Stay ConnectedBen Olson and Nathan Fox started the Thinking LSAT Podcast to become better LSAT teachers and have some fun. Please 1) subscribe, 2) rate and review, and 3) send us questions: help@thinkinglsat.com. Don’t pay for law school!
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Test day doesn’t always go as planned. From tech problems to tricky logic games, unexpected challenges during an official LSAT attempt can be intimidating for many students. But the best-prepared test takers don’t hide from their fears—they plan for them. Also on this week’s pod, Ben and Nathan discuss why retaking is almost always the correct decision, how students can learn from their mistakes, and what low-GPA applicants can do to bolster their applications.
1:45 - October LSAT Scores - Nathan and Ben applaud LSAT Demon students’ successes on the October LSAT. The guys encourage anyone who was disappointed with their score to retake.
11:09 - Test Anxiety - Ben and Nathan describe a powerful technique for dealing with test anxiety: anticipate test-day challenges, and plan how you’ll respond.
16:14 - Learning from Mistakes - The goal of review is to learn from your mistakes so that you don’t repeat them. The guys suggest some review questions to ask yourself to help accomplish this goal.
25:26 - “Lived Experience” Essays - Some law schools are now inviting applicants to write “lived experience” essays in place of traditional diversity statements.
30:42 - Low GPA - Nathan and Ben answer a series of listener questions about applying with a low GPA. The guys advise restraint in GPA addendums, and they remind listeners that nothing atones for a low GPA like a high LSAT score.
Law school isn’t a level playing field. First-generation college students face significant disadvantages in law school, as reported by the Law School Survey of Student Engagement. Nathan and Ben discuss the major challenges that await first-gen students—underscoring the importance of not paying for law school. Later, the guys explain their approach to questions that they can’t immediately solve. They urge a geographically limited applicant to expand their list of schools. And they deliberate on a listener’s choice between the LSAT and the GRE.
2:28 - LR in the Real World - The guys use their Logical Reasoning expertise to criticize a sentimental bumper sticker. Ben reveals why he isn’t a big fan of poetry.
6:58 - First-Gen Students - The Law School Survey of Student Engagement sheds light on the challenges faced by first-generation college students attending law school.
19:46 - Timing - Nathan and Ben instruct an LSAT Demon student to ignore the clock and to answer questions at their own pace. The guys also advise against flagging questions to review later. And they explain when to move on from a question that you haven’t fully solved.
36:42 - Apply Broadly - Ben and Nathan encourage listener Nikki to apply broadly despite her limited geographical flexibility. Nikki can’t make a well-informed decision about law school without gauging her value in the marketplace.
42:26 - Applying with a Criminal Record - People with felony convictions aren’t immediately disqualified from practicing law in most states, but they face an uphill battle and increased scrutiny. The guys refer an anonymous listener to Yale’s page on applying with a criminal record.
47:27 - GRE vs. LSAT - Should listener Sarthak skip the LSAT and apply to law school with his strong GRE scores? Nathan and Ben give Sarthak their blessing—as long as he's ready to turn down bad offers.
57:04 - Gap Semester - The guys see no need for listener Minnie to explain why she took a gap semester in college.
58:23 - Touring Law Schools - Ben and Nathan consider a possible downside to campus visits. Law schools could charge higher prices to applicants who demonstrate a high level of interest in their schools.
Logic Games will soon be on their way out, and many LSAT students are now grappling with the decision of whether to study them. Should you invest time in mastering LG, or should you pivot toward preparing for a games-free LSAT? In this week’s discussion, Ben and Nathan advocate a balanced approach that prepares students for any version of the test. Later, the guys provide feedback on personal statement topics, share the key to unlocking perfect RC passages, and weigh the pros and cons of retaking the test.
3:28 - Should I Keep Studying LG?
With Logic Games leaving the LSAT in August 2024, listener Amanda is unsure whether to continue practicing LG or to shift her focus solely to Logical Reasoning and Reading Comprehension. Nathan and Ben propose a flexible study plan that allows Amanda to keep her options open.
10:59 - Personal Statement Topics
Ben and Nathan provide insights on several listeners’ personal statement topics. One applicant intends to explain a career change. Another wants to address their ADHD diagnosis. A third considers highlighting their ethnicity and cultural heritage.
