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Unreasonable – Podcast Unreasonable

Feeling overwhelmed by the relentless attack on American Democracy by the Religious Right? Welcome to Unreasonable: sane conversations for a country that’s lost its friggin’ mind. But Unreasonable is more than a podcast. It’s the start of a movement to reverse the inexorable rise of religious fanaticism taking over our government and our lives, on issues from public education, to women’s reproductive health, to the mainstreaming of loud-and-proud racism. Here we not only learn together what in the world’s going on with our country, we develop an action plan to move America forward. It’s time for all of us who believe in the Separation of Church and State to unite — as the majority of Americans we are — in the name of democracy, common sense and kindness. Is that really so unreasonable?

Copyright: © 2024 Unreasonable LLC

Latest Episodes:

"Is Israel A Theocracy?" with Bernard Avishai Dec 13, 2024

Whatever your position is on Israel, on Zionism, on Hamas' attacks on October 7, 2023 or Netanyahu’s prosecution of the war in Gaza, it's undeniable that Israel had an outsized influence on our recent presidential election.
And it's ironic that our greatest ally in the Middle East, that tiny state described as the only functioning democracy in the region, may well have been a major contributor to the undoing of American democracy.
How did the promise of Israel become the problem of Israel?
Unreasonable executive producer and this episode's guest host, Bennett Windheim, spoke with political economist, educator and author Bernard Avishai and asked: Is Israel a theocracy, and are there cautionary lessons for America to learn?
Avishai is the Visiting Professor of Government at Dartmouth and former adjunct Professor of Business at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. He’s taught at MIT and Duke. A Guggenheim fellow, he is the author of several books including 'The Tragedy of Zionism,’ 'A New Israel,' and 'The Hebrew Republic.'

He is a former editor of the Harvard Business Review and contributes regularly on matters of political economy and Israeli affairs to the New Yorker, The New York Review, The Nation, the New York Times Magazine, and Harper's, for which he wrote last year’s captivating report entitled “Israel’s War Within: On the Ruinous History of Religious Zionism.”

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"How Religious Organizations Game The IRS" with Prof. Lloyd Hitoshi Mayer Nov 30, 2024

Despite the New Testament’s recording of its main character making a clear distinction between what man owes his government (taxes) and his lord (devotion), in real life it’s never quite worked out that way. Churches have been tax-exempt since time immemorial. Today, the very idea of asking houses of worship to pay their fair share is a non-starter. Much like asking this country to elect a woman president.
At a time when the IRS is stretched thin and overwhelmed by its own complexity, religious organizations are leveraging loopholes to take advantage of the tax code and pastors are increasingly, and egregiously, flouting electioneering from the pulpit (an activity restricted by the Johnson Amendment). Further, the incoming administration has already made clear its intent to declare nonprofits that oppose its policies terrorist organizations, thereby stripping them of their nonprofit status and thus their ability to collect tax-deductible donations, their very lifeblood.
Lloyd Hitoshi Mayer, professor of nonprofit law at Notre Dame University, is our Virgil, guiding us with wisdom and humor through this holy hellscape of taxes and religion.

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"It's An Opus Dei World, You're Just Living In It" with Gareth Gore Oct 25, 2024

In 2017, like many financial journalists, Gareth Gore went to Spain to report on the sudden collapse of the global bank, Banco Popular. And, like every other reporter, he missed the real story.
That is, until he returned to Spain two years later. As he recalls, "It was sheer luck, ...that I picked up a newspaper and saw that there was this scramble from people to get their money back. And it was only when I discovered some of the more sinister links later on that it became a wider story about Opus Dei rather than the bank."
In his new book, "Opus: The Cult of Dark Money, Human Trafficking and Right-Wing Conspiracy Inside the Catholic Church" (Simon & Schuster) Gore explains how one man turned his "vision" from God into a mission to "reChristianize the world," and how the organization he created, with its bizarre rites and structure, first infiltrated Spanish society with the help of the country's dictator Francisco Franco, won the imprimatur of the Vatican, became a financial powerhouse, and today, wields influence in the halls of the United States Congress and Supreme Court.
If you thought the New Apostolic Reformation and Ziklag were disturbing, you will not be assuaged by Gore's revelations. Still, knowledge is power. Come November 5, we have the opportunity to reject the theocratization of America. #vote

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"The Risk of Left-Wing Political Cartooning" with Jesse Duquette Oct 10, 2024

Early last week we recorded an interview with illustrator Jesse Duquette. Then we got the word over the weekend: Meta not only shut his account down, but permanently deleted its posts and eradicated his community of over 200,000+ followers. Mark Zuckerberg’s Metaminions decided Duquette’s incisive and hard-hitting cartoons were just too much for Instagram. (Meta is the company that started out simply as Facebook but now includes Instagram, Threads, WhatsApp as well as other properties.)

This is the same Mark Zuckerberg who in 2019 told students at Georgetown University that “Frederick Douglass once called free expression ‘the great moral renovator of society,’ and repeating Douglass’ words, ‘slavery cannot tolerate free speech’.”

Apparently Duquette’s style of cartooning was intolerable.
This episode is a twofer: Part One is a deep-dive into the life and times of an artist and political commentator at work. Part Two explores the aftermath, when the AI of the world’s most powerful social media company, proves incapable of discerning satire, and banishes a popular presence based on its own misunderstanding of what it thinks it knows.

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"Conversations with THOSE People" with Pierce Watkins Sep 21, 2024

Pierce Watkins is a Zen-master of epistemology.

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, epistemology is “the theory of knowledge and understanding, esp. with regard to its methods, validity and scope, and the distinction between justified belief and opinion.”

