about her approach in writing this book
Discuss the ways the book stretched Alissa and pushed her to practice a curiosity
Explore how curiosity often leads to greater depth and learning
Encourage a spirit of wonder, curiosity, and depth when considering motherhood
Remembered that kids are often great models of curiosity

“I wonder what would happen if we digested these questions as a form of instruction for our own spiritual lives? What if we took our theological views or our political and social views and held them up under the microscope of our children’s inquisitiveness? What might change, evolve or broaden if we began pelting previously unquestioned beliefs with questions for the first time?" (Rewilding Motherhood)

News, Notes, and Links:

Order your copy of Shannon’s phenomenal book here.
Make sure to follow her on Instagram and sign up for her newsletter.
Books that were mentioned in this episode: Theology of the Womb: Knowing God Through the Body of a Woman and Body of Stars.
Support more conversations like this on Upside Down Podcast! You can visit us here where you can learn more about this podcast or pledge a few dollars of monthly support to help us pay our bills and keep the conversations going.
And you can always find us on Instagram at @upsidedownpodcast.

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Season 6 | Episode 91: Persistence in Prayer Sep 28, 2021

What comes to mind when you think of prayer? In this episode, Patricia Taylor, Alissa Molina, and Lindsy Wallace interview co-host Kayla Craig about her upcoming book, To Light Their Way: A Collection of Prayers & Liturgies for Parents, and expanding our idea of prayer.

In this episode, we:

Ask Kayla where her belief that prayer is real and powerful comes from, especially in light of how much prayer gets casually thrown around
Consider how everything in our lives can be prayer
Recount how a difficult experience led Kayla to examine what prayer meant to her and the transformation that happened in her understanding of prayer
Discuss how she addresses tough and complex topics in a nuanced, inclusive way that makes space for all
Ask what does persistence in prayer through our weariness and our wait look like

Join us as we talk about Kayla’s journey of putting together her book. We can’t recommend it enough to anyone with children in their lives: caregivers, educators, and so on.

News, Notes, and Links:

Preorder a copy of To Light Their Way: A Collection of Prayers & Liturgies for Parents from Amazon or from Soul Book Nook, a Black-owned book store that’s local to Kayla and can ship anywhere.
Can’t wait to get your hands on your copy? Here’s a special preview.
Kayla has put together a collection of free gifts as a thank you to anyone who preorders the book before October 5. Get access to a printable collection of 12 breath prayer cards, a 5-day guided devotional for overwhelmed parents, and a downloadable art print for your home or office.
Are you on Goodreads? Be sure to add Kayla’s book to your lists and leave a review.
Follow Liturgies for Parents and Kayla on Instagram, and check out Kayla’s website here.
We love Cole Arthur Riley’s prayers at Black Liturgies.
Support more conversations like this on Upside Down Podcast! Please visit us, where you can pledge a few dollars of monthly support to help us pay our bills and keep the conversations going.
Learn more at Upside Down Podcast.
We’re on Instagram, too. You can find us individually at @patricia_a_taylor, @kayla_craig, @from_here_sessions, and @lindsy.wallace.
Join the Upside Down Together listener group on Facebook!

Support the show

Season 6 | Episode 90: Nevertheless, We Persisted Sep 14, 2021

What does it mean to persist these days, and what do we desire to persist toward? Co-hosts Lindy Wallace, Kayla Craig, Alissa Molina, and Patricia Taylor kick off our sixth season with a conversation about the long game of persistence and why we’re still here.

In this episode, we:

Talk about why we’re still showing up on this “little podcast that could”
Dig into the meaning of persistence: how it’s both opposing something and imagining how it could be better
Discuss how the definition of persisting has been twisted and weaponized in toxic ways that are detrimental to our health and well-being
Ask ourselves the question, “What are we persisting toward?” What is the endgame we are reaching for?
Dive into how persistence intersects with rest, how both are acts of resistance, and the invitation to join the long line of those who have resisted before us
Consider how persisting can be an act of self-discovery, empowering us to get to the truer version of ourselves by identifying what we say yes or no to
Give you a bit of a teaser about this season’s offerings

Join us as we launch Season 6 with the theme of persistence. Our hope is that you come away inspired to go with intention and take heart that to persist is to imagine something beautifully just and whole for everyone.

News, Notes, and Links:

Check out Iris Chen of Untigering on Instagram.
Support more conversations like this on Upside Down Podcast! Please visit us, where you can pledge a few dollars of monthly support to help us pay our bills and keep the conversations going.
Learn more at Upside Down Podcast.
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Season 5 | Episode 89: The Necessity of Rest May 25, 2021

What brings you rest? Is it something that’s easy for you to embrace, or do you find yourself struggling with it? Co-hosts Kayla Craig, Alissa Molina, and Patricia Taylor talk about the need for rest—to nourish ourselves and to love one another—in our final episode of the season.

In this episode, we:

Discuss how rest can be a struggle when it is often considered selfish or something to be earned instead of an innate need
Acknowledge that rest is an act of resistance against grind culture and even the Western church’s culture of production and productivity
Ask each other what it takes to be able to say we are worthy of rest and to believe it
Consider the interconnectedness of rest: when we fill ourselves up through our rest, that frees us and creates margin to give so that others may experience rest
Talk about what’s at stake when we don’t rest and how our refusal to rest is a refusal to rest in God
Wonder what it looks like for us to take cues from our bodies and the physical life around us and grow in awareness of those invitations to rest

Join us as we conclude our fifth season with this conversation about the necessity of rest. We hope it speaks to you and encourages you to regard this act as loving and essential to the well-being of yourself and those around you.

News, Notes, and Links:

Savoring this quote: “God's creation is a life-giving inhale for all of us, and Sabbath is the exhale.” ― Shelly Miller, Rhythms of Rest: Finding the Spirit of Sabbath in a Busy World
And this one, also from Shelly Miller: “Extravagant wastefulness in time might prove the most productive thing you choose for yourself.”
Add “‘All of Your Ways Are Peace” by The Porter’s Gate to your playlist and soak it in.
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Season 5 | Episode 88: The Necessity of Connection May 11, 2021

How do you begin to reconnect with your community after over a year of wading through the collective heaviness of a global pandemic? Co-hosts Lindsy Wallace, Alissa Molina, and Kayla Craig gather to connect and reflect on where we are and where we’ve been.

In this episode, we:

Acknowledge the importance and exhaustion of connecting and how we have to relearn how to connect with no road map for these times
Check in with each other: how are we really doing after over a year of living through the pandemic (on top of the pandemic of white supremacy, the effects of climate change, and so on)?
Ask each other what we are lamenting and grieving, as well as what practices and rhythms have been helpful throughout this time
Discuss what we are processing: the hard reset some of us have experienced in the wake of the pandemic, stories and voices that have been amplified, and more
Share who we are paying more attention to and whose voices we are pruning
Talk about what is giving us hope and the growth that we’re seeing in the cracks in the sidewalks

Join us for this honest conversation as we do some processing of the past year together. Our hope is that as we model connection together, you’ll be encouraged to pursue connection in your own life as well.

News, Notes, and Links:

Follow Black Liturgies by Cole Arthur Riley on Instagram and soak in her prophetic words.
Add Undrowned By Alexis Pauline Gumbs to your summer reading list.
Check out Here for It: Or, How to Save Your Soul in America; Essays By R. Eric Thomas.
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Season 5 | Episode 87: The Necessity of Accountability with Tiffany Bluhm Apr 27, 2021

“Silence is not spiritual, and action is not optional.” Author, speaker, and podcast host Tiffany Bluhm talks with host Patricia Taylor about accountability and abuse—particularly in faith spaces—and the hard questions we must ask.

TW: This episode covers spiritual abuse, though it does not go into specific details. Still, we want to allow listeners whose stories may include abuse to be aware of what’s coming.

In this episode, we:

Discuss Tiffany’s latest book, Prey Tell: Why We Silence Women Who Tell the Truth and How Everyone Can Speak Up
Talk about how women are expected to “play by the rules” set by culture, society, and the church
Cover the gaslighting that happens when speaking truth, the weaponization of scripture, and the insulation of men in power
Ask why abuse happens so often in faith spaces and what elements allow for this
Consider how many of us don’t want to believe that we can offer our trust to an untrustworthy leader, leading to silence and complicity
Discuss the systemic nature of abuse, what it takes to dismantle those systems, and the cost of speaking up and speaking out
Talk about how Jesus addressed the powerful and their abuse of authority while leveling hierarchies and ushering in equity

Join us for this discussion about taking an honest look at abuse and what it takes to pursue love as justice. We invite you to lean into the liberating and healing ways of Jesus as we expand and challenge the familiar if it’s not leading us closer to love.

News, Notes, and Links:

Check out Tiffany’s website and follow her on Instagram.
Have you grabbed your copy of “Prey Tell” yet? Find it here!
This post about spiritual abuse from Reclaiming My Theology.
An encouragement from K.J. Ramsey, as well as this wisdom.
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Season 5 | Episode 86: The Necessity of (Kingdom) Economics Apr 13, 2021

Is there truly enough for everyone, and do we really believe there is abundance? Hosts Alissa Molina, Patricia Taylor, Kayla Craig, and Lindsy Wallace discuss what it means to live out of a posture of abundance in a world that has conditioned us to believe in scarcity.

In this episode, we:

Talk about how we seem to embrace the concept of spiritual abundance yet struggle with the idea of abundance of what we have in this world
Discuss how the mindset of scarcity is incompatible with what we profess to believe and how the economic system of our culture thrives on a scarcity
Dive into how we shift what we believe “enough” means and how much we need
Consider whether or not our economic system is an idol and a place from which we draw our sense of security
Cover the impact that grind culture, meritocracy, and white supremacy have on our relationships, time, priorities, and more

Join us for this thought-provoking conversation about kingdom economics. We hope that it catalyzes honest conversations with your community related to stewardship and taking a posture of abundance together.

News, Notes, and Links:

Lindsy quoted a snippet from The Biblical Vision of Sabbath Economics by Ched Myers.
Bookmark this poem by Jessica Faith Kantrowitz.
Add Can't Even: How Millennials Became the Burnout Generation by Anne Helen Petersen to your reading list.
We’re big fans of Money and Possessions by Walter Brueggemann.
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Season 5 | Episode 85: The Necessity of Liberation with Danté Stewart Mar 23, 2021

What does a liberated faith look like? Writer and speaker Danté Stewart talks with co-hosts Patricia Taylor and Lindsy Wallace about the meaning of liberation and how it impacts how we view God, ourselves, and the world.

In this episode, we:

Reflect on the complex, beautiful, and terrible journey of liberation, the changes we make along the way, and how we look at the world within ourselves and the world around us
Discuss the influence of writer and activist James Baldwin and the invitation from Baldwin to wrestle deeply and truthfully
Talk about the influence of Black womanist theologians and how they shape Danté’s understanding of liberation
Go in depth about how liberation asks us to look at the story of Jesus and see the ways in which he invites us into a better story of God and ourselves than the stories many of us are offered
Discuss the symbols, myths, and metaphors about God that we have inherited, and how those have oftentimes been incredibly limited

Join us for this deep conversation with Danté about the significance of the word liberation and how it gives us the ability to narrate our story and have eyes to see an enlarged view of the world.

News, Notes, and Links:

Keep up with Danté’s work by checking out his website, following him on Instagram, and following him on Twitter. You can find the Instagram post we referenced here.
The Fire Next Time by James Baldwin is essential reading.
We can’t wait to read World of Wonders: In Praise of Fireflies, Whale Sharks, and Other Astonishments by Aimee Nezhukumatathil.
Add these books to the stack: Critical Terms for Religious Studies by Mark C. Taylor, In Search of Our Mothers’ Garden by Alice Walker, and Said I Wasn’t Gonna Tell Nobody: The Making of a Black Theologian by James Cone.
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Season 5 | Episode 84: The Necessity of Growth with Justin McRoberts Mar 09, 2021

How do you know when you’ve grown, and how does that growth show up in other parts of your life? Speaker, author, musician, curator, and previous podcast guest Justin McRoberts talks with co-hosts Kayla Craig and Patricia Taylor about what growth does in us in our faith, our relationships, and the risks we must take.

In this episode, we:

Chat about Justin’s upcoming book, It Is What You Make of It
Reflect on the act of discernment and the sense of possibility the process can give us
Challenge the idea of certainty and “getting it right” when it comes to discernment and how that way of thinking impacts our view of God
Discuss the freedom to explore new things that comes with a deep sense of safety
Talk about the role of mentors, coaches, and community as well as the significance of having people invest in your growth for the long haul
Ask what our measurement for success is and how we even define it
Discuss storytelling and the power it has to invite others to enter into something that’s different or new to them

Join us as we talk with Justin about deconstruction, reconstruction, and the process of evolving.

News, Notes, and Links:

Looking for more from Justin McRoberts? Find him on Instagram and check out his podcast, @ Sea with Justin McRoberts. You can also pre-order his newest book, It Is What You Make of It, which is out in June.
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Season Five | Episode 83: The Necessity of Lent Feb 23, 2021

What would it look like if we experienced the Lenten season as a time in which we find God in all things, including the suffering? Writer Cameron Bellm and co-host Alissa Molina have a rich conversation about “the ministry of beautiful hard” and how Lent is an invitation for all of us.

