The Short Coat: An Inside Look at Getting Into and Getting Through Medical School
The HONEST guide to medical school, featuring real students from the University of Iowa Carver College of Medicine–skip this show if you’d rather not know (and hate laughter)!
Family expectations, culture clashes, and career priorities: Who’s the A-Hole? (Recess Rehash)
Dec 04, 2025
[Due to Thanksgiving break, we have no new episode this week for you, but here’s a good one from our back catalog!]
When your boyfriend’s an OB/GYN and your friends can’t chill
We’re passing judgment, because someone has to. This week’s Reddit-fueled medical panel takes on uncomfortable questions that your group chat definitely isn’t ready for: Is dating an OB-GYN inherently weird? Should your partner be your #1 even when you’re literally delivering babies at 3 AM? And what happens when your parents think taking three days off is career suicide?
We drag a few well-meaning but very misinformed relatives, unpack how culture collides with medicine, and dissect how med students actually keep their relationships alive. Plus, one brave listener dares to ask: “Can I move out of my family’s one-bedroom and still be a good daughter?”
Expect spicy, real talk, and a few questionable ideas we’re choosing not to redact.
Episode credits:
Producer: Holly Hemann
Co-hosts: Srishti Mathur, Samantha Gardner, Kate Timboe, Alexis Baker
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
We need to know more about you! https://surveys.blubrry.com/theshortcoat (email a screenshot of the confirmation screen to theshortcoats@gmail.com with your mailing address and Dave will mail you a thank you package!)
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
The Universal Experience that Medicine Hates Talking About Most
Nov 27, 2025
[Content warning: this episode contains frank discussions of death and dying that some listeners may want to skip.]
Doctors need to actually ask patients what a good death looks like to them
Medical students learn so much anatomy and pathophysiology, the social determinants of health, and the practice of medicine. Meanwhile managing death—one of two things every single patient experiences—gets squeezed into a few short lectures. It can sometimes feel like hospice and palliative care are afterthoughts.
Of course, med students train to be healers, to fix what is broken. But a conversation about the end of life, and the patients’ goals for that most solemn event, is so important that it’d be nice if physicians and physician assistants could do that without sweating through their scrubs.
That 89-year-old patient joking about being “ready to kick the bucket” needs a provider who can stop and talk when they’re asked what dying actually looks like. The family demanding “everything be done” deserves someone who stops to explain what “everything” really means. And the chef who refuses the feeding tube isn’t being stubborn—he’s making the most rational decision about quality of life you’ll hear all week.
PA2 Chloe Kepros, M2s Sarah Nichols and Nick Lembezeder, and M1 Jonah Albrecht discuss the economics driving end-of-life care costs, explore why palliative care should start at diagnosis instead of six months before death, and examine how their medical training creates providers who can make speedy life-and-death decisions for their patients, but don’t have time to process watching them die.
Episode credits:
Producer: Chloe Kepros
Co-hosts: Jonah Albrecht, Sarah Nichols, Nick Lembezeder
The views and opinions expressed on this podcast belong solely to the individuals who share them. They do not represent the positions of the University of Iowa, the Carver College of Medicine, or the State of Iowa. All discussions are intended for entertainment purposes only and should not be taken as professional, legal, financial, or medical advice. Nothing said on this podcast should be used to diagnose, treat, or prevent any medical condition. Always seek qualified professional guidance for personal decisions.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
We need to know more about you! https://surveys.blubrry.com/theshortcoat (email a screenshot of the confirmation screen to theshortcoats@gmail.com with your mailing address and Dave will mail you a thank you package!)
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Harsh Truth: Most Pre-Meds Don’t Get Accepted
Nov 20, 2025
Three med students who didn’t get in at first talk about why.
Thousands of med school applicants are going to feel the sting of rejection at the end of this cycle. We hope YOU aren’t one of them, but if you are, take heart–this is but one year among the many years you’ll be working toward your goal.
In the meantime, co-hosts M2 Daniel Haws, M3 Fallon Jung, and M2 Cara Arrasmith talk about why they had to try an extra time or two–what they did wrong and how they fixed it–with CCOM admissions expert Rachel Shulista. Stop wasting thousands of dollars on medical school applications that go nowhere. This episode breaks down the reasons admissions committees reject candidates and shows you how to build the clinical experience and academic profile that gets you accepted!
The real reasons applications crash and burn: applying late because you thought October deadlines were suggestions, having little clinical experience beyond watching Grey’s Anatomy, and writing personal statements that sound like generic healthcare brochures. We break down why you need to get feedback from admissions–it might be the most valuable conversation you never wanted to have, and how Daniel actually turned down an acceptance to reapply to his dream school (note well: the all-knowing geniuses on Reddit were not happy about this).
Listener Chunkster is freaking out that they haven’t heard already, so Rachel explains what happens during those months of radio silence as you wait for word on your app, and why most decisions come in the final pool anyway. And we talk about what Chunkster should do to keep the inner demons at bay while they wait. Plus, we explore the delicate art of the “humblebrag” in medical school applications and why your personal statement shouldn’t read like a Wikipedia page about the medical profession.
Whether you’re waiting to hear back, nursing a rejection, or wondering if you’re cut out for this med school thing, we’ve got the real talk you need to survive the application gauntlet.
Episode credits:
Producer: Dave Etler
Co-hosts: Daniel Haws, Fallon Jung, Cara Arrasmith
Guest: Rachel Shulista, CCOM Admissions
The views and opinions expressed on this podcast belong solely to the individuals who share them. They do not represent the positions of the University of Iowa, the Carver College of Medicine, or the State of Iowa. All discussions are intended for entertainment purposes only and should not be taken as professional, legal, financial, or medical advice. Nothing said on this podcast should be used to diagnose, treat, or prevent any medical condition. Always seek qualified professional guidance for personal decisions.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
We need to know more about you! https://surveys.blubrry.com/theshortcoat (email a screenshot of the confirmation screen to theshortcoats@gmail.com with your mailing address and Dave will mail you a thank you package!)
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
The Rural Doc Crisis and the Med Students Who Plan to Be Where They’re Most Needed
Nov 13, 2025
The Truths and Solutions for Small-Town Healthcare.
We’re talking about rural medicine, where the needs are huge, the systems are broken, and sometimes, you just have to trust the process. Did you know that rural Americans have only 13.1 docs per 10,000 people compared to 31.2 in urban areas? Yeah, the need is real. But why are these students signing up for the challenge? And what the heck does a $50 billion Senate program have to say about processed cheese slices?
M2s Srishti Mathur, Megan Perry, Kassidy Brady, and M1 Megan Ahman grew up seeing the healthcare gaps firsthand, and now they’re dreaming of a career in rural medicine. From small town Iowa, Nevada, and Illinois, they explain that coming from a smaller area often fosters a skewed (but positive) perception of healthcare. Learn why practicing in a smaller community will allow them to wear multiple hats and take on greater roles, not just as a physician but as advocates for public health.
We look at the incentive programs designed to lure doctors into underserved areas, offering significant loan forgiveness if you practice primary care rurally for a number of years. We then open up the debate on compulsory rural service (a common practice in other countries). Does it work? We also discuss the new $50 billion Senate program intended to transform rural healthcare, analyzing the requirement for physicians to take continuing education on nutrition, and Feds’ barring of low-income people from buying “non-nutritious” foods (whatever that means).
You’ll discover the crucial pros and cons of rural practice, the opportunities rural physicians have to offer a wider medical practice than would be practical in an urban setting. The crew examines how telehealth might bridge the specialist gap, not just for patient-to-physician interaction, but for physician-to-physician collaboration. We also explore the valuable lessons learned from required under-resourced community rotations, emphasizing that knowing where patients come from and learning the community culture is beneficial, even for future urban specialists.
Finally, stick around as we take an unexpected, macroscopic look at everyday office objects and ultra-processed food–things look great from a distance but are confusing, even off-putting, when you zoom in; but can the co-hosts figure out what they’re seeing?
Episode credits:
Producer: Megan Perry, Kassidy Brady
Co-hosts: Srishti Mathur, Megan Ahmann
The views and opinions expressed on this podcast belong solely to the individuals who share them. They do not represent the positions of the University of Iowa, the Carver College of Medicine, or the State of Iowa. All discussions are intended for entertainment purposes only and should not be taken as professional, legal, financial, or medical advice. Nothing said on this podcast should be used to diagnose, treat, or prevent any medical condition. Always seek qualified professional guidance for personal decisions.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
We need to know more about you! https://surveys.blubrry.com/theshortcoat (email a screenshot of the confirmation screen to theshortcoats@gmail.com with your mailing address and Dave will mail you a thank you package!)
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Med Student Leaders: Juggling Roles at School and Home
Nov 06, 2025
Is work-life “balance” the right framing?
Is “work-life balance” a myth in medical school? What do successful students do to manage leadership positions, marriage, kids, and academics?
Our co-hosts–M2s Zach Grissom, Megan Perry, Sarah Upton, and Chase Larsson–lead specialty interest groups, student government, advocacy organizations, and their learning communities; all of their roles compete for their time. Then someone asks if they want to start a new thing, and somehow they say yes. even if they say no. It’s a mystery how that happens.
We break down what happens when “getting involved” becomes “drowning in responsibility,” especially with that otherwise pretty sweet 18-month preclinical timeline that makes succession planning feel like a game of musical chairs with first-years who are still learning how to med school.
But here’s where it gets interesting. These aren’t just resume builders—our students are genuinely passionate about their causes, from organ donation advocacy to single-payer healthcare organizing to…podcasting! They’re learning that leadership isn’t about balance; it’s about accommodation. Sometimes the leadership thing gets bumped for the anatomy exam. Sometimes you’re editing a newsletter while your kid bounces off the walls. Sometimes you realize you’re not actually superhuman, and that’s okay.
Also, Short Coat listener Evan asks us how do we manage a parenting, marriage, and medical school without losing your minds? Our conversation gets brutally honest about the reality of parenting through M1 year, the myth of work-life balance, and why some students might feel “infantilized” by the medical school experience while others are changing car batteries in business attire between classes or trying to meal prep while being tutored (that doesn’t work, BTW).
Episode credits:
Producer: Zach Grissom
Co-hosts: Zach Grissom, Megan Perry, Sarah Upton, Chase Larsson
The views and opinions expressed on this podcast belong solely to the individuals who share them. They do not represent the positions of the University of Iowa, the Carver College of Medicine, or the State of Iowa. All discussions are intended for entertainment purposes only and should not be taken as professional, legal, financial, or medical advice. Nothing said on this podcast should be used to diagnose, treat, or prevent any medical condition. Always seek qualified professional guidance for personal decisions.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
We need to know more about you! https://surveys.blubrry.com/theshortcoat (email a screenshot of the confirmation screen to theshortcoats@gmail.com with your mailing address and Dave will mail you a thank you package!)
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Med School Stereotypes Shattered: What We’re Really Like Inside
Oct 30, 2025
Turns out medical students are regular humans who happen to need to memorize the Krebs cycle
We’ve all got that mental image of medical students – the type-A perfectionists grinding through textbooks even on the porcelain throne, right? Well, our first-year medical students at Iowa are about to blow up every assumption you’ve ever had. Turns out the people memorizing a zillion anatomical structures aren’t exactly who you’d expect.
M1s Chase McInville, Lillian Schmidt, Jonah Albrecht, and Abbie Townsend reveal why your pre-med study plans are probably useless, how a hockey ref’s confidence translates to patient care, and why some medical students refuse to study on Saturdays. We explore the real traits that matter (spoiler: it’s not being a genius), bust the myth about cutthroat competition, and discover why medical school might actually be more collaborative than your average undergrad group project.
Plus, we settle the burning question every pre-med wants answered: can you actually prepare for medical school, or should you just go backpacking in Europe instead? These Short Coats share what non-medical experiences shaped them most, from building houses with Habitat for Humanity to working political campaigns to reffing hockey games to farming vegetables with zero agricultural background.
This isn’t your typical “day in the life” medical school content. We’re talking about the messy reality of learning to learn again, the unexpected diversity of personalities in short white coats, and why the smartest thing these students do might be admitting they don’t know everything.
The episode ends with the Short Coats working together to hash out the vibes of med student life. Hint: there should really only be five nerves.
Episode credits:
Producer: Jonah Albrecht
Co-hosts: Abbie Townsend, Chase McInville, Lillian Schmidt, Jonah Albrecht
The views and opinions expressed on this podcast belong solely to the individuals who share them. They do not represent the positions of the University of Iowa, the Carver College of Medicine, or the State of Iowa. All discussions are intended for entertainment purposes only and should not be taken as professional, legal, financial, or medical advice. Nothing said on this podcast should be used to diagnose, treat, or prevent any medical condition. Always seek qualified professional guidance for personal decisions.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
We need to know more about you! https://surveys.blubrry.com/theshortcoat (email a screenshot of the confirmation screen to theshortcoats@gmail.com with your mailing address and Dave will mail you a thank you package!)
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
My Family Thinks I’m a Doctor Already
Oct 23, 2025
What med students wish their families actually understood about medical school
Your family means well… but when you start med school, suddenly every ache, rash, and conspiracy theory in the house is your domain! In this episode, the Short Coat crew gets real about what it’s like to be seen as a doctor when you’re really drowning in flashcards.
M2s Srishti Mathur and Nick Abouassally, and M1s Anna Royer, and Drew Bolisay trade stories about how their families misread med school life — from assuming they’re “on the wards” in year one to asking them to diagnose random symptoms at family gatherings.
They unpack what kind of support actually helps (spoiler: food) and what doesn’t (“It’s just a season of life, honey”). You’ll hear heartfelt moments about parental pride, intergenerational tension, and cultural expectations — plus a final improv game that proves even fake medicine is hard work.
If you’ve ever tried to explain Step 1 to your grandma, this one’s for you.
Episode credits:
Producer: Dave Etler
Co-hosts: Srishti Mathur, Nick Abouassally, Anna Royer, Drew Bolisay
The views and opinions expressed on this podcast belong solely to the individuals who share them. They do not represent the positions of the University of Iowa, the Carver College of Medicine, or the State of Iowa. All discussions are intended for entertainment purposes only and should not be taken as professional, legal, financial, or medical advice. Nothing said on this podcast should be used to diagnose, treat, or prevent any medical condition. Always seek qualified professional guidance for personal decisions.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
We need to know more about you! https://surveys.blubrry.com/theshortcoat (email a screenshot of the confirmation screen to theshortcoats@gmail.com with your mailing address and Dave will mail you a thank you package!)
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
From Bartending to Bedside: What Our Pre-Med Jobs Taught Us About Medicine
Oct 16, 2025
No med student starts with a blank slate
If you’re thinking of starting over and going to med school, you might wonder what your previous jobs have done to prepare you for it. Good news: your old jobs and activities might matter more than your GPA ever will.
In this episode, M2s Samantha Gardner, Sarah Upton, Nick Lembezeder, and Srishti Mathur unpack the skills they didn’t know they’d use in medicine—the ones they gained by being not-a-doctor. From surviving music juries to calming drunk uncs, from educating bros about consent to making the hard calls without enough information, they’ve found the road to medicine is rarely straight—and that’s probably a good thing.
Also, why confidence is overrated and how to react when given feedback (hint: STFU). Oh, and we hear from a listener who wants to know if we were super studious in high school. We try to let him down gently.
Episode credits:
Producer: Dave Etler
Co-hosts: Srishti Mathur, Nick Lembezeder, Samantha Gardner, Sarah Upton
The views and opinions expressed on this podcast belong solely to the individuals who share them. They do not represent the official positions of the University of Iowa, the Carver College of Medicine, or the State of Iowa. All discussions are intended for entertainment purposes only and should not be taken as professional, legal, financial, or medical advice. Nothing said on this podcast should be used to diagnose, treat, or prevent any medical condition. Always seek qualified professional guidance for personal decisions.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
We need to know more about you! https://surveys.blubrry.com/theshortcoat (email a screenshot of the confirmation screen to theshortcoats@gmail.com with your mailing address and Dave will mail you a thank you package!)
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Federal Loan Caps & Medical School Debt: What Future Doctors Need to Know
Oct 09, 2025
Medical School is Now More of a Gamble
Medical school just became a lot more expensive for some students and potentially impossible for others, thanks to the “Big Beautiful Bill.” We sit down with Chris Roling, University of Iowa’s financial aid guru, alongside M1 students Anna Royer and Isa Perez-Sandi, and M2 Maria Schapfel, to break down the most significant changes to medical student financial aid in decades. The new federal loan cap of $200,000 sounds generous until you realize the average four-year cost at public schools exceeds $280,000 and private schools hit $390,000. We talk through what happens when roughly a third of the student body already borrow more than the new limit would allow.
Chris explains how private loans work, why your credit score suddenly matters as much as your board scores, and what interest rates actually look like when federal options disappear. We examine the new Repayment Assistance Plan that replaces income-driven repayment, run the numbers on what unexpected life events could cost you, and discuss whether Public Service Loan Forgiveness is worth banking on (spoiler: Chris says don’t count on it).
Anna, Isa, and Maria share how these changes would’ve altered their medical school decisions, particularly for out-of-state students facing tuition bills that federal loans won’t touch. We also explore three-year MD programs as a potential cost-saving measure, debate whether institutions will actually lower tuition or just pass costs to students, and consider how these changes might further stratify who gets to become a doctor.
Co-hosts: Maria Schapfel, Anna Royer, Isa Perez-Sandi
Guest: Chris Roling, CCOM Assistant Director of Financial Services
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
We need to know more about you! https://theshortcoat.com/survey (email a screenshot of the confirmation screen to theshortcoats@gmail.com with your mailing address and Dave will mail you a thank you package!)
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
PA Week: Don’t Sleep on this Career!
Oct 02, 2025
MDs have main character energy, but don’t ignore Physician Assistants.
We talk a lot about medical students on this podcast, but at Iowa we also have a physician assistant program, one that’s very well regarded, nationally. So to kick off national PA Week, we’ve got a bunch of PA students to talk about their profession. PA2s Emily Mazzeo and Abby Crow, and PA1s David Walker Hofbauer and Jake Groh talk about what it’s like to study alongside MD students (something unique to Iowa), how they view their place in healthcare, how they knew they wanted to be a PA, and where they see their profession heading in the next few years. Hint: their profession is the 10th fastest-growing career in the US, with an enviable work-life balance, more mobility than MDs, and similar opportunities to specialize or go into primary care.
Co-hosts: Emily Mazzeo, Abby Crow, David Walker Hofbauer, Jake Groh
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
We need to know more about you! https://surveys.blubrry.com/theshortcoat (email a screenshot of the confirmation screen to theshortcoats@gmail.com with your mailing address and Dave will mail you a thank you package!)
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
From Broke to Bank: Money Lessons Med School Skips
Sep 25, 2025
Med School ROI: Still Worth the Debt?
Doctors make bank, so why do they feel poor? We’re breaking down the brutal reality of medical money myths—starting with the lie that your six-figure salary will solve everything. With financial advisor Tyler Olson, M4s Jeff Goddard and Trent Gilbert, and M2 Luke Geis ask whether med school is still a good investment or just an expensive trap wrapped in prestige.
We talk always-on-the-verge-of-disappearing Public Service Loan Forgiveness, we drag lifestyle creep, go full scorched-earth on bad budgeting, and explain why even a half-million bucks a year won’t automatically save you from living paycheck to paycheck. If you’ve ever looked at an attending and thought “they must have it made,” this episode will explain why they often don’t.
Learn what to do before residency, how to prep for your 4th-year expenses, why disability insurance might be more important than your board scores, and whether that $15/month budget app is actually worth it. Spoiler: Tyler prefers sticky notes on mirrors.
Oh—and if you thought $275K was a lot, wait until taxes take their cut.
[URL template for episode https://media.blubrry.com/theshortcoat/podcast.uiowa.edu/com/osa/CHANGETHIS.mp3]
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
We need to know more about you! https://surveys.blubrry.com/theshortcoat (email a screenshot of the confirmation screen to theshortcoats@gmail.com with your mailing address and Dave will mail you a thank you package!)
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Going on Leave: The Power Move No One Talks About in Med School
Sep 18, 2025
What med schools don’t tell you about hitting pause.
Turns out, pausing med school can actually be the smartest career move. Whether you’re spiraling in burnout, floundering in step prep, or just eyeballing that MPH, here’s an option you should consider: taking a leave of absence.
MD/PhD student Riley Behan-Bush, and M2s Srishti Mathur, Megan Perry, and Jay Miller take on the taboo option you’ll only find in the student handbook—what happens when med students hit pause. From Riley’s built-in MD/PhD “leave” to Srishti’s public health ambitions and Dave’s stats on distress, the Short Coats break down the reasons people step back… and why they return stronger.
Of course, going on leave isn’t without risks. The crew spills on insurance nightmares, loan limbo, and the heartbreak of watching your classmates match without you. But they also dish on planning your leave, making it productive, and protecting your peace.
Look to your left. Look to your right. Y’all are going to graduate.
Episode credits:
Producer: Dave Etler
Co-hosts: Riley Behan-Bush, Srishti Mathur, Jay Miller, Megan Perry
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
We need to know more about you! https://surveys.blubrry.com/theshortcoat (email a screenshot of the confirmation screen to theshortcoats@gmail.com with your mailing address and Dave will mail you a thank you package!)
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Feedback is Data, Not Devastation.
Sep 11, 2025
How to Take Negative Feedback And Use It to Win in Med School
Recently, our admissions coordinator Rachel was surprised by the reaction from an applicant CCOM chose not to admit. She’d set aside time to give the applicant some feedback on their application–an extra service we provide those who weren’t successful in their bid to study medicine here. But instead of a thoughtful reaction to her notes, the unsuccessful applicant told her that they “didn’t agree with any of that.”
The problem with this attitude is that in medical school feedback is never ending! Students get notes on interpersonal skills, professional behaviors, clinical skills, your knowledge base. And the feedback comes from everyone involved: simulated patients, actual patients, faculty, residents, nurses, even each other! Sometimes the feedback is formal and written; sometimes it’s verbal; and sometimes all you get is a raised eyebrow or a smile. Sometimes it’s rough, other times it’s SMART.
So M2s Zach Grissom, Sahana Sarin, Srishti Mathur, and Jay Miller give their take on this vital skill in medicine: using feedback as data, as fuel for growth. They share stories of getting useful and useless feedback. And whether you love it or hate it, you’ll leave with a playbook for using feedback to boost your success in medical school and your career.
Co-hosts: Zach Grissom, Srishti Mathur, Sahana Sarin, Jay Miller
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
We need to know more about you! https://surveys.blubrry.com/theshortcoat (email a screenshot of the confirmation screen to theshortcoats@gmail.com with your mailing address and Dave will mail you a thank you package!)
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
They Way Most Docs are Paid Doesn’t Lead to Healthier Patients
Sep 04, 2025
How the system pays doctors can change healthcare outcomes—sometimes in scary ways.
The way docs are paid can make patients sicker…or can lead to healthier ones. The payment schemes most docs work under incentivize them to fix patients, while others motivate them to prevent illness—and geriatrician Dr. Jonathan “Nathan” Flacker is here to explain why. This episode rips the curtain off RVUs, fee-for-service traps, and the real reason your doc is rushing through your visit (hint: it’s not personal, it’s math).
We dig into ChenMed’s wild idea: what if clinics got paid to keep you out of the hospital? Turns out, when money flows toward health instead of procedures, everyone wins. Except maybe the $400M proton beam facility (for the record, we love proton beams, but you might not need them if you can avoid cancer altogether).
Is concierge-style medicine only for the wealthy? What happens when you build “rich person care” for low-income seniors? And how many patients can a doc see well before it all breaks? If you’re dreaming of a career where you actually help people instead of just clicking boxes—this one’s a wake-up call.
Also: Love calls, RVU debt, and why pajama time should be illegal.
Episode credits:
Producer: Jeff Goddard
Co-hosts: Riley Behan-Bush, Zach Grissom, Alex Nigg
Guest: Dr. Jonathan “Nathan” Flacker, ChenMed
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
We need to know more about you! https://surveys.blubrry.com/theshortcoat (email a screenshot of the confirmation screen to theshortcoats@gmail.com with your mailing address and Dave will mail you a thank you package!)
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Family expectations, culture clashes, and career priorities: Who’s the A-Hole?
Aug 28, 2025
When your boyfriend’s an OB/GYN and your friends can’t chill
We’re passing judgment, because someone has to. This week’s Reddit-fueled medical panel takes on uncomfortable questions that your group chat definitely isn’t ready for: Is dating an OB-GYN inherently weird? Should your partner be your #1 even when you’re literally delivering babies at 3 AM? And what happens when your parents think taking three days off is career suicide?
We drag a few well-meaning but very misinformed relatives, unpack how culture collides with medicine, and dissect how med students actually keep their relationships alive. Plus, one brave listener dares to ask: “Can I move out of my family’s one-bedroom and still be a good daughter?”
Expect spicy, real talk, and a few questionable ideas we’re choosing not to redact.
Episode credits:
Producer: Holly Hemann
Co-hosts: Srishti Mathur, Samantha Gardner, Kate Timboe, Alexis Baker
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
We need to know more about you! https://surveys.blubrry.com/theshortcoat (email a screenshot of the confirmation screen to theshortcoats@gmail.com with your mailing address and Dave will mail you a thank you package!)
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
From Ecuador to Iowa, Ortho to Community Healthcare: the Last of the Summers
Aug 21, 2025
These M2s made the most of their last summer “break.”
Summer in med school: is it beach vibes or big-doings? Turns out, it’s a weird mix of both—and we’re here for it. In this episode, we get the inside scoop from second-year med students Tyler Pollock, Cara Arrasmith, Anjali Puranam, and Sophia Nopoulos on how they spent their first “break.” Spoiler: it includes orthopedic research, global health rotations in Ecuador, community hospital crash courses, and teaching the next wave of M1s!
We’re also talking about gap years. Yep, those mysterious in-between years that admissions committees don’t actually hate. In fact, they might be your greatest flex.
Whether you’re curious what a summer research fellowship really looks like or wondering if you’ll be the only 27-year-old in your class (you won’t), this episode proves you’ve got options—and none of them are bad.
Stick around for pediatric murmurs, shoulder anatomy, and why some med students literally dream in Spanish.
We need to know more about you! https://surveys.blubrry.com/theshortcoat (email a screenshot of the confirmation screen to theshortcoats@gmail.com with your mailing address and Dave will mail you a thank you package!)
Episode credits:
Producers: Cara Arrington, Dave Etler
Co-hosts: Cara Arrington, Tyler Pollock, Anjali Puranam, Sohphia Nopoulos
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
DNP Doubts, Prepping for Patients, and Smarts Self-Doubt–listener questions answered!
Aug 14, 2025
Real answers for your real med school dilemmas.
We’ve had some listener question stacking up like it’s the ER waiting room at shift change—and now we’re finally calling some names. This week, we’re clearing the board and giving straight talk on everything from whether Rainey might regret her choice of DNP over med school, Worried Traveler’s fears of surviving their first clinical rotations, and Zion’s untested study habits. You’ll hear why reputation beats job title, the art of asking questions without tanking the vibe, and some ideas on making the transition from an easier undergrad education to med school madness. M4s Hend Al-Kaylani, Maryam Ahmad, and Madeline Ungs confront the awkward task of making friends in med school and why it’s okay if you’re not instantly every resident/faculty favorite.
Bonus web feature! If you fear you never learned to study, visit our this episode’s webpage for a video series by Dave and friends–Zion, this one’s for you!
Episode credits:
Producer: Dave Etler
Co-hosts: Hind Al-Kaylani, Maryam Ahmed, Madeline Ungs\
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
What Residency Program Directors Actually Want
Aug 07, 2025
And the real reason you’re not getting clear advice about applying to residency.
Listener Baffled J. Whoseadaddy (not his real name) asked us why his med school kids complain that the residency application process is confusing and “a black hole.” This week, hosts Dave Etler, Chase Larsson, Zach Grissom, and Madeline Ungs unpack why no one can seem to agree on what residency programs want… and what they actually do.
Spoiler: it’s not a first-author publication, committee position, or flawless grades.
They’re joined by recent Carver College of Medicine grad Dr. Teneme Konne, now a full-fledged family medicine attending (and “professional yapper”), who spills the truth on how programs really evaluate applicants. From what happens behind closed doors during interview debriefs to how introverts can still stand out, we break it all down.
If you’re sick of performative CV-building, tired of mixed signals (literally), and unsure how to be “authentic” without sounding like a TED Talk… this one’s for you.
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Placentas, Prostates, and Purple Goggles (Recess Rehash)
Jul 31, 2025
Medical students share insights on hitting milestones and navigating transitions
[We’re on vacation, so enjoy this recent show in case you missed it!]
The rollercoaster of medical school transitions is hitting some peaks, from the first nerve-wracking days of clerkships to the unglamorous realities of OB-GYN rotations. M3 Elvire Nguepnang, M2 Gizzy Lundquist, M3 Jeff Goddard, and M1 Katherine Yu open up about the leap from textbooks to patient care, beginning advanced clerkships, and just staying on the path—and why it’s okay to feel a little lost. Along the way, they share their experiences with delivering placentas, unpack how seemingly minor lessons from preclinical years suddenly become crucial in the real world, and the new sensory ability they’d choose if they could.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Slap Some Moldy Bread On It: Blechardy! (Recess Rehash)
Jul 24, 2025
What do med students know that isn’t medicine?
[We’re on vacation, so enjoy this recent show in case you missed it!]
Do med students know what ancient doctors used for pain relief, or the shape of wombat poop? Join us for Blechardy! the trivia game show that involves a certain amount of suffering! Contestants answer medical and pop culture questions—but with potentially disgusting jellybeans that make any actual knowledge meaningless.
This week’s medical students: M3 Jeff Goddard, and M1s Cara Arrasmith, Tyler Pollock, and Keely Carney, with quizmaster Audra King, battle through ancient medicine facts, Iowa trivia, and the weirdest animal knowledge. Who will emerge victorious, and who will regret every bite? We don’t even know, and we were there!
Along the way, we discuss podcast rivalries (should we start fake beef with Joe Rogan?) and the questionable benefits of coffee beans digested by animals. Come for the trivia, stay for the suffering.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Medfluencers and Patient Education: Helpful or Risky? (Recess Rehash)
Jul 17, 2025
How future doctors are navigating social media’s impact on public education.
[We’re on vacation, so enjoy this recent show in case you missed it!]
How can a well-meaning medfluencer be sure they’re actually helping? M1 Zach Grissom, M2 Fallon Jung, M3 Jeff Goddard, and M4 Matt Engelken sit down with third-year DO student Nik Bletnitsky to discuss the role of social media in medical education. Current and Future doctors are increasingly using these platforms to share medical knowledge—but, even if you’re careful to offer the best information, what are the hidden dangers?
The conversation covers the sometimes blurry line between education, misinformation, and contradicting someone’s doctor’s advice. How disclaimers work (or don’t), and why the Dunning-Kruger effect can turn a curious patient into an overconfident self-diagnoser.
Should doctors be influencers? Can patients trust what they see online? And is it possible to make medical knowledge accessible without accidentally making things worse?
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
She Got Into Med School… But Now She’s Not Sure (Recess Rehash)
Jul 10, 2025
Turning down that med school acceptance might cost more than you think.
[We’re on vacation, so enjoy this recent show in case you missed it!]
Listener “ARM” got into medical school—cue the confetti—but now that reality’s set in, she’s not feeling great about her only acceptance. The school is small, expensive, and far from home. Should she go anyway or risk reapplying in hopes of a better fit next year? MD/PhD students Michael Arrington, Shruthi Kondaboina, Jessica Smith, and M1 Maria Schapfel weigh the real costs of walking away from an acceptance, from the red flags admissions committees look for to the gamble of getting in again. They get honest about finances, family, and the very unsexy truth about how much the campus “vibe” actually matters. Plus, what to say if you do it anyway.
Bonus: the MD/PhD students dish about why they took that road, while Maria counters with why MD is better for her.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Sheriff of Sodium: AI Will Replace Doctors (Reality Check!)
Jul 03, 2025
Docs are in denial, but the economic incentives make it inevitable
You’re working hard to be (or become) a doctor — now a bot might take your place? The Sheriff of Sodium, Dr. Brian Carmody, is back on the Short Coat to say what nobody wants to hear but might need to: yes, AI in medicine is real, and the value proposition makes docs’ replacement inevitable. From primary care AI to image-heavy fields like pathology, we’re talking actual use cases.
We break down physician automation, the AMA’s waning influence, and why corporations – and even patients – might be the real force behind AI-driven doctor job loss. If you thought medical school guaranteed career security, this might shake your certainty. But there are specialties and human-only qualities that you can lean into for a bright future amidst the bots.
Then the Sheriff, M3 Jeff Goddard, MD/PhD Miranda Schene, M2s Sarah Lowenberg and Taryn O’Brien pivot to a deeply personal listener question: should a pre-med student push through to med school while struggling with mental health, like her parents want her to? Or take time off to regroup?
Episode credits:
Producer: Jeff Goddard
Co-hosts: Miranda Schene, Sarah Lowenberg, Taryn O’Brien
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
How a Walk in the Park Sparked a Health Movement, ft. David Sabgir, MD
Jun 26, 2025
A cardiologist ditched the standard lecture and took a walk with his patients. You can too!
Cardiologist David Sabgir was tired of telling patients to exercise, so he did something ridiculous…and it spawned a movement. Walk With A Doc began with a simple idea: don’t just recommend lifestyle changes—live them, with your patients, in the wild. In this episode, we unpack the surprising power of walking with a community instead of talking at patients about exercise, and how a one-mile stroll has turned into an international public health initiative. Co-hosts M3 Jeff Goddard, and M1s Sydney Skuodas, Michael Arrington, and Zach Grissom are also asking: what happens when docs and med students bring their kids, their real lives, and their full humanity into community care? For some, it could be a real antidote to burnout, and the solution might be hiding in the park—with some sneakers and your neighbors. The cardiologist that stared it all shares how failing at patient motivation led to something wildly more effective.
This episode is your unofficial permission slip to stop recommending change and start doing it.
Episode credits:
Producer: Jeff Goddard
Co-hosts: Zach Grissom, Michael Arrington, Sydney Skuodas
Guest: David Sabgir, MD
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
AI in Med School: Helpful Tool or Total Crutch?
Jun 19, 2025
MD and PA students reflect on what AI gets right—and what still makes them nervous.
“How are you using AI in med school?” That’s the question Dave posed to his co-hosts this week. Near-M3s Fallon Jung and Amanda Litka and almost-PA3 Julie Vuong discuss AI-fueled study sessions, and Dave points out a Google tool that turns docs into knowledge. They talk about what helps, what haunts, and what might accidentally erase their clinical instincts. Meanwhile, Fallon admits to looking to a robot to plan a bachelorette party. Amanda wants to ditch the white coat. And strong mints and clementines are the secret to surviving 3AM bowel resections. Also on the docket: what they’ve learned in their first few months seeing patients, OB night shift scaries, and which specialist they’d rather be stranded on an island with.
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Your Thesis Won’t Change the World (and Here’s Why)
Jun 12, 2025
The path to discovery is paved with bureaucracy
Einstein was a patent clerk when he first proposed his famous equation that explained our universe…something that could never happen today. This week, we’re calling out the slow, tangled mess that is academic science. Why do some of the best ideas never leave a lab notebook? Why are 20-somethings with world-changing potential still spending 8 years writing theses that probably won’t be read? And why does grant funding seem allergic to risk?
MD/PhD student Riley Behan-Bush is juggling frustration, big ideas, and the reality of PhD science, and M3 Jeff Goddard, MD/PhD student Jess Smith, and M1 Sarah Lowenberg question whether Einstein would even make it today. Should the NIH institute a funding lottery? Jeff thinks Dave’s ringtone means he needs to grow up. And we finish strong by turning a stack of random medical words into fake personal statements.
It’s messy, it’s a little salty, and it’ll make you wonder how anything changes in medicine or science.
Episode credits:
Producer: Dave Etler
Co-hosts: Jeff Goddard, Sarah Lowenberg, Riley Behan-Bush, Jess Smith
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
The One Truth Linking Medicine, Mortality, and Meltdown
Jun 05, 2025
Are things getting better or worse?
What if your a career in medicine, the collapse of civilization, and the maternal mortality crisis all shared one uncomfortable truth–progress doesn’t guarantee clarity, balance, or justice? In this episode, M3 Zay Edgren confesses he’s feeling a bit doomy about humanity’s chances, and M2 Taryn O’Brian feels frustrated with medicine’s successes with acute care while primary care languishes. But M3 Jeff Goddard (and Dave) are more optimistic, at least on the grand scale. What every future healthcare worker needs to ask is, “What does helping actually mean when the system is stacked with trade-offs? You’ll get insight into how real medical students think through messy, high-stakes issues—like why we’re amazing at keeping preemies alive but failing mothers, or why primary care is where the real impact happens but nobody wants to do it.
We explore what career indecision really looks like when you’re smart, driven, and yet unsure. You’ll also hear honest takes on burnout, idealism, and what med students actually think about the world they’re about to inherit—and remake.
If you’re staring down the med school track wondering what’s waiting for you on the other side, this episode hands you the context no class will. You’ll leave smarter, more grounded—and possibly nervous, but in a productive way.
Episode credits:
Producer: Dave Etler
Co-hosts: Taryn O’Brian, Jeff Goddard, and Zay Edgren
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Free Lunch, Headaches, and Holding Hearts
May 29, 2025
How friendships, food, and failing forward gets med students through the first year.
No one tells you how much of med school is powered by free pizza and shared panic. As M1s Alexis Baker, Samantha Gardner, Raegen Abbey, and Zach Grissom wrap up their first year at the University of Iowa Carver College of Medicine, we talk about what actually got them through M1: strategic free food hunting, skipping lectures for sanity, and learning to live with the sound of your own stomach during exams. This raw and ridiculous reflection features stories of biochem-induced breakdowns, unexpected weight loss, and vacation cruises gone very wrong. We also play “Vibey,” a game that perfectly captures med student emotional trauma. Bonus topics: marriage math, spring break disasters, moldy mugs, and the shock of learning how people die for credit.
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
The Unexpected Power of Student Doctors
May 22, 2025
Clinical students are sometimes the only ones who have time to listen
In the clinic, med students can feel like bystanders, but they can make all the difference for patients. M3 Jeff Goddard, M3 Tracy Chen, M2 Alex Nigg, and M4 Matt Engelken recount stories of the patients that stuck with them—some painful, some beautiful, and some just plain awkward. From OB-GYN to peds to the ER, they share how student doctors—who can often feel like tagalongs—can often be the ones offering emotional support, catching critical miscommunications, or just being the one person with time to care. We reflect on the pressure to look competent, the sting of lukewarm evaluations, and how one med student realized a patient wasn’t constipated—just heartbroken.
Also in this episode: talking to dying patients, babies are scary, and what not to say when to overwhelmed family.
Episode credits:
Producer: Dave Etler
Co-hosts: Matt Engelken, M4; Jeff Goddard, M3; Tracy Chen, M3; Alex Nigg, M2
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
From Broke to Bulletproof: The White Coat Investor’s Advice
May 15, 2025
Don’t be the doctor making $400k with $0 in the bank.
You risk your financial future by ignoring this ER doc’s advice — and Dr. Jim Dahle should know. The emergency physician and founder of The White Coat Investor joins M1s Luke Geis, Zach Grissom, Hunter Fisher, and Katherine Yu to share how he got burned early in his career — and what he did to fix it. From why disability insurance should top your post-grad checklist, to how physicians get targeted by shady financial “advisors,” to why home ownership in residency might not be the best idea — Dr. Dahle walks us through real, usable advice. He breaks down the cost of a good financial advisor, explains why index funds beat stock-picking 95% of the time, and why you should aim to be more than just an employee in medicine. We also get into financial planning for med students with kids, and why chasing hot stocks is a losing strategy, and how disability insurance can save your bacon.
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Med School’s Unique Problems (AITA)
May 08, 2025
Behind every successful doctor is someone who paid their rent or walked their dog.
What makes someone a real astronaut? Dave Etler, MD/PhD student Miranda Schene, M1 Jay Miller, and M3 Jeff Goddard blast off this episode with ass-tronaut Katy Perry before diving into Reddit’s finest med school dumpster fires. Should you crush (AKA, be vocally realistic about ) your C-average friend’s medical dreams? Is a boyfriend who gives unwanted pop-quizzes to his exhausted med student girlfriend helping, or being an a-hole? We also tackle the awkward truth about teaching hospitals – yes, that medical student might be practicing on YOUR sensitive bits (hopefully with proper patient consent)! Finally, we settle the age-old debate of who deserves the credit: the emergency medicine resident who completed training or the partner who paid his rent, fed his pets, and sacrificed their social life for years. Join us for this romp through the messy human side of medical training that your white coat ceremony definitely can’t prepare you for!
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
From Perfect Plans to Grease Fires: The Med School Spectrum
May 01, 2025
Behind the façade lies chaos, confidence, and occasional kitchen fires.
What do med and PA students really think about their lives? We check the vibes. Jeff Goddard (M3), Kim Fairhead (M1), Gabbi Bullard (PA1), and Annie Dotzler (PA1) for a game that checks med student experiences on their vibes. The group tackles the truth about reflex hammer skills, confessing to the internal chaos that underlies a fake-it-till-you-make-it confidence during physical exams. Annie and Gabby share their structured yet surprisingly “vibes-based” approach to studying before exams, complete with coffee-shop meetups and rapid-fire knowledge exchange. Meanwhile, Annie’s meal prep aspirations take a dramatic turn when studying fatigue leads to an actual kitchen fire. The conversation weaves through medical curriculum frustrations, the evolution of study techniques from pre-clinical to clinical years, and the underlying question of whether we’re just “hallucinating large language models” ourselves.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Medicine Can Cure TB—But Humanity Won’t
Apr 24, 2025
When a CURE exists but ACCESS doesn’t, who do we blame?
Tuberculosis is curable. We just don’t care enough to cure it. That’s the premise behind John Green’s book, Everything Is Tuberculosis. In this episode, M1s Zach Grissom, Kate Timboe, and Tyler Pollock, and Srishti Mathur consider that premise, and what it says about humanity’s stubborn failure to solve a solvable problem. They unpack how cultural narratives, like romanticizing TB, stigmatizing the poor, path dependency, and greed have fueled inequities that keep TB deadly across the globe. The group reflects on Henry Rider’s story, which serves as the emotional spine of the book, and how John Green’s storytelling approach hits harder than raw data ever could.
From an emphasis on short-term thinking to postcolonial infrastructure (built to extract, not connect), the book dissects the history and systems that allow TB to persist even when we can easily cure it. The crew also talks about what medical education could look like if it centered stories instead of slide decks—and why Green thinks Mario Kart might be the best metaphor for how humanity could achieve global health equity.
[URL template for episode https://media.blubrry.com/theshortcoat/podcast.uiowa.edu/com/osa/CHANGETHIS.mp3]
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
How Med Students Redefine Ability and Success
Apr 17, 2025
Real students, real barriers, and the daily fight to stay in the game.
Everyone knows med school is hard. For some, it’s even harder. Dave Etler hosts a raw conversation with med students M1 Emily Baniewicz, M3 Jeff Goddard, PA 1 Chloe Kepros, and M3 Madeline Ungs about the reality of navigating disability during medical training. With insights from Jenna Ladd, PhD, CCOM’s recently hired accessibility specialist, they dig into accommodations that range from extra time to simply having a chair. The group shares stories of advocating for themselves while trying to keep up in a system not designed with their bodies or brains in mind. They discuss how their chronic illnesses, anxiety, and invisible disabilities show up in pre-clinical courses and clinical clerkships, why getting help can feel like a confession, and why pushing for equity isn’t about advantage over others — it’s about access. Also, yes, someone did pass out during shadowing. And while some may say a disability means they don’t belong here, the fact is, medicine needs them.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
From Fire Hose to Final Decision–How Med Students Choose Careers
Apr 10, 2025
Picking a Career in Medicine is Insane.
All of med school leads up to one moment: Match Day. But how do get there?
Dave Etler sits down with graduating M4s Mallory Kallish (surgery), Matt Engelken (OB/gyn), Jacob Lamb (radiology), and Will Sai (famiy medicine) to unpack the uncertainty and pressure around choosing a medical specialty. They share how they landed their matches—not through sudden epiphanies, but through trial, error, and sometimes vibes. We hear about emotional rotations, mentors who came through clutch, and interview seasons fueled by spreadsheets or sheer gut instinct. And yes, we talk about the infamous stereotypes: are you “too nice” for surgery, or “too male” for OB?
Also in this episode: the hidden power of palliative care, how to survive pre-clinical burnout, why some specialties get unfairly labeled “dead ends,” and what it means to feel like you belong in a specialty—even if you don’t fit the mold.
[URL template for episode https://media.blubrry.com/theshortcoat/podcast.uiowa.edu/com/osa/CHANGETHIS.mp3]
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
She Got Into Med School… But Now She’s Not Sure
Apr 03, 2025
Turning down that med school acceptance might cost more than you think.
Listener “ARM” got into medical school—cue the confetti—but now that reality’s set in, she’s not feeling great about her only acceptance. The school is small, expensive, and far from home. Should she go anyway or risk reapplying in hopes of a better fit next year? MD/PhD students Michael Arrington, Shruthi Kondaboina, Jessica Smith, and M1 Maria Schapfel weigh the real costs of walking away from an acceptance, from the red flags admissions committees look for to the gamble of getting in again. They get honest about finances, family, and the very unsexy truth about how much the campus “vibe” actually matters. Plus, what to say if you do it anyway.
Bonus: the MD/PhD students dish about why they took that road, while Maria counters with why MD is better for her.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
If you’re asking, you might be the a**hole (Recess Rehash)
Mar 27, 2025
[Because of Spring Break, instead of a new episode you can enjoy this re-run! If NPR can do it, so can we. We’ll be back next week.]
Life’s grey areas, offered up for internet discussion
Sometimes, you need someone to tell you if you’ve crossed the line. That’s why Reddit’s Am I The A**hole subreddit exists. M2 Holly Hemann brought some med-school themed samples for MD/PhD students Miranda Schene, Faith Prochaska, and PA2 Julie Vuong to react to. How compatible is MMA fighting and med school? Is it okay to get a secret horse? And isn’t an Eagle Scout the same as a doctor when you get right down to it? Let’s talk about all that!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Prescribing Meet-ups Instead of Meds…it seems to work!
Mar 20, 2025
Can Art, Nature, and Community Replace Pills?
What if doctors prescribed a painting class instead of or alongside pills? Journalist Julia Hotz, author of The Connection Cure, joins M3 Jeff Goddard, and MD/PhD student Riley Behan-Bush to discuss social prescribing, a growing healthcare movement that treats patients with art, nature, movement, and community rather than just medication. We look at the barriers to making this idea work in the U.S., from insurance hurdles to physician overwork to healthcare’s obsession with quick fixes. But the UK’s social prescribing model reduced ER visits by up to 50%, and it acknowledges loneliness might be as dangerous as smoking 15 cigarettes a day. Can medical students lead the charge toward healthcare that actually reduces physicians’ moral injury?
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Medfluencers and Patient Education: Helpful or Risky?
Mar 13, 2025
How future doctors are navigating social media’s impact on public education.
How can a well-meaning medfluencer be sure they’re actually helping? M1 Zach Grissom, M2 Fallon Jung, M3 Jeff Goddard, and M4 Matt Engelken sit down with third-year DO student Nik Bletnitsky to discuss the role of social media in medical education. Current and Future doctors are increasingly using these platforms to share medical knowledge—but, even if you’re careful to offer the best information, what are the hidden dangers?
The conversation covers the sometimes blurry line between education, misinformation, and contradicting someone’s doctor’s advice. How disclaimers work (or don’t), and why the Dunning-Kruger effect can turn a curious patient into an overconfident self-diagnoser.
Should doctors be influencers? Can patients trust what they see online? And is it possible to make medical knowledge accessible without accidentally making things worse?
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Demand to Be Called ‘Doctor,’ or Let It Slide (AITA)?
Mar 06, 2025
Reddit’s “Am I the Asshole?” makes us question everything
Reddit’s “AITA?” brings out the best and worst in people—and this week, we’re analyzing some choice cases through the lens of med school. M1s Srishti Mathur, Sahana Sarin, Maria Schapfel, and Mahaasrei Ghosh debate whether people in these scenarios are truly in the wrong or just victims of someone having a very bad day.
We break down the pressure on pre-meds and med students to do research, the value of publications, and the “gunner” mentality. Is bench research a necessary evil, or are pre-meds wasting their time? When is it appropriate to insist on being called ‘Doctor?’ Is it okay to go nuclear to take someone down a notch when they need it? Is a degree in design and marketing as important as an MD? It’s a chaotic mix of ethics, egos, and existential crises—so strap in.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Slap Some Moldy Bread On It: Blechardy!
Feb 27, 2025
What do med students know that isn’t medicine?
Do med students know what ancient doctors used for pain relief, or the shape of wombat poop? Join us for Blechardy! the trivia game show that involves a certain amount of suffering! Contestants answer medical and pop culture questions—but with potentially disgusting jellybeans that make any actual knowledge meaningless.
This week’s medical students: M3 Jeff Goddard, and M1s Cara Arrasmith, Tyler Pollock, and Keely Carney, with quizmaster Audra King, battle through ancient medicine facts, Iowa trivia, and the weirdest animal knowledge. Who will emerge victorious, and who will regret every bite? We don’t even know, and we were there!
Along the way, we discuss podcast rivalries (should we start fake beef with Joe Rogan?) and the questionable benefits of coffee beans digested by animals. Come for the trivia, stay for the suffering.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
4 Writers Explain How Telling Stories Makes Better Doctors
Feb 20, 2025
Writing helps doctors understand their patients—and themselves—better.
There are many reasons healthcare professionals write: to process trauma, build empathy, or simply because stories demand to be told. This week we’ve got a thought-provoking conversation with Dr. Carol Scott-Conner, a surgeon, poet, and editor of The Examined Life Journal; Katie Runde, a novelist exploring themes of love and loss; Jeff Goddard, an M3 medical student and soon-to-be-published author; and Linda Peng, a speculative fiction writer and Bowman Prize-winning author. They discuss the challenges of writing about real patients while maintaining ethical boundaries, the impact of narrative medicine on medical education, and why residency often leaves little time for self-reflection even though that’s where it can be most helpful. Plus, they break down the blurred line between fiction and lived experience in writing and whether good storytelling requires personal experience. No matter why doctors, patients, and medical students write, it’s a powerful tool that can sooth some of healthcare’s most difficult problems where the participants’ humanity and the system come together.
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
First Semester Med School: What Worked, What Failed, and How We Fixed It.
Feb 13, 2025
Anki? Lecture notes? Study groups? Med students spill the truth about what actually works.
First semester of med school is like eating a never-ending stack of pancakes—it’s fast, overwhelming, and it doesn’t care if you’re full. Listener G asked us for some tips, and in this episode, M1s Zach Grissom, Megan Perry, Jay Miller, and Srishti Mathur take us through the rough transition from undergrad to medical school and what they wish they knew before starting. From study methods that failed (Anki obsession, passive learning) to strategies that actually worked (active recall, selective focus, study groups), they share what helped them survive.
Burnout hits hard, and everyone here felt it–the mental exhaustion, learning to take breaks, and the power of peer support. Plus, the surprising truth about exams—sometimes failing is the best teacher. they also tackle balancing med school with real life: keeping hobbies, staying social, and even reading trashy novels.
Finally, an improv game throws the med students into hilarious situations. Listen for our unfiltered med school survival tips, study hacks, and some much-needed laughs!
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Into the Deep End: Surviving Our First Clinical Rotations (Tips and Tricks!)
Feb 06, 2025
What happens when medical students trade books for the chaos of real patient care
They spent months and months learning medicine from books. Then suddenly, they were thrown into hospitals with real patients, real pressure, and only the barest clue what they were doing. In this episode, Dave sits down with M4s Jacob Hanson and Happy Kumar, and M3s Zay Egren and Tony El-Sokkari to relive their first clerkship experiences—the awkward mistakes, every unexpected challenge, and the moments that made them feel like they actually belonged in medicine. From simulated patients yelling at them, to missing the first day of a rotation, to being told never to ask an attending questions, the crew shares the ups and downs of transitioning into the hospital world. They also break down how to ask for feedback the right way, what attendings actually expect from students, and why residency interviews feel like a mix of speed dating and job interviews. Plus, a wild case of “cheese hands” (Xanthelasma, if you’re fancy) makes them all question their dietary choices.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
When Your Partner is in Med School… What You Need to Know
Jan 30, 2025
Supporting a Med Student is Tough
In this episode, host Dave Etler has been (kidnapped? It’s unclear) and replaced by his grumpy brother Dominic Etler, MD, Harvard, Class of ’96. Confused M1s Megan Perry, Jay Miller, Cara Arrasmith, and M4 Matt Engelken nevertheless buckle down to address listener Giovanni’s question about supporting his fiance during her trip through med school. The group explores the challenges of medical school, including managing relationships, dealing with harsh weather, and maintaining mental health. They provide insights into staying sane during tough rotations, the importance of maintaining hobbies, and ways loved ones can offer support. The episode also covers the balance between professional and personal life, emphasizing the need for mutual support in relationships. Of course, Dr. Etler does not represent the views of the Carver College of Medicine. In fact, he’s kind of a jerk (and, our lawyers want you to know, a satirical character).
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
The Secret to Getting Better Health Care: Be Different
Jan 23, 2025
Do Patients Have to Perform to Be Taken Seriously in Medicine?
How does “respectability politics” play out in healthcare, and specifically, pain management? PA1 Chloe Kepros, M1 Zach Grissom, M1 Srishti Mathur and M3 Jeff Goddard unpack how patients often adjust their behavior and appearance to gain credibility in medical spaces. From the history of pain measurement to the biases in how pain is treated today, the cultural and social dynamics shaping the decisions healthcare providers make about their patients’ pain is more than an academic exercise. When patients feel they must dress up for doctor visits, use advanced terminology, or even give their pain scale number a little boost, just to be taken seriously, is that just society in action? Or is it a barrier to care? What does it mean to be truly seen in medical spaces? Plus, pre-med listener Violet asks about balancing vulnerability and professionalism during med school interviews.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Placentas, Prostates, and Purple Goggles
Jan 16, 2025
Medical students share insights on hitting milestones and navigating transitions
The rollercoaster of medical school transitions is hitting some peaks, from the first nerve-wracking days of clerkships to the unglamorous realities of OB-GYN rotations. M3 Elvire Nguepnang, M2 Gizzy Lundquist, M3 Jeff Goddard, and M1 Katherine Yu open up about the leap from textbooks to patient care, beginning advanced clerkships, and just staying on the path—and why it’s okay to feel a little lost. Along the way, they share their experiences with delivering placentas, unpack how seemingly minor lessons from preclinical years suddenly become crucial in the real world, and the new sensory ability they’d choose if they could.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Shocking betrayals, sure fire blindness, niche community drama (Recess Rehash)
Jan 09, 2025
[We’re still on break, but we’ll be back soon! In the meantime, have a listen to this ep, in case you missed it]
It’s a freestyle episode, come have some fun!
Sometimes it’s nice to just sit down and have a rambling conversation. That’s this episode, with MD/PhD students Madi Wahlen and Sahaana Arumugam and M3s Jacob Hansen and Jacob Lam.
We discuss the non-weighty topics of why people don’t know they shouldn’t stare at a ball of fusion in the sky, niche online community drama, a Texas transplant surgeon accused of manipulating transplant lists, everyday things that might not be things someday, why Dave doesn’t yet want an electric vehicle, the co-hosts plans for their futures beyond seeing patients, and so much more that is barely relevant to medical school.
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
New MD and PA Students: Why Medicine? (Recess Rehash)
Jan 02, 2025
[It’s winter break here at CCOM, so the podcast is on break, too! Enjoy this rerun!]
Med Students discuss what led them to med school
Dave welcomes newly minted medical and PA students at the Carver College of Medicine to share their first-week experiences and the challenges of adapting to medical school. M1s Sydney Skuodas, Michael Arrington, Alex Murra, Luke Geis, and PA1 Harrison Parker discuss what they’ve learned about time management, personal growth during “gap years,” overcoming imposter syndrome, and balancing personal life with rigorous medical training. The co-hosts also discuss the personal motivations behind their decisions to pursue medicine, revealing stories of past careers, family influences, and the aspiration to impact lives directly. Don’t worry about the shock device we’re using, I’m sure they’re fine, plus it was Luke’s idea.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Stay or Run, Back from the Brink, Allopath v. Osteopath: Answering Listener Questions!
Dec 26, 2024
5 listener questions ANSWERED!
Dave Etler is joined by co-hosts MD/PhD student Riley Behan-Bush, and M1s Zach Elias and Demir Tuken, and M3 Hend Al-Kaylani to tackle a backlog of listener questions. Listener DeeDee shares her struggles with med school, parental expectations, and anxiety and depression–should she be in medical school at all? Cameron worries about overcoming a rocky academic start, Marvin’s trying to understand the value of an undergrad minor degree, Avery wants our take on how well CCOM integrates LGBTQ+ health education into the curriculum, and the cohosts weigh in on the differences between allopathic and osteopathic schools for Zion. We’re bringing our personal experiences, practical advice, and our flip phones to the table!
More about our guest:
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Don’t Drop Your Hobbies, Doc!
Dec 19, 2024
You need things to keep you grounded, so keep those hobbies going, or find some.
We’ve said it before, we’ll say it again: studying medicine will consume everything if you let it…so don’t let it. Your hobbies–whether you pursue them steadily or they shift over time–help you achieve your goals in medicine, too. M3 Jeff Goddard, MD/PhD student Miranda Schene, and M2s Kaitlin Grimes and Sri Nandakumar talk about their hobbies and what they get out of them. Whether it’s reaching that flow state, increasing their engagement in their work, reducing the chances of burnout, or adding to their understanding of the world they live in, pastimes and avocations keep docs grounded and creative.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Dark Humor in Medicine, Family Expectations, and The Inviolable “Zone”
Dec 12, 2024
[Content warning: this episode contains frank discussions of X, Y and Z that many listeners will find disturbing.]
Once again, we decide who’s the asshole.
Dave is joined MD/PhD students Riley Behan-Bush and Miranda Schene, M3 Jeff Goddard, PA2 Julie Vuong, and M2 Holly Hemann for yet another AITA episode on humor in medicine, debating the appropriateness of jokes at others’ expense and the limits of comedy among emotionally volatile family members. The group also considers the complexities of family expectations, particularly in cultural contexts where children are perceived to owe careers to their parents’ investments. Listener feedback is highlighted, addressing concerns about biased opinions on PA and NP independence discussed in a previous episode. They share candid insights on dealing with criticism and the professional way to handle conflicts, and dissect themes of academic preparation, sibling rivalry, and the stress of high-stakes professional examinations.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Trends in Medicine and Med Ed ft. Medscape’s Jon McKenna
Dec 05, 2024
We explore the trends in AI, residency, med school, and more
MD/PhD student Riley Behan-Bush, M4 Katie Higham-Kessler, and M3s Olivia Jenks and Elvira Nguepnang discuss 2024’s trends and topics in healthcare and medical education with Medscape’s Senior Editor of Reports Jon McKenna. The episode kicks off with exploring how AI is being adopted in healthcare, particularly in note-taking and administrative tasks, rather than diagnostic applications. The panel examines Medscape’s recent report on the medical school experience, highlighting issues like imposter syndrome, wellness, and equity in medical education. Jon provides insights from his surveys, noting encouraging trends in students’ sleep and exercise habits. The discussion also covers the challenges residents face, including work-life balance and the impact of systemic changes on residency experiences. The episode wraps up with an examination of the gender pay gap in medicine and what (if anything) can be done about it.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
It’s Thanksgiving. Let’s “Help” People.
Nov 28, 2024
Reddit Health Questions, Answered
It’s the Thanksgiving holiday in the United States, so M4 Katie Higham-Kessler, PA2 Julie Vuong, and MD/PhD students Miranda Schene and Riley Behan-Bush give thanks to their future patients’ for their surprising questions (as suggested by Reddit’s r/AskDoctors and similar subs). Should one be concerned about foamy pee? How can one get white again? What can one do about a head dent? The crew also express thanks by giving and receiving compliments, something Dave thnks doesn’t happen enough (although that’s probably just him). Happy Thanksgiving!
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Gross Anatomy: More Than Meets the Eye for Students
Nov 21, 2024
[Content warning: this episode contains frank discussions of the study of anatomy that some listeners will find disturbing.]
The First Patient Students Learn From
M1 students Emily Baniewicz, Zach Grissom, Srishti Mathur, and Sydney Skuodas share their experiences and insights on the gross anatomy lab experience–what many call “the first patient.” Special guest Dr. Darren Hoffmann, Associate Professor of Anatomy and Cell Biology joins us to discuss the significance of donated bodies for medical education, and the people and their families, who make the study of anatomy possible with their donations. The group explores the emotional and physical challenges of anatomy lab, the limitations of the language used to teach anatomy, teamwork dynamics, and the roles the donors take on through their gifts. We take a look at the potential future of anatomy education with virtual and augmented reality technologies, including their benefits and, importantly, their limitations. It’s an inside look at a part of medical school that most know about, but that necessarily remains respectfully hidden from view.
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Worms, Fears, and Beethoven’s Ears (Recess Rehash)
Nov 14, 2024
[This episode is sponsored by Beginly Health. Whether you’re actively searching or casually exploring job opportunities, the Beginly platform matches you with complete anonymity until you’re ready for the next step.]
Our monthly roundup of news from the margins of medicine!
M1s Fallon Jung and Taryn O’Brien, M2 Jeff Goddard, and MD/PhD studnet Riley Behan Bush are on hand for our monthly news roundup. Including news that presidential candidate and anti-vaxxer Robert F. Kennedy’s brain was ‘eaten’ by a worm and his love of tuna sandwiches. Virtually all healthcare providers globally suffer from a clinical psychiatric disorder. Beethoven really liked lead-sweetened wine, which is probably why he was so sick and deaf. And a Tesla Cybertruck owner smashed his own finger with his vehicle’s frunk to prove that his vehicle’s frunk couldn’t smash his own finger. And can we guess what the shitty life pro tip from Reddit is? Plus lots more observations and revelations from the margins of medicine!
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
MD and PA Students Aren’t Buying The Scope Creep Fight
Nov 07, 2024
Why are the AMA and the AAPA Fighting?
PA2 Olivia Quinby, PA2 Raginya Handoo, PA2 Julie Vuong, and M4 Katie Higham-Kessler dig into the intense debate between the American Medical Association (“Scope creep will destroy everything!”) and the American Association of Physician Assistants (“WTF we’re just trying to fill the gaps, bro!”) regarding ‘scope creep.’ They discuss arguments from both sides about non-physician practice rights and the impacts on healthcare quality and access. And then there’s this question: should this rivalry break out into the patients’ view, what will it mean for their trust in a system many already find untrustworthy?
Meanwhile, listener Olivia, a hopeful PA student herself and fearing that she missed the mark this year, seeks advice on strengthening her application while she waits to hear back from her schools. The hosts provide personal insights and practical tips on standing out in PA school applications, focusing on experiences, recommendation letters, and writing skills. We’ve all been there, Olivia–hang tight!
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Med-Techbros, Shortage Woes, and Ig Nobel Probes (Recess Rehash)
Oct 31, 2024
[We tried to put together a Halloween episode, but everyone was doing med school stuff. Rude. So enjoy this re-run!]
As another physician shortage looms, M2s Jeff and Olivia and M1 Fallon look at the reasons–the market forces, political issues, and the missing incentives. There is some good news–a shortage of physicians means that residents get a ton of solicitations for post-training jobs.
Elon Musk’s Neuralink might be bad for monkeys, but the FDA has cleared the way for human trials to begin. What place do techbros–who have a rep for “moving fast and breaking things”– have in medicine where lives are at stake?
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
AITA: We’re All Just Janky ChatGPTs
Oct 24, 2024
Humans just aren’t great at thinking
Dave is joined by MD/PhD student Miranda Schene, M1 Chase Larsson, M2 Radha Velamuri, M2 Fallon Jung, and M2 Holly Hemann for our monthly dip into relatable Reddit’s ‘Am I the Asshole’ stories: Is it okay for my husband to combine his MD career with a new passion for working at McDonalds? Is it okay to clarify to everyone I meet that my boyfriend is in fact not a doctor of essential oil therapy? Why do all my former pre-med friends hate me very much, it’s a total mystery, I’m just dropping my doctor truth bombs? How should I not engage with my childhood friend about vaccine fears? Also, the co-host’s stories of hospital code blues, Fallon overcomes her elevator anxiety, and Dave’s theory that humans are just garbage large language models floating on a lizard brain. Finally: please make a plan to VOTE in this year’s elections! Find out how to vote and what’s at stake for your area at vote.org.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Slapping together a Confident Med School Application List
Oct 17, 2024
Self-reflection is key to choosing what med schools to apply to
Listener Virginia dropped us a line to ask us how she might go about selecting from the 195 med schools in the US to build her list of schools to send her application to. M1s Chase Larsson, Sarah Lowenberg, Luke Geis, and M4 Katie Higham-Kessler look back on how they made their decisions, taking into account family proximity, costs, personal interests, geography, and vibes! Also, an unsurprising JAMA Surgery review of the risks associated with professional slap fighting (slow-mo video referenced in the discussion is at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xefAFB1NRNU&t=1268s). And the group practices a necessary medical school skill: confidence in the face of uncertainty (AKA speaking on things about which they know nothing).
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Does the Medical Profession Glorify Misery? (Recess Rehash)
Oct 10, 2024
[With Dave taking a vacation, here is your opportunity to enjoy this rerun. We’ll be back with a new episode next week!]
Do everything you can to avoid the misery trap
On this episode we welcome guest Dr. Joshua Trebach, an emergency medicine physician here at Iowa. This past spring he posted on X that medicine must “lose the mentality of thinking its okay to be miserable for years (or decades) to justify it being ‘finally worth it’ in the end.”
We couldn’t agree more–live now, not later! Which is why PA2 Julie Vuong, M2 Fallon Jung, and MD/PhD student Madi Wahlen are each finding ways to reject that mentality. Indeed, medical education is changing, perhaps slowly, to reinforce the idea that just because medicine can be a difficult life doesn’t mean that you should obsessively look forward to the day it gets better. That day is a long way away, so do what you can (what you must) to be who you want to be even as you’re drinking from the firehose.
Also, we answer one of listener Mohamed’s questions on how he can jump right into his first year this fall with his eyes on patient advocacy.
my two cents: lose the mentality of thinking its okay to be miserable for years (or decades) to justify it being "finally worth it" in the end i know too many people that graduated from med school only to be like "wait…this sucks" find ways to have fulfillment each day https://t.co/9OPZ2VsLyd
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Is Med School Impossible with a Serious Mental Illness?
Oct 10, 2024
[Content warning: this episode contains frank discussions of mental health and mentions suicide.]
Getting your support systems in order is key to success in med school with a mental health diagnosis
In this episode listener Haley, who is considering medical school while managing a bipolar diagnosis has been told by her psychiatrist that med school probably isn’t for her. PA2 Julie Vuong, M3 Shana Liu, M1 Riley Dean, and MD/PhD student Sebastian Gomez, join host Dave Etler share their personal experiences with mental health challenges, including anxiety, PTSD, and ADHD. The crew candidly discusses the importance of seeking support, the stigma around mental health, and the accommodations available in medical school. Advice is offered on forming a strong support network, being open about personal struggles, and leveraging mental health diagnoses as a unique strength in the medical field. The episode concludes with insights into the support systems to look for in a school, the balance of life and medical education, and the significance of mental health awareness.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Compared to MDs, the PA profession offers flexible employment and a (relatively) relaxed path to a healthcare career.
Dave teams up with PA2s Noah Vasquez, Olivia Quinby, and Anna Cole, and PA1 Chloe Kepros to celebrate PA Week 2024! The crew looks at the unique challenges and experiences of being a physician assistant student, like why they chose the profession, the contrasts between themselves and their MD-student colleagues, the value of diverse educational backgrounds, the clinical experiences they’ve gathered along the way, the lessons they’re learning watching people in other healthcare roles, and how their different pre-PA work experiences shape their perspectives and skills. Plus, without the additional hoops physicians must jump through (eg., their match process, residency education, and state licensing), PAs enjoy a flexibility of employment that’s unmatched in the MD world.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Rachel Takes Over to Ask the Big Questions
Sep 26, 2024
She’s arguably the better host
Dave is too tired to helm the show, so he lured Admissions Coordinator Rachel Shulista to be on the show, then hands over the hosting duties to her while he instead takes a co-host’s chair! Joined by M3 Jeff Goddard, and M2s Taryn O’Brien and Fallon Jung, the group discusses the questions that Fallon apparently has had tucked away in her drafts folder and never sent in back when she was a listener. The episode also dives into serious discussions, such as the approach to end-of-life care, the importance of mental health among medical professionals, and personal reflections on life’s purpose. Midway, a spontaneous game of pondering deep questions amidst in-depth conversations about the medical profession, aging, and life choices. And stay to the end to see Dave’s movie star doppelganger, according to Rachel.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Balancing Medical School Ambitions and Personal Well-being
Dave is joined by M2 Taryn O’Brien, M1 Sarah Sarah Lowenberg, Luke Geis, and Radha Velamuri dive into some listener questions, including from Charlotte, a senior in college recently accepted into medical school who is doing a lot and wants to do more. Meanwhile, Moesha wrote in to ask how pre-meds can stop feeling like they’re not doing enough! And a 70-year-old man graduates from medical school proving that too much is never enough. What’s the balance between gaining more experience and taking time to relax? How might Charlotte balance personal well-being and enjoying one’s remaining college days? The cohosts share their own challenges, including managing self-doubt and the rigorous demands of medical school. We also play a fun game in which Dave proposes that Radha be the dean of a medical school for cave people, and that the others practice communicating biomedical terms to her new clan.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
MCAT Score Reveals, MMA or Family, and Never-ending Sacrifices
Sep 19, 2024
Are You The Asshole?
Dave is joined by co-hosts M1 Alec Marticoff, M1 Zach Grissom, PA1 Chloe Kepros, and M2 Holly Hemann. Together, they adjudicate several of reddit’s Am I The Asshole submissions. Why is discussing MCAT scores such treacherous ground? Is it an overreaction to get a second opinion? Are UFC/MMA fights sacrosanct? They also explore what it’s like to be involved in relationships with medical students (it ain’t easy), and the sacrifices each partner should be prepared to make. These stories of struggle and strife offer an inside look into what it’s like to be, date, and prepare for a life with a medical student. Share today’s episode with your partner!
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
The Disease Medicine Suffers From That’s Causing Immense Suffering
Sep 12, 2024
Groupthink Kills
Do any of these ideas sound familiar?
Whether born by C-section or vaginally, outcomes are the same for babies.
Opioids aren’t addictive.
Appendicitis must be treated by appendectomy.
Children shouldn’t have peanuts until they’re at least 3 years old.
Antibiotics have no downside.
Hormone replacement therapy causes breast cancer.
These recommendations and many more were based largely upon unexamined ideas and bad science. And in recent years through well-designed science we’ve been learning that they made patients sicker.
Dr. Marty Makary is a public health researcher and bestselling author whose new book, Blind Spots: When Medicine Gets it Wrong and What It Means for Our Health, is an incredibly accessible exploration of the pitfalls of medical groupthink and the importance of questioning deeply held assumptions in medicine. It explores how medical training often suppresses big-picture thinking and critical questioning. Co-hosts M2 Alex Nigg, PA2 Julie Vuong, and M3 Jeff Goddard, and M2 Fallon Jung talk with Dr Makary about the disconnect between what’s practiced in medicine and science, the dangers of dismissing new ideas due to fear of association with discredited concepts, and the significance of maintaining scientific objectivity. The episode combines personal anecdotes, practical advice for navigating medical school, and a thought-provoking discussion on improving transparency and trust in healthcare. Join us for an engaging exploration of the critical issues in modern medicine and the role of young doctors in driving change.
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
New MD and PA Students: Why Medicine?
Aug 29, 2024
Med Students discuss what led them to med school
Dave welcomes newly minted medical and PA students at the Carver College of Medicine to share their first-week experiences and the challenges of adapting to medical school. M1s Sydney Skuodas, Michael Arrington, Alex Murra, Luke Geis, and PA1 Harrison Parker discuss what they’ve learned about time management, personal growth during “gap years,” overcoming imposter syndrome, and balancing personal life with rigorous medical training. The co-hosts also discuss the personal motivations behind their decisions to pursue medicine, revealing stories of past careers, family influences, and the aspiration to impact lives directly. Don’t worry about the shock device we’re using, I’m sure they’re fine, plus it was Luke’s idea.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
New Students Arrive, How to Live in the Present, and Staying Sane While Applying
Aug 22, 2024
Welcome New MD/PA students!
M2s Leticia Franciso and Gizzy Keeler, who served as orientation leaders for this year’s new crop of medical and PA students, were in a good position to talk about the experience of transitioning from Orientation Week to the first year of medical school, highlighting the changes in attitudes and relationships they saw. They, along with PA2 Julie Vuong and M4 Katie Higham-Kessler compare the pre-med and medical school environments and offer advice to incoming students. And our admissions expert Rachel Schulista returns to help answer questions from listener JustAGirl who’s trying to stay sane during the application process while the other applicants around her are not being especially helpful, and listener Chris’s worry that he’s looking to the future at the expense of the present. Plus, the importance of having diverse experiences, the real value of personal statements in applications, and why the pursuit of genuine personal interests will help you get into med school and beyond. Join us!
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Blechardy and Beans
Aug 15, 2024
Med School is Non-Trivial, but…
Against the backdrop of a new class of MD and PA students arriving at the University of Iowa Carver College of Medicine, Dave and the co-hosts–including M3 Hend Al-Kaylani, PA2 Julie Vuong, M2 Gizzy Keeler, and M3 Trent Gilbert–share their humorous and sometimes ‘smelly’ experiences from their first semester, play a trivia game Dave made up called ‘Blechardy with Alex Trebot 2.0,’ and eat jelly beans. This is high-yield stuff, folks.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Public Studying, Ultrasound Oopsie, and Stealing Valor from Nurses: AITA
Aug 08, 2024
It’s another trip through Reddit, arbiter of A-holishness
What lessons does medical school teach? Aside from the foundations of cellular life, mechanisms of health and disease, and clinical and professional skills? As M2 Holly Hemann, MD/PhD student Miranda Schene, PA Professor Jeremy Nelson, and PA1 Julie Vuong discover, it can teach you where it’s not appropriate to study external reproductive anatomy, that some people consider wearing scrubs an example of stolen valor, and that it’s sometimes best for a student to keep his mouth shut. It’s okay, we’re here to learn from each other!
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
What Does “Perfect” Mean in Med School?
Aug 01, 2024
Why perfect isn’t always the goal
Listener Noah wrote to us from the UK asking–among other things–how he could flourish when he starts medical school. One statement caught our eye, however: that he was determined to do everything right the first time. M4s Matt Engelken, Chirayu Shukla, Happy Kumar, and Jacob Lam discuss their perspective on how that’s not necessarily the right goal to aim for.
Then listener Tiffany, a med student herself, asked the boys how they prepared for the Step 1 licensing exam. That word “licensing,” it turns out, is important–as a pass/fail exam, this isn’t like most exams, where the goal is to get as close to perfection as is possible. Instead, the idea is to demonstrate your general knowledge and pass without losing your mind.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
This week, M3 Jeff Goddard, M2 Taryn O’Brien, and MD/PhD student Riley Behan Bush are on hand to discuss July’s news. First, it’s hard to ignore Johns Hopkins joining the tuition free bandwagon thanks to Michael Bloomberg…but this gift goes further…maybe it could actually have a desired effect! Meanwhile, the New York Times offered an expose on a practice that might prey on the emotions of anxious new parents–cord blood stem cell storage. And the public health world marks the passing of the man who exposed the infamous Tuskegee Study…a scandal that’s still reverberating today.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
AITA? Probably!
Jul 18, 2024
But sometimes everyone’s a jerk.
Self-evaluation is important, especially in medicine, but sometimes you just gotta ask–was I a jerk? Dave Etler, MD/PhD student Miranda Schene, M4 Happy Kumar, and M2 Holly Hemann use Reddit’s ‘Am I the Asshole?’ submissions to exploring feelings of impostor syndrome, the ethics of classroom behavior, fair recognition of achievements, and cases of medical malpractice. Along the way, they provide practical advice for medical school admissions, dissect the delicate balance of maintaining professionalism in the medical field, and what to think when even mom craps on your dreams. Shut up, mom!
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
How Med Students Do Long Distance Relationships
Jul 11, 2024
It’s all about the plan!
Listener Neurotic Premed dropped us a message at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus to ask what medical students in long-distance relationships, both platonic and romantic, do to keep them alive and healthy. MD/PhD student Madi Wahlen, M2 Fallon Jung, M3 Jeff Goddard, an PA2 Julie Vuong have a lot of experience in that area. From long-distance parenting to making sure friends still feel connected, it takes planning and intentionality along with a slight tweak to what it means to be “together.” They share how they do it successfully!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Small Towns, Big Impact: Rural Medicine ft. Peter Kaboli, MD (Recess Rehash)
Jul 04, 2024
[We’re still in the midst a summer break, so here’s a rerun in case you missed it.]
The unique experiences and challenges of practicing medicine where everyone knows your name
M1 Fallon Jung, PA1 Olivia Quinby, MD/PhD student Faith Prochaska, M2 Jeff Goddard, and special guest Dr. Peter Kaboli dive deep into the heart of rural medicine. We kick off with a candid discussion about growing up in small towns and how these experiences shape our understanding of community and healthcare.
Dr. Kaboli, an expert in rural health with the Veterans’ Administration, shares his insights into the nuances of rural medicine. We explore the multifaceted challenges and rewards of practicing medicine in rural settings, from the importance of forming deep connections with patients to navigating the scarcity of healthcare resources.
Telemedicine, workforce issues, geographic barriers, and the digital divide are central to the art of medicine in small towns and on county roads, sometimes requiring innovative approaches to healthcare delivery.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
The Sheriff is Watching, Ft. Bryan Carmody, MD (Recess Rehash)
Jun 27, 2024
The Sheriff of Sodium investigates the current state and future of medical training
[We’re taking a vacation for a couple weeks, so while we rest and recharge enjoy this rerun!]
If you’ve wondered how well the system that trains future doctors works, or about what factors really determine which medical students get into the most competitive residency programs, this episode is for you.
M1 Fallon Jung, M2 Jeff Goddard, and M4 AJ Chowdhury get deep into these issues with a very special guest – Dr. Brian Carmody, known on his blog and YouTube channel as “The Sheriff of Sodium.”
Dr. Carmody, a pediatric nephrologist by training, closely analyzes and shares data-driven perspectives on medical education, pulling on threads to understand whether the current medical training system is truly functional, fair, and efficient, examining factors like student debt burdens, physician shortages projections, and the utility of metrics like Step 1 and Step 2 scores.
Like any good sheriff, Dr. Carmody is skeptical, especially about ideas like future physician shortages, and how schools report residency match outcomes.
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Programs that will pay for medical school (and one thing not to do)
Jun 20, 2024
[This episode has visual content you might find more enjoyable using YouTube Music, where you can listen with your phone in your pocket as usual, but then watch for the more visual content]
Paying for Medical School is Scary…but it’s totally doable!
Listener Eden is looking ahead to how she’ll finance medical school as someone who is in the disadvantaged category of applicants. One option she asked us to talk about is the Health Professions Scholarship Program offered by the US military, and she wanted to hear from someone who is in that program. M4 Wilson Fitzgerald gave us the details, some ideas about what it’s like to be a physician in the military, the sacrifices he’s decided to make to take advantage of the program, and how it’s working out for him so far. PA faculty member Jeremy Nelson, M2 Fallon Jung, and M3 Happy Kumar helped discuss why it might not be a great idea to wait to start medical school so that you have time to save up tuition. And Dave pulls out a bunch of reels he’s been saving in his drafts because he doesn’t think they’re any good. Spoiler alert: they should have stayed in his drafts–but you can see them on our Instagram anyway!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
If you’re asking, you might be the a**hole
Jun 13, 2024
Life’s grey areas, offered up for internet discussion
Sometimes, you need someone to tell you if you’ve crossed the line. That’s why Reddit’s Am I The A**hole subreddit exists. M2 Holly Hemann brought some med-school themed samples for MD/PhD students Miranda Schene, Faith Prochaska, and PA2 Julie Vuong to react to. How compatible is MMA fighting and med school? Is it okay to get a secret horse? And isn’t an Eagle Scout the same as a doctor when you get right down to it? Let’s talk about all that!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
New Women’s Health Restrictions?
Jun 06, 2024
Our new monthly legislation and policy roundup
Project 2025 is the name of a project that hopes to serve as a blueprint for a future conservative administration that would promote natural family planning methods and reduce insurance coverage for certain contraceptives. M1s* Fallon Jung, Taryn O’Brien, and Gizzy Keeler (who are–boop boop boop!–leveling up to M2s), with help from Curriculum Manager Billie Ruden, discuss what that might mean for training MDs, where they’ll be willing to go, and why it’s not just OB/Gyn aspirants paying attention. Meanwhile, congress will consider a bill to make permanent several telehealth changes that were enacted to ease the healthcare crisis during the COVID crisis. KFF.org releases a helpful primer about the US healthcare system everyone should know about, and a scandal at the NIH further jeopardizes trust in science.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Does the Medical Profession Glorify Misery?
May 30, 2024
[This episode is sponsored by Beginly Health. The Beginly platform matches physicians and APPs with employers with complete anonymity until you’re ready for the next step. Dave and Beginly founder Kristi Olsen chat about what residents should be asking employers about when planning for their post-residency gigs and beyond.]
Do everything you can to avoid the misery trap
On this episode we welcome guest Dr. Joshua Trebach, an emergency medicine physician here at Iowa. This past spring he posted on X that medicine must “lose the mentality of thinking its okay to be miserable for years (or decades) to justify it being ‘finally worth it’ in the end.”
We couldn’t agree more–live now, not later! Which is why PA2 Julie Vuong, M2 Fallon Jung, and MD/PhD student Madi Wahlen are each finding ways to reject that mentality. Indeed, medical education is changing, perhaps slowly, to reinforce the idea that just because medicine can be a difficult life doesn’t mean that you should obsessively look forward to the day it gets better. That day is a long way away, so do what you can (what you must) to be who you want to be even as you’re drinking from the firehose.
Also, we answer one of listener Mohamed’s questions on how he can jump right into his first year this fall with his eyes on patient advocacy.
my two cents: lose the mentality of thinking its okay to be miserable for years (or decades) to justify it being "finally worth it" in the end i know too many people that graduated from med school only to be like "wait…this sucks" find ways to have fulfillment each day https://t.co/9OPZ2VsLyd
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Against the Odds: First-Generation in Medicine
May 23, 2024
It’s hard to become a doctor when you’ve never met one.
It’s sometimes easy to forget from the ivory tower that relatively few American’s have, or take, the opportunity to advance beyond high school. This, of course, means that their children are also less likely to do so. Those kids that do decide to make that leap are at a distinct disadvantage to their peers whose parents did go to college. And those who advance further to attend medical school are even more rare, and are still disadvantaged compared to their peers. We call those students “first-generation in medicine,” and they’re an important group. They represent an opportunity to have a medical workforce that can serve their patients better because they understand a wider range of patient experiences and determinants of health at a gut level.
PA1 Julie Vuong, M1 Amanda Litka, MD/PhD student Faith Prochaska are all first-generation students in college or medicine, and M1 Holly Hemann is engaged in outreach activities focused on first-generation students. They sat down to talk with Dave about their battles to overcome the barriers to enter a medical career, what it means for their future practice of medicine, and how learning about medicine is often a gut-wrenching experience that highlights the struggles their families back home have in maintaining their own health.
Meanwhile, some medical schools have gone tuition free, which should have been good news…but so far it has actually *decreased* the number of low-income students that matriculate at those schools, as well as lowering the number of students from those schools who enter primary care.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Worms, Fears, and Beethoven’s Ears
May 16, 2024
[This episode is sponsored by Beginly Health. Whether you’re actively searching or casually exploring job opportunities, the Beginly platform matches you with complete anonymity until you’re ready for the next step.]
Our monthly roundup of news from the margins of medicine!
M1s Fallon Jung and Taryn O’Brien, M2 Jeff Goddard, and MD/PhD studnet Riley Behan Bush are on hand for our monthly news roundup. Including news that presidential candidate and anti-vaxxer Robert F. Kennedy’s brain was ‘eaten’ by a worm and his love of tuna sandwiches. Virtually all healthcare providers globally suffer from a clinical psychiatric disorder. Beethoven really liked lead-sweetened wine, which is probably why he was so sick and deaf. And a Tesla Cybertruck owner smashed his own finger with his vehicle’s frunk to prove that his vehicle’s frunk couldn’t smash his own finger. And can we guess what the shitty life pro tip from Reddit is? Plus lots more observations and revelations from the margins of medicine!
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Med School is SIMPLE?! (Recess Rehash)
May 09, 2024
“I honestly have had the most relaxing time I’ve had in forever, and for anybody who’s like, that’s ridiculous, just wait.”
[Dave’s co-hosts were all doing medical student things on our usual recording day, so enjoy this previously released episode!]
The most charitable definition of a hot take is a position taken in order to generate conversation. The more usual definition is a position taken to create controversy (and clicks). Dave asked his co-hosts to come with some hot takes, and it’s up to you to decide which definition they’re using, but PA1 Conner Lieser and M1s Radha Velamuri, Amanda Litka, and Sri Nandakumar offer their hot takes on how hard med school is, the admissions process, shadowing, advice from more advanced students, and more.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
3 ways medicine changed this week
May 02, 2024
From classroom to exam room, what you need to know
[This episode is sponsored by Beginly Health. Whether you’re actively searching or casually exploring job opportunities, the Beginly platform matches you with complete anonymity until you’re ready for the next step.]
M1s Fallon Jung and Alex Nigg, M2 Jeff Goddard, and MD/PhD student Riley Behan Bush hear listener Megan’s request for more news on critical healthcare changes from our overlords in the courts and the government. Riley shares insights from her lab work as she works toward finishing her PhD. This episode unpacks the FTC’s move to ban non-compete clauses for doctors, a pivotal Supreme Court case on Idaho’s abortion policies, and new consent requirements for performing invasive procedures you didn’t know were being done on anesthetized people.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Disability in Medicine: The Every Day Struggle
Apr 25, 2024
Medicine isn’t always kind to its disabled practitioners, but let’s change that.
In 2023, a group of Iowa med students founded our chapter of the Medical Students With Disabilities and Chronic Illness, a group “working to remove barriers for students and professionals with disabilities, increasing representation of diverse perspectives in medicine.” M1 Holly Hemann, MD/PhD student Faith Prochaska and PA1s Olivia Quinby and Julie Vuong discuss their lived experiences as students navigating disability and chronic illness. They illuminate the essential support systems, the process of securing necessary accommodations, and the powerful sense of community among students facing similar challenges. And they look critically at how these personal experiences enrich the medical profession and underscore the urgent need for inclusivity in medical training. Their personal stories of coping with PTSD, ADHD, daily vestibular migraines, and celiac disease show how these experiences are shaping their medical journey. They also discuss what colleagues present and future can do (or must do better) to understand and support those who face barriers due to their physical and mental conditions.
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Shocking betrayals, sure fire blindness, niche community drama
Apr 18, 2024
It’s a freestyle episode, come have some fun!
Sometimes it’s nice to just sit down and have a rambling conversation. That’s this episode, with MD/PhD students Madi Wahlen and Sahaana Arumugam and M3s Jacob Hansen and Jacob Lam.
We discuss the non-weighty topics of why people don’t know they shouldn’t stare at a ball of fusion in the sky, niche online community drama, a Texas transplant surgeon accused of manipulating transplant lists, everyday things that might not be things someday, why Dave doesn’t yet want an electric vehicle, the co-hosts plans for their futures beyond seeing patients, and so much more that is barely relevant to medical school.
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Let us know at https://theshortcoat.com/tellus and we’ll put your message in a future episode. Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
The PERFECT specialty? Occupational Medicine ft. Matthew Kiok, MD, MPH
Apr 11, 2024
Occupational Medicine offers a great lifestyle, scope mix, and early-career satisfaction
Matthew Kiok, MD, MPH tells us he’s found the perfect specialty. Occupational Medicine is one of those careers we’re exploring in our sleeper specialty series–those which you might not immediately think of when you’re considering a career as a physician. Dr. Kiok tells M1 Fallon Jung, PA1 Julie Vuong, and M2 Jeff Goddard that he has great work-life balance and a satisfying scope of practice. He makes a difference in peoples’ lives by keeping them safe in their workplaces or assessing work-related injuries, even testifying as an expert in court. His experiences highlight the unique challenges and rewarding moments in his chosen career and insights into the complicated relationship between doctors, employers, and employees. He offers advice to those considering a similar career path–and he even gave us his email address if you want to ask him more about it! What a guy!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Traits to Treat: Personality in Medicine
Apr 04, 2024
Tailoring your medical career to fit your personality
Are you better off as a surgeon or in palliative care? MD/PhD student Jacquelyn Nielson, M2 Hend Al-Kaylani, and M1 Fallon Jung play with personality to see if their path toward choosing the right medical specialty should be dependent on their personality traits. From the introspective nature of psychiatry to the rapid decision-making required in emergency medicine, Dave and crew explore how tests like The Big 5 or Meyers Briggs might influence their specialty choices. Some question the scientific validity of most personality testing, but the Big Five has some evidence behind it, so Dave also created a custom GPT to analyze their test results and suggest best (and worst) specialties for all of them. This episode also touches upon the broader implications of these choices on personal satisfaction and professional success in medicine. Also, we ponder our consumption of news and its impact on mental health and the Kate Middleton mystery’s hold on the world.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Small Towns, Big Impact: Rural Medicine ft. Peter Kaboli, MD
Mar 28, 2024
The unique experiences and challenges of practicing medicine where everyone knows your name
M1 Fallon Jung, PA1 Olivia Quinby, MD/PhD student Faith Prochaska, M2 Jeff Goddard, and special guest Dr. Peter Kaboli dive deep into the heart of rural medicine. We kick off with a candid discussion about growing up in small towns and how these experiences shape our understanding of community and healthcare.
Dr. Kaboli, an expert in rural health with the Veterans’ Administration, shares his insights into the nuances of rural medicine. We explore the multifaceted challenges and rewards of practicing medicine in rural settings, from the importance of forming deep connections with patients to navigating the scarcity of healthcare resources.
Telemedicine, workforce issues, geographic barriers, and the digital divide are central to the art of medicine in small towns and on county roads, sometimes requiring innovative approaches to healthcare delivery.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Listener asks: What does Patient Advocacy Look Like? (Recess Rehash)
Mar 21, 2024
[Because of Match Week and Spring Break, we didn’t record a new ep last week. Enjoy this rerun instead, and we’ll be back next week! –Dave]
Speaking up for your patients will have profound impacts
Short Coat Savannah’s previous work in mental health settings exposed her to situations where she had to report abuse. She left us a message at 347-SHORTCT asking us to talk about patient advocacy.
MD/PhD student Riley, PA1 Faith, M1 Jeff, and M3 Happy–along with some of our faculty–look at what doctors actually do to advocate for their patients in that situation, as well as other more common situations.
Plus, Jeff licks an elephant to right an old wrong.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). We want to know more about you: Take the Listener Survey We do more things on…
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
A Med School “cocktail” party (no party sounds)
Mar 14, 2024
[I’m releasing this second version with no background sound effects, for our friends who might find such things annoying. –Dave]
Come to our weird, casual get-together.
Dave hosts a weird cocktail party for his co-hosts, M1s Fallon Jung and Taryn O’Brian, MD/PhD student Jacqueline Nielson, and M3 Chirayu Shukla.
The group dives into a variety of topics: surreal dreams, spring break plans, which celebrity they would replace one of their organs with, book recommendations, personal stories, and AI-generated songs about Menards and Chirayu’s curtailed tennis career.