In other words: how do we come to know what we know, and believe what we believe, whether it’s true or not? At what point do our inherent biases take control of our brains?

Pierce's current project, Compassionate Epistemology, is fascinating. He’s interested in having civil conversations around why people believe what they do and, more importantly, how they came to those conclusions. Even more importantly, how does one express an opposing view (based on, say, provable facts) without resorting to emotional violence.
It's not easy. But at a time when America is a country of divided states each with their own belief system, isn’t it at least worth trying to understand where "those people" are coming from? (Maybe. I dunno…)
As Christina asks, "How do you have a conversation with someone who would have stoned Galileo?"
Pierce has some ideas about that.

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"Ziklag" with Andy Kroll Aug 30, 2024

Just when you thought you had a handle on all of the Christian Nationalist efforts to reshape America into their biblical paradise (think New Apostolic Reformation, Seven Mountains Dominionism, Jericho Marches, The Federalist Society, The Heritage Foundation, TurningPointUSA, Project 2025), along comes Ziklag, a secret society of mega millionaires created to help sway our elections toward a Christian Nationalist agenda that's also, (get this!) a tax-exempt 501(c)3!
With a name right out of the Marvel Universe, you'd think it comical if it weren't for real. ProPublica reporter Andy Kroll (along with his collaborator Nick Surgey of Documented) engaged in good old fashioned investigative journalism to draw back the curtain on this nefarious group and the ultra-wealthy families (whose fortunes you likely contribute to) behind it.

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"Faith, Interfaith and Non-Belief at the DNC" with Sarah Levin and Hemant Mehta Aug 24, 2024

After a long long week of activity in Chicago, our friends Sarah Levin (Secular Strategies) and Hemant Mehta (Friendly Atheist), graciously agreed to connect for an exclusive conversation for Unreasonable listeners, recapping what they saw and heard at the Democratic National Convention, especially from a secular perspective, since over 30 percent of the Democratic party is non-religious.

There was a lot of god talk coming from the podium. And we get it: Democrats have the opportunity to draw in people of faith who’ve finally had it with their anti-Christ candidate. How many of those people actually exist? Who knows, but in this game of inches it behooves us to invite them to the party and feel welcome. As they should: honest people of faith do, for the most part, share the social and moral values of secular voters.
And though there’s still work to be done, tremendous strides have been taken by the party to acknowledge their reliable None voters.
Sarah and Hemant walk us through them on this special DNC episode of Unreasonable.

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"Black Nonbelievers" with Mandisa Thomas Aug 17, 2024

The Black Church is as American as anything you can name. For so many, the promise of a glorious afterlife gave, and gives, succor to a lifetime of hardship here on Earth.
The influence of its sacred music is directly linked to the secular music we all listen to and enjoy today, from Jazz to Soul to R&B to Rock nd Roll. And for that we can be grateful.
But despite the prevalance of church culture in the African-American community, and American society as a whole, many Black people reject the idea of an afterllife and a god that oversees it. For them, Jesus was a salve foisted on their ancestors by slaveholders who needed their property to behave.
Mandisa Thomas is the founder and president of Black Nonbelievers, an organization that promotes atheism among the Black community, and provides communal shelter from a world that often ostracizes nonbelievers.
She is a happy warrior in the battle of certainty vs. skepticism.
Listen now, and then check out these resources to learn more.
Black Nonbelievers

Pew Research:
History of Faith Among Black Americans

gOD-Talk Film and Web Series
”Black Nonreligious Americans” Survey by
Black Nonbelievers and American Atheists
Black Nonreligious Survey

Black Christians vs. Black Nonbelievers Debate

Cringe Alert: Kent Hovind Debate

Black Freethinkers by Chris Cameron

Dr. Tony Pinn
Candace Gorham

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"There Are More of Us" Live From TNR'S Stop Trump Summit Aug 03, 2024

Ten weeks ago Joe Biden was still the Democratic candidate for president and Donald Trump was…well…still Donald Trump (and he’s only become a more extreme version of himself since).
Yet somehow, these two — one, a decent career civil servant, the other a loathsome career self-servant — were neck-and-neck in polling. And Democrats were losing their shit.

It was then, in mid-May, that The New Republic magazine convened a group of academics, lawyers, journalists, activists, politicians and pundits in Philadelphia for their Stop Trump Summit. It was at once illuminating and comforting for an audience desperate to be talked off the ledge if only for that one afternoon.

The event’s theme song might well have been “How Do You Solve a Problem Like The Donald?”

Now that Kamala Harris is the presumptive nominee, it is still worth revisiting that event, because it wasn’t so much about Biden as about the other guy. And though Biden’s handoff and Harris’s launch have gone off fairly smoothly and met with tremendous early enthusiasm, the problem of Trump, like a bad case of impetigo, persists.

Panels ranged from the threats to democracy posed by a second Trump administration (who only this week promised "my beautiful Christians" that if they voted him in it would be the last time they'd ever have to vote), to the impact of the Dobbs decision, to voter registration strategies.
Among the speakers: PA State Senator Vincent Hughes, and podcaster and pundit Molly Jong-Fast.