In this episode, we:

Talk about the act of joining and seeking to identify with Christ during the Lenten season
Consider Lent as a sacred invitation to draw near and to enter into the suffering we’re already experiencing with contemplation
Dispel the idea that repentance is about shame
Discuss how Lent is not an olympic sport, and the way we each engage it is unique to what brings us close to God
Talk about Cameron’s partnership with Lauren of Brick House in the City to create a devotional that helps folks walk this Lenten path with a diverse group of saints
Ponder the metaphor of the lotus flower: something beautiful that blooms out of a challenging place

Join us as we have a conversation about walking through Lent from the posture of paying attention to what draws us near to God and deeper into the mystery.

News, Notes, and Links:

Journey through Lent with No Unlikely Saints – A Lenten Pilgrimage With Sacred Company, ℅ Brick House in the City.
We’ll be camping out at this quote from this article for awhile: “The lotus flower blooms most beautifully from the deepest and thickest mud.”
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Season 5 | Episode 82: The Necessity of Dreaming Feb 09, 2021

Why is dreaming so significant, and how do you dream freely? Inspired by National Youth Poet Laureate Amanda Gorman’s beautiful inauguration poem, co-hosts Patricia Taylor, Kayla Craig, Lindsy Wallace, and Alissa Molina discuss the necessity of dreaming and having prophetic imagination.

In this episode, we:

Talk about the boundlessness of dreaming and how it gives us vision for possibilities
Ask how creativity relates to dreaming
Consider our roles as co-creators with a creator God
Ask how we come to lose our imagination and wonder what we are missing out on when that happens
Talk about the need for a community to show us that which we can’t see on our own and who can enter into dreaming with us
Explore what it means to have the freedom and openness to dream

Join us as we discuss what inspires us to dream, how those around us can be a part of it, what can keep us from dreaming, and the need for prophetic imagination.

News, Notes, and Links:

Grab a copy of The Hill We Climb by Amanda Gorman and read a transcript of her inauguration poem here.
Check out artist Morgan Harper Nichols on Instagram!
We can’t recommend The Prophetic Imagination by Walter Brueggemann enough.
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Season 5 | Episode 81: The Necessity of Reclaiming Theology with Brandi Miller Jan 26, 2021

What does it mean to "reclaim theology?" And why might that be necessary? Lindsy Wallace hosts this episode with co-host Patricia Taylor, and guest Brandi Miller joins to talk about why it's important for Christians to take theology back from ideas and systems that oppress.
Brandi Miller is the host of the Reclaiming My Theologypodcast and community that explores how the attributes of oppressive ideologies have infiltrated how we see ourselves, each other, and God. Brandi has spent the better part of the last decade as a writer and campus minister.

She largely spends her time writing at the intersection of faith, race, and politics, plays music and writes with Common Hymnal, and develops justice programs for Christian college students.

In this episode, we:

Define "epistemology"
Talk about the individual work of reconciling the difference between deconstructing faith when there's nothing left vs. reclaiming theology
Ask how we can become communities that have hard conversations
Explore how our upbringings shape the way we view God
Ask, "Who does this benefit?"
Explore the power of Jesus' parables

Join us as we consider how to hold on to what we know to be true about the God of all things - and learn to name what has been shaped by cultural ideas, mores, and values.

News, Notes, and Links:

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Season 5 | Episode 80: The Necessity of Hope: Fighting Despair & Stubbornly Clinging to Hope in 2021 Jan 11, 2021

In this first episode of 2021, we continue with our focus on the necessities. As we begin this new year, it seems one of the most hard fought necessities we are grasping for is that of Hope. Alissa hosts the episode, with Kayla, Lindsy and Patty joining for a conversation on what it means to fight through despair and work for a discipline of hope.
In this episode, we:

Define what the word hope means to us
Talk about the stubborn nature of hope
Flesh out Hebrews 11:1
Consider what hope as action looks like
Think about how our faith as Christians impacts our ability to hope.
Discuss an amazing faucet/well analogy that Kayla's husband Jonny created for a sermon
Share the people that give us hope and the things that give us hope
Talk about ways we each individually practice hope
Remember the ultimate hope of God’s Kingdom on Earth as is in Heaven

Join us as we consider how to be a people of hope, firm in our belief in a God who loves us and all of humanity.

Recommended reading & resources:

Jonny Craig’s Sermon on Hope for The Bridge
Romans 12:12
Hebrews 11:1
Pope Francis’ Book Let Us Dream: The Path to a Better Future
The Discipline of Hope Article

Quotes:

“Hope is the audacity to believe and fight for God’s dream of Shalom in the world.” - Lindsy Wallace
“Celtic spirituality speaks of a term called ‘thin places” A place where the boundary between earth and heaven is especially thin, so much so, you can feel it.The distance between Heaven and earth collapses and we’re able to catch a glimpse of the divine. The veil between our earthly home and eternal home becomes thin, almost translucent.” -Patty Breene (@amoderngrace on Instagram)

News, Notes, and Links:

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Season 5 | Bonus Episode: The Necessity of Grieving 2020 Dec 28, 2020

Surprise! Bonus episode!
In this bonus episode of Upside Down Podcast co-host Lindsy Wallace shares why grieving 2020 is necessary, what happens in our bodies when we don't grieve, ideas for how to do so in creative and embodied ways, and challenges us with the question, What is the meaning we will make of 2020?
News, Notes, and Links:

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Season 5 | Episode 79: The Necessity of Healing with Dr. Monique Gadson Dec 08, 2020

In this final episode before the Christmas break, we take some time to point our weary hearts toward our collective necessity for healing. To help us delve deeper into this topic, Kayla Craig and Patty Taylor welcome Dr. Monique Gadson. Dr. Monique is a Licensed Professional Counselor with over 16 years of counseling, consulting, and program development experience. Dr. Monique is a consulting therapist to churches and organizations in mental health matters. She holds a doctorate in marriage and family therapy, a master’s in Christian psychological studies, a master’s in clinician mental health counseling.

In this episode, we:

Consider assessing the wounds around us and addressing the most critical wounds first
Talk about healing within the Church and learn about what Dr. Gadson calls the Church’s “autoimmune response”
Flesh out the critical importance of grieving in the healing process.
Acknowledge our tendency to try to get to the “overcoming” before tending to the “oppression”
Embrace the analogy Dr. Gadson gives about taking care of a sink of one or two dishes before the sink is overflowing as it relates to our own healing.
Remember that some wounds take much longer to heal than others and that healing is a process

Join us as we consider how to begin the process of healing our own wounds, the wounds in our churches and the wounds in our communities and country.

Recommended reading & resources:

News, Notes, and Links:

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Season 5 | Episode 78: The Necessity of Advent: Can The Weary World Still Rejoice? Nov 24, 2020

In this episode on the Necessity of Advent, Alissa Molina hosts and is joined by Kayla Craig, Lindsy Wallace and Patty Taylor to discuss Advent as the season quickly approaches. They bring tired and weary hearts, minds, and bodies to flesh out:

Awe as it relates to the Word becoming Flesh
The reminder that God is near us even if sometimes he feels far
The reminder of the tenderness of God that is near the broken
The vulnerability of God becoming human
The danger in commodifying Jesus
Thinking about how we can be intentional in our preparation for the birth of Jesus
Exploring Advent as the time of Now and Not Yet
Preparing for advent in asking: where has God been faithful this year, where have I lamented this year, where are we practicing joyful hope.

Recommended Reading and Resources

John 1:14 "And the Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us,and we saw his glory, the glory as of the Father’s only Son, full of grace and truth."
Sharifa Stevens on Twitter (https://twitter.com/sharifawrites)
Kat Armas on Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/kat_armas/)
https://www.christianity.com/christian-life/christmas/what-is-advent.html

Quotes

"We think Jesus came in flesh to teach us to about divinity but in reality, Jesus came to teach us how to be man." -- Richard Rohr
"God didn’t just tell us to love our neighbors, he became one." -- Kat Armas
“Advent symbolizes the present situation of the church in these “last days” (Acts 2:17, Hebrews 1:2), as God’s people wait for the return of Christ in glory to consummate his eternal kingdom. The church is in a similar situation to Israel at the end of the Old Testament: in exile, waiting and hoping in prayerful expectation for the coming of the Messiah. Israel looked back to God’s past gracious actions on their behalf in leading them out of Egypt in the Exodus, and on this basis, they called for God once again to act for them. In the same way, the church, during Advent, looks back upon Christ’s coming in celebration while at the same time looking forward in eager anticipation to the coming of Christ’s kingdom when he returns for his people.”

News, Notes, and Links:

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We’re on Instagram too. (https://www.instagram.com/upsidedownpodcast/)

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Season 5 | Episode 77: The Necessity of Witness with Drew. G.I. Hart Nov 09, 2020

What does it mean for the church to be a witness? What do our 21st-century sensibilities miss about Jesus’ 1st-century sociopolitical relevance? In this episode of Upside Down Podcast, Lindsy Wallace and Patricia Taylor process a conversation with author and professor Drew G.I. Hart about the revolutionary life of Jesus and the ways in which we can usher in his peace for our world.

In this episode, we:

Consider what it looks like to follow after the way of Jesus in 2020
Lean into the local church as community in the building and in the streets
Widen the experience of Jesus to a political Jesus
Are challenged to see peace as a disruptor to violence
Lean into the power of the embodied, costly, revolutionary love of Jesus

Join us as Drew walks us through his experience of the things that make for peace. Let us set aside our 21st Century sensibilities so we may enter into Jesus’ first century. May we hold his socio-political relevance to the light of day and let it shine through in such a way we put his revolutionary teachings to make a Beloved community today.

Recommended reading & resources:

Quotes:

“The call of Jesus is really quite simple, despite how complicated we have made it by obfuscating that basic Christian vocation. Follow after the way of Jesus.”

News, Notes, and Links:

Support more conversations like this on Upside Down Podcast! Please visit us, where you can pledge a few dollars of monthly support to help us pay our bills and keep the conversations going.
Learn more at Upside Down Podcast.
We’re on Instagram, too.
Join the Upside Down Together listener group on Facebook!

Upside Down Podcast brings together women (and sometimes a few good men) for unscripted ecumenical conversations about God's upside-down kingdom. We're four women from across the US spanning age, denomination, race, culture, and background. We care deeply about the love of God and neighbor and explore themes of the intersections of faith and justice, with a bit of prophetic imagination. We come together as ordinary humans modeling tough conversations so you can be inspired to continue these conversations offline with your local community. In a time when many Christians are deconstructing their faith, we hope to be a welcoming space where people can be curious, learn, connect, and grow into the beloved community.

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Season 5 | Episode 76: The Necessity of Community: Searching for Your People & Place in 2020 Oct 27, 2020

What is the importance of community? Patricia Taylor hosts and is joined by Kayla Craig, Lindsy Wallace and Alissa Molina for this episode of examining what community is today. Pull up a seat at our table in the wilderness as we ask each other how community in the time of Jesus can influence an upside-down life today.

In this episode, we:

Assess the impact of the pandemic on local and virtual communities
Weigh our desire for community against our dream of it
Look at how intimate community should be when it’s toxic
Wonder if it’s possible to return to a community that has inflicted pain
Envision a thriving community that laments and celebrates together
Get honest about an expectation of community in our lives

Join us as we unpack how to intentionally find a community that is from an abundant God and explore with us how to engage in and foster such an environment. May we enter each space with more grace and more love and make space for those who may be searching for their people and their place too.

Recommended reading & resources:

Life Together, Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Lindsy Wallace on Instagram
Acts 2:42-47 ESV And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers. And awe came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were being done through the apostles. And all who believed were together and had all things in common. And they were selling their possessions and belongings and distributing the proceeds to all, as any had need. And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts, praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.
Hebrews 10:24-25 ESV And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.
Matthew 10:14 ESV And if anyone will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet when you leave that house or town.

Quotes:

“The person who loves their dream of community will destroy community, but the person who loves those around them will create community.” Dietrich Bonhoeffer
“We can disagree and still love each other unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist.” James Baldwin
"The greatness of a community is most accurately measured by the compassionate actions of its members... a heart of grace and a soul generated by love." Coretta Scott King

News, Notes, and Links:

Support more conversations like this on Upside Down Podcast! Please visit us, where you can pledge a few dollars of monthly support to help us pay our bills and keep the conversations going.
Learn more at Upside Down Podcast.
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Season 5 | Episode 75: The Necessity of Voting with Lisa Sharon Harper Oct 13, 2020

Why is it necessary to vote with our neighbors in mind? Lisa Sharon Harper joins all of the Upside Down Podcast co-hosts for this episode. Lisa is the author of The Very Good Gospel and founder and president of FreedomRoad.us, a consulting group dedicated to shrinking the narrative gap in our nation by designing forums and experiences that bring common understanding, common commitment, and common action. She is a prolific speaker, writer, and activist and a prophetic voice for our time.

In this episode, we:

Jump right in to ask Lisa what voting means to her
Unpack how voting is an exercise in dominion that serves and protects
Open the one-issue party discussion and learn history and impacts of current, controversial Supreme Court rulings
Hear why “clarity is necessary” for Lisa in this election
Consider how Jesus ‘voted’ with the most marginalized in mind

Join us as we consider what is at stake with this election. May we be followers of Jesus, under the rule of God, and vote for the benefit of all humanity created in the image of God.