32:24 - Perfect Passages
Listener Regan rarely scores perfectly on a logic game or RC passage. Nathan and Ben challenge Regan to pick an answer only when they’re certain it’s correct.
36:09 - Eliminating Wrong Answers
If you’re critical of the answer choices, you can eliminate wrong answers without fully explaining why they’re wrong.
40:32 - Parallel Reasoning
Some Parallel Reasoning questions present answer choices that rearrange the premises and the conclusion. Ben and Nathan demonstrate an intuitive approach to solving these questions.
46:34 - Drilling LR Question Types
Students often struggle to distinguish Necessary Assumption questions from Sufficient Assumption questions. Nathan and Ben see value in designating time to drill these and other commonly confused question types.
49:30 - Downside to Retaking?
Nolan worries that law schools might view him unfavorably if he retakes the LSAT and gets a lower score. Ben and Nathan assure Nolan that any potential downside of retaking is negligible, and the potential rewards could be game-changing.
The era of LSAT logic games is coming to a close. Beginning in August 2024, the exam’s Analytical Reasoning section will be removed, making room for a second section of Logical Reasoning. Ben and Nathan share their take on the news and offer advice to present and future LSAT students. Later, the guys cast doubt on income-driven loan repayment programs. They urge listeners to see the LSAT as a stepping stone, not a stumbling block. And they assess the admissions prospects of low-GPA splitters.
1:28 - Logic Games Going Away
Nathan and Ben lament LG’s imminent demise.
20:37 - Pearls vs. Turds
Should listener Taylor attend an overpriced law school and trust a federal income-driven repayment program to help pay off their debt? Ben and Nathan caution Taylor to steer clear of loan forgiveness traps.
26:04 - LSAT Pressure
An anonymous listener struggles with burnout and anxiety. Nathan and Ben counsel Anonymous to accept a long-term LSAT study plan that doesn’t put life on hold.
39:50 - Return to Fundamentals
Despite recent success in their prep, an anonymous LSAT Demon student has reverted to some bad habits. Ben and Nathan recommend taking some time off from the LSAT and returning to fundamentals.
59:00 - Appealing to Retake
Listener TH shares the story of how they successfully appealed to take the LSAT a seventh time.
1:06:13 - Applying to HYS
An anonymous listener considers applying to a few elite law schools this year, then applying more broadly next cycle if necessary. Nathan and Ben worry that this plan could shut the door on scholarships from other excellent schools.
1:10:40 - GPA Questions
The guys address a series of questions from listeners with low undergraduate GPAs. Crushing the LSAT won’t erase an applicant’s low GPA, but it’s their best shot at tipping the scales in their favor.
Law schools thirsty for applicants may tell you that people rarely improve their LSAT score by more than a few points. This week, Ben and Nathan unpack the motivation behind this pernicious myth. Law schools don’t want you to improve your LSAT. They want your application now. Later, the guys discredit the impact of stamina on LSAT performance. They encourage listeners not to write addendums that draw attention to their weaknesses. And they consider the extent to which law school rankings matter outside of the T14.
3:57 - Law School Transparency - Nathan and Ben react to news that the U.S. Department of Education will soon require law schools to disclose more information about student debt and career outcomes.
10:42 - Patience Pays Off - Don’t rush to apply this cycle. Patient applicants can make life-changing improvements to their LSAT scores. Ben and Nathan also warn listener Jacob that law school isn’t a business investment—it’s a box to check en route to becoming a lawyer.
29:10 - Unlocking LG - The guys ponder what’s keeping LSAT Demon student Aidan from unlocking perfect scores in LG. They preach accuracy over speed and suggest that Aidan stop trying to finish all four games in a section.
34:03 - Premise Indicators - Ben and Nathan explain how words like “for” and “because” indicate premises.
36:52 - Strengthen and Weaken - The guys use a football analogy to illustrate different approaches to strengthening or weakening an argument.
42:22 - Stamina - Listener Jewel blames her lack of stamina for lower scores in the later sections of practice tests. Nathan and Ben fear that Jewel is engaging in a self-fulfilling prophecy.
48:30 - GPA Addendum - An anonymous listener asks whether to address a past substance abuse problem that negatively affected their undergraduate grades. Ben and Nathan advise Anonymous to highlight recent career accomplishments instead.