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"Kids Today" Live from the 2024 Secular Student Alliance Conference Jul 20, 2024

Last month, David and Christina attended the annual Secular Student Alliance conference, held this year in sweltering Little Rock, Arkansas.
It's a gathering of college students from campuses around the country seeking community and inspiration. That opportunity is especially important at a time when, being reason-based, one feels increasingly outnumbered.
They presented our “So You Want to Be An Organizer” workshop and conducted a series of run-and-gun interviews, collaring speakers like author Anne Nelson and "The Thinking Atheist" Seth Andrews, as well as student attendees.
What you'll hear from the students may disturb you. The students they spoke with are struggling, trying to calibrate their own moral compasses in a world where morality seems to shift with the tide.
What to make of a world where pious churchgoers worship the anti-Christ, where the "good guy" signs off on arms in support of genocide, and where so many of the lessons they learned in American history class turned out to be deeply biased at best, or just wrong?
You may agree or disagree with what you'll hear, but attention must be paid. Because their vote – or non-vote – may be the difference between keeping our democracy and the end of the American experiment.

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"What in God's Name is Going On?" with Alison Gill Jul 04, 2024

This was an especially nutty week in America. And none of it had to do with a particular televised debate or even the Supreme Court’s ruling on presidential immunity.

This week the state of Louisiana mandated that The Ten Commandments be displayed in every one of its public school classrooms.

In Oklahoma, in the wake of the state’s Supreme Court decision to disallow the establishment of the country’s first publicly-funded religious charter school, Ryan Waters, the state’s education superintendent, issued a requirement that the bible be placed in all public school classrooms.

We parse the immediate and long-term implications of both of these issues with Alison Gill, Vice President for Legal and Policy at American Atheists.

Alison also helps us understand "the Chevron deference” in light of the U.S. Supreme Court’s decision last week in Loper Bright Enterprises v. Raimondo to ignore the expertise of federal agencies in favor of politically-appointed and inexpert judges with their own ideological leanings.
So much to unpack.

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"Engaging the Politically Unengaged" with Kadida Kenner Jun 20, 2024

Kadida Kenner and her organization The New Pennsylvania Project — modeled after Stacy Abrams’ New Georgia Project — is focused on engaging with and registering voters in communities whose doors are rarely knocked. NPP is doing a tremendous job across the Commonwealth, and her insights into the current mindset of voters, particular minority voters 35 and under, is an important one that you should hear. And that, hopefully, will inspired you to get involved.
Links to references from this episode:
https://www.newpaproject.org/npp-team/
https://powerinterfaith.org
https://www.ncjw.org
https://www.pahouse.com/McClinton/
https://radio.foxnews.com/2024/03/28/scott-presler-on-early-voting-amish-voter-impact-and-his-luscious-locks/
https://www.badfaithdocumentary.com
https://whyy.org/articles/jayz-pennsylvania-legislature-private-school-vouchers-jeff-yass/

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"We Of Little Faith" with Kate Cohen and Guest Host Olivia Goudeau Jun 07, 2024

In this special edition of Unreasonable, guest host Olivia Goudeau, national organizing manager of the Secular Student Alliance (SSA), talks to Washington Post columnist and author Kate Cohen about her new book, “We Of Little Faith: Why I Stopped Pretending to Believe (and Maybe You Should Too)."

Neither fit the conservative invention of “angry atheist.” They are both kind and thoughtful women who come from different backgrounds and different generations, yet arrived at a place of peace, able to live happily without the encumbrances of a god or the trappings of Religion.

They talk about their own upbringings, their own belief systems and how they arrived at them. They talk about parenting, having been parented, and the role religion played, or didn’t, in all of it.

In her book, Cohen writes:

If “atheist” is ever going to stop being a scary word — and if “religious” is ever going to stop being a sacred word, a word that short-circuits moral and scientific progress — athesists have to be willing to say in casual conversation that we are atheists.

This is that conversation.

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"Disruptions" with Gabe and Liz Rutan-Ram May 23, 2024

Elizabeth and Gabe Rutan-Ram had fostered numerous children before they decided to adopt one, a child from Florida identified with a disability. If they were a monied couple, they could have gone through a private adoption agency spending $30,000 or more. Instead, and more in keeping with their means, they opted to take their state’s mandatory foster-parent training program and home-study certification through the Holston United Methodist Home for Children, a child-placement agency that receives taxpayer funding from the Tennessee Department of Children’s Services.

Just as they were about to begin their training, however, Liz had a nagging feeling that maybe, before they go too far down this road, they should let Holston know that she and Gabe are Jewish. Immediately they were told they were no longer eligible for Holston’s services, as they do not share the same religious beliefs. (So much for Judeo-Christian values!)
Hear their story on this episode of Unreasonable.

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Live From SRF: Rep. Jared Huffman May 17, 2024

In the House of Representatives there are a handful of secular politicians (some more out than others) who work toward enacting laws uninspired by providence and more by simple reason and innate human morality.

Jared Huffman is a congressman from California. A former Mormon preacher and now self-defined humanist, he co-founded and co-chairs (along with Rep. Jamie Raskin) the Congressional Freethought Caucus, created “to promote sound public policy based on reason, science and moral values, while protecting the secular character of government and championing the value of freedom of thought worldwide.”
We spoke with him in the library of the Lutheran Church of the Reformation across the street from the Capital building, as SRF participants headed out for Hill Day to lobby their representatives.

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Live From SRF: Attorneys Erica Coray and Zach Pekelis May 17, 2024

Erica Coray and Zach Pekelis are attorneys working to limit the deleterious impacts from religious accommodations. Their SRF panel “Past, Present and Upcoming Battles Over Health Mandates and Religious Accommodations” examined the law governing religious exemptions from public health requirements and the impact these cases have on the future of religious exceptionalism in law and society.

They talked to Unreasonable about the real-life threats posed by religious accommodations, the cynical use of the term “deeply held religious beliefs” and how courts are meant to assess a plaintiff’s standing, as well as the sincerity, of their religious-based objections. (Think gay wedding cakes, hypothetical websites, postal workers demanding Sunday off and football coaches making 50-yard line public spectacles of their personally held religious beliefs.)