Recommended reading & resources:

Upside Down Podcast brings together women (and sometimes a few good men) for unscripted ecumenical conversations about God's upside-down kingdom. We're four women from across the US spanning age, denomination, race, culture, and background. We care deeply about the love of God and neighbor and explore themes of the intersections of faith and justice, with a bit of prophetic imagination. We come together as ordinary humans modeling tough conversations so you can be inspired to continue these conversations offline with your local community. In a time when many Christians are deconstructing their faith, we hope to be a welcoming space where people can be curious, learn, connect, and grow into the beloved community.

News, Notes, and Links:

Support more conversations like this on Upside Down Podcast! Please visit us, where you can pledge a few dollars of monthly support to help us pay our bills and keep the conversations going.
Learn more at Upside Down Podcast.
We’re on Instagram, too.
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Season 5 | Episode 74: The Necessity of Beauty with Ike Ndolo, Musician & Recording Artist with Common Hymnal Sep 22, 2020

We know that God created everything that is Good, True and Beautiful. How in times like these, with so much that feels so heavy, hurtful and even downright ugly, can we find what is beautiful and in turn find the Divine?

Growing up in Missouri as the son of Nigerian immigrants, the life of Ike Ndolo is a woven tapestry of experiences: Hymns and Bob Marley, injustice and mercy, discrimination and acceptance. As a result, Ike has become a well-tested navigator of the human experience. He aims to share and guide you through stories that inform and even reorient your perspective.

Ike Ndolo released three singles in the summer of 2018, “Guiding Light,” “Your Table” & “Follow Me,” all of which are featured on his third LP, “Shine,” released on September 17th, 2018. Recorded at Gnome Studios in Nashville, TN in conjunction with Hardspeak Records.

In this episode, we:

Consider why beauty is necessary, especially now
Take a stroll down Ike’s street to appreciate beauty
Cancel guilt associated with tapping out on occasion and running to beauty
Walk Ike’s path of his media shifting from artistry to anti-racism work
Thank Ike for bringing Black female voices to his media and influence

Join us as we walk towards beauty as resistance. May we trust that we are able to engage in partnership with believers to do today’s justice work.

Recommended reading & resources:

Upside Down Podcast brings together women (and sometimes a few good men) for unscripted ecumenical conversations about God's upside-down kingdom. We're four women from across the US spanning age, denomination, race, culture, and background. We care deeply about the love of God and neighbor and explore themes of the intersections of faith and justice, with a bit of prophetic imagination. We come together as ordinary humans modeling tough conversations so you can be inspired to continue these conversations offline with your local community. In a time when many Christians are deconstructing their faith, we hope to be a welcoming space where people can be curious, learn, connect, and grow into the beloved community.

News, Notes, and Links:

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Season 5 | Episode 73: The Necessity of Life: What does it mean to be for life in 2020? Sep 07, 2020

What does it mean to be for life in 2020? Join us for Season 5 with the hosts you know, founders Kayla Craig and Lindsy Wallace, veteran Alissa Molina, and our newest voice, Patricia Taylor to kick off a season of exploring what is needed in spirituality, justice, culture, and community.
In this episode, we:

Evaluate ‘pro-life’ as Jesus intended for abundant life in 2020
Grieve what happens to the message and witness of Jesus when professing followers of God are unwilling to lay down life and liberties
Seek to follow Jesus in working for a “more and better life than they ever dreamed of”
Discuss what it means to vote for a ‘pro-life’ President
Share practical ways we can honor life in our communities

Join us as we thoughtfully explore what it means to champion an abundant life in Christ. May we model Jesus in the way we value the Imago Dei in us all.
Recommended reading & resources:

John 10:10
- I came so they can have real and eternal life, more and better life than they ever dreamed of. - The Message
- I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full. - NIV
- I came that they may have life and have it abundantly. - ESV
US Birthrates Fall to Record Low, Wall Street Journal
US Historical Abortion Statistics
Brick House in the CIty
Casey Chappell on Instagram

Upside Down Podcast brings together women (and sometimes a few good men) for unscripted ecumenical conversations about God's upside-down kingdom. We're four women from across the US spanning age, denomination, race, culture, and background. We care deeply about the love of God and neighbor and explore themes of the intersections of faith and justice, with a bit of prophetic imagination. We come together as ordinary humans modeling tough conversations so you can be inspired to continue these conversations offline with your local community. In a time when many Christians are deconstructing their faith, we hope to be a welcoming space where people can be curious, learn, connect, and grow into the beloved community.
News, Notes, and Links:

Support more conversations like this on Upside Down Podcast! Please visit us, where you can pledge a few dollars of monthly support to help us pay our bills and keep the conversations going.
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Season 4 | Episode 72 - We’re Not Going Back to Normal: Who Will We Be When This is Over? May 26, 2020

This global pandemic has only magnified the fractures in our systems -- and even in our own hearts. In our final episode of season four, we’re asking this question: How do we not go back to the way things were before COVID-19? In our country, in our world, in our neighborhoods, in our families...in our own hearts? We don’t want to go back to normal. How can we pursue God’s Upside Down Kingdom...even now? Especially now?

In this episode, we:

Share what life looks like, where we are
Examine productivity as Worth within the Christian culture
Look at rest as resistance
Ask how can we begin to live like we belong to each other
Talk about who we have been learning from during the pandemic

Join us as we work to be people who turn our gaze outward. May we live in the “and both” where we build our connection to Jesus and work for justice in a world in desperate need of love.

Recommended reading & resources:

News, Notes, and Links:

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Episode 71: Native with Kaitlin Curtice May 11, 2020

Kaitlin Curtice joins Lindsy and Kayla with a conversation that is both a gentle challenge and a balm of encouragement. Kaitlin is a citizen of the Potawatomi Nation, a Christian, and a poet who speaks on faith and justice within the church as it relates to Indigenous peoples. Her newest book, Native: Identity, Belonging, and Rediscovering God came out just last week.

In this episode, we:

Ask how justice feels, even when it’s not labeled Christian
Hold up the communion table as a political space
Unpack how to listen to voices who have been silenced
Lean into ambiguity and how to listen to God
Honor the people who are doing the work of the church

Kaitlin is a monthly columnist for Sojourners and her work has been featured on OnBeing, Religion News Service, CBS, USA Today, and The New Yorker.

Join us as we work to be people who hold space for truth-telling. May we be ever aware of our inner-child so we can lean into asking questions without receiving answers immediately. Maybe then, we are able to be full of hope.

Recommended reading & resources:

News, Notes, and Links:

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Episode 70: Be the Bridge with Latasha Morrison Apr 27, 2020

Join host Kayla Craig with co-host Alissa Molina as they welcome Latasha Morrison. Tasha is a speaker, author, reconciler, bridge-builder, and leader, committed to educating people on cultural intelligence and racial literacy. She founded Be the Bridge in 2016 to encourage racial reconciliation among all ethnicities, to promote racial unity in America, and to equip others to do the same.

Tasha’s book, Be the Bridge, is a power-packed guide that helps readers deepen their understanding of historical factors and present realities, equipping them to participate in the ongoing dialogue and to serve as catalysts for righteousness, justice, healing, transformation, and reconciliation.

In this episode, we:

Dive into "racial reconciliation" through the lens of faith
Hold up the history of generational roles and responsibilities for reconciliation
Look at the evolution of systems and how people play into the systems
Talk about “both/and” of how communities must come together
Pass the mantel to the next generation

Join us as we began to be educated into cultural responsibility. May we lean into the collective faith and humanity to build the bridge for reconciliation in our communities and systems.

Recommended reading & resources:

News, Notes, and Links:

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Episode 69 - Maternal Justice with Cessilye Smith Apr 13, 2020

It’s Black Maternal Health Week in America. Join host Alissa Molina and co-host Lindsy Wallace as we no longer only follow along with the work of Cessilye Smith, but have the opportunity to sit and learn from her. Her work in the areas of maternal health and justice are powerful. As she works to help drop the staggering numbers of black women who die in childbirth, we invite her in to teach us.

Cessilye is a racial and maternal justice activist committed to tearing down walls of oppression and division in order to build bridges that lead to solution-based practices.

Cessilye's passion for black women and for her community is what compelled her to co-found Abide Women's Health Services, an organization that exists to improve birth outcomes in communities with the lowest quality of care. Executive Director, anti-racist and maternal justice activist, speaker and educator are just a few of the many hats she wears.

In this episode, we:

Hold the COVID-19 pandemic to the light of how we desire humanity to be
Sit with Cessilye’s background and learning to lament
Consider stress and racism as Biological Weathering
Unpack black women leadership against white privilege and followership
Dive into self-care as an act of resistance

Join us as we challenge ourselves to live 2020 as the year of the changed; by our votes of politics, money, and positions held. May we be people who fight to maintain hope to actively counter injustice.

Recommended reading & resources:

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Episode 68: Church Beyond Walls: Loving Our Neighbor in Times of COVID-19 with Rev. Anna Woofenden Mar 17, 2020

Kayla Craig, along with Gina Ciliberto, welcomes Reverend Anna Woofenden as she offers a new direction for planting churches, literally. She started a church in an empty lot in Los Angeles by planting a community garden. In her new book, This Is God’s Table: Finding Church Beyond the Walls, Anna shares the story of what happened when she gardened, worshiped, and ate with anyone who would join her. As churches across the Western world wither, Anna offers a raw, honest, gritty way of doing church.

In this episode, we:

Compare the institution of church against non-traditional church settings
Find God in the pews and in the garden
Look to cultivate community in the light of the pandemic
Take Anna’s experience from building a Church Beyond Walls into ideas for today
Love our neighbor through consideration of the most vulnerable
Discuss ways to increase our spiritual practices

Anna Woofenden is a writer, speaker, pastor, and leading voice in the food and faith movement. She is the founding pastor of the Garden Church in San Pedro, California, the founder of Feed and Be Fed Farm, and the cohost of the Food and Faith podcast. Woofenden, who has an MDiv from Earlham School of Religion, has served at Wayfarers Chapel in Los Angeles and at St. Gregory of Nyssa Episcopal Church and The Food Pantry in San Francisco

She serves as the Protestant chaplain at Amherst College and lives with her husband, David, in Northampton, Massachusetts. Woofenden is passionate about spirituality, justice, food, the earth, and community, and is driven by a calling to reimagine church.

Join us as we consider ways to spiritually connect in these days. May we be people who lean into the uncertainty, and increase church, even as we cease in-person gatherings.

Recommended reading & resources:

News, Notes, and Links:

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Episode 67 - Turning Modesty Inside Out: Unpacking What it Means to be Modest Mar 09, 2020

What does it mean to be modest? Are modesty and purity the same thing? In this episode, Alissa, Gina, Kayla, and Lindsy candidly discuss the topic of modesty in our culture through the lens of God’s upside-down kingdom. Bringing varying backgrounds and faith experiences to the table, we ponder aloud what to make of the call by many Christians to "be modest."

In this episode, we:

Jump into the typical Christian definition of modesty
Ask how this compares with the modesty question of the Bible
Compare objectification with modesty
Explore the power structures behind modesty standards
Address cultural differences of what modesty means

Join us as we challenge ourselves to be modest with an upside-down approach. May we be people who practice modesty, regardless of our gender or what we choose to wear.

Recommended reading & resources:

Where Goodness Still Grows, Amy Peterson

News, Notes, and Links:

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Episode 66 - Fullness of Our Humanity with Sister Didi: Increasing Capacity for Care Feb 24, 2020

We’re exploring the fullness of our humanity: the good, the bad, and how to hold space for each other. In this episode, we welcome guest Sister Didi Madden, a Dominican Sister of Blauvelt, NY. Sister Didi is a psychotherapist, a farmer, and the justice promoter for a collaboration of Dominican congregations in NY and NJ. She currently works on Harmony Farm in Goshen, NY.

In this episode, we:

Begin to unpack the both/and of humanity
Ask what is the need that people are living out of
Explore how categorization creates division
Address how to respond with invitation
Are challenged to learn to celebrate what is different

Host Gina Ciliberto leads the conversation with Lindsy Wallace and Kayla Craig.

Join us as we explore how to develop the capacity to be in relationship fully with each other, even as we are afraid and without all the answers. May we be people who answer the invitation to meet people and not categorize them, and be able to see with eyes of faith who the person is.

Recommended reading & resources:

The Sisters of Saint Dominic of Blauvelt, NY

News, Notes, and Links:

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Episode 65 - Anger Management Feb 10, 2020

Is anger all bad? What’s the difference between healthy, constructive anger and unhealthy, destructive anger? In this episode, Kayla Craig leads a vulnerable discussion about anger, emotions, and faith with Lindsy Wallace, Alissa Molina, and Gina Ciliberto.

Have you ever wondered: Is God an angry God? Should Christians get angry? Should women get angry? Could we use our anger to change the world?

In this episode, we:

Unpack what we were taught about anger growing up in the church, by our families of origin, and from society.
Explore how “angry” has been weaponized against women, especially black women and women of color.
Define the difference between constructive healthy anger vs. destructive toxic anger.
Explore what made Jesus angry and what that tells us about “righteous” anger.

Join us as we explore space for anger in the Christian tradition. May we be holistic people who listen to our bodies, minds, and souls...who neither ignore anger nor dwell in it, but move through it in constructive action.