AI song lyrics
A Podcaster at Heart
I’m an administrative services coordinator But my heart’s on the mic, a podcast connoisseurIn a cubicle, with paperwork piled high But all I wanna do is let my voice fly I got responsibilities, emails to send But my mind’s on the episodes I haven’t penned I sneak in headphones, catchin’ up on my faves Dreamin’ ’bout the day I’ll be podcastin’ my own ways (ooh-yeah) [Chorus]I’m a podcaster at heart Living for those podcastin’ vibes, it’s an art While spreadsheets stack up, I’m in my own zone Dreamin’ ’bout the day when podcastin’ is my throne
The Jig of the Horse Loving Medic
Oh, I’m a medical student, learnin’ day and night But when I’m not studyin’, I’ve got a different delight I love horses, they bring me so much joy And Menards, oh Menards, it’s like a superstore of toys [Chorus]I take long walks down every aisle at Menards (oh yeah) From the lumber to the paint, it’s never too hard (woo!) With a bounce in my step, and a twinkle in my eye (uh-huh) I’m a horse-loving medic, livin’ life on a high (woo!)
No Regrets
[Verse] We don’t care ’bout the grades, don’t need no A’s Livin’ fast, we’re in a disobedient phase Don’t care ’bout the cash or the future ahead We’re just here for the punk rock, not the life we’re fed (ooh-yeah)
[Chorus] No regrets, we don’t give a damn Breakin’ all the rules, stickin’ it to the man No regrets, we live on the edge Skipping class, punk rock is what we pledge
Medicine or Tennis
In the dead of night, I’m stuck in time, Torn between two paths, My heart’s on the line,
A love for medicine. The field is my callin’ but the court’s my passion.
[URL template for episode https://media.blubrry.com/theshortcoat/podcast.uiowa.edu/com/osa/CHANGETHIS.mp3]
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
A Med School “cocktail” party
Mar 14, 2024
[This episode has some background sound, which maybe some listeners find annoying. Look for the second version, which has none of that. –Dave]
Come to our weird, casual get-together.
Dave hosts a weird cocktail party for his co-hosts, M1s Fallon Jung and Taryn O’Brian, MD/PhD student Jacquelyn Nielson, and M3 Chirayu Shukla.
The group dives into a variety of topics: surreal dreams, spring break plans, which celebrity they would replace one of their organs with, book recommendations, personal stories, and AI-generated songs about Menards and Chirayu’s curtailed tennis career.
AI song lyrics
A Podcaster at Heart
I’m an administrative services coordinator But my heart’s on the mic, a podcast connoisseurIn a cubicle, with paperwork piled high But all I wanna do is let my voice fly I got responsibilities, emails to send But my mind’s on the episodes I haven’t penned I sneak in headphones, catchin’ up on my faves Dreamin’ ’bout the day I’ll be podcastin’ my own ways (ooh-yeah) [Chorus]I’m a podcaster at heart Living for those podcastin’ vibes, it’s an art While spreadsheets stack up, I’m in my own zone Dreamin’ ’bout the day when podcastin’ is my throne
The Jig of the Horse Loving Medic
Oh, I’m a medical student, learnin’ day and night But when I’m not studyin’, I’ve got a different delight I love horses, they bring me so much joy And Menards, oh Menards, it’s like a superstore of toys [Chorus]I take long walks down every aisle at Menards (oh yeah) From the lumber to the paint, it’s never too hard (woo!) With a bounce in my step, and a twinkle in my eye (uh-huh) I’m a horse-loving medic, livin’ life on a high (woo!)
No Regrets
[Verse] We don’t care ’bout the grades, don’t need no A’s Livin’ fast, we’re in a disobedient phase Don’t care ’bout the cash or the future ahead We’re just here for the punk rock, not the life we’re fed (ooh-yeah)
[Chorus] No regrets, we don’t give a damn Breakin’ all the rules, stickin’ it to the man No regrets, we live on the edge Skipping class, punk rock is what we pledge
Medicine or Tennis
In the dead of night, I’m stuck in time, Torn between two paths, My heart’s on the line,
A love for medicine. The field is my callin’ but the court’s my passion.
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We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
The Sheriff is Watching, Ft. Bryan Carmody, MD
Mar 07, 2024
The Sheriff of Sodium investigates the current state and future of medical training
If you’ve wondered how well the system that trains future doctors works, or about what factors really determine which medical students get into the most competitive residency programs, this episode is for you.
M1 Fallon Jung, M2 Jeff Goddard, and M4 AJ Chowdhury get deep into these issues with a very special guest – Dr. Brian Carmody, known on his blog and YouTube channel as “The Sheriff of Sodium.”
Dr. Carmody, a pediatric nephrologist by training, closely analyzes and shares data-driven perspectives on medical education, pulling on threads to understand whether the current medical training system is truly functional, fair, and efficient, examining factors like student debt burdens, physician shortages projections, and the utility of metrics like Step 1 and Step 2 scores.
Like any good sheriff, Dr. Carmody is skeptical, especially about ideas like future physician shortages, and how schools report residency match outcomes.
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
the Exam Table and Beyond: The Role of a Family Doctor
Feb 29, 2024
An alumni of CCOM and SCP returns to prove: you can do it!
MD/PhD student Miranda Schene, M2 Jeff Goddard, and M1 Fallon Jung visit with alumni Teneme Konne, MD, now a second-year resident. They start by smacking their foreheads over AI-generated images in a recent medical journal, unpacking the rigorous demands of peer review and its pivotal role in scientific accuracy. The conversation then shifts to Dr. Konne’s journey in medicine, and the broad responsibilities of family medicine practitioners beyond clinical care. The resilience and growth he achieved during residency offer a comprehensive insight into the realities of becoming a doctor. Key moments include discussions on medical misinformation, the integral role of primary care physicians, and the personal and professional evolution experienced through residency. It wasn’t completely smooth, but he did it! And the crew discusses Medscape’s Physician Lifestyle & Happiness Report 2024.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Bias, Baby Heads, and Memes
Feb 22, 2024
Understanding others begins with asking questions.
Jacob successfully finished Step 1 and the co-hosts tap him for some of his insights from clinical rotations, particularly learning he won’t be pursuing a career in surgery.
Dave tries to understand an important aspect of med student culture using his Gen X brain: memes, including their potential as educational tools.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Love, Lobsters, and Loans: The Just Married Game
Feb 15, 2024
In the world of medicine, finding time for love is both an art and a science.
Happy Valentines Day! MD/PhD student Faith Prochaska, and M1s Taryn O’Brien and Fallon Jung share how they navigate relationships amidst their hectic schedules. With quizmaster Jeff Emrich from student financial services, they play The Just Married Game and discuss their personal plans, the balance between work and personal life, and their insights into relationships in med school through a series of questions answered by their partners–can they guess what their partners think of them? The group also touches on the impact of medical school on their personal lives, highlighting the importance of communication and support in maintaining strong relationships.
[URL template for episode https://media.blubrry.com/theshortcoat/podcast.uiowa.edu/com/osa/CHANGETHIS.mp3]
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Med School is SIMPLE?!
Feb 08, 2024
“I honestly have had the most relaxing time I’ve had in forever, and for anybody who’s like, that’s ridiculous, just wait.”
The most charitable definition of a hot take is a position taken in order to generate conversation. The more usual definition is a position taken to create controversy (and clicks).
Dave asked his co-hosts to come with some hot takes, and it’s up to you to decide which definition they’re using, but PA1 Conner Lieser and M1s Radha Velamuri, Amanda Litka, and Sri Nandakumar offer their hot takes on how hard med school is, the admissions process, shadowing, advice from more advanced students, and more.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Sleeper Specialty: Medicine Psychiatry ft. Andrea Weber, MD, MME
Feb 01, 2024
“A nice re-imagining of how healthcare could be delivered.”
It’s another sleeper specialty episode! This time we’re visiting with Andrea Weber, MD, MME.
Herself a graduate of the Carver College of Medicine, she is now assistant director of Addiction Medicine and associate program director of the Internal Medicine and Psychiatry residency program.
M4s AJ Chowdury and Nabeel Baig, M1 Fallon Jung, and PA1s Noah Vasquez and Julie Vuong quiz her about why she chose med-psych, the combined training she received, the different paths med-psych trainees can take, and much, much more. This is an info-packed episode!
[URL template for episode https://media.blubrry.com/theshortcoat/podcast.uiowa.edu/com/osa/CHANGETHIS.mp3]
We welcome your feedback, listener questions, and shower thoughts.
Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Can we answer a question for you? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? Leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). Or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Sleeper specialty: Preventive Medicine ft. Silvia Caswell DO, MPH
Jan 25, 2024
Preventing disease and injury in life, the skies, and at work.
It’s another sleeper specialty episode! This time we’re talking about a really low-key one: Preventive Medicine. M2 Jeff Goddard asked Dr. Silvia Caswell of Loma Linda University to join us to talk about her work in one aspect of prev med: lifestyle medicine.
There are others under the prev-med umbrella, too, including occupational medicine and aerospace medicine.
PA1 Conner Lieser is also on hand to talk about the training she completed, the work she does with patients, the differences between the work that primary care providers do and her work, and the day-to-day life of working in her specialty. You’re not going to want to miss this one.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). We want to know more about you: Take the Listener Survey We do more things on…
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Sleeper Specialty: Internal Medicine-Pediatrics Ft. Dr. Brittany Bettendorf
Jan 18, 2024
A relatively uncommon specialty can help move kids with childhood diseases to adult care
In another in our series on “sleeper specialties,” we visit with Internal Medicine-Pediatrics (med-peds) doc Brittany Bettendorf.
M1 Alex Nigg and M2 Madeline Ungs learn about this lesser known specialty that combines the detective work of internal medicine with a focus on kids with childhood diseases, including managing their transition to adult care. There aren’t many residencies for med-peds, which alone makes it a sleeper!
And Dr. Bettendorf talks about her work in medical humanities at CCOM as a Medicine and Society course director, Humanities Distinction Track co-director, editor of our literary journal, and more.
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). We want to know more about you: Take the Listener Survey We do more things on…
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Why Having a Pet in Med School is a Good Idea (Recess Rehash)
Jan 11, 2024
[It’s winter break for us here at the University of Iowa, so we’re taking a break. Our next new episode will be out January 18, 2024. In the meantime, enjoy this rerun!]
They may not help us pass our exams…but they definitely have upsides
A common question new medical students have is whether they should get a pet. Will they feel neglected when I have to be at the hospital or the library? Will they be too expensive for a poor med student? Will they be too much work?
The answer to those questions can be answered by realizing that PLENTY of us do own pets, and we all do just fine.
Also, Dave cornered some frightened-looking M1s during orientation for some people-on-the-street interviews. Riley, Mao, Madi and Matt discuss their answers.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Hot Takes: Med School Edition (Part 1?) (Recess Rehash)
Jan 04, 2024
[It’s winter break for us here at the University of Iowa, so we’re taking a break. Our next new episode will be out January 18, 2024. In the meantime, enjoy this rerun!]
These might be very bad ideas…but we’ll talk about them anyway.
Riley leads a discussion with Jeff, Levi, and Katie of unpopular opinions about medicine and medical education.
Anki sucks! Gap years should be mandatory! All clerkships should be optional! 8th graders should review scientific papers!
We don’t know about you, listeners, but the co-hosts enjoyed this discussion so much you can look for a part 2 in December!
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Belief at the Bedside (Recess Rehash)
Dec 28, 2023
[It’s winter break for us here at the University of Iowa, so we’re taking a break. Our next new episode will be out January 18, 2024. In the meantime, enjoy this rerun!]
Faith is an important part of the human condition–let’s explore that.
M1 Hend invited David Kozishek, a chaplain at the University of Iowa Hospitals and Clinics, to talk with M3 AJ, M1 Jeff and new co-host M1 Ervina to talk about the role of chaplains on the healthcare team.
David also helps the co-hosts discuss the role that religion may play in their lives as future physicians, the tensions and compatibilities between evidence and faith, and how they might respond when their own beliefs may in conflict with standard practices.
We’d love to hear your thoughts on this episode–does religion play a big part of your life? How would you respond to the scenarios we talked about? What questions do you have about the connections between faith and healthcare?
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Classroom Challenges and Global Goals
Dec 21, 2023
What the first semester of medical school is actually like
Short Coat co-hosts Brian Young (M1), Jeff Goddard (M2), and Fallon Jung (M1) discussed the challenges and experiences of medical school, including personal anecdotes about coping with stress, the demands of the curriculum, maintaining emotional well-being, the significance of peer support, and the importance of learning from both academic and personal experiences.
Brian talked about a student-led initiative, Nets for Nets, aimed at providing mosquito nets to a community in Southern Mexico, illustrating the blend of medical education with social responsibility.
Also, Dave shows his co-hosts pairs of images he got an AI to make, and his co-hosts try to work out which is the most like their actual medical school experiences thus far.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). We want to know more about you: Take the Listener Survey We do more things on…
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
What Medicine Really Needs from Artificial Intelligence, ft. Ilana Yurkiewicz (pt. 2)
Dec 14, 2023
Bringing the healthcare pieces together
Dr. Ilana Yurkiewicz, co-director of Stanford University’s Primary Care for Cancer Survivorship Program, author, and science journalist, returns to continue our discussion from November 9 about our fragmented health system and what can be done about it.
M2 Jeff Goddard, M1s Fallon Jung and Alex Nigg, and MD/PhD student Jacquelyn Nielson talk with her about what’s missing from the medical safety nets that help low SES patients get emergency care, what kind of AI we really need to bind pieces of of the system together (hint: AIs that offer differential diagnoses and other doctor stuff probably isn’t it!), and the need for continuous incremental change in medicine.
If we’re ever going to get there, she says, we need a collaborative approach with involvement from various stakeholders in healthcare, including patients, healthcare workers, programmers, insurance companies, and policymakers. The aim: to move medicine from a fee-for-service model to one that is driven by the actual value doctors provide their patients (and that removes bureaucratic burdens instead of creates them).
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). We want to know more about you: Take the Listener Survey We do more things on…
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
How Studying Changes from Premed to Clnicals (Recess Rehash)
Dec 07, 2023
[All Dave’s co-hosts were busy doing med student things when it came time to record, but it’s okay–they told him to just post a rerun. Enjoy!]
What you get away with as an undergrad won’t serve you in med school.
M2s Jacob and Maddie, M4 Mason and new co-host PA2 Mark take us through how they changed their study habits from undergrad through the clinical years.
Dave reads an old German folktale about how to become a doctor. Hint: it’s harder today, and involves much less mansplaining, but there’s at least one feature that still exists from antiquity.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
The Practicalities of Policy; Alex Trebot Returns
Nov 30, 2023
Democracy is messy
Dave declared this recording day to be “Effort Free Friday,” as it was officially Thanksgiving Break! That didn’t stop M2 Jeff Goddard from telling the story of a recent meeting of the AMA Students Section that offered an object lesson on how policy is (or in this case, isn’t) made.
Among many other topics, some students wanted the AMA to declare a position on the current Israel-Hamas war. In the end, the AMA declined to do so, perhaps deciding that it didn’t have the political capital on a divisive issue that could threaten its ability to participate in other conversations it has a more direct role in. Co-hosts M2 Happy Kumar, MD/PhD student Faith Goddard, and MD/PhD student Riley Behan Bush talk about their personal efforts to understand this compilated issue.
In the spirit of the tenets of Effort Free Friday, Dave dragged Alex Trebot out from the AI closet to host a trivia contest.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). We want to know more about you: Take the Listener Survey We do more things on…
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Top-notch Residents, Emergency Room Violence
Nov 23, 2023
The Critical Qualities to Ace Residency Interviews and Thrive in Medical Careers
A recent MedPage Today editorial shines a light on four traits that are crucial for every resident. These elements aren’t traditionally taught, but are key for future doctors. They encompass selflessness, optimism, personal responsibility, and a hunger for personal meaning. M4 Alex Belzer, who’s currently interviewing, and M2s Hend Al-Kaylani and Eric Vallin break them down, exploring how each can enhance both personal and professional interactions.
And a New York Times editorial video tackles a darker side of medical practice – violence against emergency medicine providers. The challenges faced chuck yet another curveball into the complex reality of a physician’s work-life, the erosion of human connection in healthcare, and the necessity to spark change.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). We want to know more about you: Take the Listener Survey We do more things on…
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Sleeper Specialties: Nuclear Medicine
Nov 16, 2023
Medicine, Work-Life Balance, and Physics, together at last
Dr. Michael Graham, a seasoned Nuclear Medicine practitioner and professor at the University of Iowa, reached out to us recently because at a national level his specialty is experiencing a shortage of new residents. The reasons for this include a less-than-perfect fit with the way it’s traditionally been lumped into radiology, a field with some parallels but some important training differences.
M1 Fallon Jung, PA1s Olivia Quinby and Noah Vasquez, and M2 Jeff Goddard talk with Dr. Graham about how the field has evolved and changed the dynamics of patient care and medical practice.
Decoding Nuclear Medicine with Dr. Michael Graham
For those in the dark, nuclear medicine is the area of medical practice that uses radioisotopes for diagnosis and, increasingly, treatment. The secret weapon is the ability to see bodily function and metabolism unlike routine imaging.
One reason we think nuke med is a sleeper specialty is lifestyle–compared to some of the more procedural specialties like surgery or OB, there is a more regular schedule on offer. Dr. Graham suggests that those who might find a good fit with nuke med studied engineering or physical sciences, and he offers some pointers for students considering a career in nuclear medicine and how it intersects with the broader field of radiology.
Touching on future trends in healthcare, we discussed newer ‘theranostic’ agents – a combination of therapeutic and diagnostic modalities. This rapid and promising development offers targeted treatment – increasing effectiveness while minimizing side effects.
Ensuring Work-Life Balance
Dr. Graham also helps us answer listener Molly’s question: how do medical students and doctors achieve a balance between their work and their personal lives. The balance in nuke med, as Dr. Graham highlights, can be somewhat smoother than in other medical specialties.
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Piecing Together American Healthcare, ft. Dr. Ilana Yurkiewicz (Part 1)
Nov 09, 2023
We have GOT to get it together
What’s the best way to navigate a fragmented healthcare system? How are patients both the victims and unwitting custodians of their own medical stories? And can primary care address gaps in long-term cancer treatment? We had a fun conversation with Dr. Ilana Yurkiewicz, the author of ‘Fragmented, A Doctor’s Quest to Piece Together American Healthcare.’ Jeff, Fallon, AJ, and Alex walked away not only enlightened about the gaps in the contemporary healthcare system but also the importance of primary care and specialists working together to build patient relationships and keep clinical information flowing.
The Primary Care Revelation
Dr. Yurkiewicz took an unconventional career path. Why would a trained medical oncologist with board certifications in hematology and oncology choose to open a primary care practice for cancer patients and survivors, you might wonder? The answer delves deep into the very core of our healthcare system’s inefficiencies.
Cancer treatment doesn’t end at remission. The aftermath brings a basket full of new health issues that often go overlooked. During these critical times, patients need primary care doctors who are also knowledgeable about oncology — enter the innovative primary care practice Dr. Yurkiewicz established.
Fixing Fragmentation in Healthcare
Unfortunately, the tools physicians use to track their patients’ progress aren’t great at sharing. The shortcomings of electronic medical records (EMR) are a source of frustration that healthcare providers commonly face due to their disjointed nature. Keeping the patient in the loop when it comes to their reports and critical information was highlighted as a key responsibility of healthcare providers in a fragmented system–the current state of affairs is that the patient is the one with the most incentive to keep track of their data! This only highlights the urgent need for an interconnected EMR system, that patients are often the only source of continuity in their healthcare narrative.
A Glimpse Into the Future of Healthcare
There are countries that do this better, but modifying the existing system rather than attempting to building a new one from scratch based on them may be tough. Though countries like the Netherlands boast more streamlined healthcare systems, it’s crucial to devise a model that accommodates the unique challenges and strengths of American healthcare and culture.
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). We want to know more about you: Take the Listener Survey We do more things on…
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Selfie-Diagnosis, Fentanyl Anti-Doses
Nov 02, 2023
Dave’s been seeing a lot of videos on social media that suggest “You might have {insert condition} if you {insert experience or behavior that most people have or do to some degree}.” Which is great–it’s always nice to know that you are not alone, that your experience is not unique. But how should physicians work with a social media self-diagnosis?
There may some day be a vaccine against fentanyl, meant to protect against overdoses. This is great news, if it works out, because people die from fentanyl overdose every day. Who will get it, what affect it will have on anesthesia, and the parallels to how people view HPV vaccines will among the things we’ll be watching.
And Dave has co-hosts Jeff, Jacquelyn, Faith, and Riley practice their doctoring on each other.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). We want to know more about you: Take the Listener Survey We do more things on…
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Health Is An Outfit That Looks Different On Every Body
Oct 26, 2023
Do docs and patients mean the same thing when they talk about ‘health?’
Fallon, Sri, Radha, and Kait discuss the concept of ‘health.’ What does healthy mean to our patients? What does it mean to physicians? The definition has changed over time–from freedom from disease to a more self-actualizing concept of thriving in one’s circumstances. Even the normal body temp of 37 degrees C is changing! Is nothing sacred?
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). We want to know more about you: Take the Listener Survey We do more things on…
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
But thanks to fans of the famous vlogbrothers, John and Hank Green, the world has some additional tools to fight a disease which we’ve been able to cure for decades, lacking only the will to do it.
And Dave tells what he learned this week about Katalin Karikó, the Hungarian-born researcher who, despite being cast aside as a crank in the 1980s, received the Nobel Prize in 2023 for 40+ years of work that saved millions of lives in just a couple short years–and which is now about to revolutionize medicine.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Med-Techbros, Shortage Woes, and Ig Nobel Probes
Oct 12, 2023
As another physician shortage looms, M2s Jeff and Olivia and M1 Fallon look at the reasons–the market forces, political issues, and the missing incentives. There is some good news–a shortage of physicians means that residents get a ton of solicitations for post-training jobs.
Elon Musk’s Neuralink might be bad for monkeys, but the FDA has cleared the way for human trials to begin. What place do techbros–who have a rep for “moving fast and breaking things”– have in medicine where lives are at stake?
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Physician Assistants: From Clinic to O.R., Partners in Health
Oct 05, 2023
[Content warning: this episode contains discussions interprofessional trust and understanding that people who complain about mid-level creep will find disturbing. Listener discretion is advised.]
Partners in Health
Physician Associate (formerly Physician Assistant) students learn the preclinical curriculum right along side their Doctor of Medicine colleagues here at Iowa. Of course, that means they learn the same things, but also the level of trust and mutual understanding between the two professions is that much more explicit. October 6 to 12 is Physician Associates Week, and PA1 producer Noah Vasquez rounded up some classmates–Olivia Quinby, Emily Sarvis, and Noah Herkert–to talk about how they chose their future profession, what they’re learning, and what their plans are after they graduate.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
The Chains of Med Ed History, with Adam Rodman (Recess Rehash)
Sep 28, 2023
[We’re taking a week off to recover from a really hard exam. Okay, it’s because Dave screwed up the schedule, but here’s a rerun you’ll enjoy ICYMI, and we’ll be back next week with a new episode]
The beginning of the 20th century brought huge changes to medicine; we’re still trying to cope with them
Special guest Dr. Adam Rodman, visits with M1s Jeff, Faith, and Linda and PA1 Kelsey, to talk about “path dependency,” the idea that a complex system (like medical education) is almost impossible to change without starting over. The path we have taken to today constrains what we can do tomorrow.
We discuss the founding of medical education as we know it today and how that has created an academic medicine system that values facts, science, and publication more than things like equity, empathy, and work-life balance.
The good news is that very dedicated people are working to make the sorely needed adjustments to these areas and more…without burning it all down and starting again.
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
[Content warning: this episode contains discussions of maternal mortality.]
Maternal mortality doubled in the 21st Century.
Motherhood is a revered institution in many cultures, but in the good old US of A there’s one area where mothers are being failed: medicine. Maternal mortality continues to increase to alarming levels, especially among people of color. We explore our thoughts on why, and what doctors can do in an environment in which financial profit is a prime motivator for health systems, rural areas are losing OBs, and nurse staffing levels are too low. Plus, we hear from some influencers with their health advice in a game of unnecessary censorship.
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No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). We want to know more about you: Take the Listener Survey We do more things on…
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Major vs. Medicine: How we Decided
Sep 14, 2023
How should Thomas choose between his great career options?
We’ve all been there: faced with some good options, which one do we choose? Listener Thomas wrote in with his dilemma: he studied and loves engineering, but what about medicine? M1s Jacquelyn Nielson, Fallon Jung, and Sri Nandakumar discuss what they studied as undergrads, what made them realize that medicine is the right path, and how to become certain about that. Also, women surgeons are better than male surgeons, according to yet another study, and a supermarket’s chatbot recommends meals for busy people, like delicious chlorine gas.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). We want to know more about you: Take the Listener Survey We do more things on…
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
AMA says “provider” is out; OB/Gyn ditches residency application they helped create
Sep 07, 2023
Why docs don’t like the word “provider,” and the surprise dealt to the AAMC by OB residency programs
A Delaware-based health system is taking a stand against the use of the term “provider” to describe physicians. The AMA agrees, saying they oppose the term “provider” as inadequate and urging physicians to insist on being identified as such. Co-hosts Nicole (Pathology Extern), Riley (MD/PhD student), and Jeff (M2) discuss why that word might not capture what doctors do.
In the mid 90s, OB/Gyn residencies helped to pilot the Association of American Medical Colleges’ Electronic Residency Application Service, or ERAS. This year, to the “surprise and dismay” of the AAMC, the OB residencies are jumping ship this year and starting their own system.
Despite the oft-repeated trivia, urine isn’t sterile. I know!
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No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). We want to know more about you: Take the Listener Survey We do more things on…
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
The Evolution of Acceptable
Aug 31, 2023
Why do we struggle to change when our world changes around us?
Philadelphia’s Mütter Museum is beloved by its visitors. Styled as an homage to Victorian displays of medical and biological curiosities, its exhibits include human remains with extreme pathologies…and sometimes dubious provenance.
Once such items were joyfully collected by rich men to fill their cabinets of curiosities. But times have changed since the museum opened in 1863. The museum’s leaders have decided to reassess the exhibits’ ethical and moral qualities, despite the anger of devoted fans who like it fine the way it is, thanks.
Dave, M2 Jeff Goddard, and new co-host M1 Fallon Jung discuss our all-too-human resistance to change, as well as a proposal by a consumer group to open access to a ‘secret’ database of state medical boards’ disciplinary actions against physicians, which they hope will prod medical boards to do their jobs better.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). We want to know more about you: Take the Listener Survey We do more things on…
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Are We More Empathetic than AI?
Aug 24, 2023
AI chatbots can help brainstorm ways to communicate more compassionately.
We decided to test ourselves on our efforts to bring up awkward topics with patients and others by comparing our answers to those provided by Anthropic’s Claude-2. Did M2 Jeff Goddard, M3 Betty Tu, M2 Yumi Engelking, and MD/PhD student Riley Behan-Bush do better than a bot?
And we review some of the health advice found on social media, including videos by Tik Tok’s urmomstoering, angelapharmd, heyitskikiiiiii, and mirandaksmith.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). We want to know more about you: Take the Listener Survey We do more things on…
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Dr. Paul Offit Continues The Fight Against Vaccine Misinformation
Aug 17, 2023
Meet one doctor working to counter once-fringe anti-vax conspiracy theorists.
M2 Jeff Goddard invited internationally-renowned virology and immunology expert Dr. Paul Offit on the show to talk about his lifelong struggle to fight vaccine misinformation.
MD/PhD Students Riley Behan-Bush, and Madi Wahlen join Jeff to talk with Dr. Offit about his work educating politicians and policy-makers (as well as battling anti-vaxxers like 2024 presidential candidate RFK, Jr.) and with the Vaccine Education Center at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia.
One thing is for certain: though fear and doubt about vaccines have existed since the first smallpox vaccine, in the age of social media educating the public about vaccines and science hasn’t gotten any easier.
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). We want to know more about you: Take the Listener Survey We do more things on…
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
jump right in or watch and learn: standing out In Clerkships
Aug 10, 2023
How do you choose between jumping in with both feet vs. watching and learning?
Listener Jordan DM’d to say that she’s having trouble finding the right balance of initiative and observation in her clerkships. To stand out, should she jump into situations and try to contribute? Or is it better to step back and observe?
M2s Trent, Bridget, Maddie, and Yumi discuss their ideas about it, and we ask some faculty and experienced students to weigh in.
Plus, a dumb folktale by chatGPT offers us the story of radiologist Dr. William his magical radiograph-reading chicken Clara.
More about our guest:
Website URL Social Media URL Amazon URL [URL template for episode https://media.blubrry.com/theshortcoat/podcast.uiowa.edu/com/osa/CHANGETHIS.mp3]
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No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). We want to know more about you: Take the Listener Survey We do more things on…
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Breaking the Silence: Judge Rosemarie Aquilina on the Power of Trauma-Informed Care (Recess Rehash)
Aug 03, 2023
[Dave is on vacation this week, so have a listen to this previously aired episode. A Note to Listeners: this episode features discussions of sex abuse, rape, and other crimes that many listeners will find disturbing.]
Insights From the Bench on How Doctors Can Work With The Law To Protect Victims of Sexual Assault.
Trauma informed care, restorative justice, and compassionate advocacy are all tools that must be shared between the law and medicine.
As Aline and Jessica discuss very sensitive and disturbing topics with her–listeners beware–we think you’ll find Judge Aquilina’s courage and values resonant with attributes of the best medical practitioners.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Bad Advice is a Leaky Umbrella (Recess Rehash)
Jul 27, 2023
[Dave is on vacation this week, so enjoy this previously aired episode]
Recognizing good advice and discarding the bad is part of the admissions process
Aline has finished her PhD! She walks Jeff, Riley, and AJ through what defending a dissertation is like, and looks back on some of the things she’s learned about herself and about science.
And, bad advice is like a leaky umbrella that lets you down when you need it most. So how do you recognize good advice and distinguish it from bad advice when you’re applying to medical school?
[URL template for episode https://media.blubrry.com/theshortcoat/podcast.uiowa.edu/com/osa/CHANGETHIS.mp3]
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Speaking up for your patients will have profound impacts
Short Coat Savannah’s previous work in mental health settings exposed her to situations where she had to report abuse. She left us a message at 347-SHORTCT asking us to talk about patient advocacy.
MD/PhD student Riley, PA1 Faith, M1 Jeff, and M3 Happy–along with some of our faculty–look at what doctors actually do to advocate for their patients in that situation, as well as other more common situations.
Plus, Jeff licks an elephant to right an old wrong.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). We want to know more about you: Take the Listener Survey We do more things on…
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
How will schools assemble student bodies that reflect society?
The Supreme Court has struck down the use of race-conscious admissions practices–affirmative action–that many colleges use to counteract bias against admitting people of color. Short Coats Hend (M2), Nicole (M3), Faith (MD/PhD) and AJ (M4) discuss why that’s a problem for patients, and what might happen now that AdComms are forced to use proxies to diversify their classes.
Harvard continues it’s run of bad legal luck with the news that its morgue manager has been selling body parts. And chatbots are helping docs talk to their patients with more empathy.
Dave subjects his co-hosts to another concoction of food items.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). We want to know more about you: Take the Listener Survey We do more things on…
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Brains Learning About Brains
Jul 06, 2023
Consciousness remains a final frontier of neuroscience and psychiatry…and even immunology
M2s Trent Gilbert, Olivia Jenks, PA1 Faith Anton, and M4 Sarah Costello discuss what it might mean that doctors recently discovered a group of patients, previously diagnosed with schizophrenia, who might actually have other treatable immunological disorders that present as psych disorders.
We also discuss a new world record kidney stone, medical refugees legislation and healthcare discrimination right here in the US, and an eating disorders chatbot that dispenses terrible advice to people with eating disorders.
And, Dave subjects his co-hosts to a pop news pop quiz.
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). We want to know more about you: Take the Listener Survey We do more things on…
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
The True Value of Pre Med Shadowing
Jun 29, 2023
Think of it as education you don’t have to pay for!
In an episode best described as…laid back?…calm?…sleepy?…Nicole, Alex, and Sarah discuss why those AdComm-required experiences are actually important.
Both the colleges and the applicants themselves benefit from them, but in the rush to ‘get them over with,’ their utility gets overlooked.
Instead, they’re often seen by applicants as a means to an end, not an end in and of themselves.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). We want to know more about you: Take the Listener Survey We do more things on…
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
The Ethics of End-of-Life Care (Recess Rehash)
Jun 22, 2023
[We’ll be back next week with a new episode! For now, take a listen to this re-run!]
Decisions made at the end of life are among the most complicated.
M1 Jeff, M3 Ananya, and MD/PhD students Riley and Miranda discuss what they’re taught about the ethics surrounding the end of life.
What are the physician’s responsibilities? How do they balance the patient’s wishes, the family’s desires, the directive to do no harm and to provide the best possible care, and the need to ensure that such considerations are supplied to any and all patients.
Add in the myriad cultural and religious beliefs that doctors, patients, and families have, and you get quite a difficult set of calculations to ponder.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Spring Break Trivia with a Twist (Recess Rehash)
Jun 15, 2023
[Due to life happening in rather sudden and annoying ways, we weren’t able to record an episode for this week. Enjoy this re-run!]
Med students are smart, but how much useless info can they spout?
It’s Spring Break, so we’re taking a break from our usual content to bring you a trivia contest featuring M4 Emerald, MD/PhD students Riley and Faith, and CCOM Learning Communities Coordinator Cody.
Dave created a trivia bot using chatGPT, and to ratchet up the tension, he poured some shots of mysterious and probably unpleasant liquids to punish his co-hosts’ wrong answers.
Happily for his co-hosts, it didn’t work out well for Dave.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Uncovered! First-Year Students Learn Way More than Medicine
Jun 08, 2023
First year of med school contains many life lessons.
We are fortunate to have a friends group of first-year students on the show to look back on their experience and reflect on what they discovered.
M1s Olivia and Katie, and PA1 Faith talked with Dave and admissions guru Rachel about how their lives have changed, what they realized about themselves, and their plan for incorporating those lessons into year 2.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). We want to know more about you: Take the Listener Survey We do more things on…
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Our Hobbies Save Us
Jun 01, 2023
The importance of getting your head outside of medical school.
Lots of people have hobbies, and perhaps many of those people use them to step outside their day-to-day lives for a while for a peaceful break. Is there time for a hobby or three in medical school?
M3s AJ and Alex, M1 Hend, and MD/PhD student Sam say there absolutely is! In fact, it’s possible the importance of finding time for your outside interests is greater in medical school than any other time!
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). We want to know more about you: Take the Listener Survey We do more things on…
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
Oath Vs. Enterprise: Moral Injury in Medicine with Wendy Dean
May 25, 2023
Burnout is the wrong word for what’s ailing healthcare workers
The term burnout doesn’t really cover what happens to physicians and others in healthcare. Dr. Wendy Dean and others are coming around to the idea that what’s really happening is moral injury–what happens when you want to do the right thing but aren’t allowed to do it.
M1s Jeff, Faith, and Linda visit with Dr. Dean to talk about moral injury, what people are doing about it, and what still needs to be done.
Her book, If I Betray These Words, is available everywhere, and is a great read for anyone interested in knowing why their doctor can’t just do what’s right for their patient.
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). We want to know more about you: Take the Listener Survey We do more things on…
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
President Garfield’s Doc had the Worst Take on Pus, ft. Ryan Nanni
May 18, 2023
Some stories from history that remind us medicine has come a long way
Podcaster Ryan Nanni, of the Shutdown Fullcast, joins M2 Matt, M1 Jeff, Md/PhD student Riley, and Communities Director Cody to talk about some ‘fun’ stories from history.
For example, how did a man named “Doctor” (his first name) probably kill President Garfield? And what was the dumbest, most dangerous marathon in Olympics history?
Plus, the disease that helped make the cowboy hat a thing.
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”). We want to know more about you: Take the Listener Survey We do more things on…
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.Music provided by Argofox. License: bit.ly/CCAttribution DOCTOR VOX – Heatstroke: youtu.be/j1n1zlxzyRE Catmosphere – Candy-Coloured Sky: youtu.be/AZjYZ8Kjgs8 Hexalyte – Wandering Hours: youtu.be/FOAo2zsYnvA
The Chains of Med Ed History, with Adam Rodman
May 11, 2023
The beginning of the 20th century brought huge changes to medicine; we’re still trying to cope with them
Special guest Dr. Adam Rodman, visits with M1s Jeff, Faith, and Linda and PA1 Kelsey, to talk about “path dependency,” the idea that a complex system (like medical education) is almost impossible to change without starting over. The path we have taken to today constrains what we can do tomorrow.
We discuss the founding of medical education as we know it today and how that has created an academic medicine system that values facts, science, and publication more than things like equity, empathy, and work-life balance.
The good news is that very dedicated people are working to make the sorely needed adjustments to these areas and more…without burning it all down and starting again.
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Faith is an important part of the human condition–let’s explore that.
M1 Hend invited David Kozishek, a chaplain at the University of Iowa Hospitals and Clinics, to talk with M3 AJ, M1 Jeff and new co-host M1 Ervina to talk about the role of chaplains on the healthcare team.
David also helps the co-hosts discuss the role that religion may play in their lives as future physicians, the tensions and compatibilities between evidence and faith, and how they might respond when their own beliefs may in conflict with standard practices.
We’d love to hear your thoughts on this episode–does religion play a big part of your life? How would you respond to the scenarios we talked about? What questions do you have about the connections between faith and healthcare?
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
The process of “doing research” is a methodical slog
AJ has finished up some interventional radiology research and gotten it published recently. He and Daniel, Jeff, and Mallory–who’ve all been down that road–walk Dave through the research process, step by step.
The crew discusses how they’ve found a problem to examine, done the background lit searches, gotten approval from the ethics watchdogs, collected data, written it up, and submitted the finished research to a journal.
Plus, Dave gives everyone a pop quiz on the latest fascinating research from some random website he found–research you can USE, though you might want to ask someone before you start sniffing their pits.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Recognizing good advice and discarding the bad is part of the admissions process
Aline has finished her PhD! She walks Jeff, Riley, and AJ through what defending a dissertation is like, and looks back on some of the things she’s learned about herself and about science.
And, bad advice is like a leaky umbrella that lets you down when you need it most. So how do you recognize good advice and distinguish it from bad advice when you’re applying to medical school?
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We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
What Physicians Can Do to Reduce Gun Violence Harm
Apr 13, 2023
[Content warning: this episode contains discussions of an issue that some listeners will see as political, and with which others may have tragic experience. Listener discretion is advised.]
Guns are a fact of life, so let’s deal with the problems more effectively.
The ownership of firearms is a uniquely American right, and for some, a uniquely American problem.
Gun deaths recently passed motor vehicle accidents as the most common cause of death for children (for certain demographic definitions of the word).
Jeff, Miranda, Kelsey, and Dave discuss what public health and medicine has to offer on mitigating gun violence in ways that won’t abridge the right to bear arms.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Who Decides We Have Enough Evidence to Stop Debating?
Apr 06, 2023
Questions lead to experimentation, which leads to evidence, allowing for conclusions, and then–voila!–practice.
Equipoise was a new word for Dave, Mitch, Nathen and Riley. Jeff explains that it describes a state of equilibrium at which debate on a topic is no longer required, and factuality has effectively been achieved.
But in science, that state has time and again been upset by new ideas and evidence that initially seem wrong. So, who decides whether the debate is remains open, or has gone on long enough?
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Co-Surviving Medicine, With the Glaucomfleckens
Mar 30, 2023
Dr. and Lady G have a new podcast!
Will and Kristin Flanary, better known as Dr. and Lady Glaucomflecken, visit with The Short Coats to talk about their new podcast, Knock Knock, Hi!
AJ, Madi, Zay, Jacob, and Hend talk with the Flanarys about the value of satirizing medicine–a surprisingly universal source of workplace comedy–an its ability to humanize physicians.
Kristin discusses her experiences as co-survivor of everything Dr. Flanary has put her through, like cancer (twice), midnight cardiac arrest, and–shudder–medical school.
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Med students got jobs, and most are even happy about it.
Match week, when senior medical students select/are selected for their post-graduation jobs as junior residents, was for CCOM a success. That doesn’t mean it isn’t nerve-wracking for all involved. M1 Jeff, MD/PhD students Faith and Daniel, and M2 Jacob look at the nationwide stats and find room for optimism about their own future prospects.
And Dave asks his co-hosts provocative questions to get them to fall in love with him. It didn’t work.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Med students are smart, but how much useless info can they spout?
It’s Spring Break, so we’re taking a break from our usual content to bring you a trivia contest featuring M4 Emerald, MD/PhD students Riley and Faith, and CCOM Learning Communities Coordinator Cody.
Dave created a trivia bot using chatGPT, and to ratchet up the tension, he poured some shots of mysterious and probably unpleasant liquids to punish his co-hosts’ wrong answers.
Happily for his co-hosts, it didn’t work out well for Dave.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
PA 1 Kelsey, M1 Faith, M3 Rick, and M4 Ananya talk about the changes they’ve seen in themselves since arriving at medical school.
No matter how prepared you are, there are some things about being a medical student that can’t be understood until you are one…and until you’re almost done with medical school.
Listener Cathy, a registered nutritionist dietician, wants to go to medical school after 25 years in healthcare…but her physician friends think she’s crazy. Should she trust her gut, or the people ‘living the dream?’
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
The things everyone gets wrong about medicine and medical education
Your family and friends, maybe even students themselves before they got to med school, have some weird ideas about doctors and medical school. No matter where these ideas come from–medical dramas, social media, movies–chances are you’ll find yourself explaining them or falling for them.
M4s Mason and Talia, and M1s Jeff and Trent discuss the myths and misunderstandings they’ve heard about their world.
Also, stories of medical students embarrassing themselves. It’s part of learning, but also cringe.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Now We Wait: Keeping Busy As They Decide Our Fate
Feb 23, 2023
How medical students keep from going nuts while programs and schools decide they’re worthy
This is the season of uncertainty, as both pre-meds and med ask themselves, “will they let me in?”
It’s out of their hands, but M4 Mason, M3 Ananya Munjal, and M1s Jeff and Faith have some experience to draw upon to keep you from going nuts.
Also, we discuss the revolt underway as medical schools around the country back away from the US News and World Reports rankings.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
UVA med students create app to find AnKing flashcards for you.
M3s AJ and Ananya, and M4 Mason get a visit from the medical student creators of the machine-learning app NovaCards.ai.
Shane Chambers and Jordan Bagnall (and their co-founder Charbel Marche) found themselves spending tons of time finding AnKing flashcards to learn pre-clinical medicine, so they did what any modern medical student with AI-building chops does: get a computer to do it for them, automagically!
NovaCards is especially useful during pre-clinical courses, but Shane also talks about how he’s been using it himself during clinicals–and you can join the fun for free.
We also discuss the state of (and barriers to) the use of artificial intelligence in medicine.
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
The Genetic Engineering Debate isn’t as Easy as You Think
Feb 09, 2023
How straightforward is any discussion about genetic engineering?
M1 Jeff talks with M3 Ananya, MD/PhD student Riley, and M3 AJ about the nuances of genetic engineering, a scientific pursuit that not everyone agrees should happen.
Despite that view, it seems likely that genetic engineering has been, is, and will be an increasingly available tool in medicine’s arsenal as our understanding of genetics increases.
But first, we answer Listener Helina’s question: what should she be thinking about when picking medical school electives?
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M4 Nathan, M1s Trent and Leon, and MD/PhD student Aline talk about the nature of trust–what it really means, how we trust ourselves and others, and what it means when it’s lost.
Trust is, after all, the thing that makes much of society possible–it’s the belief that people do not only what’s in their own interest, but what’s in the best interest of other people.
Medicine is a perfect domain to explore trust, given what doctors ask of patients and what patients ask of doctors.
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Decisions made at the end of life are among the most complicated.
M1 Jeff, M3 Ananya, and MD/PhD students Riley and Miranda discuss what they’re taught about the ethics surrounding the end of life.
What are the physician’s responsibilities? How do they balance the patient’s wishes, the family’s desires, the directive to do no harm and to provide the best possible care, and the need to ensure that such considerations are supplied to any and all patients.
Add in the myriad cultural and religious beliefs that doctors, patients, and families have, and you get quite a difficult set of calculations to ponder.
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No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
They Came, They Saw, They Figured It Out: Tales from First Semester
Jan 19, 2023
Three Medical Students’ perspectives on their first med school semester
Co-hosts Hend, Brian, and Leon are on hand to discuss the things they learned in first semester about medical school, including how their own understanding of it has changed.
What is medical school like in those first, rather intense few months? Did they adjust to the (much) faster pace? Did they learn the language of medicine? Have they found their people?
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
“Soft” Skills: The Importance of Learning to Communicate
Jan 12, 2023
Communication skills are just as important as medical knowledge and clinical skills
M3 Ananya, M3 Eric, MD/PhD student Madi, and our admissions guru Rachel talk about communication skills and their importance for patient outcomes, professional development and advancement, and career satisfaction.
Whether it’s patients reviewing their notes in the electronic health record, residents passing on knowledge to students, providers empathetically communicating findings and plans to patients with no scientific background, or scientists collaborating professionally with their colleagues, everything depends on this thing that humans do all the time–with varying degrees of success.
Meanwhile, some students may see these as “soft” skills, giving less importance to them than grades on exams or their scores on boards.
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Trauma informed care, restorative justice, and compassionate advocacy are all tools that must be shared between the law and medicine.
As Aline and Jessica discuss very sensitive and disturbing topics with her–listeners beware–we think you’ll find Judge Aquilina’s courage and values resonant with attributes of the best medical practitioners.
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You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Race Is Everywhere In Medicine–Meet A Student Trying To Change That (Recess Rehash)
Dec 29, 2022
Is race, a social construct, appropriately used to make medical decisions?
Race is commonly spoken of in medicine as a risk factor for diseases. It has even found its way into the equations that help doctors assess biological function.
But is race–commonly acknowledged these days as a social construct and not a biological one–really a valid way to factor in the differences between one patient and another? M3 Vijay and other students are helping lead the charge to re-assess these ideas.
Also, MD/PHD students Aline, Levi, and Riley help listener Michelina decide what to do about her hair during interviews…and debate whether aspiring docs should even be worried about their physical look when applying.
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How to Get Involved in Meaningful Med School Research
Dec 22, 2022
And what does “meaningful” mean?
This episode is about how med students should think about research projects, how to get involved, what to look for in a mentor, and realistic expectations for research in medical school.
Co-hosts Chandler, Jeff, Matt, and Faith talk with Robert Roghair, MD, the director of our Medical Student Research Program to find out what it means to do research during medical school.
Dave makes his co-hosts take a pop quiz on Holiday Season research posted at StudyFinds.org.
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PHI RHO: ANOTHER CO-OP HOUSING OPTION
Dec 15, 2022
Another “frat” is more evidence that housing co-ops work in med school.
After our recent episode with members of AKK, the students living at Phi Rho wanted their time on the show. Tracy, Mitch, Jeff, and Ashray stop by to discuss their own beloved housing arrangement.
The gang plays another of Dave’s weird games, in which his co-hosts try to match each other’s energies with a sound-based guessing game.
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More possibly terrible ideas about how the world should work
Dave and Riley enjoyed the first hot takes episode so much, they decided to do a follow up of those they didn’t get to.
Aline, Alec, and Miranda join in, with their takes: no medical students who haven’t failed, Tik Tok filters are doing to damage to children’s brains, students lie about their ability to hear heart murmurs, and more.
Listener and US Marine Tanner writes in to ask about his undergraduate education plan as his military service draws to a close, but Dave has concerns about how admissions committees will view undergrad education at a for-profit institution.
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You Should NOT Go to Med School (Recess Rehash)
Dec 01, 2022
At least, not until you understand these IMPORTANT downsides
[We took a break for Thanksgiving, so here’s a rerun to enjoy! Happy Holidays!]
Co-hosts Aline, Riley, Jacob, and Tracy discuss why they’d have reconsidered their desire to go to medical school…if only they’d known!
Things like medical ‘hazing,’ the opportunity costs, and the heirarchical nature of medicine are all infuriating at times, and cause a sort of stress that can make students miserable. Forewarned is forearmed!
Plus, listener John and his fiancé will be applying to medical school together. Is that even a good idea, and should they tell their schools about it?
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You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Urology = Mac & Cheese, and other Thanksgiving Questions Answered
Nov 24, 2022
What Thanksgiving dish will you become?
Happy Thanksgiving! Dave and co-hosts Matt, Miranda, Happy, and Chirayu take a moment to acknowledge and call out those they’re thankful for.
The gang settles an age-old question: what medical specialty would each Thanksgiving dish be?
Listener Thor wants to know: how can he be the best and most “helpful” shadower possible?
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Co-op housing saves money for health professions students
Housing is among the most expensive parts of the medical student budget, but here at Iowa there is an option that could serve as a model for students at other schools looking for inexpensive housing that comes with friends!
The Alpha Kappa Kappa Medical Society started in the early 20th century as a fraternity, but in more recent times has evolved into a housing co-op/collective–owned and maintained by its residents rather than a landlord looking for profit.
Zay, Conor, Nolan, and Ian discuss its organization, weird bits of its history, and purpose; and its community of not just medical students, but all the other healthcare students who live, study, and play there.
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Hot Takes: Med School Edition (Part 1?)
Nov 10, 2022
These might be very bad ideas…but we’ll talk about them anyway.
Riley leads a discussion with Jeff, Levi, and Katie of unpopular opinions about medicine and medical education.
Anki sucks! Gap years should be mandatory! All clerkships should be optional! 8th graders should review scientific papers!
We don’t know about you, listeners, but the co-hosts enjoyed this discussion so much you can look for a part 2 in December!
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Zebra Hoofbeats: Rare Compassion for People with Rare Diseases
Nov 03, 2022
“Rare Compassion” links medical students with families living with rare diseases
M2s Matt, Happy, and Jacob, and MD/PhD student Levi welcome Rachel Barron and M4 Dao Tran to talk about a program which links medical students with families and patients suffering from rare genetic conditions.
Rare Compassion from Global Genes seeks to build mutual understanding between learners and people with untreatable or unknown conditions as they navigate a healthcare system that has difficulty dealing with ambiguity.
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Many medical students decide to take a year “off” to do research. But is it necessary?
M2s Zach and Elvire, PA2 Ethan, and Md/PhD students Miranda and Riley talk about why a student would want to take a whole year out of med school to do research.
Some reasons discussed include ambitions for a research-heavy specialty program; to make up for deficiencies in other areas; and just to increase one’s skills in the event that their future careers might benefit.
The gang pimp each other on important ‘medical’ knowledge, and Dave fires up the SCP Test Kitchen to create more efficient snacks for busy students.
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Election day is nearly here! Here are the issues you might consider
Disclaimer: We’re don’t intend to suggest you vote in any particular way, though we may discuss our own views. We’re wish to illustrate the connection between medicine and politics, and emphasize: no matter what you believe, vote for yourself and your patients!
M2s Matt, Caroline, and Maddie, and PA2 Ariele, discuss what they’re thinking about with respect to healthcare issues in the US November 2022 mid-term elections.
Mental health, lowering costs, the primary and knock-on effects of abortion bans, and more, are all issues that healthcare voters may be considering.
Short Coats may not all agree on these issues. Instead, what’s important is simply to vote.
Editorial note: one statement made in a previous version of this episode, that the origins of policing started as slave patrols in the south, is not completely accurate. You can read more about that common misconception here. We’ve removed that statement from the episode.
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Physician Associate vs. Assistant: What’s in a name?
Oct 13, 2022
Physician Assistants have been an important partners to MDs for 50 years.
A big crowd is in the studio to talk about physician assistants during National PA Week! PA2 students Ariele and Hannah join M2s Chandler, Hend, and Sophie to talk about the partnership in learning they have at the University of Iowa Carver College of Medicine, as well as their future partnerships with physicians.
The gang explores these roles and more in an improv game of General Hazepital.
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How Studying Changes from Premed to Clnicals
Oct 06, 2022
What you get away with as an undergrad won’t serve you in med school.
M2s Jacob and Maddie, M4 Mason and new co-host PA2 Mark take us through how they changed their study habits from undergrad through the clinical years.
Dave reads an old German folktale about how to become a doctor. Hint: it’s harder today, and involves much less mansplaining, but there’s at least one feature that still exists from antiquity.
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Pancakes and Firehoses: How Med Students Decide Where to Focus
Sep 29, 2022
There’s always something more to do, but should you do it? And how much?
First, we get something important out of the way: Is “Drinking from the Firehose” the best analogy for medical school’s workload, or is “The (Infinite) Stack of Pancakes” more accurate?
M2s Matt and Zay, MD/PhD student Riley and M4 Nathen discuss how they decide how much to do in medical school to become the best doctor they can be.
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How We’re Preparing for Residency Interviews
Sep 22, 2022
What do residency programs really want to hear about?
M4s Nathen and Zack, M3 Rick, and MD/PhD student Riley offer their ideas on prepping for residency interviews and the questions they’ll probably be asked.
Dave offers up an ‘educational’ improv exercise to help them prepare.
Premed listener Emily was told that Family Medicine is a dead end…by her mom who is a Family Medicine doc! That’s not really the case, is it?
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How Climate Change will Change Medicine
Sep 15, 2022
Physicians of the (all-too-near) future will face new challenges
Iowa College of Public Health Professor Peter Thorne visits with M4s Nathen and Zack, M3 Rick, and M2 Chirayu to look at what climate change means for doctors and patients in the future.
As seas rise and weather events become more and more severe, there will be changes to the kinds of conditions and people that physicians will treat.
Garrison writes in to ask us about a med school that just wants 90 credits and an MCAT–is it too good to be true?
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At least, not until you understand these IMPORTANT downsides
Co-hosts Aline, Riley, Jacob, and Tracy discuss why they’d have reconsidered their desire to go to medical school…if only they’d known!
Things like medical ‘hazing,’ the opportunity costs, and the heirarchical nature of medicine are all infuriating at times, and cause a sort of stress that can make students miserable. Forewarned is forearmed!
Plus, listener John and his fiancé will be applying to medical school together. Is that even a good idea, and should they tell their schools about it?
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Not all activities turn out to be useful, although that doesn’t mean they’re not worth it.
M2s Matt, Chirayu, and Jacob, and PA2 Ariel discuss the premed activities they found most helpful (as opposed to required) now that they’re in medical school.
The gang practice their patient interaction skills by delivering some fake bad news, then following that with fake breakthrough treatments.
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No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Why Having a Pet in Med School is a Good Idea
Aug 25, 2022
They may not help us pass our exams…but they definitely have upsides
A common question new medical students have is whether they should get a pet. Will they feel neglected when I have to be at the hospital or the library? Will they be too expensive for a poor med student? Will they be too much work?
The answer to those questions can be answered by realizing that PLENTY of us do own pets, and we all do just fine.
Also, Dave cornered some frightened-looking M1s during orientation for some people-on-the-street interviews. Riley, Mao, Madi and Matt discuss their answers.
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No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Monkeypox: a National Health Emergency
Aug 18, 2022
Have we learned anything from HIV or COVID?
M4 Nathen, M2s Noah and Shana, and MD/PhD student Aline discuss the new epidemic of “Monkeypox,” and try to discern if our country has learned anything about how to respond to emerging diseases.
Dave asks his co-hosts to celebrate an incoming class of med students by PIMPing each other…while wearing mouth spreaders.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Race Is Everywhere In Medicine–Meet A Student Trying To Change That
Aug 12, 2022
Is race, a social construct, appropriately used to make medical decisions?
Race is commonly spoken of in medicine as a risk factor for diseases. It has even found its way into the equations that help doctors assess biological function.
But is race–commonly acknowledged these days as a social construct and not a biological one–really a valid way to factor in the differences between one patient and another? M3 Vijay and other students are helping lead the charge to re-assess these ideas.
Also, MD/PHD students Aline, Levi, and Riley help listener Michelina decide what to do about her hair during interviews…and debate whether aspiring docs should even be worried about their physical look when applying.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Recess Rehash: The Question All Future Applicants should Ask: “What Will Help Me Grow?”
Aug 04, 2022
Growth requires embracing unfamiliar and even scary situations.
TL;DR
Listener Riley wants some suggestions on experiences that will help him grow while he pursues his path to medicine.
We discuss some comments from YouTube on female urologists and male patients.
That leads to a discussion on why hospitals default to environments for adult patients which are downright hostile.
This week we start with a listener question. Riley’s about to apply to medical school after a winding path from high school dropout to welder to biochemist. He’s wondering if we can give him advice on activities that will help him to grow. Such a great way to put that question, and M4 Emma Barr, M3 Maddie Wahlen, M4 Abby Fyfe, and new co-host Jacob Hansen are on hand to offer some ideas.
Also, we discuss some comments we got on a previous episode’s YouTube video featuring urologist and men’s health specialist Amy Pearlman on the fear and shame some men feel when they think about seeing a female urologist. For instance: why do doctors make their patients wait for them surrounded by gross anatomy models and posters???
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Recess Rehash: Why Med Learners are Asked to “Reflect,” And What Does It Even Mean?
Jul 28, 2022
How students should think about reflection when the word isn’t always well-defined.
[We’re on a break! But we’ll be back with a new episode on August 11, 2022. Enjoy this re-run!]
TL;DR
Whether it’s a class assignment, a personal statement, or a scholarship essay, students are often commanded to reflect on their experiences.
Reflection is can be a useful part of understanding what you are becoming. But what that means and how to do it are frequently not well defined.
Our M4 co-hosts discuss whether their fears about the residency application process were well-founded or just wheel spinning.
Listener Empirica Soberface (not her real name) called in to ask us about reflection–something medical learners are often asked to do during their education–saying that it doesn’t come naturally to her. So Dave invited Cate Dicharry, the director of the Writing and Humanities Program here at the Carver College of Medicine, to come on and give us her thoughts on this common assignment. M4s Emma Barr and Madeline Cusimano, M3 Ananya Munjal, and MD/PhD student Riley Behan-Bush are on hand to supply some of their ideas on how best to process what it is they’ve been becoming.
Emma and Madeline also discuss the fears they had about interviewing for their future residency jobs, the anxiety that many senior medical students are feeling right now, and whether their fears were realized or proven to be wheel-spinning.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Recess Rehash: Med Schools Hate When Students Have Jobs. Some People Take the Risk Anyway.
Jul 21, 2022
Perhaps no school would recommend working during med school, but plenty of people do it.
[We’re on a break! But we’ll be back with a new episode on August 11, 2022. Enjoy this re-run!]
TL;DR
Sometimes, you just don’t want to take that extra loan money. One option: a part time job.
But that is risky–the time you devote to that job could have been spent on studying, and perhaps could decrease your chances at those competitive residency programs.
But there are medical students who make the choice to work, and some jobs might even help your chances.
Eliza wrote to us at theshortcoats@gmail.com because, as an older, married medical student with a young child in an expensive city, she wondered what our thoughts were on students who work during medical school. We invited her on the show so M3 Nathen Spitz, M4s Abby Fyfe and Nick Lind, and M1 Grant Stalker could find out more about her choice to work as a therapeutic yoga teacher, and discuss some of the equity issues surrounding work during medical school. And Nathen offers some ideas about paying jobs that can actually be a benefit to medical students in their academic lives.
We also discuss the Biden administration’s new mental health-focused initiatives, especially those focused on healthcare workers, as outlined in the president’s state of the union address.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Social Media: Med Ed Miracle, or Minefield?
Jul 14, 2022
We all know the answer: a lot of both.
MD/PhD students Michelle and Aline, PA2 Alice, and M2 Jacob discuss the pros and cons of their use of social media, including…
…who the heck gets to decide what is “professional,” and does anyone even know what that means?
Listener Alyssa joins the crew to discuss her question: how can she discuss the challenges she experienced during undergrad without sounding whiney (even if her challenges would sure have made Dave whine a bit).
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
SCOTUS Changed Med Ed As We Know It with Dr. Abby hardy-Fairbanks
Jul 07, 2022
CONTENT WARNING: We’re discussing a controversial subject. The opinions expressed are not those of the University of Iowa or any other institution. Listener discretion is advised.
We try to predict the future of medical training in light of the fall of Roe V. Wade
Dr. Abby Hardy Fairbanks, medical director of Iowa City’s Emma Goldman Clinic joins co-hosts MSTP students Madi and Riley, and M2s Mao and Tyler to help us understand how the recent SCOTUS decision striking down abortion as a federally protected right will affect their training.
The changes may extend beyond OB-Gyn training to affect other specialties…as well as the trust that confidentiality brings to the doctor-patient relationship.
Also, Dr. Hardy-Fairbanks talks about the advocacy roles physicians can take on, from state-house lobbying to voting to just being there for their patients.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Does a Career in Medicine Make Financial Sense?
Jun 30, 2022
COVID changed how much docs are paid.
Chirayu (M2), Maddie (M2), Tracy (M2) and new co-host Levi (MSTP) discuss the financial changes that doctors experienced after COVID, and whether a career in medicine makes as much financial sense as it once did.
MIT scientists use locust cyborgs to find cancer cells.
We visit with two premeds–Deeraj and Daniel–who are proving that competing with classmates is a losing strategy for studying medicine.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Yes, you will (did) work hard to get your MD, but others have doctorates, too. Lighten up.
Noah (M2), Ariele (PA2), Nicole (M2), and Miranda (MSTP) discuss the impulse many MDs and MDs-to-be have to gatekeep the word “doctor” when advanced practice providers use it.
PhDs, DNPs, AuDs and many more also have doctorates. Instead of worrying about who worked harder to get it, better perhaps to support each other and not worry about who deserves to call themselves a doctor.
The American Board of Radiology did something crazy–they told programs their trainees will get a bunch of leave for birthing and non-birthing parents to care for their newborns.
Noah and Ariele try the third hand experiment. Tik Tok science for the win? Or is it social pseudoscience?
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Med Student Life: Evals, Boards, and Carmel Corn Bribery
Jun 09, 2022
Med student’s lives are much like everyone else’s. Except for the constant critique and testing.
Morgan (M3), Eric (M3), Aline (MSTP), and Abby (graduate!) discuss their experiences being evaluated in medical school.
Abby offers her big tips for new MDs to get the best deal on internet service (apply for Medicaid and wait for them to give you candy).
A doc goes to jail for his COVID cure kits.
We practice giving sincere compliments to each other while trying to make the other person laugh.
Can the co-hosts reassure a freaked out Redditor who abuses Imodium?
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Hacks to Build Patient Rapport In An Instant
May 26, 2022
How medical students learn to start off patient interactions on the right foot
Short Coat Listener Josh wrote in to share some hacks he uses to get grumpy patients on his side the moment he walks into the exam room.
Co-hosts Jessica, Aline, Hannah, and Riley share their own techniques on managing those first few seconds of the patient visit.
Plus, many tangents along those lines, such as when not to use ‘quips’ and humor with patients and bosses.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
What Is the First Year of Medical School Like?
May 19, 2022
As the end of their first year in medical school approaches, M1s summarize their experience
Dave asks his co-hosts to discuss the ups and downs of their first year, which some will argue is the hardest.
What were their social lives like? How much leisure time do they get? What about sleep?
Dave loves a good case study, so he subjects the crew to some to see if they can guess the patients’ conditions.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
The Power of Discomfort in Learning Medicine
May 12, 2022
If you don’t like what you’re learning, look even closer.
TL;DR
Dave asks his co-hosts to think about the role of discomfort in learning. It’s a signal that you need to pay very close attention, both to the topic and to why you feel that way.
Listener Michelina, an undergrad mom with a full-time job, asks if her COVID-affected grades mean she should extend her time in college to seek a toxicology degree or just stick with biology.
The discussion on working during medical school continues, as Michelina wonders if she can work full time while she balances motherhood and med school.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Adding a PHD: Choosing the Right Option for YOu
May 05, 2022
Should you do a combined MD/PhD, an Medical Scientist Training Program, or get them one-at-a-time?
TL;DR
There are at least three ways an aspiring MD/PhD can add those last three letter to their name, but why choose one way over another?
To celebrate our CCOM Art Show, the crew makes some art for Dave to admire (See them for yourselves on our Instagram.
The co-hosts answer Dave’s probing questions as he tries to get to know them even better.
We Want to Hear From You: YOUR VOICE MATTERS!
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
No matter where you fall on any spectrum, we want your thoughts on our show. Do you agree or disagree with something we said today? Did you hear something really helpful? Are we delivering a podcast you want to keep listening to? We’ll be sure your ideas are heard by all–leave a message at 347-SHORTCT (347-746-7828) and we’ll put your message in a future episode (use *67 to be an “Unknown caller”).
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you! We want to know more about you: Take the Listener Survey
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Lessons from the Wards: what Future Residents Need to Know (Ft. Dr. Abbey hardy-Fairbanks)
Apr 14, 2022
TL;DR
Abbey Hardy-Fairbanks is an OB/Gyn who often works with expectant moms who use drugs.
Future resident MDs: this episode features some of the many things she’s learned about meeting patients where they are, practicing medicine without judgement, and understanding what she and her clients can and cannot accomplish in the moment.
Approaching patients with an open heart from the first moment, even when their lives are outside society’s mainstream or approval, can mean the difference between losing them for good and them coming back to see anyone for more help.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you! We want to know more about you: Take the Listener Survey
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Today’s Healthcare Careers are More Varied Than Ever. Explore Them Before You Risk Med School
Apr 07, 2022
Schools want to know that you’ve looked at other careers, otherwise they won’t take a chance on you.
TL;DR
Listener Preston is weighing PharmD or MD school. How can he choose, and how his process of choosing make schools feel better about him?
Brylee didn’t get into med school this time around, is facing a tight turnaround for the next application season, and she hasn’t even got a compelling gap year job lined up yet. Is she risking another rejection by rushing things?
M4 Mackenzie Walhof and M1s Happy Kumar, Matt Engelken, and Jacob Hansen try to convey their passion for random, made-up gap year. Can they convince a skeptical interviewer?
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you! We want to know more about you: Take the Listener Survey
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Criminal Charges for Medical Mistakes: A Bad Idea?
Mar 31, 2022
Medical errors are an unfortunate and sometimes tragic fact of life. Jailing nurses without addressing root causes compounds the tragedy
Nurse RaDonda Vaught faces jail time for an error that killed her patient, and the crew discusses what they learn and know about dealing with medical errors.
While Vaught (convicted later on the day we recorded this episode) made some pretty terrible errors that justifiably ended her career, her employer bears responsibility, too…but so far is getting off without meaningful consequence.
Threatening jail for nurses who make medical errors isn’t going to help attract people to the profession, especially when their employers create conditions that lead to errors.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you! We want to know more about you: Take the Listener Survey
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Ableism in Medicine Often Forces Learners to Advocate For Themselves
Mar 24, 2022
We live in a world that still believes the disabled are a danger to patient safety
TL;DR
An injury during medical school or residency can temporarily or permanently alter one’s career prospects and trajectory.
Even serious disabilities don’t have to be career-enders. But in many cases, it’s up to the injured to counter the ableism that still exists in medicine.
What unionizing residents might accomplish, and why it might be needed even in today’s graduate medical education paradigm.
Bluebell (not her real name) called The Short Coat Listener Line as she is recovering from an injury; her injury isn’t serious, but it got her thinking–in what ways would an injury, temporary or permanent, alter a medical student’s career trajectory? M3s Brandon Bacalzo and Nathen Spitz, M2 Lola Lozano, and M1 Noah Wick discuss what has happened to people they know who’ve faced this situation, some ideas on protecting their livelihoods from the effects of a permanent disability, and how ableism may continue to exist in medicine and medical education.
The crew also offers some thoughts following Match Day 2022, Brandon’s newfound responsibilities as a father, and the possibilities of unionizing residents.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you! We want to know more about you: Take the Listener Survey
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Med Schools Hate When Students Have Jobs. Some People Take the Risk Anyway.
Mar 17, 2022
Perhaps no school would recommend working during med school, but plenty of people do it.
TL;DR
Sometimes, you just don’t want to take that extra loan money. One option: a part time job.
But that is risky–the time you devote to that job could have been spent on studying, and perhaps could decrease your chances at those competitive residency programs.
But there are medical students who make the choice to work, and some jobs might even help your chances.
Eliza wrote to us at theshortcoats@gmail.com because, as an older, married medical student with a young child in an expensive city, she wondered what our thoughts were on students who work during medical school. We invited her on the show so M3 Nathen Spitz, M4s Abby Fyfe and Nick Lind, and M1 Grant Stalker could find out more about her choice to work as a therapeutic yoga teacher, and discuss some of the equity issues surrounding work during medical school. And Nathen offers some ideas about paying jobs that can actually be a benefit to medical students in their academic lives.
We also discuss the Biden administration’s new mental health-focused initiatives, especially those focused on healthcare workers, as outlined in the president’s state of the union address.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Rushing to Med School means Missed Opportunities (RECESS REHASH)
Mar 10, 2022
The gods of podcasting smote our recording session last week, but at least we can enjoy this rerun. Luckily, it’s a good one!
Taking your time may actually be better for your career than rushing through it
TL;DR
Rushing to med school may be a good idea, but there is a danger of missing experiences that make you a better student and a better doctor. But if you’re going to do it…go hard.
Nutrition is well covered in the med school curriculum, but there’s a lot we don’t understand.
Falling off a tall stack of milk crates on purpose has questionable health benefits.
Listener (and graduating high-school senior) Stephanie called 347-SHORTCT to ask about her plans to finish undergrad in 2 years and start med school at 19. While her actual question was how she could get everything done, our question was what would she miss out on that might inform and educate her about her medicine dreams? MD/PhD students Miranda Schene and Riley Behan, M2 Eric Boeshart, and M1 Zach Shepard discuss the cons.
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Sociaizing and Studying: How do Med Students Do It?
Mar 03, 2022
Med students are usually intentional about everything, even the balance between social and school
TL;DR
The M4s are picking their favorite residency programs in the hopes that they love the next phase of their training. We discuss the factors they’re weighing now that interviews are done.
A listener about to start med school wants to know how students study, and how they also have social lives when studying is so intense.
Listener Sunrise Warghost called the Short Coat Listener Line (347-SHORTCT) because she’ll start school in the fall, and is wondering about the study techniques and mental habits medical students use to crush it in medical school. M4s Emma Bar, NIck Lind, and Madeline Cusimano, and M3 Nathen Spitz help with the tips and tricks they’ve discovered. And they also offer their methods for maintaining a social life as well, both within and outside the cloistered world of medical school.
But first, a discussion from the M4s on the factors they’re weighing as they nail down which residency programs they would like to train at next year, because like everything else in their lives, intentionality is key.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
The Trainees Who Don’t Fit the Med Ed Mission
Feb 24, 2022
Should medical education make a larger space for trainees who don’t want to see patients?
TL;DR
Medical schools’ mission is to create doctors that treat patients. In that context, the options provided for trainees who don’t see that as their own mission may be limited.
However, those options do exist–should schools acknowledge them? Should schools promote those options to their students?
Listener Nicole asks what prerequisites she can take at a community college, if any.
Even during medical school, Alison Yarp, MD, felt as though her personal career goals didn’t reflect those of the school she intended–she did not want to see patients and practice individual medicine! But she was in med school already. She wanted to be in medicine, but given how much blood, sweat, and tears she’d already spent on that, how could she change directions? What would she even change directions toward? Eventually, she settled on psychiatry…and hoped it would be right for her.
Following her intern year, Dr. Yarp resigned from her psychiatry residency and seek a new path. It was then that she decided to build MARCo Community, a private and exclusive social network for trainees of any level who don’t feel like they fit with the typical medical education narrative.
Dr. Yarp got lucky this past year. She found a new specialty that fit her goals nicely, and sought a new match in a residency she hadn’t been aware of during medical school–preventive medicine. M1s Matt Engelken, Tracy Chen, Grant Stalker, and Alec Hanson talked with her about the difficulties of finding a career in medicine when the path fully acknowledged by medical education is narrower than what actually exists.
Also, can Listener Nicole do any of her prerequisites for medical school at a community college?
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Low MCAT Ruins Listener’s Med School Plans. Or Does It?
Feb 17, 2022
Med schools denied this listener’s application, so he worries his low-and-not-improving MCAT will mean he’ll have to settle for a non-research career
TL;DR
“Cuddles” worries that he can’t be a research MD if he doesn’t get into an allopathic med school due to his low MCAT. But is that really the problem?
Can osteopaths be academic (research) physicians?
Dave gives his co-hosts a pop quiz on old time remedies after learning chimps may be practicing folk medicine.
Listener “Cuddles” seems to be panicking after he didn’t get in to any of the medical schools he applied to. He’s worried that if he can’t get in to an MD school attached to an academic health center he won’t be able to fulfill his dream of doing medical research. He fears he might have to “settle” for a DO school to get in anywhere with his low MCAT score. M1s Matt Engelken, Noah Wick, Mallory Kallish, and M4 Nick Lind try to talk Cuddles down from his panicky state.
Dave also wants to take these fancy physicians down a peg after reading in the New York Times that chimps have been found practicing folk medicine. Who’s to say that they won’t develop vaccines and MRI machines in the future, and topple doctors from their lofty place atop the medical heap? So Dave makes them take a pop quiz on folk medicine.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Pre-med Advisors Don’t Know Everything: Recovering after Dismissal
Feb 10, 2022
Don’t let negative feedback from an advisor cause you to self-scuttle your med school dreams!
TL;DR
Listener Valerie’s pre-med advisor still haunts her years later, despite a stellar recovery from academic disaster.
We got hammered by anti-maskers and anti-vaxxers on our Instagram. Will our response get the same result?
The co-hosts and Dave celebrate the upcoming Valentines Day observance–can we guess what our SOs and parents think of us, Newlywed Game style?
Listener Valerie was dismissed from college long ago, and was told by her pre-med advisor as a result she’d never get into a medical school. Years later, she’s recovered nicely, with great grades and a Master’s degree, as well as valuable work experience; but her advisor’s statement has prevented her from pursuing the med school path. How should she address the disaster now that she’s ready to apply? Who should people listen to if not pre-med advisor’s? Is it hopeless? M1 Matt Engelken, M3 Ananya Munjal, M3 Nathen Spitz, and M4 Emma Barr have good news for Valerie.
And with Valentines Day coming up, Dave asked his co-hosts’ family and friends to send in answers to questions about them–some of the answers proved surprising!
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
MUSICIANS TAKE A STAND ON SPOTIFY/ROGAN. WILL that FIGHT HEALTH MISINFO?
Feb 03, 2022
Standing up against health misinformation is great, but will it help people understand?
TL;DR
Folk rock god Neil Young and others have removed their music from Spotify, which hosts Joe Rogan’s controversial podcast over his COVID and vaccine discussions with deniers.
Does that actually accomplish anything, or is it too late to win over the hesitant?
We play Kiss, Marry, Kill: Medical Specialties Edition.
Some very famous musicians have told their labels to pull their catalogs from Spotify over it’s hosting of Joe Rogan’s podcast, which often includes discussions with vaccine and COVID deniers. This has renewed the discussion over Internet media’s role in shaping public discourse on important life-and-death topics. But M2 Eric Boeshart, M1 Mallory Kallish, M3 Ananya Munjal, and MD/PhD student Riley Behan-Bush aren’t convinced that it’ll persuade many to adopt a more expert-influenced approach to their health. (Note: we discussed this prior to Rogan’s response, in which he promised to include more experts on his show).
The crew also plays a game of Kiss, Marry, Kill: Medical Specialties edition.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Why Med Learners are Asked to “Reflect,” And What Does It Even Mean?
Jan 27, 2022
How students should think about reflection when the word isn’t always well-defined.
TL;DR
Whether it’s a class assignment, a personal statement, or a scholarship essay, students are often commanded to reflect on their experiences.
Reflection is can be a useful part of understanding what you are becoming. But what that means and how to do it are frequently not well defined.
Our M4 co-hosts discuss whether their fears about the residency application process were well-founded or just wheel spinning.
Listener Empirica Soberface (not her real name) called in to ask us about reflection–something medical learners are often asked to do during their education–saying that it doesn’t come naturally to her. So Dave invited Cate Dicharry, the director of the Writing and Humanities Program here at the Carver College of Medicine, to come on and give us her thoughts on this common assignment. M4s Emma Barr and Madeline Cusimano, M3 Ananya Munjal, and MD/PhD student Riley Behan-Bush are on hand to supply some of their ideas on how best to process what it is they’ve been becoming.
Emma and Madeline also discuss the fears they had about interviewing for their future residency jobs, the anxiety that many senior medical students are feeling right now, and whether their fears were realized or proven to be wheel-spinning.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
The Question All Future Applicants should Ask: “What Will Help Me Grow?”
Jan 20, 2022
Growth requires embracing unfamiliar and even scary situations.
TL;DR
Listener Riley wants some suggestions on experiences that will help him grow while he pursues his path to medicine.
We discuss some comments from YouTube on female urologists and male patients.
That leads to a discussion on why hospitals default to environments for adult patients which are downright hostile.
This week we start with a listener question. Riley’s about to apply to medical school after a winding path from high school dropout to welder to biochemist. He’s wondering if we can give him advice on activities that will help him to grow. Such a great way to put that question, and M4 Emma Barr, M3 Maddie Wahlen, M4 Abby Fyfe, and new co-host Jacob Hansen are on hand to offer some ideas.
Also, we discuss some comments we got on a previous episode’s YouTube video featuring urologist and men’s health specialist Amy Pearlman on the fear and shame some men feel when they think about seeing a female urologist. For instance: why do doctors make their patients wait for them surrounded by gross anatomy models and posters???
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Overcoming Your Undergrad Apathy Now that You’re Applying to Medical School
Jan 13, 2022
Good news: medical schools don’t just want perfect people!
TL;DR
If your undergraduate studies in a different field lacked a certain enthusiasm but you’ve now decided to pursue medicine, it can be difficult to know where you’ll stand with admissions committees.
Fortunately, adcomms don’t just look for perfect grades and unwavering and early certainty from med school candidates on their path to medicine.
We discuss a great way to fill a hole in what your school teaches–create a course on the subject!
Listener Abby is thinking about taking the prereqs for medical school, but worries that her trajectory thus far isn’t distinguished enough. Is she setting herself up for the poor house and failure? Hear the words of encouragement and wisdom we have for Abby, featuring MD/PhD student Aline Sandouk, M4 Madeline Cusimano, M4 Emma Barr, and M4 Abby Fyfe.
We also discuss the course on Sexual Violence that Aline and her team of enthusiastic partners developed and delivered this past fall to medical students interested in learning the signs of sexual assault and the roles that students and residents can play in getting help for victims.
And we compose the voicemail greeting you’ll hear if you call our SCP Listener Line at 347-SHORTCT, and we discuss Aline’s impending return to medical school as she looks forward to completing her PhD.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
The Coming Physician Exodus: Why Doctors May Leave the Profession Soon (Recess Rehash)
Jan 06, 2022
COVID taught many employees what their employees think of them. Doctors are no different.
TL;DR
Most people don’t see themselves as partners in success, but as hired hands. Doctors are employees, too, and have similar issues with their employers!
30% of administrators reported losing physicians during the pandemic. Either an exit from healthcare or a mass shift of physicians from low-engagement jobs to higher engagement positions may have already begun.
We discuss what a great job for a doctor might look like.
We’ll be back next week with a new episode. Meanwhile, as COVID continues to wreak havoc in healthcare, it seems like a good time to revisit this topic. Enjoy.
In this episode future physicians M2 Nicole Hines, and MD/PhD students Miranda Schene, Aline Sandouk and newcomer Riley Behan are on hand to talk about “employee engagement,” the idea that workers–and physicians are workers, remember–feel best utilized and appreciated when they are partners rather than cogs in the success of their employers.
And while many physicians have experienced job dissatisfaction and burnout, COVID seems to have taught some docs that they no longer have to put up with that. As employers of all kinds struggle to bring disengaged workers back to their dissatisfying, low-paying jobs, a white paper from a physician recruiter ominously suggests that doctors are also re-thinking their work as employees.
With that in mind, Dave asks his co-hosts what, for them, might be the features of a job that they could feel engaged with, like a partner in success?
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Recess Rehash: When Life Is Getting In the Way of Med School: the Value of the Tactical Retreat.
Dec 30, 2021
Save Your Resources to Fight Another Day
TL;DR
Medical school is all-consuming, but sometimes you need to take time to deal with the slings and arrows of life.
Don’t be afraid that you’ll jeopardize your career by taking a leave during medical school. Better to do it before your situation causes harm to your test scores or grades.
A Brown University study finds that schools are failing in their diversity goals for admitting URMs.
We’re on a holiday break, but we’ll be back next week. Until then, enjoy this rerun.
Poking around on Reddit’s r/medschool, Dave found a rather desperate message from an M3 who’s life is collapsing around him–death, marriage troubles, family illnesses, and all at the same time. so much so that Dave fears their progress might suffer. Is it time for what a military commander might call a “tactical retreat?” Note: Dave isn’t really sure of the technical definition of a tactical retreat, but let’s just say it’s about stepping back and conserving your resources until the situation becomes more favorable to your goals. It’s a metaphor, go with it.
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Academic vs. Community MDs: Who Has It Better? Ft. Santa Claus
Dec 23, 2021
Among the many choices med students make is between community medicine and academic medicine.
TL;DR
Doctors who practice community medicine make more than academic physicians (sometimes lots more).
As it often does, the question of which to choose depends on which aspect of each you can live without.
The co-hosts also visit with Santa, because Dave’s been naughty, to answer pop quiz questions on holiday crimes.
Santa Claus is on hand for this episode to help listener Josh with his dilemma: which life should Josh choose, that of a community physician or an academic physician? As M4 Emma Barr, M1 Matt Engelken, MD/PhD student Aline Sandouk, and M4 Madeline Cusimano see it, there’s lots to consider. For instance, do you want to teach and do research? Do you want to make a lot of money? What kind of patient population do you want to work with?
Plus, Santa gives the co-hosts a pop quiz on weird holiday crimes.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Finding Meaningful Research Opportunities
Dec 16, 2021
You can ‘do’ research in med school or undergrad, but no one’s going to just give you the opportunity
TL;DR
If you want to be an author on a publication, you’ve got to be open with your lab about your goals.
Go into research with the aim of improving your skills, and know exactly what skills you want to work on.
Some kinds of research are easier to do and get published in medical school.
“Friederick” (not his real name) wanted to know more about how to get good research positions in undergrad and medical school. But what does ‘good’ mean in that context? MD/PhD students Miranda Schene and Riley Behan, M1 Grant Stalker, and M4 Emma Barr have thoughts on how to look for an opportunity to publish, how best to understand the job of being an research assistant, and how to approach the principle investigator with your goals.
Riley discusses her impending nuptuals, and how she’s been thinking about a COVID wedding in late 2021, and the gang practices delivering bad news–diseases that Dave generated on some website–with Emma as the instructor.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Med School App Mistakes to Crush Under Your Feet Like Worms (Recess Rehash)
Dec 09, 2021
[Our Thanksgiving break involuntarily continues because a couple co-hosts were out sick on recording day. Rude. Anyway, enjoy this rerun!]
Screw these up, and you may not get in!
TL;DR
Our expert looks at the mistakes that can keep you from landing your spot in med school
Give the admissions committee what it needs to assure them you want this more than anything, and that you’ve done your homework.
When is the right time to apply? When YOU are ready. Don’t rush it, because whether you’re successful or not in finishing med school, a bad decision will affect you for many, many years.
Avoid these five med school mistakes!
You’ve got the grades, you’ve got the activities, and you’ve got the drive. You’re ready to apply to med school, right? Not if you haven’t squashed these critical errors in your application. Get these wrong, and you’ll be applying again next year. Get them right, and they can even turn a mediocre applicant into a desirable one.
Our Admissions and Enrollment Coordinator Rachel Ahearn joins MD/PhD students Aline Sandouk and Riley Behan, and M2s Rick Gardner and Sarah Costello to help you smash these problems under your heel.
Also, Rachel helps us answer listener Morgan’s question about post-bacc programs and damage control.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Recess Rehash: Life Hacks for Med Students
Dec 02, 2021
Due to the Thanksgiving Holiday, we weren’t in the studio to record a new show last week. Instead, enjoy this rerun!
Med school life hacks are all about maximizing efficiency, minimizing friction.
TL;DR
Eliminate unnecessary friction to the completion of a task
Paying others to do other life tasks can be helpful
Saying no is as important as maximizing efficiency.
Today we explore the things that med students do to maximize their efficiency. These are the small steps they take to eliminate friction to completing chores, focusing attention where it’s needed instead of where your brain wants it to be, and eliminating those tasks that just aren’t that important to them. M4 Mackenzie Walhof, MD/PhD student Aline Sandouk, M2 Nicole Hines, and M2 AJ Chowdhury explore with Dave their own personal life hacks.
Also, Dave ran famous doctors’ photos multiple times through an app that makes caricatures until they were no longer recognizable, then made videos of the progression. How fast can the crew identify them when the video is reversed? Play along at home on our Instagram.
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
BEST JOBS FOR A FUTURE MD/PHD STUDENT, and Turkey Day Shenannigans
Nov 25, 2021
Any job can be a good premed job, but what about for the future physician scientist?
TL;DR
Happy Thanksgiving!
We discuss the MD/PhD life, and the jobs that will prepare a hopeful MD/PhD student while also giving the admissions committees something to love.
We diss Thanksgiving while still loving it, including a special Turkey Day pop quiz.
Happy Thanksgiving! Now, settle down, we don’t mean to poop on anyone’s holiday traditions, but we are going to make fun of Thanksgiving and acknowledge it’s teensy little problems. Also, MD/PhD student Riley Behan, M1s Noah Wick and Matt Engelken, and PA1 Ethan Ksiazek are also going to help listener Stephanie with her questions about the MD/PhD life, and what kinds of pre-med jobs will be helpful to prepare her. And Dave delivers a pop quiz on Thanksgiving history. Then we’re going to do what Americans do and fill ourselves with carbs and then wish we hadn’t to celebrate.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Dr. Bruce Campbell, and a Fullness of Uncertain Significance
Nov 18, 2021
A cancer surgeon’s stories offer lessons of humility and grace
TL;DR
Medicine is filled with both the momentous and the prosaic. Yet every interaction is a chance to process and understand the impact one person can both have and be subject to.
Dr. Campbell suggests students start journaling their experiences early. Not only might this lead to a lovely book of essays near the end of a career, but it’s also a great tool to track the fleeting experiences that will much sooner make a great personal statement!
In this episode, M2s Nicole Hines, AJ Chowdhury, Sarah Costello and M1 Zach Shepard visit with the author of a new book,A Fullness of Uncertain Significance: Stories of Surgery, Clarity, & Grace.Dr. Bruce Campbell is also a head and neck cancer surgeon at the Medical College of Wisconsin. The book is a series of short vignettes from Dr. Campbell’s life in medicine from as far back as his first experiences as a nursing assistant in 1973. A blend of the momentous and prosaic, they offer the medical learner a glimpse of what a veteran doctor has seen, and the conclusions he’s drawn from his privileged window into the lives of the people he’s met over nearly 50 years.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Electronic residency Application Service Glitching…Again?
Nov 11, 2021
More tales from Residency Interviews
TL;DR
Puzzled by the interviewer’s question? You can fumble around with the answer, or answer a question that wasn’t asked.
Did the Electronic Residency Application Service screw some applicants (again)?
We get to know this week’s cohosts using interview questions they might actually enjoy answering.
This episode is sponsored by Panacea Financial, a division of Primis, Member FDIC. See how they are helping med students and doctors with better banking built just for them at https://panaceafinancial.com/.
We’re not going to lie: amid reports that ERAS is glitching yet again, this week’s episode is kind of a bitch fest. If you want to hear about the problems associated with medical education, this is the episode for you. And hey, if you thought that med school was hard simply because there’s a lot of studying, well, this ep will broaden your horizons a bit on that front.
To take the curse off all that crankiness, Dave decided to get to know his co-hosts with some questions that he recommends interviewers ask instead of “What are your strengths and weaknesses?”
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How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
A question Dave found on reddit inspired this week’s topic: is there any program or school that is “out of your league?”
Co-hosts recap their recent residency interview experiences.
We practice answering absurd residency interview questions.
Today’s episode is sponsored by Panacea Financial, a division of Primis, Member FDIC. Check out their PRN Personal Loans to help cover board exams or application costs, with decisions in as little as 24 hours and great interest rates!
As usual, Dave was casting about for something to talk about on the show when he stumbled across a question by reddit user roboticnephrotomy who is worried about an ideal residency program being “out of his league.” M4s Nick Lind and Emma Barr, M1 Zach Shepard, and MD/PhD student Riley Behan explain why this is nonsense.
Nick and Emma discuss their first residency interviews, and Dave forces the whole crew to consider some of the more…well, ridiculous interview questions they might run across now or later in life.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
We discuss the many uses (real or potential) of capsaicin as we taste hot sauces from some random multipack co-host AJ had lying around.
The co-hosts fight each other with words in a game of Megabattle.
Warning: cartoonish violence is described. If you don’t like the thought of being stabbed by flaming antlers, you might want to skip this one.
This episode is sponsored by Enso Rings, makers of soft, safe, attractive silicone rings. Listeners get 10% off rings at EnsoRings.com using promo code SHORT!
M2s AJ Chowdhury, Smrithi Mani, Alex Belzer and Alex Choi take a break from serious discussion this week because Dave’s busy running a conference to even do his usually-minimal level of prep for the show. Fortunately, AJ had a box of various hot sauces lying around, so we ate them while we discussed facts about capsaicin, the chemical contained by chili peppers responsible for that lovely burning sensation we crave.
And, in an attempt to justify to himself that he’s an actual educator, he forces the crew to practice their debate skills by playing Megabattle–who wins in ridiculous battles of cartoon-like violence? They’ll have to convince each other of the winner!
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Are there parallels between medicine and Squid Game?
TL;DR
The experience of job hunting for a residency position is unlike any other.
It’s way easier to donate bone marrow than many think.
Dave stuffs the episode with Squid Game references in the hopes that various algorithms love us.
This episode is sponsored by Enso Rings, makers of soft, safe, attractive silicone rings. Listeners get 10% off rings at EnsoRings.com using promo code SHORT!
MD/PhD student Aline Sandouk, M1 Noah Wick, and M4s Madeline Cusimano and Abby Fyfe have their souls crushed this week by Dave’s suggestion that the Netflix smash hit Squid Game has some parallels with medicine and medical education. See, Dave read a listicle by Rebecca Richardson in McSweeny’s comparing the features of the game to academic job-hunting, and it seemed a little…familiar.
But first, the crew takes a look at recent developments in Madeline’s and Abby’s own job hunt, and we learn about bone marrow donation as that’s also something Madeline’s preparing for.
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How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
A relatively new partner in medicine, the Physician Assistant has become vital to team-based healthcare
TL;DR
The Physician Assistant can do most things an MD can do, aside from prescribing certain kinds drugs, and they don’t usually practice independently.
Iowa’s interesting because PA students train with MD students during their didactics. This close contact means that trust is established early between the two professions.
PAs must amass so many hours of clinical activity before they enter school that they start with MUCH more experience than MDs usually do.
Today’s episode is sponsored by Panacea Financial, a division of Primis, Member FDIC. Check out their PRN Personal Loans to help cover board exams or application costs, with decisions in as little as 24 hours and great interest rates!
It’s PA Week across this great land, and to celebrate we’ve got physician assistant students on the mic. PA2s Liz Patton and Chris Ball join M2s Rick Gardner and Brianna Wright to talk about their relatively young profession. Why did they choose to pursue a career as a physician assistant? What do PAs actually do, and how is it different from the jobs of other healthcare pros? What’s the training like? Let’s dive in!
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
The Obscure Document Residency Programs Use to Decide If You’re Worthy
Oct 07, 2021
The Medical Student Performance Evaluation (or dean’s letter) will be sent to all your potential employers. Let’s talk about what’s in it!
TL;DR
You may have heard of the dean’s letter. It’s sent to all residency programs, one of the things they’ll use to choose who to invite for an interview. But do you know what’s in it…and that it’s creation begins on your first day of med school?
YouTube announces blanket ban on vaccine misinformation, and axes the biggest misinformation peddlers.
Can The Short Coats pass the 2021 IgNobel Prize Winners Quiz?
Today’s episode is sponsored by Panacea Financial, a division of Primis, Member FDIC. Check out their PRN Personal Loans to help cover board exams or application costs, with decisions in as little as 24 hours and great interest rates!