Most timely, we get into the current Supreme Court battle argued by Erin Hawley (a former clerk for Justice Roberts who now works for the Alliance Defending Freedom, a powerful conservative Christian legal group, and the wife of insurrectionist Sen. Josh Hawley ) regarding access of the abortion pill Mifepristone.

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Live From SRF: Erin Reed May 11, 2024

Erin Reed is a transgender woman, public speaker, journalist and activist who tracks anti-LGBTQ+ legislation around the world, tirelessly reporting on issues concerning the trans community. Her immensely influential TikTok account has over 445,000 followers and her daily Substack, Erin In The Morning, has more than 54,000 subscribers.
On twitter alone, her works has been viewed over 250 million times. That’s reach.
All told, her content has been viewed hundreds of millions of times with one goal: “to achieve gender justice for queer and marginalized people through education and understanding.”

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Live From SRF: Brandon Wolf May 11, 2024

On June 12, 2016, life changed for Brandon Wolf. He crouched in a bathroom while a gunman opened fire at Orlando’s Pulse Nightclub, killing his best friends, Drew Leinonen & Juan Guerrero, and 47 others.
Rather than be swallowed by the anger and fear of tragedy, Brandon set out to honor the victims’ legacies with action.
In the immediate aftermath of the shooting, Brandon co-founded The Dru Project, a nonprofit organization that works to empower youth and provide future leaders in the LGBTQ community funding for higher education. To date, the organization has given over $150,000 in college scholarships to rising leaders.
He also became an outspoken activist in the gun violence prevention movement, partnering with March For Our Lives, Everytown, Giffords, and others to demand legislative solutions to the epidemic. In 2019, he became the first survivor of the tragedy at Pulse Nightclub to testify before Congress.
Today, Brandon is a nationally-recognized gun safety and LGBTQ civil rights advocate and dynamic public speaker. He currently serves as National Press Secretary for the Human Rights Campaign, the nation’s largest LGBTQ+ civil rights organization.
He is the author of the memoir, "A Place for Us."

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Episode Twenty-five: "Live From SRF" with Todd Stiefel May 10, 2024

By his own definition, Todd Stiefel is weathly. He just is. That’s not a judgment, just a fact. When his family business was sold and the non-compete clause kicked in, he was left financially secure and without a career. His years of preparation to lead the company were rendered unnecessary. One day he was Chief Strategy Officer of Stiefel Laboratories. Next, he’s searching for ways to protect, and make the best use of, his windfall.
He created the Stiefel Freethought Foundation, whose mission is to “secure humanity’s future by ensuring public policy decisions are based on love and reason rather than bias and dogma.” He has gifted over $8.7 million to charitable causes, including $7.7 million dollars to nonprofit organizations in the secular movement.
We met Stiefel at the Summit for Religous Freedom in April. This interview follows up on a screening of the new documentary, "Bad Faith," (Stiefel is an executive producer) that closed out the event.

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Life From SRF: Tim Whitaker May 04, 2024

Tim Whitaker is a true believer. The creator and facilitator of The New Evangelicals podcast, Tim advocates for the marginalized within the church, exploring the full depth and breadth of Christian faith traditions, and seeks to hold toxic churches and their leaders accountable.
So if you’re appalled by watching the America you thought you knew violently shapeshift into an authoritarian theocracy, imagine what it’s like for those who have a completely different understanding of religion — a progressive one — witness the debasing of their country at the hands of those cravenly reinterpreting the sacred tenets of their faith.
In an age of Christian cosplay, The New Evangelicals seek to reclaim the evangelical tradition by embracing Christ-like values like inclusivity, diversity, and respectfulness.
The New Evangelicals “advocate for a restored church that recognizes the imago dei in others, and does not dehumanize anyone in their journey.”
Imagine that.

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Life From SRF: Dr. Anthea Butler May 04, 2024

Dr. Anthea Butler is Geraldine R. Segal Professor in American Social Thought, and chair of the department of Religious Studies at the University of Pennsylvania.
A historian of African American and American religion, her research and writing spans African American religion and history, Nationalism, race, politics, Evangelicalism, gender and sexuality, media, and popular culture.
She is an opinion writer for MSNBC, and her articles have been featured in the New York Times, The Washington Post, CNN, NBC, and The Guardian.
Dr. Butler is also the author of “White Evangelical Racism: The Politics of Morality in America.”
So with that portfolio, you might find be suprised to learn that she has some thoughts on our current religio-political moment.

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Live From SRF: Rep. Jamie Raskin Apr 27, 2024

We're going to assume that if you're listening to this, Jamie Raskin needs no introduction.
He's an icon among progressives and the secular movement. He co-chairs the Congressional Freethought Caucus with Rep. Jared Huffman from California.
Even if you're not especially politically engaged, you couldn't have missed him as a forceful and learned voice for justice during the criminal investigation into J6.
Prior to his political career, he was a professor of constitutional law at American University. He's the author of several books, including the must-read "Unthinkable: Trauma, Truth, and the Trials of American Democracy," which tracks the simultaneity of his own personal tragedy with the political convulsions surrounding the 2020 presidential election.

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Live From SRF: Ani Zonneveld Apr 27, 2024

Ani Zonneveld is a writer, singer/songwriter, and founder and president of Muslims for Progressive Values (MPV), an international human rights organization that advocates for social justice and equality for all, and supports freedom of expression and of conscience, women’s rights and, as an ally, LGBTQ rights.
She spoke with Unreasonable about the false narratives around Islam, the religion's view on abortion, America's equivalent to the Taliban, and her message of social justice and peace from a progressive Muslim woman’s perspective.

