The Symbolic World

Latest Episodes:

453 - Seraphim Hamilton - Isaiah: The Fifth Gospel Jun 02, 2026

Show notes

I’m joined again by Seraphim Hamilton to discuss his upcoming Symbolic World course on Isaiah, beginning June 15th. We talk about why Isaiah is central for understanding Christ in the Old Testament, the relationship between prophecy, exile, the suffering servant, the gentile nations, and the deep symbolic unity between Scripture, liturgy, and creation.
Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now to get 15% off before the early bird sale ends: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel
YouTube version: https://youtu.be/lPpBFh2-V90
Timestamps:
00:00 - Coming up
00:47 - Intro music
01:01 - Introducing Seraphim Hamilton and the Isaiah course
01:48 - Seminary, liturgy, and returning to Scripture
02:39 - Why Isaiah?
03:02 - Isaiah as a Christological book
05:27 - High Christology in the Old Testament
06:52 - Leviathan, Revelation, and the Angel of the Lord
07:51 - Isaiah 27 and the serpent of Genesis
08:22 - Sennacherib, Hezekiah, and the Angel of the Lord
10:51 - Are Old Testament prophecies taken out of context?
11:18 - Exile, Assyria, Babylon, and biblical prophecy
14:57 - Course promo: The Fifth Gospel
15:47 - Isaiah 14 and the fall of Satan
16:44 - The king of Babylon and the Daystar
19:06 - Isaiah 14, Isaiah 53, and the suffering servant
22:46 - Venus, Lucifer, and Christ as opposite images
24:22 - Angels, humanity, and the transfer of authority
25:57 - Is the suffering servant Israel or the Messiah?
26:23 - The Messiah as the son of David
28:50 - The servant, the seed, and the restoration of Israel
32:13 - How the nations participate in the promise
32:41 - The Old Testament and the redemption of the nations
34:54 - The mountain of the Lord and divine fire
37:34 - The heavenly Jerusalem and Isaiah 60
38:02 - Isaiah 59, incarnation, and the redemption of Israel
40:19 - The nations coming to honor the Jewish Messiah
43:14 - What the Isaiah class hopes to offer
43:56 - Seeing Christ disclosed in the Old Testament
46:36 - Symbolism, the Fathers, and the tight weave of Scripture
47:44 - Course details: five classes on Isaiah
48:49 - Closing and where to sign up
🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:
-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5
-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

452 - Hillsdale talk - Mythological Thinking: The Crossroads of Psychology and Theology May 29, 2026

Show notes

This is a talk I did at Hillsdale College in March 2026. In this talk, I explore mythological thinking as a way of understanding how facts become meaningful. Facts do not present themselves to us neutrally. They are always organized by care, relevance, attention, and story. I look at examples from Genesis, Icarus, Spider-Man, the Tower of Babel, and modern science to show how myths preserve deep patterns of human experience. Rather than treating myth as fiction or primitive explanation, I argue that myth reveals the structures by which we perceive reality, understand purpose, and connect psychology with theology.
YouTube version: https://youtu.be/DEShUddn8HY
Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now to get 15% off before the early bird sale ends: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel
🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:
-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5
-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488
Timestamps:
00:00 Coming up
01:38 Intro music
02:03 Introduction at Hillsdale College
06:59 Talk begins: hope, fragmentation, and new conversations
09:19 “Facts don’t care about your feelings”
12:12 Care organizes facts
16:50 Facts are always contained in a story
19:15 The Fifth Gospel course announcement
20:10 Why stories survive across generations
24:04 Mythological stories vs. scientific descriptions
27:14 Origin stories and why we care
30:37 Genesis as more than a scientific text
33:34 Genesis, relevance, and human categories
37:38 Why the mythological story should be primary
39:36 Myths are not primitive explanations
41:47 Babel, Icarus, Prometheus, and repeated patterns
44:16 Applicability vs. allegory
47:40 All remembered stories are mythological
49:24 Psychology, theology, and human care
51:27 The Incarnation as the myth that came true
54:34 How story unites psychology and theology
58:29 Returning to mythological thinking
59:55 Q&A: Bringing mythological thinking into science education
01:02:58 Q&A: How to recognize false myths
01:07:37 Q&A: Speaking truth in hostile circles
01:08:53 Q&A: Original sin as a true myth
01:11:13 Q&A: How artists discover truth through story
01:13:42 Q&A: Why live by Christ’s story rather than another?
01:18:21 Q&A: The modern fall into cold, hard reality
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