To Dave, it sometimes feels like the process of medical education is as complex and opaque as the actual medical knowledge it works to impart to students. In this elaborate system, absolute transparency is difficult to achieve, but there’s one thing Dave thinks students should keep in the backs of their heads from day one: the medical student performance evaluation (MSPE, or ‘dean’s letter’). That’s because this document will be sent to all their future employers, including their residency programs. And those programs will use it (and other data applicants and colleges supply) to decide whether to invite you for an interview. Yet Dave has the impression that many don’t even know what’s in this important document–which includes comments from residents and attendings on their personal qualities and performance–until just before they begin to apply for residency! That’s a problem for some students who, upon reading it for the first time, find that there’s a pattern of behavior that they should have addressed long ago. Dave discusses what all students need to know about this important document.
Also, the 2021 IgNobel Prizes for improbable research have been awarded; YouTube bans all vaccine misinformation and the peddlers of bogus vax claims; and California begins using a controversial–but effective!–technique to help people who use drugs kick the habit: paying them to stay sober.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Married Applicants: What Do Schools Think?
Sep 30, 2021
Applying to med school together might be easier than couples think
TL;DR
Married couples applying to a school together are really a bonus for schools, all other factors being equal.
We discuss Niki Minaj’s cousin’s friend’s testicles. Because that’s a thing we do now.
Wiki How has interesting illustrations–can we guess the article?
This episode is sponsored by Enso Rings, makers of soft, safe, attractive silicone rings. Listeners get 10% off rings at EnsoRings.com using promo code SHORT!
Taylor and his wife are going to apply to Ivy League med school Brown University together. But they’re worried that it’s a lot to expect that schools will accept both of them as a package deal. But we think it might not be as difficult for schools to do as Taylor might assume. MD/PhD student Aline Sandouk, M2 Elvire Nguepnang, M1 Noah Wick, and M4 Mackenzie Walhof–along with our admissions director–have some encouraging thoughts for those looking to start their journey as a couple.
Also, we talk about Niki Minaj’s cousin’s friend’s testicles, the CDC’s approval of booster shots for Pfizer (and it’s director’s unilateral decision to include frontline workers as eligible), and Dave quizzes the crew to see if they can figure out what the Wiki How article is based on some accompanying illustrations.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
How to Find a Non-Trad Friendly School
Sep 23, 2021
What to look at when shopping for schools to apply to when you aren’t like other students
TL;DR
We discuss with a listener how to find a school that is friendly to non-traditional students.
Bringing wooly mammoths back to life?
Is talking about people who engage in questionable COVID treatments just adding to the problem?
This episode is sponsored by Enso Rings, makers of soft, safe, attractive silicone rings. Listeners get 10% off rings at EnsoRings.com using promo code SHORT!
Dave invited listener Brenna on the show to ask her question–as a decidedly non-traditional applicant to medical schools, how can she go about finding schools that will be open to her application? And what can she expect from those schools socially–will she be so different from her classmates that she isn’t able to find her people? MD/PhD students Aline Sandouk, Miranda Schene, Riley Behan, and M2 Sarah Costello have the answers!
We also discuss some special news items this week, like the startup that wants to CRISPr up some woolly mammoth/elephant hybrids to roam the tundra, the hospital that wants to use med students to fill in for their nursing shortage, and the people now (allegedly?) sipping betadine to prevent COVID.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Medical students who play instruments together and with others see benefits for teamwork and learning
Today’s episode is sponsored by Panacea Financial, a division of Primis, Member FDIC. Check out their PRN Personal Loans to help cover board exams or application costs, with decisions in as little as 24 hours and great interest rates!
TL;DR
Medical students can use their music background to enhance their education
Playing together and improvising is great practice for working in teams
The mental health benefits of playing or singing are huge–it’s impossible to play or sing without forgetting your cares.
M2s AJ Chowdhury (bass guitar), Trey Krupp (guitar), Anthony Piscopo (vocals) and M4 Dhruv Kothari (singer-songwriters), discuss their lives as musicians, and the uses that music has for understanding their lives as medical students and team members. Keeping music in their lives despite what feels like the all-consuming nature of medical education.
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Lone Stars and Lawsuits : Will Texas’ unique Solution to Abortion stand?
Sep 09, 2021
Texas thinks it’s finally found the solution to the abortion ‘problem.’ What will it cost them?
TL;DR
Now that Texas has conferred on its citizens the responsibility for enforcing it’s ban on abortions after six weeks of pregnancy, what will be the effects?
The University of Iowa community protests alleged sex abuse in Greek life, but the movement is tearing itself apart.
We play a game to distract ourselves from all that stuff.
The big national news this week is Texas’ ban on abortion after six weeks. Such laws in other states have routinely been blocked at the Federal level as unconstitutional. But the Texas law is different–instead of giving its attorney general the responsibility for enforcing the new law (and thus, someone to block from enforcing it), Texas has given the power of enforcement to all citizens of the US, allowing anyone to sue in civil court anyone who aids and abets in an attempt to seek an abortion, for up to $10,000. In other words, there’s no one for the Federal government to sue to block the law. What will be the effects on medical education, especially residency training, in Texas?
Also, we discuss our own community’s struggle as a large group accuses a fraternity of creating an environment that encourages sex abuse. But the movement–like many large activist groups–seems to be eating itself as its members debate the methods it should use. Is property damage a viable way to send a message, or does it detract from the message?
And we play a game to distract ourselves from all that stuff.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Rushing to Med School means Missed Opportunities
Sep 02, 2021
Taking your time may actually be better for your career than rushing through it
TL;DR
Rushing to med school may be a good idea, but there is a danger of missing experiences that make you a better student and a better doctor. But if you’re going to do it…go hard.
Nutrition is well covered in the med school curriculum, but there’s a lot we don’t understand.
Falling off a tall stack of milk crates on purpose has questionable health benefits.
This episode is sponsored by Enso Rings, makers of soft, safe, attractive silicone rings. Listeners get 10% off rings at EnsoRings.com using promo code SHORT!
Listener (and graduating high-school senior) Stephanie called 347-SHORTCT to ask about her plans to finish undergrad in 2 years and start med school at 19. While her actual question was how she could get everything done, our question was what would she miss out on that might inform and educate her about her medicine dreams? MD/PhD students Miranda Schene and Riley Behan, M2 Eric Boeshart, and M1 Zach Shepard discuss the cons.
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Overthinking: Keeping AdComms Up To Date
Aug 26, 2021
Is there etiquette on staying in touch with admissions?
TL;DR
A listener asks about the etiquette of keeping the adcom up to date on their activities.
We discuss Dave’s experience in the TSA line with an anti-masker.
Dave tries to come up with new business ideas that YOU can use (if you’re brave).
This episode is sponsored by Enso Rings, makers of soft, safe, attractive silicone rings. Listeners get 10% off rings at EnsoRings.com using promo code SHORT!
Listener Krazenwaz (not her real name) called 347-SHORTCT to ask if there is any etiquette surrounding staying in touch with admissions when they’ve asked you to. MD/PhD student Miranda Schene, M2s Nicole Hines and Rick Gardner, and M4 Emma Barr help Dave answer the question of how not to bother your adcom with your meaningless life (hint: don’t overthink it.)
Also, Dave discovers “farm brewed beer” after encountering an anti-masker in the TSA line, which leads him to think about other products that his imagination won’t let him make a million dollars on.
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How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Unsatisfied Just Learning Medicine, These Students Became Journalists, Too
Aug 19, 2021
The case for the physician-journalist
The Takeaways:
One important responsibility that doctors can and should take on is to educate their communities on health issues.
Learning how to do this in medical school can be as easy as collaborating with your university news paper.
Plus, our advice for a young mother and wife whose med student husband will be away during third year: plan, iterate and empathize.
In 2018, CCOM M4 Pavane Gorrepati launched The Doctor Is In, a recurring column in The Daily Iowan, the University of Iowa’s newspaper. The goals were to give all healthcare students an opportunity to publish science and opinion pieces, to bridge the divide between our undergrad and grad campuses by focusing on health-related issues that are relevant to the undergraduate population, and to give students experience on how they might convey complex topics to the general public through the popular press.
Pavane and her successor M2 Vijay Kamalumpundi join us for a discussion on this very successful endeavor and what they’ve learned. Among the things COVID has taught us is the importance of understanding complex topics!
But first, offer some advice to a nervous med student’s wife who will be spending a significant time apart from her spouse during his third year. MD/PhD student Aline Sandouk, and M2s Nicole Hines, Sarah Costello, and AJ Chowdhury offer some ideas on how they might cope with the separation and make sure their very young children don’t miss their dad too much.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
5 Med School Application Mistakes Everyone Makes, and How to Crush Them Under Your Feet Like Worms
Aug 12, 2021
Screw these up, and you may not get in!
TL;DR
Our expert looks at the mistakes that can keep you from landing your spot in med school
Give the admissions committee what it needs to assure them you want this more than anything, and that you’ve done your homework.
When is the right time to apply? When YOU are ready. Don’t rush it, because whether you’re successful or not in finishing med school, a bad decision will affect you for many, many years.
You’ve got the grades, you’ve got the activities, and you’ve got the drive. You’re ready to apply to medical school, right? Not if you haven’t squashed these critical errors in your application. Get these wrong, and you’ll be applying again next year. Get them right, and they can even turn a mediocre applicant into a desirable one.
Our Admissions and Enrollment Coordinator Rachel Ahearn joins MD/PhD students Aline Sandouk and Riley Behan, and M2s Rick Gardner and Sarah Costello to help you smash these problems under your heel.
Also, Rachel helps us answer listener Morgan’s question about post-bacc programs and damage control.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Ask Your doctor if COVID is Right For You.
Aug 05, 2021
As COVID numbers tick up, we choose to drown our sorrows in French/Korean fusion baked goods.
TL;DR
Dave picks his co-hosts’ brains on how they interpret the latest numbers on COVID
We eat baked goods that AJ brought us and try to guess what’s in them, and fail because they’re deliciously unlike anything we’ve had before.
We play Out of the Loop.
NOTE: this episode was recorded a few weeks back–some of the COVID numbers referred to are out of date, but the discussion is still valid.
Dave’s growing concerned about the recent uptick in COVID numbers, but like most non-epidemiologists, he isn’t quite sure what exactly they mean. So he brings it to the closest people he has to doctors to talk about it with on a Friday afternoon, his medical student co-hosts. MD/PhD student Aline Sandouk, M2 AJ Chowdhury, M2 Nicole Hines, and M2 Sarah Costello help him process.
To help that bitter pill go down, AJ brought some sweet tasty pastries all the way from Shilla Bakery in the Washington DC area. They aren’t a sponsor, we just really enjoyed their Korean/European fusion baked goods! Folks with misophonia, Nicole says sorry for her chewing noises.
And we play a game of Out of the Loop.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
The Coming Physician Exodus: Why Doctors May Leave the Profession Soon
Jul 29, 2021
COVID taught many employees what their employees think of them. Doctors are no different.
TL;DR
Most people don’t see themselves as partners in success, but as hired hands. Doctors are employees, too, and have similar issues with their employers!
30% of administrators reported losing physicians during the pandemic. Either an exit from healthcare or a mass shift of physicians from low-engagement jobs to higher engagement positions may have already begun.
We discuss what a great job for a doctor might look like.
In this episode future physicians M2 Nicole Hines, and MD/PhD students Miranda Schene, Aline Sandouk and newcomer Riley Behan are on hand to talk about “employee engagement,” the idea that workers–and physicians are workers, remember–feel best utilized and appreciated when they are partners rather than cogs in the success of their employers.
And while many physicians have experienced job dissatisfaction and burnout, COVID seems to have taught some docs that they no longer have to put up with that. As employers of all kinds struggle to bring disengaged workers back to their dissatisfying, low-paying jobs, a white paper from a physician recruiter ominously suggests that doctors are also re-thinking their work as employees.
With that in mind, Dave asks his co-hosts what, for them, might be the features of a job that they could feel engaged with, like a partner in success?
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Get ready for new application requirements (and to pay more money?)
TL;DR
CASPer seeks to help schools understand applicants’ non-academic and people skills. It’s never been validated, but more and more schools are using it.
Some residency programs have begun using ‘supplemental questions’ as so-called objective measures like STEP 1 and STEP 2 CS fall away.
Are these new hurdles useful? Or do they add to the burden of becoming a doctor for no reason?
Dave had never heard of CASPer before (Iowa doesn’t currently use it), so he was surprised to hear that a bunch of schools–and more all the time–are using it to outsource their judgements of applicants’ so-called ‘soft’ skills like ethics and collaboration. However, there are reasons to doubt CASPer’s utility, including that it’s not clear it’s actually measuring these things. And while it costs students a small amount per school (‘small’ being a relative term, especially if the student is cash-strapped), what does it cost the schools who use it and how much of that gets passed on in tuition?
And in their never-ending quest to find the ‘best’ applicants, residency programs are finding new ways to evaluate them, such as requiring answers to ‘supplemental’ questions that sound an awful lot like a secondary application. And the part that includes signaling the applicant’s program preference seems a wee bit suspicious to Dave, MD/PhD student Aline Sandouk, M2 Nicole Hines, M2 AJ Chowdhury, and M4 Mackenzie Walhof.
And is Britney Spears being subject to reproductive coercion by her conservators?
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
WHAT Are They REALLY LOOKING FOR IN YOUR PERSONAL STATEMENT? Top Tips from our Expert
Jul 15, 2021
Hint: it’s NOT a dramatic, ‘lightbulb’ moment.
TL;DR
Your med school application won’t be the last time you write a personal statement. They’re everywhere in medicine, so keep track of experiences you can write about when you need to.
Be careful about thinking too much about strategy, sacrificing the ‘personal’ part. It’s pretty easy to spot someone who isn’t writing with feeling.
Very few people can honestly write about a lightbulb moment when they suddenly knew what they wanted, so don’t bother.
Dave works in the Writing and Humanities Program with Director Cate Dicharry, MFA. Among her jobs is to assist medical students in writing their personal statements for residency applications, and she’s been deep in the weeds on that topic since partway through last semester. So Dave asked her to be on the show to give her top tips to both pre-meds and med students in crafting a statement that will grab their school’s or program’s attention. Joining us in the co-hosts’ seats are M4 Emma Barr, MD/PhD student Aline Sandouk, M2 Sarah Costello, and M2 AJ Chowdhury.
We also discuss how medical school curricula are evolving to incorporate more of the humanities into medical education. And Dave continues his weird interest in taking sweet foods and making them savory, this time offering up three ice cream flavors he and his wife made.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Parenting in Med School, Part 3: What About the Partners?
Jul 08, 2021
Because med school is all-consuming, partners often take on much of the parenting tasks
TL;DR
Asking for and getting help from one’s med-student partner when parenting gets overwhelming is essential.
Organizing with other med student parents for mutual support is crucial.
The fear that med school is completely inflexible for parents may be unfounded.
M4 Nick Lind and Miriam Lind are joined by M4 Michael Lung and Christina Lung to talk about the arrangements they’ve had to make and the techniques they’ve used in order to make med school parenting work. Also unintentionally, but predictably, on the mic–Nick and Miriam’s newborn Ingrid and Michael and Tina’s 11-month old Michaela. Warning–cute baby coos and mic-grabbing noises are a feature of this episode, not a flaw! Check out our YouTube channel for the video to see cute babies.
One of the things that’s come out of Nick’s efforts putting together this series for The Short Coat is that the families have started talking more. In fact, they’ve begun organizing a parents’ group to open lines of communication and support for each other. Podcasting FTW!
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Med school life hacks are all about maximizing efficiency, minimizing friction.
TL;DR
Eliminate unnecessary friction to the completion of a task
Paying others to do other life tasks can be helpful
Saying no is as important as maximizing efficiency.
Today we explore the things that med students do to maximize their efficiency. These are the small steps they take to eliminate friction to completing chores, focusing attention where it’s needed instead of where your brain wants it to be, and eliminating those tasks that just aren’t that important to them. M4 Mackenzie Walhof, MD/PhD student Aline Sandouk, M2 Nicole Hines, and M2 AJ Chowdhury explore with Dave their own personal life hacks.
Also, Dave ran famous doctors’ photos multiple times through an app that makes caricatures until they were no longer recognizable, then made videos of the progression. How fast can the crew identify them when the video is reversed? Play along at home on our Instagram.
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
HAVING BABIES IN MED SCHOOL, PT. 2: HOW DO SCHOOLS SUPPORT PARENTS?
Jun 24, 2021
Is it enough to deal with issues on a case-by-case basis, or do schools need to do better?
TL;DR
We share more stories from our med student parents.
What the research says about how medical schools are supporting parents and pregnant students in medical school.
How should med schools support student parents and pregnant students–can schools do better?
Physician training comes smack in the middle of prime parenting years. Yet the intensity and time commitment required to study medicine doesn’t make the decision to have kids while in school or residency–or to go into medicine when you already have kids-seem viable.
Of course, parents do it all the time, so CCOM Dad and M3 Nick Lind is back to host another in his series on medical school parenting with some other mommies and daddies. M1 Katie Higham-Kessler, M2s Jessica De Haan andSally Heaberlin, and M3 Zach Tully discuss what schools are doing to support their students who are considering or having children, and what they can do better.
Jessica also clues us in on the body of research into this important issue. There seems to be a lack of robust research on parenting in medical school, with most such studies focusing on residency–a very different situation. Perhaps the concept of the “traditional” medical student (who is age 22 to 26) has obscured the needs of the non-traditional student who is older and wants to start or has a family.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Urology is about more than penises and prostates, ft. Men’s Health Doc Amy Pearlman, MD
Jun 17, 2021
Serving Your Patients Shouldn’t Just Happen in the Office
TL;DR
Urologist Amy Pearlman has built her practice upon the opportunities offered by YouTube, Twitter, and Tik Tok.
The one question no one asks themselves that can help you decide on your future specialty: what can’t you live without?
Medical school does not teach you how to be a doctor. That’s what residency and fellowships are for.
Dr. Amy Pearlman is a urologist who operates a men’s health clinic at the University of Iowa. Co-hosts AJ Chowdhury (M1) and Aline Sandouk (MD/PhD) suggested her as a guest on the show, and boy is he glad he listened. Dr. Pearlman has so much to offer students on everything from offering patients value before they even arrive for their in-office visit, picking a specialty, and why men need a provider that focuses on their needs just as women do.
AJ and Aline join M3 Mason LaMarche and M4 Zach Tully for a fantastic conversation with Dr. Pearlman that could change the way you think about your future medical career.
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
When Life Is Getting In the Way of Med School: the Value of the Tactical Retreat.
Jun 10, 2021
Save Your Resources to Fight Another Day
TL;DR
Medical school is all-consuming, but sometimes you need to take time to deal with the slings and arrows of life.
Don’t be afraid that you’ll jeopardize your career by taking a leave during medical school. Better to do it before your situation causes harm to your test scores or grades.
A Brown University study finds that schools are failing in their diversity goals for admitting URMs.
Poking around on Reddit’s r/medschool, Dave found a rather desperate message from an M3 who’s life is collapsing around him–death, marriage troubles, family illnesses, and all at the same time. so much so that Dave fears their progress might suffer. Is it time for what a military commander might call a “tactical retreat?” Note: Dave isn’t really sure of the technical definition of a tactical retreat, but let’s just say it’s about stepping back and conserving your resources until the situation becomes more favorable to your goals. It’s a metaphor, go with it.
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Hot Takes: Dr. Marty Makary dissects the US COVID Response, and he isn’t happy
Jun 03, 2021
We were too slow, too cautious, and too “old-guard” in our responses to COVID
TL;DR
Guest Marty Makary condemns the old way that healthcare responds to current events.
Sticking to the clinical trials process and a reluctance to use the knowledge already available from Chinese doctors slowed US responses and killed people.
“We had terrible medical leadership throughout the pandemic, and I think it’s good for our leaders to show some degree of humility to say, look, we consistently got it wrong.”
This episode is sponsored by Panacea Financial, a company just for medical students and doctors. Check them out!
New York Times bestselling author and Johns Hopkins surgeon Marty Makary returns to the show to just blast US healthcare and medicine’s response to COVID. The flip-flopping on mask effectiveness, the distribution of vaccines, ignoring the role of natural immunity of people who were infected and survived, insisting on a two-dose vaccine rollout instead of first getting everyone vaccinated once. All of these decisions were slow, ill-considered, and in some cases theatrical rather than scientific. Even Fauci got it wrong! *gasp*
Join MD/PhD student Aline Sandouk, and M1s AJ Chowdhury and Rick Gardner as we dissect the chaos. The paperback edition of Dr. Makary’s book, The Price We Pay, includes an update that discusses COVID’s implications for the business of healthcare.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Raising babies in med school is possible, with careful thought and lots of help
TL;DR
The choice to become pregnant in medical school is always a difficult one to make, considering the time constraints and the physical toll it can take.
Raising a kids in medical school is perhaps even harder, as even if things go well in the pregnancy, now you’ve got little humans to learn about, protect, and enjoy (and miss out on, sometimes).
In Part One of this three-parter, we’ll lay it all bare for you–what’s it really like to raise a family while learning to be a doctor.
It’s a good thing they’re cute, cause they’re going to screw up your carefully constructed life.
Rising M4 Nick Lind is taking over for Dave this week for this special episode devoted to parenting in medical school. Nick is taking an elective dealing with that very subject, and he’s invited classmates Mackenzie Walhof and Chris Schanbacher as well as CCOM grad Dr. Michael Haugsdal to talk with him about the challenges students and residents face when they decide to grow their families despite already being engaged in one of the most difficult and time-consuming things a person can do.
This is part 1 of a multipart series that Nick is putting together for his elective project, and we’ll have more discussions on this topic in the weeks to come. In Part 2, The Short Coats will dsicuss how medical schools can and are supporting student parents; and in Part 3, we’ll hear from the spouses of medical students.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Practicing Humanism when patients Doubt Your Motives
May 20, 2021
Humanism isn’t just for the good days.
Today’s episode is sponsored by Panacea Financial, a division of Primis, member FDIC. Hope you’ll check them out!]
Rick Garner, AJ Chowdhury, Alex Belzer and Eric Boeshart are on hand to discuss our recent celebration of humanism in medicine, along with a speech by Dr. Nicholas Mohr in which he mentioned that for the first time this year his diagnostic skills were questioned for his political motives.
And the gang plays Psych! with Dave for reasons that he obviously made up.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Recess Rehash: DROWNING IN EXTRACURRICULAR ACTIVITIES
May 13, 2021
Doing stuff outside of your coursework is fantastic…until it isn’t.
Actual photograph of Gwyneth Paltrow’s “This Smells Like My Vagina” candle in use.
[Dave was suddenly called home for a family emergency, so no recording this week. Enjoy this rerun, though!]
Listener Tasneem Ahmed–a fourth-year medic at London’s King’s College–joins MD/PhD student Aline Sandouk, M4 Holly Conger, and M1s AJ Chowdhury and Alex Belzer on the show. She wrote to us at theshortcoats@gmail.com because she wanted to talk with us about those times when extracurricular activities are too much of a good thing. These activities are important to both schools and students as a way to convey and learn vital lessons about service and career opportunities. But there is a temptation to overdo it in an attempt to distinguish oneself as a competitive applicant. Take that far enough, and it’s a recipe for exhaustion and burnout.
We also take time to compare the two systems of medical education, dance on the grave of Step 2 CS, and cover the most important story of January 2021: Gwyneth Paltrow’s exploding vagina candle.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
Hitting the Wall, Then Scaling the Heights
May 06, 2021
The M1 Wall is Real. You’ll Probably Have to Climb It.
TL;DR
Taking the med ed bull by the horns in a purposeful way will get your through one of the toughest moments.
Given any definition of “success,” a medical student who succeeds in medical school engages “like they paid for it.”
The definition of “success” doesn’t necessarily include honors grades or high scores. If you choose what it means, you will succeed!
Today’s show is sponsored by Panacea Financial, the digital bank created for doctors, by doctors.
You can choose your metric for success!
After hearing of a student’s struggles with the M1 wall–that point students get to when they’re exhausted, questioning their choices, and worrying how they’re going to get through this–got Dave thinking about the various ways medical school challenges the psyche. Whether it’s suddenly bumping up against ones’ limits, realizing some disturbing aspects of the hidden curriculum, or grappling with doubt, medical school is a real beast.
It’s not uncommon to feel alone when you hit the wall. Everyone around you looks cool…but are they really? When you decide to open up about your struggles, what if no one reciprocates? And in a world where not everyone is above the very-high mean, what does it mean to be below average? MD/PhD students Aline Sandouk and Miranda Schene, M3 Nick Lind, and M1 Eric Boeshart have all run into the wall, and are on today’s show to tell the tale.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
Dave Etler: [00:00:00]
Welcome back to the short code podcast, a production of the university of Iowa
Carver college of medicine. I’m Dave Etler. with me in the studio today it’s a
man who was as cute as a bug’s ear. It’s MP3, Nicklin, a bug’s ear. How bug’s
ear she flies beyond fates control. It’s MD/PhD student Miranda scheme.
I’d rather doubt an article than question what she delivers.
It’s MD/PhD student Alene, sand Duke. Very fair. And joining me in the form of
ones and zeros. It’s the jammy, just bit of jam
Eric. Bozart. Feeling
Eric Boeshart: [00:01:11]
pretty one today. Over the zero? Yeah.
Nick Lind: [00:01:13]
Okay. That’s good. One.
we’re also live streaming on our Facebook group, the short
code student lounge.
Dave Etler: [00:01:20]
So why not check us out there? You can see all the things I say that we edit
out of the show. Um, say like a week earlier than we posted, if that’s what
the, I mean, if you’re into that If you
Aline Sandouk: [00:01:28]
just can’t live without us.
Dave Etler: [00:01:32]
Well, it’s also nice. You can participate. So that’s know hipster
Miranda Schene: [00:01:35]
vibes, being able to, when all your friends are listening to podcasts, you’d be
like, I already knew that.
I know that I know the punchline to that joke. That’s
Dave Etler: [00:01:42]
right. I’m not even gonna make you sign up for a Patrion to do it, you know?
Cause that’s all right. That’s how giving I am
Miranda Schene: [00:01:48]
also because he doesn’t know how to set up a patriotic,
Dave Etler: [00:01:53]
main reason that I bet you could figure it out someday. today’s show sponsored
by panacea financial.
The digital bank created for doctors by doctors. I’m really
happy to have them back. So we’ll talk more about them later on the show as for
today’s. Topic, you guys don’t even know. I didn’t even tell you about today’s
topic. You know, why in the dark, you know why I didn’t tell you about today’s
Miranda Schene: [00:02:17]
topic?
Has he
we’ve known you too long for us to pull that wool over our
eyes.
Dave Etler: [00:02:25]
There is a student I heard about recently who was running up against a few
problems. the M one wall, ah, you guys all immediately were like, ah, Does the
ring ring a bell for you? But tell me about the .
Miranda Schene: [00:02:37]
Well, I feel like, I mean, I don’t know the specific student’s exact problem,
but for me, the on wall was sort of when I realized, Oh no, I’m in trouble
here.
And this is a new experience it’s for me
Dave Etler: [00:02:50]
in trouble in terms
Miranda Schene: [00:02:52]
of in trouble in terms of like academics and the fact that. Like for a lot of
people coming into my, and this again was my experience. I quite good
academically I don’t mean to brag to anybody here. I’m quite good. humble,
humble brag.
Yeah, that wasn’t really humble though. That was just a
straight up brag. I appreciate it though. but then once you hit a certain
amount of med school and the pace has picked up, and you’re now into territory
that you have never seen before and suddenly this feeling of, Oh, this. Like I
am struggling and I haven’t in my previous academic career had this type of
struggle before, so I’m both struggling and I don’t really know how to deal
with it.
Yeah.
Dave Etler: [00:03:29]
What, what about y’all’s M M one wall. Was there something for you guys?
Aline Sandouk: [00:03:34]
White coat
imposter syndrome started at the white
Aline Sandouk: [00:03:46]
Yeah, no, I think yeah, I, of course I know the wall.
Everyone knows the wall who doesn’t know the wall. I did
notice everyone hits it at different points, I think. And that’s an interesting
observation. The first one. And sometimes the second, some people don’t hit the
wall until the second semester, but yeah, it really dawns on you that you’re in
a whole new world and these are whole new stakes.
and yeah, I don’t know.
Miranda Schene: [00:04:09]
Do we hit the wall? I students MSTP any Haiti’s town fans in our listenership
are going nuts right now. Okay.
Nick Lind: [00:04:17]
Yeah. You know, it’s I think it’s because it’s such a new experience to any of
us. Cause you know, The amount of material that you go through during that,
for, during all of med school, to be honest, but especially that first semester
I mean, you’re basically covering everything and that foundations class that
you covered.
And all of your preparation for medical school. And, and so
you just covered it all and you know, one semester and half a semester and half
a semester, and you even expounded on some topics that you didn’t even. No.
Anything about
Aline Sandouk: [00:04:54]
all the extra credit stuff from undergrad is now core material. Like all of the
stuff that you thought you were going to do for like, you know, brownie points
to like suck up to the teacher.
Like, no, you have to know all of that too. So yeah.
Eric, what
Eric Boeshart: [00:05:07]
about you? Yeah, yeah. I, a hundred percent agree. It’s. I think kind of what
Nick was saying where it’s like, so I did, I did a master’s program before
coming here. It was just kind of like a, one-year kind of doing some more of
the hard science type stuff.
Cause my background’s in engineering. And so you, you know,
I went through that master’s program. You’d take things like, you know, I did
an anatomy course. I did, you know, some pretty in depth Physiology stuff. And
then you come into med school and like, you cover that within the first two
weeks. And you’re just like, okay, so that’s an entire master’s degree.
So
Dave Etler: [00:05:42]
expedited. Yeah. I think there’s also for this student. It was all that. Yeah.
And then I also think that they were concerned. They’re concerned about the
hidden curriculum that they started to notice. Yes, this is so the hidden
curriculum. If you’re not, if you don’t know what that is, I guess I would call
it the,
the part,
Dave Etler: [00:06:03]
the thing that isn’t actually part of the curriculum, but that you’re learning
anyway.
Like how to be like how to be a doctor. Sure. Like what it
means to be a doctor in terms of things like professionalism. Yeah.
Aline Sandouk: [00:06:17]
Yeah. It’s it’s office politics for, for anyone who’s ever worked in an office,
right? Like don’t use Linda’s mug. You never use Linda’s mom. She’ll lose her
mind.
But
Dave Etler: [00:06:29]
it’s uh, you know, things like, you know, how to, how to act like a doctor.
Yeah. How to project that image. What is that image?
Nick Lind: [00:06:38]
I think that really picks up once you hit clinical clerkships, like in you, you
know, you’re working with these people and you’re, you know, within the first
day of working with them, you’re trying to figure out how they tick. Because
like, you know, if you kind of do the wrong thing, you’re going to get called
out pretty quickly.
Depending on who the person
Aline Sandouk: [00:06:58]
is, figuring out where their sharp edges are and then how to stay away from
them.
Miranda Schene: [00:07:04]
A lot of times when we talk about the hidden curriculum, we talk about it as
well, in terms of like relating to patients in a way that isn’t, you’re my
friend, I’m having a conversation, been in a way that is you are the patient,
and I need to figure out what’s wrong with you.
And that, that goes through things like anatomy lab, where
you’re, you may be doing a cadaver dissection for the first time and having to
deal with that, like emotionally, as well as learning all the material. Yeah.
And then actually figuring out how to break a patient story down into
constituent components, which you are then graded on.
Yeah.
Dave Etler: [00:07:33]
Yeah. But I think it’s also about how to look like a doctor, you know, and,
That there are problems with this because not everybody looks the same way.
Yeah. That’s
Aline Sandouk: [00:07:44]
an interesting conversation. I think Danny had by a lot of people in healthcare
right now,
Miranda Schene: [00:07:49]
like th this is the problem with the hidden curriculum is that it’s hidden.
It’s never anything. I don’t think it’s ever been something
that’s been intentionally taught. It’s just sort of generally accepted that
odd. This is also things that people develop through their
medical surgical time,
Dave Etler: [00:08:01]
sort of like the culture. It’s learning the culture of medicine, which means
Miranda Schene: [00:08:06]
it’s, which isn’t only influenced by things like unconscious bias.
Right.
Dave Etler: [00:08:10]
Insanely it isn’t always great. The culture of medicine, you know, there, there
is no culture that is always great. and medicine has its difficulties to, you
know, basically, you know, how do, how do. You know, what are the aspects of
the culture of medicine that I’m talking about? Like hard work all the time.
grades is the most important thing. Yeah.
Aline Sandouk: [00:08:29]
looks do matter though. I don’t know if that’s
Dave Etler: [00:08:31]
where you’re, it’s not that they don’t matter. it’s just that they are perhaps
matter more than they need.
Aline Sandouk: [00:08:39]
Oh, I did say they mattered. I don’t know if you misheard me. Oh, okay. Yes,
Dave Etler: [00:08:42]
but maybe I it up. Is that because
Aline Sandouk: [00:08:47]
you said a bad
Dave Etler: [00:08:49]
part of the hidden curriculum don’t, don’t swear on the podcast.
Miranda Schene: [00:08:57]
Don’t swear in front of children. I mean, in front of patients
Dave Etler: [00:09:02]
repel against that,
Aline Sandouk: [00:09:03]
you know, I remember something in my first year with Ellen Franklin, it was
like a small group and someone was like,
Dave Etler: [00:09:10]
Oh yeah, Are I guess they would, they used to call it the performance-based
assessment.
Aline Sandouk: [00:09:14]
Yeah. She’s like the clinical skills assessment director for folks not at
SeaComm, but I was in a small group and she was like, people were asking, you
know, w what are the expectations for like, how we should look, how we should
dress?
Should it be like interview day? Which, you know,
interviews, people are wearing full suits a little much. And she was like,
well, you know, as long as you look clean and you’ve run a brush through your
hair. And I thought that that was such like reasonable advice. And then I. Like
I grew up a little and I realized that like I was, some people don’t consider
like certain types of ethnic hair, clean looking.
Right. So some people don’t consider certain. Looks or
certain ways of dressing as like clean
Dave Etler: [00:09:52]
cut. Yeah. So like when, when somebody says run a brush through your hair, what
does that really mean? I think that’s part of the hidden whose hair, right?
That’s part of the hidden curriculum. I mean, there’s all kinds of problems
with this hidden curriculum.
precisely because it is, it is hidden. I think
Aline Sandouk: [00:10:07]
it’s changing for the better though. And people are talking about it. People
are talking about talking about it, and I think patients are the. The
demographics of patients is changing too, because I think historically doctors
acted in such a way that was help patients expect, like patients expected to
come to the doctor and maybe I’m wrong.
I’m I don’t mean to generalize, not a hundred percent, but I
think patients came to the doctor expecting to be told what was going to happen
and what they should do. And they liked it that way. And then, you know, the
next generation came along and was like, no, I want to be. Partners in care
with you. I don’t want to be your employee in my care.
And I think that’s where the older guard of medicine is
like, what is this? No, no, no. I tell you what to do, but like now we’re
coming up and like we’re a little bit more, I guess, like culturally congruent
with that. Right. So
Dave Etler: [00:10:56]
there’s more to the hidden curriculum than we haven’t yet discussed. For
instance, There is a S this, this particular student had observed the social
currency that circulates around things like how much you study, how well you
score on tests you know striving to get honors grades, as opposed to striving,
to pass your course and striving to learn.
Right. Which is an important distinction.
Nick Lind: [00:11:20]
Yeah, no,
Dave Etler: [00:11:21]
that’s very true. So F so for instance, like one of the things this person
noticed was you know, professors will let you know, after the exam, what the
average was. On the exam. and I’m not a professional, I’m not, I don’t, I’m
certainly not an expert on educational theory.
but I think to some extent it’s sort of a defensive maneuver
by the professor who needs to prove to the population of medical students, that
it was a successful exam. Yeah. Yup. that it was valid in some way. but what
this student found is that those averages were a source of pressure.
did I perform to the average and the message there being
that your only value. Is the grade that you get. and by the way, push back at
me, if you think, if you think I’m full of shit and anything
Miranda Schene: [00:12:01]
that I say, can I say very quickly? I actually still remember the first time I
scored below the class average on an exam, because like the first like
foundations in the first MD/PhD I was still like pretty doing okay.
And then it hit like the spring semester and I was like, Oh
crap. And I still remember it. The best thing I ever did was I found. Friend.
And my friends were not in these lights. You must get honors or you will die
type people. They were the chill people. And like, we both had a conversation
and she was like, Oh yeah.
I also scored below the average. And it was like, and we
pointed out to each other that like 50% of the class got below the average. And
we’re not a bad student for coming below the average. There can be a
Dave Etler: [00:12:41]
challenge to find that, that, friend. Yeah,
Aline Sandouk: [00:12:44]
it, it requires a little bit of vulnerability and it’s game.
Like vulnerability, chicken, and you’re like, Oh, and then
they give a little, and then you give a little, and then you get to the truth.
Cause it’s, it’s hard. Like that’s not information you can just come out with
and be like, I done failed that test. And then if no one was soliciting that
information or if no one is comfortable sharing that, you know, you’re now in
this weird vulnerability black hole.
But yeah, those are real. I could not agree more. I love
those moments in med school and just like in life, in general, when you’re
like. Yeah, that was hard. And the other person’s like, yes, yes. That was hard
and hard guys. And you both know exactly what you’re talking about.
Nick Lind: [00:13:22]
Yeah. I was just going to say, you know, you take a bunch of people who score
in the top 10% You know, all through their lives and you put them in a room
together and give them the same test. They, they still distribute into a
bell-curve where you still have people at the bottom and you have people at the
top and you have almost everybody else in the middle.
and that’s that’s med school. I mean that that’s everything
in life. And it it’s difficult to come because you’re used to being in that top
10% or higher. And it’s difficult to come to the fact that, Hey, maybe I’m
average or maybe. I’m below average because you know, that exists too. And uh,
Dave Etler: [00:13:57]
I feel comfortable being below it
I’m above average, in some
Miranda Schene: [00:14:05]
ways you’re in the you’re in the first core tile in our hearts,
in the
Eric Boeshart: [00:14:11]
box and whisker plot,
Dave Etler: [00:14:14]
the error bars are just very large. Um,
Eric Boeshart: [00:14:17]
I felt like, you know, we’re talking about averages and stuff.
I would even go a step further to say, like, I feel like it.
In my experience we didn’t hit that
point where I think a majority of people were able to say, like, be open about
like, Hey, I didn’t do well on that test. Like, we didn’t hit that until
probably this semester before clinicals.
Dave Etler: [00:14:36]
Interesting,
Eric Boeshart: [00:14:36]
where it’s just like, you know, I feel like most people were open about that.
Dave Etler: [00:14:40]
Does that ring true to you guys? Or did that happen earlier? Do you think. I,
it kinda, it
Miranda Schene: [00:14:46]
kinda depends. Like I, I do remember in one of our learning communities, we
would almost always have like group D not official group D brief, but informal
group debrief, or it all just like come collapsed on the couches and be like,
well, that sucked.
And that just sort of like opened the floor to be, and it
wasn’t necessarily like I scored this or I scored this. It was never, no one
asked about grades, but it was just like that. Was rough. And that gives you
exactly. That gives you like no information about how that it, maybe it was
rough, but they still got like a hundred percent.
You don’t know, but either way it’s still like commiserating
about that was really hard. And that was tough. And now, wow. I did not even
think that was going to be on there, but Oh, I guess this person really loves
stomach ulcers. I just got more flashbacks. I
think.
Nick Lind: [00:15:29]
I agree. I think the class is pretty good, even from early on.
Like if you. Did poorly, there was at least for me, like I
had a group of people I could easily go talk to. They were pretty open with
like, Oh yeah. Like that was, that was rough. And I think that was really
common. I think I
Dave Etler: [00:15:47]
should say, I should have said before, you know, and like, I’m getting, you
know, when I, when I say I heard about the student, I’ve heard about them
secondhand,, if the student happens to, you know, hear this, I want to say that
I’m not like, yeah, I want to say that. I, well, I just want to say that this
is, you know, th that, this is important to talk about this particular.
Student, apparently had tried discussing with other students
and felt some resistance to that vulnerability. And I was intrigued when you,
Eric said that it took until just before going out into clinicals to open up
you, it kind of makes sense
Eric Boeshart: [00:16:21]
to come into my own realization of getting a pulse on where the.
we were You know, like I agree with Nick, like I did have a
group of people that, you know, you could, I could go to and be like, Hey, I,
you know, I’ve got a general pulse on my group, but I didn’t realize that that
spread out farther to the class until probably before clinics.
Miranda Schene: [00:16:40]
And, and this unfortunately is, and I know we’re all sick of talking about how
COVID has impacted medical education, but that’s a big problem where it’s like,
it’s become essentially, like I’ve only now been seeing sort of like students
back in the communities.
And even then I imagine socialization is relatively down. so
it’s hard to get that pulse on where your classes at it’s hard to get that
collected. Like. Woof kind of moment where everyone sort of collects and shares
and is a bit, and sort of debrief with each other.
Dave Etler: [00:17:07]
Cause even if exams were in person, you’d sort of run away from each other and
go there.
Miranda Schene: [00:17:11]
So like we were just talking, I sat down and I instinctively picked the
farthest chair away in the corner just because that’s how like, all right, six
feet where it, we got to be distanced kind of thing.
Dave Etler: [00:17:21]
I
Miranda Schene: [00:17:22]
I’m sorry. I just want to run away from me, Dave. We’re actually trying to get
away from you.
Aline Sandouk: [00:17:26]
Miranda’s
Miranda Schene: [00:17:26]
just being nice. I’m leaning back as that goes on, just getting as much
bullying. He’s going to get
Aline Sandouk: [00:17:39]
some really bad mental health problems. If you don’t let them know, we’re
joking. Once
Miranda Schene: [00:17:43]
in a while, I haven’t been on the podcast in so long. I forgot how much of it
is just managing
Aline Sandouk: [00:17:48]
Dave’s
emotions.
Dave Etler: [00:17:53]
I guess the upshot from what I understood is, and I think I’m paraphrasing
here. So I hope I get it right. They felt kind of unprotected. and they’re, you
know, they they’re sort of mental health was feeling precarious because of all
this and, and, but they were afraid to seek help. Sure about it. in the form
of, in the form of, you know, things like counseling yeah.
Aline Sandouk: [00:18:16]
In their defense around some people they should be afraid. No, that’s not to
say,
Miranda Schene: [00:18:22]
hang
Dave Etler: [00:18:22]
on, hang on.
Aline Sandouk: [00:18:25]
that’s all to say that like, Be extremely careful who you share that
information with because it’s a 50, 50 chance that you’re sharing that with
someone who’s going to go, Hey, I’m really sorry to hear that.
Let me help you. And then the other 50% are going to go, all
right, great information to have in my pocket. And I’m not joking about that.
That’s something to be very mindful of, but like before you go spilling all
your beans, like. Throw a crumb out there and see how they react and, you know,
before you start really opening up.
So
Dave Etler: [00:18:57]
I would argue that, I mean, I mean, first of all, th this hesitation brings up
two questions for me personally. should the institution protect you? is there
any value, I mean, yes, to some extent the institution should protect you, but
is there any, any value long-term in being unprotected? So that’s question
number one.
Aline Sandouk: [00:19:15]
What type of protection?
Dave Etler: [00:19:17]
I mean, I don’t know, like you know, because I, because I wasn’t able to ask
follow up questions.
Miranda Schene: [00:19:21]
I’m sorry, but may I throw out a metaphor before I forget? Yes, I believe yes
and no. The difference between like chucking someone in the deep end and then
checking someone in the deep end, followed by chucking them a life ring.
You know, where it’s like
Dave Etler: [00:19:37]
chucking them in the deep end and then throwing some chum
Miranda Schene: [00:19:41]
because I exactly like, I think there is definitely value in having to sort of
like, In being vulnerable and being able to like getting that challenge and
having to sort of climb out. But like, there should be a ladder where it’s
like, if you’re like, okay, I have tried and I cannot, I’ve re I’m mixing my
metaphors, but I have tried and I cannot climb out of this hole.
It’s like, okay. Deploy the emergency ladder. Cause like to
meet you halfway. Yeah.
Aline Sandouk: [00:20:06]
Adversity is character building. Right. And I’ll never forget this. This, I
don’t know where I heard this, but I remember reading somewhere that like trees
need when to grow. Otherwise they die. Like that’s so profound. Like they need
the push of wind to kind of push the sapling down to motivate it, to grow big
and strong.
Like,
Dave Etler: [00:20:24]
but they don’t need a daily hurricane
Aline Sandouk: [00:20:28]
mercy. It doesn’t work if it’s like lethal. Right. It has to be up to a point
where like, kind of like Miranda is saying that someone will step in and be
like, okay, Hey, you strolled enough. Well, let’s bring you in and then we can
talk some more.
And I think
Nick Lind: [00:20:43]
what’s that Miranda
Yeah. Yeah. You know,
I
Nick Lind: [00:21:08]
think in pre-clinicals too, it’s important to kind of have some of those
situations where you’re struggling and, and kind of pushing your limits because
once you get to the clinical side of things, You’re you’re much more
independent. You have to like, not only balance the academic side, because
you’re going to have an exam at the end on everything that you need to know for
that clerkship, but you also have to be learning all of the practical hands-on
things for that clerkship at the same time.
And you’re going to be pushed even harder than you were in
pre-clinicals. because there’s, there’s just a ton that you need to know. And
if you’re not setting yourself up, you know, from, from the beginning, it’s
going to be even more difficult. So I think the institution does need to push
you. I do think that there needs to be safety nets, and I think that there are
here you know, you’re going to get that email orcall or whatever from the
counseling center about, you know, are you okay?
Like What can we do to help you academically and, and you
know, which
Miranda Schene: [00:22:07]
I think sometimes it might hurt more than it helps or it’s like, I think I’m
doing okay.
right.
Aline Sandouk: [00:22:17]
But I’m sorry, Dave, did you want to ask
a
Miranda Schene: [00:22:19]
follow up questions? Right? Do you want to play on your phone? I’m trying
Dave Etler: [00:22:22]
to just make sure that
Aline Sandouk: [00:22:30]
The question was,
Dave Etler: [00:22:31]
I have no idea if the live stream worked or not I’ve know, seems to be working,
but then it says you were
Aline Sandouk: [00:22:37]
well, we’re having fun. That’s all that matters.
Miranda Schene: [00:22:40] Voice cracked.
I guess the other thing,
Dave Etler: [00:22:48]
the other question that it brings up to me is why are people still afraid of
seeking help?
Aline Sandouk: [00:22:52]
Because people are still making other people feel bad. That’s why there are
still those, sorry. Blood heads out there that are like, look at this loser.
Pardon my
French. No, no, no.
Dave Etler: [00:23:04]
There’s that there is that. I think there’s that risk.
Nick Lind: [00:23:06]
I think, you know, another aspect of it is our society, our culture, our, the
way that we, especially as medical students, the way that. We’re raised. We, we
often didn’t need help, you know, from Trump high school on the college, you
know, some of us who might’ve had a career before med school
you know
Nick Lind: [00:23:27]
we were able to do it.
Well, without the help. And then you get here and it’s,
it’s,
you know, the heart of one of the harder things I’ve ever
done, you know here in med school.
Nick Lind: [00:23:36]
And I think, you know, when you start hitting your limits you may be, have done
that before, but not quite as often and is like, It doesn’t stop here
and
Nick Lind: [00:23:48]
makes it back. Yeah. Yeah. That’s hard for, I think someone to really grasp
ahold of and understand and understand when they need help, because they never
needed help before.
Dave Etler: [00:23:58]
I think the thing though, is that school spend a lot of money and effort
putting in place these efforts. and they really want you to use them, you know,
like the counseling center, the You know, the tutoring groups, the you know,
what, what are some other ones?
The
the, the mechanism to get accommodation? Yeah, I
Miranda Schene: [00:24:19]
think sometimes those accommodations are often framed as like. Oh, well, if
you, and I don’t think that this is a bad thing, but it’s like, Oh, if you
start like dropping back and failing, then you have to come to us and admit,
Oh, I’m a failure. And I need cause which is not true at all.
It’s just, those are things that happen sometimes. And
occasionally you require it. Agreed
Dave Etler: [00:24:41]
agreed.
Eric Boeshart: [00:24:41]
But I can kind of speak to that too, if we want to talk about that. Cause I’m,
you know, I think on top of that, you know, there there’s the general failures
of, okay. You know, maybe you’re not studying correctly.
Maybe, you know, maybe you’re not using all the tools
available, but then there’s things that like life happens. And I know Nick had
talked about, you know, before the podcast we were talking about. you know,
sometimes people start families, you know, life kind of happens around med
school. Well, I had an accident in the middle of first semester, second year,
and now I’m kind of taking a step out.
So, I mean, you kind of hit a point where, you know, I. For
me, it was a concussion. And so I, you know, all of a sudden school becomes a
lot harder and I, you know, there, it was a combination of my injury, but also
a combination of, you know having to admit that I need to use the resources
that are available.
And, you know, I think that now. That’s kind of been put
into perspective, but I think that, you know, there, you’re taking a group of
people that haven’t had to use these resources and you’re like, you know,
expecting them to just jump in. And I, I, you know, I just don’t
Aline Sandouk: [00:25:52]
too. And not
Miranda Schene: [00:25:53]
to mention, you’re also taking a group of people that have more or less defined
themselves on not needing help before, where it’s like, like when you are the
best student of the class, you don’t need a tutor.
You don’t need additional support. That’s
Dave Etler: [00:26:04]
why I want to talk about this because. I think that needs to go away. Yeah, I
agree. I think that that needs to go away. And I think that, you know, if, if,
if this conversation was successful in any way, it would be that, you know, say
a pre-med out there who is struggling.
Really got the message that if you need help, go get it and
don’t give a shit what anybody else thinks about you. because one of the things
I think you guys know. And that I’ve noticed about medical education. Is this
hot take, are you ready? React to this statement? Okay. There is no such thing
as a passive and successful medical student.
Eric Boeshart: [00:26:44] Yeah, I wouldn’t, I
mean, at the same
rate,
Dave Etler: [00:26:49]
Okay. There is no such thing as a passive and successful medical student. And
we’re going to delve into
Miranda Schene: [00:26:54]
that because I need like three things to find. Define success. Number one,
define passive number two.
Yes. I
Nick Lind: [00:27:02]
never find
medical students.
Dave Etler: [00:27:08]
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Very cool. by
successful, let’s start there. I mean, wringing, everything you can out of
medical education. Sure. Oh, well, yeah. Okay. Not getting honors or getting
into ortho or getting into ortho. That’s not what I mean. I mean, if that’s
your goal, that’s
fine. That’s fine. Be successful in that. Yeah. Yeah.
Miranda Schene: [00:28:56]
So I was going to say, I can think of multiple medical students that have been
what I would call passive, and who’ve gotten like straight honors and higher
grades and everything,
Dave Etler: [00:29:05]
you know what?
Okay. So then we’ve got to get to pass it, right? passive, I
mean, a passive consumer of what medical school has to offer. So you sit there
and you Hoover up knowledge and then you spit it back out. That is what I think
of as a passive medical student. All right.
Nick Lind: [00:29:21]
Go. You know what, one thing I wanted to mention after you you kind of define
things there.
One of my peers, I had asked about a rotation one time and
he said, Hey, it’ll be great.
Dave Etler: [00:29:33]
If you
Nick Lind: [00:29:34]
treat it, like you paid for it. And I was, which,
you know, I
Nick Lind: [00:29:39]
did good and I should really treat this rotation. Like I paid for it. And, you
know it’s a way I’ve kind of been trying to handle the rest of my clinical
clerkships.
Like I’m going to treat this, like I paid for it. Like, I’m
going to go in and I’m going to ask to do the cool things. And I’m going to try
to like, do the things that I want to do and learn the things that I want to
learn. And you know, it, it’s kind of been fun. Did
Dave Etler: [00:30:04]
that change anything for you or did it just give you a new perspective on what
you were doing?
It
Nick Lind: [00:30:09]
gave me a new perspective, but I think it did change, you know, cause some
clerkships you have the opportunity to kind of pick and choose a little more of
what you want to do. like, like say like emergency medicine that’s a good one
because you get to sign up for patients and you kind of get to pick what you
know, who you want to see.
And, you know, if you want to go to that trauma, that’s on
the other team that you’re not assigned to, you can go to that trauma and yeah.
You know, it, it’s a good way to, to look at a clerkship and, and kind of. You
know, there are things that you’re going to be asked to do no matter what. but
there might be some options where you get to go in and, you know, even just ask
like when I was on OB GYN, I you know, was in a room and there was an attending
that was going to work independently in another room.
And I said, Hey, can I go work with that attending? it was
in the, or, and he didn’t have any residents, no fellows. So it was just me and
him. And I got to do way more, but I bet you had a
Dave Etler: [00:31:03]
great experience. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Miranda Schene: [00:31:06]
One thing I’ll say is that when you are sort of more like assertive and asking
people, you will be surprised when people will say yes to where it’s like,
there’s a lot of things where like, I’ve had people express to me, like, man, I
wish I could do this.
And then they are. You know, people are like, okay, well,
why don’t you do that? And they’re like, Oh, good point. And then it’s I never
thought of it that way. Oh, I didn’t. Yeah. Cause there’s sort of this
assumption. It’s like the it’s like that one picture of a horse that’s like tied
to a kid’s deck chair where it’s like your limits are.
Yes. So I th it’s one of those things where I think
sometimes people are passive because they don’t know they have an option. It’s
like, you can just like ask for things that you want. I think
Dave Etler: [00:31:49]
also, I mean, that’s, that’s amazing insight and I think that’s something that
That is directly applicable to the clinical part of your education.
And I think it’s also directly, I can see how it’s directly
applicable to an MD/PhD education because those two things, while there are.
You know, set things that you need to do. And you’ll be asked to do things
specifically. There’s also an element at some point of self-determination it’s
a little harder to see that in the preclinical curriculum, because you can’t
just go up to the course director, who’s put together this, you know, this Mo
you know, semester long course and say, yeah, but I want to look at them.
Yeah. but there are things that you can do. During the
preclinical phase to sort of. You know, be more active. I mean, good. I think
the best students that I’ve seen you know, they, they organize that vacuuming
up of knowledge, right? They organize the actual process of consuming it. They
organize the organization of the actual prop, you know, process of consuming
it.
Do they do this?
Organize the organization?
Miranda Schene: [00:32:57]
Not only do they organize, but they organized their organizer. Yeah, it’s a
little obsessive, but
Dave Etler: [00:33:02]
I, you know, and I hope that part of that process is realizing that no plan
survives the first engagement with the enemy. So sometimes you have to, you
know be willing to rejigger your plan, but they seek solutions to problems
rather than just waiting for them, waiting for those solutions to, to arrive.
And I think that’s important. They also participate to the
extent that they can. And I don’t want to say that you, you know, I don’t want
to say that. You absolutely must join every student organization and you
absolutely must become a leader of those student organizations and things like
that. That’s gravy.
but they’re the, I think the people who my guess is that the
people who get the most out of medical education actively participate in it
beyond just going to class. Absolutely.
Aline Sandouk: [00:33:49]
I think to add to that, I think the people who get the most out of it are the
people who are making decisions based on their values and what really matters
to them, not what they should do, but what they’re excited to do.
Dave Etler: [00:34:01]
Yeah. And I think this feeds into something that I often say when any, whenever
anybody gives me the chance, which is defining your own metric,
Aline Sandouk: [00:34:08]
Totally. Yeah. What does success look like to you? What are the issues that are
important to you?
Nick Lind: [00:34:13]
And I think that’s going to change after, you know, your first few months of
medical school.
Yeah, exactly. Because you might think that, Oh, I’m going
to be the top of the class and I’m going to. And somebody is going to be, and
they might be able to meet that. But most of the class will not
Miranda Schene: [00:34:30]
fun fact. There’s only one person that could be the top of the class. So if
you’re
Aline Sandouk: [00:34:37]
number one,
Miranda Schene: [00:34:38]
they are can be old. Late
Dave Etler: [00:34:39]
one. Yeah. The, the student I was talking about earlier with not being passive,
right. They’re examining the world around them. Yeah. Which is. Important. they
were noting its shortcomings. they reached out to other students, they made
themselves vulnerable and I am all for this as you know
Aline Sandouk: [00:34:56]
You, you, you do have to try, like, you have to put yourself out there a little
bit to find out, you know, what your environment is like, right.
You are a little bit in the dark until something really big
happens. And then you’re like, Oh, I need to find out the landscape of the
place that I’m in. And it sounds like this person is really in tune with how
they’re feeling like they’re aware of what they need and what they’re looking
for and are aware of the fact like, Oh, I’m not getting it here now.
I’m going to go somewhere else. Yeah. I think I’m curious to
hear more of like, what Eric’s experience is like. Cause I think I cut you off,
but you were, you were kind of getting to the part of talking about how you
slayed this dragon of passivity, I think.
Eric Boeshart: [00:35:35]
Oh yeah. Well I think that, and it sounds like I agreed.
That this person sounds like they’re kind of reprioritizing
is what, needs to happen. And I think that I, you know, in my own kind of
personal, you know, what’s in the last six months, that’s kind of what’s
happening me. And it’s a lot of, it took me a concussion, some academic MCAT
failures to realize, you know, that.
I was, I was passively taking in information, you know, and
then all of a sudden you’re like, you have this kind of come to Jesus moment
of, I need this information to help people, you know, like that’s what I’m here
to do. That was my ultimate goal. And so I think that. It sounds like this
student is kind of in a similar situation where it’s like, okay, what is your
definition of success?
And for me, my success death’s definition has changed. And,
you have to take the steps to find the help that you need, And I think that
kind of like what we were talking about earlier that I think that the, you know,
there’s adversity, but. I agree with the idea that the institution needs to be
able to throw out these, you know, life rafts or the, you know, and they are
available.
It just, it sucks that we, as a student mindset are like,
nah, I, I don’t want to use it.
Miranda Schene: [00:36:54]
I don’t need your boring
life. I’d love to
Dave Etler: [00:36:57]
tease, you know, this, this sort of reminds me of a conversation I recently had
with my mom. you know, they’re getting older, they need a little bit more help.
And I was trying to suggest some things and my mother said, Oh, we’re not that
kind of people.
Yep. And the two things, things about that, I’m like ma. You
are now. Okay. And number two, I’m that kind of person? What do you, what, what
kind of person are you talking about?
Miranda Schene: [00:37:26]
It’s actually kind of reminds me of, I went to a movie screening last night
outdoors. it was out by the river is
Dave Etler: [00:37:34]
really pretty good. I get to stop like, like putting asterisks after the things
we do, like
Miranda Schene: [00:37:41]
six feet away,
Dave Etler: [00:37:42]
Jeff really was wearing a bow and I was outside. And I was bathed
Nick Lind: [00:37:47]
in hands. I
Dave Etler: [00:37:48]
was wrapped in plastic.
Miranda Schene: [00:37:54]
You’re fine. well I was at this movie screening and at the end of it one of the
guys said something where it’s like the world needs people who are willing to
reinvent themselves. That’s a paraphrase. but that was one, I mean, the
documentary as a whole was a tad pretentious, but it’s okay. I liked it.
but that was one of the things that sort of stuck with me
where it’s like, you know, that’s, people will get stuck in this thing of like,
no, this is just the person I am. And all you have to do is be like, well, why,
why are you that way? And then just, if you can’t come up with a good reason,
then. Be willing to change that.
Like you are not defined in a single
Aline Sandouk: [00:38:28]
aspect. Yeah. I saw a quote somewhere
recently on the internet. I can’t remember where, but it would have been a
Brene. Brown quote, I’m not sure. She she’s like a big vulnerability
researcher.
but the quote was something like a lot of people. and in
this case, as I think they were talking about like relatives, Choose to see you
as the version, they had the most power over and they refused to recognize your
personal growth, you know, into a person they can’t control.
And they get really annoyed around that. And I haven’t been
able to forget it cause I. I mean, I’ve never articulated it that way, but I
have personally experienced that and to piggyback off what Miranda is saying,
don’t just be afraid to change who you are and reinvent yourself and kind of
move the goalposts round, but also get away from people who don’t let you
change.
Yes. Get away from the people who were like, no, get back in
this box that I put you in. I don’t like how you’re trying to squeeze out of my
control and that’s okay. Like I think as people get older and this is harder to
see, I think when you’re under 25, but when you get to be like, I think in your
thirties and forties, you realize that like, Friendships come and go.
Like, just because someone’s your best friend now, and
they’re not going to be your best friend forever, but maybe you step away and
then you come back to them in a few years. Like when your life priorities
realign, you know, and things like that. So everything changes. So feel free to
change with it. Oh, wow.
Dave Etler: [00:39:55]
I was thinking back to To my childhood.
Aline Sandouk: [00:39:57]
You had to read it to me moment where I
Miranda Schene: [00:40:00]
farmhouse.
Nick Lind: [00:40:18]
You know, I think for the first-year medical student, who’s struggling
academically.
you know, I would encourage them to keep at it because this
information is all coming back again. Like I, I just took step two yesterday.
and you know, like, step one, step two, like all these things that you learn,
they just keep coming back. So if you’re not getting it now, you’re not going
to get it.
Then you put the time in to truly understand, you know,
where, where you’re missing it. And so you know, if you have that test that you
either failed or did poorly on, or didn’t quite do where you wanted, you know,
score where you wanted to be. You, you kind of have to keep at that material.
Dave Etler: [00:40:58]
It’s not so important.
I think what you’re saying is it’s not so important that you
got a bad grade. Yes. What’s important. Is that you, you use that information
to inform what you did next. Yes.
Aline Sandouk: [00:41:12]
Yes. And also like, look at the information said, okay, what of this really
matters to my future? I’ll never forget this. There’s a doctor who used to work
at student health.
And I remember I went to her as my doctor and. Because I was
a med student, he came up and she was like, Elaine, let me tell you when I was
in med school, you know, sh she’s an OB now. And she was like, when I was in a
med school, I didn’t learn the foot, not a big deal. I didn’t learn about the
spleen, not a big deal.
I became an OB. So ovaries became critically important for
me. So try to look at it that way you don’t have, like, they’re only the only
two specialties in medicine where you really do need to know everything is
family med and emergency med and everything else. You’re going to lose, like
not lose, but like six.
You’re going
Dave Etler: [00:41:53]
to step away from it a little bit
Aline Sandouk: [00:41:56]
away and make room for really in-depth knowledge for the stuff that’s really
important for the people you see. So, yep.
Dave Etler: [00:42:03]
There is one thing I wanted to say, you know, schools are going to be proactive
by offering things like mental health support system or services tutoring.
A structure for mentoring, learning, our learning
communities are important. but it’s up to you to seek those things out. Again,
we’re getting back to that active student.
I’m going to punch you for gesturing
with me. ,
Miranda Schene: [00:42:26]
I swear to God that one was actually unintentional. That was early.
Empathizing. I was, cause I was like, I was like, all right, get in.
Dave’s head. What is he saying?
Dave Etler: [00:42:39]
Or like firing. But the point is like, we, you know, the schools go to a lot of
trouble to do this and you have to be willing to sort of take advantage of
them. I mean, yes, your school may reach out to you and say, Oh, I see you got
a bad grade on this test. Let us know if you need any help.
Sorry,
Miranda Schene: [00:42:58]
that just made me think of like, you’re paying for it.
Aline Sandouk: [00:43:00]
I was about to say I’m a little pissed
Miranda Schene: [00:43:03]
off.
Aline Sandouk: [00:43:05]
such a great call back, but I was thinking, I was like, you’re paying like
Doreen go use Doreen, you know, any of the other people, but yeah, you’re
Miranda Schene: [00:43:14]
ups. You want to put Dorian into context?
Dave Etler: [00:43:16]
Cause I feel like that’s the head.
Yeah,
Miranda Schene: [00:43:20]
I can just imagine some poor like med student, like Chicago and it’d be like
Yeah. I mean,
the
Aline Sandouk: [00:43:39]
Doreen.
Miranda Schene: [00:43:40]
Yeah,
I know that, you know, like you have to be willing to say in
those cases,
Dave Etler: [00:43:44] what other people
think I’m afraid. I’m afraid of what the Dean or my peers
will think,
Dave Etler: [00:43:49]
who the heck cares, what they think you have a right to seek resolution to your
part.
Aline Sandouk: [00:43:53]
And you know what, for anyone who cause something, I think Eric brought up that
was so perfectly articulated is that you’re really kind of expected to, just to
jump right into being vulnerable.
Whereas for a lot of people they’ve never been vulnerable
and that’s really scary. And so. Like, but no one ever teaches you like what
the baby steps are. So like, I want to share a little bit of advice here.
There’s a lot of safety in curiosity, confusion and concern. Like in that
order, like whenever I have to have a difficult conversation, I never come at
it from like, here’s how you are letting me down.
Here’s how I’m unsatisfied. I always come at it with like,
Hey, I’m curious about this. Can we talk more about that? And then that’s
number one, it puts the person you’re talking to much less on the defensive and
keeps expectations low. Like you’re having kind of a very equal conversation
with like very low stakes.
So yeah. I don’t know, someone told me that once I’m like,
Hey, there’s a lot of safety and confusion. I was like, Oh, okay. I like, I
like that a lot or curiosity
Dave Etler: [00:44:53]
if this, if this fits into that, I mean, kind of what I was thinking of, and
this is what I’ve been trying to sort of remind myself over and over and over
again in recent years.
When you have these interactions, if you come at them with
love and respect, correct. That’s part of it. I think
Aline Sandouk: [00:45:07]
respect always love. I don’t know. Like,
Dave Etler: [00:45:10]
I mean, love in the sense of like, I’m, you know, I understand, I understand
that things are different for you. Yeah. Yeah. They’re not the same as they are
for me.
Let’s talk about this. Yeah. There’s
Eric Boeshart: [00:45:22]
an understanding there,
Dave Etler: [00:45:24]
right? Yeah. I know some people are wor you know, when they’re having trouble
worried about the confidentiality of seeking out mental health services from
your medical. Cool. Hmm. That’s hard. Yeah. do it anyway. Yeah. Like,
I
Dave Etler: [00:45:36]
mean, ask the question in your first meeting with a counselor.
Well, how are you going to treat this information? What are
you going to do with this information going to give you, even before you begin
talking about your problems, they’re going to say, and you down in a, in a, in
a discussion, they’re going to sit you down and say, so what brings you here
today? And the very first thing, if you’re worried about this, the very first
thing that can come out of your mouth isn’t well, I haven’t having all these
problems, the very first thing that could come out of your mouth before you
reveal all that.
Is I’m afraid of any repercussions that might come from
sitting down with you. and these are normal fears and they know it. So let the
counselor address those fears in that first session. And remember that they do
have a legal obligation for confidentiality, the same obligation that you have
as a healthcare professional, by the way.
Yeah, but make them work for your openness. That’s totally
fair.
Aline Sandouk: [00:46:25]
Absolutely. And
that’s, that’s good advice in life in general.
Dave Etler: [00:46:31]
for it
Aline Sandouk: [00:46:31]
I thought
you’re joking, but I’m like, yeah, hell yeah. You know, people, people
should deserve to hear the details of your life.
That that’s, that’s rich and that’s intimate and that’s. You
know, that has a value. And sometimes people will hear these like very personal
stories and be like, Oh, that sucks. And then what’s for lunch. And you’re
like, I just opened my heart up to yeah.
Miranda Schene: [00:46:54]
Or like, that’s almost more devastating than them using it against you as being
like, Oh, wow.
That’s some really deep personal information. Yeah, exactly.
Get some coffee, like, Aw, come on.
Dave Etler: [00:47:08]
One more thing about that piece of advice is, okay, so they’ve reassured you
right. Feel free to say, okay, I’ll talk to you next week about this. Take
yourself, take a minute to sort of internalize that information and process it.
And then you can come back next week and then start the real work if that’s
what you want.
Miranda Schene: [00:47:26]
It is a thousand percent okay. To be selfish when you’re asking for like
personal help, when you’re asking for help, it is a thousand, because I think
sometimes we have this.
Thing of being like, well, I came to them, even though I’m
being vulnerable, it’s still like, Oh, it’s their time. That is their job. They
are there for you. You can be selfish that is allowed and is permissible and
acceptable and great.
Aline Sandouk: [00:47:47]
Yeah. And can I add to that with one more thing? Nope.
Nick Lind: [00:47:53]
Dave
Aline Sandouk: [00:47:53]
forgot his place up in
Miranda Schene: [00:48:01]
I don’t need to, I’m just back here watching popcorn,
Eric Boeshart: [00:48:04]
try to assert myself.
Aline Sandouk: [00:48:08]
We’re still friends at school. it’s okay to put, you know, eggs in different baskets.
So like feel free to shop around. And I it’s something I was thinking about is.
A lot of med schools sometimes feel detached from like the main Institute, if
they’re part of an institution with an undergrad and like other, like, you
know, faculties, other schools.
so like something I never thought of doing is like talking
to the university counseling services. Yeah. They don’t talk to the med school
counseling services. Yeah. So feel free to shop privately. That’s also very
hard because a lot of psychiatrist, psychologist have full patient loads.
They’re not taking on new patients, but like, yeah.
But look for that chemistry, like Miranda was saying like,
Take it with a grain of salt. Don’t immediately close the door on someone who
gives you a you know, a not perfect vibe immediately, but you do need that
chemistry. And if it’s not there, then you’re never really going to feel
comfortable
Miranda Schene: [00:48:54]
opening up.
Yeah. And it’s perfectly fine. Even if you’re a med student
to seek help outside of the med school. Like if you, if obviously if you have
the resources to but like that is also allowed, you don’t have to be restricted
to
Dave Etler: [00:49:07]
which your insurance
Miranda Schene: [00:49:07]
cover that. mine would cover it, I believe through UHC. So I could go to like
the like UHC psychologist, psychiatrist stuff.
And I think it covers some, like, I think blue cross blue
shield. There are a few therapists in the area that also, cause I’ve looked
into this there are a few therapists in the area that would also take my
insurance. So it’s possible.
Aline Sandouk: [00:49:27]
Yeah. I mean the point the Miranda is bringing up. Is that check your coverage?
Yes, absolutely make sure.
Miranda Schene: [00:49:35]
Because some insurances will cover mental health care. Some only cover 50%.
Some won’t cover it, but a lot will, and they might cover it, but only for
specific providers that specific locations or for only certain types of things.
Dave Etler: [00:49:50]
Yeah. Should
Eric Boeshart: [00:49:51]
I just say something real quick? You know, speaking from personal experience,
if you, in that kind of a situation as a med student, you know, obviously in
our context as the short coat, but, you know, just make sure that you’re
looking at resources that are available to you and it’s, it’s better to use the
resources than not use them much.
Like big said, act like you’re paying.
Aline Sandouk: [00:50:10]
Yeah, totally agree. Yep. Excellent. All right
Eric Boeshart: [00:50:14]
guys.
Aline Sandouk: [00:50:14]
Can I share one more thought? Absolutely. I was reading about Audrey Lorde
recently who is she was a black lesbian activist from the seventies who I think
had breast cancer, had a one-sided mastectomy. And like, I guess at that time
it was like even more stigmatized to not have a double mastectomy or get an
implant.
And she was like, no, I’m not going to protect the world
from my, you know, one missing boop. You have like really forced people to
accept her as she is. And I really admired that. And I think something I was
reading about her is that in a capitalist system, self care is almost
subversive and that really resonates like taking care of yourself as
revolutionary, the most.
Right. So
Miranda Schene: [00:50:57]
treat, I agree. Like there’s a certain element to where you’re expected to have
earned it. There’s, there’s a concept of like, if I work hard during the week
that I’ve earned a day off or I’ve earned, like treating myself by going out,
it’s like, you don’t have to, you could just do that if you need it.
Like, if you’re like, I haven’t worked that hard, but I’ve,
I really need a break. And it’s
like,
Dave Etler: [00:51:15]
I see this to people all the time. Like people are like, Oh, it’s come up recently
in the context of vaccinations. Like not necessarily the urn thing, but that.
Oh, I can’t do that. I have something to do at work.
geez. It’s not, you know, the thing at work is
Dave Etler: [00:51:32]
not that
important, you know, let your coworkers to handle it.
Aline Sandouk: [00:51:40]
Your, your job, your boss would not die for you.
Miranda Schene: [00:51:47]
Yeah.
Dave Etler: [00:51:48]
Yeah. Well, I guess you have anything else you want to say before we close the
show?
It’s good to be
Miranda Schene: [00:51:52]
back.
Aline Sandouk: [00:51:56]
I
am happy to have you
Dave Etler: [00:51:57]
here. That’s our show though. Got to go. I gotta go eat lunch.
I’m
Miranda Schene: [00:52:01]
hungry. That’s fair. I think my
Aline Sandouk: [00:52:02]
boss, he acts like we don’t pay for him.
Miranda Schene: [00:52:06]
My gosh
for us
Miranda Schene: [00:52:12]
a lot, the only things in your lives, how dare you have to eat lunch
Aline Sandouk: [00:52:18]
if it’ll make you a better, Dave. Okay.
Dave Etler: [00:52:23]
There’s so much work to be done
Miranda Schene: [00:52:26]
in case anyone is wondering, playing along at home. That’s called hypocrisy
Dave Etler: [00:52:33]
guys. Thank you for being on the show with me today. Thanks, Dave. Thanks. This
is fun. And what kind of slug would I be if I didn’t? Thank you. Chef coats for
making us a part of your week. If you’re new here and you like what you heard
today, subscribe to our show.
Wherever fine podcasts are, podcasts are available. Our
editors are AJ Chowdhury and Erik Bozart or.
Aline Sandouk: [00:52:50]
Take your time.
Sound it out.
Miranda Schene: [00:52:55]
It’s actually my favorite editor. I’m a very big fan of their work because
there is our marketing
Dave Etler: [00:53:00]
coordinator. The show’s made possible by a generous donation by Carver college
of medicine, student government, and ongoing support from the writing and
humanities program.
Our music is by Dr. Voxin canvas fear. I’m Dave, Etler
saying don’t let the bastards get you down. Talk to you in one week.
Bye.
365
Active Medical Student
Dave Etler: [00:00:00]
Welcome back to the short code podcast, a production of the university of Iowa
Carver college of medicine. I’m Dave Etler. with me in the studio today it’s a
man who was as cute as a bug’s ear. It’s MP3, Nicklin, a bug’s ear. How bug’s
ear she flies beyond fates control. It’s MD/PhD student Miranda scheme.
I’d rather doubt an article than question what she delivers.
It’s MD/PhD student Alene, sand Duke. Very fair. And joining me in the form of
ones and zeros. It’s the jammy, just bit of jam
Eric. Bozart. Feeling
Eric Boeshart: [00:01:11]
pretty one today. Over the zero? Yeah.
Nick Lind: [00:01:13]
Okay. That’s good. One.
we’re also live streaming on our Facebook group, the short
code student lounge.
Dave Etler: [00:01:20]
So why not check us out there? You can see all the things I say that we edit
out of the show. Um, say like a week earlier than we posted, if that’s what
the, I mean, if you’re into that If you
Aline Sandouk: [00:01:28]
just can’t live without us.
Dave Etler: [00:01:32]
Well, it’s also nice. You can participate. So that’s know hipster
Miranda Schene: [00:01:35]
vibes, being able to, when all your friends are listening to podcasts, you’d be
like, I already knew that.
I know that I know the punchline to that joke. That’s
Dave Etler: [00:01:42]
right. I’m not even gonna make you sign up for a Patrion to do it, you know?
Cause that’s all right. That’s how giving I am
Miranda Schene: [00:01:48]
also because he doesn’t know how to set up a patriotic,
Dave Etler: [00:01:53]
main reason that I bet you could figure it out someday. today’s show sponsored
by panacea financial.
The digital bank created for doctors by doctors. I’m really
happy to have them back. So we’ll talk more about them later on the show as for
today’s. Topic, you guys don’t even know. I didn’t even tell you about today’s
topic. You know, why in the dark, you know why I didn’t tell you about today’s
Miranda Schene: [00:02:17]
topic?
Has he
we’ve known you too long for us to pull that wool over our
eyes.
Dave Etler: [00:02:25]
There is a student I heard about recently who was running up against a few
problems. the M one wall, ah, you guys all immediately were like, ah, Does the
ring ring a bell for you? But tell me about the .
Miranda Schene: [00:02:37]
Well, I feel like, I mean, I don’t know the specific student’s exact problem,
but for me, the on wall was sort of when I realized, Oh no, I’m in trouble
here.
And this is a new experience it’s for me
Dave Etler: [00:02:50]
in trouble in terms
Miranda Schene: [00:02:52]
of in trouble in terms of like academics and the fact that. Like for a lot of
people coming into my, and this again was my experience. I quite good
academically I don’t mean to brag to anybody here. I’m quite good. humble,
humble brag.
Yeah, that wasn’t really humble though. That was just a
straight up brag. I appreciate it though. but then once you hit a certain
amount of med school and the pace has picked up, and you’re now into territory
that you have never seen before and suddenly this feeling of, Oh, this. Like I
am struggling and I haven’t in my previous academic career had this type of
struggle before, so I’m both struggling and I don’t really know how to deal
with it.
Yeah.
Dave Etler: [00:03:29]
What, what about y’all’s M M one wall. Was there something for you guys?
Aline Sandouk: [00:03:34]
White coat
imposter syndrome started at the white
Aline Sandouk: [00:03:46]
Yeah, no, I think yeah, I, of course I know the wall.
Everyone knows the wall who doesn’t know the wall. I did
notice everyone hits it at different points, I think. And that’s an interesting
observation. The first one. And sometimes the second, some people don’t hit the
wall until the second semester, but yeah, it really dawns on you that you’re in
a whole new world and these are whole new stakes.
and yeah, I don’t know.
Miranda Schene: [00:04:09]
Do we hit the wall? I students MSTP any Haiti’s town fans in our listenership
are going nuts right now. Okay.
Nick Lind: [00:04:17]
Yeah. You know, it’s I think it’s because it’s such a new experience to any of
us. Cause you know, The amount of material that you go through during that,
for, during all of med school, to be honest, but especially that first semester
I mean, you’re basically covering everything and that foundations class that
you covered.
And all of your preparation for medical school. And, and so
you just covered it all and you know, one semester and half a semester and half
a semester, and you even expounded on some topics that you didn’t even. No.
Anything about
Aline Sandouk: [00:04:54]
all the extra credit stuff from undergrad is now core material. Like all of the
stuff that you thought you were going to do for like, you know, brownie points
to like suck up to the teacher.
Like, no, you have to know all of that too. So yeah.
Eric, what
Eric Boeshart: [00:05:07]
about you? Yeah, yeah. I, a hundred percent agree. It’s. I think kind of what
Nick was saying where it’s like, so I did, I did a master’s program before
coming here. It was just kind of like a, one-year kind of doing some more of
the hard science type stuff.
Cause my background’s in engineering. And so you, you know,
I went through that master’s program. You’d take things like, you know, I did
an anatomy course. I did, you know, some pretty in depth Physiology stuff. And
then you come into med school and like, you cover that within the first two
weeks. And you’re just like, okay, so that’s an entire master’s degree.
So
Dave Etler: [00:05:42]
expedited. Yeah. I think there’s also for this student. It was all that. Yeah.
And then I also think that they were concerned. They’re concerned about the
hidden curriculum that they started to notice. Yes, this is so the hidden
curriculum. If you’re not, if you don’t know what that is, I guess I would call
it the,
the part,
Dave Etler: [00:06:03]
the thing that isn’t actually part of the curriculum, but that you’re learning
anyway.
Like how to be like how to be a doctor. Sure. Like what it
means to be a doctor in terms of things like professionalism. Yeah.
Aline Sandouk: [00:06:17]
Yeah. It’s it’s office politics for, for anyone who’s ever worked in an office,
right? Like don’t use Linda’s mug. You never use Linda’s mom. She’ll lose her
mind.
But
Dave Etler: [00:06:29]
it’s uh, you know, things like, you know, how to, how to act like a doctor.
Yeah. How to project that image. What is that image?
Nick Lind: [00:06:38]
I think that really picks up once you hit clinical clerkships, like in you, you
know, you’re working with these people and you’re, you know, within the first
day of working with them, you’re trying to figure out how they tick. Because
like, you know, if you kind of do the wrong thing, you’re going to get called
out pretty quickly.
Depending on who the person
Aline Sandouk: [00:06:58]
is, figuring out where their sharp edges are and then how to stay away from
them.
Miranda Schene: [00:07:04]
A lot of times when we talk about the hidden curriculum, we talk about it as
well, in terms of like relating to patients in a way that isn’t, you’re my
friend, I’m having a conversation, been in a way that is you are the patient,
and I need to figure out what’s wrong with you.
And that, that goes through things like anatomy lab, where
you’re, you may be doing a cadaver dissection for the first time and having to
deal with that, like emotionally, as well as learning all the material. Yeah.
And then actually figuring out how to break a patient story down into
constituent components, which you are then graded on.
Yeah.
Dave Etler: [00:07:33]
Yeah. But I think it’s also about how to look like a doctor, you know, and,
That there are problems with this because not everybody looks the same way.
Yeah. That’s
Aline Sandouk: [00:07:44]
an interesting conversation. I think Danny had by a lot of people in healthcare
right now,
Miranda Schene: [00:07:49]
like th this is the problem with the hidden curriculum is that it’s hidden.
It’s never anything. I don’t think it’s ever been something
that’s been intentionally taught. It’s just sort of generally accepted that
odd. This is also things that people develop through their
medical surgical time,
Dave Etler: [00:08:01]
sort of like the culture. It’s learning the culture of medicine, which means
Miranda Schene: [00:08:06]
it’s, which isn’t only influenced by things like unconscious bias.
Right.
Dave Etler: [00:08:10]
Insanely it isn’t always great. The culture of medicine, you know, there, there
is no culture that is always great. and medicine has its difficulties to, you
know, basically, you know, how do, how do. You know, what are the aspects of
the culture of medicine that I’m talking about? Like hard work all the time.
grades is the most important thing. Yeah.
Aline Sandouk: [00:08:29]
looks do matter though. I don’t know if that’s
Dave Etler: [00:08:31]
where you’re, it’s not that they don’t matter. it’s just that they are perhaps
matter more than they need.
Aline Sandouk: [00:08:39]
Oh, I did say they mattered. I don’t know if you misheard me. Oh, okay. Yes,
Dave Etler: [00:08:42]
but maybe I it up. Is that because
Aline Sandouk: [00:08:47]
you said a bad
Dave Etler: [00:08:49]
part of the hidden curriculum don’t, don’t swear on the podcast.
Miranda Schene: [00:08:57]
Don’t swear in front of children. I mean, in front of patients
Dave Etler: [00:09:02]
repel against that,
Aline Sandouk: [00:09:03]
you know, I remember something in my first year with Ellen Franklin, it was
like a small group and someone was like,
Dave Etler: [00:09:10]
Oh yeah, Are I guess they would, they used to call it the performance-based
assessment.
Aline Sandouk: [00:09:14]
Yeah. She’s like the clinical skills assessment director for folks not at
SeaComm, but I was in a small group and she was like, people were asking, you
know, w what are the expectations for like, how we should look, how we should
dress?
Should it be like interview day? Which, you know,
interviews, people are wearing full suits a little much. And she was like,
well, you know, as long as you look clean and you’ve run a brush through your
hair. And I thought that that was such like reasonable advice. And then I. Like
I grew up a little and I realized that like I was, some people don’t consider
like certain types of ethnic hair, clean looking.
Right. So some people don’t consider certain. Looks or
certain ways of dressing as like clean
Dave Etler: [00:09:52]
cut. Yeah. So like when, when somebody says run a brush through your hair, what
does that really mean? I think that’s part of the hidden whose hair, right?
That’s part of the hidden curriculum. I mean, there’s all kinds of problems
with this hidden curriculum.
precisely because it is, it is hidden. I think
Aline Sandouk: [00:10:07]
it’s changing for the better though. And people are talking about it. People
are talking about talking about it, and I think patients are the. The
demographics of patients is changing too, because I think historically doctors
acted in such a way that was help patients expect, like patients expected to
come to the doctor and maybe I’m wrong.
I’m I don’t mean to generalize, not a hundred percent, but I
think patients came to the doctor expecting to be told what was going to happen
and what they should do. And they liked it that way. And then, you know, the
next generation came along and was like, no, I want to be. Partners in care
with you. I don’t want to be your employee in my care.
And I think that’s where the older guard of medicine is
like, what is this? No, no, no. I tell you what to do, but like now we’re
coming up and like we’re a little bit more, I guess, like culturally congruent
with that. Right. So
Dave Etler: [00:10:56]
there’s more to the hidden curriculum than we haven’t yet discussed. For
instance, There is a S this, this particular student had observed the social
currency that circulates around things like how much you study, how well you
score on tests you know striving to get honors grades, as opposed to striving,
to pass your course and striving to learn.
Right. Which is an important distinction.
Nick Lind: [00:11:20]
Yeah, no,
Dave Etler: [00:11:21]
that’s very true. So F so for instance, like one of the things this person
noticed was you know, professors will let you know, after the exam, what the
average was. On the exam. and I’m not a professional, I’m not, I don’t, I’m
certainly not an expert on educational theory.
but I think to some extent it’s sort of a defensive maneuver
by the professor who needs to prove to the population of medical students, that
it was a successful exam. Yeah. Yup. that it was valid in some way. but what
this student found is that those averages were a source of pressure.
did I perform to the average and the message there being
that your only value. Is the grade that you get. and by the way, push back at
me, if you think, if you think I’m full of shit and anything
Miranda Schene: [00:12:01]
that I say, can I say very quickly? I actually still remember the first time I
scored below the class average on an exam, because like the first like
foundations in the first MD/PhD I was still like pretty doing okay.
And then it hit like the spring semester and I was like, Oh
crap. And I still remember it. The best thing I ever did was I found. Friend.
And my friends were not in these lights. You must get honors or you will die
type people. They were the chill people. And like, we both had a conversation
and she was like, Oh yeah.
I also scored below the average. And it was like, and we
pointed out to each other that like 50% of the class got below the average. And
we’re not a bad student for coming below the average. There can be a
Dave Etler: [00:12:41]
challenge to find that, that, friend. Yeah,
Aline Sandouk: [00:12:44]
it, it requires a little bit of vulnerability and it’s game.
Like vulnerability, chicken, and you’re like, Oh, and then
they give a little, and then you give a little, and then you get to the truth.
Cause it’s, it’s hard. Like that’s not information you can just come out with
and be like, I done failed that test. And then if no one was soliciting that
information or if no one is comfortable sharing that, you know, you’re now in
this weird vulnerability black hole.
But yeah, those are real. I could not agree more. I love
those moments in med school and just like in life, in general, when you’re
like. Yeah, that was hard. And the other person’s like, yes, yes. That was hard
and hard guys. And you both know exactly what you’re talking about.
Nick Lind: [00:13:22]
Yeah. I was just going to say, you know, you take a bunch of people who score
in the top 10% You know, all through their lives and you put them in a room
together and give them the same test. They, they still distribute into a
bell-curve where you still have people at the bottom and you have people at the
top and you have almost everybody else in the middle.
and that’s that’s med school. I mean that that’s everything
in life. And it it’s difficult to come because you’re used to being in that top
10% or higher. And it’s difficult to come to the fact that, Hey, maybe I’m
average or maybe. I’m below average because you know, that exists too. And uh,
Dave Etler: [00:13:57]
I feel comfortable being below it
I’m above average, in some
Miranda Schene: [00:14:05]
ways you’re in the you’re in the first core tile in our hearts,
in the
Eric Boeshart: [00:14:11]
box and whisker plot,
Dave Etler: [00:14:14]
the error bars are just very large. Um,
Eric Boeshart: [00:14:17]
I felt like, you know, we’re talking about averages and stuff.
I would even go a step further to say, like, I feel like it.
In my experience we didn’t hit that
point where I think a majority of people were able to say, like, be open about
like, Hey, I didn’t do well on that test. Like, we didn’t hit that until
probably this semester before clinicals.
Dave Etler: [00:14:36]
Interesting,
Eric Boeshart: [00:14:36]
where it’s just like, you know, I feel like most people were open about that.
Dave Etler: [00:14:40]
Does that ring true to you guys? Or did that happen earlier? Do you think. I,
it kinda, it
Miranda Schene: [00:14:46]
kinda depends. Like I, I do remember in one of our learning communities, we
would almost always have like group D not official group D brief, but informal
group debrief, or it all just like come collapsed on the couches and be like,
well, that sucked.
And that just sort of like opened the floor to be, and it
wasn’t necessarily like I scored this or I scored this. It was never, no one
asked about grades, but it was just like that. Was rough. And that gives you
exactly. That gives you like no information about how that it, maybe it was
rough, but they still got like a hundred percent.
You don’t know, but either way it’s still like commiserating
about that was really hard. And that was tough. And now, wow. I did not even
think that was going to be on there, but Oh, I guess this person really loves
stomach ulcers. I just got more flashbacks. I
think.
Nick Lind: [00:15:29]
I agree. I think the class is pretty good, even from early on.
Like if you. Did poorly, there was at least for me, like I
had a group of people I could easily go talk to. They were pretty open with
like, Oh yeah. Like that was, that was rough. And I think that was really
common. I think I
Dave Etler: [00:15:47]
should say, I should have said before, you know, and like, I’m getting, you
know, when I, when I say I heard about the student, I’ve heard about them
secondhand,, if the student happens to, you know, hear this, I want to say that
I’m not like, yeah, I want to say that. I, well, I just want to say that this
is, you know, th that, this is important to talk about this particular.
Student, apparently had tried discussing with other students
and felt some resistance to that vulnerability. And I was intrigued when you,
Eric said that it took until just before going out into clinicals to open up
you, it kind of makes sense
Eric Boeshart: [00:16:21]
to come into my own realization of getting a pulse on where the.
we were You know, like I agree with Nick, like I did have a
group of people that, you know, you could, I could go to and be like, Hey, I,
you know, I’ve got a general pulse on my group, but I didn’t realize that that
spread out farther to the class until probably before clinics.
Miranda Schene: [00:16:40]
And, and this unfortunately is, and I know we’re all sick of talking about how
COVID has impacted medical education, but that’s a big problem where it’s like,
it’s become essentially, like I’ve only now been seeing sort of like students
back in the communities.
And even then I imagine socialization is relatively down. so
it’s hard to get that pulse on where your classes at it’s hard to get that
collected. Like. Woof kind of moment where everyone sort of collects and shares
and is a bit, and sort of debrief with each other.
Dave Etler: [00:17:07]
Cause even if exams were in person, you’d sort of run away from each other and
go there.
Miranda Schene: [00:17:11]
So like we were just talking, I sat down and I instinctively picked the
farthest chair away in the corner just because that’s how like, all right, six
feet where it, we got to be distanced kind of thing.
Dave Etler: [00:17:21]
I
Miranda Schene: [00:17:22]
I’m sorry. I just want to run away from me, Dave. We’re actually trying to get
away from you.
Aline Sandouk: [00:17:26]
Miranda’s
Miranda Schene: [00:17:26]
just being nice. I’m leaning back as that goes on, just getting as much
bullying. He’s going to get
Aline Sandouk: [00:17:39]
some really bad mental health problems. If you don’t let them know, we’re
joking. Once
Miranda Schene: [00:17:43]
in a while, I haven’t been on the podcast in so long. I forgot how much of it
is just managing
Aline Sandouk: [00:17:48]
Dave’s
emotions.
Dave Etler: [00:17:53]
I guess the upshot from what I understood is, and I think I’m paraphrasing
here. So I hope I get it right. They felt kind of unprotected. and they’re, you
know, they they’re sort of mental health was feeling precarious because of all
this and, and, but they were afraid to seek help. Sure about it. in the form
of, in the form of, you know, things like counseling yeah.
Aline Sandouk: [00:18:16]
In their defense around some people they should be afraid. No, that’s not to
say,
Miranda Schene: [00:18:22]
hang
Dave Etler: [00:18:22]
on, hang on.
Aline Sandouk: [00:18:25]
that’s all to say that like, Be extremely careful who you share that
information with because it’s a 50, 50 chance that you’re sharing that with
someone who’s going to go, Hey, I’m really sorry to hear that.
Let me help you. And then the other 50% are going to go, all
right, great information to have in my pocket. And I’m not joking about that.
That’s something to be very mindful of, but like before you go spilling all
your beans, like. Throw a crumb out there and see how they react and, you know,
before you start really opening up.
So
Dave Etler: [00:18:57]
I would argue that, I mean, I mean, first of all, th this hesitation brings up
two questions for me personally. should the institution protect you? is there
any value, I mean, yes, to some extent the institution should protect you, but
is there any, any value long-term in being unprotected? So that’s question
number one.
Aline Sandouk: [00:19:15]
What type of protection?