Recommended reading & resources:

It’s okay for Christians to be angry. What matters is what you do with that anger. (Washington Post)
Everyday Ignatian: Prayer Showed Me My Anger — And That’s a Good Thing (Post by Shannon Evans)
Christena Cleveland: From Hostility to Humility to Healing
What Constitutes "Healthy Anger"?
Sinners in the Hands of a Loving God by Brian Zahn (Book)
Life of the Beloved by Henri Nouwen (Book)
Decolonizing Non-Violent Communication (by Meenadchi)

News, Notes, and Links:

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Episode 64 - Embodied Solidarity Jan 27, 2020

Join us as we welcome Dr. Larycia Hawkins, who talks about her experience when, in 2015, she declared her intention to don a hijab in embodied solidarity with Muslim sisters throughout Advent and what transpired afterward. Host Lindsy Wallace and co-host Gina Ciliberto join in the conversation.

Dr. Hawkins is a scholar, political science professor, and activist teaching and researching at the nexus of politics, race, ethnicity, and religion and has been called a modern-day Rosa Parks by Rev. Jesse Jackson.

In this episode, we:

Dive into how Larycia decided to embody solidarity
Soak in what was learned from Muslim women
Examine the differences in proximity versus solidarity
Humbly consider embodied solidarity as a form of death
Dare to be hopeful during the exile in the wilderness

Join us as we explore how to not only be for others but also with them. May we be people who are emboldened to embody justice to speak truth to power and to take risks as we follow Jesus.

Recommended reading & resources:

The Same God film
Follow Dr. Larycia on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook

News, Notes, and Links:

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Episode 63 - It's Complicated Jan 14, 2020

It’s Complicated. The more we learn about the suffering of the world, the more difficult it can become to live in it. Join host Lindsy Wallace along with co-hosts Kayla Craig, Alissa Molina, and Gina Ciliberto, to unpack living as engaged, thoughtful, neighbor-loving humans in a world where every choice has unintended, and possibly unknown, consequences.

In this episode, we:

Share examples of complication in our lives
Unpack where we go from learning of the complications that surround us
Get technical discussing cognitive dissonance
Discuss how we protect against overwhelm that results in paralyzation
Look to the life of Jesus to teach us what it means to be human in a complicated world

Join us as we acknowledge the privilege of embracing the complicated pieces of our own worlds while working to balance this with the compassionate love we can offer back to those around us. May we be people who learn how to recognize the complications around us and from that, walk with humility on the road to solidarity.

“May we be refuge for the complicated” - Propaganda, It’s Complicated, Crooked

Recommended reading & resources:

D.L. Mayfield’s Christ + Pop Culture Recap of The Good Place
So You Want to Talk About Race, Ijeoma Oluo
It’s Complicated, Propaganda

News, Notes, and Links:

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Episode 62 - The Gender & Ethnicity of God with Dr. Christena Cleveland Dec 16, 2019

Dr. Christena Cleveland leads Kayla and Lindsy in a conversation exploring how cultural perceptions of race and gender impact the way we view God.

In this episode, we:

Learn how Christena's background influenced how she views ethnicity and feminity
Question how Christians arrived at a male perception of God
Unpack what heals inside of us when we imagine God as Mother
Explore the intersectionality of race and gender
Address the language of empire and the work to remove feminine language in scripture
Dive into how we can celebrate a fuller advent season

Christena Cleveland, Ph.D. is a social psychologist, public theologian, author, and activist. She is the founder and director of the recently-launched Center for Justice + Renewal, a non-profit dedicated to helping justice advocates sharpen their understanding of the social realities that maintain injustice while also stimulating the soul’s enormous capacity to resist and transform those realities. She's currently working on her third book which examines the relationship between race, gender, and cultural perceptions of the Divine.

Join us as we talk with Dr. Christena Cleveland about her work as a public theologian studying cultural perceptions of race, gender, and the Divine.

Recommended reading & resources:

Support Christena Cleveland on Patreon
“When God Was a Woman" (Christena's book rec)
“When God Was a Black Woman” (Christena's book rec)

News, Notes, and Links:

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Episode 61 - Kinship at the Border Nov 26, 2019

Host Kayla Craig and co-host Alissa Molina welcome Sami DiPasquale to this episode of Upside Down Podcast - Kinship at the Border. We’re moving beyond headlines to discuss how to best love our neighbors at the US/Mexico border.

Sami is Executive Director of the Ciudad Nueva Community Outreach; which seeks to embody the gospel of Jesus Christ by advancing the renewal and development of central El Paso’s Rio Grande neighborhood through the empowerment and transformation of its residents. He lives and works with his family in the Rio Grande District, a beautiful community in the heart of El Paso, Texas. Sami serves on the international board of directors of Micah Global and on the global connections committee of the Christian Community Development Association (CCDA) – networks striving for flourishing communities free from poverty and injustice.

In this episode, we:

Learn about Sami’s work at the U.S./Mexico border
Explore how the work is possible while avoiding a savior complex
Unpack the rhetoric we should be mindful to divesting from
Explore how stubborn hope factors into Sami’s work
Address practical actions we can take to come alongside our neighbors at the border.

Join us as we embrace our shared humanity and learn more about the intricacies surrounding the US/Mexico border and our immigration system. May we be people who find hope in situations much bigger than us.

Recommended reading & resources:

News, Notes, and Links:

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Episode 60 - Let's Get Ecumenical! Catholic & Protestant Thought in God's Kingdom (New Audio!) Nov 12, 2019

What can Catholics and Protestants learn from each other's traditions? Can we work together in God’s upside-down kingdom? And when can—or should—we set aside the subtle (or not-so-subtle) differences in thought, doctrine, and practice of our own Christian belief systems to work toward a common good?
Alissa Molina hosts an intimate and honest ecumenical conversation with co-hosts Kayla Craig, Gina Ciliberto, and Lindsy Wallace. We’re thinking outside the box when it comes to our unofficial theme of this season: Get Your People and applying it to a discussion on ecumenism, hoping to model empathetic and loving discourse about our faith traditions.
In this episode, we:

Discuss the meaning within ecumenical friendships
Model asking and answering difficult questions (like about communion/Eucharist) with grace
Break down misconceptions about Protestantism and Catholicism (What are Evangelicals? What is non-denominational? What's a mainline denomination? Why do Catholics use the phrase "convert"?)
Explore the importance of having a posture of curiosity instead of defensiveness
Talk about how we can apply a more nuanced and intentionally upside-down approach to our faiths

Join us as we explore how to develop deeper understandings between our Protestant and Catholic sisters and brothers.
Reading & Resources:

News, Notes, and Links:

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Episode 58 - Good Grief: Leaning into the Now and Not Yet Oct 08, 2019

Season 4 | Episode 58 - Good Grief

Grief is the deep sorrow, anguish, and pain we feel after a loss or a death of a loved one. We all know it when it comes to us, in our hearts and in our bones. But, once we’re faced with that heaviness, what do we do with grief? How do we move forward with it or lean into it?

Host Gina Ciliberto and co-hosts Lindsy Wallace, Kayla Craig, and Alissa Molina talk about grief as it relates to the Upside Down Kingdom.

In this episode, we:

Define grief and what can be confused for grief
Explore what it means to hold grief or to feel deprived
Talk about Jesus’ weeping contrasted with today's world
Unpack how we balance grieving with “being okay”
Get creative in how we speak to or support people who are grieving

Join us as we walk through what it means to grieve as faith-based believers. May we be people who are eternally hopeful and lean into the Kingdom of here and not yet as we sit in our lamentations and in the unknowing, and to allow our neighbors the same grace.

Recommended reading & resources:

News, Notes, and Links:

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Episode 57 - The Enneagram for Justice Seekers Sep 23, 2019

We’re familiar with or at least heard of the Enneagram, but how can it help us usher in a more livable world for the most marginalized among us? What does this age-old tool of self-discovery have to say to us today, in our deeply polarized often tragic times? In this episode, Lindsy and Kayla talk with Jesse Eubanks and Sam Stevenson of the EnneaCast to find out.

In this episode, we:

Explore the natural strengths of each type in seeking justice
Address the disciplines each type can engage in for active justice
Discuss resourcefulness and non-resourcefulness of each type
Recognize the deadly sin and the gospel truth of each type

“For us personally God graciously used the Enneagram in our lives to get around our defenses and our blind spots so we could practice truth.” - Spiritual Rhythms for the Enneagram

Join us as we seek out the ways in which the Enneagram is a helpful tool in seeking justice. May we be people who are outwardly focused and are able to enter into self-clarity to offer resourcefulness for our neighbors.

Recommended reading & resources:

News, Notes, and Links:

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Episode 56 - Performative Wokeness (and Introducing Season 4!) Sep 09, 2019

What's performative wokeness? How does our faith influence the destructive performativity of Internet activism? In this episode, join host Kayla, with co-hosts Lindsy, Alissa, and Gina, in this first discussion of Season 4 - "Get Your People."

In this episode, we:

Laugh as we catch up with co-hosts after our summer hiatus
Explore the definition of wokeness through our own experiences
See the costs of awakening as the costs of the gospel, and the grace of the gospel as the grace of awakening
Recognize why platform-building by promoting good deeds may not make the impact we desire
Ask how we stay rooted in what we believe to be God’s Truth and how can that inform the ambiguous questions
Discuss how we invest in who we love by how we spend our time through hands-on action, donate our money, and prayer focus
Sit in the tension of the pull of social media activism against real-life conversations

Join us as we learn together to unpack wokeness and how it plays out on social media and IRL. May we be people who are willing to be awakened to the systematic oppression of image-bearers and allow it to cost us our sleep.

Recommended reading & resources:

Aziz Anzari’s Netflix special, Right Now

News, Notes, and Links:

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Episode 55 - Beating Guns: From Swords to Plowshares with Shane Claiborne and Mike Martin Jun 04, 2019

Violence permeates our society. But Shane Claiborne and Mike Martin believe we can begin preparing for the future the prophets foretold now, where swords will be converted to plows. Join us as we discuss their new book, Beating Guns, which Walter Brueggemann called, “The quintessential pro-life book if there ever was one!” When Jesus said to love your enemies, isn’t it safe to assume he meant that we shouldn’t kill them?
In this episode, we:

Unpack personal experiences with guns and how these impact life today
Dive into facts of American gun laws and ownership
Hear of vigils and workshops where the gun is traded for the cross
Explore how we trade the second amendment for the sermon on the mount
Seek to employ courage and imagination in love and peacemaking over war and violence
Identify ways we can deconstruct the culture of violence that is in the DNA of the United States

Join us as we explore hope for people who are wary of violence. May we be people who love our enemies by working towards freedom to live unarmed and fearless, refusing to fight violence on its own terms.
Recommended reading & resources:

News, Notes, and Links:

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Episode 54: Hope as Resistance: Stuff That Needs to Be Said with John Pavlovitz May 14, 2019

Hope is still possible, even when the pain of the world feels like too much. What if kindness, empathy, and compassion are the way forward? Join host Kayla Craig and co-hosts Lindsy Wallace, Alissa Molina, and Gina Ciliberto with special guest John Pavlovitz. John is a writer, pastor, and activist.

In the past five years, John's blog Stuff That Needs To Be Said has reached a diverse worldwide audience of millions of people. In 2017 he released his first book, A Bigger Table. His second book, Hope and Other Superpowers, arrived in November of 2018.

In this episode, we:

Unpack what “hope” and “resistance” means and how we live them in today’s world
Explore the role that community plays in hope
Ask how we move beyond soundbites into embodied hope
Reconcile the temptations of apathy against savorism
Identify steps each of us can take right now to be the kind of person the world needs

Join us as we explore hope as resistance, pulling those threads to see how it looks like in our actual lives. May we be galvanized, encouraged, and compelled by this conversation on pressing into pain and choosing a way of hope, even when the world feels pretty hopeless.

Recommended reading & resources:

News, Notes, and Links:

Support more conversations like this on Upside Down Podcast! Please visit us, where you can pledge a few dollars of monthly support to help us pay our bills and keep the conversations going.
Learn more at Upside Down Podcast.
We’re on Instagram, too.
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Episode 53 - Hashtag Called: Exploring Calling and Vocation Apr 23, 2019

You can’t fully explain it. But we’ve all experienced the phenomenon: Inner tugs that just won’t let us go. What are callings? How do we define vocation? Inspired by one of our first and most-popular episodes, "Hashtag Blessed," comes "Hashtag Called." Gina Ciliberto hosts a conversation on what it means to be “called” with co-hosts Alissa Molina, Kayla Craig, and Lindsy Wallace.

In this episode, we:

Unpack what “calling” means (and doesn’t mean) to our hosts
Ask about when vocations/callings are not so much about happily communing with God and understanding personal mission but, rather, a source of anxiety
Wonder if (and how) it’s possible to have more than one true calling
Explore callings as they relate to prestige or success
See how callings come through others

Join us as we dive into that inner-pull, that haunting thing that is “a calling.”

Recommended reading & resources:

Leonard Lopate on Calling
Callings: The Purpose and Passion of Work by Dave Isay
Laura Fanucci runs the Communities of Calling Initiative for the Collegeville Institute at Saint John’s University in Minnesota. As part of her theological work on vocation, she has written To Bless Our Callings: Prayers, Poems, and Hymns to Celebrate Vocation and co-authored Living Your Discipleship: 7 Ways to Express Your Deepest Calling.

News, Notes, and Links:

Support more conversations like this on Upside Down Podcast! Please visit us, where you can pledge a few dollars of monthly support to help us pay our bills and keep the conversations going.
Learn more at Upside Down Podcast.
We’re on Instagram, too.
Join the Upside Down Tribe on Facebook!

