Show notes
Listen in and Paul discuss the activities of the past few days in a troubled America TRANSCRIPT: 2Guys_P&C Racism_050120 [00:00:00] Two Guys Open: [00:00:00] This is the two guys talkin’ Fresno podcast. The podcast with two guys talking about Fresno. Your hosts are Craig Scharton, a lifelong Fresno who loves his community, even though it drives him bonkers and Paul Swearengin, a transplant Fresnan, who’s lived in Fresno for more years than he hasn’t and he wouldn’t live anywhere else. It’s time for two guys to talk. Fresno. Here’s Craig and Paul on the two guys talking Fresno podcast, Craig Scharton: [00:00:29] Smooth Operator! Paul Swearengin: [00:00:34] we should call it the shirt. Two old guys trying to manage technology. Let’s do the show. Craig Scharton: [00:00:39] All right. So Paul Swearengin: [00:00:42] yeah. Craig Scharton: [00:00:44] What a week it’s been, do Paul Swearengin: [00:00:46] we have anything to talk about? Craig Scharton: [00:00:48] yeah, the entire world looks like it is coming apart at the scenes. Paul Swearengin: [00:00:53] And I wonder if that’s true or if just our reactions to everything are coming apart at the seams. [00:01:00] Craig Scharton: [00:01:00] Yeah. Well, I don’t know that we are boys in a real, a unifying place for all of this to begin. Paul Swearengin: [00:01:07] Well, the good news is we have a unifying president who will bring us all together in a very calm, calculated thought through way. Oh, is that, is that not the, not the case? Yeah. How about that? How about looting and shooting is where you go on the night as president of the United States as is this is going on and like I said, a very calming influence at the top of it all. In our country. And so we’re all good. Craig Scharton: [00:01:35] Yeah. Well, so, what kind of reflection have you been doing over the last week? Paul Swearengin: [00:01:40] I’ve been reflecting on for quite some time on what is my role in systemic racism in America? have, have I done everything I can to be aware of where I’m a part of it aware of where I can, can engage to be a part of [00:02:00] ending it. And so I woke up really after the event at Miguel res his apartment. And said, okay. I, I, I can’t be silent about issues that are so heavy on my heart. And then when I saw the George Floyd video, I was just like, okay, I, I have to do everything in my power to end this because this is a mindset. What I see there. And, and I think we, we, if we give ourselves the break of saying, well, that was a bad cop, doing a bad thing with three bad cops around him. I give myself permission to not question where I am and where we are as a culture. And it may very well be that that’s a seriously racist cop that had his neck on his is me on George Ford’s neck. But I think as much, he’s probably a product of a system in our country that sort of tells [00:03:00] ourselves there is a group of people that are a little different than the rest of us. And when dealing with. Those people, we have to deal with them differently. And I don’t think, I think many of us would say overtly, we don’t do that. I, you know, the, I have black friends, I have Hispanic friends. I’m good to them. They’re just people to me, but there’s. There’s something in our system that sort of says, there’s a group of people who are just a little bit different and have to be treated just a little bit different. And then if you’re particularly, if you’re a cop and you’re dealing with. High stress situations on an ongoing basis, having to make very difficult decisions and, and you low grade have this belief system already because you just live in it like we all do. And then there’s some training about, well, when confronted in a particular way, you have to respond in a particular way. It sets us up for these types of moments. And I think if we don’t. [00:04:00] Take this opportunity and this season to say, okay, I’m going to lean into the truth of that and, and see where I fit into that. Then we just set ourselves up to continue to have these over and over again. And so bottom line, and then I’ll shut up is I think we all are asking why does this keep happening? And when I’m training somebody on emotional health, I’m saying, whenever, you’re saying, why does this keep happening to me? You are the common denominator in all of those situations. And you have to start to think, is there an underlying root cause? And, and so I think we just can’t say, man, there’s another bad cop that we have to deal with. No, instead is there’s a system that’s, that’s impacting us all on an ongoing basis. So these things keep happening again until we confront it, recognize it, acknowledge it and dig through it. We’re going to continue to see these events. Craig Scharton: [00:04:51] Yeah, well, and I think, I think it is, both us, the stomach problem and something that we all can individually [00:05:00] challenge ourselves at. Right. I, I’ve never really been a person that really cared about anyone’s gender or sexual orientation or race. I mean, it’s never. Seemed interesting to me to care about people that way. or I guess other people would say I don’t give a flying whatever, vague. Thank you. That’s a good precedent way to put it. And I, I really think it’s, it’s boring to view the world through that lens, but I know that we can always do