Dave Etler: [00:19:17]
I mean, I don’t know, like you know, because I, because I wasn’t able to ask
follow up questions.
Miranda Schene: [00:19:21]
I’m sorry, but may I throw out a metaphor before I forget? Yes, I believe yes
and no. The difference between like chucking someone in the deep end and then
checking someone in the deep end, followed by chucking them a life ring.
You know, where it’s like
Dave Etler: [00:19:37]
chucking them in the deep end and then throwing some chum
Miranda Schene: [00:19:41]
because I exactly like, I think there is definitely value in having to sort of
like, In being vulnerable and being able to like getting that challenge and
having to sort of climb out. But like, there should be a ladder where it’s
like, if you’re like, okay, I have tried and I cannot, I’ve re I’m mixing my
metaphors, but I have tried and I cannot climb out of this hole.
It’s like, okay. Deploy the emergency ladder. Cause like to
meet you halfway. Yeah.
Aline Sandouk: [00:20:06]
Adversity is character building. Right. And I’ll never forget this. This, I
don’t know where I heard this, but I remember reading somewhere that like trees
need when to grow. Otherwise they die. Like that’s so profound. Like they need
the push of wind to kind of push the sapling down to motivate it, to grow big
and strong.
Like,
Dave Etler: [00:20:24]
but they don’t need a daily hurricane
Aline Sandouk: [00:20:28]
mercy. It doesn’t work if it’s like lethal. Right. It has to be up to a point
where like, kind of like Miranda is saying that someone will step in and be
like, okay, Hey, you strolled enough. Well, let’s bring you in and then we can
talk some more.
And I think
Nick Lind: [00:20:43]
what’s that Miranda
Yeah. Yeah. You know,
I
Nick Lind: [00:21:08]
think in pre-clinicals too, it’s important to kind of have some of those
situations where you’re struggling and, and kind of pushing your limits because
once you get to the clinical side of things, You’re you’re much more
independent. You have to like, not only balance the academic side, because
you’re going to have an exam at the end on everything that you need to know for
that clerkship, but you also have to be learning all of the practical hands-on
things for that clerkship at the same time.
And you’re going to be pushed even harder than you were in
pre-clinicals. because there’s, there’s just a ton that you need to know. And
if you’re not setting yourself up, you know, from, from the beginning, it’s
going to be even more difficult. So I think the institution does need to push
you. I do think that there needs to be safety nets, and I think that there are
here you know, you’re going to get that email orcall or whatever from the
counseling center about, you know, are you okay?
Like What can we do to help you academically and, and you
know, which
Miranda Schene: [00:22:07]
I think sometimes it might hurt more than it helps or it’s like, I think I’m
doing okay.
right.
Aline Sandouk: [00:22:17]
But I’m sorry, Dave, did you want to ask
a
Miranda Schene: [00:22:19]
follow up questions? Right? Do you want to play on your phone? I’m trying
Dave Etler: [00:22:22]
to just make sure that
Aline Sandouk: [00:22:30]
The question was,
Dave Etler: [00:22:31]
I have no idea if the live stream worked or not I’ve know, seems to be working,
but then it says you were
Aline Sandouk: [00:22:37]
well, we’re having fun. That’s all that matters.
Miranda Schene: [00:22:40] Voice cracked.
I guess the other thing,
Dave Etler: [00:22:48]
the other question that it brings up to me is why are people still afraid of
seeking help?
Aline Sandouk: [00:22:52]
Because people are still making other people feel bad. That’s why there are
still those, sorry. Blood heads out there that are like, look at this loser.
Pardon my
French. No, no, no.
Dave Etler: [00:23:04]
There’s that there is that. I think there’s that risk.
Nick Lind: [00:23:06]
I think, you know, another aspect of it is our society, our culture, our, the
way that we, especially as medical students, the way that. We’re raised. We, we
often didn’t need help, you know, from Trump high school on the college, you
know, some of us who might’ve had a career before med school
you know
Nick Lind: [00:23:27]
we were able to do it.
Well, without the help. And then you get here and it’s,
it’s,
you know, the heart of one of the harder things I’ve ever
done, you know here in med school.
Nick Lind: [00:23:36]
And I think, you know, when you start hitting your limits you may be, have done
that before, but not quite as often and is like, It doesn’t stop here
and
Nick Lind: [00:23:48]
makes it back. Yeah. Yeah. That’s hard for, I think someone to really grasp
ahold of and understand and understand when they need help, because they never
needed help before.
Dave Etler: [00:23:58]
I think the thing though, is that school spend a lot of money and effort
putting in place these efforts. and they really want you to use them, you know,
like the counseling center, the You know, the tutoring groups, the you know,
what, what are some other ones?
The
the, the mechanism to get accommodation? Yeah, I
Miranda Schene: [00:24:19]
think sometimes those accommodations are often framed as like. Oh, well, if
you, and I don’t think that this is a bad thing, but it’s like, Oh, if you
start like dropping back and failing, then you have to come to us and admit,
Oh, I’m a failure. And I need cause which is not true at all.
It’s just, those are things that happen sometimes. And
occasionally you require it. Agreed
Dave Etler: [00:24:41]
agreed.
Eric Boeshart: [00:24:41]
But I can kind of speak to that too, if we want to talk about that. Cause I’m,
you know, I think on top of that, you know, there there’s the general failures
of, okay. You know, maybe you’re not studying correctly.
Maybe, you know, maybe you’re not using all the tools
available, but then there’s things that like life happens. And I know Nick had
talked about, you know, before the podcast we were talking about. you know,
sometimes people start families, you know, life kind of happens around med
school. Well, I had an accident in the middle of first semester, second year,
and now I’m kind of taking a step out.
So, I mean, you kind of hit a point where, you know, I. For
me, it was a concussion. And so I, you know, all of a sudden school becomes a
lot harder and I, you know, there, it was a combination of my injury, but also
a combination of, you know having to admit that I need to use the resources
that are available.
And, you know, I think that now. That’s kind of been put
into perspective, but I think that, you know, there, you’re taking a group of
people that haven’t had to use these resources and you’re like, you know,
expecting them to just jump in. And I, I, you know, I just don’t
Aline Sandouk: [00:25:52]
too. And not
Miranda Schene: [00:25:53]
to mention, you’re also taking a group of people that have more or less defined
themselves on not needing help before, where it’s like, like when you are the
best student of the class, you don’t need a tutor.
You don’t need additional support. That’s
Dave Etler: [00:26:04]
why I want to talk about this because. I think that needs to go away. Yeah, I
agree. I think that that needs to go away. And I think that, you know, if, if,
if this conversation was successful in any way, it would be that, you know, say
a pre-med out there who is struggling.
Really got the message that if you need help, go get it and
don’t give a shit what anybody else thinks about you. because one of the things
I think you guys know. And that I’ve noticed about medical education. Is this
hot take, are you ready? React to this statement? Okay. There is no such thing
as a passive and successful medical student.
Eric Boeshart: [00:26:44] Yeah, I wouldn’t, I
mean, at the same
rate,
Dave Etler: [00:26:49]
Okay. There is no such thing as a passive and successful medical student. And
we’re going to delve into
Miranda Schene: [00:26:54]
that because I need like three things to find. Define success. Number one,
define passive number two.
Yes. I
Nick Lind: [00:27:02]
never find
medical students.
Dave Etler: [00:27:08]
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Very cool. by
successful, let’s start there. I mean, wringing, everything you can out of
medical education. Sure. Oh, well, yeah. Okay. Not getting honors or getting
into ortho or getting into ortho. That’s not what I mean. I mean, if that’s
your goal, that’s
fine. That’s fine. Be successful in that. Yeah. Yeah.
Miranda Schene: [00:28:56]
So I was going to say, I can think of multiple medical students that have been
what I would call passive, and who’ve gotten like straight honors and higher
grades and everything,
Dave Etler: [00:29:05]
you know what?
Okay. So then we’ve got to get to pass it, right? passive, I
mean, a passive consumer of what medical school has to offer. So you sit there
and you Hoover up knowledge and then you spit it back out. That is what I think
of as a passive medical student. All right.
Nick Lind: [00:29:21]
Go. You know what, one thing I wanted to mention after you you kind of define
things there.
One of my peers, I had asked about a rotation one time and
he said, Hey, it’ll be great.
Dave Etler: [00:29:33]
If you
Nick Lind: [00:29:34]
treat it, like you paid for it. And I was, which,
you know, I
Nick Lind: [00:29:39]
did good and I should really treat this rotation. Like I paid for it. And, you
know it’s a way I’ve kind of been trying to handle the rest of my clinical
clerkships.
Like I’m going to treat this, like I paid for it. Like, I’m
going to go in and I’m going to ask to do the cool things. And I’m going to try
to like, do the things that I want to do and learn the things that I want to
learn. And you know, it, it’s kind of been fun. Did
Dave Etler: [00:30:04]
that change anything for you or did it just give you a new perspective on what
you were doing?
It
Nick Lind: [00:30:09]
gave me a new perspective, but I think it did change, you know, cause some
clerkships you have the opportunity to kind of pick and choose a little more of
what you want to do. like, like say like emergency medicine that’s a good one
because you get to sign up for patients and you kind of get to pick what you
know, who you want to see.
And, you know, if you want to go to that trauma, that’s on
the other team that you’re not assigned to, you can go to that trauma and yeah.
You know, it, it’s a good way to, to look at a clerkship and, and kind of. You
know, there are things that you’re going to be asked to do no matter what. but
there might be some options where you get to go in and, you know, even just ask
like when I was on OB GYN, I you know, was in a room and there was an attending
that was going to work independently in another room.
And I said, Hey, can I go work with that attending? it was
in the, or, and he didn’t have any residents, no fellows. So it was just me and
him. And I got to do way more, but I bet you had a
Dave Etler: [00:31:03]
great experience. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Miranda Schene: [00:31:06]
One thing I’ll say is that when you are sort of more like assertive and asking
people, you will be surprised when people will say yes to where it’s like,
there’s a lot of things where like, I’ve had people express to me, like, man, I
wish I could do this.
And then they are. You know, people are like, okay, well,
why don’t you do that? And they’re like, Oh, good point. And then it’s I never
thought of it that way. Oh, I didn’t. Yeah. Cause there’s sort of this
assumption. It’s like the it’s like that one picture of a horse that’s like tied
to a kid’s deck chair where it’s like your limits are.
Yes. So I th it’s one of those things where I think
sometimes people are passive because they don’t know they have an option. It’s
like, you can just like ask for things that you want. I think
Dave Etler: [00:31:49]
also, I mean, that’s, that’s amazing insight and I think that’s something that
That is directly applicable to the clinical part of your education.
And I think it’s also directly, I can see how it’s directly
applicable to an MD/PhD education because those two things, while there are.
You know, set things that you need to do. And you’ll be asked to do things
specifically. There’s also an element at some point of self-determination it’s
a little harder to see that in the preclinical curriculum, because you can’t
just go up to the course director, who’s put together this, you know, this Mo
you know, semester long course and say, yeah, but I want to look at them.
Yeah. but there are things that you can do. During the
preclinical phase to sort of. You know, be more active. I mean, good. I think
the best students that I’ve seen you know, they, they organize that vacuuming
up of knowledge, right? They organize the actual process of consuming it. They
organize the organization of the actual prop, you know, process of consuming
it.
Do they do this?
Organize the organization?
Miranda Schene: [00:32:57]
Not only do they organize, but they organized their organizer. Yeah, it’s a
little obsessive, but
Dave Etler: [00:33:02]
I, you know, and I hope that part of that process is realizing that no plan
survives the first engagement with the enemy. So sometimes you have to, you
know be willing to rejigger your plan, but they seek solutions to problems
rather than just waiting for them, waiting for those solutions to, to arrive.
And I think that’s important. They also participate to the
extent that they can. And I don’t want to say that you, you know, I don’t want
to say that. You absolutely must join every student organization and you
absolutely must become a leader of those student organizations and things like
that. That’s gravy.
but they’re the, I think the people who my guess is that the
people who get the most out of medical education actively participate in it
beyond just going to class. Absolutely.
Aline Sandouk: [00:33:49]
I think to add to that, I think the people who get the most out of it are the
people who are making decisions based on their values and what really matters
to them, not what they should do, but what they’re excited to do.
Dave Etler: [00:34:01]
Yeah. And I think this feeds into something that I often say when any, whenever
anybody gives me the chance, which is defining your own metric,
Aline Sandouk: [00:34:08]
Totally. Yeah. What does success look like to you? What are the issues that are
important to you?
Nick Lind: [00:34:13]
And I think that’s going to change after, you know, your first few months of
medical school.
Yeah, exactly. Because you might think that, Oh, I’m going
to be the top of the class and I’m going to. And somebody is going to be, and
they might be able to meet that. But most of the class will not
Miranda Schene: [00:34:30]
fun fact. There’s only one person that could be the top of the class. So if
you’re
Aline Sandouk: [00:34:37]
number one,
Miranda Schene: [00:34:38]
they are can be old. Late
Dave Etler: [00:34:39]
one. Yeah. The, the student I was talking about earlier with not being passive,
right. They’re examining the world around them. Yeah. Which is. Important. they
were noting its shortcomings. they reached out to other students, they made
themselves vulnerable and I am all for this as you know
Aline Sandouk: [00:34:56]
You, you, you do have to try, like, you have to put yourself out there a little
bit to find out, you know, what your environment is like, right.
You are a little bit in the dark until something really big
happens. And then you’re like, Oh, I need to find out the landscape of the
place that I’m in. And it sounds like this person is really in tune with how
they’re feeling like they’re aware of what they need and what they’re looking
for and are aware of the fact like, Oh, I’m not getting it here now.
I’m going to go somewhere else. Yeah. I think I’m curious to
hear more of like, what Eric’s experience is like. Cause I think I cut you off,
but you were, you were kind of getting to the part of talking about how you
slayed this dragon of passivity, I think.
Eric Boeshart: [00:35:35]
Oh yeah. Well I think that, and it sounds like I agreed.
That this person sounds like they’re kind of reprioritizing
is what, needs to happen. And I think that I, you know, in my own kind of
personal, you know, what’s in the last six months, that’s kind of what’s
happening me. And it’s a lot of, it took me a concussion, some academic MCAT
failures to realize, you know, that.
I was, I was passively taking in information, you know, and
then all of a sudden you’re like, you have this kind of come to Jesus moment
of, I need this information to help people, you know, like that’s what I’m here
to do. That was my ultimate goal. And so I think that. It sounds like this
student is kind of in a similar situation where it’s like, okay, what is your
definition of success?
And for me, my success death’s definition has changed. And,
you have to take the steps to find the help that you need, And I think that
kind of like what we were talking about earlier that I think that the, you know,
there’s adversity, but. I agree with the idea that the institution needs to be
able to throw out these, you know, life rafts or the, you know, and they are
available.
It just, it sucks that we, as a student mindset are like,
nah, I, I don’t want to use it.
Miranda Schene: [00:36:54]
I don’t need your boring
life. I’d love to
Dave Etler: [00:36:57]
tease, you know, this, this sort of reminds me of a conversation I recently had
with my mom. you know, they’re getting older, they need a little bit more help.
And I was trying to suggest some things and my mother said, Oh, we’re not that
kind of people.
Yep. And the two things, things about that, I’m like ma. You
are now. Okay. And number two, I’m that kind of person? What do you, what, what
kind of person are you talking about?
Miranda Schene: [00:37:26]
It’s actually kind of reminds me of, I went to a movie screening last night
outdoors. it was out by the river is
Dave Etler: [00:37:34]
really pretty good. I get to stop like, like putting asterisks after the things
we do, like
Miranda Schene: [00:37:41]
six feet away,
Dave Etler: [00:37:42]
Jeff really was wearing a bow and I was outside. And I was bathed
Nick Lind: [00:37:47]
in hands. I
Dave Etler: [00:37:48]
was wrapped in plastic.
Miranda Schene: [00:37:54]
You’re fine. well I was at this movie screening and at the end of it one of the
guys said something where it’s like the world needs people who are willing to
reinvent themselves. That’s a paraphrase. but that was one, I mean, the
documentary as a whole was a tad pretentious, but it’s okay. I liked it.
but that was one of the things that sort of stuck with me
where it’s like, you know, that’s, people will get stuck in this thing of like,
no, this is just the person I am. And all you have to do is be like, well, why,
why are you that way? And then just, if you can’t come up with a good reason,
then. Be willing to change that.
Like you are not defined in a single
Aline Sandouk: [00:38:28]
aspect. Yeah. I saw a quote somewhere
recently on the internet. I can’t remember where, but it would have been a
Brene. Brown quote, I’m not sure. She she’s like a big vulnerability
researcher.
but the quote was something like a lot of people. and in
this case, as I think they were talking about like relatives, Choose to see you
as the version, they had the most power over and they refused to recognize your
personal growth, you know, into a person they can’t control.
And they get really annoyed around that. And I haven’t been
able to forget it cause I. I mean, I’ve never articulated it that way, but I
have personally experienced that and to piggyback off what Miranda is saying,
don’t just be afraid to change who you are and reinvent yourself and kind of
move the goalposts round, but also get away from people who don’t let you
change.
Yes. Get away from the people who were like, no, get back in
this box that I put you in. I don’t like how you’re trying to squeeze out of my
control and that’s okay. Like I think as people get older and this is harder to
see, I think when you’re under 25, but when you get to be like, I think in your
thirties and forties, you realize that like, Friendships come and go.
Like, just because someone’s your best friend now, and
they’re not going to be your best friend forever, but maybe you step away and
then you come back to them in a few years. Like when your life priorities
realign, you know, and things like that. So everything changes. So feel free to
change with it. Oh, wow.
Dave Etler: [00:39:55]
I was thinking back to To my childhood.
Aline Sandouk: [00:39:57]
You had to read it to me moment where I
Miranda Schene: [00:40:00]
farmhouse.
Nick Lind: [00:40:18]
You know, I think for the first-year medical student, who’s struggling
academically.
you know, I would encourage them to keep at it because this
information is all coming back again. Like I, I just took step two yesterday.
and you know, like, step one, step two, like all these things that you learn,
they just keep coming back. So if you’re not getting it now, you’re not going
to get it.
Then you put the time in to truly understand, you know,
where, where you’re missing it. And so you know, if you have that test that you
either failed or did poorly on, or didn’t quite do where you wanted, you know,
score where you wanted to be. You, you kind of have to keep at that material.
Dave Etler: [00:40:58]
It’s not so important.
I think what you’re saying is it’s not so important that you
got a bad grade. Yes. What’s important. Is that you, you use that information
to inform what you did next. Yes.
Aline Sandouk: [00:41:12]
Yes. And also like, look at the information said, okay, what of this really
matters to my future? I’ll never forget this. There’s a doctor who used to work
at student health.
And I remember I went to her as my doctor and. Because I was
a med student, he came up and she was like, Elaine, let me tell you when I was
in med school, you know, sh she’s an OB now. And she was like, when I was in a
med school, I didn’t learn the foot, not a big deal. I didn’t learn about the
spleen, not a big deal.
I became an OB. So ovaries became critically important for
me. So try to look at it that way you don’t have, like, they’re only the only
two specialties in medicine where you really do need to know everything is
family med and emergency med and everything else. You’re going to lose, like
not lose, but like six.
You’re going
Dave Etler: [00:41:53]
to step away from it a little bit
Aline Sandouk: [00:41:56]
away and make room for really in-depth knowledge for the stuff that’s really
important for the people you see. So, yep.
Dave Etler: [00:42:03]
There is one thing I wanted to say, you know, schools are going to be proactive
by offering things like mental health support system or services tutoring.
A structure for mentoring, learning, our learning
communities are important. but it’s up to you to seek those things out. Again,
we’re getting back to that active student.
I’m going to punch you for gesturing
with me. ,
Miranda Schene: [00:42:26]
I swear to God that one was actually unintentional. That was early.
Empathizing. I was, cause I was like, I was like, all right, get in.
Dave’s head. What is he saying?
Dave Etler: [00:42:39]
Or like firing. But the point is like, we, you know, the schools go to a lot of
trouble to do this and you have to be willing to sort of take advantage of
them. I mean, yes, your school may reach out to you and say, Oh, I see you got
a bad grade on this test. Let us know if you need any help.
Sorry,
Miranda Schene: [00:42:58]
that just made me think of like, you’re paying for it.
Aline Sandouk: [00:43:00]
I was about to say I’m a little pissed
Miranda Schene: [00:43:03]
off.
Aline Sandouk: [00:43:05]
such a great call back, but I was thinking, I was like, you’re paying like
Doreen go use Doreen, you know, any of the other people, but yeah, you’re
Miranda Schene: [00:43:14]
ups. You want to put Dorian into context?
Dave Etler: [00:43:16]
Cause I feel like that’s the head.
Yeah,
Miranda Schene: [00:43:20]
I can just imagine some poor like med student, like Chicago and it’d be like
Yeah. I mean,
the
Aline Sandouk: [00:43:39]
Doreen.
Miranda Schene: [00:43:40]
Yeah,
I know that, you know, like you have to be willing to say in
those cases,
Dave Etler: [00:43:44] what other people
think I’m afraid. I’m afraid of what the Dean or my peers
will think,
Dave Etler: [00:43:49]
who the heck cares, what they think you have a right to seek resolution to your
part.
Aline Sandouk: [00:43:53]
And you know what, for anyone who cause something, I think Eric brought up that
was so perfectly articulated is that you’re really kind of expected to, just to
jump right into being vulnerable.
Whereas for a lot of people they’ve never been vulnerable
and that’s really scary. And so. Like, but no one ever teaches you like what
the baby steps are. So like, I want to share a little bit of advice here.
There’s a lot of safety in curiosity, confusion and concern. Like in that
order, like whenever I have to have a difficult conversation, I never come at
it from like, here’s how you are letting me down.
Here’s how I’m unsatisfied. I always come at it with like,
Hey, I’m curious about this. Can we talk more about that? And then that’s
number one, it puts the person you’re talking to much less on the defensive and
keeps expectations low. Like you’re having kind of a very equal conversation
with like very low stakes.
So yeah. I don’t know, someone told me that once I’m like,
Hey, there’s a lot of safety and confusion. I was like, Oh, okay. I like, I
like that a lot or curiosity
Dave Etler: [00:44:53]
if this, if this fits into that, I mean, kind of what I was thinking of, and
this is what I’ve been trying to sort of remind myself over and over and over
again in recent years.
When you have these interactions, if you come at them with
love and respect, correct. That’s part of it. I think
Aline Sandouk: [00:45:07]
respect always love. I don’t know. Like,
Dave Etler: [00:45:10]
I mean, love in the sense of like, I’m, you know, I understand, I understand
that things are different for you. Yeah. Yeah. They’re not the same as they are
for me.
Let’s talk about this. Yeah. There’s
Eric Boeshart: [00:45:22]
an understanding there,
Dave Etler: [00:45:24]
right? Yeah. I know some people are wor you know, when they’re having trouble
worried about the confidentiality of seeking out mental health services from
your medical. Cool. Hmm. That’s hard. Yeah. do it anyway. Yeah. Like,
I
Dave Etler: [00:45:36]
mean, ask the question in your first meeting with a counselor.
Well, how are you going to treat this information? What are
you going to do with this information going to give you, even before you begin
talking about your problems, they’re going to say, and you down in a, in a, in
a discussion, they’re going to sit you down and say, so what brings you here
today? And the very first thing, if you’re worried about this, the very first
thing that can come out of your mouth isn’t well, I haven’t having all these
problems, the very first thing that could come out of your mouth before you
reveal all that.
Is I’m afraid of any repercussions that might come from
sitting down with you. and these are normal fears and they know it. So let the
counselor address those fears in that first session. And remember that they do
have a legal obligation for confidentiality, the same obligation that you have
as a healthcare professional, by the way.
Yeah, but make them work for your openness. That’s totally
fair.
Aline Sandouk: [00:46:25]
Absolutely. And
that’s, that’s good advice in life in general.
Dave Etler: [00:46:31]
for it
Aline Sandouk: [00:46:31]
I thought
you’re joking, but I’m like, yeah, hell yeah. You know, people, people
should deserve to hear the details of your life.
That that’s, that’s rich and that’s intimate and that’s. You
know, that has a value. And sometimes people will hear these like very personal
stories and be like, Oh, that sucks. And then what’s for lunch. And you’re
like, I just opened my heart up to yeah.
Miranda Schene: [00:46:54]
Or like, that’s almost more devastating than them using it against you as being
like, Oh, wow.
That’s some really deep personal information. Yeah, exactly.
Get some coffee, like, Aw, come on.
Dave Etler: [00:47:08]
One more thing about that piece of advice is, okay, so they’ve reassured you
right. Feel free to say, okay, I’ll talk to you next week about this. Take
yourself, take a minute to sort of internalize that information and process it.
And then you can come back next week and then start the real work if that’s
what you want.
Miranda Schene: [00:47:26]
It is a thousand percent okay. To be selfish when you’re asking for like
personal help, when you’re asking for help, it is a thousand, because I think
sometimes we have this.
Thing of being like, well, I came to them, even though I’m
being vulnerable, it’s still like, Oh, it’s their time. That is their job. They
are there for you. You can be selfish that is allowed and is permissible and
acceptable and great.
Aline Sandouk: [00:47:47]
Yeah. And can I add to that with one more thing? Nope.
Nick Lind: [00:47:53]
Dave
Aline Sandouk: [00:47:53]
forgot his place up in
Miranda Schene: [00:48:01]
I don’t need to, I’m just back here watching popcorn,
Eric Boeshart: [00:48:04]
try to assert myself.
Aline Sandouk: [00:48:08]
We’re still friends at school. it’s okay to put, you know, eggs in different baskets.
So like feel free to shop around. And I it’s something I was thinking about is.
A lot of med schools sometimes feel detached from like the main Institute, if
they’re part of an institution with an undergrad and like other, like, you
know, faculties, other schools.
so like something I never thought of doing is like talking
to the university counseling services. Yeah. They don’t talk to the med school
counseling services. Yeah. So feel free to shop privately. That’s also very
hard because a lot of psychiatrist, psychologist have full patient loads.
They’re not taking on new patients, but like, yeah.
But look for that chemistry, like Miranda was saying like,
Take it with a grain of salt. Don’t immediately close the door on someone who
gives you a you know, a not perfect vibe immediately, but you do need that
chemistry. And if it’s not there, then you’re never really going to feel
comfortable
Miranda Schene: [00:48:54]
opening up.
Yeah. And it’s perfectly fine. Even if you’re a med student
to seek help outside of the med school. Like if you, if obviously if you have
the resources to but like that is also allowed, you don’t have to be restricted
to
Dave Etler: [00:49:07]
which your insurance
Miranda Schene: [00:49:07]
cover that. mine would cover it, I believe through UHC. So I could go to like
the like UHC psychologist, psychiatrist stuff.
And I think it covers some, like, I think blue cross blue
shield. There are a few therapists in the area that also, cause I’ve looked
into this there are a few therapists in the area that would also take my
insurance. So it’s possible.
Aline Sandouk: [00:49:27]
Yeah. I mean the point the Miranda is bringing up. Is that check your coverage?
Yes, absolutely make sure.
Miranda Schene: [00:49:35]
Because some insurances will cover mental health care. Some only cover 50%.
Some won’t cover it, but a lot will, and they might cover it, but only for
specific providers that specific locations or for only certain types of things.
Dave Etler: [00:49:50]
Yeah. Should
Eric Boeshart: [00:49:51]
I just say something real quick? You know, speaking from personal experience,
if you, in that kind of a situation as a med student, you know, obviously in
our context as the short coat, but, you know, just make sure that you’re
looking at resources that are available to you and it’s, it’s better to use the
resources than not use them much.
Like big said, act like you’re paying.
Aline Sandouk: [00:50:10]
Yeah, totally agree. Yep. Excellent. All right
Eric Boeshart: [00:50:14]
guys.
Aline Sandouk: [00:50:14]
Can I share one more thought? Absolutely. I was reading about Audrey Lorde
recently who is she was a black lesbian activist from the seventies who I think
had breast cancer, had a one-sided mastectomy. And like, I guess at that time
it was like even more stigmatized to not have a double mastectomy or get an
implant.
And she was like, no, I’m not going to protect the world
from my, you know, one missing boop. You have like really forced people to
accept her as she is. And I really admired that. And I think something I was
reading about her is that in a capitalist system, self care is almost
subversive and that really resonates like taking care of yourself as
revolutionary, the most.
Right. So
Miranda Schene: [00:50:57]
treat, I agree. Like there’s a certain element to where you’re expected to have
earned it. There’s, there’s a concept of like, if I work hard during the week
that I’ve earned a day off or I’ve earned, like treating myself by going out,
it’s like, you don’t have to, you could just do that if you need it.
Like, if you’re like, I haven’t worked that hard, but I’ve,
I really need a break. And it’s
like,
Dave Etler: [00:51:15]
I see this to people all the time. Like people are like, Oh, it’s come up recently
in the context of vaccinations. Like not necessarily the urn thing, but that.
Oh, I can’t do that. I have something to do at work.
geez. It’s not, you know, the thing at work is
Dave Etler: [00:51:32]
not that
important, you know, let your coworkers to handle it.
Aline Sandouk: [00:51:40]
Your, your job, your boss would not die for you.
Miranda Schene: [00:51:47]
Yeah.
Dave Etler: [00:51:48]
Yeah. Well, I guess you have anything else you want to say before we close the
show?
It’s good to be
Miranda Schene: [00:51:52]
back.
Aline Sandouk: [00:51:56]
I
am happy to have you
Dave Etler: [00:51:57]
here. That’s our show though. Got to go. I gotta go eat lunch.
I’m
Miranda Schene: [00:52:01]
hungry. That’s fair. I think my
Aline Sandouk: [00:52:02]
boss, he acts like we don’t pay for him.
Miranda Schene: [00:52:06]
My gosh
for us
Miranda Schene: [00:52:12]
a lot, the only things in your lives, how dare you have to eat lunch
Aline Sandouk: [00:52:18]
if it’ll make you a better, Dave. Okay.
Dave Etler: [00:52:23]
There’s so much work to be done
Miranda Schene: [00:52:26]
in case anyone is wondering, playing along at home. That’s called hypocrisy
Dave Etler: [00:52:33]
guys. Thank you for being on the show with me today. Thanks, Dave. Thanks. This
is fun. And what kind of slug would I be if I didn’t? Thank you. Chef coats for
making us a part of your week. If you’re new here and you like what you heard
today, subscribe to our show.
Wherever fine podcasts are, podcasts are available. Our
editors are AJ Chowdhury and Erik Bozart or.
Aline Sandouk: [00:52:50]
Take your time.
Sound it out.
Miranda Schene: [00:52:55]
It’s actually my favorite editor. I’m a very big fan of their work because
there is our marketing
Dave Etler: [00:53:00]
coordinator. The show’s made possible by a generous donation by Carver college
of medicine, student government, and ongoing support from the writing and
humanities program.
Our music is by Dr. Voxin canvas fear. I’m Dave, Etler
saying don’t let the bastards get you down. Talk to you in one week.
Bye.
365
Active Medical Student
Dave Etler: [00:00:00]
Welcome back to the short code podcast, a production of the university of Iowa
Carver college of medicine. I’m Dave Etler. with me in the studio today it’s a
man who was as cute as a bug’s ear. It’s MP3, Nicklin, a bug’s ear. How bug’s
ear she flies beyond fates control. It’s MD/PhD student Miranda scheme.
I’d rather doubt an article than question what she delivers.
It’s MD/PhD student Alene, sand Duke. Very fair. And joining me in the form of
ones and zeros. It’s the jammy, just bit of jam
Eric. Bozart. Feeling
Eric Boeshart: [00:01:11]
pretty one today. Over the zero? Yeah.
Nick Lind: [00:01:13]
Okay. That’s good. One.
we’re also live streaming on our Facebook group, the short
code student lounge.
Dave Etler: [00:01:20]
So why not check us out there? You can see all the things I say that we edit
out of the show. Um, say like a week earlier than we posted, if that’s what
the, I mean, if you’re into that If you
Aline Sandouk: [00:01:28]
just can’t live without us.
Dave Etler: [00:01:32]
Well, it’s also nice. You can participate. So that’s know hipster
Miranda Schene: [00:01:35]
vibes, being able to, when all your friends are listening to podcasts, you’d be
like, I already knew that.
I know that I know the punchline to that joke. That’s
Dave Etler: [00:01:42]
right. I’m not even gonna make you sign up for a Patrion to do it, you know?
Cause that’s all right. That’s how giving I am
Miranda Schene: [00:01:48]
also because he doesn’t know how to set up a patriotic,
Dave Etler: [00:01:53]
main reason that I bet you could figure it out someday. today’s show sponsored
by panacea financial.
The digital bank created for doctors by doctors. I’m really
happy to have them back. So we’ll talk more about them later on the show as for
today’s. Topic, you guys don’t even know. I didn’t even tell you about today’s
topic. You know, why in the dark, you know why I didn’t tell you about today’s
Miranda Schene: [00:02:17]
topic?
Has he
we’ve known you too long for us to pull that wool over our
eyes.
Dave Etler: [00:02:25]
There is a student I heard about recently who was running up against a few
problems. the M one wall, ah, you guys all immediately were like, ah, Does the
ring ring a bell for you? But tell me about the .
Miranda Schene: [00:02:37]
Well, I feel like, I mean, I don’t know the specific student’s exact problem,
but for me, the on wall was sort of when I realized, Oh no, I’m in trouble
here.
And this is a new experience it’s for me
Dave Etler: [00:02:50]
in trouble in terms
Miranda Schene: [00:02:52]
of in trouble in terms of like academics and the fact that. Like for a lot of
people coming into my, and this again was my experience. I quite good
academically I don’t mean to brag to anybody here. I’m quite good. humble,
humble brag.
Yeah, that wasn’t really humble though. That was just a
straight up brag. I appreciate it though. but then once you hit a certain
amount of med school and the pace has picked up, and you’re now into territory
that you have never seen before and suddenly this feeling of, Oh, this. Like I
am struggling and I haven’t in my previous academic career had this type of
struggle before, so I’m both struggling and I don’t really know how to deal
with it.
Yeah.
Dave Etler: [00:03:29]
What, what about y’all’s M M one wall. Was there something for you guys?
Aline Sandouk: [00:03:34]
White coat
imposter syndrome started at the white
Aline Sandouk: [00:03:46]
Yeah, no, I think yeah, I, of course I know the wall.
Everyone knows the wall who doesn’t know the wall. I did
notice everyone hits it at different points, I think. And that’s an interesting
observation. The first one. And sometimes the second, some people don’t hit the
wall until the second semester, but yeah, it really dawns on you that you’re in
a whole new world and these are whole new stakes.
and yeah, I don’t know.
Miranda Schene: [00:04:09]
Do we hit the wall? I students MSTP any Haiti’s town fans in our listenership
are going nuts right now. Okay.
Nick Lind: [00:04:17]
Yeah. You know, it’s I think it’s because it’s such a new experience to any of
us. Cause you know, The amount of material that you go through during that,
for, during all of med school, to be honest, but especially that first semester
I mean, you’re basically covering everything and that foundations class that
you covered.
And all of your preparation for medical school. And, and so
you just covered it all and you know, one semester and half a semester and half
a semester, and you even expounded on some topics that you didn’t even. No.
Anything about
Aline Sandouk: [00:04:54]
all the extra credit stuff from undergrad is now core material. Like all of the
stuff that you thought you were going to do for like, you know, brownie points
to like suck up to the teacher.
Like, no, you have to know all of that too. So yeah.
Eric, what
Eric Boeshart: [00:05:07]
about you? Yeah, yeah. I, a hundred percent agree. It’s. I think kind of what
Nick was saying where it’s like, so I did, I did a master’s program before
coming here. It was just kind of like a, one-year kind of doing some more of
the hard science type stuff.
Cause my background’s in engineering. And so you, you know,
I went through that master’s program. You’d take things like, you know, I did
an anatomy course. I did, you know, some pretty in depth Physiology stuff. And
then you come into med school and like, you cover that within the first two
weeks. And you’re just like, okay, so that’s an entire master’s degree.
So
Dave Etler: [00:05:42]
expedited. Yeah. I think there’s also for this student. It was all that. Yeah.
And then I also think that they were concerned. They’re concerned about the
hidden curriculum that they started to notice. Yes, this is so the hidden
curriculum. If you’re not, if you don’t know what that is, I guess I would call
it the,
the part,
Dave Etler: [00:06:03]
the thing that isn’t actually part of the curriculum, but that you’re learning
anyway.
Like how to be like how to be a doctor. Sure. Like what it
means to be a doctor in terms of things like professionalism. Yeah.
Aline Sandouk: [00:06:17]
Yeah. It’s it’s office politics for, for anyone who’s ever worked in an office,
right? Like don’t use Linda’s mug. You never use Linda’s mom. She’ll lose her
mind.
But
Dave Etler: [00:06:29]
it’s uh, you know, things like, you know, how to, how to act like a doctor.
Yeah. How to project that image. What is that image?
Nick Lind: [00:06:38]
I think that really picks up once you hit clinical clerkships, like in you, you
know, you’re working with these people and you’re, you know, within the first
day of working with them, you’re trying to figure out how they tick. Because
like, you know, if you kind of do the wrong thing, you’re going to get called
out pretty quickly.
Depending on who the person
Aline Sandouk: [00:06:58]
is, figuring out where their sharp edges are and then how to stay away from
them.
Miranda Schene: [00:07:04]
A lot of times when we talk about the hidden curriculum, we talk about it as
well, in terms of like relating to patients in a way that isn’t, you’re my
friend, I’m having a conversation, been in a way that is you are the patient,
and I need to figure out what’s wrong with you.
And that, that goes through things like anatomy lab, where
you’re, you may be doing a cadaver dissection for the first time and having to
deal with that, like emotionally, as well as learning all the material. Yeah.
And then actually figuring out how to break a patient story down into
constituent components, which you are then graded on.
Yeah.
Dave Etler: [00:07:33]
Yeah. But I think it’s also about how to look like a doctor, you know, and,
That there are problems with this because not everybody looks the same way.
Yeah. That’s
Aline Sandouk: [00:07:44]
an interesting conversation. I think Danny had by a lot of people in healthcare
right now,
Miranda Schene: [00:07:49]
like th this is the problem with the hidden curriculum is that it’s hidden.
It’s never anything. I don’t think it’s ever been something
that’s been intentionally taught. It’s just sort of generally accepted that
odd. This is also things that people develop through their
medical surgical time,
Dave Etler: [00:08:01]
sort of like the culture. It’s learning the culture of medicine, which means
Miranda Schene: [00:08:06]
it’s, which isn’t only influenced by things like unconscious bias.
Right.
Dave Etler: [00:08:10]
Insanely it isn’t always great. The culture of medicine, you know, there, there
is no culture that is always great. and medicine has its difficulties to, you
know, basically, you know, how do, how do. You know, what are the aspects of
the culture of medicine that I’m talking about? Like hard work all the time.
grades is the most important thing. Yeah.
Aline Sandouk: [00:08:29]
looks do matter though. I don’t know if that’s
Dave Etler: [00:08:31]
where you’re, it’s not that they don’t matter. it’s just that they are perhaps
matter more than they need.
Aline Sandouk: [00:08:39]
Oh, I did say they mattered. I don’t know if you misheard me. Oh, okay. Yes,
Dave Etler: [00:08:42]
but maybe I it up. Is that because
Aline Sandouk: [00:08:47]
you said a bad
Dave Etler: [00:08:49]
part of the hidden curriculum don’t, don’t swear on the podcast.
Miranda Schene: [00:08:57]
Don’t swear in front of children. I mean, in front of patients
Dave Etler: [00:09:02]
repel against that,
Aline Sandouk: [00:09:03]
you know, I remember something in my first year with Ellen Franklin, it was
like a small group and someone was like,
Dave Etler: [00:09:10]
Oh yeah, Are I guess they would, they used to call it the performance-based
assessment.
Aline Sandouk: [00:09:14]
Yeah. She’s like the clinical skills assessment director for folks not at
SeaComm, but I was in a small group and she was like, people were asking, you
know, w what are the expectations for like, how we should look, how we should
dress?
Should it be like interview day? Which, you know,
interviews, people are wearing full suits a little much. And she was like,
well, you know, as long as you look clean and you’ve run a brush through your
hair. And I thought that that was such like reasonable advice. And then I. Like
I grew up a little and I realized that like I was, some people don’t consider
like certain types of ethnic hair, clean looking.
Right. So some people don’t consider certain. Looks or
certain ways of dressing as like clean
Dave Etler: [00:09:52]
cut. Yeah. So like when, when somebody says run a brush through your hair, what
does that really mean? I think that’s part of the hidden whose hair, right?
That’s part of the hidden curriculum. I mean, there’s all kinds of problems
with this hidden curriculum.
precisely because it is, it is hidden. I think
Aline Sandouk: [00:10:07]
it’s changing for the better though. And people are talking about it. People
are talking about talking about it, and I think patients are the. The
demographics of patients is changing too, because I think historically doctors
acted in such a way that was help patients expect, like patients expected to
come to the doctor and maybe I’m wrong.
I’m I don’t mean to generalize, not a hundred percent, but I
think patients came to the doctor expecting to be told what was going to happen
and what they should do. And they liked it that way. And then, you know, the
next generation came along and was like, no, I want to be. Partners in care
with you. I don’t want to be your employee in my care.
And I think that’s where the older guard of medicine is
like, what is this? No, no, no. I tell you what to do, but like now we’re
coming up and like we’re a little bit more, I guess, like culturally congruent
with that. Right. So
Dave Etler: [00:10:56]
there’s more to the hidden curriculum than we haven’t yet discussed. For
instance, There is a S this, this particular student had observed the social
currency that circulates around things like how much you study, how well you
score on tests you know striving to get honors grades, as opposed to striving,
to pass your course and striving to learn.
Right. Which is an important distinction.
Nick Lind: [00:11:20]
Yeah, no,
Dave Etler: [00:11:21]
that’s very true. So F so for instance, like one of the things this person
noticed was you know, professors will let you know, after the exam, what the
average was. On the exam. and I’m not a professional, I’m not, I don’t, I’m
certainly not an expert on educational theory.
but I think to some extent it’s sort of a defensive maneuver
by the professor who needs to prove to the population of medical students, that
it was a successful exam. Yeah. Yup. that it was valid in some way. but what
this student found is that those averages were a source of pressure.
did I perform to the average and the message there being
that your only value. Is the grade that you get. and by the way, push back at
me, if you think, if you think I’m full of shit and anything
Miranda Schene: [00:12:01]
that I say, can I say very quickly? I actually still remember the first time I
scored below the class average on an exam, because like the first like
foundations in the first MD/PhD I was still like pretty doing okay.
And then it hit like the spring semester and I was like, Oh
crap. And I still remember it. The best thing I ever did was I found. Friend.
And my friends were not in these lights. You must get honors or you will die
type people. They were the chill people. And like, we both had a conversation
and she was like, Oh yeah.
I also scored below the average. And it was like, and we
pointed out to each other that like 50% of the class got below the average. And
we’re not a bad student for coming below the average. There can be a
Dave Etler: [00:12:41]
challenge to find that, that, friend. Yeah,
Aline Sandouk: [00:12:44]
it, it requires a little bit of vulnerability and it’s game.
Like vulnerability, chicken, and you’re like, Oh, and then
they give a little, and then you give a little, and then you get to the truth.
Cause it’s, it’s hard. Like that’s not information you can just come out with
and be like, I done failed that test. And then if no one was soliciting that
information or if no one is comfortable sharing that, you know, you’re now in
this weird vulnerability black hole.
But yeah, those are real. I could not agree more. I love
those moments in med school and just like in life, in general, when you’re
like. Yeah, that was hard. And the other person’s like, yes, yes. That was hard
and hard guys. And you both know exactly what you’re talking about.
Nick Lind: [00:13:22]
Yeah. I was just going to say, you know, you take a bunch of people who score
in the top 10% You know, all through their lives and you put them in a room
together and give them the same test. They, they still distribute into a
bell-curve where you still have people at the bottom and you have people at the
top and you have almost everybody else in the middle.
and that’s that’s med school. I mean that that’s everything
in life. And it it’s difficult to come because you’re used to being in that top
10% or higher. And it’s difficult to come to the fact that, Hey, maybe I’m
average or maybe. I’m below average because you know, that exists too. And uh,
Dave Etler: [00:13:57]
I feel comfortable being below it
I’m above average, in some
Miranda Schene: [00:14:05]
ways you’re in the you’re in the first core tile in our hearts,
in the
Eric Boeshart: [00:14:11]
box and whisker plot,
Dave Etler: [00:14:14]
the error bars are just very large. Um,
Eric Boeshart: [00:14:17]
I felt like, you know, we’re talking about averages and stuff.
I would even go a step further to say, like, I feel like it.
In my experience we didn’t hit that
point where I think a majority of people were able to say, like, be open about
like, Hey, I didn’t do well on that test. Like, we didn’t hit that until
probably this semester before clinicals.
Dave Etler: [00:14:36]
Interesting,
Eric Boeshart: [00:14:36]
where it’s just like, you know, I feel like most people were open about that.
Dave Etler: [00:14:40]
Does that ring true to you guys? Or did that happen earlier? Do you think. I,
it kinda, it
Miranda Schene: [00:14:46]
kinda depends. Like I, I do remember in one of our learning communities, we
would almost always have like group D not official group D brief, but informal
group debrief, or it all just like come collapsed on the couches and be like,
well, that sucked.
And that just sort of like opened the floor to be, and it
wasn’t necessarily like I scored this or I scored this. It was never, no one
asked about grades, but it was just like that. Was rough. And that gives you
exactly. That gives you like no information about how that it, maybe it was
rough, but they still got like a hundred percent.
You don’t know, but either way it’s still like commiserating
about that was really hard. And that was tough. And now, wow. I did not even
think that was going to be on there, but Oh, I guess this person really loves
stomach ulcers. I just got more flashbacks. I
think.
Nick Lind: [00:15:29]
I agree. I think the class is pretty good, even from early on.
Like if you. Did poorly, there was at least for me, like I
had a group of people I could easily go talk to. They were pretty open with
like, Oh yeah. Like that was, that was rough. And I think that was really
common. I think I
Dave Etler: [00:15:47]
should say, I should have said before, you know, and like, I’m getting, you
know, when I, when I say I heard about the student, I’ve heard about them
secondhand,, if the student happens to, you know, hear this, I want to say that
I’m not like, yeah, I want to say that. I, well, I just want to say that this
is, you know, th that, this is important to talk about this particular.
Student, apparently had tried discussing with other students
and felt some resistance to that vulnerability. And I was intrigued when you,
Eric said that it took until just before going out into clinicals to open up
you, it kind of makes sense
Eric Boeshart: [00:16:21]
to come into my own realization of getting a pulse on where the.
we were You know, like I agree with Nick, like I did have a
group of people that, you know, you could, I could go to and be like, Hey, I,
you know, I’ve got a general pulse on my group, but I didn’t realize that that
spread out farther to the class until probably before clinics.
Miranda Schene: [00:16:40]
And, and this unfortunately is, and I know we’re all sick of talking about how
COVID has impacted medical education, but that’s a big problem where it’s like,
it’s become essentially, like I’ve only now been seeing sort of like students
back in the communities.
And even then I imagine socialization is relatively down. so
it’s hard to get that pulse on where your classes at it’s hard to get that
collected. Like. Woof kind of moment where everyone sort of collects and shares
and is a bit, and sort of debrief with each other.
Dave Etler: [00:17:07]
Cause even if exams were in person, you’d sort of run away from each other and
go there.
Miranda Schene: [00:17:11]
So like we were just talking, I sat down and I instinctively picked the
farthest chair away in the corner just because that’s how like, all right, six
feet where it, we got to be distanced kind of thing.
Dave Etler: [00:17:21]
I
Miranda Schene: [00:17:22]
I’m sorry. I just want to run away from me, Dave. We’re actually trying to get
away from you.
Aline Sandouk: [00:17:26]
Miranda’s
Miranda Schene: [00:17:26]
just being nice. I’m leaning back as that goes on, just getting as much
bullying. He’s going to get
Aline Sandouk: [00:17:39]
some really bad mental health problems. If you don’t let them know, we’re
joking. Once
Miranda Schene: [00:17:43]
in a while, I haven’t been on the podcast in so long. I forgot how much of it
is just managing
Aline Sandouk: [00:17:48]
Dave’s
emotions.
Dave Etler: [00:17:53]
I guess the upshot from what I understood is, and I think I’m paraphrasing
here. So I hope I get it right. They felt kind of unprotected. and they’re, you
know, they they’re sort of mental health was feeling precarious because of all
this and, and, but they were afraid to seek help. Sure about it. in the form
of, in the form of, you know, things like counseling yeah.
Aline Sandouk: [00:18:16]
In their defense around some people they should be afraid. No, that’s not to
say,
Miranda Schene: [00:18:22]
hang
Dave Etler: [00:18:22]
on, hang on.
Aline Sandouk: [00:18:25]
that’s all to say that like, Be extremely careful who you share that
information with because it’s a 50, 50 chance that you’re sharing that with
someone who’s going to go, Hey, I’m really sorry to hear that.
Let me help you. And then the other 50% are going to go, all
right, great information to have in my pocket. And I’m not joking about that.
That’s something to be very mindful of, but like before you go spilling all
your beans, like. Throw a crumb out there and see how they react and, you know,
before you start really opening up.
So
Dave Etler: [00:18:57]
I would argue that, I mean, I mean, first of all, th this hesitation brings up
two questions for me personally. should the institution protect you? is there
any value, I mean, yes, to some extent the institution should protect you, but
is there any, any value long-term in being unprotected? So that’s question
number one.
Aline Sandouk: [00:19:15]
What type of protection?
Dave Etler: [00:19:17]
I mean, I don’t know, like you know, because I, because I wasn’t able to ask
follow up questions.
Miranda Schene: [00:19:21]
I’m sorry, but may I throw out a metaphor before I forget? Yes, I believe yes
and no. The difference between like chucking someone in the deep end and then
checking someone in the deep end, followed by chucking them a life ring.
You know, where it’s like
Dave Etler: [00:19:37]
chucking them in the deep end and then throwing some chum
Miranda Schene: [00:19:41]
because I exactly like, I think there is definitely value in having to sort of
like, In being vulnerable and being able to like getting that challenge and
having to sort of climb out. But like, there should be a ladder where it’s
like, if you’re like, okay, I have tried and I cannot, I’ve re I’m mixing my
metaphors, but I have tried and I cannot climb out of this hole.
It’s like, okay. Deploy the emergency ladder. Cause like to
meet you halfway. Yeah.
Aline Sandouk: [00:20:06]
Adversity is character building. Right. And I’ll never forget this. This, I
don’t know where I heard this, but I remember reading somewhere that like trees
need when to grow. Otherwise they die. Like that’s so profound. Like they need
the push of wind to kind of push the sapling down to motivate it, to grow big
and strong.
Like,
Dave Etler: [00:20:24]
but they don’t need a daily hurricane
Aline Sandouk: [00:20:28]
mercy. It doesn’t work if it’s like lethal. Right. It has to be up to a point
where like, kind of like Miranda is saying that someone will step in and be
like, okay, Hey, you strolled enough. Well, let’s bring you in and then we can
talk some more.
And I think
Nick Lind: [00:20:43]
what’s that Miranda
Yeah. Yeah. You know,
I
Nick Lind: [00:21:08]
think in pre-clinicals too, it’s important to kind of have some of those
situations where you’re struggling and, and kind of pushing your limits because
once you get to the clinical side of things, You’re you’re much more
independent. You have to like, not only balance the academic side, because
you’re going to have an exam at the end on everything that you need to know for
that clerkship, but you also have to be learning all of the practical hands-on
things for that clerkship at the same time.
And you’re going to be pushed even harder than you were in
pre-clinicals. because there’s, there’s just a ton that you need to know. And
if you’re not setting yourself up, you know, from, from the beginning, it’s
going to be even more difficult. So I think the institution does need to push
you. I do think that there needs to be safety nets, and I think that there are
here you know, you’re going to get that email orcall or whatever from the
counseling center about, you know, are you okay?
Like What can we do to help you academically and, and you
know, which
Miranda Schene: [00:22:07]
I think sometimes it might hurt more than it helps or it’s like, I think I’m
doing okay.
right.
Aline Sandouk: [00:22:17]
But I’m sorry, Dave, did you want to ask
a
Miranda Schene: [00:22:19]
follow up questions? Right? Do you want to play on your phone? I’m trying
Dave Etler: [00:22:22]
to just make sure that
Aline Sandouk: [00:22:30]
The question was,
Dave Etler: [00:22:31]
I have no idea if the live stream worked or not I’ve know, seems to be working,
but then it says you were
Aline Sandouk: [00:22:37]
well, we’re having fun. That’s all that matters.
Miranda Schene: [00:22:40] Voice cracked.
I guess the other thing,
Dave Etler: [00:22:48]
the other question that it brings up to me is why are people still afraid of
seeking help?
Aline Sandouk: [00:22:52]
Because people are still making other people feel bad. That’s why there are
still those, sorry. Blood heads out there that are like, look at this loser.
Pardon my
French. No, no, no.
Dave Etler: [00:23:04]
There’s that there is that. I think there’s that risk.
Nick Lind: [00:23:06]
I think, you know, another aspect of it is our society, our culture, our, the
way that we, especially as medical students, the way that. We’re raised. We, we
often didn’t need help, you know, from Trump high school on the college, you
know, some of us who might’ve had a career before med school
you know
Nick Lind: [00:23:27]
we were able to do it.
Well, without the help. And then you get here and it’s,
it’s,
you know, the heart of one of the harder things I’ve ever
done, you know here in med school.
Nick Lind: [00:23:36]
And I think, you know, when you start hitting your limits you may be, have done
that before, but not quite as often and is like, It doesn’t stop here
and
Nick Lind: [00:23:48]
makes it back. Yeah. Yeah. That’s hard for, I think someone to really grasp
ahold of and understand and understand when they need help, because they never
needed help before.
Dave Etler: [00:23:58]
I think the thing though, is that school spend a lot of money and effort
putting in place these efforts. and they really want you to use them, you know,
like the counseling center, the You know, the tutoring groups, the you know,
what, what are some other ones?
The
the, the mechanism to get accommodation? Yeah, I
Miranda Schene: [00:24:19]
think sometimes those accommodations are often framed as like. Oh, well, if
you, and I don’t think that this is a bad thing, but it’s like, Oh, if you
start like dropping back and failing, then you have to come to us and admit,
Oh, I’m a failure. And I need cause which is not true at all.
It’s just, those are things that happen sometimes. And
occasionally you require it. Agreed
Dave Etler: [00:24:41]
agreed.
Eric Boeshart: [00:24:41]
But I can kind of speak to that too, if we want to talk about that. Cause I’m,
you know, I think on top of that, you know, there there’s the general failures
of, okay. You know, maybe you’re not studying correctly.
Maybe, you know, maybe you’re not using all the tools
available, but then there’s things that like life happens. And I know Nick had
talked about, you know, before the podcast we were talking about. you know,
sometimes people start families, you know, life kind of happens around med
school. Well, I had an accident in the middle of first semester, second year,
and now I’m kind of taking a step out.
So, I mean, you kind of hit a point where, you know, I. For
me, it was a concussion. And so I, you know, all of a sudden school becomes a
lot harder and I, you know, there, it was a combination of my injury, but also
a combination of, you know having to admit that I need to use the resources
that are available.
And, you know, I think that now. That’s kind of been put
into perspective, but I think that, you know, there, you’re taking a group of
people that haven’t had to use these resources and you’re like, you know,
expecting them to just jump in. And I, I, you know, I just don’t
Aline Sandouk: [00:25:52]
too. And not
Miranda Schene: [00:25:53]
to mention, you’re also taking a group of people that have more or less defined
themselves on not needing help before, where it’s like, like when you are the
best student of the class, you don’t need a tutor.
You don’t need additional support. That’s
Dave Etler: [00:26:04]
why I want to talk about this because. I think that needs to go away. Yeah, I
agree. I think that that needs to go away. And I think that, you know, if, if,
if this conversation was successful in any way, it would be that, you know, say
a pre-med out there who is struggling.
Really got the message that if you need help, go get it and
don’t give a shit what anybody else thinks about you. because one of the things
I think you guys know. And that I’ve noticed about medical education. Is this
hot take, are you ready? React to this statement? Okay. There is no such thing
as a passive and successful medical student.
Eric Boeshart: [00:26:44] Yeah, I wouldn’t, I
mean, at the same
rate,
Dave Etler: [00:26:49]
Okay. There is no such thing as a passive and successful medical student. And
we’re going to delve into
Miranda Schene: [00:26:54]
that because I need like three things to find. Define success. Number one,
define passive number two.
Yes. I
Nick Lind: [00:27:02]
never find
medical students.
Dave Etler: [00:27:08]
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Very cool. by
successful, let’s start there. I mean, wringing, everything you can out of
medical education. Sure. Oh, well, yeah. Okay. Not getting honors or getting
into ortho or getting into ortho. That’s not what I mean. I mean, if that’s
your goal, that’s
fine. That’s fine. Be successful in that. Yeah. Yeah.
Miranda Schene: [00:28:56]
So I was going to say, I can think of multiple medical students that have been
what I would call passive, and who’ve gotten like straight honors and higher
grades and everything,
Dave Etler: [00:29:05]
you know what?
Okay. So then we’ve got to get to pass it, right? passive, I
mean, a passive consumer of what medical school has to offer. So you sit there
and you Hoover up knowledge and then you spit it back out. That is what I think
of as a passive medical student. All right.
Nick Lind: [00:29:21]
Go. You know what, one thing I wanted to mention after you you kind of define
things there.
One of my peers, I had asked about a rotation one time and
he said, Hey, it’ll be great.
Dave Etler: [00:29:33]
If you
Nick Lind: [00:29:34]
treat it, like you paid for it. And I was, which,
you know, I
Nick Lind: [00:29:39]
did good and I should really treat this rotation. Like I paid for it. And, you
know it’s a way I’ve kind of been trying to handle the rest of my clinical
clerkships.
Like I’m going to treat this, like I paid for it. Like, I’m
going to go in and I’m going to ask to do the cool things. And I’m going to try
to like, do the things that I want to do and learn the things that I want to
learn. And you know, it, it’s kind of been fun. Did
Dave Etler: [00:30:04]
that change anything for you or did it just give you a new perspective on what
you were doing?
It
Nick Lind: [00:30:09]
gave me a new perspective, but I think it did change, you know, cause some
clerkships you have the opportunity to kind of pick and choose a little more of
what you want to do. like, like say like emergency medicine that’s a good one
because you get to sign up for patients and you kind of get to pick what you
know, who you want to see.
And, you know, if you want to go to that trauma, that’s on
the other team that you’re not assigned to, you can go to that trauma and yeah.
You know, it, it’s a good way to, to look at a clerkship and, and kind of. You
know, there are things that you’re going to be asked to do no matter what. but
there might be some options where you get to go in and, you know, even just ask
like when I was on OB GYN, I you know, was in a room and there was an attending
that was going to work independently in another room.
And I said, Hey, can I go work with that attending? it was
in the, or, and he didn’t have any residents, no fellows. So it was just me and
him. And I got to do way more, but I bet you had a
Dave Etler: [00:31:03]
great experience. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Miranda Schene: [00:31:06]
One thing I’ll say is that when you are sort of more like assertive and asking
people, you will be surprised when people will say yes to where it’s like,
there’s a lot of things where like, I’ve had people express to me, like, man, I
wish I could do this.
And then they are. You know, people are like, okay, well,
why don’t you do that? And they’re like, Oh, good point. And then it’s I never
thought of it that way. Oh, I didn’t. Yeah. Cause there’s sort of this
assumption. It’s like the it’s like that one picture of a horse that’s like tied
to a kid’s deck chair where it’s like your limits are.
Yes. So I th it’s one of those things where I think
sometimes people are passive because they don’t know they have an option. It’s
like, you can just like ask for things that you want. I think
Dave Etler: [00:31:49]
also, I mean, that’s, that’s amazing insight and I think that’s something that
That is directly applicable to the clinical part of your education.
And I think it’s also directly, I can see how it’s directly
applicable to an MD/PhD education because those two things, while there are.
You know, set things that you need to do. And you’ll be asked to do things
specifically. There’s also an element at some point of self-determination it’s
a little harder to see that in the preclinical curriculum, because you can’t
just go up to the course director, who’s put together this, you know, this Mo
you know, semester long course and say, yeah, but I want to look at them.
Yeah. but there are things that you can do. During the
preclinical phase to sort of. You know, be more active. I mean, good. I think
the best students that I’ve seen you know, they, they organize that vacuuming
up of knowledge, right? They organize the actual process of consuming it. They
organize the organization of the actual prop, you know, process of consuming
it.
Do they do this?
Organize the organization?
Miranda Schene: [00:32:57]
Not only do they organize, but they organized their organizer. Yeah, it’s a
little obsessive, but
Dave Etler: [00:33:02]
I, you know, and I hope that part of that process is realizing that no plan
survives the first engagement with the enemy. So sometimes you have to, you
know be willing to rejigger your plan, but they seek solutions to problems
rather than just waiting for them, waiting for those solutions to, to arrive.
And I think that’s important. They also participate to the
extent that they can. And I don’t want to say that you, you know, I don’t want
to say that. You absolutely must join every student organization and you
absolutely must become a leader of those student organizations and things like
that. That’s gravy.
but they’re the, I think the people who my guess is that the
people who get the most out of medical education actively participate in it
beyond just going to class. Absolutely.
Aline Sandouk: [00:33:49]
I think to add to that, I think the people who get the most out of it are the
people who are making decisions based on their values and what really matters
to them, not what they should do, but what they’re excited to do.
Dave Etler: [00:34:01]
Yeah. And I think this feeds into something that I often say when any, whenever
anybody gives me the chance, which is defining your own metric,
Aline Sandouk: [00:34:08]
Totally. Yeah. What does success look like to you? What are the issues that are
important to you?
Nick Lind: [00:34:13]
And I think that’s going to change after, you know, your first few months of
medical school.
Yeah, exactly. Because you might think that, Oh, I’m going
to be the top of the class and I’m going to. And somebody is going to be, and
they might be able to meet that. But most of the class will not
Miranda Schene: [00:34:30]
fun fact. There’s only one person that could be the top of the class. So if
you’re
Aline Sandouk: [00:34:37]
number one,
Miranda Schene: [00:34:38]
they are can be old. Late
Dave Etler: [00:34:39]
one. Yeah. The, the student I was talking about earlier with not being passive,
right. They’re examining the world around them. Yeah. Which is. Important. they
were noting its shortcomings. they reached out to other students, they made
themselves vulnerable and I am all for this as you know
Aline Sandouk: [00:34:56]
You, you, you do have to try, like, you have to put yourself out there a little
bit to find out, you know, what your environment is like, right.
You are a little bit in the dark until something really big
happens. And then you’re like, Oh, I need to find out the landscape of the
place that I’m in. And it sounds like this person is really in tune with how
they’re feeling like they’re aware of what they need and what they’re looking
for and are aware of the fact like, Oh, I’m not getting it here now.
I’m going to go somewhere else. Yeah. I think I’m curious to
hear more of like, what Eric’s experience is like. Cause I think I cut you off,
but you were, you were kind of getting to the part of talking about how you
slayed this dragon of passivity, I think.
Eric Boeshart: [00:35:35]
Oh yeah. Well I think that, and it sounds like I agreed.
That this person sounds like they’re kind of reprioritizing
is what, needs to happen. And I think that I, you know, in my own kind of
personal, you know, what’s in the last six months, that’s kind of what’s
happening me. And it’s a lot of, it took me a concussion, some academic MCAT
failures to realize, you know, that.
I was, I was passively taking in information, you know, and
then all of a sudden you’re like, you have this kind of come to Jesus moment
of, I need this information to help people, you know, like that’s what I’m here
to do. That was my ultimate goal. And so I think that. It sounds like this
student is kind of in a similar situation where it’s like, okay, what is your
definition of success?
And for me, my success death’s definition has changed. And,
you have to take the steps to find the help that you need, And I think that
kind of like what we were talking about earlier that I think that the, you know,
there’s adversity, but. I agree with the idea that the institution needs to be
able to throw out these, you know, life rafts or the, you know, and they are
available.
It just, it sucks that we, as a student mindset are like,
nah, I, I don’t want to use it.
Miranda Schene: [00:36:54]
I don’t need your boring
life. I’d love to
Dave Etler: [00:36:57]
tease, you know, this, this sort of reminds me of a conversation I recently had
with my mom. you know, they’re getting older, they need a little bit more help.
And I was trying to suggest some things and my mother said, Oh, we’re not that
kind of people.
Yep. And the two things, things about that, I’m like ma. You
are now. Okay. And number two, I’m that kind of person? What do you, what, what
kind of person are you talking about?
Miranda Schene: [00:37:26]
It’s actually kind of reminds me of, I went to a movie screening last night
outdoors. it was out by the river is
Dave Etler: [00:37:34]
really pretty good. I get to stop like, like putting asterisks after the things
we do, like
Miranda Schene: [00:37:41]
six feet away,
Dave Etler: [00:37:42]
Jeff really was wearing a bow and I was outside. And I was bathed
Nick Lind: [00:37:47]
in hands. I
Dave Etler: [00:37:48]
was wrapped in plastic.
Miranda Schene: [00:37:54]
You’re fine. well I was at this movie screening and at the end of it one of the
guys said something where it’s like the world needs people who are willing to
reinvent themselves. That’s a paraphrase. but that was one, I mean, the
documentary as a whole was a tad pretentious, but it’s okay. I liked it.
but that was one of the things that sort of stuck with me
where it’s like, you know, that’s, people will get stuck in this thing of like,
no, this is just the person I am. And all you have to do is be like, well, why,
why are you that way? And then just, if you can’t come up with a good reason,
then. Be willing to change that.
Like you are not defined in a single
Aline Sandouk: [00:38:28]
aspect. Yeah. I saw a quote somewhere
recently on the internet. I can’t remember where, but it would have been a
Brene. Brown quote, I’m not sure. She she’s like a big vulnerability
researcher.
but the quote was something like a lot of people. and in
this case, as I think they were talking about like relatives, Choose to see you
as the version, they had the most power over and they refused to recognize your
personal growth, you know, into a person they can’t control.
And they get really annoyed around that. And I haven’t been
able to forget it cause I. I mean, I’ve never articulated it that way, but I
have personally experienced that and to piggyback off what Miranda is saying,
don’t just be afraid to change who you are and reinvent yourself and kind of
move the goalposts round, but also get away from people who don’t let you
change.
Yes. Get away from the people who were like, no, get back in
this box that I put you in. I don’t like how you’re trying to squeeze out of my
control and that’s okay. Like I think as people get older and this is harder to
see, I think when you’re under 25, but when you get to be like, I think in your
thirties and forties, you realize that like, Friendships come and go.
Like, just because someone’s your best friend now, and
they’re not going to be your best friend forever, but maybe you step away and
then you come back to them in a few years. Like when your life priorities
realign, you know, and things like that. So everything changes. So feel free to
change with it. Oh, wow.
Dave Etler: [00:39:55]
I was thinking back to To my childhood.
Aline Sandouk: [00:39:57]
You had to read it to me moment where I
Miranda Schene: [00:40:00]
farmhouse.
Nick Lind: [00:40:18]
You know, I think for the first-year medical student, who’s struggling
academically.
you know, I would encourage them to keep at it because this
information is all coming back again. Like I, I just took step two yesterday.
and you know, like, step one, step two, like all these things that you learn,
they just keep coming back. So if you’re not getting it now, you’re not going
to get it.
Then you put the time in to truly understand, you know,
where, where you’re missing it. And so you know, if you have that test that you
either failed or did poorly on, or didn’t quite do where you wanted, you know,
score where you wanted to be. You, you kind of have to keep at that material.
Dave Etler: [00:40:58]
It’s not so important.
I think what you’re saying is it’s not so important that you
got a bad grade. Yes. What’s important. Is that you, you use that information
to inform what you did next. Yes.
Aline Sandouk: [00:41:12]
Yes. And also like, look at the information said, okay, what of this really
matters to my future? I’ll never forget this. There’s a doctor who used to work
at student health.
And I remember I went to her as my doctor and. Because I was
a med student, he came up and she was like, Elaine, let me tell you when I was
in med school, you know, sh she’s an OB now. And she was like, when I was in a
med school, I didn’t learn the foot, not a big deal. I didn’t learn about the
spleen, not a big deal.
I became an OB. So ovaries became critically important for
me. So try to look at it that way you don’t have, like, they’re only the only
two specialties in medicine where you really do need to know everything is
family med and emergency med and everything else. You’re going to lose, like
not lose, but like six.
You’re going
Dave Etler: [00:41:53]
to step away from it a little bit
Aline Sandouk: [00:41:56]
away and make room for really in-depth knowledge for the stuff that’s really
important for the people you see. So, yep.
Dave Etler: [00:42:03]
There is one thing I wanted to say, you know, schools are going to be proactive
by offering things like mental health support system or services tutoring.
A structure for mentoring, learning, our learning
communities are important. but it’s up to you to seek those things out. Again,
we’re getting back to that active student.
I’m going to punch you for gesturing
with me. ,
Miranda Schene: [00:42:26]
I swear to God that one was actually unintentional. That was early.
Empathizing. I was, cause I was like, I was like, all right, get in.
Dave’s head. What is he saying?
Dave Etler: [00:42:39]
Or like firing. But the point is like, we, you know, the schools go to a lot of
trouble to do this and you have to be willing to sort of take advantage of
them. I mean, yes, your school may reach out to you and say, Oh, I see you got
a bad grade on this test. Let us know if you need any help.
Sorry,
Miranda Schene: [00:42:58]
that just made me think of like, you’re paying for it.
Aline Sandouk: [00:43:00]
I was about to say I’m a little pissed
Miranda Schene: [00:43:03]
off.
Aline Sandouk: [00:43:05]
such a great call back, but I was thinking, I was like, you’re paying like
Doreen go use Doreen, you know, any of the other people, but yeah, you’re
Miranda Schene: [00:43:14]
ups. You want to put Dorian into context?
Dave Etler: [00:43:16]
Cause I feel like that’s the head.
Yeah,
Miranda Schene: [00:43:20]
I can just imagine some poor like med student, like Chicago and it’d be like
Yeah. I mean,
the
Aline Sandouk: [00:43:39]
Doreen.
Miranda Schene: [00:43:40]
Yeah,
I know that, you know, like you have to be willing to say in
those cases,
Dave Etler: [00:43:44] what other people
think I’m afraid. I’m afraid of what the Dean or my peers
will think,
Dave Etler: [00:43:49]
who the heck cares, what they think you have a right to seek resolution to your
part.
Aline Sandouk: [00:43:53]
And you know what, for anyone who cause something, I think Eric brought up that
was so perfectly articulated is that you’re really kind of expected to, just to
jump right into being vulnerable.
Whereas for a lot of people they’ve never been vulnerable
and that’s really scary. And so. Like, but no one ever teaches you like what
the baby steps are. So like, I want to share a little bit of advice here.
There’s a lot of safety in curiosity, confusion and concern. Like in that
order, like whenever I have to have a difficult conversation, I never come at
it from like, here’s how you are letting me down.
Here’s how I’m unsatisfied. I always come at it with like,
Hey, I’m curious about this. Can we talk more about that? And then that’s
number one, it puts the person you’re talking to much less on the defensive and
keeps expectations low. Like you’re having kind of a very equal conversation
with like very low stakes.
So yeah. I don’t know, someone told me that once I’m like,
Hey, there’s a lot of safety and confusion. I was like, Oh, okay. I like, I
like that a lot or curiosity
Dave Etler: [00:44:53]
if this, if this fits into that, I mean, kind of what I was thinking of, and
this is what I’ve been trying to sort of remind myself over and over and over
again in recent years.
When you have these interactions, if you come at them with
love and respect, correct. That’s part of it. I think
Aline Sandouk: [00:45:07]
respect always love. I don’t know. Like,
Dave Etler: [00:45:10]
I mean, love in the sense of like, I’m, you know, I understand, I understand
that things are different for you. Yeah. Yeah. They’re not the same as they are
for me.
Let’s talk about this. Yeah. There’s
Eric Boeshart: [00:45:22]
an understanding there,
Dave Etler: [00:45:24]
right? Yeah. I know some people are wor you know, when they’re having trouble
worried about the confidentiality of seeking out mental health services from
your medical. Cool. Hmm. That’s hard. Yeah. do it anyway. Yeah. Like,
I
Dave Etler: [00:45:36]
mean, ask the question in your first meeting with a counselor.
Well, how are you going to treat this information? What are
you going to do with this information going to give you, even before you begin
talking about your problems, they’re going to say, and you down in a, in a, in
a discussion, they’re going to sit you down and say, so what brings you here
today? And the very first thing, if you’re worried about this, the very first
thing that can come out of your mouth isn’t well, I haven’t having all these
problems, the very first thing that could come out of your mouth before you
reveal all that.
Is I’m afraid of any repercussions that might come from
sitting down with you. and these are normal fears and they know it. So let the
counselor address those fears in that first session. And remember that they do
have a legal obligation for confidentiality, the same obligation that you have
as a healthcare professional, by the way.
Yeah, but make them work for your openness. That’s totally
fair.
Aline Sandouk: [00:46:25]
Absolutely. And
that’s, that’s good advice in life in general.
Dave Etler: [00:46:31]
for it
Aline Sandouk: [00:46:31]
I thought
you’re joking, but I’m like, yeah, hell yeah. You know, people, people
should deserve to hear the details of your life.
That that’s, that’s rich and that’s intimate and that’s. You
know, that has a value. And sometimes people will hear these like very personal
stories and be like, Oh, that sucks. And then what’s for lunch. And you’re
like, I just opened my heart up to yeah.
Miranda Schene: [00:46:54]
Or like, that’s almost more devastating than them using it against you as being
like, Oh, wow.
That’s some really deep personal information. Yeah, exactly.
Get some coffee, like, Aw, come on.
Dave Etler: [00:47:08]
One more thing about that piece of advice is, okay, so they’ve reassured you
right. Feel free to say, okay, I’ll talk to you next week about this. Take
yourself, take a minute to sort of internalize that information and process it.
And then you can come back next week and then start the real work if that’s
what you want.
Miranda Schene: [00:47:26]
It is a thousand percent okay. To be selfish when you’re asking for like
personal help, when you’re asking for help, it is a thousand, because I think
sometimes we have this.
Thing of being like, well, I came to them, even though I’m
being vulnerable, it’s still like, Oh, it’s their time. That is their job. They
are there for you. You can be selfish that is allowed and is permissible and
acceptable and great.
Aline Sandouk: [00:47:47]
Yeah. And can I add to that with one more thing? Nope.
Nick Lind: [00:47:53]
Dave
Aline Sandouk: [00:47:53]
forgot his place up in
Miranda Schene: [00:48:01]
I don’t need to, I’m just back here watching popcorn,
Eric Boeshart: [00:48:04]
try to assert myself.
Aline Sandouk: [00:48:08]
We’re still friends at school. it’s okay to put, you know, eggs in different baskets.
So like feel free to shop around. And I it’s something I was thinking about is.
A lot of med schools sometimes feel detached from like the main Institute, if
they’re part of an institution with an undergrad and like other, like, you
know, faculties, other schools.
so like something I never thought of doing is like talking
to the university counseling services. Yeah. They don’t talk to the med school
counseling services. Yeah. So feel free to shop privately. That’s also very
hard because a lot of psychiatrist, psychologist have full patient loads.
They’re not taking on new patients, but like, yeah.
But look for that chemistry, like Miranda was saying like,
Take it with a grain of salt. Don’t immediately close the door on someone who
gives you a you know, a not perfect vibe immediately, but you do need that
chemistry. And if it’s not there, then you’re never really going to feel
comfortable
Miranda Schene: [00:48:54]
opening up.
Yeah. And it’s perfectly fine. Even if you’re a med student
to seek help outside of the med school. Like if you, if obviously if you have
the resources to but like that is also allowed, you don’t have to be restricted
to
Dave Etler: [00:49:07]
which your insurance
Miranda Schene: [00:49:07]
cover that. mine would cover it, I believe through UHC. So I could go to like
the like UHC psychologist, psychiatrist stuff.
And I think it covers some, like, I think blue cross blue
shield. There are a few therapists in the area that also, cause I’ve looked
into this there are a few therapists in the area that would also take my
insurance. So it’s possible.
Aline Sandouk: [00:49:27]
Yeah. I mean the point the Miranda is bringing up. Is that check your coverage?
Yes, absolutely make sure.
Miranda Schene: [00:49:35]
Because some insurances will cover mental health care. Some only cover 50%.
Some won’t cover it, but a lot will, and they might cover it, but only for
specific providers that specific locations or for only certain types of things.
Dave Etler: [00:49:50]
Yeah. Should
Eric Boeshart: [00:49:51]
I just say something real quick? You know, speaking from personal experience,
if you, in that kind of a situation as a med student, you know, obviously in
our context as the short coat, but, you know, just make sure that you’re
looking at resources that are available to you and it’s, it’s better to use the
resources than not use them much.
Like big said, act like you’re paying.
Aline Sandouk: [00:50:10]
Yeah, totally agree. Yep. Excellent. All right
Eric Boeshart: [00:50:14]
guys.
Aline Sandouk: [00:50:14]
Can I share one more thought? Absolutely. I was reading about Audrey Lorde
recently who is she was a black lesbian activist from the seventies who I think
had breast cancer, had a one-sided mastectomy. And like, I guess at that time
it was like even more stigmatized to not have a double mastectomy or get an
implant.
And she was like, no, I’m not going to protect the world
from my, you know, one missing boop. You have like really forced people to
accept her as she is. And I really admired that. And I think something I was
reading about her is that in a capitalist system, self care is almost
subversive and that really resonates like taking care of yourself as
revolutionary, the most.
Right. So
Miranda Schene: [00:50:57]
treat, I agree. Like there’s a certain element to where you’re expected to have
earned it. There’s, there’s a concept of like, if I work hard during the week
that I’ve earned a day off or I’ve earned, like treating myself by going out,
it’s like, you don’t have to, you could just do that if you need it.
Like, if you’re like, I haven’t worked that hard, but I’ve,
I really need a break. And it’s
like,
Dave Etler: [00:51:15]
I see this to people all the time. Like people are like, Oh, it’s come up recently
in the context of vaccinations. Like not necessarily the urn thing, but that.
Oh, I can’t do that. I have something to do at work.
geez. It’s not, you know, the thing at work is
Dave Etler: [00:51:32]
not that
important, you know, let your coworkers to handle it.
Aline Sandouk: [00:51:40]
Your, your job, your boss would not die for you.
Miranda Schene: [00:51:47]
Yeah.
Dave Etler: [00:51:48]
Yeah. Well, I guess you have anything else you want to say before we close the
show?
It’s good to be
Miranda Schene: [00:51:52]
back.
Aline Sandouk: [00:51:56]
I
am happy to have you
Dave Etler: [00:51:57]
here. That’s our show though. Got to go. I gotta go eat lunch.
I’m
Miranda Schene: [00:52:01]
hungry. That’s fair. I think my
Aline Sandouk: [00:52:02]
boss, he acts like we don’t pay for him.
Miranda Schene: [00:52:06]
My gosh
for us
Miranda Schene: [00:52:12]
a lot, the only things in your lives, how dare you have to eat lunch
Aline Sandouk: [00:52:18]
if it’ll make you a better, Dave. Okay.
Dave Etler: [00:52:23]
There’s so much work to be done
Miranda Schene: [00:52:26]
in case anyone is wondering, playing along at home. That’s called hypocrisy
Dave Etler: [00:52:33]
guys. Thank you for being on the show with me today. Thanks, Dave. Thanks. This
is fun. And what kind of slug would I be if I didn’t? Thank you. Chef coats for
making us a part of your week. If you’re new here and you like what you heard
today, subscribe to our show.
Wherever fine podcasts are, podcasts are available. Our
editors are AJ Chowdhury and Erik Bozart or.
Aline Sandouk: [00:52:50]
Take your time.
Sound it out.
Miranda Schene: [00:52:55]
It’s actually my favorite editor. I’m a very big fan of their work because
there is our marketing
Dave Etler: [00:53:00]
coordinator. The show’s made possible by a generous donation by Carver college
of medicine, student government, and ongoing support from the writing and
humanities program.
Our music is by Dr. Voxin canvas fear. I’m Dave, Etler
saying don’t let the bastards get you down. Talk to you in one week.
Bye.
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
Table Rounds: Gamifying Med Ed, ft. Paulius Mui, MD
Apr 29, 2021
How Gaming Can Help You Learn Medicine Better
TL;DR
Rote memorization is part of medical education, but drawing deeper connections between concepts is what makes you a physician.
Medical school emphasizes finding the correct answer, but when you begin to practice medicine you’ll find that the answers are much more complex than that.
Although moving from med school to residency can be scary–as with any transition–Paulius found it to be easier than he expected.
Dr. Paulius Mui is a first-year family medicine resident in Virginia, and a long-time listener (since before med school!). He wrote to Dave not long ago because he had published a game called Table Rounds. It’s a game he and his friends in med school had made up, and now he’s working to bring it into the world as an actual product.
Paulius sent Dave a copy of the game [for free, he’s not a sponsor. –Dave], and M1s AJ Chowdhury, Alex Belzer, Nolan Redetzke, and M4 Joyce Wahba play the game. Players use cards–each with a medical term or concept on it–to draw connections between them. The connections can be deep or they can be spurious, but if you can make your case you’re a winner. But perhaps more importantly, it’s a game that you can make your own, coming up with rules that make it even more interesting and helpful.
Paulius also gives his advice to Joyce, who’s about to start her residency in Emergency Medicine, and discusses his first-year as a resident beginning while the pandemic raged.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
Dave Etler: [00:00:00]
Welcome back to the Short Coat Podcast. a production of the University of Iowa
Carver College of Medicine. I’m Dave Etler joining me in the studio and in our
live stream on Facebook’s. The Short Coat Student Lounge is a fine slate of
medical student co-hosts, say hello to an illustrious M4, Joyce Wahba.
Joyce Wahba: [00:00:50]
Hey everyone.
Dave Etler: [00:00:51]
Over there is a fine young M1 who’s
really going places. AJ Chowdhury.
Hello. Next to him is his virtually identical twin and a fascinating M1
himself. Alex Belzer. Howdy. Howdy. Holy smokes. A new co-host is entered the
chat it’s Nolan Redetzke. Hello. But if
you thought that was all that I had to offer you today on today’s show, I would
ordinarily say isn’t that enough for you listeners, but yes, I do have more,
Dr.Paulius Mui is a first year family
medicine resident now in Winchester, Virginia. Is that right? That’s right. I
did a little research. He’s the co-inventor of a new game called table rounds.
Which I think you’re going to like short coats.
Hello. Thank you for, thank you for joining us on the show.
So we’re gonna play this game a little bit first. The story I want to get into
the story, you sort of the origin story
of this game. Is that you and your med student friends sort of invented
this game while you were, a med student at, , BU Boston university VCU.
Okay. I don’t know why I thought it was B U I F I swear to
God. I looked it up. I think he’s actually, I found your, I found your resident
page on the website and I think it says, BU dude,
Paulius Mui: [00:01:57]
I went to BU for undergrad
Dave Etler: [00:02:00]
okay.
So I read it wrong.
Joyce Wahba: [00:02:03]
You tried though. It’s fine
Dave Etler: [00:02:04]
I do try. I do try to do my job. Yeah. It sounds like your effort was there.
Yeah. Not focused. I think you said , you sort of invented
or came up with this game while you were in med school…
Paulius Mui: [00:02:15]
Yes. Yes. So you know, thanks for having me on the show. I’ve actually listened
to you all since, um, at least
Dave Etler: [00:02:21]
September 2016, I went back and looked through my emails in the first time you
emailed me was September of 2016.
Paulius Mui: [00:02:28]
So this is even before. I knew for certain that I was going to be a doctor. So,
, yeah, I’ve been following along your work for some time and it’s been really
exciting now, full circle, kind of crazy.
Dave Etler: [00:02:41]
Now you’re now you’re the real thing and you’re on the show. I love it. This is
great. So yeah. How did you come up with this game?
Paulius Mui: [00:02:46]
Well, I mean, it was harder to not make the game, I think, than actually make
it and share it with my colleagues. It
really came out of how we studied, and with my friends and the study group. I
think it was step one dedicated period when it really clicked.
And, I think kind of realizing, going through medicine and
medical school, realizing that, medicine is just a lot about identifying
connections that seem to be hidden, and there are all sorts of clues that the
patient tells you and you’re supposed to kind of piece them together and make the connections visible for others.
And I can get into kind of more of the maybe not the so
exciting part, but you know, like my friend Graham, he would quiz me about
different things. For example, Dave, we’re going to get a little medical here.
Dave Etler: [00:03:34]
I can handle it. I’m going to gird my loins.
Paulius Mui: [00:03:38]
Girded. So, you know, he would, Say.
Okay. So tell me what you know about cellulitis. Like what’s
the first thing that comes to mind and I don’t know. I think of like an
antibiotic, like clindamycin and , he’s like, okay, what else is associated
with clindamycin? And I would say, okay, maybe C-diff. Okay. And then he’s
like, what about C diff?
And then I would say a vancomycin and then we just kind of
go down the path of one thing makes you think of another thing. And then we’d
kind of see how far we can take each other’s knowledge. And so that’s really
the idea that, you know, there are these things that you’re, you know, you
think of one thing and then it’s connected to the other and we’ve built off of
that and created this, this game.
Dave Etler: [00:04:16]
I don’t know about you guys, but I like this approach because , it seems kind
of an obvious approach because a lot of med school is about memorization, but
that’s not where the real sort of learning,
is done. Right. I mean, that’s just basic sort of surface level.
Paulius Mui: [00:04:29]
Yeah, exactly. And I mean, I think, you know, this is, certainly a game in a way to play.
But really, I think
it’s more of a symbol for why we. Actually took the effort to produce it and
make it available and go through some of the steps that are not just purely
fun. Cause it , took, , a lot of time to make sure that it’s a good experience
for everybody is because, we’re really hoped to nudge the culture of medical
education to create a space for playfulness and human connection.
In a place that I
think doesn’t welcome it all the time. I think just broadly speaking, obviously.
That’s great. I like that. Yeah. every medical school experience is different
for everybody, but, and so this is kind of coming from my experience and, you
know, medical education is full of amazing people.
But some things exist
that I think could be improved and whether this is just. kind of leftover
or, unintended consequences of
well-meaning efforts or just historical inertia, but they’re definitely a few
things that. Could be changed about the way our training happens in terms of it
matching up with the reality of practicing medicine.
And I think that our game really tries to bridge the gap
between what’s what’s not available right now in terms of developing some of
these more emotional intelligence skills.
Dave Etler: [00:05:49]
Any reactions to that, you guys?
AJ Chowdhury: [00:05:51]
That sounds very high yield.
Alex Belzer: [00:05:55]
I’m going to go, I’m going to go ahead and file that in the good take file
folder,
AJ Chowdhury: [00:06:00]
indeed.
Dave Etler: [00:06:02]
So you had this idea, and what was it
like to bring. An idea from something you do with your buds to a physical product,
I’m kind of always fascinated by this, by this process because it’s not, it’s
not just like have an idea, make it profit.
Paulius Mui: [00:06:18]
Yeah, that’s true. Exactly. And I mean, I think this is not something that is
going to make us wealthy or, have us,
pay off our student loans.
I think this is just a fun thing that hopefully we’re not
going to lose money and be net neutral or so in the end. , we launched officially and made it available
for sale early in 2021, but have been working on it. Really, I think for about two years now.
And so we first developed the concept for the game and then
tested it with our friends and refine the rules. And then we , tested it some
more, got feedback and went through a lot of iterations and kind of handmade
the cards ourselves. First we created
everything by hand. Then we take it to the next.
Phase of printing it at Kinko’s. , then when things were
kind of evolving, as we were expecting, you know, we ordered some prototypes
research, the different companies they could place the order with, and then
kept testing it. And then eventually when we
felt comfortable that this is a. Worthwhile pursuing, you know, we took
somewhat of a risk and, bought an
inventory and, , created a website, you know, like a whole production, I think.
And I don’t, I honestly don’t know why it happened. But it did.
Dave Etler: [00:07:34]
Yeah. Because I was going to ask, like, what was that signal that you were
like, Oh yeah, This, this has legs. I can, we can do this. I mean,
Paulius Mui: [00:07:40]
so, because I think, I believe in what it represents. So, so there, you know, I
didn’t get into the specific issues that are wrong with, I think, medical
training, but I’m happy to highlight a couple of times do it.
Dave Etler: [00:07:53]
Nope. There’s nothing
Paulius Mui: [00:07:54]
wrong with that actually. You know, I’ve only, I only know my experience
and, the few people that I know outside
of my medical school who have gone through the same thing, and I’ve heard it
echoed, but if you guys feel that this is not really true to you, let me know. So what I think, for example,
there, there are a couple of things.
The, biggest thing
that stands out to me is that the opportunity cost of not studying in medical
school is huge . I felt , the need to, to try to study whenever I can even like
when exercising, I try to listen, you know, try to kind of do something
medically oriented
because of that people generally who go to medical school,
you know, adapt really well to their circumstances. And that comes at the
neglect of their wellbeing and physical health and mental health and the very
qualities that our patients expect us to model,
just are not paid attention to. And I think that the system, Yes, there are wellness efforts and so on, but
I think that really the medical education system does not make it easier for us
to prioritize ourselves.
I don’t know if. There is a glimpse of truth in your
experience, especially you, Joyce, that you’ve gone through school. Yeah.
Joyce Wahba: [00:09:08]
I mean, I would definitely agree with that. Like I think wellness very much
needs to be like a systemic thing. Like that’s kind of built into the structure
of what the school has to offer.
Not just kind of like one-off wellness lectures. Cause those
don’t really do much. It’s more of like a cultural change overall.
Alex Belzer: [00:09:24]
I feel like I was trying really, really hard. I don’t know how much I can speak
about this, but I was really, really hard to do wellness stuff and they’re
Dave Etler: [00:09:32]
well, wait a minute, wait a minute.
Wait a minute. I just want to point out that if you do say
something wrong, you will have to die. I mean,
Alex Belzer: [00:09:38]
it’s a sacrifice we’re willing to make. Okay, good. Yeah. I was, I was trying
really, really hard to like. Emphasize wellness if that makes sense.
Joyce Wahba: [00:09:46]
Wellness passport not make you more
Paulius Mui: [00:09:47]
well.
Oh, that is
AJ Chowdhury: [00:09:48]
peak
Alex Belzer: [00:09:49]
wellness. No, I booked a flight, taken a trip and gone through customs to get
to the land of wellness.
Paulius Mui: [00:09:56]
Absolutely.
Dave Etler: [00:09:59]
Yeah , these are efforts that are clearly still developing. I could, I think we
can. Yes.
AJ Chowdhury: [00:10:06]
And they are open to student feedback. I sit on the committee. That’s actually
revising wellness passports for next year’s M1s. That
Dave Etler: [00:10:12]
is, no, I’m confusing it with something
else. Nevermind. ,
AJ Chowdhury: [00:10:14]
there’s a student liaison committee.
Yes.
Alex Belzer: [00:10:17]
Talk
Paulius Mui: [00:10:17]
between
Dave Etler: [00:10:17]
the
Paulius Mui: [00:10:17]
two. Yeah. If I can just add, so it
sounds like you guys can, , empathize with what’s happening, over at other places too. And so, so that’s
one of three things. So then I think the second thing that I think about is
that there’s also a culture of individualism and medicine and.
Obviously people will
study sometimes together and, you know, there’s some, , team-based exercises,
but overall, you know, I felt even though I had friends and classmates and so
on that we got along with there, there’s definitely a sense of you, ,
competing, , ultimately against other people, even at whether it’s a silent
competition or something.
You know, there’s just, there’s that process of ranking. And
like our school was , pass/ , fail for the first two years, but people keep track of where you stand and then
you have to go through the match process to get into the residency as like the
ultimate competition, you know, limited spots.
And you, you need to be able to get into places. Whereas the
real world medicine is really all about working in teams and having the
emotional intelligence to collaborate. And, , that’s really ultimately how good
patient care is delivered. And so, you know, you have to be able to work well
with pharmacists nurses, audiologists, like all of the people out there in the
health team.