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Episode 52 - Livin' on a Prayer: A Creative Take on What it Means to Pray Apr 09, 2019

What is prayer? Why does it matter? Is there a right way to pray? Join Kayla Craig, Lindsy Wallace, and Alissa Molina as they enter into an engaging, unexpected, fast-paced conversation with Justin McRoberts and Scott Erickson; the authors of Prayer: Forty Days of Practice. We talk about praying when you don’t want to pray or don’t know how, being angry at God, creation as a form of prayer, and why prayer is an important part of God’s upside-down Kingdom.

Justin McRoberts is an author and musician who hosts the @Sea Podcast and lives with his wife and two kids in the Oakland/San Francisco Bay area. Scott Erickson is a touring painter and performance artist who mixes autobiography, biblical narrative, and aesthetics to create art. He lives with his wife and three kids in Portland.

In this episode, we:

Discuss how our understandings of prayer can grow and change over time;
Address why prayer can feel contrived or unnatural;
Ask why art and prayer are important in God’s Kingdom;
Talk about lament, anger, and privilege when it comes to prayer
Answer how writing and creating can be redemptive tools.

Join us as we dive into prayer, creativity, and spirituality.

Recommended reading & resources:

Authors: Justin McRoberts + Scott Erickson
Book: Prayer: Forty Days of Practice

News, Notes, and Links:

If you’d like to support us to keep Upside Down Podcast ad-free, please visit us, where you can pledge a few dollars of monthly support to help us pay our bills and keep the conversations going.

Follow Justin online and on Instagram

Follow Scott online and on Instagram and on The Say Yes Show

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Episode 51 - The "F" Word: Unpacking Feminism and Other Labels Mar 25, 2019

In this episode, Lindsy Wallace is joined by guest co-host and friend of the podcast Diana Oestreich in a conversation with Claire Swinarski of The Catholic Feminist Podcast to discuss the “F” word, as well as labeling ourselves and others.

In this episode, we:

Learn The Catholic Feminist Podcast origin story;
Unpack the definition of “feminist”;
Discuss the impacts of the feminist label in our current cultural climate;
Learn how we love one another even when we label ourselves differently;
Identify female saints and biblical mothers who can inspire us all!

Join us as we explore what it means to be a feminist, diving into what labels we claim and the good and bad that comes from claiming labels for ourselves and ascribing them to others.

Recommended reading & resources:

Dear Ijeawele, or A Feminist Manifesto in Fifteen Suggestions by Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie

The Long Loneliness: The Autobiography of the Legendary Catholic Social Activist by Dorothy Day
Christena Cleveland

News, Notes, and Links:

If you’d like to support us to keep Upside Down Podcast ad-free, please visit upsidedownpodcast.com/give, where you can pledge a few dollars of monthly support to help us pay our bills and keep the conversations going.

Follow Claire online.
Follow Diana online.

Join the Upside Down Tribe podcast listener group on Facebook.

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Episode 50 - Begin Again: Examining Our Stories & Introducing New Co-Hosts! Mar 11, 2019

What happens when your plans get turned upside down? What happens when you have to begin again? This two-part episode starts on a personal note and ends with exciting introductions of TWO new co-hosts! First, Upside Down Podcast founders Kayla and Lindsy share the unexpected events that happened between Jan. 6 and Feb. 6 in both of their families, sharing with vulnerability and heart as they process their grief along with their hopes, reflecting on endings and beginnings. Then, they look ahead to the future of Upside Down Podcast, introducing new co-hosts for the coming season, Alissa Molina and Gina Ciliberto!
Upside Down Podcast is an ecumenical podcast, bridging the divide between Catholic and Protestant thought, and we're grateful to welcome our Catholic sisters Alissa and Gina to the digital table!
Meet Gina: Gina spends a lot of time with nuns as the mission promoter for the Dominican Sisters of Hope. When she's not learning about the sisters' radical take on God, she's writing about food, travel, and justice on a freelance basis.
In her spare time, she can be found snuggling foster bulldogs, exploring NYC, helping to run her local CSA, and hosting friends in her Bronx apartment.
Meet Alissa: Alissa loves being a wife and mom. Her family of seven lives just outside of Austin, Texas where in between packing lunches and finding matching socks, she thinks a lot about how to become a saint by loving well.
Alissa has learned more and more to revel in the little things that add up to fill big spaces. Things like kitchen dance parties, family movie nights, coffee with a friend, and at-home dates are among her very favorites.
News, Notes, and Links: With new hosts, came new mics, and new bills! We're producing this podcast with the help of our community. Would you join us? Please visit upsidedownpodcast.com/give, where you can pledge a few dollars of monthly support to help us pay our bills and keep the conversations going. We couldn't do this without you!
Visit Upside Down Podcast for more episodes, to learn more about us, see behind-the-scenes details.

Be part of our listener community: Join the Upside Down Tribe on Facebook.
We hang out on Instagram. Find us there!

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Episode 49 - Ethical Storytelling with Dr. Melissa Borja + Jacob Mau: Seeing Beyond Ourselves Feb 18, 2019

What is ethical storytelling? Why is it important to allow others to tell their own stories? In this thought-provoking episode, we're back from our hiatus to do a deep dive into what to consider when sharing the stories of others in a way that honors their dignity. Kayla Craig hosts with Lindsy Wallace and guests Dr. Melissa Borja and refugee advocate podcaster Jacob Mau.
Melissa Borja, a core faculty member in the Asian/Pacific Islander American Studies Program at the University of Michigan, earned a PhD and MPhil in history from Columbia University, in addition to an MA in history from the University of Chicago and an AB in history from Harvard. She researches migration, religion, politics, race, and ethnicity.
Because Jacob Mau believes in the power of the voices and stories of displaced people, he created a podcast called Beyond Soundbites, a six-episode series that calls refugee supporters to an ongoing search for the personhood of refugees, the meaning of home, and the presence of God in stories of displacement.
In this episode, we:

Ask what it means to "magnify" and "amplify" stories.
Peel back how storytelling is significant and is approached differently by people doing different types of work—for example, oral historians like Melissa, advocates like Jacob, journalists like Kayla, and people working in ministry like Lindsy.
Discuss the importance of thinking carefully about the position and context of both the storyteller and the audience, and the (sometimes unequal) relations of power that can complicate their relationship.
Dive into the sacred aspects of storytelling and story-listening - as Melissa says, “the grace of listening to another’s story” and the powerful spiritual act of simply being present for people who are sharing their story.

In this episode, we ask:

What does it mean to tell "ethical" stories?
How can we place others as the subject -- not the object -- of stories?
Why is it true that in justice work, we show ourselves as the victim, or the hero, but rarely the perpetrator?
What guidelines do you follow when sharing others' stories?
What do we do with the phrase "voice for the voiceless?"

Discussion questions to ask yourself + others:

There’s been some talk about performative social justice, and that’s something we've seen played out on Instagram, if we're honest, with our friends, and if we're really honest, sometimes with ourselves. Why is there an urge to do this, sometimes even under the guise of humility? How can we protect ourselves against this? What questions should we ask ourselves?
Are we okay with experiencing connection and NOT sharing? Does everything have to be shared?
How do we incorporate God’s word and our faith into storytelling in respectful, kind ways?
How do we avoid centering ourselves?
When have you made a storytelling mistake? What did you learn from it?

News, Notes, and Links:

Support us to keep Upside Down Podcast ad-free! Please visit upsidedownpodcast.com/give, where you can pledge a few dollars of monthly support to help us pay our bills and keep the conversations going. We couldn't do this without you!
Visit Upside Down Podcast for more episodes, to learn more about us, see behind-the-scenes details.

Be part of our listener community: Join the Upside Down Tribe on Facebook.

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Episode 48 - Representation Matters: Diversity in Healing with Ryan Tolbert of Tru-Colour Bandages Dec 11, 2018

What does "representation matters" mean? Ryan Tolbert of Tru-Colour Bandages joins Kayla Craig and Lindsy Wallace to discuss what representation is, why it matters, their own representation experiences, and how they believe a kinder, more inclusive planet is in our future.

In this episode, we:

Learn the Tru-Colour Bandages origin story;
Unpack what it means to say “representation matters”;
Share our own personal representation experiences;
Learn about the relationship between representation and diversity;
Discuss how we can increase the diversity in our lives.

Join us as we explore how representation and diversity benefit all of us.

Recommended reading & resources:

Visit: Trucolourbandages.com
Shop: Tru-Colour Bandages at Target
Watch: W. Kamau Bell's Netflix Special, "Private School Negro"
Watch: Chris Rock's Documentary "Good Hair"
Listen: Once Upon a Time in Wakanda

News, Notes, and Links:

If you’d like to support us to keep Upside Down Podcast ad-free, please visit upsidedownpodcast.com/give, where you can pledge a few dollars of monthly support to help us pay our bills and keep the conversations going.
@tcbandages
Visit Upside Down Podcast's website to learn more
Join the Upside Down Tribe on Facebook

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Episode 47 - Consumerism and God's Kingdom (Featuring Special Guests Shannan Martin and Ashley Hales!) Nov 27, 2018

Consumption! Capitalism! Consumerism! Christmas! We’re hitting pause and engaging the heart of consumption, capitalism, consumerism and most importantly, the heart of Christmas. What does it mean to celebrate the birth of Jesus, a poor kid from Nazareth who learned his father’s trade and had nowhere to lay his head? Ashley Hales and Shannan Martin join us as we ask: How do we opt out of the glitz and glitter around us to make space in our homes for the baby Messiah born in a manger?

Shannan Martin, author of “The Ministry of Ordinary Places,” is a speaker, blogger, wife, and mom of four. Ashley Hales is a writer, speaker, pastor’s wife, and mother of four. She is the author of “Finding Holy in the Suburbs: Living Faithfully in the Land of Too Much.” Ashley and Shannan join Kayla Craig and Lindsy Wallace for a conversation about staying Christ-centered in a season of excess.

In this episode, we:

Share how the life of Christ influences our approach to celebrating the Christmas holiday;
Discuss whether modern capitalism is compatible with Christian living;
Share how we mindfully engage in gift-giving; and
Think about how we can emulate the life of Christ as consumers.

Join us as we discuss how we can celebrate Christmas in a capitalistic society while emulating the life of Jesus.

Recommended reading & resources:

“Finding Holy in the Suburbs” by Ashley Hales
“The Ministry of Ordinary Places” and “Falling Free” by Shannan Martin
The Pray as You Go app and podcast
Shannan Martin’s 12 Ways of Christmas
Adventconspiracy.org and @adventconspiracy
The Blessed is She Advent devotional
Walter Brueggeman’s two Advent devotionals
Listen to our conversation on ethical fashion with Lauren Pinkston of Wearthy (episode #32).

News, Notes, and Links:

If you’d like to support us to keep Upside Down Podcast ad-free, please visit us here, where you can pledge a few dollars of monthly support to help us pay our bills and keep the conversations going.

Find Ashley on Instagram: @aahales

Find Shannan on Instagram: @shannanwrites

http://www.upsidedownpodcast.com/

Join the Upside Down Tribe on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/upsidedowntribe/?fref=nf

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Episode 46 - Father Gregory Boyle Talks Kinship, Compassion, and Hope in Suffering Nov 12, 2018

Get ready for a very special conversation with Father Gregory Boyle, founder of Homeboy Industries, the largest gang intervention, rehab and re-entry program in the United States. Father G sat down with Kayla Craig during his visit to Iowa to discuss kinship, compassion, and hope in suffering. We welcome you into this intimate conversation. Soak up Father G's tender, funny, and compassionate wisdom from years living a faithful life of kinship with those on the margins.
As CEO of Homeboy Industries, Father Gregory Boyle has dedicated his life to loving L.A.'s most marginalized individuals. Homeboy Industries started in 1988 and employs and trains former gang members in a range of social enterprises, as well as provides critical services to 15,000 men and women who walk through its doors every year seeking a better life. Father G has become a beloved beacon of hope around the world and after this episode, you'll know why.
In this episode, we:

Peel back the layers of prayer in the midst of suffering.
Discuss the holy act of being in awe of others.
Reflect on God's silence in our pain.
Consider God's extravagant love.
Dive into Father G's thoughts on burnout and self-care (it's probably not what you think).

Join us as we hear words of wisdom from Father G, who generously shares his heart with us and answers all of our nosy questions. He also lets us know what books he's reading lately!
Recommended reading & resources:

Barking to the Choir: The Power of Radical Kinship, Gregory Boyle
Tattoos on the Heart: The Power of Boundless Compassion, Gregory Boyle
homeboyindustries.org

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Episode 45 - Love Crosses Borders: Immigration Beyond the Headlines with Sarah Quezada Oct 22, 2018

Immigration has become a polarizing and politicized topic in our country and our world. Demeaning phrases and overwhelming statistics are thrown around with frightening ease and often it seems we have forgotten that we are talking about people. We’ve invited today’s guest, Sarah Quezada, to remind us of the humanness of immigration.

Sarah is a writer and nonprofit professional in Atlanta, Georgia, with more than a decade of experience working across cultures and leading conversations about justice, faith, and serving among the poor. Sarah joins Kayla Craig and Lindsy Wallace for a conversation about the upside down response to immigration.

