Stay ConnectedBen Olson and Nathan Fox started the Thinking LSAT Podcast to become better LSAT teachers and have some fun. Please 1) subscribe, 2) rate and review, and 3) send us questions: help@thinkinglsat.com. Don’t pay for law school!
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Copyright: © Nathan Fox and Ben Olson
How important is it to apply early? According to a recent study published in the University of Chicago Journal of Law and Economics, “an application delay of 100 days is associated with a drop in the probability of admission of around 8.5 percentage points—a disadvantage comparable to lowering the applicant’s undergraduate GPA by .26 or LSAT score by 2.1 points.” Ben and Nathan crunch the numbers and double down on their advice: apply early, but steer clear of “early decision” programs. The guys also say goodbye to the logic games, preview the new format for LSAT Writing, and provide an update on the curious case of Campbell Law.
0:37 - So Long, LG - The June LSAT is done, and so is LSAT Analytical Reasoning. Nathan and Ben bid farewell to the logic games and reflect on why they loved them.
4:56 - New LSAT Writing - LSAC will debut the new format for LSAT Writing on July 30, 2024. Ben and Nathan preview the changes and invite listeners to share their own responses to LSAC’s sample prompt. Submit your writing sample to help@thinkinglsat.com for a chance to have it featured on the show.
16:02 - Campbell 509 Update - In Ep. 451, the guys discovered some puzzling scholarship data on the ABA 509 report for Campbell Law School. LSAT Demon team members reached out to the school, and Campbell has now corrected the mistake.
22:38 - International GPA - Listener Nafosat worries that her international transcript might place her at a disadvantage in law school admissions. The guys discuss how LSAC evaluates international transcripts.
26:04 - Application Timing - Nathan and Ben share the highlights from a recent study on law school application timing. TL;DR? “Applications submitted earlier enjoy a considerable advantage relative to later applications.”
1:00:21 - Remunerative Business - Investor Charlie Munger explains why he didn’t become a lawyer: a lawyer’s most lucrative clients are often “grossly defective people.”
1:04:01 - Words of the Week - Dispute unproven conclusions. Reject bad reasoning.
Why do you want to become a lawyer? If you’re chasing prestige, then you might want to reconsider. This week, Ben and Nathan critique several common but misguided reasons people give for wanting to become lawyers. Later, the guys reveal the key to getting faster on the LSAT. They counsel a waitlist-bound applicant to reapply next cycle. And they discuss whether the loss of LG will change the way the LSAT is scored.
4:03 - Arguments Against Law School - An anonymous listener seeks reasons not to go to law school. Nathan and Ben ask Anonymous: What’s wrong with your current job?
10:28 - Why Become a Lawyer? - The guys discuss several bad reasons—and one good reason—to become a lawyer.
22:06 - Score Plateau - Listener Cole has embraced the Demon’s accuracy-first approach. Now how does he improve his speed? Nathan and Ben instruct Cole to start eliminating wrong answers more quickly.
35:04 - Score Decrease - We all have off days. Ben and Nathan tell listener Isabelle not to fret over a temporary decrease in her LSAT Demon dashboard rating.
41:19 - LR Approach - The guys find a serious flaw in listener Serena’s approach to Logical Reasoning. “That makes sense” is rarely an appropriate reaction to arguments in LR.
50:30 - 20 Points in 3 Months? - You don’t need to pick your test dates months in advance. Just keep practicing and register when you’re ready.
57:19 - Waitlist Hell - An anonymous listener weighs two disappointing offers of admission. The guys push for a third option: retake and reapply.
1:10:26 - Testing Limits - Nathan and Ben explain LSAC’s limits for retaking the LSAT.
1:14:27 - Scoring Scale Changes? - Listener Aden speculates that LSAC will soon change how it scores the LSAT. Whatever happens, Ben and Nathan see no reason for students to change their approach to the test.
1:20:47 - Word of the Week - Law school pricing engenders disgust.