So
Dave Etler: [00:11:39]
the, so the game, is basically an
additional opportunity to learn while you’re enjoying the company of other
people. Instead of like just hitting the books,
Paulius Mui: [00:11:48]
basically. Exactly. So really like if you just play the game, I don’t think
you’re going to get very far in medical school. This is more medics,
Joyce Wahba: [00:11:56]
right?
Their version.
Dave Etler: [00:11:57]
I mean, you know, version two, the DLC,
you know,
Joyce Wahba: [00:12:03]
expansion packs, infectious disease, the
start getting really specific
Alex Belzer: [00:12:08]
version. Oh, Honestly, what would a game be these days without more payments,
right. Sports,
Paulius Mui: [00:12:17]
credit card. Yeah. And, and actually this it’s an interesting point and you can
. Certainly take it, you know, when we’re going to talk about the details of
the game.
Yeah. So you can certainly take it and make it a lot, you
know, like specialty specific, but truly, if you are creative enough, you can
connect a lot of things to. To the foundations of medicine. I think that’s the other
piece, the third part, I think that is kind of different about the medical
training compared to the practice of medicine that, you know, I’ve had just
under a year of experience, but yeah.
To me, there’s that one difference of, , medical school. It
really drills into you certainty and knowing the one correct answer. I mean,
our often our self identity is wrapped in our academic standing and, you know,
How we live is defined by the answer you choose. And that determines what
specialty you go into.
And the real world is a lot more messy. I mean, there is not
any answer in the back of the book for most patients. Like, yes, there are
definitely things that you shouldn’t do, but for the most part, even something
as routine as like treating hypertension, you have so many different ways to
approach it for a particular patient.
And it’s really. An art of how you do this. And I think that
this is what this game is really best at doing and showing how, like, most
people say, like, where are the answers to the cards? Like, where do I look up
these connections, how one card connects to the other, and that’s the whole
point. Like you need to get out of that mentality because like that.
It’s far from how the real world is. And I think the more we
get comfortable with discomfort, this is where we grow, and this is how
innovations happen in medicine and so on. I think that’s pretty
Joyce Wahba: [00:14:09]
parallel to fake it till you make it. It’s just like, yeah, this connects
totally smiles and nods.
Dave Etler: [00:14:16]
When you began your residency journey the residency portion of your
journey, in the past year.
You had this theory
about how these connections work. I mean, you pretty much knew that that was
true, but where are you at some point? Were you ever like, okay, thank God. Now
that I’m doing this for. Living, it actually turns out to be true.
Paulius Mui: [00:14:36]
Yeah. It’s amazing. It really is amazing.
I still can’t believe it that this, this is so rewarding to
have gone through med school and now I’ll be doing it in real life. And Oh yeah. And I mean, I went to school
late. Like I, you know, in my twenties I
kind of explored other things and , I got to know myself really well. And then
I was pretty certain that medicine was for me, but just, , Being out in the
real world and experiencing, and having that privilege to, to just have
patients really listen to what you say because their health is in your hands.
I think that’s really cool.
Dave Etler: [00:15:08]
You know, I’ve had, you know, I don’t want to brag, but I have had a few really
good product ideas in the past.
Paulius Mui: [00:15:17]
Oh, no, I think I’ve heard some,
Dave Etler: [00:15:21]
for instance, I probably talked about them on the show. I did have an idea for
a wearable airbag for motorcyclists, which is actually a thing it’s like an
Joyce Wahba: [00:15:29]
avalanche bag.
Yeah. They have like these backpacks
Dave Etler: [00:15:32]
yes, exactly. My other, really, really good idea that I never. I’m waving
around a screwdriver, why… My other, other really, really good idea was the
ejection seat for motorcyclists, which for some reason, like if you get, if you
find it in, in trouble, you know, you would eject you from the motorcycle, get
you out of harm’s way.
For some reason when I mentioned this to people. Nobody
liked that.
AJ Chowdhury: [00:15:57]
Well, does it come with an extra optional purchase of a parachute so that you
land safely?
Dave Etler: [00:16:03]
Yeah. Well, one of the, yeah, that was a great idea. I mean, I supposed, it was
better than, you know, smashing into something I’m patenting that right after
Alex Belzer: [00:16:10]
this.
Okay. Give everybody
a jet pack all the time. Yeah. Same thing.
AJ Chowdhury: [00:16:16]
Pretty much the same thing. Or we could
Alex Belzer: [00:16:19]
genetically push evolution so that everybody can fly. Okay.
Dave Etler: [00:16:22]
That’s a little more complicated than than making a card game , or even making a, an ejection seat.
Somebody did point out to me the bridge
overpass problem with my ejection seat.
So percentage that’s when I abandoned. That’s when I
abandoned the idea, what
Alex Belzer: [00:16:38]
percentage of roads are actually caused by, or our roads are covered by an
overpass. I dunno, like less than
Dave Etler: [00:16:44]
0.5%. That’s a good point. Yeah. That was a good point. I should have brought
that up while your
AJ Chowdhury: [00:16:49]
product could drive a lot of business towards Joyce.
Alex Belzer: [00:16:52]
That’s true.
Joyce Wahba: [00:16:54]
Always looking for new patients.
Dave Etler: [00:17:14] I’m proud of you.
Paulius. I’m proud that you were able
to, to come up with this and bring it to
some sort of fruition. So let’s try this out. First of all, I’m going to awkwardly. Run around and rearrange cameras so you guys
can fill while I do this .
Paulius Mui: [00:17:29]
So how are you guys feeling? Tell me
what your experience has been so far. Have you like looked at the box or the
instructions or any, or, you know, nothing I’ve seen the outside of the box. I
think the box is big vibes, really
Alex Belzer: [00:17:44]
very pastel. That’s that’s all I got. I really read two wait three sides of the
box.
That’s about it. They’re six, five, five. I’m at five. I haven’t
seen the bottom. Is there anything on the bottom? There is no, let’s go. Can
you go see the, it looks like a nutrition label. It
Paulius Mui: [00:18:03]
does. I like
AJ Chowdhury: [00:18:03]
it.
Paulius Mui: [00:18:03]
Is this good for your health? Paulius you know, I can’t make any substantial
claims, but I
Joyce Wahba: [00:18:09]
also, how badly am I going to be embarrassed by this?
If I haven’t done any clinical care since like October and
haven’t taken step two you since like, before that
Paulius Mui: [00:18:18]
this is okay. We’ve played with non-medical people. And, I think it’s pretty interesting. I think, I
think this is more about a different way to think and a way to teach each
other. And just like in real life, you can look stuff up.
And I think the, you know, the whole idea is to just
generate a conversation that otherwise wouldn’t happen. And, , I think as long
as it’s. Somewhat, you know, it’s like,
was it, it was saying, you know, like, , does, is this supposed to help
you learn medicine better? I mean, I think it’s just going back to one of those
things where it’s just an excuse for you to not feel pressured, to just always
grind.
And this is just like giving yourself the permission to hang
out. And if you learn something along the way great. But if you just end up
like hanging out with people and you know, talking about some medical things, I
think that is. Okay. Just like what you’re doing with the podcast. I think
you’re taking, you know, you’re setting an hour aside to do something that is
not just, you know, scrolling through a computer and clicking on answer
choices.
I think so that’s part of it. Wait,
Alex Belzer: [00:19:23]
so you’re saying that we don’t have to memorize that the Philadelphia chromosome
translocation is nine and 22. You’re saying that we can just look that up
Paulius Mui: [00:19:32]
cause they asked. Yeah. So it’s part of the system. That’s part of the system.
Yeah, there were patients give us
AJ Chowdhury: [00:19:40]
five multiple choice answers for their diagnosis.
By the way, we had our first physical SPs, the three M1s in
the room last week. And we were, we were definitely getting softballs like I
have a history of reactive airway disease. Hah.
Dave Etler: [00:20:01]
Yeah. And you do your best. All right.
So I have awkwardly set up the camera. We’ve got this top-down view of, the
table. So, what do we do? How do we
start? What’s going on? Polly’s give us the, give us all
Paulius Mui: [00:20:12]
right. Okay. So, well, , Open up the
Dave Etler: [00:20:14]
box. Oh, yep. It’s important to,
Paulius Mui: [00:20:17]
and everyone in the room is going to play.
Right. So I cannot play cause I
Dave Etler: [00:20:21]
need to run things over here. I realized I wanted to, Oh
Paulius Mui: [00:20:24]
my gosh. Okay. All right. Well, we’ll do another round later for you.
Dave Etler: [00:20:26]
If I can see on my monitor, maybe I can
Paulius Mui: [00:20:29]
see it. This is maybe what you could do is you could turn the box over and
just, spill the cards on the table and
then, , shuffle them up.
We can just exactly
mix them up like that, but there were different colors, the cards. And so
that’s also on the top of the box. And so the way that the game is set up is
that it has. 280 cards that we selected very meticulously to represent the
foundations of medical knowledge.
And so they’re roughly grouped into five categories. And ,
if you look at the box, it goes from the
peach to purple. , going outside in. And so the cards that have, and you can flip one or two over just to get
a sense of like what’s on there, but exactly. So let’s say vascular valvular
heart disease.
Right? So, so that’s , blue card. So that’s a diagnosis
card. So what if we, if we look at the each cards there signs and symptoms, the
yellow ones are the. Tests the workup, essentially, that exactly that you would
order like an ultrasound and then the green ones are the results of different
tests that would come back to you.
So what does that one say? Hyper or hypochloremia. Right. So
if you order a BMP, you know, you would
see what the chloride levels are. Then the, you already showed, , blue
card, which is a diagnosis card, and then the purple cards are the treatment
cards. So that’s. Metronidozole exactly. So like, for example, what do you
guys, when you see metronidozole what do you think of anything random comes to
mind?
There’s a Z in that word.
Okay.
Alex Belzer: [00:22:02]
Hazel, some kind of a proton pump inhibitor.
AJ Chowdhury: [00:22:06]
We have not learned that yet.
Paulius Mui: [00:22:10]
That’s really interesting. Actually, that’s one of those instances where like
omeprazole is a PPI, but, metronidozole
is actually not it’s an anti- I think parasitic technically, , because it used
to for like anaerobic, or I guess
antibacterial, you know, use for,
anaerobic, infections, like.
Bacterial vaginosis,
for example. , but anyway, so, so you have these cards and the beauty, I think
of this game, you know, patting myself on the back is that, these are building blocks of medical
knowledge, right? And you can discover learning just by playing. And it’s very
modular. So it’s almost like those Lego toy pieces that you can, essentially,
, follow an instruction manual to build something very specific or, you
know, once you’ve like have a bunch of Lego bricks, you can kind of create your
own thing and you can do what you want
with it.
And so same here, like we have these cards and we’ve created
a number of ways that. You can follow our instructions and play whether you
want to make it a competitive or a collaborative experience. If you have 15
minutes to play versus you have an hour to play. And I really encourage you to
take a look through the instructions on our website at some point, just to get
an idea of how you can play, but every time we’ve showed this game to somebody
they’ve.
Adapted it and created their own rules to play. Like they
want to like, even somebody, one of the, , attendings at another school
actually said that they would pick out the cards that are related to the
patients on their service, and then use those cards to kind of, take the game
based approach to learning about their patients and generating discussion,
because you are going to be vulnerable when you try to explain things and
you’re still learning.
But at the same time for people, for educators, it’s a
really good opportunity to identify what you don’t know in real time and that’s a space for, teaching you exactly where you’re at. You
know, cause sometimes with the lecture hall there might, you might be, you
know, giving the, the information only to segment of the people.
That’s the right information at that time. But a lot of
people might be, you know, you might be overshooting or undershooting
sometimes. Any questions about those basic ideas?
Alex Belzer: [00:24:25]
Sounds like I’m going to do a lot of finding out what I don’t
Paulius Mui: [00:24:27]
know. That’s exactly right. Yeah. And I think about it. Yeah, no, I that’s
exactly it.
I think that’s a very sharp,
perception. And, and I don’t know if you’ve had that feeling too. Like,
I mean, we kind of joked about this, but when, like you do, you know, like I
said of UWorld questions, I don’t know if you, you guys have not gotten into it
yet. Right? The, uh, ones, but it’s like a, you know, Q bank, , like you would
do Kaplan for MCAT or something like that.
, and you know, you get up, like you do like a set of 20 or
40 questions at a time, and then you get feedback of like, how many did you get
right wrong? And it’s like very demoralizing sometimes to get more than half
incorrect or whatever. Right. But if you think about it, like that is really
good because you did not waste your time.
You actually like struggled and you realized that this is
how much you did not know. And ultimately that’s for the better, because if
you’re just cruising and, you know, missing only one or two questions, you kind
of wasting your time, you know? Cause you’re already know that’s 90% or
whatnot. That
Joyce Wahba: [00:25:32]
is such a positive way to look at blocks where you get 40%.
That is definitely not what I was going through stuff when
you did it. And you’re just like, dang it
Paulius Mui: [00:25:42]
exactly. It’s cause you learn 60%, right?
Joyce Wahba: [00:25:46]
It’s like, wow, such a learning opportunity.
Alex Belzer: [00:25:49]
Well
Paulius Mui: [00:25:50]
development. I mean, I just tend to, I think lean and over optimistic zone, but
it’s. It’s carried me this far and that’s just who I am.
I think that’s
Dave Etler: [00:26:02]
beautiful. All right, we’ll get into it. Let’s see.
Paulius Mui: [00:26:03]
Let’s do it. Okay. So you’ve, you’ve shuffled the cards. So why don’t each of
you, draw? , let’s say why don’t we do
five cards. For example, guys are
Dave Etler: [00:26:13]
meticulously picking up.
Paulius Mui: [00:26:15]
Can we look at them? Yeah. So why don’t
you take a look and it’s okay for, I think maybe show me the card so that I can
see if you’ve shuffled them fairly.
Okay though, where it’s not like everyone has one color.
Okay, perfect. So, , for this first, so the way you would play, right? Like if
you’ve dealt these cards out, so, Joyce,
do you like, can I ask you to, for example, , when I go first, would you be
okay with that?
Okay. So what you all could do is, , make some space in the
middle where you’re going to build your connections. And then some, some basic
ideas of how the connections work. So for example, also somebody just can, , pull out a random
card and put it in the middle. Exactly. CSF. Okay. So do you guys know what
that is?
Cerebral spinal fluid. Exactly. Yep. And
Dave Etler: [00:27:05]
camaraderie,
Paulius Mui: [00:27:07]
you know that? I did know that. Yeah.
Dave Etler: [00:27:11]
Look, a lot of you dude works at
Paulius Mui: [00:27:13]
a medical school. He’s a medical educator. There’ll be some. The thing is that
you’ll need to look up. Cause as M1s, you’ve just not been exposed to some of
these abbreviations and so on. And so like “metropablanopzole”
Dave Etler: [00:27:26]
absolve or whatever.
Paulius Mui: [00:27:32]
So, okay. So let’s say, and you know,
depending on how competitive you want to get, like, we, we could give like a
time limit per turn or whatnot, but. For now, , maybe we can just like try
without too, too much intensity. So the way the connections basically work is
that you can put your card on either
edge of, , another card.
So the connections would work, , essentially, you know, top
or bottom or side to side, but the diagonals don’t need to connect in a
sense. And if you have only the cards
that are directly touching should have some sort of connection that you
explain. So for example, if you have, you know, like three cards in a row, the
first card and the third card don’t have to directly connect, like they can,
but you don’t have to.
So it’s really all about the immediate connections. This is
that’s the basic principle. Does that make sense? Yep. Okay. All right. So
Joyce, so why don’t you look at your cards and you know, why don’t we take like
30 seconds or so, and see what things you could connect to the card in the
middle right now using your cards.
And you can use
Joyce Wahba: [00:28:39]
one. These are going to be a gigantic stretch.
Paulius Mui: [00:28:42]
And, and that’s that’s okay. And that can be part of the conversation. Like if
this is something that is maybe borderline not true or
then the group can say, all right, like we’re not buying it
or we need to double check and look it up and then you’ll just take those cards
back and it’ll be someone else’s turn. Yo, Paulius,
Joyce Wahba: [00:29:03]
well, yes, if you weren’t here, I would be the one with the most medical
knowledge, I could say whatever I want and they just be like,
“uh-huh!”
Paulius Mui: [00:29:08]
I mean, technically, yes.
Joyce Wahba: [00:29:12]
I’m just kidding. I’m going to play
cirrhosis,
Paulius Mui: [00:29:15]
play as many cars as you feel comfortable with with that current hand. So you
could, you know, if, if you, okay. So I actually, when I see this, I’m not
really like nothing jumps out at me immediately, but. Well, let’s say, if you
don’t want to play any other cards, then after you’ve set your cards down, then
you get to explain what the connection is.
And you can take as much time to do that. And you can like
use your phone if you wanted to. I mean, these are the rules you could create
amongst yourselves, but so like what teaching point would you share with
somebody about CSF and cirrhosis?
Dave Etler: [00:29:49]
I’m going to translate that. What bullshit
Joyce Wahba: [00:29:55]
I don’t quite see the connection there. He would say something on rounds and
they ask you a question and you just BS your way through it. And they’re just
like,
AJ Chowdhury: [00:30:06]
why don’t you make a report about this to present tomorrow?
Paulius Mui: [00:30:09]
Go ahead.
Joyce Wahba: [00:30:10]
Um this is an absolute stretch, but CSF, the F stands for fluid. Cirrhosis. You
have really bad, like alcoholic cirrhosis, and you get like some ascetes goin’,
then that’s also a fluid, AKA, this is a really big stretch. I don’t have a lot.
In my card,
Paulius Mui: [00:30:29]
you did it, Joyce,
Dave Etler: [00:30:32]
mildly, you did a
Joyce Wahba: [00:30:33]
great is like, eh, take it back
Dave Etler: [00:30:37]
to do that. My understanding is that,
this is a, a game of spurious connections, even, you know, sometimes
we’re here to be freethinkers.
Alex Belzer: [00:30:45]
Right?
Paulius Mui: [00:30:46]
Exactly. I mean, I think, I think. This is a good connection to start with.
I think it’s a little bit of a soft connection, but I think
it’s a really interesting way to think. Cause I would not have put these down
cause I just, I wasn’t thinking the way you did. So. But the way you explained
it actually made me think that one thing that I, for example, and like, I’m not
that far from you guys in training, but what I would try to teach on top of
that if I was a more seasoned attending, I would say, okay.
So when we think about ascieties and cirrhosis, You want to
think about the sag that it’s like?
Serum albumin to ascieties gradient. And if it’s like greater than 1.1,
you want to think that the ascieties is caused by portal hypertension. So
that’s like one idea and I have to double check myself with what I told you is
true, but the there’s this calculation that you can do based on the fluid to
tell you where it’s coming from.
And then, , you want to also potentially think about, like with ascieties, you’re testing it for
bacteria because you’re looking for something called spontaneous bacterial
peritonitis. And if you have, like, I don’t know, Joyce, you remember, it’s
like, if you have more than 250 neutrophils, then like you want to start
antibiotics and you have like a higher, you know, and that’s the diagnosis for
it.
The same way that you test CSF for bacteria that, indicates that you want to start antibiotics
for example. That was beautiful. Genius. Yeah, that’s kind of the idea. And
then like, if we, if I was playing with you guys, we try to pull up the sag
ratio and see what we can remind each other about that. And that’s pretty much
it.
And so who’s setting to your left. We can have. Okay, Alex.
So why don’t you try next? Do I draw a new card since I played one? , so you
don’t have to, because the idea would be to try to get rid of your cards first.
So if Alex can play all five of his, you know, then boom game over in a sense,
right.
But this is like the version. So this, this version is
called flash rounds in a way that in a hospital you can kind of do flash rounds
where you just like . Quickly talk about the patient and like, don’t go too
much into the detail.
Alex Belzer: [00:32:54]
Okay. So I think I’m gonna play multiple cards. You got dizziness on CSF and we
got anti-histamine on cirrhosis and.
Dave Etler: [00:33:04]
Going for it, ladies and gentlemen, I think I’m going to, like, I’m going to
put this
Alex Belzer: [00:33:06]
exciting. Would’ve put magnesemia on cirrhosis as well. And I think, well
actually, but say like, can I attach things to
Paulius Mui: [00:33:15]
cards that I yeah, so exactly you can. Yeah and
Alex Belzer: [00:33:19]
that’s all the cards in my hand that I know what they mean.
So, so here we go. So CSF is related to dizziness. Cause if
you have too much CSF, in your ventricles, then you can push on the vestibular
nuclei and make some weird stuff, go on and get dizzy. Cirrhosis is a liver issue. , and I’m
guessing that in some way, the liver is related to the metabolism of magnesium.
So if you have cirrhosis and you have decreased liver
function and maybe you can get magnesemia
the anti-histamines, I know that
there is some processing of antihistamine drugs that is done by the liver, ,
which might be screwed up in cirrhosis. And then with cellulitis, I know that
the wheel and flare reaction that’s associated with, , the type one
hypersensitivity, , Is in the skin and if you have cellulitis, then you might
have more skin destruction.
When you have a histamine release in the type one
hypersensitivity. So anti-histamines, I don’t know how to finish that thought,
but there’s, there’s a, there’s
Dave Etler: [00:34:26]
a connection there. I promise. I just want to say that that was a lot of words.
That sounded great. Thanks,
Paulius Mui: [00:34:33]
Dave.
Anybody can feel free to fact check me.
Alex Belzer: [00:34:41]
You’ve done. Good. Thank you. I would’ve played this card too, but I don’t even
know what this card means.
Paulius Mui: [00:34:45]
Yeah, it’s
Joyce Wahba: [00:34:47]
a ARB. So it’s like a hypertension medication. That’s exactly right. Okay.
Cool.
Paulius Mui: [00:34:53]
Angiotensin receptor blocker. Yeah. Okay. So by the way, your connections were
awesome. I think the only, like all of them were really creative and you did it
in a way that I think like wasn’t the first thing that comes to mind.
One thing that I would say we should double check is, magnesium and cirrhosis. Like one thing that
I think of, , I think magnesium might, I think it’s a kidney that it will be
filtered through. , but I do think that. The cirrhosis and mag levels are you
tend to have low mag in people with liver disease.
And I think, I don’t know if it’s just due to poor nutrition
or other, like as just an associated thing. That’s what I think of, but the way
I would double check it is just, you know, either Google or PubMed, magnesium
and cirrhosis and see what comes up. And it actually has been a really
interesting way for me to read a lot of pub med articles.
Like just get to explore the
Dave Etler: [00:35:49]
connections. You know, , I will jump in with my knowledge and say that, magnesium deficiency is commonly associated.
As you said, with, liver diseases and
may result from low nutrient uptake. Like you suggested things like greater urinary
secretion, low serum, albumin,
concentration, hormone inactivation.
So yeah,
Alex Belzer: [00:36:06]
it seems like it Dave, the
Dave Etler: [00:36:08]
cuff. Yeah, I had all that knowledge in my
not
Paulius Mui: [00:36:12]
holding his phone up. He is pub med. So is AJ next? Yeah, I am.
Alex Belzer: [00:36:21]
All
AJ Chowdhury: [00:36:21]
right, so asthma and anti-histamine. There you go.
Joyce Wahba: [00:36:26]
Beautiful. I got that one. You have asthma, or you
Paulius Mui: [00:36:28]
understand that
Dave Etler: [00:36:31]
in this deck and
AJ Chowdhury: [00:36:33]
Magnesemia and arrhythmia, those are the connections that I can make.
So with asthma, you can have allergy induced asthma, which
you can treat with anti-histamines and arrhythmias. I know nothing about the
heart, but I know that electrolytes can mess with the rhythm of the heart. So
that’s my connection. There.
Paulius Mui: [00:36:56]
That’s that’s amazing. So good. So like, if you, for example, if Dave was, , an
award winning, , faculty attendings specializing in asthma, you know, he would
prompt you to probably say something along the lines of like, What specific
antihistamine would you use and what would be the dosing like to just push your
knowledge to the next level, if this was like a, you know, a teaching session.
, so that’s one way to kind of explore and deepen and challenge yourself, you
know? Yeah. This
Dave Etler: [00:37:26]
is pretty cool. Magnesium deficiency does, increase irregular heartbeats.
Paulius Mui: [00:37:31]
So yeah. Yeah. So actually that, that is a really cool connection because. With torsades, which is this rhythm it’s if
you look up torsades, it’s like twisting of the points from French.
It is when you’re, , just, you’re pretty much close to
dying, but the way to treat that is that you give a lot of magnesium And interestingly magnesium, I don’t
know, Joyce, if this rings a bell, , how
it acts as a calcium channel blocker. And,
that’s why it kind of blocks the, the rhythm that’s of the torsades and
actually, you know, stabilizes the heart just filed that away
Dave Etler: [00:38:10]
for four, , three months from now when she’s day one on her, her roof.
Have you
Paulius Mui: [00:38:32]
guys
Alex Belzer: [00:38:32]
seen the videos where people will. Like, you know, there’s hyperlinks and
Wikipedia pages. And so people will try to like, yeah, speed run from like Ben
Shapiro’s Wikipedia page to like Sonic the hedgehog just by like going through
and like clicking stuff, that’s embedded
in the Wikipedia page.
Cause like there’s this virtual network of Wikipedia pages
and they’re all connected somehow. , this is exactly what that reminds me of
except with medical knowledge and these nifty little cute cards.
Paulius Mui: [00:39:04]
Awesome. All right. Nolan, right? Is
that yeah.
Nolan Redetzke: [00:39:07]
So I’m going to go with ACS, which I had to look up, but acute coronary
syndrome, Hey, there you go.
And that could
be, causing an arrhythmia. But also off of that, , cortisol could be a
triggering. Triggering that, but then off of cortisol, we have
which is the excess cortisol, , causing that.
Paulius Mui: [00:39:30]
So, yeah. Nice that’s work. Yeah. I mean, you’re getting the hang of it. And so
that’s the idea is that. You, you know, explore what you don’t know together.
And you’re somewhat vulnerable because like, I mean, it’s, you know, like you
guys somewhat know each other.
I don’t know if you’ve hung out before, but yeah, but like
that’s. You know, it takes a lot of courage, I think, to do that because we,
you know, often in like lectures, you just sit and listen, and then if you’re
answering anything, a lot of it is just like on your computer and you click
away, like, yeah, you might have some like,
I think we call them PBLs where you have to like Work together through like multiple choice questions or
whatnot.
But this is, I think just really pushing you to that next
level of, , exploring what being vulnerable and learning. I was actually
Alex Belzer: [00:40:18]
curious about the cortisol can connect a precipitate. Like if you had just had
like cortisol rush, can that precipitate,
acute coronary
Paulius Mui: [00:40:25]
syndrome? I don’t know if it would precipitate it.
I often think that if
you’re having a, so ACS, acute coronary syndrome can, you could have, ,
Multiple things that go under it, but something like a STEMI, right? You have
an ST elevation MI and if what I would connect cortisol to is that you’re, you
know, you’re stressing your body and your natural response is going to release
some cortisol levels.
And so it’s more of a response to that. That makes sense. I
would think so. , but, and I mean, you could also think about that. Why are you
having MI and is it related to, , like myocarditis for example, and, you would treat myocarditis. Actually, I
don’t remember if you would give steroids, but you could kind of like, kind of
go down that path.
And this is a good opportunity. Like, like, like I maybe
should be knowing this, but, , like I admit, I don’t remember. And so I would
go ahead and PubMed it or look it up and see what I can learn or maybe they’ve
already looking things up. So,
Dave Etler: [00:41:21]
I’m not, I’ve exhausted my data cap during today’s show. Well, this is, this is
great.
I kind of enjoyed watching these guys go through it. And,
talk about the connections. Love the idea. before we end the show, though, I
wanted to, I would be remiss if I didn’t put you on the spot a little bit.
Wait, can we
AJ Chowdhury: [00:41:41]
take a second on the box at the bottom? It says distributed by low yield
productions, LLC.
That is amazing.
Dave Etler: [00:41:52]
Good one.
Paulius Mui: [00:41:54]
Appreciate you noticing that. Yeah, I mean, yeah,
we
Alex Belzer: [00:42:02]
all get it though. We all get it.
Dave Etler: [00:42:05]
Beautiful. Yeah. So anyway, I’d be
remiss if I didn’t put you on the spot to ask you how your first year went in
the middle of a pandemic polys. ,
Paulius Mui: [00:42:15]
well, I think overall it went really well. Obviously. I I’m still here. I’m
smiling. , I learned a lot, , you know, I, so I’m in a family medicine program
and it’s a lovely place it’s located at the entrance of a national park.
Yeah, it’s all those
things. Yeah. They really make it easier to, I think, tolerate residency, but I
I’m surrounded by. Great co-residents which I think make all the difference.
And the pandemic has definitely changed how, , the things that normally happen.
They didn’t for us There’s that. Social dynamic that really suffered, I think
for everybody.
But like in our program, we have end of block resident
parties. Whereas someone just get, you know, we get together and go to a park,
get food, or do some activity together. So those are on hold. And because of
that, we don’t get to see each other’s families and significant others. And so
on. I think the patient interactions are certainly different.
Like, you know, and family med it, we see like acute urgent
cases and we see chronic disease, you know, patients with chronic illnesses and
manage those. And with the, with COVID a lot of the people with acute
complaints, like those numbers have
decreased. So I think that really impacted directly what.
What kind of, , chief complaints I was getting experience
with and a lot of the people like we have a cold clinic section, so you, some
of the patients are like, triaged for
you to only be taken care of respiratory issues. And so, you know, like that’s
not how normally things are. You just kind of adapt and work with that. I
think, it was also, you know, like at
the beginning everybody’s wearing masks and you like don’t know what the other
people look like. It was really kind of interesting.
Dave Etler: [00:44:05]
Gotten really good at recognizing people by their eyeballs only.
Joyce Wahba: [00:44:08]
It’s gonna be a shock to the system to see the rest of their face, who are you!
Paulius Mui: [00:44:14]
Okay. And I mean, they’re also, you know, A component of like taking care of
COVID patients. And like, this is very much like I’m in the middle of this
thing that is global. , and, actually
like it’s, it’s your first that you’re–I remember, you know, reading, hearing
about it and then.
Now I have patients with COVID on my list and I’m rounding
on them and I’m trying to like be safe and like always wondering like, like,
did I like wash my hands enough to like, you know, like, am I at risk or
whatnot, but certainly, I don’t know. You know, this is my experience. I think
overall it’s been really, really great.
And, like I’ve
gotten, The vaccines and feel a lot more
comfortable now, you know, and so on, but still, like, I don’t think we’re
we’re done yet when it comes to letting our guard down. Yeah.
Dave Etler: [00:45:06]
Joyce, here is an M4 going into emergency medicine, your family medicine.
Resonant different specialty, but any advice for Joyce, as she looks forward to starting her new job
in July.
Paulius Mui: [00:45:18]
Congratulations. Where will you be? Joyce Harbor. UCLA. Oh, so awesome. Wow. I
mean, I think it’s a, it’s a tough question. Like to broadly, you know, give
advice. I think, I think that things
that have gotten you this far, you’re just going to continue to do, and like,
that’s like. You know, , I think you still like the learning curve I imagined
was going to be like insurmountable, but it really isn’t too bad.
I think everybody has gone through this process who’s become
a doctor and people relate to that experience of you being a new physician. I
think, try to, I don’t know if you like the journal or reflect, but like, I
still remember when I placed my first order ever as a physician. And like, it
wasn’t like a Turkey sandwich.
It was like a CBC. It was like a three year old and they
were sick, but like not really like toxic. And I was like, I don’t know if I
should get this, like, this will hurt them. Like, you know, on peds we usually
try to just like, be more conservative and, and actually started out my first
rotation in the ed.
And that was really, really cool. And like, you’re going to
have all these experiences, like I remember. There was a patient who I don’t
even remember. It was like they were dizzy maybe and I did my like neuro assessment and it was
kind of normal, but then I had them walk and something was off.
Like their gate was strange and I was like, okay, we
probably need to like, get an MRI and my attending, , I was like, yeah, just do
it. And I’m like, aren’t you going to go in like, double check what I told you.
And I was like, wait really? And then, and then, yeah. And you’re like fitting
in this MRI. I’m like, Oh my gosh.
It’s like 2000 or something dollars. I’m like this one click
is going to change. Like what happens to this person? And then now, you know,
like you’re just ordering CTS and everything left and right. And so, like, I
just think that this is such an exciting part of your growth that like,
appreciate it. Enjoy it.
Take like, like care for yourself. Like, don’t forget your
priorities. Like I know that’s my, like, I think. The same advice that anybody
like going through med school, too, like enjoy the process and, and, you know,
like if it, if you don’t have to do residency the way that everybody else does
residency, I think just find what works for you and take care of yourself.
Like along the process.
Dave Etler: [00:47:39]
That sounds like fantastic advice. , well, I mean, so Paulius , getting back to
the game, where can people find out
Paulius Mui: [00:47:45]
more about table rounds? Well, you could
check out our website, usually have all of our information there. It’s, it’s
play table rounds.com and, , hopefully, you know, you’ll see your classmates
playing it, and if you don’t see them, tell them about them. We’re doing some
research with this game to just see if it can be part of a curricula in
different places. Yeah. So feel free to explore and I’m available for contact.
You can share my email if people want to email me, my email is Paulius@bu.edu
and I’m happy to answer any questions.
I really appreciate you guys having me on and being you
know, courageous to try the game and. Yeah. Thanks. Good idea. For the game.
Joyce Wahba: [00:48:27]
I think it would be kind of funny or fun to have like joker cards. This could
be just like a little tiny starter pack on the side where it’s just like random
words that people have to connect. Like. Donut or something like that where it’s
just like, okay, I have a Metformin. Okay. Diabetes, some like random, like
everyday objects or something like that, that you just have to like throw in
Dave Etler: [00:48:48]
there.
Nice. There you go. Love it.
Paulius Mui: [00:48:52]
We’ll have to call it that Joyce’s dresses edition.
Dave Etler: [00:48:59]
Well, thank you so much for being with us today on the Short Coat Podcast, it’s
been a lot of fun. And that’s our show. Joyce AJ, Alex, Nolan. Thank you for
being on the show with me today.
AJ Chowdhury: [00:49:07]
Thanks for having us. Thanks for being so I don’t know.
Alex Belzer: [00:49:10]
Insert good adjective here. Okay.
Dave Etler: [00:49:12]
I will take it. And what kind of jerk would I be if I didn’t?
Thank you, Short Coats, for making us part of your week. If
you’re new and you like what you heard today, subscribe to our show. Wherever
fine podcasts are available. Our editors
are AJ Chowdhury and Eric Boeshart, and Alex Belzer is our marketing
coordinator.
The show is made possible by a generous donation by Carver
college of medicine, student government, and ongoing support from the writing
and humanities program. Our music is by Dr. Fox and Catmosphere. I’m Dave,
Etler saying don’t let the bastards get you down. Talk to you in one week
You deserve to be happy and healthy. If you’re struggling with racism, harassment, hate, your mental health, or some other crisis, visit http://theshortcoat.com/help, and send additions to the resources there to theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love you.
The New Medical Student: Tips and Tricks from First-Years
Apr 22, 2021
A new group of co-hosts, all M1s, discuss what it’s been like to start medical school (in a pandemic).
TL;DR
We discuss what our new co-hosts, all M1s, learned about themselves and med school this year.
Did they prepare or study before they started school in the fall?
And very important: what flatulence schedule would they prefer?
Steph Rodriguez, Zain Mehdi, Martin Goree, and Carl Skoog are approaching the end of that stressful first year of medical school. Dave seized the opportunity to talk about the things many incoming students might want to know about starting medical school in the coming year. We talk about whether to prepare before school starts, what sacrifices they feel they made to study medicine, what they’ve struggle with and what was easier than expected, and whether in the midst of a lot more online learning than they were used to, did they find their people among their classmates.
Dave likes getting to know people, so he also posed some Would You Rather questions in the hopes of revealing things about his new co-hosts.
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What an AI thinks we said
Dave Etler: [00:00:00] Welcome back to the short code podcast, a production of the university of Iowa Carver college of medicine. I’m Dave Etler. With me today in the studio and live streaming on our Facebook group, the short code student lounge, it’s all first year med students, Steph Rodriguez joins us in the form of ones and zeros here in the studio. It’s Zane Medi. They do that right. Uh, Martin Gorey is here What’s going on in the man whose last name should absolutely be a verb. It’s Carl Skoog. Uh, guys, if Carl’s last name was a verb or a descriptive noun and Carl, you don’t get to answer this because that’s not how this works. If Carl’s last name was a verb or whatever, what would it mean? Carl Skoog: [00:01:12] It’s kind of like a snail. That’s like scooping along on the ground, you know, it’s like a little slimy, but it’s like it’s Dave Etler: [00:01:19] yeah, Zain Mehdi: [00:01:20] yeah. And you have the answer quick. Yeah, Martin Goree: [00:01:23] I thought about this. I Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:01:29] was thinking more of like a scoop, like ice cream now, like he’s scooping ladies away and scooping ice cream and all that Dave Etler: [00:01:36] scooping ladies away. Is that what you’re busy scooping them, ladies away. Those ladies, they got schooled. Did you get, did did school cause you to get made fun of did that not really Martin Goree: [00:01:52] made fun of, but mispronounced like more than you would imagine. Dave Etler: [00:01:55] What kind of name is scoop? I’d Swedish. I knew, I think Martin Goree: [00:01:59] it, I think it has some sort of, like, I think it’s a noun actually like means something about the forest or something like that. Oh, don’t quote me because I’m not Dave Etler: [00:02:07] a hundred percent sure. But I’ve said this on the show before. Do you know what Etler means in Turkish? I don’t remember now. Steph looked like she was about to guess. Do you, like an animal Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:02:17] is a, like a, like a biking. Dave Etler: [00:02:21] That was another one. Antler. Thank you. No, it means meats in Turkish. If you look up Etler on Google and look at image search, you’ll see a lot of pictures of cuts of meat. Interesting. Zain Mehdi: [00:02:33] It’s very different. Martin Goree: [00:02:35] And have you had a nice Etler? Dave Etler: [00:02:39] Oh wow. All Etler is delicious. Zain Mehdi: [00:02:42] It is. It looks just like any meat. It’s just like meat. Dave Etler: [00:02:44] I think it’s just meats, like , uh, the general category. No, Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:02:51] it looks good. I’m looking at these pictures right now and they’re like fat, meaty. Well, Dave Etler: [00:02:56] that’s all true. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:03:04] I’m going to tell her shop to go get us some Etler. Dave Etler: [00:03:07] Yes. I’m so glad. We’ve got a bunch of em, ones today who are also new podcasters as your first year , uh, rushes to a close. I thought we should take some time to talk about that. Let’s give the listeners a sense of what it was like to , um, Oh , uh, yeah, because you know, what’s , uh, Courtney, thank you. Um, because I forgot that I have control over cameras. And so Stephanie has been the only person , uh, is there we go. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:03:33] They only see my face. They’re only seeing Dave Etler: [00:03:35] your face for a long time. I hope you didn’t pick your nose. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:03:38] I started like dancing and everything. Martin Goree: [00:03:41] Wheat. Dave Etler: [00:03:44] Thank you, Courtney, for , uh, calling the out. Is that the Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:03:46] one live Dave Etler: [00:03:46] person? No, there’s a few people now. My mom not joined in yet. What’s your mom’s name is your mom’s name? Uh, David Kelly or Garrett. Etler well Carl Skoog: [00:04:00] like a burner Facebook account. Yeah. Dave Etler: [00:04:02] Uh, anyway , uh, I would like to give the listeners a sense of what it was like for you to enter medical school, what you didn’t know , um, what you did know. Barry, what you didn’t know what you know now , um, which should be relevant and useful for once , uh, on the podcast. But also want to get to know you better since it’s your first time here and , uh, for several of you, my actual first time meeting you. So let’s start. Where did you go to undergrad? What did you study? Um, Oh, David Kelly says lies. I am her mother. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:04:31] I’m obviously not dad. Fans not know what to do with technology. I would have to set it up for her. Dave Etler: [00:04:37] Uh, where did you go to undergrad and what did you say we’ll start with , uh, we’ll start with you Carl. Sure. Martin Goree: [00:04:42] So I went to university of Iowa for undergrad. So I am in Iowa city in, at this point, I guess you could say. Okay. But I studied biomedical science Dave Etler: [00:04:51] and graduated in 2020. All right. Uh, uh, Martin. All right, Carl Skoog: [00:04:54] well, I’m from Iowa city originally. I moved to St. Louis. I went to wash U for undergrad. I graduated in 2019. Um, but I’ve returned to the Dave Etler: [00:05:00] nest. Okay. Uh, Zane, Zain Mehdi: [00:05:02] um, I went to cor Cornell university, upstate New York for undergrad and studied double major in bio and English. And then I graduated last year in 20, 20 everyone’s favorite year Dave Etler: [00:05:16] and stuff. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:05:17] Um, I am from the suburbs near Chicago. And so I went to Loyola, Chicago. I did biochemistry psychology. Um, it’s really cool that you did English major is saying, because then you can like, look at my essays since they are horrible and I don’t know what to do with them. So Dave Etler: [00:05:34] good to know. Well, we can also help you with that in the writing and humanities program. That’s Zain Mehdi: [00:05:38] know, I’ve heard Kate is very helpful with that kind of stuff. She is. Dave Etler: [00:05:41] She is amazing. That’s what we’re here for. That’s why we were made step. So if you want to, if you want to go to some rando. I mean to get critique on your writing, excuse me, you know, I can’t stop you, but Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:05:57] actually after , um, when I was writing my personal statement, I like sent it to so many people that by the end of it, I was like, Oh, this person sounds interesting, but it is not me. Yeah. That’s what I sent out when I got admitted. So whatever it Dave Etler: [00:06:10] was all lies at that point, Zain Mehdi: [00:06:13] writing all that stuff for med school was a lot of work. Yeah, for sure. But I think, I, I definitely feel like I had a little bit easier being, having an English degree because I knew I didn’t have to proofread like every 15 minutes. Like every time I re-read it, because I was just been writing for so much, like for four years straight, just kind of writing a bunch of Dave Etler: [00:06:32] stuff. So hopefully, you Zain Mehdi: [00:06:33] know, a little bit about that slight advantage. I think hopefully, otherwise I wasted a lot of money. Well, the real, Dave Etler: [00:06:38] I mean, the real trick is knowing what people want to hear from you, I guess. Yeah. That’s more Zain Mehdi: [00:06:42] important obviously. Dave Etler: [00:06:44] Well , uh, and you guys who took a year year , um, after graduating undergrad why did you do that? Carl Skoog: [00:06:49] I was an idiot , uh, my first two years of college , um, my grades weren’t great. I was having a lot of fun. Uh, it was kind of buckled down. Um, you know, I might’ve gotten into a med school who’s to say, I definitely wouldn’t have been, you know, in an especially safe spot by any stretch of the imagination. Uh, so really I feel like until my junior year of college, I was not really in any place where that was something that could like, you know, immediately be considered. Um, and at that point it’s getting a little late. I was Dave Etler: [00:07:12] also an idiot in college, so I guess Carl Skoog: [00:07:15] I think it’s a valuable experience in its own way, you know? Dave Etler: [00:07:17] Sure. But , uh, there are cheaper ways to socialize. Yeah, there absolutely are. Uh, Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:07:21] he’s hitting you with the truth right there. Dave Etler: [00:07:23] Hey man. That’s my truth. You know what I’m saying? Um, what about you? Uh, uh, Carl, I think you also actually went straight in, you went straight in Oh, Steph. Oh, it Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:07:31] was me. Yeah. Um, I took two years. Well, okay. Cause I made a different type of mistake. I worked full time while I was in college. And so I worked at the airport as like a gate agent. I was that person that was like , um, the airplane is ready for boarding, please come through and everything like that. And I also worked at like the hospital and at the pharmacy. And so I did a lot of stuff just because I liked working more than I did , um, going to school and yeah, that’s a mistake. Yeah. No, and it wasn’t, you know, I made a lot of money. I met a lot of people like at the airport, met like a ton of celebrities. That was fun. Dave Etler: [00:08:05] So I don’t think that’s a mistake at all. I think that’s a. No, I think there’s this. I think there’s a certain mindset that you got to , uh, it’s somehow a problem if you don’t, get into it early , um, because of opportunity costs and all this kind of stuff, you know, like you’re, you’re losing out on income and you know, you’re going to be old when you’re done and all that kind of stuff, which you’re still going to be old, you know, at some point you might as well, and it doesn’t matter that you’re done with med school or not. So I don’t know. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:08:28] I think, yeah, no, that is true. I know, I know some people do think about that. Who knows? Yeah, I think it, it got brought up a lot during my interviews, for sure. I say like I got in just because of my extracurricular activities, not because of like my GPA or my MCAT was fine, but like my GPA was like, I also had a lot of fun, you know, my spare time, I was like more in, so I wanted to have fun during my twenties. And so that’s why. Dave Etler: [00:08:52] Uh, crystal says, OMG, I did the same job at the airport during school and while studying for the MCAT. So there you go right now. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:08:59] Ooh, it is fun guys. It is, you get free flights and everything. Zain Mehdi: [00:09:05] That’s Dave Etler: [00:09:05] where it matters. That’s cute. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:09:08] That’s what got you. Dave Etler: [00:09:09] But you weren’t on you. Weren’t working. You didn’t work on planes. You weren’t like a steward. No, no, Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:09:14] no. I had done it. Those, those flight attendants. Let me tell you about those flight attendants. They’re very mean I spill the Dave Etler: [00:09:23] tea on the flight attendants. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:09:25] Very mean they, they act like they own the place and I’m like, I’m just trying to make an announcement. And then because you know, those planes, it costs them like a lot of money every second that they’re like late. And so I’m just trying to get people into the plane, make the announcement and then by, you know , um, so it’s a lot of work, a lot of responsibility. Dave Etler: [00:09:45] Where are you , uh, worried about starting med school in a pandemic year? Oh, sure. I mean, of course you were worried about starting med school. Cause you’re not crazy. Zain Mehdi: [00:09:55] I would say, I feel like the biggest thing was like not being taught, like see people and like, that was like a huge factor for me. Cause I was like looking at like a few different places and one of them was in the West coast, one of the most East coast and then there’s Iowa right in the middle and both ends, like the country were hit like really bad by like the pandemic early on. So like everything was closed down. Like there’s like nothing going to be in person. And I was like, this is going to suck for, for like our first semester, first year of med school. Like not going to be, to do anything in person, no like anatomy lab in person and that kind of stuff. And I was like, this doesn’t sound good. Um, but then thankfully here we were able to do stuff in person, which was a blessing, especially with like. How, like how few interactions I had throughout the quarantine with people besides my family, it was definitely like , uh, nice to be able to see people in person and be able to do stuff in person. But again, there’s still like its own complications because not everyone can be together at once. It was kind of like just small, like pieces of social interaction that you could have. Um, and even like, not being able to talk to like professors and like people like administration, faculty, like in-person is different than it would have been otherwise. So definitely a challenge to think about when starting off. But I think Carver handled it pretty well with everything. Dave Etler: [00:11:08] Sure. I was going to ask you like, yeah. Zain Mehdi: [00:11:09] I mean, I have, cause I know some people like at other med schools who didn’t have anything in person until like November and that was, I was like, wow, that really sucks. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:11:20] How do you inform friendships Zain Mehdi: [00:11:21] then either you had like friends beforehand or like you’re just desperate for any kind of like zoom, social interaction. How else do you try and like engage with Martin Goree: [00:11:30] people it’s been hard enough even having like some in-person activities to meet people. Because I would say that I probably there’s 150 people in our class. Uh, I’d say I probably know 50 people, like pretty well. And then there’s another 50 people that I’ve just maybe never seen before. And that’s because they have the option, you know, stay home and do zoom if they want or come in for some stuff. But I don’t know. I really wish I’d met more people in my, in our class by now. Oh, for sure. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:11:53] Yeah, just, I think it depends how lenient , um, some of the students are, some are more like, Oh, in-person stuff and others are more like I’m going to stay home because of the pandemic. I think it’s just depends on the attitude of everything. Carl Skoog: [00:12:04] If you were smack downs between people about that than I actually would have predicted, to be honest with you given like how polarizing the topic is. Right. What do you mean in terms of like people feeling like, you know, strongly either that we should be doing more in-person stuff or none at all. Um, and you know, in reality, the college has kind of just kind of played it down the middle for the most part. Anyway , um, Dave Etler: [00:12:23] we were, they were working pretty hard to like to walk a line. Um, and it was, it was for the most part, I think , um, it wasn’t a hundred percent. Uh, virtual. Was it because you did small group stuff? Zain Mehdi: [00:12:35] Oh yeah. We had a fair bit. Yeah. In the beginning that was in person, which was nice. Like there was, we had like, all our small groups were in person. We had anatomy lab in person. And so like, there’s like a fair bit of interaction, again, not like nearly as much as it would be without the pandemic, but like a lot more than the other plate. Like other places that I know of in other med schools that like I have friends that go to is very different in that regard. So yeah. I know Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:12:58] some places didn’t have like an anatomy lab. I mean, they didn’t have like a in-person anatomy Zain Mehdi: [00:13:03] for our third exam. We had to like do it virtually, which was horrible. And I cannot, I cannot imagine doing the entirety of anatomy lab, like virtually it was, it was like not a fun experience. So being able to do an Adam 11 person was really, really, yeah. Dave Etler: [00:13:17] Um, did you prepare in any way before you matriculated. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:13:20] I felt like I needed to prepare, but I’m so happy. I didn’t, I’m so happy. I did it cause there’s no way you can prepare for like med school. I think just taking like the , um, classes and undergrad, like taking that biochem anatomy that really helped me , um, my first semester , uh, taking those classes just so it was much smoother and , um, easier to like go ahead and have some more free time to go ahead and make friends or be a part of activities as well. I don’t know about you guys. Dave Etler: [00:13:45] Well, this might be relevant for somebody like you, who this question might be relevant for somebody like you, who took some time away from your science studies. Um, so what do you think Martin? Carl Skoog: [00:13:55] Yeah, you know, it’s a good question. Um, I think med school teaches you everything you need to know. Right? That’s like the single biggest takeaway. There’s no need to like do mini med school during college, before med school. Um, obviously there are circumstances where it’ll make the transition easier going into classes during med school. Um, but I don’t know. I mean, like, I feel like anatomy was a bit of a foreign concept to me at first. I hadn’t had any exposure to that previously. Um, and I’m going to guess maybe like a third to half of the class had something like that, at least in some respect. Um, so that took a little while to get like, you know, my feet wet in it, but , um, I think as you kind of progress further and further, those differences tend to even out a lot. Dave Etler: [00:14:33] Yeah. I don’t know. That’s that’s our job is right. Carl Skoog: [00:14:36] Um, and I don’t know, I guess kind of what I’ve found personally is a lot of people who scribed in particular, like in an emergency room or something that were exposed to like a lot of different things before med school, the first two months kind of seemed like gods, you know, they had like a really broad knowledge base compared to other people. And then I think that’s kind of. I, I don’t know. I’d be willing to a wager that there’s not much of a difference now at this point. Yeah, no, I totally Martin Goree: [00:14:58] agree. I think most people are on a level playing field by this. Zain Mehdi: [00:15:01] Yeah. Now it’s gotten better, but yeah. Cause I, again, being like one of my majors being like something completely unrelated to medicine as it stands currently, like academically, why wise, but then like my other, like my bio major was focused so much on like molecular pathways. Like that’s like what I studied and that kind of stuff, which is like, which we covered in like the first, like two weeks of, of foundations. Like, okay, well that’s my entire degree there. That’s all I know. And so everything that was pretty foreign. And so Dave Etler: [00:15:30] you’re like, I could have done Martin Goree: [00:15:31] this in two weeks. Zain Mehdi: [00:15:32] Come on. It’s like I spent 40 waste of money and we learned it all in the first like month. Um, But, yeah. And so, cause I know I took like one anatomy class, which is like a comparative anatomy. So it wasn’t even just about like human anatomy. I was like about like turtles and like a bunch of random animals and like just awful, like apparently flies is a big thing. Cause the entirety of embryology was focused on fly embryology. I don’t know. Dave Etler: [00:15:55] It was a of pretty much the same when they’re Zain Mehdi: [00:15:57] embryo, I guess so, but like it was a mandatory class for every bio major. So I must’ve been important just in general, but um, really did not help much with anatomy lab, but like I know a few people who like had there’s one person who’s like did like a masters in anatomy. I’m like, okay, well, you know, a lot more than I do and I will come to you for advice. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:16:14] Is it, those people that like came to like each , um, lab group and like started teaching us Zain Mehdi: [00:16:19] during the no, no, no, no, just another student. Yeah. Just another student just like had, had taken Academy masters and like anatomy or in the human anatomy. I was like, well, she knows everything already. And I’m like, Hey, you don’t know any of these things. Um, and then like, like Martin said that people had experienced, like after taking a year or two off to like work in like the hospital and like CBL, they’re like, Oh yeah, let’s do this, this, this, this I’m like, I don’t know what any of these things are. I felt so lost in the beginning, but I think you’re Dave Etler: [00:16:47] supposed to feel lost in the beginning. Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:16:50] People from different backgrounds. And so that’s a nice thing. Like everyone’s teaching each other, their own thing. Everybody has a weakness and a strength. And so it’s great that we’re all able to come together and learn from Dave Etler: [00:16:59] each other. So even in, I was going to ask that cause even, cause one of the things that, you know, I think we in student affairs we’re concerned about , um, is. You know, that we were sort of worried about a loss of the potential lack of opportunities to find your people and to do social learning , um, uh, and all that kind of stuff. Uh, it sounds like there were opportunities though, so, so that’s good, Martin Goree: [00:17:20] um, Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:17:20] to Dave Etler: [00:17:20] like meet each other to meet each other, but also to learn with each other. Yeah. I know you live in, in Firo, one of the medical facilities and there’s also a KK, so maybe you had a, I don’t know, some sort of advantage in that regard to somebody who lives, you know, maybe in their own apartment or Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:17:38] yeah. You know, that’s a big thing. That’s the whole reason why, especially because of COVID, but , uh, it made me decide to go ahead and live in a fraternity and a medical fraternity. Um, Uh, I say medical fraternity. Cause whenever I tell my friends, Oh, I live in a frat. They’re like, are you the only girl? They’re like, what’s going on? I’m like, know, Oh, it’s co-ed guys. I swear. It’s coed. And one of my friends came along and she saw only guys. And she’s like, didn’t you say this was co-ed? And I said, I said, so where there are girls here, they are coming out. They are just in their rooms or something. Um, but yeah, no, it was great. Yeah. I got to meet a lot of people as a result and then also upper class men as well to just give advice about exams when I would tell them like, Oh, I’m freaking out about this exam. They’d be like, yeah, that exam was super hard. I almost failed. And I was like, that is not the attitude I need right now. I need positivity. But , um, no, it’s great living with a bunch of other people during the pandemic. Um, just so you can make those friendships and it’s important to have a support group while you’re in med school. That is so important to have a support group. I can’t stress that enough. You need somebody, you can like tell your worries too. That is so important. Dave Etler: [00:18:38] Well, speaking of support, I get pitches , uh, almost every day from people who want to come on the podcast, which is nice. Um, but I got one the other day that I just wasn’t sure about. It was the author of a book about how to raise it was how to raise your child to be a physician. And I mean, that’s what it seemed like from the title title. I’m not going to say, say the title because maybe we’ll have this person on the show. I’m not really Zain Mehdi: [00:19:04] explained themselves Dave Etler: [00:19:05] through, except you’re like, I really want them to be like, what the hell. Um, yeah. All right. I’m just going to say it cause they’re not coming on the show. Um, , uh, I was looking at the Amazon description and it’s like, whether your child is a toddler, a teen or in college will help you figure out how to re I’m. Like, why are you doing that? No, you can’t. Who’s doing this. Did you guys, I like as a student affairs professional as a student affairs professional. All right. I’m going to tell you the truth. Martin Goree: [00:19:33] I don’t want to hear from your parents. Dave Etler: [00:19:35] You’re too old for that. I worry, you know, like when student, when parents con I’ve had a couple of parents contact me over the years and every time I’m like, Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:19:44] what are they contacting you about? Dave Etler: [00:19:46] Ah, there was a couple of times I got contacted , uh, during the, the fall semester from parents asking about vaccination. Like when is my chalk and your vaccination? I don’t know why they’re calling me probably because my, like, I don’t have anything to do with that. Um, I mean, my name is like among the first and the contact page on our website, so I’m pretty sure that’s why. Um, but like, I’m like, you guys are adults, you guys were adults before you even came into medical school. I don’t wanna hear you. I just think , uh, maybe parents shouldn’t be involved at this point. I don’t know. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:20:15] Completely agree. Completely agree, but I bring this up because Dave Etler: [00:20:19] yeah, but I bring this up because , um, families are a source of support. Did you guys, did you guys feel supported by your families or did they just not have any idea what is going on? Zain Mehdi: [00:20:29] No, I, I definitely feel like it’s super important to have like, at least, I think for me, at least it’s been very important to have like my family support because , um, like my brother, he was like, he’s like the. He went through the whole like med school, like process first. And so it was like learning, like experience, like, see like, okay, this is what I’m getting into. Like being able to understand that like actually like, see if this is if it actually is for me or Dave Etler: [00:20:51] yeah. Yeah. You had an important , uh, I don’t know if advantage is the right word, but you had a nice window into it. Definitely an advantage. Zain Mehdi: [00:20:56] I didn’t, I would have been a very lost otherwise about like how to do certain things. Cause it’s like both my parents, they do research and like, that’s like, it’s, it’s different for sure from like medicine and like going through med school and becoming a physician. And so , um, like they try to offer advice on that, like, Oh yeah. Research. Like, if you’re interested in this, I can tell you about this. But like, that’s not even the majority of what, like being a physician is about research is like only if you’re interested in kind of thing. Um, so their advice was just kind of like, not as helpful as it could have been. Uh, but still like very important to me, just like kind of the support, like they’re trying to help like that super, I mean, just like effort is like all that. You need and like, just that kind of like, okay, if you need anything, let me know that kind of stuff. It works super well. Where’d your brother go to school? He went to Drexel in Philadelphia for med school. Okay. I mean, we’re from Pennsylvania, just having him as a resource was super helpful and still is like, sometimes, like I remember last semester for one of our CBLs I had a doing learning issue on, on EKG, which is , uh, feet there. Cause like there’s like a bunch of leads. It was like, it was so I was like, it was like Sunday night and I was like, Oh my God, I am, I have no idea what I’m doing. And so like, I called them up and. How he helped me a lot because he’s an internal medicine and going to go into interventional cardiology. So like that’s his feet. So like yeah. If yeah. Having that as a resource. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:22:18] your sister also want to be , uh, go into Zain Mehdi: [00:22:19] medicine. Yeah. So she’s a, she’s already in like a BSDL program where, so she like, doesn’t, she’s like, she just started her freshman year of college, but like, she doesn’t need to like apply to med schools cause she’s already in a program it’s kind of like you apply to like, it’s like a dual degree kind of thing. And so she’s already set to go with that. Dave Etler: [00:22:37] There is a tendency to talk about being a medical student and physician in terms of sacrifices , um, like your, your, the sacrifices that you make to become a physician or a med or even a med student. Um, do you guys feel like you’ve made sacrifices. Carl Skoog: [00:22:52] That’s an interesting question. I don’t know. I guess, like, I don’t think there’s any right way to approach this necessarily. Like, I think it can just be like a job, you can treat it as like a job that you did, like a little bit of extra schooling for , um, obviously like certain time commitments, whatever, you know, can I push the boundaries lab? Dave Etler: [00:23:07] I guess there are things that technical, you do sacrifice, right? Like some people would say , um, Oh, I don’t know you because you know, you could go into another field and make more money for less outlay. Um, so I guess that’s kind of a sacrifice. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:23:21] I dunno. I have like , um, engineering friends, cause I have majority of my friends back home are like engineers. And so here they are, I’m done with school , um, and their jobs making money and they’re like planning, vacations. All I are just like spilling money. Like, like it’s nothing, you know, and I’m over here like, Oh, I would love to join in maybe next time. But I have this test that I have to like study for. So I do feel that there is that sacrifice, but it’s nice knowing that , um, at the end I will get there. At one point, I will be kind of like them and I’ll be in my dream job. And so I think it’s so important to work in something that you’re not like constantly, like, why am I here at one? Is it going to be over this shift? So I think that’s so important about life because life is already, so can be sometimes boring. And so to spice it up, it’s nice to have a job that you love in my opinion. Well, we’ll Dave Etler: [00:24:11] check in toward the end of your third year. Martin Goree: [00:24:16] Like when you’re like, why am I here? Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:24:19] What Martin Goree: [00:24:20] is this over? I don’t want to be a family medicine doctor. Dave Etler: [00:24:22] I hate Martin Goree: [00:24:23] ophthalmology. I don’t Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:24:25] actually like ophthalmology. Dave Etler: [00:24:27] I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but you know , um, Martin Goree: [00:24:29] I think in that same vein of sacrifice, there’s like a nice sense of comradery. That’s comforting knowing that like all the other people in our class are going through the same thing and giving up the same things like , uh, you know, spending extra time with friends and. Doing fun weekend, things like that. There is a nice sense of comfort. Now. Carl Skoog: [00:24:45] I Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:24:45] think that’s what makes med school like bearable, just because of like all of us, like we know what we’re, what the stresses that we have, we have common stresses. And so being able to go on the weekends, knowing that we have a test on Friday or something like that, and not just caring about that and just living in the moment. I don’t know. It’s really nice. It’s important to make those friendships during school because you’re going to need those Martin Goree: [00:25:05] for sure. Dave Etler: [00:25:22] what didn’t you know about med school before you started? Carl Skoog: [00:25:25] It’s a little bit more busy work than I would have expected to be completely honest with you. Like, I pictured myself as just kind of being like, you know, a bit of a shut-in who like, you know, studies like 12 hours a day. And, you know, I think like that level of workload and commitment maybe like kind of picks up a little bit and coming years, but at least during your first year, you know, it’s not like I’m living off of like frozen pizza and , uh, You know, not doing anything bad by grinding for an exam four weeks off in the future. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I don’t know. I mean, I guess it’s like a little more similar to college than I would have predicted actually. Okay. Dave Etler: [00:25:58] I didn’t expect that , uh, anybody agree or disagree. Martin Goree: [00:26:01] I agree on the busy work. I mean, it’s not necessarily a hindrance, but there is a lot of it and you find Dave Etler: [00:26:06] ways to, well, let’s talk about what do you mean by busy work? I’m not Zain Mehdi: [00:26:09] clear Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:26:10] if you think there’s going to be more or Carl Skoog: [00:26:12] less. I thought there would be less. I thought it would be primarily entirely exam driven with some clinical encounters. Um, as opposed to like, write this one page assignment Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:26:22] about. Yeah, we have a lot of assignments due on Monday there. I liked just like , um, the clinical notes and like the reflections and activity that we’re supposed to be learning about , um, on the side. So yeah, there is a lot of that and I don’t, I don’t, I don’t know the reasoning behind that. There is, I forgot the reasoning they gave and a Carl Skoog: [00:26:40] lot of it’s just like mandated, you know, Dave Etler: [00:26:42] but isn’t the reasoning, isn’t the reasoning for stuff like that. you are in the process of becoming something. Okay. And this is, this is kind of a big deal. I mean, you don’t see, maybe you don’t see it while you’re inside, but you are in the process of becoming something and it’s worth understanding what you’re becoming and how that’s changing you. Um, Martin Goree: [00:26:59] And Dave Etler: [00:26:59] the extent to which you are. And in that understanding, I think really helps guide. It could help guide you to , um, you know, to, to be more fully aware of, you know, your own humanity and your own biases , um, and your own understanding of human nature and all that kind of stuff, which is actually kind of important. I mean, yes, you’re, you know, scores are important. Um, grades are important, but , uh, uh, doc, after who isn’t fully air, at least as fully as possible cognizant of , um, human nature and doesn’t, and hasn’t put in any work to understand how they’re going to affect people and the kind of people. I mean, if there’s one thing we’ve learned in 2020 , um, You know, people matter, and it’s not just about science, but, you know? Yeah. So I don’t know exactly what you were assigned. So I am making, I’m making , uh, assumptions. Zain Mehdi: [00:27:53] We had a similar discussion during the humanities elective on Tuesday with Kate and yeah. And Kate, by the Dave Etler: [00:27:59] way is much better at articulating these things than I am. Zain Mehdi: [00:28:02] Cause we were just discussing, seemed like writing and its place in medicine. And like obviously someone who like has like, cares about that and like writes like that’s something that I do. I was like, okay. Yeah, I totally agree. Because it’s like reflective of like you’re reflecting on yourself and your own experiences. And that gives you your own perspectives to think about later on. But it also like reading about other people’s reflections and other people’s experiences, especially if it’s like a patient can help you in the future, understand that kind of population better. And um, but like I, again, I still get it. Like there’s a lot of work that seems like it’s not. Important compared to like all the science stuff that we need to learn. And like, it seems much more like a priority for us, like focus on that because that’s what, like, essentially that’s what matters, like first, like just take care of taking care for the patient’s health. Like that’s like the primary goal, but , um, it’s just like, I feel like it’s still important to like, think about those things. Occasionally. Maybe there’s a little bit too much of it right now, just because there’s just a bunch of different things that we have to do. But occasionally I feel like it’s, it’s a good way to just. Think back and like, think about what’s going on and understanding things better , um, in a way that you might not have thought about before. Cause you just sell like immersed in the material. Um, but yeah, that’s kind of like how our discussion went on Tuesday about the Carl Skoog: [00:29:19] topic too. Yeah, no, I absolutely don’t want anyone to think that I was like arguing that, you know, med school should Dave Etler: [00:29:24] be somewhere it’s a little late for that. Yeah. Martin Goree: [00:29:27] Just cut that from the record. Dave Etler: [00:29:30] Totally. Carl Skoog: [00:29:31] I don’t know. I mean, well, the fact that there are like, you know, a number of like smaller assignments that, you know, exist on kind of like a periodic basis that need to be turned in. That’s something, I guess I wasn’t fully like expecting not that it’s bad by any means and just, you Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:29:43] know, I’d rather, it’d be like a discussion than it being us like writing something, but maybe that’s because I don’t like writing, writing, Dave Etler: [00:29:51] writing is tough. Uh, I, you know, I can, I can see that. Um, you know, I, I mean, personally I’m like, I like this format better. Like just people sitting down and talking. About, yeah. About these things should Zain Mehdi: [00:30:01] be mandated that every med student at one point goes to the shortcut. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:30:05] Yes. People come out of their shell. I told a friend actually to come on when I was like trying to recruit , um, the last minute spa and my friend was like, Oh, I don’t know how I feel about being recorded and everything like that. And I was like, and this person always carries cash on her. And I was like, maybe you’re looking protective custody or something like that. Cause like always has cash on her. She doesn’t like to be recorded. She doesn’t like pictures to be posted. And I’m like, Hmm. Dave Etler: [00:30:31] I think you’re onto something. This person is definitely is definitely in the mob. Martin Goree: [00:30:38] I told Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:30:38] her, I was like, if you’re in the mob, I will accept you. That’s Zain Mehdi: [00:30:42] okay. Yeah, I’m okay with HIPAA you’re covered. I don’t Martin Goree: [00:30:47] think that’s covered, but Zain Mehdi: [00:30:49] definitely not. If you’re a threat to others. Dave Etler: [00:30:52] What was the easiest part of med school so far? Martin Goree: [00:30:56] Huh? Hm, Dave Etler: [00:30:58] wow. I really expected there to be Zain Mehdi: [00:31:00] something for me personally, I really liked just like the simulated, like patient stuff that we do. I feel it gets very Dave Etler: [00:31:09] well Zain Mehdi: [00:31:09] reviewed. Yeah. It’s just, I feel like I really didn’t. George is like talking to like, if I sure it’s like a fake patient by talking to a patient about like, what’s going on and wait, wait, wait, we don’t call them fake patients, simulated patients. Sorry. But , um, I just, I, I thought that was a lot of fun. Like, especially this week we had like our own, like one-on-one where we kind of did like a full thing with everything, with an SP where we did like the full HPI, like past medical history, family history, everything as well as doing a physical exam based on like a potential differential we had on mind. And I thought that was super a lot of fun and like, not easy for sure. But like, it’s definitely just, that was a nice way to just like. Feel more like a physician, you know, before we’re actually physicians. And so I really liked that part , um, and thought that was a good time. And I think we’ve been prepared, like we’ve been getting prepared slowly to get to that level and it’s been getting better and better, which with each encounter that way I Martin Goree: [00:31:59] would agree. I think the curriculum does a nice job building upon itself. Like looking back at the first couple of weeks and that school will be like, this is how you talk to someone. This is how you can have a conversation. And then, you know, they slowly out on different components of the fiscal exam, like parts of the interview. And then by the end of the first semester, I felt like super confident in my abilities to meet with patients. And I wouldn’t say it was easy, but like, it was definitely not as difficult as I expected it to be ahead of time. Yeah. So yeah, Dave Etler: [00:32:24] that looks good. And they do a great Carl Skoog: [00:32:25] job of making , um, I think like assignments of that nature, like really approachable. Um, you know, I don’t think anyone that I’ve talked to anyways really felt like there was just kind of some like overbearing evaluator who was just like breathing down their necks, ready to like knock them off for, you know, whatever they could do wrong. It’s it’s very much like an encouraging building process. Zain Mehdi: [00:32:42] Yeah. I think that’s a super important part of it. Like being able to like make mistakes and no one care that you made a mistake, it’s just kind of like, okay, you made this mistake, this is a better way to do it. Potentially try to figure it out this way. And I think that’s super helpful. Cause then, cause we all eventually will take care of patients in a slightly different way and being able to like figure that out ourselves I think is super helpful. Dave Etler: [00:33:01] Um, okay. Well what have you struggled with Zain Mehdi: [00:33:03] time management? Yeah, Carl Skoog: [00:33:06] the stuff’s hard boring answers, but it’s kind of true, Martin Goree: [00:33:10] especially. Oh no, go ahead. I was just every week is so different. Yeah, it’s really, I mean you can’t learning time management is kind of an ongoing process. Like we never have the same schedule every week. So it’s, you really have to adapt. Zain Mehdi: [00:33:21] I was going to say one thing. I was like, okay. Cause like one week we have absolutely nothing going on, like testing wise and the next week we have a test and like, there’s a bunch of stuff that like, it’s so different each week that like, it like messes up, like whatever schedule I have for one week, because I have to figure out how to do it differently the next week. Martin Goree: [00:33:37] I don’t know about you guys also, but Stephanie, but I don’t usually plan too far ahead because of that. Like, you can’t really plan look more than four or five days ahead, which is fine. But Zain Mehdi: [00:33:47] no, I see that very often people are like, Oh yeah, well we have this tomorrow or in two days I’m like, Oh really? I haven’t looked past today. And like, I feel like that’s a very, and yeah, I don’t know. It’s just this just how it is. Cause there’s just so much to focus on at one time that like, you can only take it like day by day in some cases. Is Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:34:05] this why you can’t like give me a set date on when we’re going rock climbing. Zain Mehdi: [00:34:11] I don’t know how anything works. And, and I’m just like trying to figure out things as much as I can. And it’s, it’s just not, I’m not good at it. I made it this far, so true. Fair enough. But if you want to go on Monday down to go, you’re going on Monday. I have no idea. Maybe, maybe not we’ll week. So I don’t know. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:34:33] Oh, I don’t know. Test weeks are Swedes are interesting. It’s more about winging it and everything like that. I don’t know. I was going to go with Zane rock climbing this week, and then I remembered I had my COVID my second dose COVID vaccine scheduled later in the day. That’s what I mean, like you take it day by day. I was like, Oh, you know what? Maybe it’s not a good idea to go right after I get the second dose. And so he Dave Etler: [00:34:55] almost had him though. You almost got him to go rock climbing on Monday. Zain Mehdi: [00:34:59] I went twice this week. Just like, it just didn’t work out with like Steph schedule, other people that had went with. Cause it was like a fairly large group of kids here. Who like, Dave Etler: [00:35:09] are you talking about like actual climbing of actual rocks or at the, Zain Mehdi: [00:35:13] yeah, at the rec center? Um, cause I don’t know how to do like lead climbing yet. That’s not, that’s like the next step. Um, but right now it was just kind of the top rope and bouldering on like the wall that they have at HTR, T H C Martin Goree: [00:35:24] H Dave Etler: [00:35:25] CR CRP X Carl Skoog: [00:35:27] four letters Zain Mehdi: [00:35:28] and roll. I dunno because there’s another, there’s like a tennis rec center that’s near where I live and that’s the one that I think about, but no, it’s CWIC um, Dave Etler: [00:35:34] And campus recreation and wellness center. I already Zain Mehdi: [00:35:37] forgot it. Right. Um, yeah, but I, yeah, twice this week, because there’s like a large group of kids who like rock climbing and so it’s been a good time, good way to meet, like, hang out with people that you might otherwise not like see often. Good. It’s nice to know that. Yeah. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:35:51] People are really are Dorsey here. Yeah. That’s what I learned when I moved to Iowa really outdoors. Dave Etler: [00:35:56] Um, who or what has helped you this year in any Martin Goree: [00:35:59] fashion? Dr. Swales? Zain Mehdi: [00:36:02] Yeah, like Dr. Swales person, just Martin Goree: [00:36:06] like he brings is Zain Mehdi: [00:36:06] really positive. It’s just like, it’s like, he validates like what we’re feeling, but also is like, try to get us more excited to do what we’re doing and it really, it helps for sure. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:36:17] Yes. He has an Instagram, which is like the cutest with his little histology stuff going on. If you guys should follow him. Carl Skoog: [00:36:25] Yeah. Martin Goree: [00:36:28] This Dave Etler: [00:36:28] is second account. Oh, I didn’t, I didn’t know about that. So the Zain Mehdi: [00:36:31] second Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:36:32] credit as followers, Martin Goree: [00:36:33] it’s like 30,000 followers. That’s incredible. We Dave Etler: [00:36:35] are you serious? Oh yeah. It’s Zain Mehdi: [00:36:37] kind of a common thought you follow it? Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:36:40] No, no I do, but I don’t look at the followers. I just looked at his like images and everything was, Martin Goree: [00:36:45] you know Dave Etler: [00:36:45] what that’s, that’s refreshing Steph doesn’t care about your followers. I don’t care about Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:36:50] that. Thank you. I also have an Instagram and there’s zero posts. So maybe that’s why I’m actually like the social media chair for like a number of Dave Etler: [00:37:05] she’s an influencer. Zain Mehdi: [00:37:07] Really? Yeah. Do you, so you met it at the bowl where Instagram. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:37:11] I control the bulwark, Instagram. I control the women, surgeons of Iowa, whatever Instagram. I also control, like sometimes the SNMA one. I just jump into a ton, Zain Mehdi: [00:37:23] you know? Dave Etler: [00:37:24] Okay. Well now I know now I know who isn’t liking my posts on our Instagram. Oh, the short coat. I just, you know, Martin Goree: [00:37:36] I don’t know that Carl Skoog: [00:37:41] popularity here, David. Oh, you’re right. I spoke was the only listener we’d still be doing this. Zain Mehdi: [00:37:47] I’m there. Dave Etler: [00:37:48] Uh, Carl Skoog: [00:37:48] shout out to that guy, by the way. I only remember the one name. Yeah. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:37:51] I just gave you like, Dave Etler: [00:37:54] like likes or for chumps. I need a share or a comment or a save, please. That’s how the algorithm works. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:38:02] And I felt like when people are like, it’s so cute emoji, I see that all the Dave Etler: [00:38:08] time. We’re like the lowest, the lowest interaction, I think saves, saves are the highest, the most valuable interaction. Cause it says, Oh, at least leave a comment Martin Goree: [00:38:20] or something, leave a Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:38:21] comment. Yeah. I think they should get rid of likes and just leave comments. It would open up discussions for people. The Dave Etler: [00:38:27] likes of the only interactions I get. So apparently Zain Mehdi: [00:38:31] I can’t see likes anymore Dave Etler: [00:38:32] in my Instagram. Yeah. you have to click through, or maybe you have to be a creator or a business account to see them. I think that’s what it is. They did deemphasize them. Cause I can’t see it anymore. And I think the reason they, they said the reason they deemphasized them was because , um, they weren’t as important. Um, no, that’s fair, but the whole goal of instant we can go on for the whole goal of Instagram. As I understand it is to keep people on Instagram. Okay. That’s Alice. So all of those other things are like. Strong signals that you’re on Instagram. You’re staying on Instagram . Let’s I w I’ve enjoyed getting to know you in this fashion. Let’s uh, go through a few. Would you rather, , um, maybe we can know you a little bit more. Um, would you rather murder a squirrel or murder a clown? That’s important question murder, a squirrel or murder a clown. Martin Goree: [00:39:30] Is it an evil clown? Clown? I feel like most Dave Etler: [00:39:34] people either like clowns or don’t like clowns and they don’t really, I mean, if it’s, if it’s, I mean, obviously if it’s the clown, that’s like the worst clown, right. But clowns are pretty bad for some people. I probably Zain Mehdi: [00:39:49] killed a squirrel. I don’t know. I feel like I don’t, I don’t have a problem with clowns. And if he makes me a balloon animal all the better, Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:39:57] yeah. He brings happiness. I’m Carl Skoog: [00:39:58] more afraid of clowns than the squirrel. So I’m going to avoid antagonizing a clown and I will also go the squirrel route for the larger lown listenership out there. This is Martin Gorrie. I’m on your side. Okay. Let’s just establish that. Dave Etler: [00:40:16] People doing their gap years as clowns, someone has to, it’s gotta be one listener, dude. I would love, love, love to hear about that Carl Skoog: [00:40:23] listener. MarkerWhat percentage of the population do you think is in like the clown profession, less Zain Mehdi: [00:40:28] than London per second, one dying, Carl Skoog: [00:40:31] like kind of common. Do you think it’s more than 1%? Go with like 15, 15 I bet if you put a poll in our class group me right now asking how many people were clowns, you’d get like 24 Zain Mehdi: [00:40:48] versus like an actual clown, like in like white base. That’s Carl Skoog: [00:40:51] what I’m saying. We’re out, we’re on the same page here. Kind Martin Goree: [00:40:54] of interesting. We’re all pro clown. Carl Skoog: [00:40:57] I’m not good with estimations. Dave Etler: [00:40:58] did you express a , uh, an opinion on this stuff? I Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:41:01] wouldn’t, I would kill the squirrel because I don’t know. I have a lot of trees next to my building. And these squirrels sometimes will follow me to the door. I’m kind of Zain Mehdi: [00:41:10] afraid of them. Martin Goree: [00:41:12] Dave said, murder, not kill your murder. Do you, Dave Etler: [00:41:16] do you try, do you accidentally leave a trail of nuts as you walk around, you might, you might want to check. You might want to check your pockets for holes. Maybe the nuts are falling out of your pockets and the squirrels are, are just, you know, they’re just doing their squirrel thing. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:41:33] Well, that my building also leaves the door open. And so they can like easily go into the kitchen downstairs and grab some Dave Etler: [00:41:40] food. They’re really skeeved out by squirrels. So Zain Mehdi: [00:41:42] I bet I was squares a little bit more bold. And as well as that I’ve seen, like, they don’t like, if there’s a human around them, they’re not running away instantly, which is different from where I’m from, where if the squirrel comes in like 10 feet radius, they run away. Yeah. Dave Etler: [00:41:54] Um, would you rather. Lick a scalpel recently used for cadaver dissection or drop your phone in a portable toilet near the stadium after halftime and retrieve it Zain Mehdi: [00:42:07] without a doubt. I’ll look that scalpel, I’m not dropping my phone in a port-a-potty next to it. Music festival, Carl Skoog: [00:42:14] God gave us antibiotics for a reason. You know, Zain Mehdi: [00:42:16] I’ll take the scalpel, the scalpel, like all of that preservative. I’m sure it’s probably going to be a little bit less problematic than all the whatever is in that port-a-potty Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:42:25] Well, you can like lick the scalpel. You don’t have to like spit it out immediately and you can just spit it out. Yeah, Dave Etler: [00:42:31] you could, you could technically reach into a port-a-potty with a gloved hand, grab your phone and then somehow Zain Mehdi: [00:42:36] phone is not getting it every single, like no crevice that phone’s gone and you have to fish it out. Yeah. So that’s Dave Etler: [00:42:46] the part, that’s the worst part. So you just abandoned the phone just because it’s not worth worthless. I spent a thousand dollars on that phone, but I am licking Zain Mehdi: [00:42:53] that scalpel without a doubt. I have a waterproof Martin Goree: [00:42:55] case. I Dave Etler: [00:42:56] think I’d still like , uh, Steph , uh, you seem to have a visceral reaction to this question. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:43:02] I’m thinking of the scalpel and the porta-potty and everything like that. Martin Goree: [00:43:05] Uh, Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:43:05] I’m scared because like, what if somebody does pick up your cell phone from the port-a-potty and like steal all your information? I have like my cards on my style and I do Zain Mehdi: [00:43:14] like the Apple. First of all, who’s who’s fishing that out for you sounds Dave Etler: [00:43:19] strangely like you’re off the grid friend right now, two in the Martin Goree: [00:43:23] same room Zain Mehdi: [00:43:24] before they’re so concerned that even a phone that’s fallen into a port-a-potty is a greater concern of their like personal identity that someone might stretch. Dave Etler: [00:43:35] Well, fears are fears are often , um, irrational. So that’s fine. Would you rather get plastic surgery that made you look as beautiful as the most beautiful person in the world or become a doctor in the specialty of your dreams? I mean, everybody in this room is already as beautiful as the most beautiful person in the world. So I guess this was, and step two, Zain Mehdi: [00:43:54] I was going to say the, exactly, like we’re already at contract to becoming whatever physician we want to be, hopefully, but Dave Etler: [00:44:01] your dream, your journey, like all Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:44:04] saying, you want to go into neurosurgery. So Zain Mehdi: [00:44:08] it is harder, but I feel like it’s like, it’s plausible. It’s not, it’s not plausible that plastic surgery will end well all the time. So if I make it work exactly right, then Dave Etler: [00:44:19] it would work. I mean that’s, I mean, it’s, it’s not, there’s no chance that this plastic surgery wouldn’t work. That’s why I’m leaning more. Zain Mehdi: [00:44:26] Yeah. Yeah. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:44:26] But don’t, you have to go ahead and like, let’s say, if you get like , uh, like breast surgery that once every 10 years you have to go ahead and replace it. So would you want to go through that hassle every time Martin Goree: [00:44:40] I’m talking about the Dave Etler: [00:44:40] female, I guess we know something about staff. They’re Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:44:47] my friends, we talked about this just because there’s a friend of ours that wants to be a plastic surgeon. So we like talking about like, Zain Mehdi: [00:44:53] yeah, I saw a few of the like discussions for breast implant stuff, because last semester I was in my ECE, which is our early clinical exposure exposures. If for those listening , um, was in the plastic clinic. And so I, we like, it’s gnarly for sure. Down the line. They’re not fooling around. Yeah. But the whole thing is it’s going to be perfect. That’s that’s, that’s the thing. So. In this scenario. Dave Etler: [00:45:16] So project you’re supposed Carl Skoog: [00:45:20] to, I don’t know, I’ve hesitated long enough that I guess I have to suck it up and answer the plastic surgery. One, to be completely honest, I would want the plastic surgery. If I was approaching this from Lincoln altruistic angle, I should have known that within like a millisecond and I Dave Etler: [00:45:35] definitely didn’t. Okay. All right. So you’re to you’re getting plastic surgery. It looks super hot. Oh yeah. But you’ll still be a doctor you just went. Yeah. Right? Yeah. All right, dude, did you a way in there? Yeah. I’ll take the Martin Goree: [00:45:47] plastic surgery. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:45:50] I’m so surprised about Zain Mehdi: [00:45:51] this. Are you going to pick the dream dream specialty? Is that your answer? I Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:45:57] don’t know. I think like if you, if you look super. Did you say, like you would look perfect after this plastic surgery, Dave Etler: [00:46:04] beautiful person in the world. It was beautiful person whose opinion in the world’s opinion, the entire entire world got together, Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:46:13] thinks the same and Zain Mehdi: [00:46:14] I’m sure that’ll help get your dream like specialty. Exactly. That’s what I was thinking. And the hottest person in the room. Oh yeah. Okay. All right. So it, the full purpose. Proficiency is out the window. Nope. If you’re, if you’re hot enough and she can get away with anything, Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:46:29] I think there’s like a research study about that. Like people Zain Mehdi: [00:46:32] call it it’s like halo effect or something. It’s Carl Skoog: [00:46:35] actually my summer research project coming up. Yeah. I am taking a sample size of 10,000 supermodels and then 10,000 people who look like me. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:46:45] I would believe that. So is that true? I’m looking at Martin Goree: [00:46:49] every word of it. Zain Mehdi: [00:46:51] Whenever they saw that to review for SRF. They’re like, this is the one Martin Goree: [00:46:57] to see the comments. Dave Etler: [00:46:58] All right. Would you rather wake up in nursing school, dentist school, physical therapy school or pharmacy school got a four way thing here. Nursing dentist, PT or farm. Zain Mehdi: [00:47:12] I’d probably go PT. I feel like that’s okay. That’s the thing I think of most interesting of the bunch to me. Dave Etler: [00:47:20] I don’t know. There are no wrong answers, huh? Okay. Carl Skoog: [00:47:22] I was like, I don’t think I mentioned this at the beginning when I was supposed to, I did a chem major and then was actually looking at jobs for Pfizer, out of college for antibiotics synthesis. So you missed your chance? I think. Exactly. Yep. Uh, you would not want a vaccine made by me Dave Etler: [00:47:37] right now, Carl Skoog: [00:47:39] but I’ll go with the cop out and go with pharmacy for that Dave Etler: [00:47:42] reason. All right. Fair enough. I think I’d go with dentistry dentistry. It’s a Carl Skoog: [00:47:47] procedure holistic field and Dave Etler: [00:47:49] I Martin Goree: [00:47:49] like that, so. Okay. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:47:51] Uh, physical therapy or dentist, I don’t know, maybe physical therapy. I would love to have, I wouldn’t be one of those buff people and get an Instagram and show people how to do squats because I can’t do squats Carl Skoog: [00:48:00] correctly Dave Etler: [00:48:02] to Steph and Instagram yet she has zero Martin Goree: [00:48:08] posts. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:48:08] I have zero posts. I’m not big about social media. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:48:13] So that’s why. except if you have been on Snapchat, your stories are amazing. Stories are wild, so they should not be seen by a Zain Mehdi: [00:48:23] professional. Like I’m always , uh, complaining about stuff. I do art or do art. Yeah. That’s the two Dave Etler: [00:48:30] options I am on Snapchat. So I will immediately be adding you Zain Mehdi: [00:48:35] stories. Carl Skoog: [00:48:36] Impeccable. Do you think it’s feasible to be an Instagram influencer? That’s never posted Martin Goree: [00:48:42] to Carl Skoog: [00:48:43] be up at night. That’s Martin Goree: [00:48:44] actually my SRF project possible. Dave Etler: [00:48:50] Alright. What’d you write there have aphasia. Uh, and if you don’t know what that is inability to understand or express using language have and knows me and knows me and nausea, loss of ability to smell or have prosopagnosia the inability to recognize familiar faces. Carl Skoog: [00:49:07] Can you smell the person and recognize them? Oh Dave Etler: [00:49:10] God, Whoa. Ooh. I don’t know. You don’t like it. If that was, I don’t want to know as the, as the smelly person in this scenario, I don’t want to know if that’s how you recognize me. just so you Martin Goree: [00:49:23] know. Yeah. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:49:24] That’s yeah. I agree with that Dave Etler: [00:49:26] even though that’s entirely plausible. Zain Mehdi: [00:49:30] I feel like I, I don’t know, cause I really liked my sense of smell. I dunno. I like like good smelling things. It’s like something like, I, I dunno, I Dave Etler: [00:49:39] haven’t, well, people have really, I mean, especially in 2020, they’ve really discovered how important the sense of smell is. Zain Mehdi: [00:49:45] But also like a Fe, like, I don’t know, the other two options also suck incredibly too. Um, but I feel like you can, easiest to live without a sense of smell. I feel like compared to the other two options, like unable to recognize people’s faces, I feel like would be problematic and unable to communicate very problematic. So Dave Etler: [00:50:05] probably professionally and interpersonally survive without taste, even though you might be kind of miserable. Yeah. Zain Mehdi: [00:50:12] It gets the least. Probably like the least bad. Dave Etler: [00:50:16] Fair enough. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:50:17] If we say which one we’re okay with losing or which one we would want, Dave Etler: [00:50:20] which one would you rather aren’t they both wait Zain Mehdi: [00:50:28] it’s which loss of function? Loss of, yeah. Which loss of function. And would you want? Dave Etler: [00:50:33] No. Would you rather have, I mean, you don’t want any of these things, but you have to pick. Zain Mehdi: [00:50:40] Okay. So what’s your answer stuff is like, Well, Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:50:45] I’m just thinking about like, I can’t smell. So like, I don’t care about losing that. Um, Zain Mehdi: [00:50:50] you Dave Etler: [00:50:50] can’t hang on. You can’t smell, you can’t smell. You have enough nose, Mia and nausea. I have an Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:50:56] Osmium undiagnosed. Zain Mehdi: [00:50:59] How Dave Etler: [00:50:59] did you say you don’t know how this came about? You’re just a, not a smeller. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:51:03] I just can’t smell, you know, candles. They look pretty. I like the light, but I just can’t smell anything. I’m just like, Dave Etler: [00:51:09] okay. What about food? What about tasting food? No, Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:51:13] that’s why I love to like taste it because I can smell it. Dave Etler: [00:51:17] Taste and smell. Go together. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:51:18] Yeah. Yeah. They kind of do go together, but yeah, I can’t smell Zain Mehdi: [00:51:22] them. You can’t smell like anything or is it just like not, well, it’s Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:51:26] not, well, Dave Etler: [00:51:29] it’s like, you’ve got a permanent cold basically. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:51:31] Yeah. Look, I have a permanent coal. That’s what it is. That’s what my life is like. Hey, that sucks. Yeah. Yeah. Being able to recognize faces. I think that’d be cool. You know, you get to meet a new person every time. You’re like, Hey, what’s up? How are you doing? I already do that. Not Dave Etler: [00:51:50] at all awkward spoken, like, we’ve all another thing we’ve sort of gotten used to in 2020 is we’ve all kind of got face blindness because we’re all wearing masks. I’ve actually gotten pretty good at recognizing people with it. Well, I’m so Zain Mehdi: [00:52:03] bad at it to this day. It’s like somebody has spent like literally like hours with, and like I see them walking around like Donald, that person. Martin Goree: [00:52:11] I have a hard hat. Dave Etler: [00:52:15] Yeah. Those are the worst I have always, I think I’ve always because I don’t have great vision. I think I’ve always sort of relied upon my ability to recognize shapes and walks , um, in identifying people at a distance anyway. All right. For the same annual salary, would you rather. Be a TV doctor or be a real doctor. Zain Mehdi: [00:52:33] Oh, real bad. I, I just, I don’t like TV doctor. I feel like it’s not. Dave Etler: [00:52:39] I know, but the point is like, you are the TV, do you don’t have to like, Oh, okay. You are the TV doctor. personally, I would rather be a TV doctor, first of all, let’s go on to school. Uh, and all you got to remember is your lines. Zain Mehdi: [00:52:52] You’re good. I feel like I’d be a fraud. I don’t know. A lot of the times the ones that I’ve seen, I’m not an expert expert on this field of TV doctors, but from what I’ve seen, some things aren’t not right. A lot of the time. And so because of that, I’m like, I feel like this is just like a friend. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:53:13] I feel like all these TV doctors are going to call out saying, now they’re going to add saying like, I am valid. Um, I have a purpose. Carl Skoog: [00:53:20] Yeah, doctor, Dave Etler: [00:53:21] we just have an ongoing beef. We, for sure. We for sure have a lot of listeners and followers who are TV doctors. So Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:53:29] tag Dr. Phil, I want to see this. It’s like Carl Skoog: [00:53:31] the other 15% of the population you got clowns and you’ve gotten to be doctors. And then the other 70%, it’s just like everything else. I guess Dave Etler: [00:53:40] you should be. I feel like you should be a census census. Absolutely. Really got your finger on the pulse of America. So Carl Skoog: [00:53:47] at 96% of the populations under the age of five, that’s a Dave Etler: [00:53:50] fun fact. Hey bull, where community, just like one of my photos on Instagram, Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:53:54] I wonder who that was. Carl Skoog: [00:53:58] All right. Assuming you would still Dave Etler: [00:54:01] emit. The same volume of gas, would you rather fart all your farts on for the year on December 31st? What Zain Mehdi: [00:54:09] a win and the year Dave Etler: [00:54:10] or fart once per day, the moment you see somebody attractive. Zain Mehdi: [00:54:15] Well, definitely the first time. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:54:19] Well, why would you choose a second? One Martin Goree: [00:54:21] sounds Zain Mehdi: [00:54:22] painful. It does a little pain. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:54:25] I feel like when you though, when you fight with somebody, you do become closer with them. Zain Mehdi: [00:54:30] They just think you’re weird. Hell, because you’re fucking, you don’t know them. Dave Etler: [00:54:35] Yeah. There’s a, I think what Steph is talking about is when you like move in with somebody or you become their boyfriend or girlfriend, then you know, it’s okay to fight with people and they’ve been, then you become closer. I don’t think that fighting with somebody that you’ve only recently met automatically. Zain Mehdi: [00:54:54] if someone comes up to you, don’t fight. They’re like, Oh wow. You don’t think I’m attractive. You’re not partying. You’ll be offended by. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:55:04] So at what point is it okay to fart with somebody until you move in with them? Like, I mean, as relationship wise, like at what point are you okay with it? And don’t tell me, no, you don’t fart because I hate it when people tell me that I hate that Dave Etler: [00:55:16] third time. I would say third time. Uh, you’ve spent the night. Martin Goree: [00:55:18] Okay. It’s been a long time since I’ve had to worry about this. Thank God. Zain Mehdi: [00:55:23] I feel like it depends on each, like, if like the vibe that you like you have with another person, just kind of depends on that. Right. Just kind of chill together. Dave Etler: [00:55:32] Yeah. A controversial thought. Maybe you should just, you know, let your farts out. Why is it that on the show? I always talk about farts. I gotta, Zain Mehdi: [00:55:42] I have Dave Etler: [00:55:43] to examine my life. Um, uh, maybe if you’re just letting it all out on a day-to-day basis whenever, and you find somebody who likes you that you’re like, you’re like, Oh, well this is definitely the person. This is definitely the one. Cause they don’t mind that I am. A gaseous individual. Martin Goree: [00:56:01] I’m still just really intrigued by like all at once for the entire year. Zain Mehdi: [00:56:04] Yeah. Yeah. Dave Etler: [00:56:05] How long is that going on all day? Yeah. All day. Somebody look up Stephanie, you might be in the best position to look this up. How much people fart in a year? Somebody is somebody is definitely looked into this in a volume. How much, what volume of gas does the average human produce? Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:56:26] Okay. Well they say the average person for it’s 14 times every day, and there are 365 days in a year. Right. Or sort Carl Skoog: [00:56:37] of like 5,000. Martin Goree: [00:56:39] And what’s the average volume per farm. Dave Etler: [00:56:41] What is the Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:56:49] then normal flat volume is. 476 to 1,491 milliliters per 24 hours. Wow. Carl Skoog: [00:57:00] That’s oddly specific. Zain Mehdi: [00:57:02] You talked about like the rest of the staff Martin Goree: [00:57:05] was this FEV one where you breathe into the contract part easy one volume. Carl Skoog: [00:57:20] If you’ve got like IBD, it goes up exponentially. Dave Etler: [00:57:23] Uh, well that’s, I mean, you know, you don’t, we don’t have to do the calculation. I think we can pretty much go with the idea that it’s, that’s, that’s a large volume. Um, but yeah, you’d have to let it out on one day. So I think you’d be pretty much partying continuous. Like it would just be one long, like you would lose weight. Like he did Carl Skoog: [00:57:44] lose a lot, would fly that one day or Zain Mehdi: [00:57:47] just so full of gas at your. And when you release it, like you’re you way more because the gas was keeping you up. Oh, Carl Skoog: [00:57:54] medical consequences to being filled with that much. Dave Etler: [00:57:56] Oh, for sure. Nope, not a one. Okay. It’s all good. I’ll go with that one. Yeah. Well , uh, that’s our show. Uh, Martin Steph, Carl Zane. Thanks for being here. Thanks for being here. Thanks for being on the show with me today. Thank you, Dave. Zain Mehdi: [00:58:13] Thank you for that podcast. Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:58:15] When do I log off? Do I Martin Goree: [00:58:16] just Dave Etler: [00:58:23] things to do. When do I get out of here Stephanie Rodriguez: [00:58:25] management right there? Dave Etler: [00:58:28] Google would I be, if I didn’t thank you shortcuts for making us a part of your week. If you’re new here and you like what you heard today, subscribe to our show. Wherever fine podcasts are available. Our editors are AIG Chowdhury and Eric Bozart and Alex Belzer is our marketing coordinator that shows me possible by a generous donation by Carver college attendance and student government and ongoing support from the writing and humanities program chairs provided by your communities. Our music is by Dr. Box and captain sphere. I’m Dave, Etler saying don’t let the bastards get you down. Talk to you in one week.