In this episode, we:

Share our early encounters with (and thoughts about) immigrants;
Hear Sarah’s stories from the border;
Dispel common misconceptions about immigration;
Learn how we can engage with people who have different views; and
Reflect on how we can be more welcoming.

Join us as we learn how we can better love our neighbors and work toward justice, peace, and reconciliation.

Recommended reading & resources:

- “Love Undocumented: Risking Trust in a Fearful World” by Sarah Quezada

- Sarah’s weekly newsletter: The Road Map

- Listen to our conversation with Salem Afangideh, immigration attorney and Nigerian immigrant (episode #19).

News, Notes, and Links:

If you’d like to support us to keep Upside Down Podcast ad-free, please visit upsidedownpodcast.com/give, where you can pledge a few dollars of monthly support to help us pay our bills and keep the conversations going.

@sarahquezada

http://www.upsidedownpodcast.com/

Join the Upside Down Tribe on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/upsidedowntribe/?fref=nf

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Episode 44 - Faith Under Construction: Recorded Live from the Upside Down Gathering in Chicago! Oct 08, 2018

We're excited to share our first episode ever recorded with a live audience, recorded at the Upside Down Gathering on Sept. 21. In this conversation, we dive into the tension between faith deconstruction and reconstruction, guided by professional counselor and friend of the podcast Aundi Kolber. Kayla Craig, Lindsy Wallace, and Shannon Evans open up about their own faith journeys in this special episode.

In this episode, we tackle the questions:

What was your faith upbringing like? What have pivotal points been in your journey?
What has deconstruction of faith looked like for you? Why is reconstruction important?
What books, thoughts, or spiritual leaders have helped shape your faith?
Do you consider yourself an evangelical?
How has your view of God changed?

Join us as we share our honest experiences inside and outside of the church, reflecting on how our Christian faith has been shaped, molded, broken down, and built up on this long and winding journey with Jesus.

Recommended reading & resources:

To learn more about Kayla, Lindsy, and Shannon’s faith journeys, check out episodes #8, #9, and #12. To learn more about Aundi’s work, listen to episode #36 on mental health.

News, Notes, and Links:

If you’d like to support us to keep Upside Down Podcast ad-free, please visit http://www.upsidedownpodcast.com/give, where you can pledge a few dollars of monthly support to help us pay our bills and keep the conversations going.
Follow Upside Down Podcast on Instagram: @upsidedownpodcast

Visit our guest moderator Aundi on Instagram: @aundikolber

Visit our Website to learn more: http://www.upsidedownpodcast.com/

Join the Upside Down Tribe on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/upsidedowntribe/?fref=nf

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Episode 43 - A Spiritual View of Vulnerability with Pastor Mandy Smith Sep 24, 2018

We talk vulnerability with Mandy Smith, lead pastor of University Christian Church, a campus and neighborhood congregation with its own fair-trade café in Cincinnati.

Mandy is a regular contributor to Christianity Today and Missio Alliance and the author of “The Vulnerable Pastor: How Human Limitations Empower Our Ministry.” She also is the director of Missio Alliance’s SheLeads Summit: ChurchTogether and creator of The Collect, a citywide trash-to-art project. Mandy joins hosts Kayla Craig and Lindsy Wallace to examine a spiritual view of vulnerability, finding hope within the prophetic imagination.

In this episode, we:

- Learn from Mandy about how vulnerability shapes our creativity, casts a new vision for how the church views gender, and how we can reconstruct our own faith

Talk about what to believe when we think God has made a mistake in his callings

Discuss the healing power of creating art from trash

Create space for others to be human and for God to be God.

Join us as we hear words of wisdom from Mandy, who has a soft pastor heart and brilliant mind.

Recommended reading & resources: “The Vulnerable Pastor: How Human Limitations Empower Our Ministry” by Mandy Smith Missio Alliance: http://www.missioalliance.org/author/mandysmith/ “The Surprising Solution When Gender Dynamics Seem to Be Destroying the Church,” by Mandy Smith:https://www.missioalliance.org/the-surprising-solution-when-gender-dynamics-seem-to-be-destroying-the-church/

News & Notes: - Thank you for joining us at the Upside Down Gathering! - Join Mandy Smith on Nov. 10 at the Church Together Summit. We’ll hear not only how God has revealed new ways to understand gender, but also how God is revealing new depths of the Gospel. The panel will be made up of pairs of male-female ministry partners, sharing the challenges and joys of ministering together. Join us onsite at PazNaz in Southern California, or attend one of the streaming sites around the country: https://www.churchtogethersummit.org/.

If you’d like to support us to keep Upside Down Podcast ad-free, please visit upsidedownpodcast.com/give, where you can pledge a few dollars of monthly support to help us pay our bills and keep the conversations going.

Links: @uccmandy http://www.upsidedownpodcast.com/ Join the Upside Down Tribe on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/upsidedowntribe

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Episode 42 - Preemptive Love with Jessica Courtney: Love Anyway, Show Up, and Get Out of the Way Sep 10, 2018

We kick off season three with an extra special conversation with one of our friends at Preemptive Love Coalition! Jessica Courtney, co-founder and Vice President of International Programs for Preemptive Love Coalition, joins Kayla Craig and Lindsy Wallace to discuss unmaking violence and pursuing a more beautiful world. With heart and humility, Jessica shares her personal stories of what it’s like to learn from her Iraqi neighbors.

In this episode, we:

Learn about PLC’s history and how the organization has evolved;Hear why Jessica and her family decided to move to Iraq, despite the risks;Share how we can hold onto hope in a volatile and scary world; andLearn how we can get involved in PLC’s mission.

Recommended reading & resources:

Support PLC: https://www.purecharity.com/preemptivelove“Cynical” song by Propaganda: https://genius.com/Propaganda-cynical-lyrics“Preemptive Love: Pursuing Peace One Heart at a Time” book by Jeremy Courtney

News & Notes:

We’re excited to see many of you in Chicago on Sept. 21-22 for our first-ever live event, The Upside Down Gathering! We’ll be joined by Preemptive Love Coalition’s key relationships officer Diana Oestreich, who will share more stories about unmaking violence and lead us all toward a posture of peace. Even if you didn’t get a ticket, if you live in or near Chicago, you’re still welcome to join us on Saturday night, for a free concert with Micah Bournes. Follow us on Instagram throughout the weekend for behind-the-scenes content!

If you’d like to support us to keep Upside Down Podcast ad-free, please visit upsidedownpodcast.com/give, where you can pledge a few dollars of monthly support to help us pay our bills and keep the conversations going.

Links:

@preemptivelove@jessicajcourtneyhttp://www.upsidedownpodcast.com/Join the Upside Down Tribe on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/upsidedowntribe/?fref=nf

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Bonus Episode: Community, Art, Justice: A Special Message About The Upside Down Gathering Jun 21, 2018

We're gathering in Chicago this fall at the first-ever Upside Down Gathering. Today (June 22) is the last day to purchase your early bird tickets, so Kayla and Lindsy have a quick chat introducing the speaker lineup for the two-day event at Wilson Abbey in Chicago.Hear a preview of Micah Bournes' music, find out which Upside Down Podcast guests will be returning to speak live, and get a sneak peek into the topics and themes we'll cover during this event. Learn more and purchase your tickets at www.upsidedownpodcast.com/gathering.

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Episode 41 - Intentional Community (And an Upside Down Gathering in September!) May 21, 2018

In our last regular episode before summer break, we gather to talk about community: not the hashtag or the social media version, but the essence of community as a sense of place and belonging. Host Kayla Craig is joined by Lindsy Wallace, Shannon Evans, and special guest, Rebekah Troche, who lives at Jesus People USA, a church and intentional community in Chicago.

In this episode, we:

Learn about JPUSA’s mission and ministry and why Rebekah was drawn to it;Share our vision for this fall’s Upside Down Gathering;Talk about how vulnerability and trust play a role in community;Bring forward tangible ways we can begin to cultivate community; and weTackle listener questions about how to deal with conflict and how an introvert can find respite amid a community-building lifestyle.

Join us as we recognize how intentional community with others is pivotal to the upside-down life.

Recommended reading & resources:“Community and Growth” by Jean VanierJesus People USA: http://jpusa.orgWilson Abbey in Chicago: http://wilsonabbey.com/Everybody’s Coffee: https://everybodyscoffee.com

News & Notes:

We’re opening the doors to Wilson Abbey in Chicago for the first-ever Upside Down Gathering on Sept 21-22, 2018. Get your tickets at upsidedownpodcast.com/gathering.

We’ll be back in September with brand-new episodes! In the meantime, we’ll feature short sessions and one-on-one conversations with creators and makers in God’s Kingdom, one in June, one in July, and one in August. To have access to those episodes, join our community of $10/month supporters on Patreon: patreon.com/upsidedownpodcast.

To have access to a download with tangible, creative ideas to be a more present neighbor right where you are, join our community of $10/month supporters on Patreon: patreon.com/upsidedownpodcast.

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Episode 40 - Making Peace With Our Bodies May 08, 2018

In this episode, we gather to discuss the relationship between women and our bodies. Host Shannon Evans is joined by Lindsy Wallace, Kayla Craig, and special guest, author Colleen Mitchell. Colleen is the author of “When We Were Eve: Uncovering the Woman God Created You to Be.” Together we analyze the effects of both hypersexualization and excessive modesty and wrestle with questions of how to retain the holiness of our physicality in a world bent on making it a source of shame. We discuss how our view of the incarnation affects our view of bodies and how our view of the triune God shapes our view of self.In this episode, we:Discuss our culture’s standards of the ideal female body - and why it affects us so deeply;Share how hypersexualization is seeping into our marriages and relationships - and how we can combat it; Look at the other end of the spectrum - excessive modesty - and the effect it can have on our psyches;Encourage each other to embrace our bodies as “storytellers”; and Think about what it could look like for women to truly delight in their God-given bodies.Join us as we empower women to make peace with our bodies in a holistic way -- and to find holiness in our physicality.Recommended reading & resources:“When We Were Eve: Uncovering the Woman God Created You to Be” by Colleen Mitchell“The Body Keeps the Score” by Bessel van der KolkColleen’s “31 Days of Embodied Faith” blog seriesPope John Paul II’s lecture series on Theology of the BodyLinks: @colleencmitchhttp://www.blessedarethefeet.com/31-days-of-embodied-faith/ http://www.upsidedownpodcast.com/Join the Upside Down Tribe on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/upsidedowntribe/?fref=nf

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Episode 39 - Rethinking Incarceration with Dominique Gilliard Apr 24, 2018

We're grateful to have Dominique Gilliard, author of “Rethinking Incarceration: Advocating for Justice That Restores,” join us on the podcast. In addition to being an author and an ordained minister, Dominique is the director of racial righteousness and reconciliation for the Love Mercy Do Justice (LMDJ) initiative of the Evangelical Covenant Church (ECC). Lindsy Wallace leads the conversation.In this episode, we:Define mass incarceration and discuss its foundation and history in America;Talk about how mass incarceration plays out in our communities and in society;Share how the Gospel should inform our response; andProvide actions that all of us can take to become advocates for change.Join us as we discuss how Christians can pursue justice that restores and reconciles.Recommended reading:“The New Jim Crow” by Michelle Alexander“Just Mercy” by Bryan Stevenson“Slavery By Another Name” by Douglas BlackmonLinks: @dominiquedgilliardhttp://www.upsidedownpodcast.com/Join the Upside Down Tribe on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/upsidedowntribe

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Episode 38 - Parenting: Raising Upside Down Kids Apr 09, 2018

What does it look like to raise upside down kids and be intentional parents in God's Kindom? Are the Beatitudes just for people who aren’t too busy? Was Jesus addressing only non-parents? How can social ministry and family ministry enrich each other In this episode, we talk about how we can preach the Gospel within and through our own families, and how we can include our children in our actions for justice. Kayla Craig leads the conversation with co-hosts Shannon Evans and Lindsy Wallace.In this episode, we:Talk about how we can focus on our parenting goals for our children -- and how those manifest in our decisions;Share how we create family community;Discuss how we can teach and model multiculturalism and nontraditional gender roles in our families; Share six basic principles for family involvement in social action; andTalk how we approach some practical aspects of family life.Join us as we discuss concrete ways of living and parenting that transform Kingdom values into everyday adventures of prayer and action.Resources & recommended reading:The Blessed Is She prayer journal for kids“Parenting for Peace and Justice” by Kathleen and James McGinnis“Never Say No: Raising Big Picture Kids” by Mark and Jan Foreman

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Episode 37 - The Enneagram: Unscripted Conversations on Spirituality, Culture, and God's Upside Down Kingdom Mar 26, 2018

In this episode, we talk all things Enneagram, an ancient tool that has grown in popularity in Christian spheres in recent years. Most people think of the Enneagram as a personality typing system, but may not be familiar with it or how it can influence us in the upside down kingdom. Lindsy Wallace leads the conversation with co-hosts Shannon Evans and Kayla Craig, along with our guest, Jesse Eubanks. Jesse is the Founder and Executive Director of Love Thy Neighborhood, an urban missions agency providing young adults with social justice internships and Christian community. He also is the host of the Love Thy Neighborhood podcast and is a certified instructor in the Enneagram of Personality.In this episode, we:Talk about what the Enneagram is and how it differs from other personality tests;Walk through each of the nine types;Share our own Enneagram types;Share some of the pushback we have heard about using the Enneagram in the church; andProvide resources for those who want to learn more.Join us as we delve into how the Enneagram can be applied to the upside down kingdom.Recommended reading & resources:“The Enneagram: A Christian Perspective” by Richard RohrCrosspointministry.comWepss.com ($10, 30 minutes)@yourenneagramcoach on InstagramLinks: @jesseeubankshttp://www.upsidedownpodcast.com/Join the Upside Down Tribe on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/upsidedowntribe/?fref=nfSupport us at www.patreon.com/upsidedownpodcast

