Unveiling Grace Podcast

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UGP 260 - Responding to the Mormon Missionary Gospel of “Doing” – Paul Nurnberg – Part 3 Sep 30, 2023

Show notes

In the book, Responding to the Mormon Missionary Message, Paul addresses LDS Missionary Lesson 3 called, The Gospel of Jesus Christ, from the missionary manual Preach My Gospel. For LDS, eternal life includes doing: faith, repentance, water baptism, the gift of the Holy Ghost given by LDS priesthood, and various laws kept and temple ordinances performed as well as enduring to the end to try to reach the highest heaven (Celestial Kingdom). There is no assurance of eternal life in this life in the LDS gospel. Paul brings up some great questions. If LDS argue today their salvation is by grace, then what is the function of the LDS temple? Can anyone go in or do you have to do something to qualify? The Reformation came about when the Catholic Church offered the paying of indulgences for special privileges. Since tithing is required to enter an LDS temple where ordinances are required to strive to reach the highest LDS heaven, isn’t this practice similar to what the reformers fought against? Staircases and ladders? Another difference between the LDS gospel and the gospel of the Bible is that the LDS Holy Ghost leaves someone when they sin, although his role is supposed to give one the strength to obey the commandments. But, how can a Latter-day Saint have the help of the Holy Ghost to strive to reach the Celestial Kingdom if he abandons them when they sin? Isn’t that when one needs him the most? Paul discusses the LDS Holy Ghost’s lack of omnipresence in Episode 46 of the Outer Brightness Podcast. His chapter in the book gives a number of dos and don’ts for witnessing to missionaries and offers scriptures they may use to teach the LDS gospel.

UGP 259 - Returned LDS Missionary Gets Baptized unto Jesus 12 Years Later – Paul Nurnberg – Part 2 Sep 23, 2023

Show notes

After his mission, Paul poured into books and journals like the Journal of Book of Mormon Studies that supposedly demonstrated evidence for the Book of Mormon. He found there wasn’t really any. Looking online for a good LDS spouse, he met Angela, a new convert from the Cincinnati area. Paul soon moved to the Cincinnati area, found work, and married her in the temple. While working in health insurance, Paul tried to convert Charlotte to the LDS Church. She later returned the Book of Mormon to him and gave him a stack of papers her pastor had given her with reasons to question the LDS faith. Paul read them, began researching the various topics, and his “shelf broke.” Now not sure he even believed in God, Paul decided to simply focus on Christ but remain LDS. While driving, he began to listen to Christian radio hosts such as J. Vernon McGee, David Jeremiah, and Chip Ingram and tried to reconcile their teachings with Mormonism. He says his wonderful Christian father-in-law patiently “poured into him." Then, Paul secretly read In Sacred Loneliness about the plural wives of Joseph Smith. Angela read it as well, her shelf broke, and she longed to return to the grace-filled relationship she had known with Jesus in the evangelical church before she joined the LDS. Paul was ready. His first experience worshipping in an evangelical church made the differences between LDS and traditional Christianity palpable. Jesus was clearly the focus; Joseph Smith was not part of it. Paul was baptized unto Jesus in August of 2011 and then baptized his own son. Find him as co-host on the Outer Darkness Podcast.

UGP 258 - LDS Missionary Discovers His Faith is a System of Works – Paul Nurnberg – Part 1 Sep 16, 2023

Show notes

Paul Nurnberg returned from his LDS mission (1997-1999) to Hungary with questions. Several Christians he met on his mission showed him that what he preached was a system of works, not compatible with saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone as the New Testament taught. Ephesians 2:8-9 especially impacted Paul and he recognized this was different than what he had always understood the gospel to be. Paul came home dreaming of one day becoming an archaeologist who would find the evidence to prove to the world that the Book of Mormon and the LDS gospel was true, but was it?

UGP 257 - It’s Smart to Believe and Smart People Do Believe – Ratio Christi CEO Corey Miller – Part 2 Sep 09, 2023

Show notes

Corey Miller, former LDS now Christian CEO of Ratio Christi, explains that statistically there are more believers in Jesus in the basic and fundamental sciences like math and physics than in the social sciences. Smart people do believe. Discussion touches on evidences for the reliability of the Bible. Corey recommends the book In Defense of the Bible. We refer listeners to the final chapter in our book Leaving Mormonism: Why Four Scholars Changed their Minds for reasons to believe in God and to believe His Word. Corey reminds Lynn of a debate they did together with LDS apologist James Holt on Unbelievable Radio on November 24, 2017. Jesus is the answer to the human condition.

UGP 256 - Christianity is a KNOWLEDGE Tradition, It’s Reasonable – Ratio Christi CEO Corey Miller – Part 1 Sep 02, 2023

Show notes

Proverbs 21.16 says those wander from logic/sound reason will rest in the assembly of the dead. Jesus declares Himself the Logos (Greek word for logic). Therefore, God is love but God is also logic, the fountainhead of rationality. Faith is reasonable. Today’s discussion with Corey Miller, former LDS now biblical Christian and CEO of the apologetics organization RatioChrist, emphasizes the fact that Christianity is a KNOWLEDGE Tradition. It was Christians who first launched the U.S. universities. However, since 1930, the universities have been largely ruled by nonbelievers in Jesus. “As goes the universities, so goes the culture. As goes the U.S. universities, so goes the world,” states Miller. So, Christians created their own universities: Biola, Moody, etc. For those under 40 today, there exist 23 liberals to each one conservative. Find Corey’s article on how to reclaim the universities for Christ here: https://www.equip.org/articles/how-we-lost-the-universities-how-to-recla...