Ben and Nathan are joined again by Rachel Gezerseh, trial attorney and the author of The Law Career Playbook. Rachel previews the new edition of her book, which will include updated recommendations for Zoom interviews and online networking. Later, the guys describe a typical LSAT study schedule, and they explore the multiple benefits of taking a gap year before applying to law school.
0:57 - New LSAT Dates - LSAC announced new registration deadlines and opened registration for the 2024–2025 testing cycle. Find all the important dates at lsat.link/dates.
2:16 - Rachel Gezerseh - Rachel urges future law students to start building their professional network today. She also discusses her teaching role at USC Law. She shares her experience of finding a job in big law after graduating from a regional law school. And she explains how her former career as a documentary filmmaker has benefitted her in her current role as a lawyer.
26:27 - Study Schedule - Nathan and Ben outline a typical weekly study schedule that balances all three sections of the test.
30:42 - Gap Year - Nathan and Ben encourage an anonymous listener to reconsider their K-JD timeline. There are multiple good reasons to take a gap year before applying to law school.
39:34 - Word of the Week - Treat your official LSAT as a quotidian event.
LSAT scores are on the rise. The total number of applicants scoring 170 or higher has more than doubled since 2015. This week, Ben and Nathan weigh in on what’s driving this trend and whether LSAC might make the test more difficult in response. Later, the guys discuss how much time they spend reading RC passages. They advise listeners not to apply early decision. And they help a student move on from a disappointing April LSAT.
3:30 - June or August? - An anonymous listener who’s strong in Logic Games asks if they should take the test in June or wait until they’ve improved in LR and RC. Nathan and Ben caution listeners not to rush into law school with a mediocre LSAT score.
8:35 - Is the LSAT Getting Harder? - Will LSAC make the LSAT more difficult because of the increasing number of high scores? Ben and Nathan advise students to focus on fixing their current mistakes before worrying about hypotheticals.
14:28 - Accommodations - In the past decade, Nathan and Ben haven’t heard of LSAC denying accommodations to someone who needed them. But they have heard of LSAC granting extra time to people who don’t really need it.
27:29 - RC Timing - Ben and Nathan discuss how much time LSAT students should spend reading RC passages before moving on to the questions.
33:15 - Early Decision - The guys double down on their advice not to apply early decision. And they discuss why law school scholarships are nothing more than price discrimination.
50:58 - Bouncing Back from April - Listener Ella worries about “risking” another official attempt in August if she underperforms in June. Nathan and Ben encourage Ella to take the LSAT as many times as necessary and to treat the official test like any other practice test.
59:23 - Law School Doesn’t Prepare - Here’s some unsurprising news: Law school failed to prepare 45% of junior associates for practice.
1:03:01 - Word of the Week - “Their space-annihilating concupiscence seemed centered on mentholated smoke alone.”
1L strategy coach Angela Vorpahl returns to Thinking LSAT to discuss five common but misguided pieces of advice for incoming law students. She explains why these conventional 1L strategies fall short and suggests more effective alternatives.
3:08 - Class Prep vs. Exam Prep - Law professors insist that students should thoroughly read each assigned case. But reading every line of every case takes a huge amount of time. Angela advises students to invest their time in study methods that have a greater impact on their final grade.
20:15 - Note-Taking Strategies - Research suggests that students who take notes by hand might retain more information than students who type their notes. But for Angela’s preferred method of note-taking, handwriting notes simply isn’t fast enough.
33:05 - Study Supplements - Some law school traditionalists vilify study supplements like hornbooks, and they label students who use them as lazy. But these supplements aren’t shortcuts; they’re vital study tools—especially when professors routinely fail to teach the material in a straightforward way.
46:33 - Outlining Is Not Enough - A good outline may be necessary to succeed on law school exams, but it’s not sufficient. Angela describes the extra study step that students should take after outlining.
56:21 - IRAC - “Issue, Rule, Application, and Conclusion” (IRAC) has long been the popular structure for legal analysis in law school. But Angela argues that IRAC misses the most important part of how students score points on final exams.
1:07:28 - Intermediate Conclusions - Don’t worry too much about identifying intermediate conclusions. Focus on what the argument says.