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Episode 36 - Mental Health + The Conversations We Need to Have, Feat. Guest Host and Counselor Aundi Kolber Mar 13, 2018

Professional counselor Aundi Kolber joins for an open and honest conversation about mental health, and the sometimes precarious relationship between mental health and the Christian community. Kayla Craig leads the conversation with co-hosts Shannon Evans and Lindsy Wallace. Aundi Kolber (@aundikolber) is a professional counselor in Colorado, who specializes in trauma, depression, and anxiety. Together we reflect on the impact that mental health challenges have on a person of faith and their loved ones, expose stigmas and cliches, and seek to identify where the Church is failing to support this need and how she could do better. In this episode, we: Share how mental health has affected our families; Break down the popular platitudes and “advice” often given to Christians with mental health struggles; Discuss the obstacles to getting help; Talk about how the Church can better support those affected by mental health disorders -- and what we can do as individuals; and Share the possible redemptive elements of having fragile mental health. Join us as we give a voice to the experience of those suffering the effects of mental health disorders and address how the Christian community can support them better. Recommended reading: “The Body Keeps the Score: Brain, Mind, and Body in the Healing of Trauma” by Bessel van der Kolk

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Episode 35 - Adoption 2.0: Unscripted Conversations on Life & Faith Feb 27, 2018

What's it like to “do life” as an adoptive family? Kayla Craig leads the conversation with co-hosts Shannon Evans and Lindsy Wallace. Between us, we have 13 kids, six of whom were adopted. We’ve done foster care, international adoption, and domestic infant adoption. We’re not experts, but we are experienced and we’re excited to share what we’ve learned with our listeners. If you’re not an adoptive family, we encourage you to listen so you’re better equipped to love and support the adoptive families around you!

In this episode, we:

Talk about the emotional stressors (including financial and marital) that came with adoption;Share what we wish people knew about attachment;Delve into open adoption and birth family communication;Talk about the questions our adopted kids ask (and how we answer them);Talk honestly about what trauma looks like in our homes; andAnswer a listener question about the challenges that can arise in the years following an adoption.

Join us as we strive to encourage adoptive families and equip families considering adoption.

Recommended reading & resources:Karen Purvis Institute of Child Development Listen to one of our very first episodes (Bonus Episode: All About Adoption)Links: http://www.upsidedownpodcast.com/Join the Upside Down Tribe on Facebook

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Episode 34 - Kingdom Women with Jo Saxton and Pastor Steph: Unscripted Conversations on Life and Faith Feb 12, 2018

Jo Saxton and Steph Williams O'Brien join us in this episode to discuss what it's like to be a woman in God's Kingdom in 2018. What did God have in mind when He created women? What are the possible negative consequences when women are left out of the conversation?

Kayla Craig leads a discussion with co-hosts Shannon Evans and Lynsy Wallace. Guest hosts Jo Saxton and Steph Williams O’Brien are co-hosts of the popular podcast, Lead Stories (@leadstoriespodcast)!

In this episode, we: • learn about the true definition of (and Biblical roots of) ezer; • talk about how we can realize our full potential -- and the ways we sometimes stunt ourselves; • share our Enneagram numbers (hint: we share the same number!) and discuss how our tendencies can influence how we act; • get real about vulnerability, weakness, and channeling our passions; • share the women who inspire us on our faith journeys; • delve into the #metoo movement; • and answer a listener's question about the "f" word -- feminism. Join us for a conversation on being kingdom women -- and stick around for our new segment, "Hold My Earrings."

Recommended reading & resources: "The Dream of You: Let Go of Broken Identities and Live the Life You Were Made For" by Jo Saxton leadstoriesmedia.com

Links: @josaxton; @pastorsteph http://www.upsidedownpodcast.com/ Join the Upside Down Tribe on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/upsidedowntribe

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Episode 33 - It's OK to Grow Old: Are We Afraid to Talk About Aging? - Unscripted Conversations on Life & Faith Jan 23, 2018

Do we avoid talking about age? Why? Kayla Craig leads the discussion with co-host Lindsy Wallace and guest host Corinne Shark joins us from SE Asia. We talk about it all in this episode: Aging, glorification of youth, unexpected illness in our own lives, fear of aging and death (yeah, we go there), multi-generational relationships, the spiritual wisdom that comes with aging, and milestone birthdays (Kayla just turned 30 and Corinne just turned 40!). Join us as we model messy, honest conversations about aging from a Kingdom perspective. Further Reading: Book: “The Art of Growing Old” by Carroll Saussy Book: "Falling Upward: A Spirituality for the Two Halves of Life" by Richard Rohr Guest Corinne Shark: www.instagram.com/thesaltyshark Our website: www.upsidedownpodcast.com Our Facebook Group: www.facebook.com/upsidedowntribe

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Episode 32 - Ethical Fashion: Unscripted Conversations on Life & Faith Jan 09, 2018

What is ethical fashion? Everything we wear comes at a cost - often at the expense of artisans abroad who are exploited for cheap labor. Guest co-host Lauren Pinkston of Wearthy joins us at the virtual table, providing first-hand insight and practical tips on how to make intentional, Kingdom-centered choices in the items we purchase. How do we stop sacrificing the dignity of people who made our clothes around the world in poor factory conditions and for poor pay? Lauren leads the way for co-hosts Lindsy Wallace and Kayla Craig to ask hard questions about the effect on human rights, and the environmental impact, that comes from items we wear. Keep listening, because there’s a Wearthy ethical shopping DISCOUNT CODE for Upside Down Podcast listeners! Episode Resources: Wearthy, Lauren's business that brings together different ethically-made clothes and accessories: https://wearthy.org/ True Cost Documentary Lauren recommends: https://truecostmovie.com/ Young Adult Book Lindsy discusses: Boys without Names by Kashmira Sheth Our website: www.upsidedownpodcast.com Our listener group: www.facebook.com/upsidedowntribe

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Episode 31 - Ask Us Anything: Unscripted Conversations on Life & Faith Dec 19, 2017

You asked; we answered in this episode of Upside Down. Lindsy Wallace hosts a fun "Ask Us Anything" version of the podcast with Kayla Craig and Shannon Evans. We answer listener questions from serious to silly and everything in between. We discuss what it means to be a Christian in a world where Christianity sometimes doesn't have a great witness, answer questions on transracial adoption, and dive into dating and marriage. We also give our "eleventh commandments."

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Episode 30 - All The Small Things: Smallness in God's Kingdom - Unscripted Conversations on Life & Faith Dec 05, 2017

Does big equal better in God's upside-down Kingdom? Join us as we dive into what God says about all the small things in this episode of Upside Down Podcast. Where does grace factor in as we determine our worth and our actions in God's Kingdom? We dive into inspiration from Henri Nouwen and Mother Theresa (and touch on quotes Christian culture tends to appropriate). We discuss the ever-so-dicy topic of Christian platforms, and land on God breaking into our earth as a baby born to a poor girl among animals and hay, asking what this teaches us about smallness in God's Kingdom. How do we guard against the temptation to value the sexy missions or platforms that tend to lead us to miss the daily callings God has given us? We discuss missions, mega churches, and ministry impact as we look into the advent season. Shannon Evans hosts with Kayla Craig and Lindsy Wallace.

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Episode 29 - God & Money: Unscripted Conversations on Life & Faith Nov 21, 2017

What does God say about finances? What power does money hold in God's upside down kingdom? Is there really enough to go around in God's economy? In this episode of Upside Down Podcast, we unpack ideas of faith, church, and western culture as it relates to money. Is there guilt and shame surrounding Christians when they think about money? Or are Christians too lackadaisical when it comes to wealth? What does Jesus think of the American Dream? We discuss it all: Idols, missions, simplicity, storage units, scarcity mentality, and going on vacation in this episode hosted by Lindsy Wallace, Shannon Evans, and Kayla Craig. Scripture References: - Luke 21 The Widow's Offering - Acts 2 - Luke 12:12 Parable of the Rich Fool Further Reading: "Freedom of Simplicity" by Richard Foster "The Liturgy of Abundance, The Myth of Scarcity" by Walter Brueggemann "God's Economy: Redefining the Health and Wealth Gospel" by Jonathan Wilson-Hartgrove

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Episode 28 - Nationalism: Is it an Idol? Unscripted Conversations on Life & Faith Nov 06, 2017

Do we put country before God's kingdom? What happens when we conflate being patriotic with being a Christian? Does the flag come before the cross? Join us as we wade into murky waters of nationalism and idolatry with special guest host, and Iraq war veteran Diana Oestreich. We discuss patriotism vs. nationalism, one veteran's perspective of the NFL kneeling during the national anthem, rituals of the pledge of allegiance, and more. Kayla Craig hosts with Lindsy Wallace and Shannon Evans.

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Episode 27 - Peacemaking: Unscripted Conversations on Life & Faith Oct 17, 2017

Jesus said, "blessed are the peacemakers", but what does it look like to actually live as one? Lindsy, Kayla, and Shannon are joined by guest co-host and professional peacemaker Diana Oestreich of Preemptive Love Coalition in this bold episode. We discuss Diana's life-changing story, how peacemaking differs from peacekeeping, and small ways that we can all work to be peacemakers in our own lives.

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Episode 26 - Commitment to Celebration: Unscripted Conversations on Life & Faith Oct 03, 2017

The world is broken. People are hurting. But even - maybe especially - when life is at its most difficult, could the practice and discipline of celebration be what orients our hearts to the Kingdom of God? What does it look like to persevere and celebrate even amid heartache and suffering? Does celebration in God's kingdom look different than partyin' it up with your friends for a treat yo' self day? Is the Church doing it right? Lindsy Wallace, Shannon Evans and Kayla Craig are joined by guest co-host D.L. Mayfield for a rich conversation diving into what celebration looks like in God's Upside Down Kingdom. "I will celebrate the light of Christ in a world of darkness the life of Christ in a culture of death the liberty of Christ in a kingdom of captivity and the hope of Christ in an age of despair I will rejoice always and in everything give thanks." - InnerCHANGE ministry

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Episode 25 - Spiritual Seasons and Transitions: Unscripted Conversations on Life and Faith Sep 12, 2017

What are spiritual seasons? How do we process transition? What does change look like in God's Kingdom? We dive into what it looks like when expectations are dashed, hope is found, and life takes unexpected twists and turns. We dive into practical ways to stay rooted in unsure times, Lindsy shares how she found herself living life in the slow lane, and we pepper in some laughter and feature a random Lion King reference, because that's how we do. We also discuss some big changes and transitions for Upside Down Podcast, too, and give a hint of what's to come in the fall season. Kayla Craig hosts with Shannon Evans and Lindsy Wallace.

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Episode 24: Gentrification: Unscripted Conversations on Life & Faith Aug 15, 2017

Gentrification: It's a topic often misunderstood, and maybe even a bit controversial. We speak with Leroy Barber, one of the few experts on gentrification. Leroy has dedicated nearly thirty years to eradicating poverty, confronting homelessness, restoring local neighborhoods, healing racism, and living what Dr. King called “the beloved community.” He is currently writing his fifth book entitled, The Injustice of Gentrification: Memories of Home, which is the topic of his conversation with Lindsy Wallace. Kayla Craig and Kristi James join Lindsy for a post-interview conversation as well.

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Episode 23 - Downward Mobility: What Is It? Is It Different from Minimalism & Simplicity? Unscripted Conversations on Life & Faith Jul 11, 2017

What is downward mobility and how is it different from simplicity and minimalism? What is the appeal to living a life with less and is it sufficient for the Christian? In this episode we discuss what it looks like to shed our privilege and also use it for the good of our neighbors and the Upside Down Kingdom. Shannon Evans hosts the conversation with Lori Harris and Lindsy Wallace.

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Episode 22 - Social Media in an Upside Down World Jun 13, 2017

Most of us have a love/hate relationship to social media. We recorded this episode live at our Upside Down Podcast retreat, and in this conversational episode hosted by Kristi James with co-hosts Lindsy Wallace, Shannon Evans, and Kayla Craig, we discuss how we try to navigate the tricky Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter waters. We unpack that whole "behind-the-scenes vs. highlight reel" thing, discuss using social media as a numbing tool, dive into our desire for affirmation (or even, to be "right"), and share how we've navigated justice or political issues on Facebook, too. It's a light episode with what we hope is an undercurrent of thoughtfulness -- and we want to hear what you think, too!

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Episode 21 - Do We Need Church? Unscripted Conversations on Life & Faith May 23, 2017

The church is weird and disappointing. And we love it anyway. Why? Join us for a conversation that almost feels like a family meeting. We acknowledge the shortcomings of the local church, but talk about the importance, too. In some Upside Down Podcast episodes, we’ve shared our (valid) frustrations with the church, the church in America, places where the church isn’t doing enough, etc. and we want to take an episode to lay a foundation of our relationships with the Church at large and the local church, too. We discuss church hurt, Catholicism, community, church consumerism, and more. Kristi James hosts with Kayla Craig and Lindsy Wallace.