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"Field Team 6" with Jason Berlin Apr 26, 2024

Like just about everyone we know, Jason Berlin woke up one morning in November 2016 and realized he had to change his life.

Being a writer for a reality comedy TV show was all fun and games. But real life had taken a dark turn with the election of a new president who, let’s just say, was not Hillary Clinton.

He became an activist. And now, his grassroots organization, Field Team 6, is a political powerhouse, registering new voters around the country.
Their slogan is "Register Democrats. Save The World." Jason and FT6 are doing their part. Listen and learn how you can join them.

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Live From SRF: Rachel Laser Apr 20, 2024

LIVE FROM SRF is a new limited series from Unreasonable, recorded at the 2024 Summit for Religious Freedom in Washington, D.C., April 13-16.
We kick off the series with the event's host, Rachel Laser, Americans United for Separation of Church and State’s formidable president and CEO. In this conversation she sets the tone for the amazing and illuminating conversations coming your way by describing the political landscape, the measures AU is taking against religious intrusions on our secular democracy, and the organization’s ambitious plans for the future.

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"Secular Ground Game, Part 1" with Wil Jeudy (Texas) and Devon Graham (Florida) Apr 11, 2024

With this episode, we begin a four-part series focused on those individuals and groups around the country who are leading the secular ground game. Some are facing tsunamis of resistance. Others are making headway. But the brighter the light on their efforts the easier to find and join them.
You can contribute to their work, get your hands dirty, hit the streets. work alongside them toward the world we all wish to see.
But first you have to know who they are.
In upcoming episodes we'll focus on Michigan and Wisconsin, Arizona and Nevada, and Georgia and North Carolina.
Let's start at Ground Zero: Florida and Texas.

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"The Politics of Youth" with Jahnavi Rao Mar 29, 2024

What if young people took their collective future into their own hands, cultivated and supported their own candidates, rather than relying on the elders who appear increasingly out-of-touch with their concerns and will inevitably disappoint them?

That sounds promising, until you discover the incredibly low voter registration rates among high schoolers arriving at the age that was once considered a major milestone: voting in your first election.

Culture warriors have made it so that the simplest civics lesson is contested, reducing that awareness, and many teachers watch their words out of fear of being accused of “indoctrination.” Who really knows what these kids are being taught?

Jahnavi Rao knows. At 16, the now 23-year-old Harvard grad founded New Voters, and held her first voter registration drive amongst her fellow high schoolers in Berwyn, PA. Since then, over 300 volunteers have registered more than 80,000 young voters across 39 states, thanks to New Voters.

In this conversation, Jahnavi provides insight to a demographic we think we know, but probably don’t. It turns out that Gen Zs are more than their characterization as smartphone ostriches, buried in their curated virtual worlds as the real world conspires against them.
The kids are alright. And it’s their turn to lead.

Please share this conversation with the young people in your life. It’s an important message. But it's better if they hear it from her.

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"The Religion Clauses" with Dean Erwin Chemerinsky Mar 15, 2024

David and Christina talk to one of the country’s leading lights in the area of American constitutional law and dean of Berkeley Law, about the various interpretations of the First Amendment’s two religion clauses; freedom of speech in the age of artificial intelligence and political deep-fakes; staying positive and vigilant even as an overreaching Supreme Court undermines the constitution it is sworn to uphold; judicial term limits and expansion of the Court; the electoral college, even where Chemerinsky and Antonin Scalia find common ground.

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Unreasonable Coffee 3/9/24 Mar 09, 2024

To help us better understand our Christian brethren, and how to build alliances between people of faith and those who are perfectly good without a god, we invited into the studio someone whose name is mentioned frequently on the podcast, usually preceded by the phrase “devout Christian”: David’s wife Kaitlyn Waterson.

Where do this couple, an atheist and “devout Christian” find common ground? Religiously polar opposites, where do their politics intersect? What do those kitchen table conversations sound like and are there lessons to be learned there?

In the final Unreasonable Coffee before the launch of Season Two on March 15, Christina pivots from election guru to marriage counselor, in this fascinating conversation with David and Kaitlyn.

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Unreasonable Coffee 3/2/24 Mar 02, 2024

This week's Unreasonable Coffee is served steaming hot! Christina is so pissed off she needs a dose of David's hopium to cool her off.
Her ire is focused on the Supreme Court’s brazen disingenuousness over their backtracking on whether to hear the case for and against presidential immunity. At first, they punted to the Circuit Court. When that ruling didn’t go their way, they elected to receive. How will that decision impact the election?
Plus, is the right's "firehose of bullshit" wearing us down?
That, and more...

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Unreasonable Coffee 2/24/24 Feb 24, 2024

On this week's Unreasonable Coffee, David and Christina bring their hot takes to the extra-uterine children of Alabama, Tom Suozzi's winning strategy, eau de Trump, and why we brewed this Coffee just too damn early in the day.

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Unreasonable Coffee 2/17/24 Feb 17, 2024

This time, David and Christina review the week’s special elections in New York and Pennsylvania; coming of age in the age of internet disinformation; Chris Ullery’s reporting on the Central Bucks school board member; David’s UUism and progressive allies in faith; religious and political Super Bowl ads.

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Unreasonable Coffee 2/10/24 Feb 10, 2024

Over this week’s cuppa, David and Christina discuss the Independent State Legislature Theory in light of the just-concluded SCOTUS arguments regarding Colorado’s assertion that the 14th Amendment empowers the state to remove certain individuals from its primary ballot; Breaching the Mainstream project by the Institute for Research and Education on Human Rights; a case for open primaries; the latest NAR-cissistic doublespeak coming from C. Peter Wagner-anointed “apostle” Lance Wallnau; a win against Project Veritas; the disbanding of Moms for Liberty in Lehigh County; and an introduction to Conservapedia, the alt-fact reference site.

