The Trial

Latest Episodes:

Lucy Letby: The Facts Oct 06, 2026

Show notes

In this special video episode Caroline and Liz are back to discuss Lucy Letby - focusing on the facts and context of the case. Joining them in the studio is Press Association Reporter, Kim Pilling, who covered every day of the trial and believes more balance is needed in the ongoing conversations. They discuss how cherry-picking certain elements of the case, while omitting key information, has created a false narrative about what the jury actually heard over the 10-month trial and ultimately why they found Lucy Letby guilty of killing and harming babies.

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Presenters: Caroline Cheetham and Liz Hull

Guest: Kim Pilling

Editor: Tom James and Chelsey Ranore

Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham

Assistant Producer: Harriet Muckle

Production Manager: Vittoria Cecchini

A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular.

The Trial series uses actors and some voices generated by AI. Their words are taken as verbatim from the official court transcript.

Click here to sign up to The Crime Desk's weekly newsletter.

It's free and packed with exclusive interviews, expert insight, and gripping deep dive investigations from across the world.

A Daily Mail production.

Seriously Popular.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Kenneth Law: Poison In The Post Sep 29, 2026

Show notes

In October 2021, David Parfett tragically found his son, Tom, dead in a hotel room in Surrey. Tom was just 22 years old.

David was determined to find the truth behind his son’s death. He followed Tom’s digital footprint and made a shocking discovery.

A man called Kenneth Law had set up an online company to exploit vulnerable people suffering from mental illness. He helped them take their own lives by sending them poison through the post.

David soon discovered that Tom wasn’t the only person to have received the lethal substance. Law had sent more than 1,200 packages to 40 countries around the world.

With the help of a journalist, David tracked down Law and confronted him about his crimes. Law was then arrested in Canada and formally admitted to causing the deaths of 73 victims from England and Wales. However, following a plea deal, Law pleaded guilty to 14 counts of aiding and abetting suicide in Canada.

In this episode, we hear from some of the victims’ families at the Supreme Court of Ontario, where a hearing took place last week. More than 50 relatives of Canadian and British victims gave incredibly moving statements to the judge. Caroline and Liz speak to David about tracking down Law and the impact his horrific actions had on his family.

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Presenter: Caroline Cheetham and Liz Hull

Guest: David Parfett

Editor: Chelsey Ranore

Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham

Assistant Producer: Harriet Muckle

Production Manager: Vittoria Cecchini

A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular.

The Trial series uses actors and some voices generated by AI. Their words are taken as verbatim from the official court transcript.

Click here to sign up to The Crime Desk's weekly newsletter.

It's free and packed with exclusive interviews, expert insight, and gripping deep dive investigations from across the world.

A Daily Mail production.

Seriously Popular.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Rape Courts: Will They Make A Difference? Sep 22, 2026

Show notes

Can new government measures really improve the experience of rape victims in the criminal justice system? With thousands of rape and sexual assault cases waiting to reach court, ministers are promising dedicated courtrooms, fixed trial dates and more support for victims.

In this episode, Liz speaks to senior barrister Mary Prior KC about whether the proposals can make a meaningful difference. Mary explains why delays are so damaging for both victims and those accused, the practical problems facing courts across England and Wales, and why she believes much more investment is needed to fix a system struggling under years of pressure.

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Presenter: Liz Hull

Guest: Mary Prior KC

Editor: Chelsey Ranore

Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham

Assistant Producer: Harriet Muckle

Production Manager: Vittoria Cecchini

A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular.

The Trial series uses actors and some voices generated by AI. Their words are taken as verbatim from the official court transcript.

Click here to sign up to The Crime Desk's weekly newsletter.

It's free and packed with exclusive interviews, expert insight, and gripping deep dive investigations from across the world.

A Daily Mail production.