1:16:26 - Academic Suspension - Nathan and Ben follow up on last week’s story about an applicant who wants to remove an academic suspension from their transcript.
1:18:46 - Word of the Week - Halo Top is execrable.
Ben and producer Erik team up to offer guidance on overcoming a score plateau. One key tip: Don’t fixate on your practice test scores. Later, Ben and Erik debunk the rumor that applicants hurt their admissions chances when they withdraw and reapply. They examine law schools’ employment outcome disclosures. And they discuss what it means to overthink the correct answer—and how to stop.
5:52 - Score Plateau - How do you break out of a score plateau? Stop worrying about your score, and focus on fixing individual mistakes.
16:20 - Downside to Reapplying? - An anonymous listener applied late in the cycle and received disappointing scholarship offers. Will law schools treat Anonymous unfavorably for declining these offers and reapplying next cycle?
22:07 - Judicial Clerkships - Must listener Alex attend a highly ranked law school to obtain a judicial clerkship? Erik and Ben investigate schools’ employment outcomes at abarequireddisclosures.org.
29:50 - Overthinking - We’re more likely to overthink answer choices when we rush our reading of the passage and fail to predict the answer. Avoid this trap by spending more time unpacking the passage before reading the answer choices.
36:50 - Group Classes vs. Solo Study - Ben and Erik suggest that listener Hannah try a month of Demon Live in preparation for the June LSAT.
39:37 - GPA Addendum - Erik and Ben help an anonymous listener write a GPA addendum to address an anomalous semester of bad grades.
40:57 - Transcript Error - Ben and Erik encourage an anonymous listener to be persistent in trying to remove an error on their undergraduate transcript.
44:24 - LSAT Survey - LSAT Demon now appears in the post-LSAT survey. Thanks to LSAT Demon student Laura for sharing the news.
46:23 - Words of the Week - Misers ascribe no merit to spending money.
Ben and Nathan chat with Nick Hafen, the Head of Legal Technology Education at BYU Law. They discuss what law students should know about leveraging generative AI tools like ChatGPT in law school and beyond. The guys also review a tip for managing test anxiety, and they explain why they don’t diagram in Logical Reasoning.
0:43 - Generative AI - Nick explains some generative AI basics that law students should know. The guys discuss how the technology might impact lawyers’ jobs.
8:57 - AI and Law School - Law schools are still deciding how to incorporate AI into their curriculums. Students shouldn’t rely on their professors to teach them everything they need to know.
17:39 - Getting Started with AI - Nick suggests a simple Google search to start learning about generative AI. Ben and Nathan encourage listeners to experiment with new use cases.
24:49 - Nick’s Career - Nick outlines his career path from big law, to solo practice, to working at BYU.
32:19 - BYU Admissions - The guys look at BYU’s admissions and scholarship data using LSAT Demon’s Tuition Roll Call.
39:29 - Nick’s LSAT Story - Nick shares the story of his nerve-racking experience taking the LSAT in person while studying abroad.
43:44 - Word of the Week - Whoever invented Halo Top should be defenestrated.
46:17 - Pearls vs. Turds - Listener Henry provides a tip for boosting confidence on test day.
52:25 - Don’t Diagram in LR - Nathan and Ben explain why diagramming conditional statements in Logical Reasoning can be more harmful than helpful.
Many law students pay nowhere near full tuition. Some pay no tuition at all. Law schools don’t offer reduced or waived tuition fees out of generosity—it’s a calculated business strategy. But this week, Nathan and Ben discover a law school whose outlandish scholarship numbers seem to defy business sense. The guys also discuss the new US News law school rankings, help listeners choose between law schools, and advise students to keep their study schedules simple.
4:14 - Law School Rankings - US News just released its 2024 law school rankings. While the rankings have changed, their practical value hasn’t. They still provide poor justification for choosing one law school over another.
10:27 - Picking a Law School - Ben and Nathan help two listeners decide between offers of admission. The choice largely depends on answering a single question: “What do you want to do?”