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Unreasonable Coffee 2/3/24 Feb 03, 2024

This week on Unreasonable Coffee, David and Christina wonk out on political fatigue, the endorsement process, the problem of judicial retention, as well as Turning Point USA crazy talk, a win for The Satanic Temple, and whether Taylor and Travis are psyops.

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Unreasonable Coffee 1/27/24 Jan 27, 2024

During our hiatus, David and Christina engage in a series of mid-season one-on-one conversations analyzing the latest news, offering tools for engagement and serving up reasons for optimism. This week, they discuss a bill allowing the National Prayer Breakfast to be held in the Capital Rotunda, making faith-nonfaith marriages work, candidate vetting, the less-obvious value of lobbying, the work Wil Jeudy and Secular Houston are doing on the ground in Texas, tools for growing a secular electorate, and the positivity of pluralism.
Season Two of Unreasonable starts March 15!

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Unreasonable Coffee 1/19/24 Jan 19, 2024

During our hiatus, Unreasonable is gearing up for what will be an extremely active year. But between now and March 15, David and Christina will engage in a series of mid-season one-on-one conversations analyzing the latest news, issue calls to action and, as is their wont, share reasons for optimism. This week, they consider the results of the Iowa caucuses, conservative campaigns courting the Jewish vote in light of the Israel/Hamas war, and whether Democrats have been complicit in normalizing the extremism of Republican candidates.

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"Courting Disaster" with Andrew Seidel Dec 22, 2023

As a constitutional lawyer, Andrew Seidel has fought on the front lines in the battle to protect and preserve the separation of church and state.

He’s written two books on the scourge of Christian Nationalism: “The Founding Myth” provides a detailed history of the false notion that America was founded as a Christian nation, how the myth began and who’s perpetuating it today.

“American Crusade” focuses on how Christian Nationalists have won incremental battles in the courts for over 50 years leading to foundational changes in our country, from deciding elections to the reversal of Roe, book bans, the legal erasure of Black history, public funding for religious institutions, an insurrection, and the theocratical activism of our Supreme Court.
He is a ubiquitous presence on social media, and his TikToks go viral. This may sound superficial, but his warnings are resonating with younger audiences. He’s found a way to communicate arcane constitutional issues in ways everyone can understand.
All of this makes Andrew Seidel the perfect guest to help us close out Season One of “Unreasonable: Church, State and the American Divide.”

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"Secular Public Service" with Rep. Chris Rabb Dec 08, 2023

Pennsylvania State Representative Chris Rabb represents the 200th district of Philadelphia County, which includes, as he calls it, The People's Republic of Mount Airy. He is also non-religious and is proudly open about it. We talked to RepRabb about politics, religion, and why the twain should never meet. This one is fast and furious and 100% on point!

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"The Family" with Jonathan Larsen Nov 24, 2023

Since Eisenhower, every American president has attended something called the National Prayer Breakfast, hosted by a mysterious and amorphous group called the Fellowship Foundation, or more familiarly, The Family.
The Family’s focus, according to our guest, journalist Jonathan Larsen, is to “pursue relationships with people in power and use those relationships to pursue relationships with people in power. Jesus plus nothing. In contrast to the sort of traditional, stereotypical Jesus image of helping the poor, washing the feet of lepers, [The Family] is very much is focused on people in power.”
And through those people in power they can influence policy according to their biblical interpretations. Fast forward to Mike Johnson.

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"Hopium Addiction" with Simon Rosenberg Nov 10, 2023

In the lead-up to the 2022 midterms, pollsters uniformly predicted a red wave. This seemed a harmless prediction as our fickle American electorate often engages in buyer’s remorse a mere two years after a presidential election. But what actually happened was the exact opposite of that polling. While not exactly a blue wave, Democrats performed well enough for the election to be considered not just an upset but a full-throated rejection of MAGA.

How did the pollsters get it so wrong?

And how did Simon Rosenberg get it so right?
In this episode, we talk to the long-time Democratic strategist and creator of Hopium Chronicles about his lonely prediction of a blue surge, the difference between quantifiable data and opinion polls, why progressives have been so successful over the last three elections, and what we all need to do to keep our democracy out of the hands of right-wing wackos moving forward. Hopium = Hope with a Plan. Let's do this!

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"Some Scary Shit" with Team Unreasonable Oct 27, 2023

Since Unreasonable began, we’ve heard of horrifying tales, from the dark money fueling our far-right SCOTUS to the religious impositions on our personal healthcare choices, to the history, mobilization and impact of White Christian Nationalists literally praying for Armageddon.

In observance of Halloween — Unreasonable’s highest and holiest of days — we’re revisiting some of our scariest moments and reflecting on what they mean for our future.

Enter. If you dare…

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"Carlisle Indian Boarding School" with Gwen Leaffe Carr Oct 13, 2023

“How do you expect this country to ever be anything but in turmoil?”

This is the rhetorical question posed by our guest, Gwen Leaffe Carr, executive director of the Carlisle Indian School Project.

A relatively unknown chapter in the ongoing tragedy of America’s Native people is the one about the boarding schools designed to erase them. Or, in the words of their architect, Lt. Col. Richard Henry Pratt, to “kill the Indian in him, and save the man."

This episode of Unreasonable is dedicated to all those who suffered the indignity of these schools, to those who died there, and to those who survived.