better and we can always think about things, you know, As change happens differently and more sympathetically than we ever were comfortable doing before. So just constantly pushing, but you know, that’s should be all of our goal is hopefully would be to continually become more conscious beings, in all aspects of our life. And this seems [00:06:00] like a particularly should be a baseline, thing that we’re working on. But. so there’s that one thing to me about, you know, I can’t change anyone else. It doesn’t mean you don’t stand up to wrong when you see it or hear it. but I also know that if I work on changing myself to become better, that’s the one person that I have some minor amount of direct control over. but then the systemic issue is just the one that. You know, it just, you know, my fear is that this happens and that we still don’t do more to change and more to make things more equitable for our people to have opportunity. And, and that we just keep going through these, these spasms without any without, well, I shouldn’t say without any change, but it’s not enough change that to really make this an equitable city state country. Paul Swearengin: [00:06:57] Yeah. Craig Scharton: [00:06:59] And I also don’t [00:07:00] know what, if we have a clear goal to find. So if you don’t have a clear target, it’s hard to, it’s hard to know where you’re headed. Right? Right. There’s an S all of sports is about finding a way to, to have aim at a goal or a wall or a wa whatever it is, bowling pin, you know, whatever that is. And I just think we need to have a really clear goal that we can all buy into. Which Paul Swearengin: [00:07:33] one would that be? Craig Scharton: [00:07:35] To me it’s always been, you know, if you look at like the city to say, Fresno’s, you know, our goal, our vision, whatever you want to call it, our mission is to create a community where everyone has the greatest opportunity, real opportunity to become their best self or. Achieve their highest goal or be the best person. They can be like fill in your own language that way. [00:08:00] And if you look at the statistics and say, does every kid born in Fresno have an equal real shot at becoming the best person they can be? You would say, well, according to these statistics, there are people in certain neighborhoods, but. Are not achieving that goal. There are people of certain ethnic backgrounds that are not achieving that goal. There are people with, socioeconomic challenges that aren’t achieving that goal. So to make that goal a reality, you could actually measure some things to show that we’re making progress toward that goal. And that would feel more that feels, I mean, Yes, protest. Yes. Show outrage at an injustice then, but ultimately finding ways to fix, fix the system so that it is more equitable. Shouldn’t be the real goal Paul Swearengin: [00:08:59] of [00:09:00] fixing. Did I just flip my camera around? Did you see that? No, I didn’t see that. Well now it’s my sign. Can you read it straight or is it going backwards? Craig Scharton: [00:09:09] No, it’s going straight. Paul Swearengin: [00:09:10] Okay. Look at that anyway. Sorry to interrupt there, but, I think you’re right. And so I I’ve been grieving some, and I, I think we’re in a, a really important season because I’ve been asking myself for years. If, if I was at Selma bridge, you know what? I walk across with Martin Luther RiNo, doctor dr. King. Or would I have chosen the comfort of my living room while it was going on. And I think in some ways, and this is clearly not the same situation and I don’t want to overplay or underplay anything, but I do think it’s a season where we get to decide if we’re willing to stand up or not. And so part of what I’ve been grieving is watching social [00:10:00] media, seeing people that I know. Taking the way out, I think. And what I mean by taking the way out is if, if we look at the protests and we say, ah, look at the thugs who are out there, looting and stealing. And I think we give ourselves an out. To hear the message of the protestors. And, and so I had, you know, guys on, on Twitter the other night here trying to you’re showing me video of a building on fire. Okay. Now, are you going to call them thugs, Paul? Now, are you going to call them thugs or, or, you know, another video of some other occurrence now, are you going to call them thugs and, and trying to pin me in a place to say, okay, well, those guys are thugs. Because I think the danger is if we’re not willing to live, live in the mess of what’s happening. And I, and I’m not in no way endorsing. And I think everybody knows, I shouldn’t even have to stop saying no way, endorsing throwing something through the window at a [00:11:00] target and stealing a TV. But if we allow those. Things to get, get a distraction of the ongoing narrative of, Hey, these are people who feel a sense of injustice for centuries and just haven’t had a voice to be able to voice it. And so they’re out and sometimes that’s going to get messy for us. Then we’re going to miss the opportunity that’s at hand. And in some ways I believe we’re taking the out and saying, you know, dr. King, just wait a little while longer. It’s going to be okay. It’s going to work out. W two, which Martin Luther King says, Hey, it’s the white moderates that really disappoint me. I’m