UGP 255 - Responding to the Mormon Missionary Message: Authors Miller and Anderson — Part 2 Aug 26, 2023

Show notes

This is Part 2 with the authors of the book Responding to the Mormon Missionary Message, Corey Miller and Ross Anderson. Ross explains that although the LDS missionary manual Preach My Gospel was recently updated, none of the content has changed. When meeting with LDS missionaries, this book will prepare you in advance for what they will teach and give a biblical response. Learning the LDS gospel may help Christians understand the biblical gospel and be better able to articulate our own relationship with the living Jesus. Corey says we have 2 ears and one mouth for a reason—listen to the LDS! Five LDS may give 6 differing opinions on their beliefs. Respond to an individual’s beliefs. Ask questions. In addition to Miller and Anderson’s contributions, this book contains chapters from 6 former LDS missionaries now biblical Christians who also describe their experiences with Christians on their LDS missions, telling what Christians may have said or done that impacted them personally. Ross reminds us to testify to the reality and intimacy of our relationship with Jesus.

UGP 254 - Responding to the Mormon Missionary Message: Authors Corey Miller & Ross Anderson — Part 1 Aug 19, 2023

Show notes

Responding to the Mormon Missionary Message is an excellent new book that covers exactly what LDS missionaries are directed to teach their investigators from their manual called Preach My Gospel. The authors, Corey Miller and Ross Anderson, explain the LDS culture (persecution-sensitive) and the LDS testimony (“Don’t confuse me with facts, I have a feeling”) as a foundation for understanding the LDS people. Then, the book gives biblical responses to each of the missionary teachings. We see this book as invaluable to Christians with a heart to witness the biblical gospel to LDS missionaries telling truth in love.

UGP 253 - Helping an LDS Woman Transition to Biblical Faith; It Takes a Village – MacKenzie Jones – Part 2 Aug 12, 2023

Show notes

MacKenzie encourages Christians: it’s ok not to have all the answers for LDS friends and missionaries. Simply tell them, that's a great question. I’ll research that and get back to you. This past year, MacKenzie has helped an LDS woman, Janet, in her transition from LDS faith to biblical understanding. She says at first Janet had an anxious emotional response after discovering how different LDS teachings were from biblical teachings. She needed just to be heard--to process what she was learning out loud--in a safe place with supportive friends.

UGP 252 - Effective Witness to LDS Missionaries – MacKenzie Jones – Part 1 Aug 05, 2023

Show notes

MacKenzie Jones is a young Christian woman who witnessed to LDS missionaries for 3 solid years by inviting them into her apartment, feeding them popcorn and water, playing board games with them, and discussing Scripture—both sisters and elders. She shares that she learned her own faith better through those years of getting to know the LDS and their faith. MacKenzie encourages Christians to step into conversations with LDS missionaries by simply asking questions and sharing Bible Scripture IN CONTEXT. Stick with the Bible. Love and respect them. Do not try to prove them wrong, she says. They are just kids. We discuss specific passages of Scripture LDS missionaries often bring up (they use the King James Version of the Bible) whose clarity comes through context.

UGP 251 - Jesus is Enough; His Hand is Not Too Short to Save – Brad Steckelberg – Part 4 Jul 29, 2023

Show notes

The LDS church was studying the Old Testament. The LDS teaching that Eve’s taking of the fruit in the garden was a “fall upward” disturbed Brad. He knew that God wanted relationship with man and that Eve’s choice created a separation between God and man. When the LDS OT manual got to the part about the tabernacle, Brad knew the symbolism of the tabernacle and later the temple pointed to Jesus and that when Jesus died on the cross, there was no more need for a temple (Matt 27:51). Although while researching, he found information from ex-Mormon atheists online, Brad knew there was a God. So, when he came across the YouTube channel Hello Saints, he reached out to Pastor Jeff, who became a pastor to him as he struggled with his mom’s diagnosis of brain cancer and later cared for her. Although he felt peace after giving his mom an oil anointed LDS blessing, he felt the same peace when a Christian woman prayed for his mom without the oil. Brad’s mom, strong in her Christian faith, wrote a book before she died called, She Gave Me Carmel Apples (https://suevrooman.com/). After she passed, Brad dove into the Bible, using Christian commentaries and writing in the margins of his Bible; he decided the LDS gospel was way too complicated (see Romans 10:9-10). He gained an assurance his mom was in the presence of God without any LDS ordinances. His hand is not too short to save (Isaiah 59:1). Brad went to see Adam’s Road, stopped wearing his LDS garments and declared this decision brought healing. Brad is in the process of giving up his LDS membership; he found a supportive Christian community. He says the best way to describe what happened to him is simply: Jesus is enough.

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