55:52 - Résumé Addendum - The guys encourage listener Sydney to refrain from writing an addendum that draws attention to a gap in their résumé.
58:24 - Do Rankings Matter? - Listener Chris wonders whether ranking matters outside of the T14. Nathan and Ben reiterate their 2x rule for law school rankings: When comparing one school to another, you shouldn’t consider their rankings unless they differ by twice as much or more.
One high-quality hour of study per day is all you need to beat the LSAT. Still, many students struggle to commit. This week, Nathan and Ben prompt listeners to prioritize and make time for the LSAT. Later, the guys question whether undergraduate GPA inflation is making law school admissions more competitive. They examine scholarships for in-state applicants. And they break down how to approach an LSAT question when all the answer choices seem terrible.
2:28 - September LSAT Scores - Ben and Nathan give props to LSAT Demon students who crushed the September LSAT.
12:30 - Two Practice Tests per Day? - Nathan and Ben question whether an anonymous listener’s extreme study schedule produces a placebo effect.
21:30 - Testing Center Procedures - Listener Serena shares news that in-person test takers may not use their own writing instruments. All scratch paper and pencils will be provided by Prometric. What to expect at a Prometric testing center
25:02 - Work-Life Balance - Listener Imani struggles to find time to study after a demanding day at work. The guys advise Imani to reconsider her priorities.
34:22 - GPA Inflation - Ben and Nathan assess Daisy's concerns about GPA inflation at top law schools. They recommend against writing a GPA addendum.
44:52 - Low GPA Admissions Chances - Nathan and Ben assure listener Andres that a good LSAT score could earn him scholarship offers from regional law schools despite his low GPA.
49:57 - In-State Disadvantage - Evidence and common sense suggest that law schools give bigger scholarships to out-of-state applicants.
54:31 - Picking the Least Bad Answer - Listener Sara asks how to find the correct answer when all options seem bad. Ben and Nathan push Sara to understand precisely what differentiates the answer choices.
Law school admissions is a competitive game, and schools are wary to admit applicants who are likely to enroll elsewhere. This week, Ben and Nathan examine a tactic that an admissions office may use to gauge an applicant’s interest in their law school. Later, the guys share some tips for overcoming test day anxiety, they evaluate a strategy for the closing minutes of timed sections, and they dig into the Flaw question type in Logical Reasoning.
0:58 - Updating a Personal Statement - Why might a law school invite you to rewrite your personal statement? Nathan and Ben suspect that they’re gauging your interest in their school. The guys remind listeners that lawyers never shy away from extra work if it helps to make their case.
34:48 - Test Day Anxiety - Ben and Nathan share some tips on how to mitigate test day anxiety.
41:41 - Question Timing - LSAT Demon student Lucy suggests a new feature that would show students how much time they spent on each question of a timed section. Nathan and Ben are open to the idea but doubt that such a feature would be as helpful as Lucy thinks.
44:30 - Last Five Minutes - Listener Hanna sees value in another prep company’s “five-minute plan” for when time is running low. Ben and Nathan don’t want a five-minute plan to distract Hanna from her 35-minute plan.
52:11 - Apply Now or After October? - An anonymous listener considers withdrawing from the October LSAT to apply earlier in the cycle. Nathan and Ben offer an alternative: apply next cycle with a better LSAT score.
1:00:38 - Flaw Questions - Ben and Nathan break down two of the most common phrasings for answer choices on Flaw questions.
1:13:51 - Plug and Chug - Nathan and Ben discuss why solving Logic Games is never an either-or decision between opposing methods. Everyone will discover their own best approach, which is often a blend of worlds and “plug and chug.”
1:18:48 - Personal Statement Topic - Ben and Nathan encourage an anonymous listener to focus their personal statement on career successes rather than an early-career layoff.
1:22:32 - Scholarship Estimator - Nathan and Ben explain some of the methodology behind the LSAT Demon Scholarship Estimator.
Judge Douglas R. M. Nazarian has served on the Appellate Court of Maryland since 2013. He joins Ben and Nathan to share his journey to the bench and to pull back the curtain on the work of an appellate court judge. He also discusses the mission of the Legal Accountability Project, the qualities he looks for in a judicial clerk, and factors to consider when deciding where to attend law school.