Seriously Popular.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Lucy Letby, The Inquiry: Babies Should Not Have Died Sep 15, 2026

Show notes

We now know for certain, babies should not have died at the Countess of Chester Hospital. In her scathing report into the failings which allowed Lucy Letby to harm babies for months, Lady Justice Thirlwall said three babies should not have died and seven more should not have been harmed. In her scathing report she condemned a fundamental lack of understanding of basic safeguarding regulations, a “tribal” approach from nurses, and an “exercise in spin” from senior leaders to delay police being called in to investigate. She also said the parents of the babies were treated reprehensibly. In this episode Caroline and Liz have her key findings and her urgent recommendations.

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Email us thetrial@dailymail.com

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Presenter: Caroline Cheetham and Liz Hull

Editor: Chelsey Ranore

Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham

Assistant Producer: Harriet Muckle

Production Manager: Vittoria Cecchini

A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular.

The Trial series uses actors and some voices generated by AI. Their words are taken as verbatim from the official court transcript.

Click here to sign up to The Crime Desk's weekly newsletter.

It's free and packed with exclusive interviews, expert insight, and gripping deep dive investigations from across the world.

A Daily Mail production.

Seriously Popular.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Lucy Letby, The Inquiry: The Hospital’s Day of Reckoning Sep 15, 2026

Show notes

Could Lucy Letby have been stopped sooner? Could babies have been saved? Was there an orchestrated hospital cover up? Were parents consistently lied to? Did a toxic hospital culture allow a serial killer to remain undetected for months?

Today Lady Justice Thirlwall is likely to answer these questions and more when she publishes her long-awaited report into the failings at the Countess of Chester Hospital.

In this bonus episode Caroline and Liz dissect the key moments from the seven month inquiry as they prepare to read her findings.

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Email us thetrial@dailymail.com

WhatsApp us +447796657512 (start your message with ‘Trial’)

Presenter: Caroline Cheetham and Liz Hull

Editor: Chelsey Ranore

Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham

Assistant Producer: Harriet Muckle

Production Manager: Vittoria Cecchini

A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular.

The Trial series uses actors and some voices generated by AI. Their words are taken as verbatim from the official court transcript.

Click here to sign up to The Crime Desk's weekly newsletter.

It's free and packed with exclusive interviews, expert insight, and gripping deep dive investigations from across the world.

A Daily Mail production.

Seriously Popular.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Chris Brain: The Priest, The Cult, The Trial Sep 08, 2026

Show notes

Today on the podcast Caroline and Ryan have the extraordinary allegations against a Church of England Priest, who ran what's been called a "cult" service to abuse his female "disciples". Chris Brain admits having sexual relations with worshippers at the infamous Nine O'Clock Service in Sheffield in the 1980s and 1990s, but he's now accused of criminal offences. The allegation is the women he targeted were so vulnerable, isolated and frightened that they did not have the capacity to consent.

Also today, Caroline chats to Liz about the imminent report by Lady Justice Thirlwall into the crimes of Lucy Letby.

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Email us thetrial@dailymail.com

WhatsApp us +447796657512 (start your message with ‘Trial’)

Presenter: Caroline Cheetham and Ryan Hooper

Editor: Chelsey Ranore

Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham

Assistant Producer: Harriet Muckle

Production Manager: Vittoria Cecchini

A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular.

The Trial series uses actors and some voices generated by AI. Their words are taken as verbatim from the official court transcript.

Click here to sign up to The Crime Desk's weekly newsletter.

It's free and packed with exclusive interviews, expert insight, and gripping deep dive investigations from across the world.

A Daily Mail production.

Seriously Popular.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Who cares about the Jury? Sep 01, 2026

Show notes

Does the law need to change in order to better protect jurors?

That is what the House of Lords is now considering. Long-established laws means members of a jury are not allowed to discuss a case with anyone during a trial. And even after a trial is finished, what they can say about what they have seen and heard is limited. But it's now recognised that the evidence in many cases is traumatising and jurors need more help. But that would mean amending the law and that is what a new inquiry is looking into this week.

In this episode Caroline chats to Doctor Hannah Fawcett about her work on the wellbeing of jurors and what she wants to see the inquiry recommend.

The Trial series uses actors and some voices generated by AI. Their words are taken as verbatim from the official court transcript.