I, I thought they would come to our aid. So I do think it’s a day where people like you and me, Craig, and I know your background is different than mine, but who have some space of privilege and culture to stand up and speak out and say, I’m going to sit with those people. Be counted with them, even if it costs me. [00:12:00] My reputation or, or something else. And that’s really what, as I’ve talked with my friends, from communities of color, that’s what they’re asking is like, just speak out on our behalf because there are people that are going to hear you that won’t hear us. And so really that’s what I’m trying to do. Craig Scharton: [00:12:17] Yeah. What something, you know, it’s funny. Cause we were, we were where we in a lope Twitter war and someone. Called, bigots or something like that. Paul Swearengin: [00:12:27] Two white guys talking Fresno. Was that the new name of the show? Craig Scharton: [00:12:31] Yeah. and it was, it was another white guy calling us bigots, which is interesting. you know, I, I honestly, I try to live a life of. Of being kind to people, your camera just went off. Paul Swearengin: [00:12:47] Yeah, that was, that was me. I’m still hearing. Craig Scharton: [00:12:50] And, and just, you know, I try to, I’m trying to learn how to love everyone, even people I disagree with and think they’re wrong. You know, we’re trying [00:13:00] to have a show where we. Model civil discourse, even with people that we might agree with 10 or 20% or 30% disagree, the other, what we still manage to hold conversation. We tried to include a variety of perspectives or community. I mean, I, I, I know we can always do better, but I also try really hard. so. You know, I, I do think we stand up to injustice when we see it. That’s, that’s something that we’re called to do. I think, you know, you always go back to the, to the, second world war and, and Nazi Germany and people had to stand up and you probably were going to pay the price for standing up. But the same is true of the first, first nations people that were here, before, you know, our country got discovered. and the reservations and the Japanese internment camps and slavery and, [00:14:00] and the list goes on and on and on. but you know, I, I, I want to challenge me, but also everyone else to look beyond, you know, whatever tribe we’re in, liberal, conservative, ethnic, you know, one thing when I hear people from, from the race who was at the wrong at the bad end of genocide, Wanting us to remember their genocide. And I think there are genocides happening all over the world right now. And not one genocide was bad. They’re all bad. You know, injustice is bad everywhere. So how do we stand up to that and start breaking down those walls and in calling it out when we see it and really trying to make this systemic change. Paul Swearengin: [00:14:48] And it does, it starts with me, you know, and it starts with me refusing to be tone deaf. And, and this has been a learning experience for me really in the last couple [00:15:00] of years. And I’m embarrassed to say that, that it hasn’t been something that registered with me enough in the past. And so as this stuff is all coming down, talking to a friend of mine who, a young adult woman that works with. Mostly his Hispanic, young men and women. She says, she says to me, and to my wife, you know, you you’ve got people and maybe she said white people. I don’t know. Let’s, let’s, let’s not be afraid of difficult language at this time, but you know, you’ve got white people who are upset because they’ve been out of business for a few weeks. And I’m not, I’m not downplaying that that’s a big thing, but she’s like for a few weeks and they’re feeling this sense of injustice and some are even going and protesting at state houses and capitals and other places. She said, my people have been feeling that injustice for hundreds of years, you know, welcome to my [00:16:00] world on an ongoing basis. And. And again, in those conversations, you hurt here. Things where you, you start to say, Oh, well, that’s not fair. Well, that’s not fair. And we can parse those through, but I think only we can parse those things through, after we say, you know, you’re kind of right. I’m willing to hear your story and know that your story is different than mine. And that’s what I really think we’ve got to set aside the tribe, like you say, and be willing to hear the other person’s story. And I think that’s really important in this season. Craig Scharton: [00:16:32] Yeah, well, and I hear, you know, and, you know, do, do you, you know, do you lump women into all being like this or men? You know, we make fun of men for being stupid or smelly or whatever, like cave men or whatever. you know, it, all of those things have an effect when we think them. And when we say I’m certainly. so even like just [00:17:00] the dumbest jokes about those kinds of things, are funny jokes just in terms of Tony that all down, changing our own perspectives, trying to model better behavior, you know, even when we don’t understand it, you know, we’ve talked about the pronouns thing earlier. Don’t I still don’t totally get that just seems like. Oh man. Now there’s one more thing I have to do. And I got that yet. I get up my wits in sometimes, but if that’s i…
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