Requiem for a Meme: Yahoo! Answers will close
Apr 16, 2021
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
TL;DR
Should Victoria also get a law degree to facilitate a career in health policy?
Shea sends feedback on our recent discussion of options for unmatched MD Seniors
We practice answering patient questions with a straight face by visiting Yahoo! Answers for what might be the last time!
The Big News in medical education is that a valuable resource for practicing patient interactions and understanding their concerns is shutting down. That’s right, Yahoo! has decided to shut down it’s beloved, if deeply sad, site that allows people like Dave to post their urgent health-related questions. Will they flock to Quora? Who knows, but for now M4s Sophia Williams-Perez and Marisa Evers, M3 Annie Rempel, and M2 Eric Boeshart celebrate its impact on medical school podcasts with some new questions and revisit some old favs.
Listener Victoria writes in wondering whether an MD/JD degree is right for a health-policy focused career. We can help, and we start by noting that no-one has signed up for this dual degree option at our school in several years.
And listener Shea fact checks (with love!) our recent discussion of options for unmatched senior MDs.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
Dave Etler: [00:00:00]Welcome back to the short coat podcast, production of the university of Iowa Carver college of medicine. I’m Dave Etler. With me today in the studio to talk about something very, very, very, very, very, very serious is Annie REM Pell. Hi informer receivers is back. What up, what up and would you look at that?
It’s Eric Bozart. Hey guys. And finally it’s Sophia Williams
Perez or Sophie Williams Perez our time making up her mind. We’ll go with
Sophie today. Okay, Sophie, I’m glad to have you all here today. On this solemn
occasion you’ve probably heard. At this point, listeners, it’s all over the
news, but yeah, who answers you’re shutting down in may.
So thank you for being here. You guys, to help me process what
is probably the most horrible news of 2021 so far? I’m totally sure. I mean,
you know, We had the insurrection
Annie Rempel: right
off the bat.
Dave Etler: I
think this is worse
Sophia Williams-Perez: personally,
arguably similar scales.
Dave Etler: I’m
especially glad to see you Sophia. Sophie, this is your third appearance on the
show. Is that right? I’m so I’m just very happy to have you back. You guys too,
I don’t want to exclude you guys, but
Sophia Williams-Perez: particularly
Sophie. Yeah.
Dave Etler: As
president of the SeaComm student body this past year, I will forgive you.
You’ve been it’s all a facade. I don’t mean to put, I told
him behind emails. Yeah, I totally made it put you on the spot. What’s it like
to lead a bunch of medical studies? I,
Sophia Williams-Perez: the
phrase that comes to mind is herding cats. I’m not surprised. I’m just kidding,
but it’s been fun. Normally at like any given year, I would have anticipated
certain things to happen, but obviously with what has ensued with the pandemic
last year.
Yeah. You were all
Dave Etler: like
last year, you’re all like, yeah. I’m student body, president
Annie Rempel: charity
auction. Yeah. Holiday fees. None of it. Instead you’ll be doing these things.
Lots of emails, apologizing, buddy. Her emails are very graceful. Well crafted.
Sophia Williams-Perez: I
appreciate it. I read them only 87 times, and then I still noticed a typo.
Okay. That is
Dave Etler: humbling.
Worst mass emailing is the worst. Every once in a while, I have to send out a
mass email to the entire university announcing something that we’re doing,
like, you know, our conference. Yay. And invariably, I screw it up. I’m
sweating for you. I will screw it. I will screw up regular emails as well.
So
Eric Boeshart: that
doesn’t. It happened to just like that happens to me on a daily basis. Like, it
doesn’t matter who that’s gone to. I’m like, God, I have to ask my fiance.
Like, can you read over this for me?
Annie Rempel: Yeah.
Dave Etler: Kate
and I are always showing each other our emails to verify that they’re not
ridiculous. I mean, it doesn’t matter.
We all screw them up. Yeah. So, well, good job. The past
year keeping up, keeping up your smiling mask while you dealt with it. With all
that. We’ve got some listener feedback from Shea wrote into the
shortcuts@gmail.com about our last episode in which we discussed the possible
alternate paths for students who are unfortunate, if not to match.
And she says, or he is Shay. I’m not sure. I think it’s
either. Or they say, thanks for bringing to attention. The alternative options
that med students can take. If they don’t match. I completely agree that people
should have other avenues and that knowing there are backup options could be a
relief for med students going through the awful process of not matching.
I heard Holly’s dissent about the lack of training and her
concern for family members who could potentially be treated by these quote
associate MDs. Does she know ARN PS practice independently? Is she aware of
what training they have pointed question? Of course, psych being my specialty,
how they should know that it’s really, it’s actually really competitive and
there aren’t a lot of unfilled spots.
In fact, there are only three unfilled positions in the
whole country, and those were at a new program. that was actually not NRMP
eligible for the match so effectively there were zero unfilled spots. Just my
fact checking for the day. Thanks for bringing this topic to light. You are so
welcome, Shea.
Thank you. Thank you for sending your feedback. I appreciate
that. Any quick comments about
Marisa Evers: that?
I don’t think that not matching should be an option. Yeah. That’s my
Annie Rempel: 2
cents.
Eric Boeshart: It
doesn’t kind of
Dave Etler: crazy.
Yeah. I mean, , like I said, in the last show, the whole discussion was about
me, you know, sort of feeling terrible.
You know, for people who had to go through, you know, like
match and then soap and then have it not work out, and then you have to do it
again next year. And you know, all the problems associate go back to, episode three 61 last week show, and you can
listen to my soap box, my ideas, my ideas, I’m putting quotes around the word
ideas.
But yeah So, thanks for sending your thanks for sending your
feedback. I really do appreciate it. Here’s a listener question from Victoria.
Victoria says, first, I want to thank you for your continued efforts to provide
inspiration information and guidance to pre-med and current medical students.
Thank you for highlighting our intro . I have been a listener for the last few
years and look forward to a new episode every week. Thank you. Secondly, I am
wondering if any, CCOM students are in the MD/JD combined degree program. If
so, what made you decide to pursue this program?
What has been your experience so far? Would you recommend it
to a person who wants to pursue medicine, but has a passion for health
policymaking too? What are your plans? Post-graduation how will you use these
degrees? So many questions that we can’t answer because it’s been years since
we’ve had an MD/JD student Victoria, I checked and I don’t even know.
We don’t even remember how long it’s been. We have this
option, but nobody’s taken us up on it. But co-host AGA Chowdhury looked into
it for us and he had some thoughts. I didn’t know. What, what do you [00:06:00]
guys think is, is MD/JD a health policy? Making, I mean,
Marisa Evers: the
only we were talking about this before, the only person we know who is MD/JD is
Dr.
Thompson, and she did JD and then came into med school and
it seemed like, , A roundabout way to get to where she wanted to be, but you
can do health policy without having to do the JD. It’s just, I guess, a
personal preference of how long do you want your schooling to
Sophia Williams-Perez: take?
Yeah. Right. And like what your health policy Avenue wants to be
Dave Etler: health
policy.
It’s a big, yeah,
Sophia Williams-Perez: it
depends on like what your ultimate goal is with health policy. Like if you
wanted to be more and maybe legislation, you know, like formally in
legislation, whether that’s state, federal national, whatever it is. The JD
might help because then you have some of that background information, you’ve
taken the classes, you know, the nuances about like how things occur on those
given levels.
But if it’s more like a local or do you want it to be in
like organized medicine or things like that, I would think an MPH could get you
to where you want to go, because there’s the AMA and there’s other places like
that that facilitate plenty of physicians that just have an MD or. Have masters
of some sorts rather than JDS that I know of.
Yeah.
Eric Boeshart: It
seems kind of crazy too. Cause like a, if you choose to go down that route, you
don’t really, you would have to eventually probably pick one or the other. It
would seem like, I feel like it’d be hard to be a practicing lawyer and.
Practicing physician. Like it just seems, I don’t know, kind . Of racks my
brain a little bit.
Dave Etler: AJ
Chowdhury looked into it for us. And he says, yeah, it’s a very small program
that requires you to fill out a very specific niche. There’s not much overlap
between the two and assuming the MD is first in your priorities, you don’t need
a JD for many of the legal and policy tasks an MD can do.
Like being an expert witness or consulting in biotech for
pharma. Hospital administrator may be, but you’d probably be better served with
an MBA. He of course had problems with the financial issues of being a JD and
an MD. He says it’s the worst financial choice because you’re adding on three
more years of debt and opportunity costs.
As you lose three years of top end physician income. Law’s
going to make you less money. So if that’s important to you and it’s a good
idea to do things like get involved in advocacy or policy in his estimation before choosing to apply to
a dual degree. Just because it’s so financially, , and time intensive with not a lot of
payoff, unless you have really good reasons and really understand , why you’re
doing this.
So
Eric Boeshart: if
can I ask a question real quick? Yeah. Did, so when ADA was looking at that,
did, did he say that. People who would. Pursue an M D J D that , they would
potentially more likely be going. Like they could do like expert, witness type
stuff. I’m thinking, I’m just thinking, because , I’m a Minnesota native.
And so I’m obviously following the Derek coven trial right
now. And they’re talking about all that testimony, like from, you know, it
sounds like pulmonary care experts and things like that. I’m just trying to
figure out, like I was thinking in the car ride over today. Like , . How does a
person get to that point as a physician?
Like, does someone have to approach me to ask me to, Hey,
you, will you testify in court? Yeah. Obviously you have to be,
Dave Etler: it’s a
good question. He didn’t, he didn’t he didn’t tell me that. I didn’t think of
asking that. But I would imagine that. Yeah. Do you guys know anything? Do you,
have you guys heard anything about this?
I would just imagine that, you know, your, your
publications , would play into that. ,
my guess is it’s something that you, I don’t know if you just decide to become an expert witness or it just sort of
happens to you. Like, so I have no idea.
I
had
Marisa Evers: a
professor in college
who was a psychologist and they were a forensic
psychologist.
So like, they, they were like specific for like an expert
witness and stuff, but it was just something, I was like, they threw
publications and then kind of got involved in it, just like it kept going. And
they just like, yeah. Get hired as an expert witness in a lot
Sophia Williams-Perez: of
things. Yeah. I
Annie Rempel: think
same goes for forensic pathologist and they just have it.
I mean, just, they have an MD and are very routinely called
to be expert witnesses for cases they’ve done autopsies for
Dave Etler: so
clearly more likely to be an expert witness if you’re a forensic, whatever.
Yeah. Right. That makes sense. Forensic
Annie Rempel: lawyer
I mean, you
Dave Etler: know,
you laugh with however you want
at whatever you want. That’s what we’re all about. And the
show you do you it sounds like we’re leaning towards masters of public health
for health policy though, as a easier slash more what’s the word I’m looking
for? Easier, more accessible, more accessible, more universally efficient and
efficient.
Yeah. But JD, you know, if you want to do MTJ, JD, your,
your options are somewhat more focused. Specialized. Yeah. So but good luck.
I’d like to hear more about that. I confess I don’t know much about it, so I
hope we helped. It’d be interesting to hear every show. Okay. Well,
Eric Boeshart: are
we going to there? Yeah. Oh, I was just gonna say, I’d be interested to hear
plans, like what that person plans, like, what, how they view that J D being
used.
Dave Etler: Yeah.
Well, yeah, I’d like to, I’d like to know more about what can we do. It’s not
like I couldn’t have invited her on the show and ever asked a question.
In honor, of our old friend, Yahoo answers the saddest place
on the internet. Let’s give you some exposure to the ideas and concerns of your
potential future patients. Today, I have selected some favorites that we’ve had
on the show in the past, and I’ve picked a couple of new ones.
So let’s see what you guys can make of these questions.
Maybe give some advice, maybe we’ll learn something. I think it will be you
people who teach something, but, and not these people, but yeah, we’ll, we’ll,
we’ll figure it out. So let’s start with our first one. We have this old
favorite from somebody with concerns about [00:12:00] hygiene.
. So my armpits
Annie Rempel: smell
at first, it was my left and it smelled like melted butter and was always
itchy.
Dave Etler: Now
it’s just my right armpit that smells
Annie Rempel: like
melted butter and is always itchy. What’s going on?
Dave Etler: Are
you putting melted butter in
Annie Rempel: that’s
the first question I think
Marisa Evers: about
also if your boo smells like melted butter,
Dave Etler: Yeah,
my armpits smell like cinnamon rolls. When the
Annie Rempel: movie
theater popcorn, there’s
Dave Etler: an
undercurrent for me. There’s an undercurrent of sort of a urinary smell to a
movie theater popcorn. I don’t know. I don’t know if that’s,
Annie Rempel: where
are you going? It’s not enough to make me not
Dave Etler: eat.
Annie Rempel: So
they take the popcorn,
Sophia Williams-Perez: you
know, like behind the wall and then they come back out and hand it to you.
Dave Etler: come
on. Haven’t you ever been like, you know, you just pick it and you’re like,
Well, it’s
Annie Rempel: not
bad.
Sophia Williams-Perez: I’m
trying to think of, you know, the 8.8 million last times I peed. I can’t, I
can’t draw.
Dave Etler: Did
you know that? No matter how large a mammal you are, it always takes one minute
to peak. So you can be an elephant and you will still pee one minute. I find
that hard to believe. It’s true science. I believe it was say no time
Annie Rempel: myself.
I
Dave Etler: have.
It’s pretty cool. About a minute. It’s pretty close.
Eric Boeshart: You
just have a chalkboard in your bathroom. Just kind of like
Sophia Williams-Perez: last
minute, minute and a second. Yeah, I
Dave Etler: go in,
there’s like a chess clock in the back of the toilet. I just hit it. I count
Eric. I can count a secret. Okay. Yeah. I
Annie Rempel: wonder
if elephants get BPH benign prostatic hyperplasia.
Dave Etler: Is
that like a big prostate? Yeah. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. Getting good at this.
Annie Rempel: I
feel like that might spread out the minute. What
Dave Etler: are
the symptoms of curiosity? 50 year olds, 50 year old,
Annie Rempel: man
here. You’re asking for a friend asking for a friend. What
Dave Etler: are
the symptoms of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That big, big process,
Marisa Evers: hesitancy
frequency hesitancY.
It can mean that you’re going more often because you’re
struggling to empty your bladder when you do
Dave Etler: go.
I’m a firm believer in always being prepared for anything.
So I was happy to discuss this one a while. If you wouldn’t a partner are stuck
in
Annie Rempel: the
desert with no water, any fluids or nutrition. And your partner is deathly
constipated, like about to die. You are a male, would it be the correct course
of action to pee in their butthole?
If you had no other
Dave Etler: devices
to collect the fluid and scored it in this
Annie Rempel: manner,
why are you going to knock them out? Right. They’re dying
Marisa Evers: apparently
in the desert and your, and your solution is to give them an animal with your
yard.
Annie Rempel: I’d
go find a cactus. Uh You know, aloe Vera type
Yeah, but they said
Marisa Evers: no
options, no options available. The only liquid you have is their urine, but
their solution is to pee in someone else’s butt
Dave Etler: hole
that Annie, I mean, that’s, it’s a good solution. I think the problem is that
you don’t, you don’t have a, device that
you can use to put it where it needs to go.
Other than right. Other than drinking, the cactus keeps and
then peeing in at somebody. But
Annie Rempel: we
are in a bad situation. I think, I think you’re
Sophia Williams-Perez: really
tied our hands with this question.
Dave Etler: I
wonder if that was part of it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Eric Boeshart: So,
I mean, the big question is, is there any nutrition, I guess first, first
things first, is there a nutritional value in your
Dave Etler: state?
What does that have to do with it?
You’re putting it in their butthole.
Annie Rempel: The
issue is the constipation plus lack of. Water and any other
Sophia Williams-Perez: material,
Marisa Evers: probably
constipated, because you’re not, you’ve already taken all of the liquid you
possibly can right
Sophia Williams-Perez: out
of you. Right. And like how long have they been in the desert? So like how long
have they, are they truly constipated or have they just not been eating and
they have nothing to pass, but you still can pass things.
Marisa Evers: Some
Annie Rempel: like
Sophia Williams-Perez: what’s
our mucus contact.
Annie Rempel: Yeah,
Marisa Evers: I
never stopped discuss.
Annie Rempel: Okay,
wait, can we just confirm these are these I’ve been asked to answer. Yes.
Dave Etler: People
have these questions. People have these questions and they go to Yahoo answers.
They, well, they now they can’t go to Yahoo answers. Wiki
Marisa Evers: answers
will be the new Yahoo
Dave Etler: answer
Cora or something.
Yeah. I did I confess, I did look at Quora just to meet,
just to reassure myself. I feel a little better, but the, the, the questions
are a little bit more, I don’t know. Anyway. Point is I’m I’m. Yes. I’m
personally having a difficult time, figuring out a reason to pee in somebody
bought a whole medically.
I don’t want to rule out other reasons.
Annie Rempel: I,
yeah. I don’t think it would accomplish what you had and then you lose that
fluid and then, you know,
Sophia Williams-Perez: goodbye.
Yeah. What if you had to drain the urine later, if you get dehydrated,
Dave Etler: if
they’re constipated. Okay. So deathly constipated. That’s also kales.
Marisa Evers: I
forgot what the depth, so there’s obstipation happening.
Yes. They’re not passing gas as well. They have a bowel
obstruction,
Annie Rempel: so
Marisa Evers: is
going to fines from the
Sophia Williams-Perez: cactus
and just do an X lab. Look at that.
Annie Rempel: What’s
the next lab
[00:18:00] Sophia Williams-Perez:
and exploratory laparotomy kind of from that
Annie Rempel: sounds,
Dave Etler: that
sounds
Marisa Evers: okay.
Very sterile in the desk. I’m not going to,
Dave Etler: I’m
not going to advocate for this, but the next person I read about, who’s done an
X lap with a cactus spine in the desert.
I’m going to be damn impressed. That’s right up there with
the guy who did surgery on himself in the Arctic. You know what I’m saying?
Yeah. Or in the Antarctic anyway. Okay. It’s a great question. Thank you. Yeah.
Who answers? Let’s look at the next one. You know not a small number of our
Yahoo answers discussions over the years.
We’re about pranks by alleged friends. So here’s a new
example. My friend played a prank on me and put Windex and my
Marisa Evers: Gatorade
in my stomach kind of hurts. Should I make myself out? Make a couple of times.
Dave Etler: Or
what, why do, why do our friends do this to us? You know, my friend is always,
my friends are always putting Windex in my, Hmm.
Is this a message? This is a message. Your friend is trying
to tell
Annie Rempel: you.
They’re
Marisa Evers: just
trying to give you ethylene glycol poisoning. Or
Sophia Williams-Perez: maybe
they saw a big fat Greek wedding. I was thinking that, what have you ever seen
that? It’s like, they put Windex on everything if you’re, if you’re sick, but
Windex on it, if it’s something sturdy, put Windex on it, right?
Yeah.
Marisa Evers: Our
toxicologists would say, please don’t do that.
Dave Etler: Yeah.
Let’s, let’s, let’s be clear for our listeners to not, we don’t advocate. I
mean, we don’t have a kid, a lot of things that we’re talking about. We don’t
certainly don’t advocate. Cactus spine X labs, and we don’t advocate pudding,
Windex. We don’t advocate friends, especially putting Windex in there.
I mean, if you want to do it yourself I still don’t
recommend it. But friends, shouldn’t
Windex each other. That’d be the new tide pod. This
Annie Rempel: is
ground zero.
Dave Etler: Terrible
idea. Yeah, you should make yourself vomit probably or, Oh, how about call
poison control center? Yeah, definitely call poison control.
That’s step one. I think probably step two is yeah, probably
make yourself vomit. That’s fine. Right. Well,
Annie Rempel: where
they drink? Like, did they take a sip? And they’re like, Oh, this tastes gross.
Like how much did they consume? I’d want to know that.
Marisa Evers: I
mean, you probably. Give them some IV fluids anyways, like you don’t want to
Dave Etler: vomit.
Okay. So you don’t want to my understanding of, , vomiting
after consuming something poison you. Don’t definitely don’t want to vomit. If
it’s corrosive, then you’ve got another issue. Yeah. Your esophagus already had
enough problems on the way down. You don’t need to make it worse on the way up.
Yeah. So I’ve always, I feel like that’s, when they say
don’t induce vomiting, you think? Yeah.
Sophia Williams-Perez: What’s
the active ingredient in Windex. So definitely the self language. I know
Marisa Evers: that
I was on a toxicology rotation. I talked about the toxic alcohols.
Dave Etler: So
definitely glycol. That’s not the stuff in Antifa.
Annie Rempel: It
is.
Marisa Evers: Yeah,
it is. Yeah. So like Windex has. Different things within it. And like ethylene
glycol is one of them. I’m pretty sure. Yeah. And then, so like that can cause
you to have some like metabolic abnormalities so you can get an acidosis that can
happen. And that’s like, there’s an acronym called mud piles and it talks about
like an eye on gap, metabolic acidosis.
Dave Etler: Okay.
I thought we were, that we were getting back to the cactus anus.
Windex. And you can have some mud piles,
Marisa Evers: actually
just a spa that we’re sending them to.
Annie Rempel: Very
bizarre.
Dave Etler: Okay.
Well, see, we did learn something. I did learn something today. Appreciate
that. All right. Here’s another one. We can discuss there’s another oldie about
the spread of. Insect borne diseases, a fly hit the inside of my lip earlier.
Can I get a disease or something? Put was feet away and may
have gone on it. I wiped my lip right after with my shirt, please help I’m
freaking out. I remember liking this one mostly because of the voice and it
says poop was feet away. I mean, this can happen to any of us really. It’s
really not.
A weird question in the sense that, , it’s not like, ,
butter pits or . Friends feeding us, Windex. This is a real thing that can happen.
And then you might be concerned about, what would you say to a patient who
expressed this concern? And it was like, doc poop was feet away from this fly.
In my mouth. I’m
Annie Rempel: so
sorry. This happened
first and foremost.
Dave Etler: Show
your compassion. I like it.
Annie Rempel: Can
you tell me more?
Dave Etler: I
can’t speed away. Come on. I’ve told you, I’ve told you everything you need to
know poop was feet away. It was right there.
Annie Rempel: I
mean, the amount of like fecal matter, that’s being transferred on a little
feet of a fly is probably pretty darn small, but you know, monitor your
symptoms.
I’d say stay hydrated, you know, like
Dave Etler: under
your symptoms. That’s what I always say to my watching race. That’s what I
always used to say to my children when they’re like, I have a stomach ache and
I’m like, well, let’s, we’ll, we’ll Keep an eye on it. See what happens. I
could be a doctor. I really could.
All right. Let’s see. This one, you guys are ambitious. So
this previously aired question might hit a nerve for you in a couple of
different ways.
Annie Rempel: Years
old, never been to college. Will I get a job, putting people to sleep for
surgery and get paid for it from next month? I never done it before. I will
ring hospitals in my city tomorrow.
They will let me put people to sleep in theater,
calling hospitals, she’s doing the right thing. She’s asking
the question. She’s calling
Dave Etler: hospitals
tomorrow.
Annie Rempel: To
ask if it was all fields that call,
Dave Etler: I love
this [00:24:00] idea because it like, okay, so
Annie Rempel: this
question, clearly this person,
Dave Etler: this
question occurred to this person moments ago. Right. And they were like, I
could put people to sleep. Yeah. Anybody can do that.
Annie Rempel: I’m
going to call hospitals tomorrow. I
Sophia Williams-Perez: want
to know how she’s going to do it was just like slug them.
She knows that it’s usually done via medication and she just
takes
Marisa Evers: her
rag.
Annie Rempel: How
hard could it be? You’re just good people
Dave Etler: sleep
Annie Rempel: anyway.
Yeah.
sounds like a, would be serial killer
Eric Boeshart: or
those people that gets away like in person, I think a doctor.
Annie Rempel: I
just need practice.
Dave Etler: That’s
an interesting theory. Like this person is a serial killer who is looking for
an outlet for his or her destructive urges doctor. Oh my God. I mean, yeah,
it’s, that’s actually really good.
I mean, you know, like you could be a psychopath. I dunno if
that’s the proper term for a serial killer, but let’s just say it as you can be
a psychopath. And channel , your bad desires into something good. And that’s
what this person is doing.
Eric Boeshart: It’s
like, they’re asking permission. Like, can I try? Yeah.
Marisa Evers: The
worst they can say is no,
Annie Rempel: don’t
move on to the next hospital.
Dave Etler: Do you
know hospitals in my city, one of them is going to . Surely, you know, you miss
a hundred percent of the shots you don’t take. It’s like dating.
Annie Rempel: Oh
Dave Etler: man.
Oh my gosh. Actually, I’m going to put
this on my list of questions that patients should ask before surgery. When was
the last time you hired somebody off the street to put me to sleep because they
called you one day and you were like, Oh shit. Yeah.
We’re our anesthesiologist is late today and we have
somebody that needs to be put to sleep right now. Actually, here’s another
question just occurred to me. Are they applying for euthanasia? Do they think
like, like, like pets, you.
Annie Rempel: You
still
Marisa Evers: have
to go to like some sort of schooling for that.
Annie Rempel: Just
putting them
Dave Etler: to
Annie Rempel: sleep,
Dave Etler: going
off to a nice
Annie Rempel: rest.
The long nap,
Dave Etler: the
long, long dirt nap,
Marisa Evers: the
farm
Sophia Williams-Perez: always
made that joke about
Annie Rempel: Jasmine.
Did you lose a pet now? She’s living. She’s good. Why is your mom on the
Dave Etler: carpet?
She’s the oldest kitty cat. I assumed it was cat 18. I assumed she was a cat.
She has a cat. I don’t know what I’m asking. I don’t know what I’m going to do
when my cat gets old.
I’ve only been she’s she’s only probably we think a couple
of years old. So it’s a little, it’s a little early, but we do love her. It was
really early.
Annie Rempel: We’re
not even thinking about it. I know.
Dave Etler: I
know.
Marisa Evers: Well,
most of our cats, whenever they were getting to that time would just run away
and they’re like, Oh, it’s time.
Goodbye. Is
Dave Etler: that
what you call that backdoor? You had indoor outdoor cat, cheaper
Marisa Evers: MCAT
so that they like were allowed to like come and go as they pleased. But like,
they always stayed on our property, but then our cat turned 22 and she just
Dave Etler: disappeared.
Okay. Yeah. Cats do that when they’re sick, they sometimes go and hide.
Yeah. Yeah, my cat’s an indoor cat strictly because I won’t
let my pretty precious. Kitty out of my sight. I don’t know
Sophia Williams-Perez: ours
was just too fat. We couldn’t let her outside. Otherwise she’d get eaten
Annie Rempel: on
anywhere for her life.
Dave Etler: Our
cat was a stray was Australia that was picked up and, and, and and neutered
and, you know, th the shelter and all that kind of stuff.
So she lived a life on the, on the main streets. And she
probably had kittens at some point According to the vet. So, you know, she led
a hard life, I think. Yeah. I also think she might’ve been abused by
somebody she acts weirdly in certain
situations, like when I hold a broom. So I’m a little concerned about that, but
she’s got a happy life now.
But yeah, I don’t want her getting out of the house. I feel
like she’ll just run across Rochester and you know, the end, the end. She’s my
baby.
Marisa Evers: Timothy
just likes to hang out with the squirrels. His name is Timothy Timothy,
Dave Etler: Timothy
Marisa Evers: He
just likes to like, look at the squirrels. So we left him outside. He’s also
mentally challenged. So we kind of just let him do whatever he wants.
Dave Etler: I do
wonder a little bit about Fishwick that the formal
Eric Boeshart: diagnosis
mentally challenged. He got attacked
Marisa Evers: when
he was a kitten and our, so our cat had kittens and Timothy was one of them.
And our dog was very selfish of attention and attack the
kittens and ticket. These organs were outside, like, yeah, I found Timothy when
he was like that and we rushed him to a hospital and then he had some brain
injuries because of it. So he is mentally challenged,
Dave Etler: crapped
my
Marisa Evers: pants.
It was very sad, but he’s doing very well.
He’s very lucky, but he does strange things. Because of it
where like, when he’s happy, he chews on his tongue and like, he can’t drink
water. Normally he steps in his bowl and throws it in his face. It’s really
cute. We let him do whatever he wants, because I think he’s our dad.
Dave Etler: She’s
my baby. I don’t know what to
Annie Rempel: do
now. How do we recover? I don’t know what this was
Marisa Evers: like
15 years
Annie Rempel: ago.
He’s fine.
Dave Etler: Okay.
Annie Rempel: Once
was a tangent of all tangents.
Marisa Evers: Remember
we started with a fly peak.
Annie Rempel: We
got to,
Dave Etler: I’m
going to move on to the next question. No no.
All right. So there is a lot of insecurity on.
Yeah, who answers and I [00:30:00] hope that doesn’t
transfer over to whatever options we have in the future. But this is, you know,
this is exemplified by this person’s recent concerns that I actually think you
can all relate to. And I don’t mean that you’re ugly. Oh, I gave it away. Come
on. Is it possible bad sleep?
Make me ugly. I’m 16. Unfortunately for a long while I was
getting maybe five hours of sleep on school nights. It did not affect my
height. I’m pretty sure. And lately I’ve been able to get more sleep mainly
through naps, but I feel like, look
Annie Rempel: ugly.
Could that be due to the sleep? Oh my God.
Dave Etler: Lack
of sleep.
Make it ugly. It can make me act
ugly.
Yes.
Marisa Evers: So
there has been
research that has shown that whatever side you sleep on, it
will become more puffy in your face. So that’s actually kind of why they
suggest that you like sleep on your back because it can affect where you get
wrinkles on your face and like the.
Special cemetery. And that will actually affect how
Dave Etler: are
you talking about when you’re a kid? No, it
Marisa Evers: can
happen now. No, I know I am a science
speaker and it really upsets me cause I’m like, Oh, I’m always going to be
asymmetric.
Annie Rempel: I
don’t need to be ugly
Dave Etler: face,
sleep, sleep person. I don’t know how to put that really, but
Eric Boeshart: we’re
all just lopsided.
Can you tell which side
Dave Etler: can
you guys tell which side I sleep on?
Annie Rempel: You
are correct.
That was my preferred sleep side.
Marisa Evers: This
can also tell which side you sleep on because it stimulates growth of your
hair. Cause my hairstylist did this last time. I got my hair cut. There’s
longer or longer on the side because like the wrestling, when you move your
head, it stimulates hair growth. I
Dave Etler: am now
going to sleep on my forehead.
I have a problem. I have a pattern about this issue. Will
that work for 50 year olds? God, I hope so.
Marisa Evers: I
secret doctors. Don’t
Dave Etler: do
this one strange trick.
Annie Rempel: To
Dave Etler: alleviate
your baldness problems. Okay. I like it. See it every time we do this
Annie Rempel: spit,
Dave Etler: I
learn things. This is why we do this.
Annie Rempel: I’m
an educator.
Dave Etler: I’m an
educator by bringing this to you. I am an educator. All right. Here’s an old
favorite. I think. Probably every one of us in this room can understand
sympathize with let’s take some tingling
Annie Rempel: and
pants. What is the most likely reason for this? That’s it? That’s my
Marisa Evers: question.
I heard tingling with a G or tinkling tingling, piddling the nurse.
Dave Etler: I
think this is something we can all relate to and Well, I’m a little surprised
that this person doesn’t know what’s going on. I mean, you’ve all had it to
Eric. You’ve had it.
Annie Rempel: Yeah.
Lateral cutaneous
Sophia Williams-Perez: for
moral nerve. Your pants are
Marisa Evers: just
a little too tight. Yeah. Or your impression of a nerve. Or you
Annie Rempel: were
pregnant, your pants are tingling like this. How long? Like, is it
Sophia Williams-Perez: shorts
or actual like long pants? Because if it’s shorts, then you would assume it’s
just like, you know, only me up, but if it’s full pants, then it could be
anywhere from ankle to
Eric Boeshart: hips.
I’m just thinking of like the simplest stroke. Localization
stuff. Just where do you have sensation?
Dave Etler: Whoa,
Whoa, Whoa. You cannot just go past that.
Marisa Evers: An
anal wink,
Annie Rempel: Wink.
Yeah.
Dave Etler: I
mean, I, I, I think I understand what you’re on here. I didn’t realize this
Marisa Evers: one.
Yeah. So that’s like, if you have an injury, like a trauma response, that’s
something that you’re going to look for. Or you can also kind of injury. Like
if you had a spinal injury, they want to make sure that everything you’re
having sensation and still having reflexes.
That’s also why sometimes they’ll, they’ll say if you have a
finger and they have a butt hole, you need to check to make sure that the
sphincter’s intact.
Dave Etler: But
you can, why did they put it that way? Why do they put it that way, Marissa, by
that way, if you have a finger and they have a butthole, like
Marisa Evers: everyone
should be having that checked, that’s not a real thing that actually happens,
but it is pretty frequent where it’s like, that is part of like a primary and
secondary survey.
When you have a trauma response, you have to check if they
have like their sphincter intact. We in the
Annie Rempel: desert.
Dave Etler: wow.
See again, learning things.
Annie Rempel: Okay.
Eric Boeshart: Thinking
you still
Dave Etler: processing
dead. Always. , I will process for hours after today. All right. Next. We’ve
got another hygiene related question. It’s a big topic on Yahoo answers.
Annie Rempel: What’s
a good comeback
Dave Etler: for
when people say taking above is dirty. I shower, but I also like taking baths
because I sit down it’s relaxing and I put lavender, Epsom salt and Rose oil to
relax my muscles and make it smell good.
In passing conversations, I’ve leaned on that I took above
and someone will interrupt me and say, taking above is just fading in your own
debt. I got embarrassed because I never thought about it like that, but
technically that’s true. And everyone agreed. So I was really embarrassed and
didn’t know how to respond.
Is it really bad to take above? I mean, what can I say?
Because I take a lot of buffers and I don’t want people to think
Annie Rempel: on
gross or something. [00:36:00] No, that’s awesome. I know
Dave Etler: this
person’s like, I just want to have a nice Epsom salt Rose oil bath. It sounds
lovely to make myself happy. And do it every day.
Annie Rempel: Yeah.
Can she draw me up a bath?
Marisa Evers: She
just showers after she can just tell or shower or
also what you do in the bathroom is your own business.
Dave Etler: You
gotta remember that
Annie Rempel: for
Sophia Williams-Perez: your
friends.
Dave Etler: Yeah,
no, I I’ve not taken a bath since I was a child. I think probably that’s just
not a thing, Eric. You take baths. Do you, do you like, do you like S you know,
maybe set some candles up and like Rose oil and Epsom salts and put on a little
meat
Eric Boeshart: glass
of wine. This is a cup of precession, my fiance.
And I had like,
Dave Etler: I,
well, okay. I’ll bring it out. Bring it out there.
Eric Boeshart: Well,
it it’s, she’s, she’s a bath person and I’m a shower person. And you know,
again, just like she, like early on, she was
Annie Rempel: like
Dave Etler: calling
your fiance a dirty woman.
Eric Boeshart: It’s
one of those things of like, she, she tried to convert me, I guess, that not
convert me, but you know, like, she’s like, Hey. Have you ever tried this? I’m
like, honestly, I’m like, no, I prefer cha you know, get in, get out, get
clean. But then again, I’m, I’m also the type of person that I’d take a long
shower too.
So like, I kind of get the benefit if you’re just trying to
like, turn your brain off, just, just shut down. Yeah.
Dave Etler: But
like, I like me a long shower when I can get it. Yeah. It’s a little hard
household of four people with, you know, two kids who also like to take long
showers and, you know, 40 gallon, hot water tank, but that’s just, that’s just
the logistics.
All right. your
fiance convinced you to take a bath? Did you try?
Eric Boeshart: Yeah,
I have, yes, it has its benefits, but I’m also. Six four and don’t fit in most
bathrooms.
Annie Rempel: So
it’s challenging.
Eric Boeshart: There’s
logistics there that
Dave Etler: it’s
long time since I’ve seen you. I forgot that you were, that you were tall.
Tall
Annie Rempel: boy.
Okay. Wait, my question is though, so Erica, your house It’s your bath, tub and
shower one like do, do you, do you step into that? I feel do you clean it? Do
you clean it
Eric Boeshart: again,
Annie Rempel: Val?
Every
Dave Etler: shower
you do? No, no,
Annie Rempel: no.
Dave Etler: You’re
not saying clean it after every shower. No,
Annie Rempel: no,
I’m just curious. Like, I, I feel like if you had like two bathrooms or like a
bath tub specifically, and then a shower that you walk into specifically, it
feels like those are like separate, but I know a lot of bathtubs have a shower
over it and you can kind of choose.
And I feel like that’s like, I don’t care about my own body
dirt. I feel. I would be more weirded out by like, if this is
Sophia Williams-Perez: like,
yeah, like right now, my drain has a little ring up ratio, Mar sessions.
Marisa Evers: Why
Annie Rempel: haven’t
you cleaned that shit? Just like the last couple of days yet?
Dave Etler: We do
not judge.
Marisa Evers: You’ve
noticed it.
Annie Rempel: Sending
emails. Okay. So many emails. Here’s the
Marisa Evers: thing.
I had friends in college who were males who never cleaned their bathroom and
they had mushrooms
neurotic
Annie Rempel: about
it. I’m having a, an anal wink moment here.
Marisa Evers: They
just have, they, I guess they didn’t know how the curtain works. I dunno, but
the water would just splash out of their shower. Yeah. Onto
Annie Rempel: the
Dave Etler: ground,
outside their house.
Marisa Evers: Onto
their bathroom floor and mold grew and then mushrooms sprouted from that mold.
And they just
Dave Etler: never
dealt with it. Some commitment to not washing your cleaning at some point.
Annie Rempel: But
these were your friends.
Eric Boeshart: I’m
not wanting to talk because. So it’s like a very familiar situation. So
Marisa Evers: I’m
amazed and appalled at the same time of the standards that especially college
age boys will live in 18 to 21 year old boys deal with,
Dave Etler: you
know, some, some of us didn’t learn a lot about cleaning when we were
children’s and we had, we had parents specifically moms back then we did a lot
of it.
Sophia Williams-Perez: We
don’t have moms.
Annie Rempel: Well,
I want it to be,
Dave Etler: I want
it to be a, you know a feminist when I was discussing this. Hm.
Marisa Evers: My
mom is one of those neurotic people that will clean the bathrooms and shower
every day. This
Dave Etler: is
reminding me that I should clean the bath. Yeah, me too.
Annie Rempel: Sophie
Dave Etler: feeling
very strongly. Then when I go home tonight, though, there’ll be a little
bathroom cleaning.
Annie Rempel: I
don’t want it, you know?
Sophia Williams-Perez: Recommend
a knife or scissors in the mushrooms
Annie Rempel: are
these edible
Marisa Evers: that
you can, you can eat them or that you can have a psychedelic trip or you can
die
Dave Etler: flame
thrower. I would, I would rush
Marisa Evers: in
the house.
Annie Rempel: I
live in an apartment
Dave Etler: complex. them
Marisa Evers: all
share the same plumbing [00:42:00] anyways. And the mushrooms are probably in
the next 30
Sophia Williams-Perez: minutes.
Dave Etler: The
thing about this is if Sophie’s apartment catches fire for no reason, for no
particular reason, you’ve got one week. All right. Let’s mushrooms. All right.
You know, every one of us, we, you know, we’ve already talked a little bit
about poop. Every one of us poops, it’s another big deal on Yahoo answers.
Let’s see what we can do for this person. What should I do help? I took a
sodium phosphate enema because I was constipated and it said it should work
within minutes up to an hour, but an hour went by and nothing. So I did another
one.
Then half hour went by and they’ve been constantly shutting
since then. I read the bottle, which I should have done first. I know, but I
Annie Rempel: didn’t.
And it says can cause serious dehydration or kidney problems if taken more
Dave Etler: than
one proper dosage, is that what is going
Annie Rempel: on
or will I be okay please? Only serious answers.
I’m
Dave Etler: not
sure we can comply with that last bit, but let’s see what we can do to help
this person. One or two doses is this problem. Just
Annie Rempel: increase
Marisa Evers: your
oral intake. And then if drink, drink, drink, drink a lot. And if you still are
hydrated, go to the hospital.
Dave Etler: Yeah.
Sodium phos. Can you, so what’s, he’s talking about an anima.
In this case, but I’ve, I’ve had the pre-surgery like drink.
Is it the same shit? Coli
Marisa Evers: is
right. Don’t you get that pre surgery drain?
Sophia Williams-Perez: I
don’t know what the active ingredients are actually cold is like not bowel
prep. It’s bowel regimen. It’d be like, just to keep stool, soft bowel
movements. So Cola wouldn’t be like the stuff
Dave Etler: that
you would take if you were having like intestinal surgery is what I’m talking
about or like a colonoscopy you’ve got to get rid of it.
Yeah. Yeah. The go lightly is what they use her, which is
not which, which is like the worst name for a product ever, because it is not true.
You do not go like
Annie Rempel: heavily
Dave Etler: for a
long time. It’s another respective from a 50 year old.
Yeah. Yeah. Increase your intake of water.
Marisa Evers: So
GoLYTELY is sodium sulfate, sodium chloride, sodium bicarb, and potassium chloride.
So
Dave Etler: potassium,
Marisa Evers: sodium,
France without
Sophia Williams-Perez: fleets.
What am I? Oh, perhaps it’s just showing me. I should probably brush up before
Annie Rempel: intern
year. Oops.
Dave Etler: What
are you going to do again? Oh,
Marisa Evers: I’m
blanking.
The first thing that comes up is fleet and it goes to, Oh
Sophia Williams-Perez: yeah,
you’re going to, so I knew the cactus spine. Excellent. That’s
Dave Etler: right.
Should have known. Sorry, what were you saying?
Marisa Evers: The
first thing that shows up is for the fleets is it just says gentle glide,
Dave Etler: gentle
glide. Is that a feature of
Marisa Evers: fleets
that there are still glide tip designs for maximum comfort
Annie Rempel: soft
it’s flexible.
Dave Etler: It’s
fair. Gliding. That sounds nice. I’m
Annie Rempel: glad
right on brother.
Dave Etler: I’d
rather it be that than other words,
Annie Rempel: rigid,
Dave Etler: slamming
special slamming tip,
Annie Rempel: rigid
wide gauge tip,
but yes, over you’re right. It is study impossible. That’s
under
Dave Etler: that.
That’s in another section of Amazon. Oh my God. How long have we been doing
this?
Sophia Williams-Perez: dangerous.
Dave Etler: Oh my
God. All right. I’ve got one more. Over the years, we’ve, as I’ve said, we’ve
actually learned a few things from our discussions on Yahoo at questions. But
sometimes I learn things from the answers to start. Here’s the question. Let’s
see if you know. The possible diagnosis for this person who is very concerned.
I’m going to get me a better. Okay. Here we go. I have white
Annie Rempel: dots
around the gland of my penis. What is this? It’s a very good
Dave Etler: question.
You’ve got white dots, multiple thoughts.
Annie Rempel: Do
they
Sophia Williams-Perez: ever
do drops on Rose pedals?
Annie Rempel: But
Sophia Williams-Perez: then
I would say good pal to hurt.
Annie Rempel: Oh,
okay. Are these painful? We need to know. Are they painful
Dave Etler: or
not?
No, that would have been, that would have been something I
would’ve
discussed.
Yeah.
Annie Rempel: I
Sophia Williams-Perez: have
painful white
dots
Annie Rempel: or. Yeah.
Dave Etler: Okay.
That’s not what the answer was. You could be penis, you could have penis
deaths. I’m sure that’s a thing. What’d you call it?
Cockney.
Annie Rempel: I’m taking that
out.
Dave Etler: Don’t mean to
align our friends across the pond.
brilliant. Yeah, the answer that was in the th those are all
probably, I mean, you know, like I’m, who am I to judge? Differentials. I
don’t, I’m not a doctor, but the one that I learned about in the answers was in
my mind, earns the award for the most. What the
name of a condition? Pearly penile papules.
Annie Rempel: Is
that
Sophia Williams-Perez: an
accident like gnosis cause it just sounds like the
Annie Rempel: description
of
Dave Etler: what
they look like. Yeah. There’s a description. Pearly pearly penile papules, Y
Annie Rempel: yeah.
Sophia Williams-Perez: Yeah.
Dave Etler: Oh.
Marisa Evers: Cause
all of that, there’s like the six P’s when it comes to lichen planus. Right.
Sophia Williams-Perez: Except
for them it’s all purple purple in there.
Annie Rempel: Yeah.
Polygonal. You can have polygonal, papules.
Dave Etler: Are
they regular? Like we talking about like a regular polygon here.
Annie Rempel: Are
they papules? Are they plaques?
Marisa Evers: Can
it be both all I’m telling you
Dave Etler: all
I’m telling you, is that the name of this particular, that, of this particular
descriptive bit of, I don’t know.
What’s what’s the right word. Diagnosis. Diagnosis is not
the right
Annie Rempel: word,
but
But the name of this particular issue,
Dave Etler: curly,
penile, [00:48:00] papules. Why was the alliteration necessary in this case?
Why, why it makes it worse? Also why Purley
Annie Rempel: that’s,
that’s a thing. That’s what I have an image in my head of a skin. Some other
word available than purr. When you string those words together, it’s not,
Marisa Evers: I
don’t like it.
Opalescent
Sophia Williams-Perez: like
if it’s white or something, Milky
Like, you know, goes on that food border, but you see red.
Strawberry tongue.
Dave Etler: There
is a strong tradition of food descriptors for conditions. Okay. Thank God they
Dave Etler: there.
I, yeah, I just don’t like this particular string of words. They’re all fine on
their own. I don’t know about papule papules. That’s kind of a yucky name. You
guys are all used to this, but when I get exposed to these ideas, sometimes
they blow my mind, like who I just want to know who was the person who thought,
yeah, that’s how we’ll describe it in this gross way.
That sounds like
Annie Rempel: something
a dermatologist would say those words. Maybe we’re just, we’re in it too
Sophia Williams-Perez: deep.
We’re numbed.
Dave Etler: If
you’ve got this problem, if you’ve got this problem or some other do you go to the dermatologist or do you go
to the urologist? They
Marisa Evers: might
just send you back and forth to be honest
Annie Rempel: first,
probably
Sophia Williams-Perez: go
to your physician primary care, but then where would they send you if they
didn’t
Marisa Evers: know
how I know when I was in Durham, we had to see some genital concerns.
Sophia Williams-Perez: So
it could be either. Yeah, I suppose. Yeah. It depends on characteristic. Like,
does it look infectious or does it just look like a skin thing,
Dave Etler: you
know, The these, this particular, which I’m not going to say again. The, the
commenters thought it was a normal feature, you know, like a normal feature of.
It was within normal limits.
The PPP. Did they show
Annie Rempel: up?
They
Marisa Evers: did
not. I was going to say, I don’t think he would upload Dick pics too. I mean,
you probably can. I don’t know. I’m pretty sure I don’t want it. Where am I
going to get that?
Dave Etler: And
some things on Yahoo answers and in my quest it’s possible. I don’t know if they
stay there, but yeah, it seemed to be that the commenters seem to think it was
it.
Within normal limits this issue, but again, they didn’t ask
as many penetrate. They didn’t ask as many important questions.
I caught myself
Marisa Evers: word,
Annie Rempel: Oh
God, put that in the trading. No, let’s not mix
Dave Etler: that
in at all. Well, that’s our show. Sophia. Marissa, Eric, Annie, thank you so
much for being on the show with me today. It’s been lovely.
Annie Rempel: Thanks,
Dave Etler: Dave.
And what, what kind of pearly penile papule would I be if I
didn’t. Thank you. Shortcuts for making us a part of your week. If you liked
what you heard today. Subscribe to our show, wherever fine podcasts are
available. Our editors are AGA Chowdhury and Eric Bozart and Alex Belzer is our
marketing coordinator.
The show is made possible by a generous donation by Carver
college of medicine, student government, yay, and ongoing support from the
writing in humanities program. Our music is by Dr. Roxanne captain sphere. I’m
Dave Etler saying don’t let the bastards get you down and talk to you in one
week.
`
Is Your Affective Presence Killing Your Dream?
Apr 09, 2021
You can have the best scores and grade, but personality counts
TL;DR
Affective presence is the lasting and stable impressions your interaction partners get from you.
Your scores and grades only get you in the door.
It’s your personality that makes you a medical student, and later, a doctor. So make sure you’re giving off the right vibes!
Listener Kalmen reminds us of a paths for some students who don’t match.
Dave continues his ruminations about why a very few people don’t match into residency. He thinks that some of those people (who weren’t the victims of luck or strategic errors) were burdened by a negative affective presence–the feelings that others have about interpersonal interactions with them.
Which brings up (at least) two questions: how do you know if people have a negative impression of your affective presence? And even if you do notice, how do you fix it? M4 Holly Conger, M3 Emma Barr, and M1s Albert Pedroza and Rick Gardner help him hash it out.
And reacting to Dave’s other concerns about graduating students having additional paths if they don’t match, listener Kalmen writes in to theshortcoats@gmail.com to point out that some states do have such a path. These states offer licensing for so-called associate or assistant physicians. Aside from the confusing name of this kind of practitioner, Dave is down with that because he just wants everyone to be happy. But many–including Holly–aren’t so sure.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you! And remember that we livestream every recording on our Facebook group, The Short Coat Student Lounge. Join us and help us with our discussions!
Dave Etler: [00:00:00]Welcome back to the short coat
podcast, a production of the university of Iowa Carver college of medicine .
I’m Dave Etler. With me today in the studio. I have Emma Barr. Hello. Hi, Emma.
And then , uh, I , uh, Oh, good Lord. I don’t know what just happened.
Coming to us from the internet. We have
Albert Pedroza. Hello? Yeah, it’s still an audio podcast. We have
Nicole Heinz. Oh, yeah, the coal Hines. I’m I’m this is a good start. I’m
kicking butt podcast and wise today. And we have Holly Conger. Hey there. Yeah. So today we’re going to talk about a
touchy subject, a subject that before the show, Nicole said she was a little
nervous about Leland.
What little nervous. You’re
Holly Conger: a little nervous.
Nicole. I’m a little nervous.
Nicole Hines: I’m always a little
Dave Etler: nervous though. It’s
fun. Fine. It’s fine. We’re going to talk about personality. We’re going to be,
you know, like is being smart, technically proficient, hardworking enough when
it comes to a career in medicine, or
will I don’t, you know, like I don’t want to broaden it to personality.
Cause I feel like that is like,
okay. Or will your personality kill your
chances at a career as a physician? Now the answer is no, but I want to talk
about, the kinds of personalities that make your life more difficult in
achieving that goal. But first I do want to say, and this is something I’ve
been wanting [00:02:00] to say for a while on the show.
And I haven’t really known how, but that is, there is some shit going down in
America. And I wish I could help, but all I have is this podcast in my wildest
dreams, you have the support, you need to lead a life of your choosing. You deserve to be happy, healthy, and successful in whatever ways you define
those words.
So if you need support because you
experienced racism, discrimination, harassment, mental health crisis, I want you to be able to get the help you
need. And so I’m going to put some links
in the show notes from now onto some resources, but the bottom line is that for
what it’s worth, I see you.
I wish I could do more and maybe I can.
In ways that I don’t understand yet or know about yet. But I see you and I’m
glad you’re here. And other people are too. Thank you. Listener feedback from
Coleman about assistant physicians or associate physicians. So common is
working towards a nursing degree.
With an eye on medical school someday,
you heard us talking about students who didn’t match and know someone who
wasn’t successful on her first try.
Fortunately, she was successful in her second tribe. So, but our
discussion resonated with common because of that. I hope I’m pronouncing your
name, right? He points out that the States of Missouri, Arkansas, Utah, and
Kansas have started licensing a new form of provider called an AP.
Or GRP. I’m not sure what GRP stands
for. But H AP I think is a assistant physician. He says these are medical
school graduates who take step two and get boarded to practice in a legal
framework, virtually identical to physician assistants. Hm. It’s just something
we’re more familiar with. He said he contacted the state rep and she was
willing to attempt to pass it where he is.
And several other, other States are
working on this as well. And I’ll add verbatim what he said. I’d say medical
schools and medical students who you lobby for these laws, as well as raise
awareness that such programs exist because they seem to be the best kept secret
in medical education almost every year, at least one and four commit suicide
after failing to match.
If we can soften the blow just a little,
we can save careers. Save mental health and perhaps [00:04:00] even save some
lives. So yeah, Arkansas, Kansas, Utah. And Missouri. And so I did a little
research. We’ve talked about this on the show before. I did a little research,
Arkansas these folks practice under the supervision of a physician.
I think there is a a naming problem
here. I think associate physician or assistant physician sounds too much like
physician assistant. Yeah. I would suggest associate MD. How about that?
Emma Barr: Do these people like go
into that job, working like with the idea of doing it for a year and applying
Dave Etler: again?
Well,
this is what I’m thinking. I mean, maybe I think that’s possible. I
think there should be a path going forward. From MD into a full fledged,
independent physician you know, say after X years of call it associate MD hood
or, you know, you could do your job hunt outside the match just like normal
people do.
When you think about that. I feel like
if you
Emma Barr: say you have to do X
number of years before you become like a like board certified, that’s basically
just yeah.
Dave Etler: Essentially. Yeah.
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I’m down with that. And
Emma Barr: you have to have
regulations over, like, did you see this many kinds of patients and. That kind
of stuff.
Nicole Hines: So are you, are you
recommending people apply, apply for it? Sorry. What was, what you just said
where you say people apply for these while they’re also applying for the match
or after they don’t match, then they look for these
Dave Etler: positions. Yeah. Oh, I
think probably the default should be matching. And I, and the reason I think
this is because actually the match
success rate is actually pretty high.
Most people at least you know, like above 90% of people, I think
it’s like 94% of people nationally find their match. And we do a little bit
better than that. Actually, we do pretty well. So I think that’s how the
default should be, but I also think I also feel that we should have a path
forward.
In some way, and this kind of struck me
as like, well, if you provide that path, th WMC, for instance, disagrees with
this whole idea they [00:06:00] cite patient safety and I know among
physicians, it’s a controversial plan and maybe Holly has. Thoughts about that now
that she’s almost a physician I’m willing to bet that Holly does have thoughts.
I do. Yeah, go ahead. What are your
thoughts?
Holly Conger: I guess I’m confused as
to what those purpose would be, because I know that there’s usually two groups
of people who don’t match there’s those who were, you know, Great applicants
going for a very competitive specialty that don’t match that can very easily
soap into something else or do a prelim year and apply again or take a research
year to go for that super competitive thing again.
Or there’s people who weren’t going for
anything competitive and for whatever reason that may be, whether they have a
red flag on their effort interview terribly or whatever it is, don’t match,
even in a non-competitive specialty. And I think those are the people that
maybe this is aimed at. Cause I think it’s normal to try and soak.
And so like they’re not match rate. I
don’t know if that counts people who had the soap or not, or if it’s just
straight up didn’t match ever after the soap or not.
Dave Etler: Well, again I think
this is an alternate path for people who, okay, so here’s the thing. If you
have an MD and you can pass step exams and your only roadblock to getting hired
for a residency position is well, and your only roadblock is getting hired to be
a resident because the system trains several thousand people more than it can
handle every year.
I think that that’s what I’m aiming for.
Holly Conger: Yeah, it was like,
there are fewer applicants for the spot, so I don’t think
Albert Pedroza: there’s a lot of spots
that go and fill every single year.
Dave Etler: But why is that? Is it
because they do they give up? I mean, this is what I don’t understand.
Like did those, those programs could
fill their positions if they wanted to.
Albert Pedroza: I think so, but I think
the issue is with the whole matching process with the whole algorithm. And then
I don’t think there’s anything set in place for the ones who don’t match
besides the soap. So there’s soap and then. There’s nothing else after, so yes.
And then those spots go unfilled,
Dave Etler: but again, why do they
go unfilled? You can match [00:08:00]
outside soap after soap is complete. That is a thing that you can do, but
people don’t,
Nicole Hines: is it a lack of
interest in that specific field? Like, even if you don’t match, but you’re
given.
Just the one field that you absolutely
don’t want to go into.
Dave Etler: Well, I mean, that’s
possible. I don’t think
Albert Pedroza: so because there’s a
lot of specialties that go that have spots that are unfilled. It’s not just a
few
Holly Conger: like family medicine
and internal medicine, psychiatry, I think are the ones that always have spots,
but like, ER, the surgical subspecialties, like usually they have none.
Dave Etler: Yeah. I mean, there are
certain, there are certain that don’t have any problem filling their positions,
but also there are certain, there are people who want to go into positions that
just don’t have that they don’t make it in because the numbers aren’t there for
them. And what I’m saying is that,
perhaps.
Students are making choices about their
specialty that are unrealistic, maybe. I think that’s possible, but I also
think that you know, the other problem with soap is that the more times you go
through it, I eat more than once. The less likely you are to match them next
year.
Emma Barr: Do you mean like each
round
Dave Etler: during the soap week?
No. No, no. If you go through it next
year, again, your chances drop by. Tens of percent. Yeah. Cause it looks like a black Mark and I, I
don’t like it. I just don’t like it. I think the whole system is weird. I mean,
like we are, on a personal level and
after 18 years of doing this, like sometimes match looks like I don’t know, I’m
used to the concept.
But everybody else who looks at this as
like what in the world,
Holly Conger: it’s a very weird
process for sure. Very anxiety provoking, even when it goes your way, even when
it turns out while it’s super stressful,
Dave Etler: weird. It’s just a
weird situation. I mean, on the one hand, it’s nice because. You know, 95% of
people get a position, but then there are those people who it’s kind of a
mystery as to why they didn’t get a position.
And they’re kind of screwed a little
Emma Barr: bit. So were you saying
that programs can see how many times an applicant goes through the soap?
Dave Etler: I believe [00:10:00]
that that is
Emma Barr: well, they can tell
that they’re reallocate and probably
Dave Etler: yes, yes. Now. Okay. So
there, I know there are a lot of edge cases. I know this is a weird idea.
That I’ve had. But you know, I don’t
feel like it’s necessarily a safety
issue as the WMC fears. Guess my question would be like, well, let me, let me
finish your goal for that person. They’re going to go to residency. My, goal is
either for them ultimately, as a career in the thing that they spent $300,000
doing and which they are competent to do based on the fact that they’re
graduating from medical school.
And they passed. The licensing exams. If
that’s what the bar is for being safe enough to practice medicine, to being
knowledgeable enough to practice medicine, they have achieved those things. The
only thing they didn’t achieve was getting a job after med school and the
stakes in that situation are so high to me that we, as a as an industry, I
guess, as a system, I feel like we should be providing them with a backup plan.
No, Holly sonar, Holly, Holly. Has never
bought anything less than what I am saying, right.
Holly Conger: To play devil’s
advocate on the flip side, you know, if someone is not matching multiple times,
you know, I would question why, you know, and I would question like, is that
someone that I would want. To take care of my family.
Like, is there something coming out and
this whole process, that’s like a big red flag possibly,
Dave Etler: but it’s also possible
that it’s just bad luck. I mean, once you don’t match once that is enough to
plummet your chances by a certain number of points. Right? Well,
Holly Conger: I think it will, every
time you have
Albert Pedroza: to apply, but it also
has to do with, for example, let’s say you have somebody who applies to 10
different places and they only ranked 10 places I mean, the chances of them not
matching is higher than somebody who let’s say applies to 40 places.
Dave Etler: Yes you can make it,
you know, you can make mistakes. Yeah. In how you rank people, et cetera. And
the mistake that you could make is, I mean, basically we tell people during the
match, like you have to [00:12:00] rank enough spaces, enough programs to make
sure that you match that is your goal.
Soap is not a backup plan. And so we
tell people that, and invariably some
people are specific enough in their wants and needs to have that be a problem
for them. And so, yeah. I understand that.
I know that there are a lot of reasons why somebody might not match, but
the reason I don’t like is the chance part of it.
I just want people to be happy. I want
people to be happy. Yeah. I know I want people to be, I want people after
they’ve spent $300,000 and invested so much money and so much time and so much
energy. I want people to have something. I have two
Emma Barr: thoughts. So one of
them you’re saying that like, once you take your step exams and you graduate
from medical school, you’re like quality qualified doctor, but that’s not
really true.
Dave Etler: What I’m saying is that
you’re qualified to be a resident. So you’re qualified. I mean, assuming that
this idea gets enacted, you are qualified to be an associate MD. Right.
Whatever you want to call it. And you are qualified to practice under the
supervision of a resident, right. Of a physician who may not be part of a
residency program, but who is nevertheless a physician.
Emma Barr: Right. But then if you
take that to employers, like that’s not associated with the residency program,
they’re not used to, like, they may not be used to having that. So that would
be a barrier too.
Dave Etler: I mean, I’m not saying
that. You know, you propose this, you make it and it fit in and happens
overnight. .
Holly Conger: I guess I would wonder,
like, how do you get them licensed and how do you get them insured? Because you
graduated from med school, but you didn’t go to residency and it creates this
weird, you’re not board certified. You never trained, like, what are you, what
can you
Dave Etler: do?
Yeah. Well, I think that’s the intent of
these laws in these, you know, Four and perhaps growing number of States
that, are looking into this, that
Holly Conger: comes with it, or just
if you dropped a fourth year med student, which is basically what somebody who
didn’t match is into a hospital and said, go.
You know, they need residency to teach
you how to do whatever it is. And so like, I definitely wouldn’t
Dave Etler: work that
Holly Conger: way, struggling to
imagine a path where they can just like, be a pseudo position, [00:14:00] I
guess. I just like don’t know what their role would be. Yeah. Well,
Albert Pedroza: I think what Dave is
saying is that you’d have sort of like an apprenticeship.
Dave Etler: Yes, actually, that’s a
better way of putting what I’ve said,
Albert Pedroza: for example, like
somebody who you don’t necessarily have to go to college to become an
electrician, they have a program where you work under an electrician for two,
four years. And then after that certain amount of time they basically say,
okay, you were supposed to learn everything you needed to become an
electrician.
And I think that’s what Dave is saying, right?
Dave, like under a physician. And then after a certain amount of years, you
would be. Said too. It would be said that you’re competent to be a physician.
Dave Etler: I think that’s it
exactly what I’m saying and, and said ever so much better than what I said I
know that people would have difficulties with the comparison between, you know,
an electrician and a.
And a doctor or something like that. I
understand that. But conceptually that’s what residency is. Anyway, a residency
is an apprenticeship model. It’s just not called that. And the other problem with my idea is that
residency is also very structured. You know, in a lot of ways, you know, there
are things that you can do as a, as a second year that you’re not doing as an
intern.
And then there are the classes and
things like that. So I know there’s a lot of details to work out. I just want
people to be happy. I want people to leave here. I want everybody to leave here
with prospects and not have to wait an entire year or more before achieving
their life’s ambition. I think I just, I like it.
Holly Conger: I agree. And I think
that I mean there’s like weird consulting jobs and other things that you could
do, but usually the best path is to go to residency. I guess I would just be
concerned if you just like eat. All of the regulation of residency and all of
the training requirements and careful planning to make sure you’re competent,
you know, like that would be very scary to me.
So like letting someone just like avoid
that whole path and still hold the same title and responsibilities would
frighten me.
Dave Etler: Yeah. Again, I’m not
arguing that there isn’t structure. I’m just arguing for. An additional path
[00:16:00] that puts them on the road too. And maybe when I say achieving their
dream, I’m, arguing to put them on a path that will allow them to approximate
something of what they imagine their life would be like.
Let’s, let’s be honest, nobody, In this
world, most people don’t achieve their
life dreams, you know, like it’s just not a thing. You know, so I guess
nobody has the right to achieve their dream, but if you work really hard
and you’re a good person and you, and
you, embody the ideas and it just doesn’t work out for you.
Especially after you’ve paid so much
money and so much time and so much effort, it doesn’t seem right. Yeah. Okay.
Enough. I have an, I have a whole nother, I’m going to give myself the last
word because you all had come up with with very
reasonable objections to my plan, but I still like my plan.
You’re making
Holly Conger: me feel like a butt
humbug over here, but like, I don’t
Dave Etler: I love you, Holly.
Let’s
Emma Barr: see, actually
listening. I have one more word. That’s what I have to do with that specific
idea. I was listening to a podcast on how to give your elevator speech on like
a project proposal or whatever. Yeah. So I feel like you just gave us your
elevator speech and we’re giving you feedback and you’re not supposed to wait
too long into your like planning period.
Introducing the idea to other people.
Cause then you get too attached to the idea, but you also don’t want to
introduce it too early because then you might not have some thoughts I
Dave Etler: have. And so what
you’re saying is that perhaps have introduced this idea to appreciate that.
That is excellent. It’s all been great feedback, like, okay.
Like as I said, you all have said
reasonable things to me about why this is. If not impossible, at least there
are problems that need to be worked out right
Holly Conger: now.
Emma Barr: You can go work on it
and then come back to us.
Dave Etler: All right. All right. I
will add this to what was I supposed to do last week?
There was something I was supposed to
fix last week. I can’t remember what it was. This
Holly Conger: headphones.
[00:18:00] Dave
Etler: This is not good.
Holly Conger: I know. It’s like
licensing. Each state fester rules for how many times you can fail a board exam
and still be licensed. And so sometimes I think that is what gets in the way of
certain people. Because if you fail step one more than Y you lose a lot of
States that you can even be a doctor in.
If you fail it three times, it’s even
more, you know, like there’s a lot of nuance in there, I think. Yeah.
Dave Etler: Yes.
Affective Presence All right. Let’s shift
gears for a minute, cause I want to talk about something else. That affects
your career. I want to talk about
effective presence. Do you know what effective presence is?
I did not know what effective presences
until this week. Anybody, any, any ideas did you read?
Nicole Hines: I read the article.
Yeah,
Holly Conger: I think you could
explain it better.
Dave Etler: All right. Effective
presence is the consistent and stable feelings that an individual tends to
leave in their interaction partners. This is an interpersonal trait because it
is defined by the experiences of the interaction partners rather than by those
of the focal person, which means that you can’t judge this on your own, or you
might not be able to judge this on your own.
I worry that some people enter medical
school with personalities that will make it tough for them to get a residency
position or to achieve everything they want to in their careers. And you know,
so, one of my questions, you know, was effective presence of factor in the 2021
match. And you know, who knows?
There’s no way for me to know whether
that’s true or not, but I do know that, there was some decrease in certain
categories of people applying to the match in, in their success. And maybe one
of the problems that people are talking about is Students spent more time doing
clerkships in their own institutions while institutions [00:20:00] were trying
to protect their own because they couldn’t go away for match for a residency.
They couldn’t go away for a way
rotation. Good luck. All residency interviews, you couldn’t go away for a away
rotations. And so they had to spend all their time in their home institutions
and for some people. And, and so that meant that students had more
opportunities to impress their home in institutions specialty decision-makers
or the opposite or not.
So even though some think that home
institutions protected their own by ranking people, they knew more highly it’s
possible that overexposure hurt some people who didn’t deserve that outcome. So
that’s my thesis thoughts so far. So I’m looking at, you know, like Holly for
some reason is, is I’m gonna, I’m going to on the live stream, I’m going to
turn a Holly, I turn on grid grid view again, because Holly is the only one
looking at me.
And I feel like after the first topic
today, Holly’s face basically is saying, Dave, Got
Holly Conger: trying to say that with
Dave Etler: my face. Well, now, now
I’m reading into everything hot into every, into Holly’s every expression
change.
Nicole Hines: She using her eyebrows
today. She’s
Dave Etler: using her eyebrows very
expressively.
Emma Barr: Oh, I don’t want to
receive that comment again.
Holly Conger: Sorry, Emma.
Emma Barr: I had so. When I was
reading the, the popular ardor article, not the actual manuscript, it seemed
like they focused on the negative aspect of effective. What is it called?
Effective, effective, present, present. And there were saying like, you know,
you can annoy people and things like that. But then when I looked at the
manuscript or the study that you sent us, I didn’t read all of it.
It was like 54 pages. But they, it
seemed like they were talking more about, can be a positive thing or a negative
Dave Etler: thing. And it
absolutely can be, of course. You know, if you. And, and that’s the point,
right? If you, if you walk into a room and people want to interact with you,
you probably have, and they know you, you probably know I already have a
[00:22:00] positive affective presence.
But there are people, and I think we
know people, we can probably each, you know, sort of think of people that we
know in our lives, who on occasion you’re like, or maybe the instant, they walk
into a room you’re like, Hmm. You know, like, I like you. I like you in all.
Emma Barr: But I wish you weren’t
here right now.
Dave Etler: Where’s there other
people in your life. You walk into a room and homeowner, no matter what you’re
doing, you’re happy to see them. You’re happy for the interruption or whatever.
Circumstance there was,
Emma Barr: but I’m also wondering,
are they also talking about, you know, those kinds of people that can walk into
a room and like whatever their emotion is, like, it kind of spreads throughout
the room.
Like if they’re happy, everyone else can
be happy. But if they’re like having a bad day and grumpy, then everybody else
is kind of, I don’t know.
I
Nicole Hines: don’t think that’s what
it really is because there was a line in there that said like, Some people
could be like super depressed, but they’ll be the positive kind of effective presence.
Okay. So
Emma Barr: yeah, it’s more
constant, like a constant negative or
Dave Etler: stable feelings. Yeah.
According to the definition they read consistent and stable feelings.
Holly Conger: I’ve met people before
that just like, I don’t know what it is, but they irritate me and I’ve also met
people that I just like really enjoy being around.
But those people, I don’t think are
always the same for everyone, you know? So I might find somebody annoying, but
you might think they’re great. You know? And so I was, was wondering like, how
consistent is this across.
Dave Etler: I did read something
that said that maybe it was what maybe it was the popular article that I posted
that, that said that research seems to say that those are, that those feelings
are, are more or less stable across people too.
So it’s so that the same person that you
might feel positive about other people also feel positive about it, but of
course that’s not a hundred percent true. I mean, I
Holly Conger: think.
Nicole Hines: With the people that
come to mind for me, it, it definitely seems to be more of that stable feeling
that just everybody around kind of gets that energy from them.
Albert Pedroza: is effective presence,
[00:24:00] essentially? Charisma is what, right?
Holly Conger: Hmm. That’s what I was
going to say. I was like, I think if you’re like a compelling person or like a
good leader, like you’re, you know, you can woo people, but there were
Dave Etler: people who. I guess.
So, I mean, charisma, I feel like charisma has a, has a connotation for me that
is more about public versus private, but maybe that’s, maybe that’s a false,
like if you have charisma, you know, you’re, if you say somebody has charisma
often you’re referring to there.
Sort of like onstage personality kind of
thing, but maybe that’s bullshit. I don’t know. I’m not going to say you’re,
I’m not going to say you’re wrong. I don’t know. I think it might
Nicole Hines: kind of be like social
intelligence or like self-awareness type thing. Yeah, because the memories I
have interacting with the people who come to mind, it’s like I would be talking
with somebody and they would just.
Out of nowhere up here and decide that
they were hanging out with us and they wouldn’t get the signals that they
weren’t really welcome.
Holly Conger: They were so emotional,
super relevant.
Dave Etler: Yeah, exactly. That’s
so I was thinking about like, Oh, say, so the problem, as I tried to point out
before, the problem is you can’t tell or if you’re let me put it this way,
unless you really think about it, it’s hard to tell.
What your effect is on other people in
this way. So you really have to pay attention, you know, you have to, you know,
how do you know how you affect other people? I mean, you have to watch what
people do when you talk to them for more than a couple of minutes. If they
start doing other things, they start looking at their phone.
If they start, you know, clicking their
computer mouse or whatever, there’s one of two things that is going on. Either
you interrupted them. And they have something that they really need to get
done. Or they may be wishing that the conversation is over. The effect is the
same, you know, either way.
That’s a strong hint to go, Hey look,
great talking to you. I gotta go.
Nicole Hines: when I said I was, I
was nervous at the beginning and something instantly came to mind. This is kind
of where it lies. [00:26:00] And it’s that like, you can’t tell whether you
have that positive or negative, but if you have like really bad anxiety or
insecurity and you already constantly think, or self-critical in any situation that
you’re in and you think, Oh, all these people hate me.
They’re judging everything. I said, when
in reality, They like you have such a good point.
Dave Etler: What impact does that
have? Yeah,
Albert Pedroza: well, I would, I would
actually disagree that you don’t, that you wouldn’t be able to know. What sort
of presence you have, because let’s say you have people constantly telling you,
Oh, you know, good job.
Like these people like you, or like, we
like you, we want you to come back around. Like, that’s essentially, you’re
getting feedback from somebody they’re telling you, like, Hey, I enjoyed our,
either our conversation, our whatever. And so I think people give feedback
Dave Etler: don’t they. Yeah, we’re
not talking about your mom,
Nicole Hines: that validation doesn’t
always come and it doesn’t always come at the right times.
Emma Barr: Exactly. Like I’ve had
two clinical experiences where I’m working with a team and I interpret silence
or like no feedback as like I’m doing a bad job. Like I I’m automatically self
critical. And then I find out, you know, A day, a few days later when I asked
her feedback, they’re like, no, you’re doing great.
Like, you know, this is awesome. All
this like positive stuff. I’m like, why didn’t you tell me, like, I’ve been
thinking I’m doing wrong the
Dave Etler: whole time is why it’s
really hard to know. Isn’t it. It’s, it’s hard to tell. I mean, you almost, you
have to ask, which is why you ask, you know, this is why you ask
Albert Pedroza: it’s a little bit weird,
like, yeah.
Cause
Emma Barr: it’s like your
personality, like
Holly Conger: there’s only so much
you can change.
Dave Etler: Well, look, I mean,
there are ways, there are people that you could ask, right? You could, you
could pay for a coach if you want it to do. I mean, that’s an extreme, that’s
extreme. Possibility. Right. What
Emma Barr: do they like follow you
around and ask the people
Dave Etler: for you?
No, but I mean, they could help
[00:28:00] you figure it out. They could
help you, like for instance, say, you know, well, what do people do when you
talk to them for more than minutes? Do they start clicking their computer
mouse? I mean, you could ask your
mentors, but again, you know, I know what you’re going to say, which is that
you know, they’re not always, probably willing to say, well, you know, you’re
kind of annoying.
Holly Conger: I kind of don’t like
you, but I also can’t tell you how to fix it. I think that like emails or
whether this is relevant for medical school, but I think this applies to every
field, you know, like every field you get ahead of people like you, every
field, it’s important to be able to, you know, work with people and get them to
want to do what you say and all of that.
But I wonder how it’s separate from just
like those like social skills and emotional intelligence, you know, like,
because. Part of like the biggest feedback people have given medicine is like
read the route, you know, pay attention and know when to shut up. And when it’s
okay to ask a question when you’re being annoying and then, you know, when the
resident can teach you, you know, like just
Dave Etler: pay attention.
This reminds me of helping my father fix
things when I was a child. My father is a lovely man, but he would get very
impatient when trying to fix things. And I can understand this because
sometimes it doesn’t go well. And then you have a, like a ten-year-old. Like
hanging around going what’s that?
What’s this? Oh, can I help? Can I help?
Can I help daddy? What are you doing? Daddy? And finally, my father is like,
I’m like, okay, so this is part of the
learning
Holly Conger: for me.
Emma Barr: So you’re saying that
annoying people didn’t get yelled at us kids
Albert Pedroza: basically.
Holly Conger: Or I wonder if it’s
bad, what is it? Bad essence. Bad.
that effect, if that correlates to
people with like low emotional intelligence or lower social skills. I wonder if
it correlates, if it’s secretly kind of the same thing.
Dave Etler: I suspect that that is
true. Yeah.
Albert Pedroza: Dave, did you ever get
yelled at for not holding the light in the correct? Oh yeah,
Dave Etler: yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Holly Conger: Your [00:30:00] analogy
is reminding me of like the classic med student in surgery over the med
students. Like, what’s this, what are you doing? Why’d you do that? What do you
do next? Can I hold this? Can I like get in here? You know, I can, they’re just
like back.
Emma Barr: And then they’re like,
your one job is to suction. Why aren’t you sectioning production?
Holly Conger: And you’re like, I
don’t know. You yelled at me to get
Nicole Hines: One of my interactions
with a person that comes to mind and like the social awareness is this memory
of being in a class, in a computer lab. And they chose to sit right next to me.
And at one point they turn to their left, which is a sign them on and they
sneeze. On my hand and they
Holly Conger: don’t acknowledge it,
Nicole Hines: sorry.
Like they just sneezed on my hand and go
back to their statistics. And I made sure by them again, I, I wasn’t. Confident
enough to address it. I just went and washed my hands and came back and got my
work done. I didn’t want to deal with that. I’d already had enough run this
person. It was only spring semester of freshman year.
Dave Etler: That’s the kind of
thing though. I mean, recognize when you’ve made a mistake, right? Because we
all make mistakes. I mean, I know like what was it just the other day? You
know, I had yet another brilliant idea. I always joke that I’m so full of good
ideas about how to improve medical education, but nobody ever thinks they’re
good ideas, you know?
So I was walked into somebody’s office.
I think it was Matt Edwards. And I was like, Matt. Got a great idea. Let me
tell you all about it. And. At some point, I can’t remember what he said, but
he said something that to me was like I have things to do. And so at that
moment I was like, Oh, I wonder how, how long I’ve been unwanted.
So as I left, I cracked a joke about, I
basically said, you know, I’m sorry I took up your time. Kind of thing and
cracked a joke cause I left and he laughed and hopefully that diffuse
[00:32:00] the situation. But the point is that, you know, it’s possible to
make mistakes. That’s fine. Hopefully if you have the humility to admit that you screwed up, that you
sneezed on the hand of the person next to you.
Emma Barr: Like if you, if you
recognize how socially inappropriate you were, it’s not as bad.
Dave Etler: Cause you’re gonna make
them, you’re gonna make mistakes. I bet
Albert Pedroza: to say that that person
did that sneezed on your hand, didn’t even know what was like socially
acceptable or not. If they’re just
Emma Barr: were, they were trying
to get back at you
Nicole Hines: interaction with them.
so right when I got to college, I went
for band camp. And we hadn’t even activity. So I went on a walk with my, who is
my best friend now, and this person decides that they’re coming on the walk
with us too, except they’re on the phone talking to somebody. So they’re
trailing like 10 feet behind us talking on the phone, telling them that they’re
going on a walk with some people from the
Dave Etler: wow.
Nicole Hines: Oh, what’s going on.
Like, we didn’t ask them to come. They’re saying they’re with us. And then once
their call ends, our conversation just kind of dies and they try to join in and
we’re just like,
Dave Etler: we’re done walking. I
feel
Holly Conger: like I’m just like an
anxious person. So I like kind of always watch how like people respond to me.
And therefore if I pick up on signals
that I’m annoying them, or this is not a good time. I quiet down very quickly.
And some people, I guess, just like don’t. Yeah, but I think maybe that’s part
of being like the teachable and like noticing thing, which being teachable is a
big skill, but I didn’t realize it till I came to med school.
You know, like being able to learn and
Institute feedback is something that a lot of people can’t do which is probably
part of this, because I’ve asked a question at the wrong time. I’ve been told
that now is not the time by a resident, but then you just like learn the
pattern [00:34:00] of Oh, Don’t do that again.
Dave Etler: Yeah, I, yeah. I mean,
absolutely. Again, you know, this, the cues sometimes are hard to read
depending on the situation. And, and so, you know, I learned that dad under the
sink means shut up. Yeah.
You learned that whatever situation
you’re in with that resident or in that situation, you know, Probably there are
better times to, to ask questions or contribute your observations or whatever.
But I, you know, like I want this to not be important, you know, like I want
this to not be important, but my gut says that it’s important.
You know, and I think probably 99% of
people who get into medical school, you know, have already have some, some
facility at this. But I think it’s possible that man, I don’t even like, I
don’t know if 99% is the right I get. Yeah. Okay. What the hell? Let’s just a
number of people who get into medical high number of people get into medical
school already have this unlock.
But that can’t be true for everybody.
And so I just thought it would be. You know, good to talk about, you know,
because the, the stakes are kind of high, right? I mean, I, I don’t know what
the actual number is, but I suspect. That, you know, let’s say 99% of medical
students eventually match. Okay. And it will, but it will cost you hundreds of
thousands of dollars in education to achieve that.
And there are no guarantees that, that
even if you get to the point where you’re ready to match that you will match.
And in fact, if you aren’t successful in the first trial, you have to wait. And
you know, all the things that we talked about earlier in the show will happen.
Would you even want to take the chance.
I think if
Albert Pedroza: you go a little bit
further, you can think about the responsibility that a physician will have in
the future. And I know that sometimes it’s a little bit. Easy to not think
about it, but really essentially what you’re going to be doing later on is
you’re going to have to take care of another human being and you have to be
willing to work under a high pressure, high pressure situation.
And you have to be okay [00:36:00] with,
for example, if you do something wrong, getting corrected, if you do something
that you weren’t supposed to do, getting corrected, receiving feedback, because
it’s such a high stakes profession.
Dave Etler: Yeah. And, and of
course also that, you know, if you, even, if it matched, even if matching
isn’t, you know, a problem for you, you’re still going to have to interact with
people and be a part of their lives.
And, and would you rather, you know, for
instance, patients. Seek you out if they need your help or would you rather
than be like, Oh, that sucked, I’m going to go. Or, you know, would your, would
you like knowing that your professional colleagues at least tolerate working
with you, you know, like, or are they, or instead of avoiding you, like,
anyway,
Emma Barr: another question I just
thought of like, is how quickly does that affective presence come out?
Like if you have like a, okay, so if you
have a 15 minute appointment with a patient. Are they going to not like you
instantly
Holly Conger: see what I was thinking
about is what, if you ever, 15 minutes residency interview. Yeah. That
Emma Barr: too, or like over zoom
too.
Dave Etler: Yeah. Yeah. I think it,
I think it comes fairly quickly, but you know, there is a, there, my guess is
from my own sort of feeling about this, my guess is that there is a.
Sort of a process of confirming, confirming
that idea, like
Emma Barr: the person interviewing
you or the patient, shouldn’t be so quick to judge you. Right. I
Dave Etler: don’t think anybody’s
going to immediately shut down, but people form their ideas pretty quickly.
Right. Actually
Holly Conger: I think in residency
interviews, that’s exactly what they’re trying to do.
I think the main, their main purpose. Do
I like this person, you know, like they don’t care anymore about scores or all
the activities on your app or your personal statement, because they’ve all
reviewed all that and decided they liked it enough to offer you an interview.
So the interview is pretty much exclusively about, do I want to work with you?
If I am on a night shift with you at
2:00 AM, are you the type of person I want to get to talk with? Or am I going
to want to just like bang my head against the wall? Because you won’t shut up
for like, I don’t like you and blah, blah, blah. And so, like, I think that’s
[00:38:00] exactly the purpose of residency interviews.
It’s just a little scary.
Albert Pedroza: So let’s say, we’re
saying that 15 minutes is not enough. I mean, what timeframe would be enough,
you know, so, I mean, if somebody doesn’t get a good feeling about you within
20, 30 minutes, do you want them to spend a couple of days with you a couple of
weeks?
Dave Etler: No.
Holly Conger: I mean, I think that’s
kind of like the away rotation argument that gives you more chance. To meet
more people for a longer period of time, for better or for worse, you know,
like it could work
Dave Etler: either way for you.
Less is more if, if you have this problem
Holly Conger: but like for instance,
the interviews, I think whether they’re zoom or in person, they’re usually
about 15 minutes. Some of the longer ones are like 30, but like, so they’ve
clearly decided that that’s enough for them to decide if the interview changes,
how they view you. Like, I think for some people it’s like, wow, I really like
this person.
I’m going to move them even higher up.
Or sometimes it’s like, wow, I really did move down. Or sometimes you stay the
Dave Etler: same, but w w you know,
I guess the question is, what can you even do about this? I mentioned like, you know, coaching, ask a
mentor, all this kind of stuff. you know, I think You’ve got to figure out what
it is that you’re good at and what it is that you need.
Help with, I mean, one of the things
that I know that I need help with is that I, I would imagine that sometimes my
jokey, you know, personality is like, you know, shut up, Dave.
Holly Conger: I’ve never really
thought that
Dave Etler: to be context here is
important.
Holly Conger: In other situations
that’s
Dave Etler: podcast, you’re trying
to get I’m serious done.
And there’s Dave Etler in the corner
crack in his little jokes, you know, I can imagine. And the other thing that I
do that I’m pretty sure is detrimental, but I don’t, I’m not sure that I can.
Care is I’m a bit self-effacing and this can be a turnoff. I know. I’ve heard
people on the show say, you know, that they were told that they were too
self-effacing and that it was kind of a problem because, you know, it gives
people the idea that you are in fact.
And ineffectual bumbling [00:40:00]
don’t know, puts that in their head for you. And the truth is that that a
self-defensive, that is a self-defense mechanism. Hello. That’s a self-defense
mechanism for, you know, like heading people off. So it’s best not to do too
much of that. In my opinion, one author says one author and the proprietor of
smalltalk science.com says that the best personalities are humble, caring and
unselfish, positive enthusiastic goal-oriented and compassionate, playful, and
flexible.
I can buy
Holly Conger: that’s a lot to live up
to all just like likable characters.
Dave Etler: Yeah. And I would add.
And I think we’ve, I think Holly said this before in the show, I would add that
some of those encompass the important skill of learning when to leave the room to
stop talking, to receive in the background, you know, flexibility, for instance
unselfish caring.
Those are two things that I think link
up with this skill of being like, you know what I’m going to shut up now. I
think,
Holly Conger: you know, being able to
recognize you’re not the center of the universe is always important, you know,
but like sometimes other things take priority over you and. I think one thing
that Nicole pointed out that I’ve, or maybe it was Emma, I don’t remember.
Like when you interpret silences that
hate you is I really did that a lot as a med student too. And it wasn’t until I
started being like the more advanced student on rotation, where I started to
realize, like, you’ve just got a lot going on, like the closer you get to a resident
and it’s not that you dislike the student or they’re doing bad, or you hate
them.
Sometimes you just like. Forget, you get
distracted doing all your other stuff and the anxious student that projects
like this be to add onto them, which happens a lot. But yeah. Yeah. Which I
guess I say to try and save students from doing exactly what it sounds like we
all do
Dave Etler: part of the problem in
that situation is that you’re expected to put yourself out there.
Right. You’re told I’ve. And in fact,
I’ve said on the show, you know, if you don’t talk, nobody’s going to know what
you know. And so there’s a bit of a conflict there. I, I understand that. But
again, read the room. Hmm.
Nicole Hines: I’m still curious
whether This affective presence is the same in person or virtually because with
people with negative presence, I’ve always [00:42:00] felt just like zapped and
drained.
The moment they come around and it’s
almost like an energy they bring to the room, but. Does that same energy come
when they’re across the screen, because like we’ve used the term when they walk
into the room, like when I sign into the room, do I bring that same feeling to
people don’t know.
Dave Etler: Yeah. That’s a good
question.
Emma Barr: I feel like it would
be, have to be super strong if you’re just sitting. If they’re sitting there,
like, I don’t know. I guess their Mike might not be off. Maybe they’re un-muted
Holly Conger: why I wonder
Nicole Hines: if at that point. If
you already see this person in that way, then every little thing they do is
annoying to you.
So if you already see somebody from
personal interactions like one-on-one or in public, then you see them virtually
you’re going to overanalyze every little thing they do. And it’ll just be more,
Dave Etler: yeah. It
Holly Conger: feeds on. I think the
only experience I have to try, and I guess it’s like the zoom interviews
because I had to do a bunch of them with people I’ve never met before.
And there was definitely ones where I
connected really well with the interviewer and I felt like they were going
super great. And I really liked the person, but know I definitely had some
really awkward. Awful ones that I was like, looking at the clock, like how many
minutes do I have, like, try and keep going with it.