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"The Assault on Public Education" Live from Widener University Sep 29, 2023

When we give up on our students, especially those in public schools, we relinquish our collective responsibility as stewards of a thriving democracy. After all, knowledge is power. And in a democracy, knowledge is also a birthright. Defunding our public schools, demonizing public school teachers, diverting public funding to private and religious institutions, deprives our kids — soon to be adults — of that power, and assigns to them less than first-class citizenship.
To some highly-motivated (and well-funded) members of American society, that’s precisely what would make America great again. Thus, from local school boards to the highest court in the land, public education is under attack.
What’s happening on the ground and in the courts, and what can we all do moving forward, to prevent a theocratic takeover of our secular schools?
In our special Back To School episode we talk with Liz Cavell (Staff/Board member of the Freedom from Religion Foundation and co-host of the “We Dissent” podcast); Dan Mach (Director, ACLU Program on Freedom of Religion and Belief); and, for a local perspective, Chris Ullery, Extremism and Social Justice Reporter for the USA Today Network in PA).

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"The Conversion of the Jews" with Paul Golin Sep 13, 2023

On the eve of Rosh Hashanah we talk with Paul Golin, executive director of the Society for Humanistic Judaism, an organization which promotes the concept of being Jewish absent a belief in God.
But as with so much of Judaism, it's not that simple. Jews and their history are laden with baggage.
For starters, is it a religion, a race, an ethnicity or a culture?
Are Jews obligated to adhere strictly to biblical scripture or read the Talmud for interpretive guidance?
Is marrying outside the faith a betrayal of those who died in the Holocaust?
Is it even possible to be a Jew without God?
Does being sympathetic to the Palestinian cause make you anti-Jewish? Does anti-Zionism equate with anti-semitism? If so, what are we to make of Jewish anti-Zionists?
That's a lot to unpack. But we dive in. On this episode of Unreasonable.

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"No Joke" with Pete Dominick Aug 31, 2023

Sometimes you don't know whether to laugh or cry.

On the one hand, a typical Donald Trump speech is comedy gold. No sentient human actually speaks like that, and the words, not to mention the syntax, are often a spew of laughable preposterousness. (Alec Baldwin was good, but nowhere near as hilarious as the original!) Still, he has an audience that takes him straight, no irony.
And then they act out on those words. And then, as a democracy, we want to cry.
But as each of our guests have demonstrated, we can cry, or we can do something. For nearly 20 years, comedian and activist Pete Dominick has brought his political activism to the airwaves, first on Sirius Satellite Radio (later Sirius XM) and now on his immensely popular daily podcast "Stand Up with Pete Dominick."
We invited Pete to join us on Unreasonable because, frankly, we needed a good laugh. And he delivered. And, like any good social commentator, he left us with plenty to think about, too, from politics to parenting.

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"The Satanic Temple" with Lucien Greaves Aug 17, 2023

While some politicians — who had never given a thought to God or Christianity or had ever committed an act of forgiveness or charity toward others that anyone could recall — were disingenuously embracing Jesus for their own craven ends, others were working across multiple, nonviolent, nontheistic, and legal approaches to protect children, fight on behalf of women’s bodily autonomy, and litigate to restore true religious freedom and equality for all Americans, regardless of their belief system.
By their iconography, you might not recognize that these people, under the banner of Satanism, are actually the ones doing God’s work.

Lucien Greaves is the co-founder of The Satanic Temple, whose mission is “to encourage benevolence and empathy, reject tyrannical authority, advocate practical common sense, oppose injustice, and undertake noble pursuits.”
Sounds good to us.

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"Charismatic Revival Fury" with Matthew D. Taylor Aug 03, 2023

The New Apostolic Reformation is a loose network of independent congregations untethered by the dogmas of traditional denominations and many of their leaders, or self-anointed “apostles,” make claims so outlandish you wonder how anyone in their right mind would believe them. NAR was also a primary driver of J6.

Never heard of NAR? You need to, because its membership and belief system – as crazy as it will sound to you – is alive and viral in the halls of Congress and local governments. And the acceptance of this religious movement, invented only a couple of decades ago, is metastasizing not just here but around the world, into the hundreds of millions.
There’s a fine line between harmless, deeply held religious belief, and certifiable madness. At the top of this episode, you will hear an audio clip by a Florida NAR pastor who uses the violent language of the Gospel to call for Joe Biden’s beheading. As Dr. Taylor points out, “they walk right up to that line. But they definitely know where the line is in order to be protected by the First Amendment.”
Become aware of the horrifying world of the New Apostolic Reformation. Because it just might be the world we all inhabit after November 5th, 2024.

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"Money for Humanists" with Ron Millar Jul 20, 2023

How did the faux “grassroots” organization Moms For Liberty metastasize in just a few years to attract hundred of followers, as well as extremist presidential candidates, to their summit in Philadelphia last month? Money. Crazy money.
We know about Barre Said, we know about Leonard Leo and the Federalist Society. There are plenty of deep-pocketed dark-money sources we don't know about. So where’s our money? Who’s funding our movement in support of the secular nation our founders intended? We’re living under the tyranny of the minority because the minority are willing to spend whatever they have to reduce our country to a superstitious backwater nation.
As it turns out, there are lots of secular folks who are putting their money where their values are, but you have to know where to look. We looked no farther than the American Humanist Association. Never heard of them? Well, you should. Their PAC, the Center for Freethought Equality, identifies and supports secular candidates. And that's key to preserving our democracy. They don’t have a lot of money, but what they have often seeds successful campaigns.
Ron Millar runs the PAC. His professional life has been dedicated to supporting progressive movements, and we’re delighted to share our conversation with him about how progressives can counter the billions conservatives pour into political races, on this episode of Unreasonable.