2:41 - Becoming a Judge - Judge Nazarian recounts the hard work, politicking, and luck involved in his multi-year journey to become an appellate court judge.
23:56 - How Decisions Are Made - Judge Nazarian describes the role of appellate courts. He explains why appeals aren’t simply “do-overs” and how lawsuits are shaped by individual discretion and the rules of evidence.
40:37 - Judicial Clerkships - Judge Nazarian discusses the Legal Accountability Project’s mission to bring greater transparency to the judiciary and more diversity to judicial clerkship hires. He also lists the qualities he looks for when hiring clerks and details the role that clerks play in crafting judicial decisions. Listen to Episode 418 for more on the Legal Accountability Project and judicial clerkships.
59:18 - Choosing a Law School - Judge Nazarian shares his advice for choosing the right law school. He deemphasizes rankings and assures listeners that where they go to law school won’t fully determine their career outcomes.
Kate Bridal and Josey Hoff, hosts of The Legal Burnouts podcast, join Ben and Nathan to discuss why burnout is such a common problem for legal professionals. They advise future lawyers on how to plan for a healthy, sustainable career.
Follow Kate @bridalpartyof5 on Instagram and TikTok, and follow Josey @jh_thelegalburnouts on Instagram.
1:47 - Legal Burnout - Josey and Kate share their stories of burnout and warn listeners about the realities of legal practice. Toxic law firm culture, zero work-life balance, pervasive mental health and drug problems, and student loan debt all plague legal professionals. Even if you love the law, you may never enjoy working in the law.
26:08 - Nonprofit and Public Interest Work - Kate and Josey describe the emotional tolls of working for nonprofits in the public interest. While many people aspire to do this kind of work, systemic issues make it more challenging and less fruitful than they’d envisioned. Law students often feel constant pressure from their peers and their law schools to work in a traditional law firm—not in the public interest. And practically no one follows through on plans to leave big law for a nonprofit once their student loans are paid off.
1:02:48 - Advice for Students - Josey and Kate advise prospective law students to seek out lawyers and to gain law firm work experience before deciding to go to law school. They also explain the importance of setting personal boundaries in law school and with clients so that the law doesn’t consume your life.
1:07:00 - The Legal Burnouts Podcast - Kate and Josey share the backstory on how they met, why they decided to start their podcast, and who some of their favorite guests have been so far.
Loan Repayment Assistance Programs (LRAPs) are often touted as silver bullets of student loan debt relief for low-earning public interest lawyers. But as good as loan forgiveness sounds, LRAPs are riddled with caveats and conditions that may leave some students with far bigger student loan bills than expected. This week, Nathan and Ben present a list of questions that any LRAP hopeful should ask. They conclude that an upfront scholarship should always be preferred over dependence on loan forgiveness.
1:12 - Real-Life LR Flaw - The guys crack up over some car shopping advice that reads like a flawed argument from LSAT Logical Reasoning.
3:39 - LSAT Writing - Listener Dastin provides an update on the functionality of the LSAT Writing interface. You can use the cut, copy, and paste commands while writing your official submission, but not while taking notes in the “digital scratch paper.”
5:45 - New Test Dates - Additional test dates have been added to the October 2023 and November 2023 administrations of the LSAT. Sessions have been added on October 15 and 16 as well as November 8 and 9.
7:19 - August LSAT Shout-Outs - Ben and Nathan give props to LSAT Demon students who crushed the August LSAT. The guys implore listeners not to settle for a lower score than they’re capable of.
19:50 - August LSAT Disappointments - Not everybody who took the August LSAT was happy with their score. Nathan and Ben address some common reasons for underperformance on test day and share advice on how to avoid these pitfalls in the future. They also counsel patience to anyone who feels rushed to apply with a less-than-great LSAT score.
33:31 - Diminishing Returns on Retakes - How high do you have to score before retaking no longer makes sense? It depends on where you plan to apply.
36:35 - LSAT First, Apply Later - Nathan and Ben recap an admissions event that dished out some questionable advice for law school applicants.
54:57 - Loan Repayment Assistance Programs - A friend of LSAT Demon and current student at Yale Law proposes some questions to ask before committing to a top school’s Loan Repayment Assistance Program (LRAP). These programs may sound appealing, but they’re often far less helpful than you’d think.
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