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Episode 20 - Mom So Hard: Mother's Day Thoughts: Unscripted Conversations on Life & Faith May 09, 2017

This one goes out to all the moms! (And all the waiting moms, all the foster moms, all the mom-figures, all the women who bring life to their communities, and all the people who have ever loved a mom!) Pull up a chair and join us for some laughs and maybe a few tears in this sweet little motherhood episode. We chat about rocky beginnings, throwing parenting books away, and *the* moment that changed everything. We give a few mom hacks, talk about loosening our grips, and the unexpected ways we're ditching expectations. And of course, we share the darnedest things our kids have said recently. Join us! Lindsy Wallace hosts with Kayla Craig and Kristi James.

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Episode 19 - Immigration: A Conversation Feat. Salem Afangideh, Immigration Attorney & Nigerian Immigrant Apr 25, 2017

Should Christians care about immigration? Our friend Salem Afangideh, immigration attorney, shares her journey into law and gives perspective into why people of faith should care about issues surrounding immigration. We start learning about executive orders but dive into so much more, including immigration myths, how faith affects work, avoiding a savior complex, why self care is important, valuing people over money, and how Salem experiences life as a woman of color. Kayla Craig hosts with Lindsy Wallace and Kristi James. Learn more about Salem and lawyers who care at afangidehglobal.com.

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Episode 18 - Christians & Suffering: Unscripted Conversations on Life & Faith Apr 11, 2017

Are we surprised by pain & suffering? In the hardest times, it can feel like hope is out of reach, even for a person of faith. In this honest (but hopeful!) episode, all five co-hosts examine what seasons of sorrow have taught them about Jesus. Lindsy reveals a time in her life that was marked with cancer, death, and unknown, and we all share what NOT to say to someone who is suffering. (Just say NO to Christian cliches!) We dive into how the suffering we’ve experienced has changed the way we think of Jesus' empathy, compassion, love, and sacrifice. Shannon Evans hosts with Lindsy Wallace, Kayla Craig, Kristi James, and Lori Harris.

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Episode 17 - We Can't Do It All (And We Don't Have to!): Unscripted Conversations on Life & Faith Mar 29, 2017

Doing it all is a myth: And we're here to bust it! Often times, we feel the burden to accomplish everything and spin all the plates. In this special episode (which was recorded LIVE and IN PERSON!) we discuss why we don't have to do it all and how grace covers us. We talk about what we've each given up in our own lives, and how listeners can find freedom from the busy, too. There's lots of laughter + deep truths in this episode: Take a listen and let us know what you think! Kayla Craig hosts with Lindsy Wallace, Kristi James, and Shannon Evans.

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Episode 16 - LIFE: Redemption & Abortion: Unscripted Conversations on Life & Faith Mar 21, 2017

Join us as we sit down Amber Newberry, who shares her heartbreaking experience of sexual assault and abortion, and how she found redemption in God's love. (Save this episode for when little ears are not around!) Amber shares how some Christians were hurtful and hateful to her about abortion, and also how other believers brought messages of hope and healing. After Amber shares her story, the hosts process and discuss the statistics of abortion in the church, and how Christians can walk out pro-life beliefs beyond picket lines. Lindsy Wallace and Shannon interview Amber Newberry of Beautiful & Beloved, and then Kayla Craig and Kristi Wallace join the conversation about the gospel, upside-down grace, and wanting to be known by our love.

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Episode 15 - LIFE: A Comprehensive Pro-Life Ethic: Unscripted Conversations on Life & Faith Mar 07, 2017

How do we walk in a way that supports life in ALL facets of our messy world? We talk about finding a comprehensive life ethic as we affirm that each person is made in the image of God. We go beyond loaded terms like "pro-life" or "pro-choice" and share our hopes of growing in empathy to find a third way. We ask hard questions and discuss some tangible ways to stop vilifying those who see things differently. We’re humbled to wade through these murky waters with you, and we hope and pray that our conversation will be life-giving as you continue to work through these thoughts, too. Kayla Craig hosts with Lindsy Wallace, Kristi James, Shannon Evans, and Lori Harris.

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Episode 14 - Education Options: Can it ALL be Upside Down? Unscripted Conversations on Life & Faith Mar 01, 2017

Homeschool, Christian private schools, public education: Which method do you choose? We had so much left to discuss about education, we recorded a PART 2 to Episode 13. We hope to model what it looks like to have thoughtful conversations with people who have landed different places -- and how we can trust the Holy Spirit to work in others' lives. We chat about how saying "yes" to whichever educational method we choose is saying "no" to something else. We discuss how we supplement our individual educational choices based on our family's priorities and principles. We also talk about what we love about our current choices, and times when we've felt judged for the choices we've made. Lindsy Wallace hosts with Kristi James, Kayla Craig, Shannon Evans, and Lori Harris.

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Episode 13 - Education: Public School, Private School, or Homeschool? Unscripted Conversations on Life & Faith Feb 21, 2017

Education is a BIG topic, so why not dive in? What does it look like to live upside-down in the schooling choices we make for our kids? Our co-hosts represent public school, private school, and homeschool. We chat about how our own education experiences affect the choices we make today. What role should faith play in approaching education? Do Christians have a responsibility to care about public school in the U.S.? Lori Harris, a public school advocate, shows her passion in this episode. Join us as we share what we're reading (and catch the hot tip for how to sneak in reading if you have a busy schedule!). We chat about WHY we've made the different education choices we've made in this conversational episode. Buckle in for a wild ride - this is the first of probably MANY education episodes! Shannon Evans hosts with Lori Harris, Kristi James, Lindsy Wallace, and Kayla Craig.

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Episode 12 - Shannon's Journey to an Upside Down Life: Unscripted Conversations on Life & Faith Feb 07, 2017

In our FINAL meet-the-host episode, we're so glad to get to know deep-thinker Shannon Evans. Shannon shares about loneliness, special needs parenting, and what drew her to Catholicism. A former evangelical missionary turned unlikely Catholic, Shannon has lived with a squatty potty in Indonesia + raised a family in a community house in Texas. These days she and her husband Eric can be found searching for the upside down kingdom in small town Iowa while hosing mud off their three little boys. Lori Harris and Kristi James lead this conversation with Shannon.

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Episode 11 - Lori's Journey to an Upside Down Life: Unscripted Conversations on Life & Faith Feb 01, 2017

You'll laugh and be deeply moved as you get to know co-host Lori Harris, a public school advocate, a student of radical hospitality, and a perpetual plate spinner who believes that the upside down kingdom springs up wild and free when the Church commits to wholeheartedly seek the welfare of their cities. Lori and her bi-vocational church planting husband, Thad have six children. Join us as we learn more about Lori, a writer who pens the nitty-gritty stories of life from the edge of the wrong side of the tracks. Kristi James and Shannon Evans co-host this episode.

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Episode 10 - Kristi's Journey to an Upside Down Life: Unscripted Conversations on Life & Faith Jan 25, 2017

We continue our interview series with host Kristi James. Kristi is a work-at-home writer and editor, as well as a church planter's wife and mom to three little girls. Kristi shares about the time (last year) she fell over trying out some sweet dance moves during mini-golf, and the real reason she avoided writing classes in college. She and her family moved to Asheville, NC to plant their church in 2011, and in this episode she shares about how she approaches reading scripture when it feels a little dry, how she landed her dream job, and what keeps her up at night. You can find her on her BRAND NEW blog at www.kristenannjames.com. Kayla Craig and Lindsy Wallace co-host and interview Kristi in this episode.

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Episode 09 - Kayla's Journey to an Upside Down Life: Unscripted Conversations on Life & Faith Jan 17, 2017

Next up in our meet-the-host series is Kayla Craig. Kayla's a full-time journalist turned work-at-home mom (of four!) and author. In this episode, we laugh about her accidental first date with her now-husband, whom she met in drama class in high school. We loved their engagement story and cracked up at the fact that they're BOTH ENFPs. Lindsy Wallace and Kristi James co-host this fun episode that dives into faith, motherhood, and owning your fifth-grade awkwardness.

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Episode 08 - Lindsy's Journey to an Upside Down Life: Unscripted Conversations on Life & Faith Jan 10, 2017

To kick off 2017, we're getting to know each co-host with a special episode, diving into faith journeys, unexpected stories, and of course, a little fun, too. In this episode, we get to know Lindsy Wallace. She loves Jesus, her husband, their five kids, hot tea, hiking in the woods, and good tattoos. Her family lives in Miami where they seek to bring the Kingdom come to the inner-city as it is in Heaven. When she’s not homeschooling her kids or getting to know her neighbors, she writes about faith, justice, race and more on her blog lightbreaksforth.com.

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Episode 07 - Joy for All People: Unscripted Conversations on Life and Faith Dec 20, 2016

Joy to the world: What does that mean? What's the difference between happiness and joy? In this advent episode, we discuss the upside down notion that if it’s not good news for everyone, it’s not good news. We share our struggles and victories in finding joy in our own lives, and hope to encourage you, too. Join us as we share upside down thoughts on hope, peace, and joy, and we share a few laughs over our favorite Christmas songs, too. Shannon Evans hosts with co-hosts Kayla Craig, Kristi James, Lindsy Wallace, and Lori Harris.

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Special Bonus Episode - The Talk: A Conversation on Race with Tyler Burns Dec 13, 2016

We speak with Tyler Burns, founding member of the Reformed African American Network and host of the Pass the Mic podcast. This conversation is full of grace and honesty, and is deeply important not only to our culture, but to the Kingdom of God. We ask about The Talk black parents have with their children and the Christian duty white parents have to The Talk. Tyler is also a youth pastor in Pensacola, Florida. Lindsy Wallace interviews Tyler with the help of Lori Harris and Kristi James.

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Episode 06 - Loneliness in the Kingdom of God: Unscripted Conversations on Life and Faith Dec 06, 2016

Following Jesus can feel lonely. Why? Is that an entirely bad thing? Maybe we need to flip our view of loneliness upside down. We discuss why it's easy to feel lonely in this kingdom of now and not yet. We dive deep into Dietrich Bonhoeffer's idea that we have to lose to gain, specifically that we have to lose some aspect of community before we can -- through Christ -- have redeemed relationships. Kayla Craig hosts the conversation with co-hosts Lindsy Wallace, Lori Harris, Kristi James, and Shannon Evans.

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Episode 05 - Why Love is the Final Fight: A Conversation with Dr. John M. Perkins Nov 21, 2016

Our VERY special first-ever guest is with Dr. John M. Perkins, one of the leading Christian voices to come out of the American civil rights movement. A pastor, author, and founder of the Christian Community Development Association, we're honored to talk with him and share his words with you. Kayla Craig interviews Dr. Perkins and co-hosts Lori Harris, Kristi James, and Shannon Evans join after to process his words on living out justice, loving your neighbor, and pursuing racial reconciliation.

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Episode 04 - Radical Hospitality: Unscripted Conversations on Life & Faith Nov 08, 2016

Hospitality: In God's Kingdom, what does hospitality look like? What's the difference between faith-fueled hospitality and simply entertaining? What does the Bible say about radical hospitality and community? In this episode, our hosts dive into what radical hospitality looks like when we open our hands, hearts, and homes to the people in front of us. Kristi James leads the discussion with co-hosts Lori Harris, Lindsy Wallace, Shannon Evans, and Kayla Craig.

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Bonus Episode: All About Adoption Oct 31, 2016

Considering adoption? To celebrate National Adoption Month, we're giving you a special episode dedicated to adoption! Adoptive moms (and co-hosts) Lindsy Wallace, Kayla Craig, and Shannon Evans share their adoption experiences and offer encouragement. From foster care adoption to international adoption to special needs adoption, we discuss what you should know before adopting. We talk about adoption home studies, costs, agencies, consultants, and more. We share what we wish we would have known before we began the process, and important resources to help you as you start the adoption journey.

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Episode 03 - Hashtag Blessed: What does "blessed" mean in the Upside Down Kingdom? Unscripted Conversations on Life and Faith Oct 25, 2016

We see #blessed all the time, but what does blessed really mean in God's Kingdom? How has Christian culture used the word blessed incorrectly? Correctly? And what does scripture say about blessings? We dive into how Jesus uses "blessed" in the Sermon on the Mount. But it's not all serious: Each co-host also shares what emoji has been describing herself lately. Shannon Evans leads the discussion with Kayla Craig, Lori Harris, Kristi James, and Lindsy Wallace.

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Episode 02 - Safety, Fear, and the Kingdom of God. Unscripted Conversations on Life & Faith Oct 11, 2016

In Episode 2 of Upside Down, we dive into how Christians can easily idolize safety. What does the Bible say about safety? What about fear? What did Jesus say about being safe? We share five different perspectives and personal experiences, and add a little humor to the mix, too (including our guilty pleasures when it comes to music!). Lindsy Wallace leads the discussion with co-hosts Kristi James, Lori Harris, Kayla Craig, and Shannon Evans.

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Episode 01 - What Does it Mean to Live Upside Down? Unscripted Conversations on Life & Faith Sep 27, 2016

Our pilot episode brings together five Christian women from across the country discussing the intersection of life and faith. Join us as we chat about the upside down life in the kingdom of God. No topic is off limits as we flip the script on our culture and dive into how following Jesus changes everything. Kayla Craig leads the discussion with co-hosts Kristi James, Lori Harris, Lindsy Wallace, and Shannon Evans.

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