451 - Universal History: What Really Happened in Eden - Dcn. Seraphim Rohlin May 26, 2026

Show notes

A telling of the events in Genesis that you might never have heard before.
In this episode of Universal History, Deacon Seraphim Rohlin and I return to Genesis through the Syriac tradition, especially the Cave of Treasures. This is the groundwork for understanding the universal history of Persia.
Join Seraphim Hamilton in studying the Book of Isaiah this June. Register now to get 15% off before the early bird sale ends: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-fifth-gospel
YouTube version: https://youtu.be/f--wBUEAxjY
Universal History playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVX4HUUPrIY_M2uZP3yW6EEiod3fGD6FD
Timestamps:
00:00 - Coming up
00:38 - Intro music
01:03 - Why return to Genesis before Persia
05:54 - Syriac sources and the Cave of Treasures
08:21 - Tradition, Scripture, and how ancient stories are received
12:55 - Melchizedek, Moriah, and hidden biblical patterns
17:41 - The first day: creation, waters, and the leaven of life
24:37 - The second day: the firmament and the waters above
28:45 - The third day: earth, seeds, and creation’s hidden potential
34:22 - Sterility, power, and modern artificial systems
38:21 - The fourth day: sun, moon, stars, heat, and life
43:45 - The sixth day: the formation of Adam
45:23 - Adam’s glory and the angels’ fear
52:17 - Satan refuses to venerate Adam
56:56 - The chariot of fire and ascent into paradise
59:19 - Eve, Adam’s side, and ancient wedding symbolism
01:02:09 - Paradise as the Church
01:06:47 - Jerusalem, the cross, and universal history
01:10:55 - The fall, the serpent, and the mirror of temptation
01:17:42 - Garments of skin and the body after the fall
01:22:13 - Adam and Eve expelled from paradise
01:27:00 - The Cave of Treasures and the first temple
01:29:21 - Cain, Abel, and the first sacrifice
01:31:42 - Cain’s jealousy and the first murder
01:35:40 - Abel as the first martyr and first relic
01:37:50 - Genesis as the pattern of the whole world
🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:
-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5
-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

450 - An Exploration of Modern Dysfunction: What Pluribus is Actually About May 21, 2026

Show notes

In this video, I look at the symbolism of the recent TV show, Pluribus. There's a lot of speculation about whether it's an allegory for AI, the internet, totalitarianism, or resisting tyranny. But I would argue that it's not allegorical at all, rather it's an exploration of a deeper ontological problem: the relationship of the one and the many, the inside and the outside, sameness and difference.
Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/JIk5jpmf5D0
🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:
-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5
-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

449 - Decapitation Symbolism: The Glory of Losing Your Head May 08, 2026

Show notes

In this video, I explore the symbolism of decapitation in the Bible and Christian tradition. Beginning with Joseph’s interpretation of the baker and cupbearer in Genesis, we trace a pattern of “lifting up the head” through Scripture, martyrdom, the Eucharist, and ultimately the crucifixion and ascension of Christ. Along the way, we encounter Saint John the Baptist, the mystery of sacrifice, and the astonishing story of Saint Denis of Paris, who carried his own head while preaching after his martyrdom.
YouTube version: https://youtu.be/uwRsUj30URk
Join us at the Symbolic World Summit | May 14-16 | Ohio | Keynote speakers: Jonathan Pageau, Fr. Josiah Trenham, Mary Harrington, Dcn. Seraphim Rohlin, Kale Zelden, Annie Crawford, and Heather Pollington
Buy your tickets: https://symbolicworldsummit.com/
Virtual tickets are now also for sale, and Involved+ patrons can get 10% off: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/virtual-summit-2026
🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

448 - Fr. Josiah Trenham - How to Integrate Faith, Family, and Nation Apr 29, 2026