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"What Are They Thinking?" with Bradley Onishi Jul 06, 2023

What if there was a war on but you didn't know it? And what if you were the enemy?
The White Christian Nationalist movement in America is weaponizing. And they're using scripture to justify violence in the service of Jesus. After all, when you believe that America was founded as a Christian nation and all who identify as anything but are criminal trespassers, rapists and pedophiles -- coming for your children!) -- taking up arms seems like the only rational thing to do.
Sounds crazy, though, right?
Bradley Onishi lived in that world. A one-time evangelical preacher, he's a religion scholar, author, and co-host of the Straight White American Jesus podcast. We talked with Brad about the origins of Christian Nationalism in America, its evolution over the past 50 years, its embodiment in today's GOP, and how to battle back...if that's even possible.

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BONUS: "Christina's World" Jun 22, 2023

David talks to Christina about her Catholic upbringing, her mother's premature death, and her atheism.

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"Dying While Atheist" with Dave Warnock Jun 22, 2023

What would you do if you knew your days were numbered?

In 2019 Dave Warnock, one-time charismatic evangelical preacher now-atheist, was diagnosed with Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis. ALS is a fatal condition, and with his diagnosis Dave had a choice to make: live out the rest of his life quietly waiting to die, or “live out loud.” That meant speaking publicly about his spiritual deconstruction, his disease, and dying without a belief in a god or an afterlife.

Trigger warning: this conversation speaks frankly about death. We are grateful for the opportunity to share Dave’s story with you, and for the time he gave us for this interview that we promise will move and challenge you.

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"Who Is Thomas Paine?" with Margaret Downey Jun 08, 2023

Happy Thomas Paine Day! June 8, also known as Freethinkers Day, celebrates one of leading lights of the American Revolution that hardly anyone knows anything about.
His writings ignited our independence; laid out the structure for a new democracy; articulated the rights of all men and women, young and old; envisioned the safety net we now call Social Security; decried slavery and, above all, called for a separation of church and state. A deist himself, he understood that although religious devotion is a right, it should have no influence on the body politic.
It’s time America gave Thomas Paine his due. David and Christina learn all about who Thomas Paine was, and why his work is more relevant today than ever before, as they speak with Margaret Downey, founder of the Thomas Paine Memorial Association.

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"The Gospel According to Naomi" with Rev. Naomi Washington-Leapheart: Part 2 Jun 01, 2023

In Part Two of this frank, fearless and provocative conversation, Rev. Naomi addresses topics ranging from blind faith, literal readings of the gospel, and the falacy of religious unity, to the demise of Christian progressivism, advice for secular candidates seeking to appeal to traditional Black congregations, and what inspires her, despite everything, to "keep showing up."

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"The Gospel According to Naomi" with Rev. Naomi Washington-Leapheart: Part 1 May 25, 2023

The Christian bible is filled with contradictions, its text contested even among adherents. With so much of “the gospel” in question, where does one’s faith come from? David and Christina explore the meaning of faith, the state of American Christianity, and the separation of church and state with Rev. Naomi Washington-Leapheart. This is the first of two parts.

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"Secular Student Alliance" with Kevin Bolling May 11, 2023

Calling All Secular High School and College Activists! For over two decades, the Secular Student Alliance has empowered secular students to proudly express their identity, build welcoming communities, promote secular values, and set a course for lifelong activism. The SSA provides scholarships and their national conference is coming up in June. Executive Director Kevin Bolling tells us all about it.

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"The Secular Strategy" with Sarah Levin May 11, 2023

So what do we do when the party that generally embraces secular values like bodily autonomy, democracy, and science, demonstrates an abject disinterest in its secular voters, despite representing a huge voting bloc? Could this be the biggest miscalculation in the Democratic party's strategy? Do we even have a strategy? Okay, that's a lot of questions. We talk with Sarah Levin, founder of Secular Strategies, seeking answers.

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"Tenacious" with Rob Boston Apr 27, 2023

When you consider how many laws and exemptions accommodate Christian Nationalists, and the militancy with which they fight to impose their extremist vision of America – from White supremacy to homophobia to vicious attacks on women’s healthcare – it’s not a stretch to see the battle lost. Thankfully, we have organizations like Americans United for Separation of Church and State litigating and lobbying on behalf of all American citizens of all beliefs.
At their Summit for Religious Freedom last weekend in Washington, DC, hundreds gathered (including the entire Unreasonable team!), from faith leaders to atheists, from college-aged to seasoned activists, all working on the front lines to save our country from going the way of full-on theocracy. AU's senior advisor Rob Boston recaps the event with us.

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"The Holy War Inside the US Military" with Mikey Weinstein Apr 13, 2023

For nearly 20 years, the Military Religious Freedom Foundation has been on the front lines of calling out and litigating Christian Nationalism and religious indoctrination in the U.S. military. David and Christina talk to its founder, Mikey Weinstein, and his report from the field clearly illustrates America’s strong-armed bend towards theocracy. “It’s not a problem or an issue or a challenge,” he says. “It’s a national security threat.”

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"Following the Dark Money" with Nina Burleigh Mar 30, 2023

David and Christina go deep diving into the dark money world of Christian Nationalism and right-wing extremism, with journalist and best-selling author, Nina Burleigh.

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Pilot: Unreasonable's Origin Story Mar 16, 2023

In our launch episode, David and Christina (and special guest, Bennett!) lay the groundwork for what’s to come. A deep dive into the role faith plays in politics, a shallow dive into our personalities, and a primer on what to expect in episodes to come. Added bonus: this week’s to-do.

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