Click here to sign up to The Crime Desk's weekly newsletter.

It's free and packed with exclusive interviews, expert insight, and gripping deep dive investigations from across the world.

A Daily Mail production.

Seriously Popular.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Christopher Phillips: Did a Grief Disorder lead to a Prison Sentence? Aug 25, 2026

Show notes

60-year-old Christopher Phillips kept his mother’s body in a freezer for almost three years, talking to her about her favourite television programmes and holding her hand as if she were still alive. A court heard that he was suffering from a little-known mental health condition called Prolonged Grief Disorder. But he also kept collecting her pension money - and he's now been sent to prison.

In this episode, Liz speaks to Dr Michael Duffy, a psychotherapist and specialist in trauma therapy, about what happens when grief becomes prolonged and overwhelming. They discuss Christopher Phillips’s unusual case, how the condition differs from normal grief and depression, why it can be missed by doctors, and whether a better understanding of Prolonged Grief Disorder could have prevented his grief from spiralling into crime.

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Email us thetrial@dailymail.com

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Presenter: Liz Hull

Guest: Dr Michael Duffy

Editor: Chelsey Ranore

Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham

Assistant Producer: Harriet Muckle

Production Manager: Vittoria Cecchini

A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular.

The Trial series uses actors and some voices generated by AI. Their words are taken as verbatim from the official court transcript.

Click here to sign up to The Crime Desk's weekly newsletter.

It's free and packed with exclusive interviews, expert insight, and gripping deep dive investigations from across the world.

A Daily Mail production.

Seriously Popular.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Jools Sweeney: The Continued Search for Answers Aug 18, 2026

Show notes

In this episode Liz speaks to Ellen Roome, the mum who has spent the past four years fighting for answers about the tragic death of her 14-year-old son Jools. After an inquest that lasted just 23 minutes and failed to properly examine his phone or social media activity, Ellen has now succeeded in getting the original verdict quashed by the High Court and a new inquest opened.

Ellen tells Liz why she believes social media could hold the key to understanding what happened to Jools, how her campaign has helped change the law, and why she is continuing to push for stronger protections for children online.

She also gives an update on the legal action she and other bereaved parents are taking against TikTok in the US.

Subscribe via https://plus.thecrimedesk.com

Email us thetrial@dailymail.com

WhatsApp us +447796657512 (start your message with ‘Trial’)

Presenter: Liz Hull

Guest: Ellen Roome

Editor: Chelsey Ranore

Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham

Assistant Producer: Harriet Muckle

Production Manager: Vittoria Cecchini

A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular.

The Trial series uses actors and some voices generated by AI. Their words are taken as verbatim from the official court transcript.

Click here to sign up to The Crime Desk's weekly newsletter.

It's free and packed with exclusive interviews, expert insight, and gripping deep dive investigations from across the world.

A Daily Mail production.

Seriously Popular.

Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Simon Levy: A Sexual Predator - "A Threat To All Women" Aug 12, 2026

Show notes

Simon Levy will never be released from prison. A judge today decided his crimes against three women were so horrific, so depraved, that he should spend the rest of his life behind bars.

In this episode, Liz and Nick have all the details from an emotional day at the Old Bailey, including the words of Sheryl Wilkins’ mum Mary and sister Lindsay, and Carmenza Valencia-Trujillo’s daughter Nazly. They also hear from Levy’s surviving victim, who told the court he had taken away her soul and her dignity. But as those women described the devastation his crimes had caused, Simon Levy sat emotionless in the dock.

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Presenter: Liz Hull and Nick Fagge

Actors: Beth Hale and Sophie Ashley

Editor: Chelsey Ranore

Creative Director: Caroline Cheetham

Assistant Producer: Harriet Muckle

Production Manager: Vittoria Cecchini

A Daily Mail production. Seriously Popular.

The Trial series uses actors and some voices generated by AI. Their words are taken as verbatim from the official court transcript.

Click here to sign up to The Crime Desk's weekly newsletter.