Show notes

I sat down with Fr. Josiah Trenham to talk about something that’s becoming harder to ignore: how to properly order your loyalties.
We discussed the tension between faith, nation, family, and personal identity, and what happens when those come into conflict.
Join us at the Symbolic World Summit, where Fr. Josiah will be one of the keynote speakers.
May 14-16 | Ohio | Keynote speakers: Jonathan Pageau, Fr. Josiah Trenham, Mary Harrington, Dcn. Seraphim Rohlin, Kale Zelden, Annie Crawford, and Heather Pollington
Buy your tickets: https://symbolicworldsummit.com/
YouTube version of this episode: https://youtu.be/Ugt7XnbH0tQ
🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:
-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5
-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

447 - Annie Crawford - The Cosmic Alchemy of That Hideous Strength Apr 21, 2026

Show notes

In this conversation with Annie Crawford, we explore the role of alchemy in C.S. Lewis’ That Hideous Strength. While alchemy is often dismissed as occult or irrelevant, Lewis uses its symbolism in a precise and meaningful way.
We look at how the novel presents two forms of transformation: one rooted in control, technology, and disembodied power, and the other in sacrifice, order, and participation in the divine. This distinction speaks directly to how we understand modern technology, including AI.
The discussion also touches on story structure, the nature of symbolic thinking, and how transformation is embedded in narrative itself.
YouTube version: https://youtu.be/7WqrbWNHJBs
Join us at the Symbolic World Summit | May 14-16 | Ohio | Keynote speakers: Jonathan Pageau, Fr. Josiah Trenham, Mary Harrington, Dcn. Seraphim Rohlin, Kale Zelden, Annie Crawford, and Heather Pollington
Buy your tickets: https://symbolicworldsummit.com/
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🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🎧 Please review The Symbolic World podcast:
-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5
-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

446 - Universal History: How Kabbalah Shaped America: the Land of the End Apr 18, 2026

Show notes

This is the final episode of our Universal History series on the American Religion. Deacon Seraphim Rohlin and I look at the religious ideas behind the American project, especially the influence of Kabbalah and the search for a “pure” and universal mystical tradition. We trace how early Protestants, thinkers like Thomas Jefferson, and figures like Ezra Stiles engaged with Jewish mysticism as part of their attempt to understand and shape America’s role in the universal history.
- Watch the YouTube version of this episode: https://youtu.be/A563i-jrZs0
- Watch the rest of this series here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVX4HUUPrIY_U0msyBRVpwCI_srzn3tjL
- Universal History playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVX4HUUPrIY_M2uZP3yW6EEiod3fGD6FD
Timestamps:
00:00 - Coming Up
01:10 - Intro Music
01:35 - Introduction & Framing the Topic
02:28 - Jefferson, Adams & “Pure Religion”
05:23 - Kabbalah and the Founding Fathers
07:48 - Puritans, Quakers & Early American Mysticism
11:11 - Adam Kadmon & Christian Kabbalah
16:18 - George Keith & Quaker Debates
20:18 - Sabatianism & Messianic Movements
26:03 - Apocalyptic Expectations in Early America
29:44 - Judah Monis & Kabbalah in Harvard
33:48 - Kabbalah Used to Defend the Trinity
35:59 - Ezra Stiles & America as the New Israel
39:06 - America as the “New World” in Prophecy
42:49 - Loss of Christian Mysticism & Turning to Kabbalah
48:33 - America as the Promised Land Idea
51:50 - Is America the “End of the World”?
54:54 - The Contradictions of American Culture
58:10 - Final Reflections on America’s Spiritual Identity
=====
Join us at the Symbolic World Summit | May 14-16 | Ohio | Keynote speakers: Jonathan Pageau, Fr. Josiah Trenham, Mary Harrington, Dcn. Seraphim Rohlin, Kale Zelden, Annie Crawford, and Heather Pollington.
Buy your tickets: https://symbolicworldsummit.com/
=====
NEW COURSE: Plutarch: Symbolism in History with Pavel Shchelin
The problem with history is that you are in it. Plutarch teaches us to read power symbolically—asking "whom does the hero serve?" to predict leadership patterns before they play out.
Presenter: Pavel Shchelin
Duration: 8 weeks studying the lives of Greeks and Roman Lycurgus, Alcibiades, Lysander, Pompey, Caesar, and Octavian –as living patterns, not dead men.
Live classes are on Wednesdays at 4-6pm Eastern Time, starting March 18th through May 6th, 2026.
Price: $180 USD - Involved patrons can get a 10% discount. Apply your code at checkout.
Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/plutarch-symbolism-in-history
=====
🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