Nicole Hines: What if your
interviewer has a negative effective presence? Well, how did they get to that
Holly Conger: position?
Dave Etler: Well, that’s a problem
because you’re also trying to judge, I mean, the other part of residency
interviews is you’re trying to judge them.
Holly Conger: Like, it’s all about
fit, which I’m hoping, like, no matter what your presence is, you’re supposed
to find that people who like you and want you, like, that’s the whole point.
So hopefully. You just find that, I
don’t know
Albert Pedroza: if this was true or
not, but didn’t they say that. During some med school interviews, they would
purposely try to have like a negative presence to see how you could alter that
presence. I don’t know if that
Holly Conger: was, so now we’re
getting that at one school. Now we’re getting
Dave Etler: into some science
[00:44:00] bullshit right here.
Holly Conger: When I interviewed at
one med school, you know, four years ago or whatever it was now I was in the
interview room and all of the lights shut off halfway through my interview and
like, wouldn’t come back on. And I remember being like, is this attached to
adversity? If that counts like unexpected stuff.
Dave Etler: You know, one thing
that I appreciate with awkward people is that, you know, I’ve, I’ve known some
weird people in my time here and in my life. And I think the ones that I love
the most are the ones who knew that they were weird. I remember one person even
thanked me once for sincerely, for pointing out a full paw and seemed genuinely
grateful for the feedback, which I found super endearing and made me love that
person even more.
So I think it’s possible to be awkward
and. Have trouble reading the room, but also be somebody people want to be
around. I genuinely liked being around this person, even though. I worried
about them.
Holly Conger: Maybe those are the
people that I would worry about on like a quick interview, like them getting to
know them to find them endearing.
Yeah.
Dave Etler: I think this is the
key, like display sincerity, self-awareness humility. Those are the three
things that I think could take the curse off. An otherwise problematic,
effective. Presence.
Holly Conger: Some of my favorite
friends have what I call like a really strong sense of self, which I think is
what you’re getting at, where they, they know that they’re a weirdo, but
they’re, that’s who they are and they don’t make any apologies for it.
And that’s who they are. And they still
don’t want to irritate people, but this is just who they are. And so sometimes
I really liked those
Dave Etler: people too. Yeah,
making the effort, I think is important too. You know, like, you know, it, it,
to the extent that you are aware of a problem, if you do nothing to ameliorate
that problem, and that’s obvious to the people who know you, maybe that’s kind
of, that’s kind of an issue.
I think one problem I have with this
thought and that you’ve sort of touched on Holly, is that if I argue that you
should focus on [00:46:00] the ideas and am I saying you aren’t great. Just the
way you are. Is that a valid thing for me to say? I mean, I’m not saying that
you suck, I’m saying that you have a choice that you can be unapologetically.
Awesome. Just the way you are and
understand the consequences of that choice or that there might be consequences
for that choice. Or you can try to make changes that enable you to achieve
something that you want to achieve. Both ideas are valid.
Holly Conger: I feel like you can be
unapologetically yourself and know that and know that that makes you really
great in a lot of situations.
But I think that also takes awareness in
which situation maybe some of your personality traits are not great. Just like
take some awareness, cause nobody’s going to be. Perfectly suited for every
situation. Yeah.
Dave Etler: I’m pretty sure that
the reasons that I’ve stated about myself as being a problem or the reasons
that I have never once been asked to help with resonant with a med school
interviews, even though I have offered,
because I think that they think I am
going to sit there and crack jokes the whole time. And, and just be, not
serious about it when, in fact, like I believe that I can go in there
completely serious and then completely professional about it. I just don’t show
them that side of me too often.
I’m the, like the least professional
Emma Barr: you should offer to do
a mock interview.
Dave Etler: That’s a good, that’s a
good point.
Holly Conger: Maybe it’s, they’re
worried. You’re just too nice of a guy that a really horrible student can
interview with you and you just like won’t write anything bad. That’s true.
Dave Etler: I’ve kind of made it.
No, I’ve kind of made a note that I love everybody.
Emma Barr: You just said you
wanted everybody to be happy. So
Holly Conger: apparently David said
dove, and maybe I’m the hock.
Dave Etler: You and I should
interview people together.
Etler team. Yeah. For
Emma Barr: anyone who’s listening.
If the lights go out, it is a test
Holly Conger: to make sure, to just
pretend it’s not a big deal. Be nonchalant, adaptable. [00:48:00] How would it
Nicole Hines: go over if you’re in
one of those rooms with like the motion sensors and your lights go off and you
just flood your heart a little bit and then pick up right where you are,
what just happened,
Holly Conger: whatever you gotta do.
I don’t know.
Dave Etler: There is a special subgroup of personalities that I
wanted to also address which is people who don’t suffer fools gladly students
who don’t suffer fools gladly. This is a problem because fools are everywhere.
They are. You know, among the residents there among the attendings there among,
you know, every, every, you know, like those people are out there.
And so I have some advice for those
people who I have also loved. Never let them see you. Roll your eyes. Wait, can
you
Emma Barr: explain, go back a
little bit. What do you mean by fools?
Dave Etler: I E you don’t like what
somebody is doing or. How they approach the world or how they think about the
world. And so you’re a fool.
And so basically if I thought that Emma bar, we have to clarify
camera here, if I thought the Emma bar, if I thought that you am a bar where a
dumb ass, but you were like my resident or my attending or whatever, there are
some people out there I have known who. Find it difficult to conceal, that sort
of emotion, that sort of frustration or annoyance.
So that’s what I, that’s what I say. Like
you don’t suffer fools gladly. And if you can, if you let them see you roll
your eyes, I said, all right, if you let them see you roll your eyes, then
they’re going to know that you think that they’re foolish and that’s not good.
Decide if you have to speak up.
There are dangerous situations and
ethical issues and things like that, HR problems, you know, things like that,
that you, you know, might reasonably think that you [00:50:00] should speak up
about. And again, you should know the consequences. If you do that, especially
if the person is of a higher status. So
if that’s what you’re going to do, whoever you talk to about this, whether it’s
that person or somebody that has control over that person or something, give
your feedback with sensitivity and love or don’t give it at all.
That’s my advice. Figure out how to say
it so that people will deal with the situation in a constructive manner. Offer
a solution with feedback, with offer a solution with the feedback. Or if you
don’t know what that solution is, at least say that, like, I don’t know what to
do about this. Maybe you have ideas.
Hmm. So is the
Albert Pedroza: person who rolled their
eyes? The one that’s
Dave Etler: clearly I’ve clearly
confused, used a confusing term
Holly Conger: for which I
Albert Pedroza: it’s the one who’s
rolling their eyes. The one who’s also giving the feedback. Yes. Okay,
Dave Etler: I follow you. So I
guess the point is like, if you see something that is truly a problem,
dangerous situations, ethical issues, HR problems, things that are like serious
situations that should be addressed, offer your feedback with love and
sensitivity.
While knowing that there could be
consequences. And if you can’t live with those consequences, then you have to
make a decision on whether to speak up or not. But the point is give your
feedback. Sensitivity love step back, consider your job done, you know, and
then wipe that wipe that look of contempt off your face because that’s, yeah,
Emma Barr: sometimes I feel like
it’s hard to tell whether it’s like just a personality thing or like what they
said or did was actually like something concerning.
So like when I’ve been in that
situation, go to like a third party and be like, does this sound, you know,
Yeah. Concerning to you.
Dave Etler: I don’t know. I just
wipe my nose on camera. Anyway. Those are my thoughts.
Emma Barr: I’m trying to remember
when you said the rolling. I think rolling ice thing. I think I’ve gotten in
trouble for rolling my eyes at somebody you in your eyes.
I know I did my eyebrows.
Holly Conger: I know can’t [00:52:00]
remember the example.
I think being able to give them like,
Quote, unquote negative feedback is also a tremendously undervalued skill.
Cause I think a lot of people just like won’t ever do it, which is a problem.
You know, cause if no one ever tells you anything you’re not doing well or
could do better than you never know what to work on.
Hopefully they deliver it in a constructive
way,
Emma Barr: to do the positive
sandwich thing, Like part something positive, then the constructive and then
more positive. So hopefully you leave them with a good, yeah.
Dave Etler: Like I really liked the
way you do X, but you killed that patient.
But good job on that form.
Holly Conger: Good job on the death
certificate.
Dave Etler: All right. That’s our
show. Albert Emma, Holly, Nicole. Thanks for being on the show today with me.
Thanks for putting up with my harebrained ideas, Holly, especially,
Holly Conger: I, I want people to be
happy too. I just thought I want patients to be safe. So I was pointing out
this, the concern.
Dave Etler: Whatever. And what kind
of, and what kind of games gallbladder would I be if I didn’t.
Thank you. Shortcodes for making us part
of your week. If you’re new here and you like what you heard today, subscribe
to our show. Wherever fine podcasts are available. Our editors. They’re AJ
Choudhry and Erik Bozart Alex Belzer, Al Alex Belzer is our marketing coordinator
show is made possible by a generous donation by Carver college of medicine,
student government, and ongoing support and the writing and humanities program.
Thank you. Writing in humanities
program. Loved those guys. Our music is by Dr. . Don’t let the bastards get you
down. Talk to you in one week.
Seizing The Moment: How COVID Could Change Healthcare, Ft. Shantanu Nundy, Md
Apr 01, 2021
COVID stressed healthcare but showed us a better future.
TL;DR
COVID revealed what’s broken in healthcare, and also offers a glimpse of how it can be fixed
Distributed, decentralized and digital isn’t about technology, but about putting patients at the center of healthcare.
This episode is sponsored by Panacea Financial, Member FDIC. Panacea is banking for physicians and medical students!
Shantanu Nundy, MD, is no stranger to healthcare policy and patient care. He’s a physician, entrepreneur and technologist “passionate about reinventing healthcare for all.” He’s a CMO for a company working to improve health outcomes, a primary care doc in the Washington, DC area, and a lecturer in health policy at the George Washington Milken Institute for Public Health and advisor to the World Bank Group on digital health and innovation.
So we were grateful that he offered to sit down with Dave, M4 Holly Conger, M1s AJ Chowdhury and Rick Gardner, and M3 Emma Barr to talk about his new book Care After COVID. He shows us a future that COVID has revealed as possible for healthcare if we have the will to make it happen: in which technology is a tool that puts patients at the center of everything physicians and systems do.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
Dave Etler: [00:00:00] Welcome Back
to the short coat, a podcast of the university of Iowa, Carver college of
medicine. I’m Dave Etler. That’s not important right now with me in the studio
recording and being live stream to our Facebook group. The Short Coat Student
Lounge, which you should join is the incomparable AJ Chowdhury over here is the
unparalleled Emma bar.
[00:00:55] The transcendent Holly Congar
is over here and in a class of his own it’s Rick Gardner what’s up homies. But
if you were thinking that that was all shortcodes well, that’s where you’d be
wrong. Joining us today is Dr. Shantanu.
a primary care physician technologist business leader. He’s got a new
book.
[00:01:15] Care after COVID what the
pandemic revealed is broken in healthcare and how to reinvent it out. This may
from McGraw-Hill education. Welcome to the show Dr. Nandi.
[00:01:24] Dr.
Nundy: [00:01:24] Thank you. I was, I was waiting to hear what
adjective I would get, but maybe I have to burn it.
[00:01:29] Dave
Etler: [00:01:29] Yeah, we just, either we just, we don’t just give
these adjectives.
[00:01:33] Dr.
Nundy: [00:01:33] You’re going to make me work for it.
[00:01:34]Dave
Etler: [00:01:34] Thank you for, thank you so much for hanging out
with us today. I really appreciate it.
[00:01:37]Today’s episode is sponsored
by panacea financial division of sauna bank member FDIC. Panacea is banking for
medical students and doctors. I’ll tell you more about them later in the show.
[00:01:46] So Dr. Nandi we took a look
at your book. I think you’re arguing in the book that COVID has given us an
opportunity to see a new future for patient care. Can you elaborate both on
this vision of decentralized digital and distributed?
[00:02:00] Care and how
[00:02:01] Dr.
Nundy: [00:02:01] it might work. There’s a lot to that. So I think
that most of us understand that this has been a once in a century pandemic.
Right. But I sort of optimistically look at it as a once in a century
opportunity to reinvent healthcare. And there’s really two reasons for that.
[00:02:17] Right. One is healthcare
chain has changed more in the past year than it has probably at any time in its
modern history, right. Like me as a patient doing my first virtual visits, I
did virtual physical therapy on my low back. Right. You know what I’m doing
with my own patients. And the second reason is because I think it’s really
magnified, not just for doctors, not just for patients, but for really every
stakeholder in our country for just how
deeply broken healthcare is.
[00:02:48] Right. Like, I think I don’t
have any conversations anymore where people don’t talk about health equity like
that. Wasn’t. Unfortunately the case a couple of years ago. Right. Or we’re
talking about mental health or so I just think that it’s because of both the
changes that have happened, but also sort of the understanding that is much more widespread
that this is really a special moment.
[00:03:07] So that’s really, the core
idea is it’s like kind of the classic, let’s not waste this crisis. Like we
have this moment now, what are we going to do with it?
[00:03:16] Dave
Etler: [00:03:16] So taking these ideas of decentralized digital and
distributed one at a time, I guess what is decentralized? What does that
mean in your vision?
[00:03:26] Dr.
Nundy: [00:03:26] Yeah. So first of all, let me explain sort of why
I think these three words matter, right? Cause I think that like, you know,
someone once told me words, create worlds, right. That the way we think about
things and conceptualize things really shift. Our minds and then shifts our
behaviors. Right. So I’ll ask you to maybe let’s start with distributed first.
[00:03:46] That’s the easiest one to
sort of grok, which is I’m sure a lot of us have heard like, Oh, carers become
virtualized. Care’s become virtualized. Right. But I always ask, like, has it,
I mean, yes, I’m seeing patients maybe through video or through phone. But
someone still have to stick a Q-tip in their nose to test code.
[00:04:04] Someone had to get blood
work. Someone had to take a medicine every single day. And so I think saying
that care has been virtualized is a little bit of a misnomer because it hasn’t
a component of it has, but overall ,
it’s just shifted. It shifted out of clinics and hospitals to being distributed
into the community and into people’s homes.
[00:04:26] And so that’s what the
concept of distributed is. It’s it’s care happens where health happens
digitally enabled. Right. So a lot of people talking about well, AI and EMR and
all that stuff. And I think to some degree, we think that those are the
technologies that are going to change care. But most of us have seen patients
know that the EMR doesn’t really change care.
[00:04:45] Right. It’s we went from a
paper form to, we scanned it onto a computer that costs us a hundred billion
dollars, but it didn’t really change the way we deliver care. So digitally
enabled is saying. Really the role of technology and data is to strengthen the
relationships between providers and patients, right?
[00:05:02] That you’re digitally
enabling that core interaction. And then do these centralized. It’s sort of a
counterpoint to the word value based care. Everyone’s saying value based care,
value based care population health. But to me, the key is you can’t just, ,
wake up one day. He said, Hey doctor, guess what?
[00:05:18] You’re now accountable for
that patient’s risk. Like you’re going to manage their risks, right. To do
that. You need resources and you need authority. And so decentralized. Power
has to shift you. Can’t just give doctors the bag and say, well, guess what,
you’re stuck with it. Now you have to give them the tools and the resources and
the authority, like simple things.
[00:05:37] Like, my nurses aren’t allowed to go to someone’s
house and draw their blood and most States in this country. And so if you want
to be able to shift care for people, we need to be, we need to get more than
just bearing the risks, which is what most of the value-based care is about. So
those are what the three, you know , terms are trying to conjure up.
[00:05:54] Dave
Etler: [00:05:54] Thanks
[00:05:56]friends. You’ve stunned them.
[00:06:01] Holly
Conger: [00:06:01] Oh, well, I just, I think we’re feeling like
we’re talking to an expert, so I’m not sure what I have to add to it, but I
know like, I’m an enforcer. So I
think as someone who’s about to join the
workforce, when I think about like
telemedicine and all of its opportunities, I think it’s a great chance to
improve healthcare in a lot of ways.
[00:06:16] But you know, the feasibility
of it is something that worries me. You know, I think there’s a lot of barriers
in place systemically and economically and blah, blah, blah, all those things.
And so I just wonder if it will actually be able to happen, you know, cause
there’s a lot of patients without digital access.
[00:06:32] And is it actually cheaper to
hire a massive amount of MTS nurses, paramedics, or whoever to go home, to
home, to home because right now, , all the IMTS and things that we have are
just doing emergency care. You know, like I can’t imagine the workforce needed,
if all of a sudden there’s that big shift you know, is a virtual visit going to
be reimbursed the same way for a physician, because if not, that’s quite the
motivation not to do it as a physician.
[00:06:55] You know? Like I just am
curious about overcoming a lot of the things in the way.
[00:07:00] Dr.
Nundy: [00:07:00] Yeah, no, I think all those are salient points.
And again, going back to why I prefer the word distributed, right? Because
virtual is a part of it that might work really well for me. It might work
really well for you, but for other communities that might be a community health
worker coming into your house.
[00:07:15] MTS, I think is a really cool
idea. Even just going back to house visits. So like actually house visits have
gone up dramatically over the past year. Right? Cause people are afraid to go
to a clinic and they’re rediscovering the value of that actually. One of the
stories that talk about the book that really did shift.
[00:07:33] My thinking was as you get
older, you’re an M four. You don’t have to deal with this yet, but as you get
old, like me and you got kids running around upstairs I decided to get life
insurance. And I actually had to get a physical exam in order to get life insurance.
And of course, like most people and non-compliant patients, like I didn’t get
one for years.
[00:07:50] So every time I’d fly it,
freak out that like something was kids. One of my friends had, you don’t have
to like go somewhere to get your blood work and physical exam they’ll actually
come to your house. And I said, Oh, okay. So, you know, I finally signed up
this nurse, came to my house, you know, and it was an amazing experience, like
actually on the table that I’m sitting on right now, how I got my first EKG
I’ve ever had.
[00:08:17]She drew my blood work. I got
to like pee in a cup, but in my own bathroom. But the experience was really
interesting cause I started putting my myself in her shoes. Right. Like, so
she’s driving to my neighborhood where she kind of sees all the tricycles in
the yard. Right. She’s walking up my sick stairs.
[00:08:33] She walks in and she sees my
prize possession on the right, which is my grand piano. And on the left, you
know, as you enter my house, you see like the cities that I’ve lived in and
like where I’m married, my wife and where I’ve traveled to. And what made me
realize is like, wow, like literally walking into my house, she understood more
about me than as a PCP.
[00:08:53] I understand about
unfortunately, so many of my patients. Right. And, and that was really
profound. And this was an insurance exam. Imagine if this was actually about
chronic conditions or actually around mental health or things like that. And
so. So, yes, I completely agree. I think thinking of of distributed as, as only
about virtual, I think is narrow.
[00:09:15]I think virtual is got a lot
of potential. And in many respects, actually the virtual we do is actually the
opposite of what we should do. So what happens today with virtual is we
actually make urgent visits virtual,
which is actually not a good idea. Yeah. That’s what
[00:09:28] Dave
Etler: [00:09:28] we were talking about.
[00:09:33] Dr.
Nundy: [00:09:33] It should be the primary care follow-up visits
that are virtual, because you’ve already met me. I’ve already diagnosed you and
done an exam and everything. But now I’m just being like, Hey, how’s the blood
pressure medicine going and okay. Are you taking it? Oh, you didn’t get it yet.
Okay. Let’s like, so anyways, so much to unpack there.
[00:09:49] Holly
Conger: [00:09:49] Yeah. I’m going into emergency medicine. So I
think that virtual urgent slash emergency care, it’s probably not a good idea,
especially because in this litigious society, like nobody wants to say, you’re
fine. Don’t go to the ER, don’t go to the urgent care. You know, like in my
experience, almost no one gets told that and they get sent in any way.
[00:10:06] And so then you just have to
pay for the virtual visit and the actual visit. But I think that there are a
lot of times like any clinic that I’ve been to where I don’t actually do much
of a physical exam that could have been a virtual visit, you know? So there’s
definitely room for
[00:10:18] Dr.
Nundy: [00:10:18] it. Yes, totally.
[00:10:21] Totally. Yeah. And then even
on the Homebase, like there’s a organization on, if you guys come across some
call ready responders, like they, to your point sent EMT to people’s houses,
they can do chest x-rays at home. They can do IB fluids at home. They can give
medications at home. Right. So it’s. It’s really interesting, you know, asking
the question, like, what is the right care setting?
[00:10:39] Like, it’s kind of like,
that’s the whole idea of distributed. We have to get sort of location agnostic,
you know, on some level, like, I think it’s right now, it’s just, it’s
synonymous with a hospital or a clinic. And I don’t know if that always makes
sense.
[00:10:53] Dave
Etler: [00:10:53] Yeah. And there are organizations, you know, like
I know the visiting nurse association
we’ll send people to your house for, care.
[00:10:59]I mean, as you say, there are
organizations that do this. It’s just that we don’t always think of it. When
the time comes. To do this. And maybe even providers , sometimes don’t even,
don’t even think of it, or they might not have the wherewithal depending on
where they are in the country or, or you know, if they’re rural versus urban
practice, I mean, there’s all kinds of factors there, but it’s not
unprecedented.
[00:11:19] It’s just perhaps under utilized and under funded, I guess,
[00:11:25] Dr.
Nundy: [00:11:25] probably. Yeah.
[00:11:28] Emma
Barr: [00:11:28] Kind of wondering if you have what your thoughts
are, if you have any specific thoughts on how this kind of distributed health
care works with medical education I’m an MP3. So I went through my core year
during the pandemic, having a lot of visits, turn into virtual visits and
televisits, and I feel like it impacted my education, but I’m wondering kind of
how you see that if we’re doing more distributed care, how can medical students
be involved in, you know, still get quality education?
[00:11:55] Dr.
Nundy: [00:11:55] Yeah, that’s a really good question. And wow.
Yeah, I’m sure you and I could talk for awhile about what he saw this year. It
, must be fascinating, but yeah, I mean, I think that at least my training
which was a couple of years ago, we did a pretty good job teaching people,
clinical medicine.
[00:12:13] We didn’t really teach them
to practice the medicine, if that makes sense. Right. And so w and what’s
interesting is that the places that are really good at teaching you clinical
medicine may or may not be the best places to learn the practices.
[00:12:25] Dave
Etler: [00:12:25] So maybe you should elaborate on the difference.
[00:12:28] Dr.
Nundy: [00:12:28] And by the way, that’s my own nomenclature.
[00:12:30] That’s not, you know,
[00:12:31] Dave
Etler: [00:12:31] I mean, yeah, because I’m. Not a doctor. I don’t,
I don’t know everything about medicine. We have listeners who are themselves,
not yet doctors.
[00:12:38] Dr.
Nundy: [00:12:38] So yeah, of course. Yeah. So what I mean by that
is clinical medicine is like, you know what in a textbook or something you’re
supposed to do.
[00:12:45] Right? So if somebody comes
in with chest pain, what are the questions to ask? What are the tests to order?
How do you interpret the test? Right? It’s like, The science part of medicine
versus the practice of medicine is, you know, how many minutes did you see a
patient for that has chest pain? And, you know how do you get them to tell you
the truth about whether they’re drinking or not?
[00:13:07] And how do you make sure that
you spend enough time with them, but also get your paperwork done and that you
get your coding right? And right. Like all those things. That’s what I kind of
need. It’s like the, between the difference. And I think what happens on both
sides actually in studies show, this is that if you look at practice variation,
meaning differences between me and you and other doctors or other nurses, most
of those differences, even 20, 30 years out, or a product of where we be
trained, which is fascinating.
[00:13:36] So for example, like I’ll use
this blood pressure medicine. And my
colleagues in my free clinic will order this blood pressure medicine. And if
you ask them. Why it’s not because like we read different papers or like we
went to different conferences or because like one of us is smarter than the
other it’s because I trained there and she trained there and that’s the
medicine that they use.
[00:13:56] Right. And so. My point in
this is that when it comes to the science and medicine, lots of places do a
great job when it comes to the practice of medicine and particularly
distributed care, these sort of newer forms of care, traditional academic
medical centers. Aren’t like, they’re the best that the science of medicine,
but there may not be the best of the practice of medicine, right?
[00:14:17] They have really long patient
wait times. And like, you know, they don’t doctors don’t spend it. Like the
experience is not that good, but the problem is because of that 30 year
overhang, those habits that we learn about how do you build trust, then? How do
you listen and how do you document efficiently?
[00:14:32] And where are you even see
patients at home or whatever, how soon you follow up all those habits, we’re
learning from kind of not the best places. And so, super long sort of responses to your, your
comment, but. I think what we need to do is in training is increasingly expose
our trainees to those places and do like away rotations at places that do
really good telemedicine based care, or
do really good home-based care or do really good population based care.
[00:15:03] And that’s going to mean for
many people that you have to leave your school or your residency and go to. The
real world where there’s truly places at the cutting edge of how to do that the
right way.
[00:15:14] Holly
Conger: [00:15:14] Yeah. I think depending on your residency
program, that is, or is not built in really well. I know for emergency
medicine, at least I will have several months where I’m at a private practice,
ER, you know, and so I will get to see like the non-academic version and I I’m
going to be at like a County hospital.
[00:15:30]And so I’ll get to see that
too. And so I think like depending on where you are and what specialty you go
into, some of them build that in and some of them don’t, which I think it’s a
great thing because how are you supposed to choose? I want to be an academic
physician versus I want to be a private practice physician, if you’ve never
seen it.
[00:15:45] Did you
[00:15:45] Dave
Etler: [00:15:45] make that choice when you were looking for
programs
[00:15:48] Holly
Conger: [00:15:48] would never have wanted to sign up where you only
get one flavor because you know, how do you, how do you know otherwise? And
like he mentioned, you know, Where you are really dictates how you practice a
lot of the time, I’ve even seen it as just an M four.
[00:16:01]And I think in Korea, one of
the most valuable things that started to grow is actually just my like clinical
experience, quote unquote, is where you start looking at a patient and
determining that sick or not sick. Like you start being like, I’m really
concerned about this person picking up on things and getting better at making
clinical decisions.
[00:16:17] I wonder if there’s many
studies on, if that still goes well, virtually,
you know, like, are you more likely to miss something or is a patient
less likely to be honest, virtually or in person? You know, I don’t know.
Either one could be better or worse. I just wonder how they compare.
[00:16:32] Dr.
Nundy: [00:16:32] Yeah. Yeah. Lots of questions. Yeah. It’s probably
[00:16:35] Holly
Conger: [00:16:35] some of you that we don’t have the research yet,
but you know, Oh, it’s interesting. Cause it’s like, wow. If my patient is like
three times less likely to tell me that they’re feeling suicidal, Via
telemedicine, then I’m not going to like that. You know, like I don’t want to
risk that or, you know, like whatever the thing may be, you know, that would be
something to look into.
[00:16:53] Dave
Etler: [00:16:53] You spoke about getting a window into people’s
lives that you might not otherwise get with with a more distributed definitely
valuable model, which is which I would, I guess not assume is the wrong word,
but I would wonder if you know, seeing somebody in their home would make them
more likely to talk about their world and the things that are really bothering
them.
[00:17:12] Dr.
Nundy: [00:17:12] And it
[00:17:12] Holly
Conger: [00:17:12] might be, you know, they might feel more
comfortable in, so maybe it would be even better for certain specialties.
[00:17:16]Dave
Etler: [00:17:16] Hard to know at this point, I think it’s funny
cause , we’ve had this ability for a long time. And it took COVID to get us to
start thinking about these things, which it makes total sense to me because, so
we get so stuck in our ways and , you
need you need something to shock you out of , your comfort zone.
[00:17:35] And I think that the most
fascinating thing that we learned out of COVID is that not only could we
change, but we could change really damn quickly when we had to adapting. So I
think that’s really interesting. I you know, one of the, one of the most
interesting things to me that came out of COVID was our, , influenza like
illness clinic that seems to appear.
[00:17:56] Overnight. Yeah. And then our
telemedicine treatment where we were treating people at home through visiting
nurses and visiting appointments and things like that, and blood and, and, and
monitoring of O two SATs and all this kind of stuff, which again, seemed to
happen overnight. And which was.
[00:18:16] Probably critical and keeping
our hospital from being overrun. So really neat to see that sort of thing
happen I wonder if it’ll last, . I hope
it will because I think it makes sense in a lot of ways.
[00:18:27] Dr.
Nundy: [00:18:27] Definitely. No, that, that is a really important
point.
[00:18:30] Not even just on virtual, but
it’s like, it’s like the three most important words I learned or the Ben it
maybe is yes, we can. It’s someone who has spent my whole career sort of
mucking around and trying to change healthcare. And I’m like, wow, that’s
complicated. It’s hard. It’ll take time. And it’s like, yes, we can now will
we?
[00:18:52] And do it. And, and part of,
I think, what policy makers, cause I get a chance to spend time with some
policy folks. I was on a couple of presidential campaigns and stuff is a lot of
them are looking at us and saying, wait, when we let safety net doctors text
their patients, like we didn’t have all these massive privacy violations that
doctors practice across state lines.
[00:19:12] Guess what? Like fraud,
didn’t just go up through the roof. Right? So I think part of this, I think the
reflection which we have to call it out, if we wanted to see happiness to say,
when you actually deregulate parts of healthcare, shit, doesn’t blow up.
Actually a lot of it gets better and it enables, this is the whole point of
decentralized, by the way, it’s this idea that let the front lines decide.
[00:19:34] AJ Chowdhury: [00:19:50]
so I worked as a scribe at a community practice when the pandemic first hit. So
for a couple of months, all my experiences were. Typing while the doctor was
sitting next to me in their office, talking to patients through a webcam.
[00:20:02] Now I was thinking, wow, this
will be really, really helpful for getting more and more patients in to the
clinic. But what about when you do go from one clinic to another, from one
health system to another, and you change EHR, is that decentralization of data
de-centralization of systems, will that hinder or help in that regard where you
can have records from one patient be available over Epic, but maybe not
[00:20:28] Dr.
Nundy: [00:20:28] over-serving yeah.
[00:20:30] Yeah, totally. I mean, first
of all, I’m, I’m usurping the term decentralized and decentralized means
specific things to specific people. I’m sort of specifically labeling it in a,
in a certain way. That’s different than how most people think of it. Right?
Cause like, so for example, like I think most people, when they look at COVID,
they say, well, the fact that every state can decide who’s eligible for the
vaccine, the fact that like.
[00:20:50] You know, testing was done by
different local departments of health was like a failure of decentralization.
I’m not talking about that decentralization. I mean, I think, but what you’re
talking about is really critical, which is as care gets more distributed, even
it’s there is a risk and the risk is that it gets more fragmented.
[00:21:07] Right? And that’s true today.
Like if I’m a patient, I can go to my primary care doctor. I could go to the
hospital. I could go to an urgent care center. I could call up a digital
solution. I could even go to Walgreens and Walmart and see a doc, right? Like
care’s already been fragmented like that, that cat is out of the bag.
[00:21:25] But as we move to a more
decentralized world where now, or distributed world, excuse me, where you can
actually have a home visit too. And you could have an ER person in your home giving
you IVs fluids, and you can write, maybe go to the barbershop and get your
blood pressure medicine. That’s only gonna increase the risk of fragmentation.
[00:21:42] And so sort of under
digitally enabled, I talk about this idea of connected, which is that it
creates a much, much greater need for connectivity. And I make the point that
connectivity is not just the way that most of the industry thinks about it
today, which is okay. Let’s connect EHR, which is critical.
[00:21:59] It’s also has to be true that
you have to connect. Care teams and processes, right? Because I mean, already
today in my EMR, I have more information than I could ever sift through. Right.
And so just the fact that I can have access even more information doesn’t mean
that when the patient walks in from clinic a to clinic B, that, you know, I’m
creating a connected experience, you know, but if that clinic called me, if we
had like a little handoff or other things like that, that plus the data
connectivity will create that experience.
[00:22:29] Because I talk about in the
book, how, like the, the question that patients dread more than any other
question in healthcare is what brings you in today? And the reason is right,
because they’re like, wait a second. I called your clinic. And I filled out a
form in the waiting room. Then I told your medical assistant, then I told your
nurse and baby, I even told the doctor who told me to come to you because
you’re the specialist.
[00:22:51] And I walked in and the first
thing you asked me is. I didn’t. So like, what brings you in today?
[00:22:58] Holly
Conger: [00:22:58] Kind of damages trust. Cause a lot of patients
look at you, like, why am I supposed to trust you with my care? If you know,
I’ve told a hundred people this and somehow you guys still don’t know.
[00:23:07] And sometimes it’s because
there’s that, you know, communication breakdown where you actually just don’t
know. But sometimes it’s just, everybody wants to ask because sometimes
patients stories change or they say it in a different way and they just want to
make sure they got it from the horse’s mouth.
[00:23:20] You have a good
[00:23:21] Dave
Etler: [00:23:21] reason for this, but the patients don’t know,
[00:23:26] Holly
Conger: [00:23:26] but I’ve been a patient too, you know, and that’s
super frustrating when it’s like, I’ve told like six people in the last 10
minutes. What I want and what I’m here, why I’m here? Like, why can’t you just
like communicate?
[00:23:35] Dave
Etler: [00:23:35] This is the thing I always think of, like calling,
calling your gas company.
[00:23:39] And then, you know, the first
thing they ask you that the phone tree asks you to input your account number,
and then you get, and then you talk to the live person. They’re like, okay,
tell me your account number.
[00:23:51] Dr.
Nundy: [00:23:51] But
[00:23:53] Holly
Conger: [00:23:53] I think the frustrating thing about the EMR in
general is if it’s not written down in the EMR, like doesn’t exist. And so
like, if you get care from multiple places that are not just under the
university umbrella or whatever umbrella, it’s like really hard to like get
documents and records and everybody on the same page.
[00:24:08]But I don’t know if. We would
all move to like, you know, the Epic monopoly and they just take over the world
and they’re the only EMR maybe that would fix it. But yeah, but you know
[00:24:17] Dave
Etler: [00:24:17] what I mean? It’s 20, 21. Yeah. You know, like
data is data. The key is in my fevered non-expert imagination. The key is
making it readable from one system to another.
[00:24:29] I mean, we have ways to do
this, you know, whether you’re talking about, , XML or , markup languages,
whatever, we can do this in computers.
It’s just that we are really bad at it right now.
[00:24:40] Holly
Conger: [00:24:40] Yeah. Yeah. I think like the EMR overhead is also
like kind of killing private practices a lot of the time, which is probably a
separate argument, but that overhead is just so massive that like small
businesses, quote, unquote, like just make it very hard for them to exist at
all, which is a different argument.
[00:24:55] But, you know, it’s just, I
don’t know if that would get better if we’re trying to get like small town,
primary care physicians to be able to serve a larger reason region because it’s
virtual, you know, like how are they going to support, you know, blah, blah,
blah. There’s just lots of questions that this whole telemedicine thing.
[00:25:08] Dave
Etler: [00:25:08] Well, and I think, I think sometimes of you know,
you’re talking about data from the EMR.
And then there are all these sort of ,
newfangled devices that people are able to get now, like for instance, you
know, the Apple watch where you’ve got,
a device that can read your heart rate,
it can get your blood pressure.
[00:25:25] , they’ve even begun to experiment with
glucose monitoring all this kind of stuff, and you can log it and you can keep
track of it and you can give it to your doctor and all this kind of stuff. And sometimes I
read articles that are like, this is it.
[00:25:37] This is a boon to healthcare.
And then I think, yeah, but I know doctors, it’s not that they don’t want that.
It’s just that the data becomes overwhelming at some point. How do you sift through all that data for
each patient? And you know, I can think of ways around this, like machine
learning and all that kind of stuff, but.
[00:25:55] IBM is selling Watson. I
don’t really know that that has come to its fruition yet
[00:26:00] Dr.
Nundy: [00:26:00] either.
[00:26:04] I think I’ll add that it has
to, we have to start with the patient and you have to, you have to go to the
care model and then the data and the technology has to support it. Right? So
like, let me give, like one of the examples that talk about in the book, right?
My mom has had type two diabetes for 25 years, right.
[00:26:21] And for 25 years, what does
that mean? That means that she goes to the doctor in 10 minutes. He tells her a
bunch of stuff and tells her to like eat healthy. And it says, great. Then she
goes home and for a week she does a decent job. Maybe he calls her a week later
with her lab results. And then it’s radio silence for six months.
[00:26:38] And then she goes in again
and does the same thing. And it’s been 25 years of that. And if you think about
the connectivity, let’s imagine that, you know, she had access to all that data
from her clinic visit on her mobile phone. Awesome. Let’s imagine that her
doctor, every time she saw him every six months, He had a synopsis of all her blood
sugar readings, but she hadn’t really looked at this month.
[00:27:01] Let’s imagine that when she
goes to an endocrinologist, all the data pops up in a second. Well guess what?
She would still be struggling with her diabetes because the . Care model of
seeing someone every six months and hoping that they’re going to change their
behaviors, doesn’t work. Contrast that to what happened to my mom, which is in
June, I’m super proud of her.
[00:27:20] She joined a program around
diabetes reversal. Where she was given a, a coach that you can interact with 24
seven. She was given a box that showed up in the mail that had a glucometer and
in a ketone meter and a bunch of recipes. She was connected to my family’s from
India, another Indian patient who lived in Chicago, who had learned a bunch of
recipes that work really well with Indian food.
[00:27:44] And she had an
endocrinologist through that same program. And within two weeks, she went from
25 units of insulin to 15. And within a month she was off insulin and it’s been
six or seven months. My moms. He hasn’t taken a single shot insulin. Wow. That
is amazing. And, and by the way hundreds of thousands of patients have done
that now and most talk about medical education.
[00:28:08] Most people that graduate from
med school don’t know that you can reverse diabetes. But that’s a whole nother
conversation, but my point is that that is how we need to think about solving
these problems, right? Because otherwise healthcare becomes this sort of very
insular world with like, Oh, well, hospitals are going to connect data to make
it easier for doctors to do it.
[00:28:25] I’m like, eh, the job of
health reform isn’t to make, I’m sorry to say doctors, licensure, hospitals,
Izz, or helper, but our job is to help patients. So how is that connectivity
going to help the pain? Now it might, but we got to think about an end to end
care model that solves their problem, which is my mom.
[00:28:44] Doesn’t like taking insulin.
She wants to get the fuck off of it. If you can, what is the care model
required to do that? And then how does technology and data scale and enable
that is the question. And I think, we
only have a finite amount of resources. You know, Joe Biden, they, they have a
hundred dollars to spend on healthcare and for every dollar we spend doing
something.
[00:29:04] That perpetuates a broken
care model is a dollar we’re not spending on building new care models that
actually solve problems for patients. And so that, that’s part of the message
I’m trying to give is like, yes. AI. Yes. Connected, I guess. Yes, yes, yes,
yes. What about what patients need and want?
[00:29:20] Dave
Etler: [00:29:20] This is, yeah, I was thinking about, how healthcare, just how the physical plant
of healthcare is set up.
[00:29:27] You know, it’s, it’s all
about the, the, the convenience for the system, the convenience for the doctors
and the nurses and the PAs and all those people
to. Have the patient come to the hospital and have the patient , they’re present in that environment. But ,
it’s definitely not for the patient.
[00:29:44]So I guess that’s kind of a
similar idea.
[00:29:47] Dr.
Nundy: [00:29:47] I mean, the most classic visceral example is when we help deliver babies, right? You
probably all know about this, but , why are women in stirrups and lying on
their backs during delivery? The opposite of what you would want to do, which
is let gravity do a job delivered babies in Uganda.
[00:30:03] It’s completely different.
Yeah, we do that because it’s like better for the doctors back and they can see
it. They can sit in their stool and like, right. Just like the
[00:30:13] Dave
Etler: [00:30:13] heart rate, the fetal heart rate monitor. Thing
which didn’t work out all that well for my wife. I remember but you know, it’s
there to collect data and send it to the nurses station.
[00:30:23] All it couldn’t do. It didn’t
work. It was just annoying to my wife.
[00:30:30] Holly
Conger: [00:30:30] Yeah. There’s some study that those heart rate monitors don’t actually
change outcomes at all because yeah. And so like, there’s plenty of that in
healthcare, but I think our whole system, like it’s broken because it’s
designed to be reactive instead of preventative, which is like the main problem
with our system.
[00:30:45] And, you know, I think a lot
of it comes back to, you know, funding, the preventative things, cause putting
every person on time with type two diabetes on this program, like your grandma
would be wonderful. And I think we would make a lot of difference and avoid a
lot of like the long-term sequela of untreated diabetes.
[00:31:01]If we could do that, but it’s
just like insurance companies tend to only want to pay for like. Procedures and
medications and doctor’s visits, you know? So I was just like, I think
restructuring that is our biggest barrier. Same with telemedicine is I’d be
curious as do we have insurance companies like treated that like a normal
visit, you know, like, do they
[00:31:18] Dr.
Nundy: [00:31:18] recognize that?
[00:31:19] I mean, they just it’s
temporary still, but they did make that change where they are reimbursed for
telemedicine that was changed during the pandemic, which has been a huge
enabler. I will, I will though half agree with what you said. So it’s
absolutely true that we need policy to change. Like there’s no question about
that.
[00:31:37] Right. And it’s true that
there’s a lot that we can do. As doctors and med students and individuals.
Right. I feel like there’s a little bit of a learned helplessness, like good
example, you know, the fact that we’re doing drive-through testing. Now we, as
my clinic, we could have been doing this for, for years for a lot of things.
[00:31:56] Yeah. I mean, the idea of
putting someone during flu season in a crowded waiting room waiting for 30, we
could just have someone standing outside spa and people’s no, we could have
done that, but we just, we didn’t lead with that. Like I now prescribe my
patients, you know free mindfulness, you know, apps that they can get.
[00:32:13]Even my mom’s, example’s an
interesting one, because if you look at how much she’s been paying out of
pocket, For her insulin and test strips and stuff like that, versus how much
she’s spending on this service. It’s actually almost on par. It’s slightly more
that she’s paying for this service which obviously for some patients would be a
deal breaker, but I think sometimes
we’re like, Oh, well, let’s wait for policy to change. It’s like, nah, we can
do this. There’s guard rails that limit us, but there is way more we can and
should do for our patients.
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[00:34:13] Dr.
Nundy: [00:34:13] Does
[00:34:14] Holly
Conger: [00:34:14] insurance cover any of your mom’s program for the
diabetes that’s helping? Does it cover
[00:34:18] Dr.
Nundy: [00:34:18] anything?
[00:34:19] It is. It is. They are. So
what they did, what they did was because through the program, some of the test
strips and things come with like her care package every month, they reimbursed
that part.
[00:34:31] Holly
Conger: [00:34:31] Okay. But they’re not covering the like
additional services, like the
[00:34:34] Dr.
Nundy: [00:34:34] coaching, but again, compared to the copays that
she was, you know, the $25 every time she saw an endocrine, like if you
actually add it all up, it’s almost the same amount.
[00:34:44] That she would have paid it
slightly more like on the order of 50 more dollars a year. So it’s pretty
close. And then you can think over time about like, well, what if this avoided
an ER, visit and stuff, which, you know, there was like, you know, another
copay for that and stuff like, it may actually be, you know, cost savings for
her, but it’s clearly a barrier.
[00:35:03]You know, but, but there’s
also room, I think more room than we think patients paid for a lot of stuff out
of pocket, a lot,
[00:35:12] Holly
Conger: [00:35:12] like one hospitalization for a heart attack or a
kidney, something or anything, you know, it would be worth it to the insurance
company. Cause that is so expensive versus paying for this life coach for.
[00:35:22] Or this, whatever the name is
diabetes for like 10 years. Yeah.
[00:35:30] Rick
Gardner: [00:35:30] Like in this model and you were saying, , like
with this example, this anecdote of viewer mother and being able to, if we
could like mainstream or inform a, the broader medical community of this, maybe
we could start getting people on board with this.
[00:35:43] And that’s the shift having
that information and people decide, well, if it’s going to be equally costs you
know, the cost is going to be the same, but it’s going to be more efficacious.
Maybe we start doing this and that’s where it catches on as a paradigm shift.
How do you think that would be implemented or.
[00:35:59] What do you think would be
the catalyst for that? Because I mean, I agree it, preventative care is always
going to be better. And we should be less reactive.
[00:36:07] Dave
Etler: [00:36:07] Well, first of all, you got to get all the old
physicians to die.
[00:36:11] Dr.
Nundy: [00:36:11] I’m sorry. Retired.
[00:36:14] Dave
Etler: [00:36:14] No, I’m kidding. But you know, there’s,
[00:36:16] Dr.
Nundy: [00:36:16] there’s inertia. Yeah, no, it’s a great, it’s a
great question.
[00:36:19] I don’t know if I have a
brilliant answer for that, other than like, this is why I wrote this book.
Right. Like, I think that, like, like I said, if you ask most of your
classmates graduating from med school the day how ask them is diabetes of
reversible disease? What percent do you think will say yes.
[00:36:34] Type
[00:36:34] Holly
Conger: [00:36:34] one or type two
[00:36:39] Dr.
Nundy: [00:36:39] I think your classmates, I’m guessing less than
10% of them will think it is maybe less than five, maybe less than 1%. And so,
and, and that, that’s, that’s another thing we don’t talk about. Right? So in
healthcare, right? It’s the classic, it takes 17 years for new clinical
guidelines to make it a mainstream clinical practice and were doctors like, Oh
my God, I can’t believe those other doctors.
[00:36:58] Like, nah, it’s all of us.
Right. And, I talk about in the book, \ it’s like 17 years ago, the iPhone
didn’t exist and we went to blockbuster to watch movies. And that’s what it’s
like when you walk into a healthcare clinic today in 2021, you’re getting 2004
care. So
[00:37:14] AJ
Chowdhury: [00:37:14] speaking of inertia I want to ask since you’ve
started to really look into how things have changed with virtual care, since
the pandemic began.
[00:37:24]So my aunts are radiologists
and whenever anyone asks, if AI is going to replace her, she always responds
with no, cause you can’t Sue a computer. What has the legislative landscape
will look like since tele-health started getting more insurance coverage and
now there’s more actual legislative policies in place to support
[00:37:42] Dr.
Nundy: [00:37:42] it.
[00:37:42]So is your question more
specifically on like, what’s happened with malpractice around it or started?
What, what aspect of it are you referring to specifically,
[00:37:49]AJ
Chowdhury: [00:37:49] Big picture view of the landscape surrounding
policy and virtual care. Is it moving in a direction that’s better for the
patient right now?
[00:37:57] Or is it still early in
[00:37:59] Dr.
Nundy: [00:37:59] the process? Got it. Got it. Great. Great question.
So first let me tell you what the current state is, and I’ll tell you my
opinion of it. So the current state is I think there’s broad consensus on sort
of both sides of the aisle that con you know, compared to pre pandemic,
telemedicine will be reimbursed.
[00:38:15] Going forward at scale. So
like no more requirements, like you have to have seen them in person first and
then afterward it can be virtual and no, like what only in places that are
medically underserved or only for certain spent, like, I think. The broad
consensus is that this is, this is a valuable modality to practice medicine.
[00:38:34] There’s some edge cases that
they’re going to figure out, but I think that’s kind of the current state and
we’re just waiting for all that stuff to get finalized. My opinion though, is
that I have a lot of concerns about how exactly we’re going to do that. So for
example, one of the debates right now is like, well, audio only telemedicine
can get reimbursed just the same as video based and just the same as an
in-person visit.
[00:38:58] Like for some of the reasons
we discussed earlier on urgent care and like sick, not sick, like that’s,
doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. The other thing is that there’s a risk that
telemedicine becomes really transactional, right? Where instead of a proper
clinic visit where you like get to know them and all that stuff, that was just
like, okay, well, what do you have low back pain.
[00:39:15] Okay. Here’s some ibuprofen,
right? And unless we put in place the right framework, whether it’s quality
measures or value based care or whatever, I think what’s going to happen is
you’re going to sort of. Cater to the lowest common denominator and you’re
going to have all these clinics and all these private companies and stuff really
just, you know, per, you know, provide frankly low quality care over a virtual
telemedicine type service.
[00:39:40] And so I, I think to me,
that’s the biggest policy risk is that we’re not really using it to re-imagine
that care. It’s not really like the, my mom example, it’s like worse than an
urgent care type of example becomes like, you know, as like from a
reimbursement perspective, it’s gets reimbursed the same as if you spent 30
minutes on a video, really getting to know them and like taking a tour of their
house and like building a trusting relationship.
[00:40:06] Each of those are going to
get paid equally the same, and so guess what’s going to happen. And so there’s
going to be a missed opportunity, I think to not structure the legislation in
the right way. You get to what we all want.
[00:40:16] AJ
Chowdhury: [00:40:16] It seems like right now there’s mostly
bandages being put in order to treat a symptom, but not addressing the actual
underlying cause of what is a, essentially a broken healthcare system.
[00:40:29] Dr.
Nundy: [00:40:29] Yes. It gets
[00:40:30] Rick
Gardner: [00:40:30] broken at both a like a small scale individual
personnel, personal based matter as well as the grand scheme of things is also
broken fractured from top to bottom. When you were talking to like the words
that came to my mind were like healthcare, industrial complex. We’re going to
move to this just.
[00:40:46] Like massive rollout of just
proficiency with no excellence in the care or no quality.
[00:40:53] Dave
Etler: [00:40:53] Yeah. That was one of my concerns as well in
thinking about all this, as, you know, the temptation will be just like with
the EMR, a desire to make things more efficient, which, and, and more, you
know, sort of cost effective, which I’m not sure that those things always
result in good health.
[00:41:12] Holly
Conger: [00:41:12] I mean, that system is kind of already still in
place now, you know, like people are paid based on how many number of patients
do you see a day, which is quite the driver for a lot of doctors to see 50
patients in a day, 60 patients in a day. And it’s like, if you divide up the
physical time, that means you’re spending almost no time with each patient, you
know, and that’s even an in-person visit.
[00:41:31] So that system is already
kind of. There. And so I only imagine it being worse. If you could just get
away with a five minute phone call, you know so unfortunately I think that’s a
problem we already have. And it’s not unique to the telemedicine idea, but it’s
interesting to me that the insurance companies in the billing were just so easy
to adopt reimbursing the virtual visits, because they’re so strict about, like,
if you want to be billed for this level of patient, you need like a 10 point
review of systems.
[00:41:59] You need at least five
systems on your physical exam, blah, blah, blah. I’m like all that just
vanished, which I think is kind of interesting.
[00:42:07] Dave
Etler: [00:42:07] Well, like we’ve been saying all along, Suddenly,
we surprised ourselves by how many things were not necessarily necessary. Yeah.
[00:42:14] Rick
Gardner: [00:42:14] And it’s funny that we could even like, know
that and like have that understanding beforehand, but we still don’t want to
change because we’re like either that stubborn or just that stuck in the rut.
[00:42:27] Dave
Etler: [00:42:27] I don’t think , many people suspected that those
things weren’t necessary, but yeah,
[00:42:31] Rick
Gardner: [00:42:31] I would use the example just from like a
personal anecdote, like being in the hospital and someone who has a history of
Marissa and we still have to put on gowns. But they don’t have an active
infection.
[00:42:41] That was something that was
happened, but because of PPE, shortages and logistics would, that was something
that was early on taken out in this, like, okay, now we can go in without
gowns. They don’t have an inactive infection. I, I’m not, well-versed in the
science. I’ll preface with that, but it’s like, that’s something that I feel
like could have been done earlier, but I guess there was a need to, and it’s
surprising that we just didn’t do it earlier.
[00:43:00] Like logistically, I mean,
cost effectiveness is still there. And money drives a lot of medicine and a lot
of just life in general and especially politics, you know?
[00:43:10] Dr.
Nundy: [00:43:10] So yeah, a big area we didn’t talk about, which
relates exactly to that is, is. I’m also a really big believer that patients
should be allowed to do a lot of stuff themselves.
[00:43:18] Right? So like early
independent, the whole reason I wrote this book is because early and pandemic,
I wrote a piece that people should just be able to test themselves. And it was
crazy to see the response to that. Like I was like in rolling stone magazine,
like, it was crazy. My wife’s like who the hell?
[00:43:33] Like, but when I talk to
policymakers, like I was in USA today, and this was like, mind boggling is one
physician said, how can patients test themselves? Because how can they
interpret the result? It has to be interpreted by a physician. Who’s known them
for many years to interpret a COVID.
[00:43:55] When was the last time you
practiced? Like how many of us. No, our patients for many years, like
medicine’s become unfortunately for so many people, so transactional. But then
like you said, out of necessity, , we are letting patients test themselves now,
right? Like, like door dash delivered to your house and CVS, you can have a
little cartridge and test yourself, but been doing this for
[00:44:16] Dave
Etler: [00:44:16] years with pregnancy tests.
[00:44:17] I mean, it’s
[00:44:18] Dr.
Nundy: [00:44:18] exactly like,
[00:44:20] Dave
Etler: [00:44:20] but you don’t need a doctor to, I mean, yes, you
might need medical guidance, medical guidance,
[00:44:26] Dr.
Nundy: [00:44:26] but a hundred percent. So diabetes is a great
example. Pregnancy diabetes. If you have diabetes, you can test yourself for
your sugar. Right. But you can’t diagnose yourself with diabetes with the same
test.
[00:44:39]And that’s like, you know, and
so like, again, if somebody is sitting there saying, I want to get screened for
diabetes, because I’m just worried about it. It’s a whole rigamarole it’s I
have to have insurance. I have to look up who’s available. I have to find a
doctor, which by the way in America is about a three week, wait on average,
then I got to take a half day, all this stuff just to test themselves for, for whether
or not to teach themselves whether or not they have a risk or have diabetes.
[00:45:04] And so it’s, it gets to your
point. It’s like, I think it’s, it’s forced us to question things that at least
I’ve been questioning for years. And now the question is like, Yeah. Are we
going to revert? And then for a bunch of other stuff that doesn’t make sense,
that’s not related to COVID. I mean, most healthcare that’s changed.
[00:45:19] The vascular is like acute
COVID, upper or viral respiratory stuff, but can we take that same sort of
fresh thinking and apply it to all parts of healthcare and say like, do women
really need, who’ve been on an oral contraceptive for 10 years, really need a
refill from me. Oh my God,
[00:45:40] Dave
Etler: [00:45:40] this is the exact thing that I was thinking about
was, you know, like I’ve been on this medication for 20 years and yet I still
have to you know, get that prescription reauthorized every single year.
[00:45:52] And I have to do it in person
with my physician, which I understand part of it is to just get me there so
that he can actually do a well person physical but Oh yeah,
[00:46:01] Dr.
Nundy: [00:46:01] every year I’m like so many people, like maybe you
have a job that allows you to make it, you have held, but imagine for people
who can do that.
[00:46:09] And so then we’re like, Oh,
they’re not compliant. They fell off their medications. They’re just like,
well, they’re alternative. Isn’t just an annoyance. Their alternative is
actually no care. Yeah, right. And so again, it’s like, are we going to
question these things and are we going to change things? Are we just going to
let it all go?
[00:46:25] And that’s, that’s part of
what I mean by decentralized is putting power resources and, and, and
responsibility onto frontline teams and to patients like patients can do a lot
more than we give them credit for.
[00:46:38] Rick
Gardner: [00:46:38] I really liked even. So you made a reference to
another book you had written and I’m like . Working with my dad to like, try to
make sure he’s a healthy individual and you wrote a book and I, I forgive me.
[00:46:47] I can’t remember the name of
it. But essentially like here’s a guide for like every, I think it was like
decade of life and what you need to do. And I think that education, because I
think we’ve talked about previously medical education and health education
within America has failed. So people don’t know how to take care of themselves.
[00:47:02] And so having a book like
that and, and information of how to take care of yourselves and giving at least
power to the patient and the person to make actionable steps towards their own
health is,
[00:47:13] Dr.
Nundy: [00:47:13] is correct. Yeah. Yeah. And that’s, you know, I
want to end on a, on a sort of a positive note, but I think that’s some of the
real revolution that’s happened.
[00:47:20] Right? Like I think they
think about patients they’ve realized that they can actually prevent the flu,
like who they touch, how close they stand. Right. You’ve had, we don’t know the
numbers, but I have had countless patients by their first blood pressure cough.
Use a pulse oximeter for the first time, right.
[00:47:37] At home, like find where to
get vaccines themselves, find where to get tested. They know what a sensitivity
and specificity is like. They’re reading about every single day. Now through
social, like I think there’s been, you know, we’ve been wanting patients to
take more control, but this, this has created a massive cultural shift that I
don’t think we fully understand and policies can change, but I think culture
shift, like you remembering, , and sort of the impact of you finding your own
test, your own vaccine, you know, managing your own refills.
[00:48:09] Like I think that is going to
sustain for a long time. And I think it’s going to create enormous
opportunities to improve
[00:48:17] Dave
Etler: [00:48:17] health care. Yeah. it sort of reminds me of the
fact that , the other day I was marveling that I a have not gotten a cold
this winter and B despite the fact that
I’m not supposed to get a flu shot.
[00:48:29]I haven’t for the first time
gotten the flu in a while and you know, all that is because I learned to wear a
mask. And, you know, also was home a
lot, but I keep thinking, I had like next year, am I going to, am I going to
wear a mask? When I ride the bus to work? Am I going to wear a mask? Like you
made
[00:48:46] Rick
Gardner: [00:48:46] a point in your book that like you compared it
to nine 11 in that there is a before and an after, that’s something that I’ve
said.
[00:48:54], I think we have faced a
point of no return that things just cannot go back to where they are. Like the
example with the mask. I think we will see more masks. Our generation of individuals will they’re in like commuting
to work using mass transportation, or even
out in the restaurants and such a mask will be more visible.
[00:49:11]Which is something that we
haven’t seen in America. And I think other things within healthcare politics
socio-economics what, may have you I think that’s a huge thing as we have
entered into a new era of
[00:49:21] Dr.
Nundy: [00:49:21] life. I wonder if the next normal, yeah, totally
[00:49:28] Dave
Etler: [00:49:28] speaking of the post COVID era do you have a
listener question?
[00:49:31]Justin would like to know.
Yeah. Living in a post COVID 19 era, do you believe that there will be bigger
push for developing technologies? And his example is , remote, robotic surgery,
more prevalent in the healthcare setting. That’s a, that’s like a, that’s like
a
[00:49:47] Holly
Conger: [00:49:47] big, that’s a big, that’s a big,
[00:49:50] Dr.
Nundy: [00:49:50] yeah.
[00:49:51] Yeah. I think absolutely. I mean, I think that as
care moves out of facilities into clinics and then into homes and to
communities, that’s going to require a whole shift in technologies. Right? Part
of it is taking existing technologies and making it actually consumer friendly,
right?
[00:50:08] Like if you’ve ever operated
like an event or like even trying to figure out how an IV pump works, like once we start delivering that at home
and patients are doing it themselves, it’s gonna right now, basically the
technologies that are built are like the ones that get the biggest discounts
and sort of cost plus pricing.
[00:50:25] It’s going to shift towards
ones that are actually functionally useful. And those that’s going to be a
whole dimension. And so I think that that is going to take existing
technologies to do that. And then I think it’s going to drive a whole bunch of
new technologies. Like one of the like backend ones that I think is gonna be
huge is how do you manage and to end supply logistics, which is not that sexy,
but when you’re in a hospital and someone orders that antibiotics, it’s pretty
easy to like, get it up to the floor.
[00:50:50] Imagine if you’re being
hospitalized at home, how do you get someone that’s that antibiotic, or if you
are getting oxygen at home and suddenly the tank runs out. So how do you manage
that? That’s going to require a whole new set of new technologies. I think
there’s going to be a lot of delivery technologies.
[00:51:05] Obviously drones are
increasingly more common. And I think you’re right. I think we’re going to
start to see procedures as well start to happen in homes and communities. So I
think it’s a really, really interesting time.
[00:51:16] Holly
Conger: [00:51:16] Hi, brain surgeries are a little further out just
cause like, you know, with robotic surgery and something
[00:51:28] Dr.
Nundy: [00:51:28] into your house.
[00:51:29] Holly
Conger: [00:51:29] I mean, it’s more just like, you know, robotic
surgery is great until something goes wrong. Like the machine breaks, you hit
something and need to convert to open surgery. If the surgeon is not there.
Yeah.
[00:51:40] Dr.
Nundy: [00:51:40] Yeah. Yeah. Although again, I think, you know, the
play, my sort of like engineering nerd counter to that is like, I think we
don’t often think about the counterfactual.
[00:51:50] Like how often do surgeons
make mistakes? You know, we shouldn’t be operating anymore. And, and then the
other one is disparities. How many people live in a place that don’t have any
surgery at all? Like up in Alaska and certainly all the places around the world
I’ve worked when I was at the world bank.
[00:52:05] So you’re right. But I think
this is the point of distributed. We have to think about each local context and
think what is the best model starting patient first? And, you know, we may
surprise ourselves. Like, it’s like when the first autonomous car crash, I was
like, Oh, the car crashed. Oh my God. It’s like every day.
[00:52:25] Right?
[00:52:26] Dave
Etler: [00:52:26] So it’s the same, it’s the same concept with the
vaccines, you know, every time there’s a vaccine. You know, adverse reaction,
that’s very serious. It ends up in the news. And so we end up thinking more
about that than the fact that the vaccines are actually, you know,
[00:52:38] Dr.
Nundy: [00:52:38] and
[00:52:38] Holly
Conger: [00:52:38] I think it’s like, it’s all about responsibility
is like, that’s the holdup is who’s responsible.
[00:52:43] If the telehealth visit, you
think it’s fine. And then the patient dies from something you missed. Who’s
responsible if the remote surgery goes wrong and nobody’s there to fix it, you
know, like a lot of questions, it’s all about the responsibility reactive.
Right? What did you as part of it, which is unfortunate, but that’s just like
what I think.
[00:52:59] We’ll probably be in the way.
[00:53:01] Dave
Etler: [00:53:01] So I guess
my question to you doctor, before we go is you know, we’ve talked about
whether doctors are ready for it.
[00:53:08] We’ve talked about whether
the system is ready for it, or the patients ready for this. Are they clamoring
for this or do they even know what’s possible?
[00:53:16] Dr.
Nundy: [00:53:16] Yeah, I mean, I, I think so. I think that’s that
cultural shift, right? That I think that. People that have had their first
virtual visits, you know, have for their first home visits, you know, that
have, you know, found their own vaccines, found their own tests.
[00:53:32] I think that they are
realizing that a, the healthcare system it’s magnified how bad it really is
and, B) it’s shown them what’s actually possible. And I think that’s unleashed
something that I think will be a mega trend over the next several years. And
one that I’m super excited about. Look
[00:53:51] Dave
Etler: [00:53:51] forward to seeing
how this all shakes out, loved the book.
[00:53:53] Thank you so much for sharing
your ideas and your book with us. Care after COVID. Where can listeners find
out
[00:53:59] Dr.
Nundy: [00:53:59] more? Yeah, so the book’s coming out on May 4th apparently,
but he can already pre-order it on your favorite online store. And and I also
have a little website care after covid.org, or I’m going to a lot of the
additional pieces that I write or conversations that I have we’ll, we’ll kind
of be up there.
[00:54:16] And so, yeah, I would love to
build community around this and just this overall change. I mean, I think, I
really think it’s like that once in a century opportunity. And I think that the
folks that are listening, you guys have as big a role in it or bigger than I
do, given that I got a few less years ahead of me, but you know, like it’s all
it’s on us.
[00:54:36] This is our moment. Well,
[00:54:38] Dave
Etler: [00:54:38] thank you so much. That’s our show.
[00:54:41] Dr.
Nundy: [00:54:41] Emily, Emily. Jesus,
[00:54:46] Emma
Barr: [00:54:46] take me
[00:54:46] Holly
Conger: [00:54:46] a minute.
[00:54:48] Dr.
Nundy: [00:54:48] I
[00:54:48] Dave
Etler: [00:54:48] told you
[00:54:50] Rick
Gardner: [00:54:50] that was in assigned seats.
[00:54:54] Dave
Etler: [00:54:54] Hey Jay, Emma, Holly, Rick. Thanks for being on
the show with me today. I’m happy to be
[00:54:59] Holly
Conger: [00:54:59] here.
[00:55:00] Dave
Etler: [00:55:00] And what kind of Mexico intestinal fistula would I
be if I didn’t. Thank you. Shortcuts for making us a part of your week. If
you’re new here and you like what you heard today, subscribe to our show.
[00:55:09] Wherever fine podcasts are
available. Our editors are AIG Choudhry and Eric Bozart and Alex Belzer is our
marketing coordinator. The show is made possible by a generous donation by
Carver college of medicine, student government. And ongoing support from the
writing and humanities program. Our music is by Dr.
[00:55:24] Fox and atmosphere. Talk to
you in one week.
This week’s sponsor, Panacea Financial (Member FDIC) is giving away $500 to five students participating in the 2021 Match. Check it out!
Match Week is huge for senior medical students. It’s the week they find out if they will continue their training (yikes!), and where in the country they will go to complete it…and this year’s match was even more-than-usually anxiety provoking due to COVID.
Were our fears–of large numbers of unmatched applicants, programs with many unfilled positions, and students unfairly penalized by virtual interviews–realized? We try to figure it out with the stats available to us just an hour before recording.
This Week in Medical News
Some Grand Rapids, Michigan residents were very bad on Instagram. Hey, future and current students–keep other peoples resected organs off social media, and while you’re at it, you really aren’t supposed to take pictures in the OR without consent. M’kay?
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
Our sponsor, Panacea Financial, is having a giveaway! 5 students in the 2021 Match will get $500 in their Match Day Giveaway, so head on over to find out more!
It must have been a bad week for someone, because Dave thought it’d be great to have a compliment festival. Of course, compliments have a huge role in learning, though Dave wasn’t sure there were enough opportunities for getting compliments during the pre-clinical years. So he asked M1s AJ Chowdhury, Nicole Hines, and Rick Gardner, and M4 Marisa Evers to join him in complimenting each other just for fun.
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
How To Fix A Gap: Do It Yourself!
Mar 11, 2021
No school, employer, or profession is perfect; and lots of times, you have to step up to fix it.
This episode’s sponsor, Panacea Financial, is having a Match Day Giveaway! Med students in the 2021 Match can enter to be one of five students who will win $500! Enter at panaceafinancial.com/matchday.
Long time SCP listener and CCOM M4 Austin Kazarian joins us on the show to talk about the personal finance course he proposed and helped create. Wait, isn’t there enough to learn in medicine? There is, but as long as med school debt is a problem, it’s important to learn how to deal with it, as well as many other financial issues that exist for new residents. Join him, MD/MBA student Gabe Conley, and M4s Joyce Wahba and Tim Maxwell for a discussion on how medical students can fix the inevitable gaps in their schools’ curricula, and why it’s important to look for a joint that’ll take your suggestions and let you lead with them (and see this article, and the Academic Medicine commentary discussed during the show). And if you want to bring Austin’s personal finance for physicians curriculum to your school, he’ll share his proposal with you to get started–drop him a DM @AustinKazarian.
Also, Dave gives the crew a news quiz. Were you paying attention these past few weeks?
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
The King of Intestinal Gas
Mar 04, 2021
This episode is sponsored by Panacea Financial, a Division of Sonabank, Member FDIC. Panacea is banking for medical students and doctors.
Every once in a while, Dave likes to just get to know his med student co-hosts better. This time, in order to accomplish that goal, he invited each of them–M1s Rick Gardner, AJ Chowdhury, Alex Belzer, and M4 Tim Maxwell–to bring some converation starters with them. Is it relevant? Sure, if you squint your ears real hard, jeez, can’t you guys give up on clinical relevance every so often and just have some fun?
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How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
Good Advice: Wrong Answers Only
Feb 25, 2021
The advice students get from mentors, peers, and advisors isn’t always good.
Photo by CarbonNYC [in SF!]
This episode is sponsored by Panacea Financial, a division of Sonabank, member FDIC. Panacea is banking for medical students, built by doctors.
Opinions are like a-holes. They’re everywhere. But that doesn’t mean that the advice you’ll get is always useful. On today’s show, Marisa Evers, Rick Gardner, Eric Boeshart, and Nicole Hines discuss the advice that co-hosts have gotten during their journey that didn’t quite pan out as true.
Plus the crew try to guess what’s been censored out of stock photos Dave found–play along on our Instagram.
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
In Med School We Trust. or not.
Feb 18, 2021
When should med students trust their school…and when should they push back?
This episode is sponsored by Panacea Financial, a division of Sonabank, member FDIC. Panacea is banking for medical students, built by doctors.
Med students sometimes find it difficult to trust their school will get them through this ordeal of learning medicine. Sometimes you’re taught things that seem less than useful. Sometimes your professors or administrators don’t seem to understand what’s at stake for you. Sometimes the rules and procedures are puzzling. When should you trust the system, and when should you push back? To help him with this topic Dave talks to M1s Rick Gardner, AJ Chowdhury, and Eric Boeshart; and M4 Holly Conger. They discuss times when trust was warranted (turns out the Kreb’s cycle really does have clinical applications), and when to push back if something needs fixing.
Plus, Dave and the crew visit the saddest place on the Internet to practice answering real medical questions: Yahoo! Answers.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
What Jobs to Med Students Actually Do in their clerksh?
Feb 11, 2021
The medical student’s jobs may be less than sexy, but they’re important.
Medical students are both learners and an important part of the teaching hospital labor pool. Recently, Dave realized he doesn’t actually know–what are their actual jobs? And how do they find out what they are?
In general the job is to both learn medicine and be helpful. There are many tasks that belong to no particular person, and students can take advantage of this by being there to jump in and take on the job. Whether it’s getting that cup of water or calling another hospital for a patient’s records, someone’s got to do the unsexy stuff. By taking on that task that no one else has time for the student frees up a nurse, a resident or an attending for the more complex tasks. Like teaching! Perhaps as important, that student has an opportunity to demonstrate their can-do attitude and get that all important positive comment on their evaluation to show their prospective residency programs as they apply for jobs.
M3s Nick Lind and Emma Barr, and M4s Holly Conger and Joyce Wahba join Dave to share what they’ve learned, and show that even if you’re not the brain of the operation, even if you’re just a kinesin dragging your vesicle around a cell in between the hospital’s toes, the least glamorous task is a lifesaver to someone.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
DROWNING IN EXTRACURRICULAR ACTIVITIES
Feb 04, 2021
Doing stuff outside of your coursework is fantastic…until it isn’t.
Actual photograph of Gwyneth Paltrow’s “This Smells Like My Vagina” candle in use.
Listener Tasneem Ahmed–a fourth-year medic at London’s King’s College–joins MD/PhD student Aline Sandouk, M4 Holly Conger, and M1s AJ Chowdhury and Alex Belzer on the show. She wrote to us at theshortcoats@gmail.com because she wanted to talk with us about those times when extracurricular activities are too much of a good thing. These activities are important to both schools and students as a way to convey and learn vital lessons about service and career opportunities. But there is a temptation to overdo it in an attempt to distinguish oneself as a competitive applicant. Take that far enough, and it’s a recipe for exhaustion and burnout.
We also take time to compare the two systems of medical education, dance on the grave of Step 2 CS, and cover the most important story of January 2021: Gwyneth Paltrow’s exploding vagina candle.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
Is Medicine A Calling, or a Job?
Jan 28, 2021
Which take on medicine is best for patients and provider mental health?
Dave and the gang–including M1s AJ Chowdhury and Alex Belzer; M4 Holly Conger; and MD/PhD student Aline Sandouk–take a look at the prevalent idea that medicine is a “calling,” somewhat like religion is for many. That’s an imperfect analogy, but there are parallels. People talk, for instance, about the sacrifices, the altruism, the service, and the requirement that doctors be at all times upstanding and display exceptional integrity. This view has some obvious benefits for the profession, including that its practitioners are laser focused on being the best physicians and people they can be.
But that view of physician-hood carries with it a lot of weight. When medicine is viewed as a calling, being a physician may become one’s primary identity. And when perfection remains frustratingly out of reach, the risk is that you’ll come to view yourself as a bad person and not as a doctor who is still learning. At least, that’s what Dave worries, but is it true?
Plus, Holly brings us up to date on life as an M4, especially her search for a residency position.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
What You Should Tell Your FAmily About Med School
Jan 21, 2021
How they can help, support, and understand what you’re doing here.
“I’m afraid medical science has yet to find a cure for ‘Brown Owies,’ madam.”
[We livestream our recording sessions most Fridays on our listeners Facebook group, The Short Coat Student Lounge. Join us to add your questions and comments to the show!]
Families are a blessing (usually). A source of support, love, and acceptance, they can prop you up in those moments when you need it. Sure, sometimes they goof–well meaning comments, misplaced efforts to help, and untimely visits do happen–but they just want what’s best.
On this episode MD/PhD student Aline Sandouk and M1s AJ Chowdhury, Alex Belzer and Nicole Hines talk about the things they’d have wanted their families to know about before med school began.
Speaking of misguided attempts to be helpful, Dave leads the team in an exercise to develop their communication skills, to see if the crew get their medical points across to their patients even when forced to speak as cavemen.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
[Happy New Year! Did you know you can join The Short Coat Student Lounge on Facebook, and help us with the show? We livestream there every time we record, and if you’re there you can help us make sure we get all the angles.]
A while back we got a somewhat provocative listener question: do osteopathic medicine students have a disadvantage in entering competitive specialties?
Our answer back then was not really. And we weren’t wrong, but recently Dr. Ian Storch of the DO or Do Not Podcast offered to sit with us and expand on our ideas. Of course, M3s Jenna Mullins, Allison Klimesh, and MD/PhD student Miranda Schene were only too happy to get some new information on the topic. And he brought with him two of his podcasting DO students, Amir Khiabani and Courtney Merlo. Among the clarifying points they offered:
Why do people choose an osteopathic education over an allopathic education?
What is the real deal with board exams–do DOs really have to take both the USMLE and COMLEX boards?
Do osteopaths really experience bias when trying to match in subspecialties?
What is osteopathic manipulative medicine, anyway?
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
Recess Rehash: Microaggressions: preparing to experience, witness, and commit them
Jan 07, 2021
[Were on a break from recording, it we’ll be back on January 14 with a new episode. Enjoy this rerun for now!]
Good intentions are everywhere. Good behavior…well, that’s more complicated. Such is the case with microaggressions, the term coined by Harvard University psychiatrist Chester Pierce in 1970 to describe minor yet hurtful comments. Pierce’s original definition encompassed statements aimed at African Americans, but of course one can accidentally or purposefully put down any minority individual–women, LGBTQ+ individuals, non-white ethnicities, and more.
Unfortunately, nearly 50 years after Dr. Pierce proposed the term, microaggressions are still a thing. Dave admits to his sins, and M1s Sahaanna Arumagam and Nathen Spitz, along with SCP intern Joel Horne discuss how to prepare for the inevitability of witnessing, experiencing, and committing microaggressions.
Plus, can this week’s co-hosts diagnose their weird patients’ quirks?
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You care about others, or you wouldn’t be into this medicine thing. Our #merchforgood program lets you to give to our charity of the semester and get something for yourself at the same time!
What are your microaggression stories? Tell us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Recess Rehash: This Student’s Shame is Changing Our Curriculum
Dec 31, 2020
[Happy New Year! We are taking a break from recording, and our next new show is out on January 14. In the meantime, enjoy this rerun. This episode was sponsored by Pattern. We hope you’ll check out their disability insurance offerings for docs at http://patternlife.com/partner/shortcoat.]
Doctors and medical students often have an identity based on perfection and infallibility. Often it that identity comes from their own expectations of themselves, and sometimes it comes from external sources. Whatever the source, it’s both motivating and problematic to feel shame when mistakes are made, or when knowledge is imperfect.
Fourth-year student and future OB/Gyn doc Luci Howard visited with MD/PhD student Aline Sandouk and M1s Caitlin Matteson, Morgan Kennedy, and Emerald Dohleman to talk about her project to create a curriculum about shame and medical student identity. Her shame–as a first-gen college graduate, as a perfectionist, and as someone who’s made mistakes–was holding her hostage in some ways, but now her curriculum works to illuminate and combat the negative effects of shame in medical education, and it will soon be integrated into the College of Medicine’s curriculum. Her work means that future medical learners will learn how to react productively and rationally when they inevitably achieve less-than-perfection.
Buy Our Merch and Give At The Same Time
You care about others, or you wouldn’t be into this medicine thing. Our #merchforgood program lets you to give to our charity of the semester and get something for yourself at the same time!
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Would you be willing to share experiences that have felt shameful in order to help others? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
We need validation. Leave a review: iTunes
The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Vaccine Fever
Dec 24, 2020
Happy Holidays!
As we recorded this show, vaccine doses were beginning to spread across the world–well, across the rich countries of the world, anyway. The poorer countries were left with the WHO’s risky donation-funded program to distribute doses, causing concern that the program might just collapse because some countries we could mention decided not to contribute. We’re looking at you, United States of America and China.
We discuss ‘the right to be forgotten,’ a right which many in the USA and elsewhere might not meaningfully have. And Dave pretends to be a medical educator with a pop quiz on historical medical practices.
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Recess Rehash: Liver Bits, Cold Glocks, and Cancer of the Cancer
Dec 17, 2020
[Last week’s show encountered some technical difficulties. So enjoy this rerun instead. We promise it’s cool.]
“He who laughs has not yet heard the bad news.”
Photo by firepile
Co-hosts Nathen Spitz, Brandon Bacalzo, Mariam Mansour, and Greta Becker rehash their recent microbiology exam which they say kicked their butts, and how they deal with that nasty feeling. Dave discusses what Naegleria Fowleri means to him. Nathen and Mariam reminisce on their experiences with patient instructors and standardized patients.
And the gang practices giving bad news to their patients, using made-up diseases with names created by neural networks and assisted by their attending “Dr. Etler.”
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AMA: Racism is a Public health Threat. SCP Co-hosts: Gosh, really?
Dec 10, 2020
[This episode is sponsored by Panacea Financial, a Division of Sonabank, Member FDIC. Please support our sponsor by visiting https://panaceafinancial.com/]
In mid-November, the American Medical Association declared racism to be a public health threat. With that declaration, they adopted policies to acknowledge and recognize racism as detrimental to the health and well-being of all of America’s citizens, and to encourage the study of its effects and the creation of medical education curricula.
Great! But this week’s co-hosts, Nathen Spitz, Aline Sandouk, Sahaana Arumugam, and Ananya Munjal, have mixed feelings and hope that the AMA won’t be among the many institutions that have made similar declarations without taking real action.
But first, listener Malcolm wrote in to theshortcoats@gmail.com to ask how he might take advantage of his fortunate position as the holder of multiple acceptances to medical school in negotiating for financial aid. The co-hosts have definitely got some advice, based mostly upon our fantasies of being in the same position.
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Recess Rehash: When Doctors Do Harm ft. Danielle Ofri, MD
Dec 03, 2020
Hippocrates set a high bar.
[Hope your Thanksgiving was excellent, safe, and happy! We didn’t record anything this week, so here’s a rerun for you.]
Dr. Danielle Ofri–NYU professor of medicine, Bellevue Hospital internist, and author of great renown–joined us this time to talk about her new book, When We Do Harm: A Doctor Confronts Medical Error. Examining medical errors is a something all good physicians do–sometimes on a stage in front of their colleagues but often surreptitiously. However, “mistakes were made” simply isn’t acceptable to most patients and lawyers. Meanwhile, the shame felt by practitioners who make mistakes is not only unhelpful but hinders their development and can contribute to burnout and depression. Because of the consequences of shame are so dire, Dr. Ofri argues in her book that confronting mistakes in a humane, understanding, and open fashion is vital.
Not many years ago, a headline grabbed her attention: medical errors are the third-leading cause of death in the United States. How can that be? she wondered. If people were dying at that rate, wouldn’t physicians have noticed this earlier? Of course, it turns out that the story of medical error is much more complicated than that headline would lead one to believe, and set Dr. Ofri on the path to this latest book. Join MD/PhD student Aline Sandouk, M4 Marisa Evers, M2 Jessica De Haan, and M4 Anne Nora for this discussion on the sources of error, the causes, and the ways to understand and learn from the inevitable.
We also discuss her and her colleagues’ experiences fighting COVID-19 in New York City and learning about the disease in real time.
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Quality over Quantity: Clinical Experiences and Volunteering in COVID Times
Nov 26, 2020
[This episode is sponsored by Panacea Financial, a Division of Sonabank, Member FDIC. Please support our sponsor by visiting https://panaceafinancial.com/]
The Short Coats have begun livestreaming their recordings in our Facebook group (most Fridays at noon central–join us and be a part of the show). Listeners Garrett and Isaac wrote in with questions about the clinical hours schools want from their applicants. How important is the number of hours, asked Garrett, and what changes in that number are schools making in COVID times? Lucky for you, gentlemen, MD/PhD student Aline Sandouk, M3 Emma Barr, and M1s Alex Belzer and AJ Chowdhury are on the show to suss it out for you. Plus, we provide some suggestions for alternatives if the usual activities just aren’t available to you. And livestream viewer Cierra asks how we think this year’s experiences will change medical education. Did we learn new things about how to deliver medical education? Are students less prepared than they would otherwise have been?
A couple shows ago, Dave indulged himself in a rant about Americans’ seeming inability to follow best practices for spreading COVID, basically saying those folks are wimps. But a recent editorial in MedPageToday.com makes him reconsider his delivery.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
What About Choosing the Cheapest Medical School?
Nov 19, 2020
Given how much med school costs, isn’t it best to go for your cheapest option?
[This episode is sponsored by Panacea Financial, a Division of Sonabank, Member FDIC. Please support our sponsor by visiting https://panaceafinancial.com/]
A listener we’re calling Victor Von Stateschool called us at 347-SHORT-CT to continue the recent spate of listener questions about choosing a medical school. Sure, prestige is something to consider…and yes, perhaps moving away from home to broaden your horizons is a good idea…but what about just picking your cheapest option even when you have the stats to go elsewhere? MD/PhD students Sahaana Arumugam and Miranda Schene, and M2s Ananya Munjal and Nathen Spitz try to put it all together. Pro tip: you can actually pit schools’ offers against each other to lower your tuition!
And we try the Whisper Challenge again, because we’re not in the studio together to get germs on each other. Thanks, COVID…
We Want to Hear From You
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To Leave or Not To Leave
Nov 12, 2020
Should Jenna broaden her horizons by moving away for medical school?
[This episode is sponsored by Panacea Financial, a Division of Sonabank, Member FDIC. Please support our sponsor by visiting https://panaceafinancial.com/]
Listener Jenna got into Carver College of Medicine! But she’s worried–should she go to a new place to study medicine instead, or should she stay in comfy, cozy Iowa City where she’s been the last few years? Sit tight, Jenna, because M1 Lola Lozano (Texas), M1 Albert Pedroza (Nebraska), MD/PhD student Aline Sandouk (lots of places) and M1 Nicole Hines (Iowa) are here to look at the options with you!
Bun Bun writes in to complain about what they saw as our unfair treatment of Ivy League schools…although, if they’d listened verrrrry carefully, they’d see that’s not something we actually did.
Dave loses his cool about the pandemic complainers. Yes, it’s frustrating to have to stay home and avoid family over the holidays. But this is war.
And yet…he immediately proves the point by forgetting you can’t play the Whisper Challenge without a mask on. So the crew braces themselves against the disappointment–damn you, COVID!–and soldier on. Brave podcasters, all.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
The Power and Perils of Prestige in Med Ed
Nov 05, 2020
Name recognition is great, but it’s not all it’s cracked up to be.
So Fancy!
Listener Morgan wrote in to ask what we thought about Ivy League schools with high name recognition, and whether it should be an important factor in her decision on a school to attend. MD/PhD student Aline Sandouk and M2s Greta Becker, Mariam Mansour, and Brandon Bacalzo discuss what they’ve learned about the value of big name schools and compare them to the education Morgan would get at the lesser-known schools.
We discuss the future of The Short Coat Podcast, namely our plans for livestreaming video of our recording sessions at The Short Coat Student Lounge. Join the SCP Lounge so you can be a part of the show, and we’d love to hear your ideas for such a venture.
And we visit the saddest place on the Internet to give the crew a chance to practice answering medical questions, including how riding the bus affects fertility and recent developments in the war on hydrogen peroxide.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
Choosing Your Clinical Education: Community Hospital or Academic Medical Center?
Oct 29, 2020
On this episode, M2s Nathen Spitz and Sahaana Arumugam, M3 Emma Barr, and MD/PhD student Aline Sandouk reminisce about simpler Halloween times, when the only thing to worry about was whether your costume was going to be on the sexy branch or the non-sexy branch of the decision tree. Emma gives us her thoughts on why it was a good idea to do her ‘core’ clinical clerkships (like Internal Medicine, Psych, and Peds) at community hospitals in Des Moines instead of at our academic medical center closer to home.
It’s time to vote in the US, and we reflect on why students absolutely must not ignore politics, and just how easy it is to get involved.
And, anticipating his friends’ need to one day be decision makers in medicine (and perhaps politicians?) Dave forces them to fight to the figurative death.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
Md/PhD worries: Transitioning to the Lab
Oct 22, 2020
Next semester Madi Wahlen will enter the PhD phase of her MD/PhD journey, and the though to that transition makes her kind of nervous. Fortunately, both she and Aline Sandouk were on this week’s episode, allowing space for Madi (and co-hosts Levi Endelman and AJ Chowdhury) to ask Aline questions about her experiences transitioning to the PhD phase. How did she handle the transition? How did she find a lab to work in? What kinds of specialties to MD/PhD students typically go into? Aline knows!
Reminder to US Listeners: Vote! Time is running out to get your absentee or mail-in vote counted. Head on over to http://ballotpedia.org to research candidates, find out how voting works in your state at http://vote.org, and know that Dave and The Short Coats love you for your engagement in the process of choosing our leaders.
And Dave gives the gang a fill-in-the-blanks quiz on weird research he found. What do mosquitos and people both hate enough to stop having sex? What do coked-up bees and people tend to do more of? And what preference do chickens and people have in common? Dave has the answers.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
On Top or Down Low: The Status Hierarchies in Medicine ft. Tania Jenkins, PhD
Oct 15, 2020
What you should know about the super hierarchical world of medicine
Have you ever wondered what the world of medicine would look like to an ethnographer? To University of North Carolina Chapel Hill Professor Tania Jenkins, perhaps it looks like a ladder of status, from the lowly med student to the exalted attending (and even higher). For her book Doctors’ Orders: The Making of Status Hierarchies in an Elite Profession, Professor Jenkins spent years looking at the construction and consequences of those distinctions for doctors before, during, and after their training, especially among American, international, and osteopathic residents in two US hospitals.
Cohosts Emma Barr (M3), Bryn Myers (M2), and Greta Becker (M2) discuss with Dr. Jenkins why status hierarchies seem so important in medicine, what they accomplish and inhibit, and why they may be short-changing the system, the practitioners, and the patients.
Dr. Jenkins also helps us answer a question from “Glisten Rumpybottom” about the future of medicine as the scope of practice for mid-level practitioners like nurse practitioners and PAs continues to expand. Is this a safety issue or a turf war?
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
Chronic Conditions in Medical School
Oct 08, 2020
What having a chronic health issue means to medical students varies…except that it will make them even better doctors.
Listener Michael has type one diabetes and “an incredibly rare form” of epilepsy. He’s pretty open about this and plans to use his experience to inform his education on patient care. He got in touch to ask us to discuss chronic health conditions and how they interact with medical school and the patient experience. We were lucky enough to find a few medical students to offer their own journeys for discussion to cohosts Emma Barr, Aline Sandouk, and newbies AJ Chowdhury and Alex Belzer.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
The Doctor is Burned Out ft. Jeff Moody, MD
Oct 01, 2020
We are honored to talk with author and physician Jeff Moody, University of Iowa College of Medicine class of ’92, and urologist, here to talk with us about physician burnout, It’s the topic of his new book The Doctor is Burned Out: A Physician’s Guide to Recovery.
Co-hosts Madi Wahlen, Aline Sandouk, Ananya Munjal, and Nicole Hines talk about ‘wellness,’ the ways that med students and physicians look at medicine and medical education that contribute to burnout, like the dangers of maximizing everything you do and a reliance on external metrics for success, why some specialties are more likely to have burnt out docs than others. Dr. Moody also encourages us to understand our own value to the system–in dollars–as a way to ask for solutions for burnout. He encourages us to remember that our lives effect burnout, too–docs and students aren’t exempt from adverse childhood experiences, divorce and other stressors of life! And of course, we talk about his prescription for how to fix burnout if it happens to you.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
Flyover Country? Far From It!
Sep 24, 2020
Things happen in Iowa. They really do. That’s why Dave put together a little trivia contest for his co-hosts–Sahaana Arumugam, Emma Barr, Aline Sandouk, and Brandon Bacalzo–to test their knowledge of the excitement that is Iowa.
But first, we discuss the news that, as alleged by a whistleblowing nurse, a doctor in Georgia has been forcing sterilization on women at an Immigrations Customs and Enforcement detention center. Whether this is true or not remains to be seen, but we note with concern how America treats incarcerated people. And we discuss Brandon’s research experience on a horse tranquilizer’s potential as treatment for psychiatric disorders.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
Liver Bits, Cold Glocks, and Cancer of the Cancer
Sep 17, 2020
“He who laughs has not yet heard the bad news.”
Photo by firepile
Co-hosts Nathen Spitz, Brandon Bacalzo, Mariam Mansour, and Greta Becker rehash their recent microbiology exam which they say kicked their butts, and how they deal with that nasty feeling. Dave discusses what Naegleria Fowleri means to him. Nathen and Mariam reminisce on their experiences with patient instructors and standardized patients.
And the gang practices giving bad news to their patients, using made-up diseases with names created by neural networks and assisted by their attending “Dr. Etler.”
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
Recess Rehash: MD/MBA: Why Physicians Must Know More About Business
Sep 10, 2020
Does a physician need to know everything about healthcare, even the *shudder* money stuff?
[Dave was out of the office on recording day last week, so enjoy this rerun!]
Physicians go through years and years of school to be great at this calling, so why on earth would anyone want to tack on an MBA, too? Co-host Gabe Conley decided to do just that. He’s been thinking about this for a while, but hadn’t pulled the trigger on the idea. Then, as he was about to become a fourth-year medical student, SARS-COV-2 came along and gave him a nudge in the right direction. Gabe explains why he thinks it’s vital to understand business principles as a physician–and it’s not just to make more money.
And Dave prompts Gabe and his fellow co-hosts Aline Sandouk, Brandon Bacalzo, and Madi Wahlen to answer some conversation starters. As a result, some conversations were started and we all learned a thing or two.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
BONUS: The challenges of Refugee Healthcare with Dr. Akihiro Seita
Sep 08, 2020
The UN Relief and Works Agency has a tough job, especially in Palestine.
In this bonus episode (recorded prior to the US pa we talk with Dr. Akihiro Seita, the Director of Health and WHO Special Representative to The United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees. He joins thanks to our Global Health Programs unit and its director Robin Paetzold as well as the University of Iowa Lecture Committee. MD/PhD student Aline Sandouk, M2 Abby Fyfe, MD/PhD student Ossama Abu-Halawa, and our former intern Joel Horne, who has a strong interest of his own in global health, talk with Dr. Seita about the difficulties of providing refugees with healthcare when everything seems stacked against their health.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
“Preference Signaling” –the Future of Applications?
Sep 03, 2020
Preference Signaling Tokens may be a way to combat over-applying for residencies, but the schemes have a ways to go yet before they’re ready for prime time.
Dear Residency Program: I love you. Do you love me? Check YES or NO!!!
Dave noticed something he’d never heard of before: a company offering ‘tokens’ (for a fee) that could be used by residency program applicants to signal their love for particular programs. The general idea is to combat the common applicant strategy of applying to as many residency programs as possible to be sure the applicant gets a match. While this strategy is quite reasonable from the individual applicant’s perspective, it causes problems for both programs and the general body of applicants because those extra applications flood programs with candidates that may not actually be interested.
Then he found out that the Otolaryngology Program Directors Organization will be doing something similar, and Aline Sandouk, Eric Boeshart, Emma Barr, and Nicole Lacina explore a analysis of who wins and who looses in such a scheme.
Plus Dave creates an educational game to help students plan how they’ll react to common odd situations. And by educational, he clearly meant “educational.”
We Want to Hear From You
Do you think Preference Signalling is a good idea? What if medical schools adopts the idea? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a kick to hear from you!
does a DO Degree Ruin your Speciality plans?