33:48 - Bouncing Back - Listener Tyler stumbled during his April test. Nathan and Ben encourage him to learn from his mistake and to stay the course as he prepares for the June LSAT.
38:48 - There Is No Curve - How will the removal of Logic Games affect the curve on the August LSAT? Easy question. It won’t, because LSAT scores aren’t curved.
45:30 - Study Schedule - An anonymous listener with lots of time to study asks how to structure their study schedule. Ben and Nathan give a surprising answer: It doesn’t matter.
50:28 - Who Pays at Campbell? - The guys browse the scholarship estimator for law schools friendly to splitters with low GPAs. They find Campbell University School of Law, which reports that a staggering 94% of its students receive full-ride scholarships.
1:08:50 - Waitlist to Full Ride - LSAT Demon student Jason just accepted a full-ride scholarship to Texas A&M after being waitlisted by the school earlier this year.
1:13:52 - Word of the Week - We vituperate predatory law schools.
Tuitions are soaring at U.S. colleges and universities, and short-sighted student loan policies may be partly to blame. This week, Ben and Nathan discuss the latest round of student loan forgiveness, which treats the symptoms of high education costs but won’t fix the problem. The guys also correct a common misconception about “test-optional” admissions. They consider the scholarship chances of applicants with low GPAs. And they advise a listener to pick a new personal statement topic.
3:48 - LSAT Optional - No, the LSAT is not “going away” in 2025. Law schools will continue to value the LSAT even if they aren’t required to use it.
15:32 - Low GPA - Applicants with low GPAs aren’t locked out of law school. Grade forgiveness may help some. But a high LSAT score is the real key to getting scholarships.
23:24 - GPA and Law School Rankings - An anonymous listener considers taking a course pass-fail to avoid hurting their GPA. Nathan and Ben approve. The guys explain why law schools are so invested in their GPA medians: it’s all in the rankings game.
31:40 - $100,000 a Year - Some colleges will soon charge $100,000 a year. Ben and Nathan bemoan the unhinged state of tuition hikes and student loans.
39:34 - Personal Statement - The guys advise an anonymous listener to avoid a vague personal statement.
43:00 - Graduate School - An anonymous listener wants to drop out of grad school but worries about what law schools will think. Nathan and Ben think the choice is clear.
46:38 - Extra Test Attempt - Leslie, LSAT Demon’s admissions guru, shares the story of a student who successfully appealed for an extra test attempt.
50:48 - Word of the Week - Listener Syd recommends Merriam-Webster’s Word of the Day.
The April LSAT is almost here. How should test-takers approach the final days leading up to their official test? Nathan and Ben advise listeners to treat test week like any other week of unhurried LSAT prep. Later, the guys explain why you shouldn’t skip tough questions. They shake their heads at UC Law SF’s solicitations. And they offer words of encouragement to a student who is concerned about how the elimination of Logic Games might impact their score.
1:03 - April LSAT - Treat test week like any other practice week. Treat the official test like any other practice test.
6:35 - LSAT Demon Is Hiring - Want to join the team? LSAT Demon is hiring teachers and writers. Visit lsat.link/apply to submit your application.
7:47 - Skipping Questions - Listener Harry disagrees with Nathan and Ben’s advice not to skip or flag difficult questions. The guys clarify their position and reaffirm their mantra: “Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast.”
14:52 - Should I Quit My Job? - Ben and Nathan counsel listener Emna not to let law school admissions dictate an important career decision.
22:36 - UC Law San Francisco - Nathan scorns his alma mater’s pleas for more money.
30:12 - Is Law School the Right Path? - The best law students are fierce academic competitors. Applicants with low undergraduate GPAs should think long and hard before entering the fray.
42:05 - LG Study Schedule - Nathan and Ben describe their own study habits for Logic Games.
46:10 - LG Anxiety - An anonymous listener dreads losing the Logic Games after the June LSAT. Ben and Nathan encourage Anonymous to stay optimistic.
53:39 - Word of the Week - The best logic games are Daedalian puzzles.
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