445 - Understanding the Icons of Holy Week Apr 10, 2026

Show notes

This is a repost of a past video where I discussed the icons of Holy Week in the Orthodox Church and how they relate to each other as a unified symbolic pattern. Have a blessed Pascha.
YouTube version: https://youtu.be/h55O4Kxs6tU
Join us at the Symbolic World Summit | May 14-16 | Ohio | Keynote speakers: Jonathan Pageau, Fr. Josiah Trenham, Mary Harrington, Dcn. Seraphim Rohlin, Kale Zelden, Annie Crawford, and Heather Pollington
Buy your tickets: https://symbolicworldsummit.com/
Timestamps:
00:00 - Start / Introduction
00:48 - Palm Sunday (Entry into Jerusalem)
05:34 - Holy Monday (Bridegroom / Crown of Thorns)
07:54 - Holy Tuesday (Wise & Foolish Virgins)
10:15 - Holy Wednesday (Washing of the Feet)
12:37 - Holy Thursday (Mystical Supper)
14:36 - Holy Friday (Crucifixion)
19:27 - Holy Saturday (Descent into Hades / Anastasis)
21:47 - Resurrection & Empty Tomb
24:09 - Burial & Laying in the Tomb
26:20 - Conclusion / Meaning of Holy Week
=====
NEW COURSE: Plutarch: Symbolism in History with Pavel Shchelin
The problem with history is that you are in it. Plutarch teaches us to read power symbolically—asking "whom does the hero serve?" to predict leadership patterns before they play out.
Presenter: Pavel Shchelin
Duration: 8 weeks studying the lives of Greeks and Roman Lycurgus, Alcibiades, Lysander, Pompey, Caesar, and Octavian –as living patterns, not dead men.
Live classes are on Wednesdays at 4-6pm Eastern Time, starting March 18th through May 6th, 2026.
Price: $180 USD - Involved patrons can get a 10% discount. Apply your code at checkout.
Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/plutarch-symbolism-in-history
=====
🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:
-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5
-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

444 - "FATHER": A symbolic analysis of Kanye West’s song and music video Apr 08, 2026

Show notes

With the release of Ye’s new album, Bully, many have asked about the music video for the song called “Father.” While the video is surreal and AI generated, it is not without meaning or structure. If you pay attention to broader, context, patterns, and the relationships between images, a coherent meaning begins to emerge.
YouTube version: https://youtu.be/BG2psRcPH7o
My review of Ye's album Bully: https://x.com/PageauJonathan/status/2038374009382097289
Ye: Father music video: https://youtu.be/HBMy-y2wb4I?si=OKlf4_0c8y1zJwV1
SUMMIT 2026: Join us for the Symbolic World Summit 2026! Speakers include Fr. Josiah Trenham, Mary Harrington, Jonathan Pageau, Dn. Seraphim Rohlin, and others.
Date: May 14-16
Place: Broadview Heights, OH
Don't miss out! https://symbolicworldsummit.com/
=====
NEW COURSE: Plutarch: Symbolism in History with Pavel Shchelin
The problem with history is that you are in it. Plutarch teaches us to read power symbolically—asking "whom does the hero serve?" to predict leadership patterns before they play out.
Presenter: Pavel Shchelin
Duration: 8 weeks studying the lives of Greeks and Roman Lycurgus, Alcibiades, Lysander, Pompey, Caesar, and Octavian –as living patterns, not dead men.
Live classes are on Wednesdays at 4-6pm Eastern Time, starting March 18th through May 6th, 2026.
Price: $180 USD - Involved patrons can get a 10% discount. Apply your code at checkout.
Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/plutarch-symbolism-in-history
=====
🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

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