Aug 27, 2020
Listener Shivam wrote to theshortcoats@gmail.com to ask his question: does becoming a DO hinder one’s chances in competitive specialties? MD/PhD students Aline Sandouk and Sahaana Arumugam, M2 Nathan Spitz, and M4 Marisa Evers weigh in, while Dave uses his tiny brain to try and parse the National Residency Matching Program’s statistics to find an answer.
Photo by chaddavis.photography
The gang considers whether it would help their anxiety to adopt an alter ego to overcome their anxiety surrounding upcoming events. Then Nathan clues them in to the defacing of the famous George Floyd mural in Minneapolis by a medical student. All that and a smattering of Ellen Degeneris news–is she cancelled?
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Are we cancelled because we angered you? Or did we do okay in the discussion? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. Then, call home. They miss you.
A COVID Puzzle in a Rural Iowa Community
Aug 20, 2020
Why was the Hispanic population in Clarion, Iowa seeing so many more infections?
Wright County Courthouse, Clarion, Iowa. Photo by Brandonrush (Creative Commons CC0 1.0 Universal Public Domain Dedication)
Dr. Michael McLoughlin, internist at Clarion Clinic, was puzzled. Why were 95% of the patients who showed up with novel coronavirus infections Hispanic? And what interventions would best help his community?
Meanwhile, M2 Abby Walling was looking for a summer project centering on health disparities after her overseas global health experience was cancelled.
Global Health Programs Director Robin Paetzold knew them both (Dr. McLoughlin graduated from CCOM in 2013), and helped get them together to find answers and develop solutions. M4 Sophie Williams-Perez, M2 Ananya Munjal, and M4 Marisa Evers sat down to talk to Abby and Dr. McLoughlin to discuss what they found.
As a bonus, Dr. McLoughlin discusses his life as a rural medicine practitioner in his town of 3,000.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
Putting on your #MedBikini
Aug 13, 2020
A study is only as good as its methods, and the #medbikini study wasn’t pretty bad.
Maybe you heard: some researchers tried to help vascular surgeons understand that their social media profiles might contain “unprofessional” content. Things like wearing swimsuits and swearing and drinking *shudder* alcohol. Especially by wymmin! Okay, maybe it was better intentioned than that, but join Aline Sandouk, Eric Boeshart, and Ananya Munjal as they explore the ideas and the execution behind this now-retracted ‘study.’
Listener Logan wrote in to theshortcoats@gmail.com to ask why he’s getting the impression from the questions on his secondary applications that there is a divide between specialties and service.
And Ananya talks about her recently launched arts journal for medical learners, The Appendix. It’s not just for CCOM students, either! Any health science student can join the fun!
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
When Doctors Do Harm ft. Danielle Ofri, MD
Aug 06, 2020
Hippocrates set a high bar.
Dr. Danielle Ofri–NYU professor of medicine, Bellevue Hospital internist, and author of great renown–joined us this time to talk about her new book, When We Do Harm: A Doctor Confronts Medical Error. Examining medical errors is a something all good physicians do–sometimes on a stage in front of their colleagues but often surreptitiously. However, “mistakes were made” simply isn’t acceptable to most patients and lawyers. Meanwhile, the shame felt by practitioners who make mistakes is not only unhelpful but hinders their development and can contribute to burnout and depression. Because of the consequences of shame are so dire, Dr. Ofri argues in her book that confronting mistakes in a humane, understanding, and open fashion is vital.
Not many years ago, a headline grabbed her attention: medical errors are the third-leading cause of death in the United States. How can that be? she wondered. If people were dying at that rate, wouldn’t physicians have noticed this earlier? Of course, it turns out that the story of medical error is much more complicated than that headline would lead one to believe, and set Dr. Ofri on the path to this latest book. Join MD/PhD student Aline Sandouk, M4 Marisa Evers, M2 Jessica De Haan, and M4 Anne Nora for this discussion on the sources of error, the causes, and the ways to understand and learn from the inevitable.
We also discuss her and her colleagues’ experiences fighting COVID-19 in New York City and learning about the disease in real time.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
Recess Rehash: Is Academic Medicine Right For You?
Jul 30, 2020
Photo by simpleinsomnia
[SCP has been given a week off–thanks, pandemic/economic collapse! We’ll be back next week, but here’s a pre-pandemic rerun to enjoy.]
Academic medicine–in which a physician works at a university and may have research and/or teaching duties in addition to patient care–is but one of the fulfilling options available to medical students. What’s that lifestyle like? That’s the question an anonymous listener (who we’ll call Dr. Piledhigh Erandeeper) wanted our help answering. Fortunately we have Miranda Schene and Sahaana Arumugam (both in our Medical Scientist Training Program, so they know a thing or two about academic medicine) on hand to tell us–including co-hosts M1 Brandon Bacalzo and M2 Mason LaMarche–what they know about this career option.
Plus Dave puts his co-hosts through a game of Doctor Forehead, featuring some of the more interesting oddball medical stories he ran across prepping for this week’s show (see the next section for those links).
Is there a MD career niche you want to know more about? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
MD/MBA: Why Physicians Must Know More About Business
Jul 23, 2020
Does a physician need to know everything about healthcare, even the *shudder* money stuff?
Physicians go through years and years of school to be great at this calling, so why on earth would anyone want to tack on an MBA, too? Co-host Gabe Conley decided to do just that. He’s been thinking about this for a while, but hadn’t pulled the trigger on the idea. Then, as he was about to become a fourth-year medical student, SARS-COV-2 came along and gave him a nudge in the right direction. Gabe explains why he thinks it’s vital to understand business principles as a physician–and it’s not just to make more money.
And Dave prompts Gabe and his fellow co-hosts Aline Sandouk, Brandon Bacalzo, and Madi Wahlen to answer some conversation starters. As a result, some conversations were started and we all learned a thing or two.
We Want to Hear From You
How’d we do on this week’s show? Did we miss anything in our conversation? Did we anger you? Did we make you smile? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s always a pleasure to hear from you!
How A Young FAmily Should Think About The Risks Of Med School
Jul 16, 2020
No doubt about it, this road to becoming a physician has financial risks
It feels risky to go to medical school, and for someone with a young family, like our listener who sent us their question to theshortcoats@gmail.com, those risks can feel existential. After all, if things don’t go as planned, the financial payoff of this calling might not be realized and the debt would be crippling. And Dave, as an inveterate catastrophizer, has sympathy for that worry. But is it the right way to be thinking about this endeavor? Brandon Bacalzo, Mariam Mansour, Levi Endelman and co-host newb Elias Kovoor are here to tell you why it can be better to go for it without fear. (We have done other episodes that focus on the concerns of parenting in medical school from a mom’s perspective and from a dad’s).
Another listener question (Dave forgot to make up names for these anonymous submissions) asks, how the heck are you supposed to “do the research” when looking for a medical school? We have some good suggestions for that, too.
And Dave, aware the his med student friends are always looking to save money at the grocery store, puts together a taste test–can the co-hosts distinguish between store vs. national brands, and which do they think is better?
We Want to Hear From You
Any responses to the stuff we talked about? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. Do all three!
AAMC ‘s VITA interview tool…is it Really Vital?
Jul 09, 2020
Listener Soma let us know that the AAMC has released an interview app for medical schools to collect videos of applicants answers to some standard questions. Their website says the tool addresses the needs expressed by its member schools during the upcoming interview season. Soma wondered, what do we think?
Of course, that no matter what we think, it seems like applicants will probably have to do it anyway. But M2s Mariam Mansour, Greta Becker, Kayla Kruse and Nikitha Pothireddy are on hand to consider. Hmm…what DO we think of a new item for applicants to put on their to-do list in order to apply to medical school? What DO we think of a set of what appear to be screening questions that could be asked in some other interview format, such as a live virtual interview? What DO we think of a tool which seems to add another item to med schools’ to-do list? What DO we think of a tool which seems at a glance to be similar to another tool that was tried and cancelled for Emergency Medicine residency applications due to lack of interest from programs and applicants?
Also, in light of a surge of COVID-19 cases that seem to be driven by young people eager to discard social distancing and masks to hang out with their buds in bars, we discuss the fairness of asking a screening question during interviews about whether the applicant has been doing the right thing to protect others.
This Week in Medical News
The first person to be treated for sickle cell disease with CRISPR in the US has gotten great news. On the other hand, investigators using fMRI to look at brain function have gotten some bad news.
We Want to Hear From You
Obviously, our discussion on questioning applicants on their bar-hopping habits might have other viewpoints we didn’t cover. What did we miss? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
What Every Med Student Needs To Know About Being a Leader ft. Brent Lacey, MD
Jul 02, 2020
Being a physician leaves you no choice–you ARE going to lead.
Dr. Brent Lacey is a gastroenterologist who is passionate about helping physicians succeed with business and personal finances. As a physician, he understands how overwhelming it can be to step out of clinical training and into a career, and he has seen firsthand the lack of education on how to run a practice and manage finances. That’s also why he founded The Scope of Practice website. http://www.thescopeofpractice.com/
One of the critical job responsibilities of being a physician is leading a team. Those teams can be small–such as those that are caring for patients–or huge–like those that lead healthcare systems. No matter what, learning how to lead a team–and how to be lead–is as important as any medical knowledge a medical school can impart.
Dr. Brent Lacey is a leader himself, a gastroenterologist, a Naval officer, and physician career coach. He knows a few things about leadership, and he talks about these topics and more on his show, The Scope of Practice Podcast. He visited with MD/PhD student Aline Sandouk, M4 Holly Conger, and M2 Nathen Spitz to talk about what makes great leaders in medicine, how to be a great team member, and–very important for you future interns out there–why having a goal of just surviving the first months of your intern year is not good enough.
[Don’t forget to share the show with your friends and family–send a screenshot of the share to theshortcoats@gmail.com to get a free thank you gift from Dave!]
The Socratic method–teaching using questions–is a big part of medical education. It’s also often a big adjustment that medical students have to make when arriving at med school. Why is this method so important to med school profs, and how do you get comfortable speaking up in front of everyone when you know you’ve got no idea? Short Coats Emma Barr, Nick Lind, Holly Conger, and Tim Maxwell have all been there!
Also, since Dave is a news junky, he has the gang play a headline mashup game. Come along as we find out the controversial views of a professor about the function of bones!
In the race to re-establish supply lines in the midst of the pandemic, The White House paid the Texas company $7.3 million for test tubes which turned out to be unformed soda bottles. And fears of out-of-control coronavirus transmission due to BLM protests fizzles.
We Want to Hear From You
Have a question we can answer? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s how this show is YOUR show!
The Right (and Wrong) Ways to Get Help with Your Application
Jun 18, 2020
[Once again, our circumstances force us to endure mild sound quality issues. Sorry, but that’s round-table podcasting in the pandemic age. You’ll be alright.]
We got some lovely responses back from listeners of last week’s show (in which we discussed racism in America and in medicine), including a most important one from Cachae on the best ways to talk to your black friends about racism (hint–it’s not asking them to educate you).
And Cam wanted to know whether he could ask an admissions office member for feedback on his primary application before he submits it instead of getting a rejection after. Wouldn’t it be more efficient?
And Dave and his co-hosts–Abby Fyfe, Nick Lind, Madeline Cusimano, and newb Holly Conger–exercise their minds with a game of Would You Rather.
Science made Dave mad again, with a study on how bald men are more susceptible to poor outcomes from COVID-19 because of the androgens that make them bald–except they didn’t control for one itty-bitty variable! And that study of hydroxychloroquine that found that it’s more deadly than other treatments, thus halting trials around the world? Turns out we shouldn’t trust it much.
We Want to Hear From You
So, how’s it going? Do you even read these questions down here? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
Timing a peace-corps gap year, and Racism and Medicine
Jun 11, 2020
A group of public professionals, infectious disease professionals and community members are pushing back on the common perception that #BLM protests will unnecessarily exacerbate the pandemic. This news leads to a discussion of racism in America. NB: The discussion should speak for itself, but this is the age of internet outrage. So we acknowledge thatwhen it comes to talking about racism in America, there are few better ways to go wrong than by doing so with a room full of white people. And yet, a handful of white people on a podcast that’s minimally planned is what we had to work with in the moment. We hope we got it mostly right, and whatever we didn’t, we hope that your feedback will be in the spirit in which the discussion took place–heartfelt, sincere, and with an eye towards a future free of white fragility, fear, and especially marginalization.
But before all that, we were blessed with listener question from Kayla, who’s looking forward to some gap years in the Peace Corps. What should she do about the resulting timing problem that creates for her future medical school application?
We Want to Hear From You
So, in our discussion on racism, what did we get wrong, and what did we get right? Express your constructive criticism at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
the activities Admissions Committees Love to See
Jun 04, 2020
Logan wrote in to comment on what we call ‘box-checking,’ the idea that med school admissions committees only want applicants who’ve done all the best activities and lots of them, and that applicants must participate in activities that “stand out” if they want any chance of getting in. Co-hosts Nick Lind, Aline Sandouk, Emma Barr, and Sally Haeberlin discuss what adcomms really want.
Also, we visit Yahoo! Answers for those odd questions we love so well. Shouldn’t docs carry tranquilizer guns?
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Applying: Your Experience Is A Bonus, If You Can Tell The Right Story
May 29, 2020
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Listener Christy has several years as a South Carolina emergency department nurse under her belt. But for a while now, she’s been planning to change careers, with her sights set on an MD. She very much wants, however, to be able to discuss her current work during interviews without coming across as a know-it-all.
We don’t often do this, but Dave decided to invite Christy on the show as a co-host to talk about it, and with Short Coats Anna Wilcox, Camilla Koczara, Greta Becker, and Hannah Steenblock, suggest some strategies to her live and in-person.
As a special bonus, Christy’s been working with COVID-19 patients, so we get to find out a little about her experience on the front lines.
Plus we enjoy a poorly thought-out exercise straight from Dave’s brain on ethical dilemmas. This is your chance to find out: would the co-hosts allow the kitty to live or get that extra penis they’ve been dreaming of?
While we’re all staying at home and not driving very much, the rate of motor vehicle accident fatalities In March somehow went up compared to last March. And citizens pinning their hopes for COVID-19 treatment on hydroxychloroquine might want to have a re-think.
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More Signs that Med School Will Be Different This Fall
May 21, 2020
Photo by lauralizzy13
[This episode is brought to you by Pattern. We hope you’ll check out their disability insurance offerings for docs at http://patternlife.com/partner/shortcoat.]
As many of us are, The Short Coats–including this week’s M1 co-hosts Nathen Spitz, Maddie Wahlen, and Caitlin Matteson–have been gazing into their cracked crystal ball to discover the new shape of medical school amid the pandemic. In a previous episode, the crew prognosticated on how interviews would change (and how you can be sure those changes won’t scuttle your chances for interview success), for instance…and it turns out we were right! Adding some certainty to that, the Association of American Medical Colleges has cancelled all its conferences until July of 2021. So yeah.
Sandgroper Largemun, an anonymous listener from Australia, wants to know some ways that he can stand out in medical school to land that choice residency. Good thing you wrote to us at theshortcoats@gmail.com, Sandgroper, because we have ideas for that!
Has your outlook changed at all since the lockdowns began? Are you feeling optimistic? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
This Student’s Shame is Changing Our Curriculum
May 14, 2020
[This episode is brought to you by Pattern. We hope you’ll check out their disability insurance offerings for docs at http://patternlife.com/partner/shortcoat.]
Doctors and medical students often have an identity based on perfection and infallibility. Often it that identity comes from their own expectations of themselves, and sometimes it comes from external sources. Whatever the source, it’s both motivating and problematic to feel shame when mistakes are made, or when knowledge is imperfect.
Fourth-year student and future OB/Gyn doc Luci Howard visited with MD/PhD student Aline Sandouk and M1s Caitlin Matteson, Morgan Kennedy, and Emerald Dohleman to talk about her project to create a curriculum about shame and medical student identity. Her shame–as a first-gen college graduate, as a perfectionist, and as someone who’s made mistakes–was holding her hostage in some ways, but now her curriculum works to illuminate and combat the negative effects of shame in medical education, and it will soon be integrated into the College of Medicine’s curriculum. Her work means that future medical learners will learn how to react productively and rationally when they inevitably achieve less-than-perfection.
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Crush It In Your Zoom Interview
May 08, 2020
Your future could include video conference interviews. Avoid (at all costs) giving interviewers a reason to say no.
Are Zoom interviews the future? They could be, if some sort of magic doesn’t intervene in the course of the pandemic. Meanwhile, everyone has a love-hate relationship with video conferencing, and Dave fears that those on the sharp end of the interview may not have the technology and skills to shine brightly.
So, with the help of Brandon Bacalzo, Sahaana Arumugam, Nathan Spitz, and Claire Carmichael (all M1s who, like you, are in the thick of virtual everything right now), we collect our thoughts on how you can remove the distractions and subconscious biases that could sink your interview.
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Exploring Your New Med School City
Apr 30, 2020
Moving to a new place can be daunting–but it’s an amazing opportunity!
Listener Noodles (not her real name) is planning to go to med school in a new state, perhaps. What’s it like, she wondered, moving to a new state for med school? And Lex Turesboreme is back to ask how MSTP student Miranda Schene and M1s Brandon Bacalzo, Maggie Jakubiak, and Kenzie McKnight deal with an inevitable part of med student life–their families’ medical questions.
Got a question we can help with? Call 347-SHORT-CT or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. We’ll talk about it on the show!
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Here is Dr. Birx’s reaction when President Trump asks his science advisor to study using UV light on the human body and injecting disinfectant to fight the coronavirus. pic.twitter.com/MVno5X7JMA
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How the Sausage is Made: Why Doctors–and Students–Must Engage In Politics
Apr 23, 2020
Photo by greyloch
Policy is not sexy. I mean, it’s not saving lives, or curing disease, or making groundbreaking discoveries. But it isn’t a stretch to say that policy is as important as any of these, because politicians are making decisions about health and healthcare that affect millions of patients and their physicians. The laws they come up with determine what you can do for your patients, how you practice medicine, how you get paid, what kinds of care are legal or illegal, and much, much more. Seems like something doctors should pay attention to, perhaps even get directly involved with.
M4 and future surgeon Sarah Eikenberry got a glimpse of the process as the first student to take the Carver College of Medicine’s new advocacy clerkship. Think you know how a bill gets passed? You might be surprised to know that Schoolhouse Rock didn’t tell us the whole story. Her self-assigned project for the clerkship was to get a bill passed in the Iowa state legislature to include the Stop The Bleed campaign in public education in Iowa. That turns out to be a pretty big project! Was she successful? What did she learn? Where do things go often off the rails?
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Recess Rehash: Why you’re better off on day one not knowing what kind of doc you want to be.
Apr 16, 2020
Photo by herlitz_pbs
[Due to one thing or another, we didn’t record last week. So here’s a re-run. Hey, if Radiolab can do it, so can we. Enjoy!]
Med school may be a trying experience, but it’s made so much better by the lifelong friends you meet. That’s the case for today’s co-hosts, Kylie Miller, Olivia Pittman, Danielle Schilling, and Erin Pazaski, all M4s. Their experience turns out to be a good thing for listener Coleman who wants to know if he should already know what his specialty will be on his first day at med school this coming fall, or if not knowing will disadvantage him in some way.
Also discussed: their upcoming Match Week (perhaps to be cancelled due to COVID-19), and the bad advice they’ve gotten on how to appear confident and competent as lady docs.
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This Week in Medical News
The director of the Santa Clara County Public Health Department, offering advice on reducing the spread of COVID-19, was the source of some internet amusement this week. And perhaps one day you’ll do your residency at Walmart!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
the crudest patient
Apr 09, 2020
Photo by christopher frier brown
Dave wants to help his co-hosts–M1s Nathan Spitz, Cody West, and newbs Chris Halbur and Eli Schmidt–in their journey to physician-hood, so he puts on his medical educator hat and visits Yahoo! Answers. He also discovers that when discussing his complaint with the doctor, he wants to be the crudest possible kind of patient.
Senorina Espanole (not her real name) writes in to tell us what she’s doing to keep busy and help her community while being socially distant. And Dave explains why toilet paper hoarding might not actually be what’s happening.
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Senorina Espanola sent in a question–what about you? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. It’s what good listeners do!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
What We’re Still Doing, What Brings Us Joy
Apr 02, 2020
Photo by Martin Lindstrom
Dave asked listeners what they’re doing to help out in the time of COVID-19 and got some responses back to talk about. These things, whether big or small, directly related or tangential to this public health crisis–even if it means staying at home–are all part of an unusual effort among the people of the world to contribute to a greater purpose. Whether it’s making PPE, making explainer videos, picking up garbage outside, or staying home, it’s all important.
Which reminded Dave of a New Yorker article on why many people find it so difficult to believe that this massive effort of social distancing and lockdowns is a good idea.
And we talk about the things that still are able to bring us joy even when we can’t venture out of the house.
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Podcasting from A (social) distance
Mar 26, 2020
Photo by Laura-Del
(For the first time ever, we did the show with all five hosts in different places, and it shows. Forgive the scratchy audio in some places. We’re working on it, and hope you can look past it this time.)
In this time of social distancing, The Short Coats reluctantly step back from their education and research. New co-hosts M1s Ananya Munjal and Claire Carmichael, along with MD/PhD students Aline Sandouk and Miranda Schene, discuss the national residency Match statistics, what their lives look like as they distance themselves from other humans.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Covid-19 could change the world…forever
Mar 19, 2020
Photo by davide.alberani
There’s no doubt that the global pandemic of COVID-19 has caused much human suffering. And for those people around the world who are the worst affected, know that you have our deepest sympathies. No one should have to go through this.
Nevertheless, something compelled Dave to think about the ways that society might change as a result of the pandemic…in some ways, perhaps for the better; in others, perhaps things will just different than were before. Either way, co-hosts Eric Boeshart, Kenzie McKnight, Michael Gardeau, and Nathen Spitz try to look into the crystal ball a bit.
Next up, the crew answers some listener questions. “Lex Turesboreme” wants some advice on using lectures wisely when attendance isn’t required. And Soon-to-be-Dr-Ray is looking for some perspectives on which school to enroll in: the DO school or the MD school. We’re on it, friends!
And Dave takes the opportunity to put on his fake medical educator hat to give a pop quiz on historical epidemics.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Why you’re better off on day one not knowing what kind of doc you want to be.
Mar 12, 2020
Photo by herlitz_pbs
Med school may be a trying experience, but it’s made so much better by the lifelong friends you meet. That’s the case for today’s co-hosts, Kylie Miller, Olivia Pittman, Danielle Schilling, and Erin Pazaski, all M4s. Their experience turns out to be a good thing for listener Coleman who wants to know if he should already know what his specialty will be on his first day at med school this coming fall, or if not knowing will disadvantage him in some way.
Also discussed: their upcoming Match Week (perhaps to be cancelled due to COVID-19), and the bad advice they’ve gotten on how to appear confident and competent as lady docs.
Buy Our Merch and Give At The Same Time
You care about others, or you wouldn’t be into this medicine thing. Our #merchforgood program lets you to give to our charity of the semester and get something for yourself at the same time!
This Week in Medical News
The director of the Santa Clara County Public Health Department, offering advice on reducing the spread of COVID-19, was the source of some internet amusement this week. And perhaps one day you’ll do your residency at Walmart!
We Want to Hear From You
What bad advice have you gotten on how to present yourself as a woman? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Holding out for your dream school
Mar 05, 2020
Brandon Bacalzo (in back), Jessica De Haan (front) and others visit a giant inflatable colon. As one does.
Emotions are difficult to ignore. Especially when those emotions are telling us to ACT NOW! That’s what listener Jordan from Texas is fighting as he happily gets an acceptance from his backup, with no word from his dream school. Should he commit now? Should he sit tight? Co-hosts Brandon Bacalzo, Michael Gardeau, Jessica De Haan, and Cody West (All M1s) share their experiences and advice for Jordan.
And Dave continues his quest to learn all he can about his med student friends with a game of Would You Rather.
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How’s med school application season going for you? Did you experience any interview trail weirdness you want to share? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. We love all kinds of messages!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Is Academic Medicine Right For You?
Feb 27, 2020
Photo by simpleinsomnia
Academic medicine–in which a physician works at a university and may have research and/or teaching duties in addition to patient care–is but one of the fulfilling options available to medical students. What’s that lifestyle like? That’s the question an anonymous listener (who we’ll call Dr. Piledhigh Erandeeper) wanted our help answering. Fortunately we have Miranda Schene and Sahaana Arumugam (both in our Medical Scientist Training Program, so they know a thing or two about academic medicine) on hand to tell us–including co-hosts M1 Brandon Bacalzo and M2 Mason LaMarche–what they know about this career option.
Plus Dave puts his co-hosts through a game of Doctor Forehead, featuring some of the more interesting oddball medical stories he ran across prepping for this week’s show (see the next section for those links).
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The news that the USMLE changed the all-important Step 1 exam–which many residency programs have been using improperly to stratify applicants and which can affect one’s specialty choice–to pass/fail starting in 2022-ish caused quite a bit of shock and consternation last week. Sure, some celebrated the change as a victory, but there’s just one liiiiiittle problem: the more competitive residency programs feel they need some standardized measure to base their choices on.
Several listeners wrote in with questions on the change, and the underlying concerns those questions addressed was the uncertainty left in the wake of this change–to wit, “what am I to aim for if there is no three-digit score I can point to as a mark of excellence?” Though the powers-that-be are essentially responding, “we’re working on it, we’ll get back to you on that,” there are some possibilities to consider. And we shall, with the help of M4 Matt Wilson, MD/PhD students Aline Sandouk and Hannah Van Ert, and M1 Nathen Spitz.
Special thanks to listener Terrified Chihuahua and everyone who reached out with questions on this sudden shift in the medical education landscape!
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What are your thoughts on how a pass/fail Step 1 score will change medical education and the residency application process? Did we miss anything? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com!
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Why Come to the US for Residency When Turkey has Pet Parks?
Feb 13, 2020
Turkish listener Ali would like to come to the US for residency and to practice medicine someday, so he wrote to us to ask us what we knew about how that works. Co-host Nadia Wahba happened to visit Turkey a while back and blew our minds by letting us in on a little secret: that in the city she visited, there are public parks full of well-cared-for pets you can visit and play with.
Also, Dave subjects the gang–which also includes MD/PhD student Miranda Schene, M2 Jenna Mullins, and M3 Brendan George–to a game of Great Minds Think Alike: Med School Edition.
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Singer, Songwriter, Scientist: Rosanne Cash
Feb 11, 2020
What does Rosanne Cash have to do with science or medicine?
Sure, the American pop, folk, country, and roots rock legend isn’t technically a scientist. But it was surprising for us to learn that Rosanne Cash has the soul of one within her, with its arms spread comfortably around her musician and poet souls. When the University of Iowa’s Hancher Auditorium reached out to the College of Medicine to let us know she’d be putting on a concert and might be interested in coming to speak on a panel, we had to dig a little deeper to find out about the connection.
Rosanne was diagnosed in 2007 with Chiari malformation with syringomyelia, a disorder of the skull which puts pressure on the brain and causes the cerebellum to protrude into the spinal canal. It’s an incredibly painful, debilitating problem that is usually diagnosed in children, not in a woman in her 50s. Her doctors gave her all sorts of diagnoses (some with a dose of condescension), until she diagnosed herself. Even then, it took finding the right doctor to believe her to get her on the long journey to recovery. The lessons of her identity and career-threatening condition are profound.
Then, too, there is Rosanne’s curiosity about music and the brain. With MD/PhD student Miranda Schene, M1 Alexa Schmitz and neuroscientist Justin Sipla, PhD she was fully on board for an often trippy exploration of how and why we are creatures of rhythm, the “sorcery” our brains use to fabricate meaning from vibrations in the world around us, and what an openness to shared experiences can do for medical students and doctors and their patients.
There are other connections to medicine. The link between a performer being on stage for an audience and physicians performing a role for their patients are considerable, and the lessons Rosanne has learned about creating a shared experience between performer and audience are applicable to the relationship between doctors and their patients. But there is also her desire to “keep a beginner’s mind” that every doctor should appreciate–cultivating one’s curiosity and understanding that “insecurity is part of the game” are essential lessons that could keep you from missing something important in patient care.
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$600,000 in med school debt?!
Feb 06, 2020
Listener Salutes McGee (not her real name) is planning on med school after her tour of duty. What hard-won skills, she wonders, will transfer to medicine? And Krystal writes in with her med school debt worries. Will she need to plan to pay off $600,000 all in? No need to fear, Krystal and Salutes, because M4s Liza Mann, Derek Bradley, Jessie White, and M2 Abby Fife are here to soothe your fears and answer your questions.
Dave quizzes his co-hosts on medicinal booze. And And Dave heard from University of Maryland medical student and Elisabeth Fassas that she’d written a book published by Simon and Schuster’s Kaplan arm just before she started medical school last fall. So as a bonus, he asked her for some tips on how you can set yourself up for a successful pre-medical experience from the very beginning. Pick up her book, Making Pre-Med Count, at your favorite bookseller.
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Are you (or do you know of) a medical student anywhere who’s done something cool like Elisabeth Fassas? Write to us at theshortcoats@gmail.com. Maybe we can help spread the word!
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Do These Things to Manage Your New M1 Life
Jan 30, 2020
Study, but also make friends, join in, do things that give you joy, and keep being you!
Listener Joseph starts medical school soon, and wants to know how to manage his new life as an M1. Luckily Kylie Miller, Kalyn Campbell, Marisa Evers, and Erica Henderson (all veteran med students) can help, Joseph–bottom line, studying is paramount, but there are keys to success you need to remember.
Plus, we visit Yahoo Answers for some real-life health questions, including a couple that got Dave thinking about his own embarrassing problems.
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How residency programs misuse STEP 1 scores
Jan 23, 2020
Residency Programs are Using Step 1 Scores Wrong.
From Andrea Ash’s research on Step 1 scores.
When listener Celebi Jigglypuff (yes, that’s a pseudonym) reached out to ask whether we felt taking Step 1 after a year of clinical rotations (as some schools require) was a good idea or not, we were prepared to sink our teeth into that and have a normal show, too. But then, University of Iowa College of Education PhD student Andrea Ash happened to reach out to us because she’s been looking at Step 1 as a class project and was surprised about what she was finding. Everything from residency programs using scores for an unintended purpose to a cut score far below the averages that students were obtaining to officials snarking about students who should be studying rather than having lives outside of med school. And thus, Dave’s plans for the show were subverted for the greater good–a discussion on much of what’s wrong with this important exam that can affect a medical student’s dream specialty choice.
Is all hope lost if you score less than average for a given specialty? Certainly not! These are averages. But it’s a source of anxiety that to many seems unnecessary–maybe it’s long past time, they say, to make Step 1 pass/fail. Of course, then residency programs would grasp for some other metric to use as a way to weed out their long lists of candidates, but we’d be happy to deal with that in a future show.
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Did you catch what started us talking about this week’s topic? Celebi Jigglypuff’s question! See why we love listener questions? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime or email theshortcoats@gmail.com and tell us what you want us to discuss on next week’s show!
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First author in an 8 week summer research project?
Jan 16, 2020
Research takes time, so what’s a realistic outcome for the summer research student?
Hurry up, science!
Pipette LeGogettuer (not her real name) wrote in to ask for our input on her summer research plans. Not only is she struggling to come up with a project idea but she has very specific hopes for her outcome–first authorship. Is that realistic? How can she find a project and someone who will sponsor her in their lab? Don’t worry, Pipette! Miranda Schene, Danial Syed, Art Thanupakorn, and Mahek Shahid–most of whom have done summer research themselves–have got your answers!
And Dave puts the crew through another of his ‘educational’ activities, a role playing scenario set in an operating room 100 years in the FYOOOTURE!
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This Week in Medical News
In Romania this past December a patient undergoing surgery for her pancreatic cancer caught fire during her operation. And a study in JAMA Internal Medicine has found that old habits die hard, at least when it comes to giving pelvic exams and pap smears to young women and girls.
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What do you think of our advice to Pipette? Do you have a question we can help answer? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Bonus Episode: The Lost Pre-Christmas Show
Jan 14, 2020
[Here’s an episode that we thought was gone forever. Dave claimed that to release it required extensive bitbashing by forensic data reconstruction specialists, but we suspect he just forgot it in his other pants.]
On a previous episode, M2 Mason LaMarche discussed a college friend who had a habit of sketching his bowel movements. On this episode, his friend defends his artistic endeavor, while another LaMarche friend writes in with a question about mind over matter.
And the gang–Mason, and M2s Emma Barr, Nick Lind, and Sahaana Arumugam–tastes some treats from another land. What does that have to do with med school? I don’t know, cultural competency?
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Recess Rehash: How to ADHD in Med School
Jan 09, 2020
[Happy Holidays! Dave is on vacation, but here’s a re-run to tide you over. We’ll be back with new episodes starting 1/16]
We on The Short Coat Podcast like to encourage people to follow their med school dreams in spite of whatever apparent obstacles stand in the way. So when we found out that Jessica McCabe, host of the popular YouTube channel How to ADHD, was coming to the University of Iowa, we were excited to get her on the show. And with co-hosts Irene Morcuende and LA–both successful medical students and ADHD brains–on hand along with CCOM learning specialist Chia-Wen Moon to prove that this obstacle can be just another bump in the road. You may be surprised to hear how those with ADHD brains–and the groups they work in–can actually benefit from their atypical thought processes.
But what kinds of effects does ADHD have in med school? What techniques have worked for LA, Jessica, and Irene? How do relationships suffer and flourish when one of you has ADHD? What does a learning specialist do? And how can medical schools support its students who need help? All questions we discuss for you, Short Coats!
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Do you have ADHD? What about a learning disability? What are you struggling with, and who or what has helped you? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Recess Rehash: Choose a Specialty, Choose a Lifestyle: Factors We Consider
Jan 02, 2020
[Happy Holidays! Dave is on vacation, but here’s a re-run to tide you over. We’ll be back with new episodes starting 1/16]
Short Coat Scribbleson Wordsonpaper (not his real name) wrote a paper for one of his classes, and was told it’d be worth putting it out there for publication. But where, and how? So we asked Writing and Humanities Program Director (and SCP exec producer) Cate Dicharry to give some guidance. Scribbleson’s second question, about the lifestyle factors that medical students weigh when making a specialty choice, was a great one for co-hosts Mackenzie Walhof, Miranda Schene, and Abby Fyfe to dig into.
And Dave puts on his ten-gallon perfesser hat, offering up a pop quiz on the 2019 Ig Nobel prize winners.
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This episode comes out the day after Christmas, and is recorded the week before, so we’re exploring what some describe as “the most wonderful time of the year,” and what others describe as Thursday. Given that recording date, in a bit of time travel Hillary O’Brien, Laura Quast, Jenna Johnson, and LJ Agostinelli share what they want to will have gotten (because time travel is confusing for grammarians) for Christmas. LJ shares her recent experience defending her thesis, Kylie Miller stops by with her cat Mowgli, the gang tries Turkish treats, and Dave forces them to take a pop quiz on Christmas according to unreliable internet sources.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Your patients’ stories will sustain you in your darkest hours (bonus ft. Dr. John Mrachek)
Dec 17, 2019
Photo by lifecreations
On this bonus episode of The Short Coat, we hear from Dr. John Mrachek, an anesthesiologist of 17 years who reached out to us at Iowa because he’d long felt a wedge being driven between doctors and their patients. He said that wedge, made of mouse clicks, political meddling, insurance middlemen, patient satisfaction surveys, and annoying electronic health records–was disconnecting physicians from their purpose. And that missing sense of purpose, he fears, is leading them to burn out. It’s contributing to a frightening problem: physician suicide. Modern medicine, he says, is in peril.
Among the solutions, Dr. Mrachek feels, is to encourage physicians and students to take inventory of their most memorable patient stories. He argues that this will return to them that lost connection to their work. This talk, given to our first- and second-year medical students and the first he’d given on the topic, is the the beginning of his mission to spread that idea.
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The music the background of today’s episode is The Quiet Aftermath by Sir Cubworth.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Freezing Development to Help Care for the Disabled (ft. Dr. Ryan Gray)
Dec 12, 2019
The amazing Dr. Ryan Gray, host of quite a few of the pre-med focused podcasts over at mededmedia.com (of which we, of course, are a member), joins Maddie Mix, Hillary O’Brien, Nick Lind, and Kyle Kinder as guest co-host! Which is good, because we start with a rather difficult topic: should the parents of a profoundly disabled child–who will never be able to care for herself in even the most basic of ways–be allowed to ‘freeze’ her development so that she remains physically six years old if it will enable them care for her at home?
You care about others, or you wouldn’t be into this medicine thing. Our #merchforgood program lets you to give to our charity of the semester and get something for yourself at the same time!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Study Tips, Annoying Hics, and Fat Cloud Rips
Dec 05, 2019
A question from listener Blake–do we use Anki or Brainscape for studying–led to a discussion of the various tools and techniques Aline Sandouk (MD/PhD student), Nick Lind, Madeline Cusimano, and Mason LaMarche (all M2s) use to shove medical knowledge into their brains.
And the co-hosts get some practice with their patient communication skills using questions posed by Yahoo! Answers users.
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Turkey, Telomerase, and Time-Turning Trauma Treatment
Nov 28, 2019
FYI, there’s new merch for charity (stickers!) at at theshortcoat.com/store! Also, It’s Thanksgiving Day in the United States of America, and as we ‘muricans collapse on our sofas replete with turkey with all the trimmings, let us give thanks that M1s Nathen Spitz and Morgan Kennedy, and MD/PhD student Aline Sandouk are here to discuss auto brewery syndrome (or how to be a guilt-free Thanksgiving Day day-drinker if you want your life ruined for years by a real zebra of an illness).
And the gang tries to string together arbitrary medical words into illnesses and breakthrough treatments.
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Did anyone in your family embarrass or annoy you on Thanksgiving? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. Do all three!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Microaggressions: preparing to experience, witness, and commit them
Nov 21, 2019
Good intentions are everywhere. Good behavior…well, that’s more complicated. Such is the case with microaggressions, the term coined by Harvard University psychiatrist Chester Pierce in 1970 to describe minor yet hurtful comments. Pierce’s original definition encompassed statements aimed at African Americans, but of course one can accidentally or purposefully put down any minority individual–women, LGBTQ+ individuals, non-white ethnicities, and more.
Unfortunately, nearly 50 years after Dr. Pierce proposed the term, microaggressions are still a thing. Dave admits to his sins, and M1s Sahaanna Arumagam and Nathen Spitz, along with SCP intern Joel Horne discuss how to prepare for the inevitability of witnessing, experiencing, and committing microaggressions.
Plus, can this week’s co-hosts diagnose their weird patients’ quirks?
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
How to ADHD in Med School
Nov 07, 2019
We on The Short Coat Podcast like to encourage people to follow their med school dreams in spite of whatever apparent obstacles stand in the way. So when we found out that Jessica McCabe, host of the popular YouTube channel How to ADHD, was coming to the University of Iowa, we were excited to get her on the show. And with co-hosts Irene Morcuende and LA–both successful medical students and ADHD brains–on hand along with CCOM learning specialist Chia-Wen Moon to prove that this obstacle can be just another bump in the road. You may be surprised to hear how those with ADHD brains–and the groups they work in–can actually benefit from their atypical thought processes.
But what kinds of effects does ADHD have in med school? What techniques have worked for LA, Jessica, and Irene? How do relationships suffer and flourish when one of you has ADHD? What does a learning specialist do? And how can medical schools support its students who need help? All questions we discuss for you, Short Coats!
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We Want to Hear From You
Do you have ADHD? What about a learning disability? What are you struggling with, and who or what has helped you? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Today’s show features multiple screams, so don’t freak out. Because it’s Halloweeeeeeeen! Co-hosts Hillary O’Brien, Jenna Johnson, Elizabeth Shirazi, and newbie Erica Noyes (all M1s) tell their scary med student stories for your entertainment. And Short Coat MD Wannabe has a serious question about her future, as her post-bacc program is proving harder than expected.
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What’s the scariest thing to ever happen to you? Call us at 347-SHORTCT to tell us in your own words!
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Standing Out by Presenting at Conferences
Oct 24, 2019
Second year students Abby Fyfe, Mason LaMarche, and Madeline Cusimano offer their advice to first-year Morgan Kennedy, who confesses that she’s feeling the burn of being an M1. And Mason discusses the opportunities he’s had to present his undergraduate work at conferences, a good way to stand out from other pre-medical applicants. And it doesn’t have to be bench or clinical science, either, as Mason demonstrates.
Plus, Dave pretends to be a medical educator with a game he calls MegaBattle. Can his co-hosts help their professors defeat a variety of creatures with strange powers?
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This Week in Medical News
A Venezuelan telenovela is being chopped up and overdubbed to deliver public health messages in Africa. Migrant children detained in the US are battling preventable diseases as Customs and Border Patrol throws up their hands at the complexity of offering vaccinations to that population. And a childhood cancer drug–the only on that exists–is in short supply in the US because it’s hard for Pfizer to turn a profit on it.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Choose a Specialty, Choose a Lifestyle: Factors We Consider
Oct 17, 2019
Short Coat Scribbleson Wordsonpaper (not his real name) wrote a paper for one of his classes, and was told it’d be worth putting it out there for publication. But where, and how? So we asked Writing and Humanities Program Director (and SCP exec producer) Cate Dicharry to give some guidance. Scribbleson’s second question, about the lifestyle factors that medical students weigh when making a specialty choice, was a great one for co-hosts Mackenzie Walhof, Miranda Schene, and Abby Fyfe to dig into.
And Dave puts on his ten-gallon perfesser hat, offering up a pop quiz on the 2019 Ig Nobel prize winners.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
A Stitch In Time Saves Swine.
Oct 10, 2019
Two questions this week from Short Coats! Listener Luis wrote in to ask what books co-hosts Hillary O’Brien, Kylie Miller, Emma Barr and newbie Sahaana Arumugam consulted to find their paths. And Mia wrote to theshortcoats@gmail.com to find out more about MS/DO or MS/MD programs and what they look for in their applicants. And can we find patient-care uses for weird proverbs? No, we can’t. But it was fun to try.
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Fourth-year students David Rudolph and Chandini Reddi join co-hosts Brendan George and LJ Agistonelli to answer listener Krista’s question–a self-confessed “loud mouth” with radical thoughts about how she’d like to practice medicine one day. Can she bring those ideals to life, or will she be drummed out of medicine. Are there other, related careers that might allow her to achieve her goals even better? We’ve got you, Krista!
Plus, Dave asks David and Chandini what they learned from watching their Medical Student Performance Evaluation take shape before it gets sent off to residency programs they’re applying to.
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Get to Know the Nurse, Save Yourself from Grief
Sep 26, 2019
Medicine is a team sport
Writing your residency application personal statement is easy! Photo by jenna.kaminsky
A cliche, but true. Because without the nurses (and other people) doing their jobs to help the doctor, the doctor can’t do nuthin’–no IVs, no regular BP checks, no comfortable patients, no monitoring while they’re home sleeping, no nothing. Listener Amber stops by to ask what med students learn about nurses and how to work with them. M4s Hillary O’Brien and Kylie Miller and new M1 co-hosts Jessica De Haan and Greta Becker are happy to help, because nurses are the spine and a big portion of the central nervous system of medicine. And Fifi Trixiebell returns, craving med school war stories. Also, Hillary and Kylie discuss the residency personal statements they wrote and where they sought help.
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Terms and Conditions Apply
Sep 19, 2019
Mothers Want To Know
Co-host and MD/PhD student Miranda Schene is a woman who has obviously been raised well. So when her mother, Ginny, wrote to theshortcoats@gmail.com asking about the surprises med school had in store for this week’s gang, Dave–who also loves his mother–couldn’t very well say no! M1 Nathen Spitz and M2 Jenna Mullins, along with new co-host M1 Bryn Myers join in to give Mama Ginny the deets.
Plus Dave asks if his co-hosts can find and supply doctors’ testimonials for some As-Seen-On-TV products.
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What are your favorite case studies? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. Dave can’t get enough!
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Medicine Has a DARK Past
Sep 12, 2019
Some of the most important contributions to knowledge have come at a terrible price
The BBC featured a story on their site about an anatomy atlas that was created by a Nazi doctor, and the images within are those of hundreds of dissected political prisoners. The very conditions in Hitler’s concentration camps may have been among the reasons why these illustrations are so detailed. It is a terrible piece of work. This book, now out of print for decades, is still on the shelves of surgeons and consulted (if rather furtively) when they run out of other options. But new co-hosts Morgan Kennedy, Nathen Spitz, Margurite Jakubiak, along with M2 Madeline Cusimano, have to ask–can its vast utility outweigh it’s evil origins? Short Coats, we’d love to hear your thoughts.
Plus the gang visits Yahoo! Answers to practice their patient-communication skills, sort of.
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This Week in Medical News
Pharmaceutical giants Johnson & Johnson and Purdue Pharma were both in the news recently as opioid manufacturers who will be paying millions for their roles in the opioid epidemic. And a study suggests intermittent fasting (a practice in some religions but also a method of dieting) may be effective at limiting inflammation for rheumatoid arthritis patients.
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Elders Need Docs Who Understand Them (ft. Louise Aronson, MD)
Sep 05, 2019
Elders are not just sickly adults.
Louise Aronson, MD, author of Elderhood.
Ours is an aging society, and as the populations skews older, medicine has begun to realize that treating elder patients isn’t the same as treating adults or children. Treating the conditions of older people means that clinicians have to understand them in ways that go beyond diseases and drugs. Hence, the science of geriatrics. Dr. Louise Aronson is a geriatrician and the author of Elderhood: Redefining Aging, Transforming Medicine, Reimagining Life (Bloomsbury 2019). It’s a beautifully written book the focuses on the stories of our elders and what they can teach us about their needs both biological and psychological. Among the things co-hosts Miranda Schene, Emma Barr, Mason LaMarche and Nick Lind learned:
Older people respond in unpredictable ways to medications. Often the work of a geriatrician is to ‘deprescribe’ medicines that are hurting them.
Never undervalue the things that are important to elders just because they aren’t medicines or procedures. If the patient needs something from their doctor that increases their success in life, then it’s important.
Recognizing when you as a doctor are doing things for you, vs. when you’re doing things for your patient is important.
Older people are no longer beyond help simply due to age. With the right training and an in-depth understanding of the science of aging, huge gains can be made in treating the serious disorders of elderhood.
American medicine’s concept of “the Good Death” (aka, dying at home surrounded by loved ones) isn’t a given for elders. Understanding what elders want, rather than subscribing to some monolithic idea, is important.
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Slipping On The Short Coat
Aug 29, 2019
The first step in med school
The Carver College of Medicine held its 25th annual White Coat Ceremony at Hancher Auditorium for first-year students beginning their medical education at Iowa on Friday, August 16, 2019
Ceremonies are important. If you’re like Dave, you think they’re a bit of a pain–you have to dress up and keep a straight face. But as a bit of (lengthy) symbolism, they do have their place, and the White Coat Ceremony is no exception. Maddie Mix and Aline Sandouk reflect on their White Coat Ceremonies and what it meant to them to be standing up in front of those they admired, respected, and loved, and promised to essentially selflessly give their lives to medicine in return for admiration, respect, and love of their own.
Of course, since Aline got kicked out of Cedar Rapids’ Paramount Theater for using her cell phone by a very angry usher, I guess that respect and love she can expect from others will only go so far. It makes a good story, though, and was totally offset by a bit of feedback she got from a listener. Remember–you can send questions or feedback to theshortcoats@gmail.com! We love it!
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As we begin the next admissions cycle, we offer free advice! How can we help? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Think Ahead to Save Your Soul
Aug 22, 2019
Why med students should think ahead about their response to unethical requests
Brandon Bacalzo and Angeline Vanle join the team as incoming medical students. Luckily for them they have the chance to put questions about med school to M2 Nick Lind and M3 Brady Campbell, including how to find the new study habits they’ll need to succeed.
Ethical objections to a controversial practice in medical education have been simmering for a while, so we discuss how medical students should prepare for potential dilemmas that may occur during their training. And Dave is snared by clickbait yet again–because who wouldn’t want to know more about how tickling elders could keep them young? And are there other kinds of stimulation we should study to cure disease?
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Cracking Open the Firehose
Aug 15, 2019
A select group of students is introduced to med ed
For those who have been out of the student game for a while, or who feel they need a little extra time to get acclimated to the fast pace of medical education, there are programs like our Intro to Medical Education at Iowa. Whatever an individual school calls it, these programs can act as a bridge between your life before med school to the rigours of learning medicine. On this episode that Dave forgot to release a while back because he went on vacation, we meet pre-M1s in our program, Nicole Lacina, Timothy Morris, and Alec James. They and their teaching assistant, regular co-host Jacob Chrestensen are here to have some fun and describe what it’s like to crack the firehose with this program instead of taking it full in the face.
Plus, Dave’s unreasonable susceptibility to clickbait leads him to make up a new game. Can the co-hosts get him to click on their article with their crazy headlines? Yes. Yes, they can.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Recess Rehash: Advice for your first clinicals: slow your roll.
Aug 08, 2019
[Dave’s vacation continues, so here’s a rerun to keep you occupied. New show next week!]
Can you trust MSAR?
When listener Caven wrote in asking why CCOM graduates don’t include hardly any specialists and why they all seemed to be going into primary care, Dave was puzzled. While it’s true that a state school like ours, serving a rural part of the country, emphasizes primary care, he knew that not ‘everyone’ goes into primary care. On further questioning, it turns out Caven’s info came from the Medical School Application Requirements (MSAR) tool on the AAMC website! What was going on? Dave sought help from his friends in Admissions, and it turns out that MSAR doesn’t tell the whole story…and aspiring med students have to dig deeper.
Also, Dave asks his co-hosts Matt Wilson and Tony Mai, both rising M4s, to give their advice for those starting clinical rotations. And they help Aline Sandouk and LJ Agostinelli answer some of Yahoo! Answers most probing health questions.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Recess Rehash: Here’s Vomit In Your Eyes
Aug 03, 2019
[Dave’s out of town this week, so enjoy this rerun!]
Admissions counselor Megan Kosovski joins the fun to help LJ Agostinelli, Aline Sandouk, and new co-host Armin Avdic answer some listener questions. Claire, for instance, wants to know if she needs to quit her job as a radiation tech to fulfill pre-med requirements like shadowing and volunteering. And Elizabeth wants to know what colleges typically do when personal difficulties arise between one’s peers and mentors.
Plus, Dave satisfies his pretensions to be a medical educator by giving the crew a pop quiz. Can they discern which strange research project is the actual strange research project and not one Dave made up?
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This Week in Medical News
The AAMC offers insight into a ‘new’ trend in medical education: the three-year fast-track MD degree program. It’s been tried before in times of shortages…is the time right to roll it out again to address physician shortages and high student debt?
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The Short Coats offer free advice! Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com! We’ll try to help!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Millennials may be changing healthcare (ft. Martin Makary, MD)
Jul 25, 2019
Continuing our recent discussion on the price of healthcare in the United States, on this episode we talk with Dr. Martin Makary. Dr. Makary is a surgeon at Johns Hopkins, a best-selling author, and a health policy expert. Dr. Makary’s latest book entitled The Price We Pay: What Broke American Health Care–and How to Fix It, is due out in September. We were so glad to talk with him, because it’s all-too-easy to be jaded about the ‘business’ of healthcare when one in five Americans are in collections over healthcare debt. But Dr. Makary combines outrage at the market forces that have created a used-car-lot sales environment with optimism about healthcare’s future prospects for transparency and fairness. Things are changing, he says! Interestingly, the medical students doing research with him–pouring their hearts, souls, and minds into it–have helped to create that sense of optimism in him. In other words, millennials may be saving American healthcare even as they’re killing the napkin and real estate industries.
On top of all that, while The Price We Pay is an indictment of the insurance and billing practices that hinder the work of doctors and the healing of patients, the book is also a guidebook to the things that can and are being done to restore medicine’s mission.
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I’m looking at you, millennials: what do you think? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. Do all three!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Recess Rehash: Your Romance Could End In Tears, But It Doesn’t Have To!
Jul 18, 2019
Your Relationship Can Endure Med School…If You Plan Ahead.
[It’s summer, and the living is easy. In other words, we’re taking a break this week, so enjoy this recent episode instead of a new one!]
We’re devoting this episode to the perils of love between med students and their non-medical partners. Despite the clickbait title (don’t hate the player, hate the game), it isn’t destined to end badly! It just takes lots and lots of patience, communication, and sacrifice, not to mention a plan. Kelsey Adler, Madeline Slater, Terry Hayes, and new co-host Chris Schanbacher–all married or in committed relationships with people who aren’t medical learners–are ready to offer an anonymous listener advice on keeping love alive with her soon-to-be med student. Plus, we talk about how med students socialize, how “their persons” can join in some of the more fun bits, and what changes significant others can expect to change about their relationships.
To cap off their hard-earned words of wisdom, Dave decided to see how close his co-hosts and their “persons” really are, with a bit of fun we’re calling The NewlyMed Game. Will each couples’ answers to Dave’s questions agree? Will their loving relationships dissolve in acrimony when they disagree? That’s a chance Dave’s willing to take!
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The Mysteries of the Cost of Healthcare ft. Dan Weissmann
Jul 11, 2019
An Arm and a Leg
Dan Weissmann is a former NPR journalist who was interested in the crazy world of healthcare costs in America. He’d suggested to his former bosses that he start covering people’s stories of dealing with their medical care and it’s often unpredictably wallet-sucking expenses, reasoning that the subject is one we all can relate to. Plus, he though, it’s a damn important topic with political, economic, and personal implications. Unfortunately, it wasn’t the story he’d been employed to tell, so he back-burnered the idea.
Until one day he decided to leave radio and strike out on his own. As Dan put it to co-hosts Aline Sandouk, Laura Quast, and Dr. John Pienta, suddenly that story was very personal. After all, he didn’t have health insurance through an employer anymore, and he found it difficult to even make a decision on what insurance to buy since that industry (and its collaborators in healthcare) makes choosing intentionally difficult by not supplying information we usually rely on to make purchasing choices. So he started his new job, one he created for himself, a podcast he named An Arm and a Leg. Now in its second season, the show explores the topsy-turvy world of paying for health, using the stories of real people. Those people are incredibly easy to find, too, because they are our friends, neighbors, relatives, acquaintances, strangers, men, women, children…all of us are victims. If we want to fix it, Dan’s here to say that our best hope is listen to and understand these stories, because we’re all in this mess together.
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This Week in Medical News
This week, president Donald Trump signed an executive order that would require insurance companies, hospitals, and doctors to give patients more info about the prices they’ll pay for healthcare…but some say he have consulted with Danish cement manufacturers? And Senator and presidential candidate Bernie Sanders uses a puzzling figure to support his signature campaign issue of “Medicare-for-all”…a figure that Politifact and Kaiser Health News isn’t so positive about.
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What stories have you heard about the damage caused by spiraling and opaque healthcare costs? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. Do all three!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Recess Rehash: Tests, Tact, and Turpentine
Jul 04, 2019
Everyone gets anxious about tests. And med school features a lot of tests.
[Dave’s on vacation, so here’s a rerun for ya.]
The news that students at Oregon Health and Science University will now be subject to ‘compassion tests‘ in order to graduate got Dave thinking about test anxiety. As schools pile on the examinations, how do students deal with the stress? Dabin Choi, Gabe Conley, Claire Casteneda, and Erik Kneller discuss meditation, sleep, prayer, and eating habits that keep them from letting the fear derail them.
Also in the news, a GQ interview with comedian and actress Tiffany Haddish espouses an unusual cure-all the government doesn’t want us to know about: a teaspoon of turpentine. Can this week’s co-hosts do her one better by convincing Dave that the effects of various other household and industrial chemicals are government-suppressed remedies?
This Week in Medical News
Why can’t Dave stop himself from succumbing to the lure of science’s newest form of clickbait: the ‘we-found-a-new-organ’ article? One man’s sexually transmitted disease clearly made the BBC’s headline editor clap his hands together with a gleeful tactlessness.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Advice for your first clinicals: slow your roll.
Jun 27, 2019
Can you trust MSAR?
When listener Caven wrote in asking why CCOM graduates don’t include hardly any specialists and why they all seemed to be going into primary care, Dave was puzzled. While it’s true that a state school like ours, serving a rural part of the country, emphasizes primary care, he knew that not ‘everyone’ goes into primary care. On further questioning, it turns out Caven’s info came from the Medical School Application Requirements (MSAR) tool on the AAMC website! What was going on? Dave sought help from his friends in Admissions, and it turns out that MSAR doesn’t tell the whole story…and aspiring med students have to dig deeper.
Also, Dave asks his co-hosts Matt Wilson and Tony Mai, both rising M4s, to give their advice for those starting clinical rotations. And they help Aline Sandouk and LJ Agostinelli answer some of Yahoo! Answers most probing health questions.
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What’s questions can we answer for you? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
The thing about conspiracies that’s hard to combat is that there is sometimes a kernel of truth in them that makes them more believable. Dave found some unfortunate ‘facts’ about medicine and doctors on a random website , and asked Miranda Schene, Kyle Kinder, Nick Lind, and Dr. John Pienta not to refute them, but to discuss the little nugget of truthiness they’re based on. Warning: in the end, we didn’t bother to refute them–we figured y’all are learned enough to know why they’re truthy-but-not-true! Let us know if we’re wrong about that!
And Dave asks his co-hosts if they can find the true research title among the truthy garbage titles he made up.
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A new class of MD students is getting ready to begin at med schools all over the country. What questions do you have about med school? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. Do all three!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
How Med Students Learn about Cultural Competency
Jun 13, 2019
Cultural competency is a tough thing to teach, but so important. Today’s physician (and med students!) encounter patients from wide range of backgrounds, any of which could come into play in a patient-provider interaction. In this episode, Brent asks how med students learn about the nuances that come with treating people of different backgrounds, from ethnicity to gender to religion to disability. Aline Sandouk and Brady Campbell consider the question and offer their experiences.
And Brady, who’s co-hosting on the eve of leaving CCOM for a year-long Masters in Public Health program at Hopkins, talks about why he’s pursuing a whole ‘nother degree and why he’s decided Hopkins is the right place for that given that we have a lovely Public Health school right next door.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Recess Rehash: What Med Schools Miss Out On Because of “Technical Standards”
Jun 06, 2019
[We took a break last week, so here’s a rerun in case you missed it!]
Dr. Marley Doyle is a reproductive psychiatrist at the University of Nebraska Medical Center. She’s also “legally blind”, with 20/400 vision. She struggled through medical school just like all med students, but with that additional complication. She made it, however, and her discussion with Aditi Patel and Irisa Mahaparn gives some clues as to why. First, her disability was invisible which made it easy for people to assume that she wasn’t disabled. And second, she was naive to the fact that she could ask for help. In other words, she stumbled through it all and came out the other side without having been a “burden” for her school. Years later, she acknowledges that she could have asked for more help.
We also discuss the technical standards that most schools have in place to define what a student physician should be able to do physically, intellectually, and emotionally to succeed in school. These standards, however, often seem to be written with a stereotypical disabled person in mind, one who cannot possible succeed because of their disability, and thus should not be in medical school. We discuss the concept of “assumed competence” which, as recent CCOM guest lecturer Dr. Oluwaferanmi Okanlami pointed out, allows people with disabilities to show they are able to fulfill their duties as opposed to assuming they cannot. And we discuss the AAMC’s recent first-of-its-kind report “Accessibility, Inclusion, and Action in Medical Education Lived Experiences of Learners and Physicians With Disabilities,” which brought to light the inconsistent policies and procedures for, lack of support of, and lack of awareness many schools have of their legal obligations under the law towards students with disabilities. And we talk about why med schools that don’t encourage disabled people to apply are missing out on a piece of the diversity puzzle.
Plus, Dr. Doyle helps answer a listener who is lucky enough to have several med school acceptances, and wants to know how to decide among them! Lucky you, ‘Anxious Premed!’ Don’t worry, we can help.
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Are you living with a disability and discouraged about your med school plans? Are you in medical school, disabled, and have some advice to offer? Tell us about it by calling 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Failure is an Option…When You Learn From It.
May 30, 2019
We’re clearing out the backlog of listener questions–thank you listeners for so many fun ideas to talk about! Cailin had her med school dreams ‘crushed’ in college when the science prereqs turned out to be too intense. She’s now considering an MPH, but she hasn’t entirely given up on becoming an MD. Aline Sandouk, Irisa Mahaparn, Levi Endelman, and Dr. John Pienta are on board to say it’s not really a problem, Cailin…as long as you can be realistic about the timeline.
And Melvin Piebags (not his real name) sent in a series of questions: how do we cope with failure? Is anatomy lab a grim place to be? How do we cope with difficult patients and colleagues? We’re answering them all on this episode.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
The Laws that are Shrinking the Telomeres of OB/Gyn Residents
May 23, 2019
Admissions counselor Megan Kosovski joins Aline Sandouk, Emma Barr, Nick Lind, and Hannah Van Ert for this show, because we had a listener question from a Canadian listener not-named “Molson.” What’s it like, Molson wanted to know, for a Canadian to apply to medical school in the US, which he’s considering doing since Canadian schools are so few and the odds are so low. Molson, pull the tab on that brewski and we’ll get you sorted.
As Executive Producer Jason Lewis is leaving us for greener pastures, Dave is preparing to take part in interviewing his replacement. Which means that he’s gotta rev up his BS detector so he can help select the right person. With that in mind, can his co-hosts detect the BS or truth found within the often ridiculous claims found Snopes.com?
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How do you feel about the recent anti-abortion bills? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. Do all three!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
[Once again, our charitable mission is supported in this episode by CommonBond. Thank you, CommonBond!!!]
Former listener Cash commented on Facebook that he doesn’t listen any more because of our political comments. So on today’s show, Aline Sandouk, Rob Humble, Irisa Mahaparn, and Admissions Counselor Kate McKenzie help Dave process Cash’s feedback. Should medical students, physicians, and scientists express themselves on political issues or should they remain publicly neutral? Moreover, with medicine and science having become among the hottest topics in politics, is there an actual obligation to take a stand?
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Marcia’s Measley Message Makes Mistaken Moms Mad
May 09, 2019
Maureen McCormick as Marcia Brady
Our charitable mission is supported in this episode by CommonBond. Be sure to pay them a visit to learn more about their new medical school loan, and tell ’em we sent you!
Emma Barr, Miranda Schene, Allison Klimesh, and new co-host Jenna Mullins are all first-years at the Carver College of Medicine. As our co-hosts this time, they’re happy to help answer listener questions! For instance, Tim wrote to us asking about the disadvantaged applicant designation on the med school application, saying he’s hesitant to apply it to himself though on paper he might fit that description. And Mike wrote in to clarify some things about three-year MD degree programs, but he’s also wondering if he might be a good fit for an accelerated path.
This week in medical news, actor Maureen McCormick claps back at anti-vaxxers who are using an episode of the 1960s sitcom The Brady Bunch, which she starred in as Marcia Brady,to support their argument that measles is not that big of a deal.
Which got Dave thinking about the medical dramas of his youth (and beyond), specifically their theme songs. Can his co-hosts Name Those Med Tunes?
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Our charitable mission is supported in this episode by CommonBond. Be sure to pay them a visit to learn more about their new medical school loan, and tell ’em we sent you!
Admissions counselor Megan Kosovski joins the fun to help LJ Agostinelli, Aline Sandouk, and new co-host Armin Avdic answer some listener questions. Claire, for instance, wants to know if she needs to quit her job as a radiation tech to fulfill pre-med requirements like shadowing and volunteering. And Elizabeth wants to know what colleges typically do when personal difficulties arise between one’s peers and mentors.
Plus, Dave satisfies his pretensions to be a medical educator by giving the crew a pop quiz. Can they discern which strange research project is the actual strange research project and not one Dave made up?
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This Week in Medical News
The AAMC offers insight into a ‘new’ trend in medical education: the three-year fast-track MD degree program. It’s been tried before in times of shortages…is the time right to roll it out again to address physician shortages and high student debt?
We Want to Hear From You
The Short Coats offer free advice! Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com! We’ll try to help!
We need validation. Leave a review: iTunes
The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Brown Girl, White Coat, ft. Saie Joshi
Apr 25, 2019
Saie Joshi is a first-year med student at Baylor, but that’s not all she is. She’s got a beautiful singing voice and a busy schedule advising med school hopefuls from her tight-knit Indian-American community. And, of course, as she’s an up-and-coming podcaster we were excited to have her on as a guest co-host. Aline Sandouk, Issac Schwantes, and Rob Humble spoke with Saie about her show Brown Girl White Coat, and about ZDoggMD’s recent reflection on moral injury among physicians and healthcare providers.
Fittingly, we had a question from listener Jesse about his path forward after a bad first semester lead to a low graduating GPA. Luckily Saie was on hand to help.
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This Week in Medical News
Scientists at Yale have found a way to partially re-start the brains of pigs hours after they were slaughtered, causing ethicists to clutch their inhalers. The Feds rounded up more than 60 people including doctors and pharmacists in Appalachia charging them with opioid offences and fraud. And a cure for bubble boy syndrome using HIV has changed the lives of 10 infants barring unknown future side effects.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
A Tinkle In Our Pants and A Song In Our Hearts
Apr 18, 2019
This week, with help from LJ Agostinelli, Irisa Mahaparn, and new co-host Fili Bogdanic, Dave offers listener Karstan some advice for med students (and others) who want to start a podcast. It’s a worthwhile activity, without question, for discovering and understanding the field you’re growing into, provided you can find the time!
Listener Coleman writes in to find out what kind of plan we’d suggest having for visiting medical schools. Dave has ideas…but to his surprise his co-hosts weren’t even sure pre-interview visits were necessary! Vive la difference!
And we once again plumb the depths of Yahoo! Answers for some real-life medical questions, the excuse Dave always gives for doing this to his co-hosts.
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This Week in Medical News
To Dave’s relief, scientists have found that declines in working memory can be temporarily reversed using transcranial alternating-current stimulation, but to his eternal dismay, his co-hosts always…uh, the always…wait, what was I writing about?
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Bonus: Tropical Medicine is Saving the World, ft. Karen Goraleski
Apr 16, 2019
The American Society of Tropical Medicine and Hygiene.
The ASTMH is a sprawling organization, and for good reason. As CEO Karen Goraleski says, it’s a big tent. And with all the disciplines needed to fight emerging infectious diseases like Leishmaniasis and other neglected tropical diseases, from veterinary medicine to ecology to entomology to logistics–it’s no wonder.
With University of Iowa College of Public Health epidemiology student Kurayi Mahachi, this bonus episode explores the job of eliminating the world’s most difficult to treat diseases–infectious or otherwise–and why Americans must not shrug it off as someone else’s problem but join the fight.
You care about others, or you wouldn’t be into this medicine thing. Our #merchforgood program lets you to give to our charity of the semester and get something for yourself at the same time!
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We offer free advice! Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. We’ll answer your questions or find someone who can!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Your Romance Could End In Tears, But It Doesn’t Have To!
Apr 11, 2019
Your Relationship Can Endure Med School…If You Plan Ahead.
We’re devoting this episode to the perils of love between med students and their non-medical partners. Despite the clickbait title (don’t hate the player, hate the game), it isn’t destined to end badly! It just takes lots and lots of patience, communication, and sacrifice, not to mention a plan. Kelsey Adler, Madeline Slater, Terry Hayes, and new co-host Chris Schanbacher–all married or in committed relationships with people who aren’t medical learners–are ready to offer an anonymous listener advice on keeping love alive with her soon-to-be med student. Plus, we talk about how med students socialize, how “their persons” can join in some of the more fun bits, and what changes significant others can expect to change about their relationships.
To cap off their hard-earned words of wisdom, Dave decided to see how close his co-hosts and their “persons” really are, with a bit of fun we’re calling The NewlyMed Game. Will each couples’ answers to Dave’s questions agree? Will their loving relationships dissolve in acrimony when they disagree? That’s a chance Dave’s willing to take!
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Are you dating a medical student? What advice do you have for others? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Dr. Marley Doyle is a reproductive psychiatrist at the University of Nebraska Medical Center. She’s also “legally blind”, with 20/400 vision. She struggled through medical school just like all med students, but with that additional complication. She made it, however, and her discussion with Aditi Patel and Irisa Mahaparn gives some clues as to why. First, her disability was invisible which made it easy for people to assume that she wasn’t disabled. And second, she was naive to the fact that she could ask for help. In other words, she stumbled through it all and came out the other side without having been a “burden” for her school. Years later, she acknowledges that she could have asked for more help.
We also discuss the technical standards that most schools have in place to define what a student physician should be able to do physically, intellectually, and emotionally to succeed in school. These standards, however, often seem to be written with a stereotypical disabled person in mind, one who cannot possible succeed because of their disability, and thus should not be in medical school. We discuss the concept of “assumed competence” which, as recent CCOM guest lecturer Dr. Oluwaferanmi Okanlami pointed out, allows people with disabilities to show they are able to fulfill their duties as opposed to assuming they cannot. And we discuss the AAMC’s recent first-of-its-kind report “Accessibility, Inclusion, and Action in Medical Education Lived Experiences of Learners and Physicians With Disabilities,” which brought to light the inconsistent policies and procedures for, lack of support of, and lack of awareness many schools have of their legal obligations under the law towards students with disabilities. And we talk about why med schools that don’t encourage disabled people to apply are missing out on a piece of the diversity puzzle.
Plus, Dr. Doyle helps answer a listener who is lucky enough to have several med school acceptances, and wants to know how to decide among them! Lucky you, ‘Anxious Premed!’ Don’t worry, we can help.
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Are you living with a disability and discouraged about your med school plans? Are you in medical school, disabled, and have some advice to offer? Tell us about it by calling 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Get In Next Time: Our Top Recommendations For Fixing Your Application!
Mar 28, 2019
Med school admissions is a numbers game. Here’s how to increase your chances for the next time.
If you got only rejection letters this application season, you might be thinking your dreams of attending med school are dead. Well, pick yourself up off the ground, soldier, it’s not over yet because you can apply again. But don’t go throwing good money and time away by reapplying without taking a close, honest look at what your application was missing. Amy A’Hearn, our admissions assistant director, visited to discuss what you should think about when re-evaluating your competitiveness, with the help of Aline Sandouk and Irisa Mahapan. Don’t give up…find out what Amy’s top recommendations are, and get your dream back on track!
Plus we ask the most important question of all–why do men roll up their pants legs?
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This Week in Medical News
Match week was great for us here at UI as our students did better than the national average for finding a job after med school. But all was not perfect this year, as during the Supplemental Offer and Acceptance Program (SOAP), the servers crashed denying unmatched residency programs and applicants critical time to do the same. In the end, it all worked out…but it was a stressful time for all–but from our viewpoint, especially for SOAPing students! And it isn’t the first time, either.
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Share your stories–anonymously, if you like–of your rejections and how you fixed it! Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Invent the Future of Medicine, ft. Matthew Howard, MD
Mar 21, 2019
See a problem, solve a problem
Matthew Howard, MD. Professor, Department of Neurosurgery Chair and DEO, John C. VanGilder Chair in Neurosurgery
Think of an inventor. What comes to mind? The quirky lone genius, coming up with a blockbuster device that will save the world? The Avengers‘ Tony Stark in a cave throwing together a functional exosuit from scrap metal? Back to the Future’s Doc Emmet Brown crying “1.21 jigawatts?!” and then immediately coming up with the perfect solution?
Or is it a person like neurosurgeon Matthew Howard, toiling away year after year alongside a team of trusted experts, all working together to take an idea–slowly–from problem to concept to prototypes to product to FDA approval to market to patient? Dr. Howard was recently named the University of Iowa’s first ever National Academy of Inventors fellow, with 34 patents in his portfolio, so we wanted to take a look at yet another amazing aspect of medicine: the people who define and then create solutions that make the surgical world go ’round. Some of his inventions succeed–including a way to guide catheters to their destinations using magnetic fields–while others –like the “shunt scissors” he discusses–are waiting to set the surgical world on fire. But to Dr. Howard it’s just a good time.
Also, Dave gives the crew–Aline Sandouk, Miranda Schene, Hannah Van Ert, and Maddie Mix–a pop quiz to see if they can guess the invention from some weird patents. Some of the quiz’s incorrect answers could be money makers, so feel free to patent them and make a fortune.
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Have you ever had an idea for something and thought, I should patent that? Like that time Dave thought up an ejection seat for motorcycles? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com and tell us about it.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Why Med Students Join Medical Societies
Mar 14, 2019
Medical Societies and Associations: Are they Useful for Students?
Listener Zachary wrote to theshortcoats@gmail.com to ask whether it’s useful for students to join medical associations and societies such as the AMA, ACOG, or AAP. Co-hosts Aline Sandouk, Laura Quast, Hillary O’Brien, and newbie Sophie Williams-Perez offer some things they find useful about their memberships, including staying informed about political positions and the latest research in their fields, as well as for understanding what it means to be a physician.
Listener Oscar about had a heart attack when he read how much money the Carver College of Medicine thinks a first-semester student should budget for additional expenses (aside from tuition and living expenses). So we asked Financial Aid Counselor Chris Roling to help, and it turns out that this area of the med student budget is real squishy.
Plus, Dave has some mouth spreaders to use up, so he makes his co-hosts deliver made-up diagnoses to fictitious patients with them. Because that’s educational.
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Are you a member of a medical society or organization? What do you get out of membership? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
As CCOM’s second-look day (which we call Get Acquainted Day) approaches, Aline Sandouk, LJ Agostinelli, Miranda Schene, and Danial Syed discuss the benefits–to both the student and the school–of taking a second look at the schools they’ve been admitted to. And listener Caven wants us to talk about our fantasy gap years. Can our co-hosts articulate the benefits of gap year jobs that Dave made up for them? Spoiler–they sure can.
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If you could do anything you want–and you can–what would you do during your gap year? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. Do all three!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Is Your Previous Career A Strike Against You?
Feb 28, 2019
Admissions committees care most about what you got out of your experiences, less about what exactly they were.
Here’s a question we get often, in one form or another: will [some aspect of my life to date] hurt my chances for getting into medical school? Kyle Kinder, Irisa Mahaparn, Aline Sandouk, and Hanna Van Ert are here to reassure listener Rachel that, despite her background in medical malpractice law, she’s going to be fine…if she can articulate what she took away from that part of her life.
Listener Fifi Trixiebell, who you may recall set off the keto wars of 2018 which ultimately led Dave to declare a moratorium on diet related topics, wrote in to apologize (no need, Fifi), and also point out that Iowa is the most America of the states. Can the co-hosts discern which other states have achieved total-Murica status based on their rankings for bald eagles, fast food, and astronauts?
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Do you need advice? We give it out, whether it’s related to med school or not? Call in your pleas for help to 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
What Research Means for Residency Applications
Feb 21, 2019
Does research mean a whole lot when applying to residency?
Listener Nathan called in to the SCP Hotline at 347-SHORTCT to ask how research works for medical students. Is it necessary? Is it recommended? How do you find research to do? Irisa Mahaparn, Miranda Schene, Emma Barr, and newcomer Nadiah Wabba are on hand to discuss the roles of research in med school, how it can help a residency applications, for which residency applications research is a recommended component, and how it all works.
Also, can the crew figure out what has been censored from medical stock photos? To play along, here’s the gallery:
[huge_it_gallery id=”133″]
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Is research important to you? Do you plan to do research in med school or residency? Let us know at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Dr. Mamdouh Aker: Palestinian doctor and human rights activist (Bonus Episode)
Feb 18, 2019
Mamdouh Aker
Dr. Mamdouh Aker is a very big deal in Palestine, the kind of man everyone knows and respects, and it’s easy to see why. He’s urology surgeon and the deputy chair of the Board of Trustees of Berzeit University in Palestine’s West Bank. Among the founders of the Mandela Institute for Political Prisoners and the Independent Commission for Human Rights, Dr. Aker was also a member of the Palestinian delegation to the Madrid Peace Conference and in the Palestinian-Israeli bilateral talks between 1991 and 1993. He’s also a member of several councils and committees focused on the health, education, and wellbeing of the Palestinian people. During his visit to the Carver College of Medicine he spoke to our students and faculty about the state of Palestinian healthcare. He was generous with his time, as he also sat down with med students Shakoora Sabree, Ossama Habu-Halawa, Jordan Harbaugh-Williams, and Joelle Friezen to discuss the topic. Our discussion was near the anniversary of his 45-day ordeal in the custody of Israeli security forces in the early 1990s because of his outspoken views that his Palestinian patients were prevented from receiving adequate healthcare.
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To this day, What are reactions to Dr. Aker’s stories? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. Do all three!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Listener Jen sent an email to theshortcoats@gmail.com asking M4 Irisa Mahaparn, and M1s Nick Lind and Madeline Slater about the doubts they’ve experienced in their journey through medical education. Oh, Jen. The doubts they have experienced! We discuss them, along with the sources of doubt and how they are learning to overcome them to achieve their goals. Also, we try to give listener Ryan some ideas about his genetics course assignment.
We also visit the worst place on the internet to get medical advice, Yahoo! Answers, and discover a potential new treatment for desert-based constipation. All it needs is a good clinical trial and a few not-squeamish human subjects!
This Week in Medical News
As the measles outbreaks in the northwestern US and elsewhere continue, Clark County in Washington has experienced a jump in vaccination rates of 500%, almost as if people are starting to trust science. Inventors at MIT and Harvard are both working on swallowable injectors, which sounds worse than it is. And is Wikipedia good enough for med schools to use it in some way? It depends, of course.
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What are your rejection stories? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. Do all three!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
MD/PhD admissions and Shadowing Strategies
Feb 07, 2019
Listener Renee writes in to ask Aditi Patel, Maddie Mix, Nick Lind, and guest Dr. John Pienta whether she can legitimately hope for admission to an MD/PhD program without a strong science background. Luckily, Maddie rolls MSTP style, so she helps us answer. Another listener, Sarah, wrote to us hoping for some suggestions on how to prepare and strategize for her physician shadowing experiences. And Ellen writes to give us some feedback on a recent episode.
What are your rejection stories? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. Do all three!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Doctor down under, or Medicine in ‘Merica?
Jan 31, 2019
This week, we’re winging it on SCP–life was a bit more complicated for Dave than usual–but we have some great questions to address from some non-US listeners. Nice to have confirmation that we have more than a couple of those! Luke from Australia wants to come to America, either to study medicine or after his Australian medical education is complete. Which should he choose, and what will he think of our Australian accents after he listens? And Justin, listening in the Philippines, wants to know what story our co-hosts tell themselves when they think about why they’re studying medicine. Justin Hababag, Aditi Patel, and Kylie Miller are on hand to discuss.
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What story do you tell yourself about your interest in medicine? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. Do all three!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Med School Hidden Costs, and Extracurricular Activities
Jan 24, 2019
Med School is Expensive…More Than You Know
But what’s this? Podcast merch? Dave has a special announcement, what we’re going to use the money for (it’s not for the show), and how you can get a special offer and help do some good at the same time.
Everybody knows about med school tuition. And then there’s the cost of student loans. But there’s so much more, and listener Richard wrote in to theshortcoats@gmail.com ask: what are the hidden costs of attending medical school? Luckily Dave has a crew of people on hand who’ve figured that out: Aline Sandouk, Nick Lind, Maddie Mix, and LJ Agostinelli. Get prepared with their list of things you need to spend money on, and a couple things you shouldn’t spend on. Another listener, Sarah, would like some idea of what kinds of extracurricular activities med students can get into, and how to find them. We got you, Sarah!
The Gates Foundation may be throwing it’s considerable weight and funding behind reducing maternal deaths in the US.
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What hidden costs of medical school did we miss? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. Do all three!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
The MD path or the PA path
Jan 17, 2019
When thinking about a career in medicine, those who are leaning towards getting an MD often consider the Physician Assistant path; and if they’re leaning towards a PA career they often consider the Medical Doctor path. On this show, PA students Steffanie Robertus and Terry Hayes join MD students Emma Barr and Katie Christel explore the similarities between their educational journeys, the exams they’ll take, the career paths, and the lifestyles they’ll enjoy. Then, Dave pits the two teams against each other in a fight to the death. Or was it a trivia contest?
Love or hate the Squatty Potty? Need advice? Have questions? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. Tell us all about it.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Don’t count on Public Service Loan Forgiveness
Jan 10, 2019
The Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program is Broken
Former co-host and now PM&R Doctor Cole Cheney returns for a discussion of what he’s discovered about the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program, which rewards careers in public service by forgiving student loans after 10 years of qualifying work. The first 11 years have passed since its inception, and you’ll never guess how many people have had their loans forgiven. Aline Sandouk, Dylan Todd, Brady Campbell, and financial aid counselor Chris Roling were on hand for a discussion of why you’ll want to have a backup plan to pay off your med school debt.
This Week in Medical News
A study looks at whether we’re ready for whole genome sequencing as a screening tool for newborn babies. We discuss whether teenagers are capable of withstanding the rigors of medical school. And an we explore the ‘confidence gap’ between men and women in medicine and whether it’s even important.
We Want to Hear From You
Are you a woman who has been counselled to lean in and act more confident? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. We’d love to hear from you!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
The Harsh Truths and Pleasant Realities of Med School
Jan 03, 2019
What? No sleep mask? No weighted blanket? No blackout shades? She’s a witch! Photo by C_Scott (Pixabay)
Happy New Year! With the holidays slowing down the pace of listener questions, Dave asks new co-host LJ Agostinelli and old hands Rob Humble and Hillary O’Brien to discuss the harsh truths and pleasant realities of studying medicine. Plus, Yahoo! Answers gets another visit, and manages to live up to Dave’s characterization of it as the saddest place on the internet.
We crave your questions! Leave a message at 347-SHORTCT, hit us up on the socials, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. Do all three!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
The Darkness Without: SAD in Med School
Dec 27, 2018
Madeline called to ask: it’s finals week and you’re stricken with seasonal depression–what’s a med student to do? We feel you, Madeline. Luckily, Aline Sandouk, Nick Lind, Derek Bradley, and Hillary O’Brien are ready to throw open the curtains on their ideas to help. And Jeannet-tello hit us up on our Instagram to find out what she should do about impostor syndrome.
Plus, Dave shares the recent video that UIHC Marketing and Communications unwisely allowed him to be in.
Are you nervous about starting med school? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. Share your fears!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Aline Sandouk discusses with her co-hosts the recent breakthrough in her research–which is pretty much that she’s experiencing the exact opposite of what PhD students fear, and that her research may just have a path forward. Whew! And while we couldn’t answer any listener questions this week–hang in there, Madeline and Tiana, you’re on the list!–we did answer anatomy questions asked with dental mouth spreaders in our mouths. Warning: this episode contains more than the usual amount saliva-based sounds.
Are you a compulsive licker? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. Do all three!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Genetically Engineered Babies, Medical Student Influencers
Dec 13, 2018
Are you buying what med student Instagrammers are selling?
Photo by MillionsAgainstMonsanto
You’ve probably noticed them. Cute med students hawking makeup and study guides on Instagram, posting photos of their fav study beverage, and composing carefully arranged shots of the contents of their backpacks, #medstudentlife #sponsored. Well, who can blame them–med school’s expensive! But is it a slippery slope, just waiting for some unsuspecting student to lose their ethical footing? Short Coats Sam Palmer, Miranda Schene and newbies Allie Fillman and Allison Klimesh take a look.
Would you be a med student influencer if you could? Why, and what limits would you set? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. Do all three!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
LGBT in Med School
Dec 06, 2018
What’s it like being a ‘sexual minority’ in medical school?
Short Coats Rob Humble and Claire Castaneda are joined by new co-hosts Mitchell Hooyer and Jeremy Sanchez to talk about their personal experiences as members of the LGBT community while studying medicine. They highlight Iowa’s surprisingly inclusive nature–among other things, Iowa was only the third state to legalize same-sex marriage. And they discuss the interesting origin of CCOM’s student group EqualMeds, as well as how LGBT topics are covered in med school curricula. We also answer the question: why is it even necessary to include specific discussion of these groups given that all people are the same on a cellular level?
Plus, we answer a listener question from Nikki: is it easy to make friends in medical school if you’re an introvert?
We Want to Hear From You
What have you experienced as an LGBT student or seen as an LGBT ally? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. Do all three!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Recess Rehash: Poor: a deadly diagnosis in America, ft. Sarah Smarsh
Nov 29, 2018
A look at the people valued more as functioning machines than as people
Sarah Smarsh
[We had an interview show lined up for this week’s show, but sucky winter weather intervened to ruin our guest’s travel plans. C’est la vie! We’ll be back next week with a new show, so stay frosty.]
This past week, the Carver College of Medicine hosted its 12th annual Examined Life Conference. Our featured presenter, journalist and memoirist Sarah Smarsh, grew up in a family of farmers and teen mothers in Kansas. Her family, laborers trapped in a cycle of poverty, made the kinds of choices that poor people must make in rural America–whether to eat or seek medical attention, for instance. Decades of inattention–and scorn–from politicians and the media have widened this class divide, and have sent the inexorable message that their voices don’t matter. Ms. Smarsh’s recent book, Heartland: A Memoir of working Hard and Being Broke in the Richest Country on Earth, tells the tales of her family’s struggles with poverty, addiction, workplace injuries, and family violence that many economic and political elites don’t have the background or will to truly understand.
Though Ms. Smarsh has managed to escape the cycle, she has retained her citizenship in–and love for–that largely unexplored country, and offers a deep look at what it’s like to be poor in the wealthiest and most powerful society on the planet. Our executive producer Jason T. Lewis, Rob Humble, Gabe Conley, Teneme Konne, and Christopher Portero Paff talk with Ms. Smarsh about what the working poor are facing, how our willful lack of understanding shapes our perceptions of their struggles, and why it’s crucial that medicine encourages and welcomes them as providers.
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Your voice does matter. So call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Recess Rehash: Bonus Episode! Why You Might Want an MD/PhD
Nov 22, 2018
All about Medical Scientist Training Programs
[Happy Thanksgiving, US listeners! We’re taking a break for turkey and trimmings, but we’ll be back on the mics real soon. For now, reheat this delicious leftover episode.]
The MD isn’t the only degree offered by many medical schools. For those who get excited about data, research, and advancing medical knowledge, you can add a Doctor of Philosophy degree. Of course, there are those who get their PhD separately from their Medicinae Doctor. Others get their PhDs from combined degree programs, including Medical Scientist Training Programs (MSTP).
What questions do you have about MSTP or MD/PhD programs? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. Do all three!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Getting there from here, a novel recipe, and future projects
Nov 15, 2018
Co-hosts Tim Maxwell, Aline Sandouk, Annie Rempel, and Mackenzie Walhof confront pictures of their younger selves and offer themselves the advice they should have gotten at the start of their med school journeys. Listener Darius asks us for the best options to progress from his current work as an EMT-B/paramedic to medical school–among our suggestions is to check out the AAMC’s list of post-baccalaureate programs, including Iowa State University’s excellent but reasonably-priced option. Dave offers up his own Recipe for Med School Success–a concoction he’s pretty sure no-one has ever thought of, but which his skeptical co-hosts end up enjoying–and promises an e-book with them all! Submit yours to be part of it and get it free!
What’s your favorite weird snack? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. Do all three!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
As medical science progresses, it not only answers questions but generates even more. Listener Tyler pointed out a study (now on hold) that proposes to withhold the current standard of care for victims of penetrating trauma to try something else, and he wondered what we thought of the ethics involved. Co-hosts Nick Lind, Kyle Kinder, Madeline Slater, and Justin Hababag are here to help unwind these and other questions. For instance, we explore how far medicine has come in its quest for answers by looking to the past, and what does My Pillow (as-seen-on-tv) have to do with the opioid crisis? Puzzled, we explore the possibilities for how as-seen-on-tv products could help with other public health efforts. Could the Comfort Wipe wipe out ebola? We visit with (a) President Donald Trump (soundboard) to find out.
This Week in Medical News
We still don’t know how a pillow can help with opioid addiction, but perhaps we’re seeing the first glimmers of a turn-around in that particular public health crisis.
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What are favorite as-seen-on-tv products, and have you used any to eliminate a public health issue? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. Do all three!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Poor: a deadly diagnosis in America, ft. Sarah Smarsh
Nov 01, 2018
A look at the people valued more as functioning machines than as people
Sarah Smarsh
This past week, the Carver College of Medicine hosted its 12th annual Examined Life Conference. Our featured presenter, journalist and memoirist Sarah Smarsh, grew up in a family of farmers and teen mothers in Kansas. Her family, laborers trapped in a cycle of poverty, made the kinds of choices that poor people must make in rural America–whether to eat or seek medical attention, for instance. Decades of inattention–and scorn–from politicians and the media have widened this class divide, and have sent the inexorable message that their voices don’t matter. Ms. Smarsh’s recent book, Heartland: A Memoir of working Hard and Being Broke in the Richest Country on Earth, tells the tales of her family’s struggles with poverty, addiction, workplace injuries, and family violence that many economic and political elites don’t have the background or will to truly understand.
Though Ms. Smarsh has managed to escape the cycle, she has retained her citizenship in–and love for–that largely unexplored country, and offers a deep look at what it’s like to be poor in the wealthiest and most powerful society on the planet. Our executive producer Jason T. Lewis, Rob Humble, Gabe Conley, Teneme Konne, and Christopher Portero Paff talk with Ms. Smarsh about what the working poor are facing, how our willful lack of understanding shapes our perceptions of their struggles, and why it’s crucial that medicine encourages and welcomes them as providers.
We Want to Hear From You
Your voice does matter. So call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
We need validation. Leave a review: iTunes
The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Hit By A Bus
Oct 26, 2018
Our newest co-host has already had a taste of fame.
“And that’s when I new I wanted to be a doctor.” Photo by ThoseGuys119
Abby Fyfe joins the crew this time, along with Aline Sandouk, Jayden Bowen, and Aditi Patel. Turns out, Abby is an old hand at being internet famous, because she was (trigger warning) once run over by a bus. True story. She has since regained her 3-dimensional shape, but did she mine that experience for her med school applications?
But first, listener Tyler wants to know: is your undergrad institution’s reputation an important factor for med school admissions committees? And we got some feedback from Alex, an actual registered dietician, and Blake responds to a recent question from Courtney about raising kids during med school.
Later, Jayden quizzes us: can we guess what these genes do based on their very geeky names?
What experiences did you mine for your med school application? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. Do all three!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Nebraska has questions.
Oct 18, 2018
Jennifer Andersen, a sociology PhD student at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln, teaches a course called Sociology of Health and Health Care. She reached out to us to propose that her students would send in questions for us as an extra credit assignment, which was a great idea we jumped on because it meant Dave would barely have to prepare for this show…I mean, it’d be a great education opportunity for her students’ young, fertile minds.
Ahem. Aaanyhow, her students really stepped up with some great topics for Aline Sandouk, Aditi Patel, and new co-hosts Kelsey Anderson and Jacob Chrestenson. So come along with us as we dive into questions like, have you ever had to do something in med school that wasn’t ethical, is it better to come to medical school with an open mind about your eventual career, and what’s it like working with different attendings all the time? They’ve got answers to all these queries and a lot more.
We Want to Hear From You
What do you want us to talk about on a future show? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. Do all three!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
We love listener feedback…even when it’s negative 🙂
And this whole obesity thing is really great for generating negative listener feedback. For instance, Marlene thought our comments on nutrition were mostly wrong. And Laura didn’t seem happy with what we thought was our neutral stance on keto, either, as she’s having some success with it…although a lack of carbs looks just as bad as a bunch of carbs. We could ride this obesity gravy train all the way…but Dave is le tired.
Fortunately for our egos, a while back we managed to give some good advice to Victoria on interviewing , who called back to give Irisa Mahaparn, Aline Sandouk, and newbs Justin Hababag and Annee Rempel some GREAT news! Go, Victoria!
Have we stepped on your sacred cow? Are you happy with our advice? Have we done anything useful today? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. Do all three!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Bonus Episode! Why You Might Want an MD/PhD
Oct 09, 2018
All about Medical Scientist Training Programs
The MD isn’t the only degree offered by many medical schools. For those who get excited about data, research, and advancing medical knowledge, you can add a Doctor of Philosophy degree. Of course, there are those who get their PhD separately from their Medicinae Doctor. Others get their PhDs from combined degree programs, including Medical Scientist Training Programs (MSTP).
What questions do you have about MSTP or MD/PhD programs? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. Do all three!
We need validation. Leave a review: iTunes
The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Ambien Dreams
Oct 04, 2018
This week, listener Jen sent us an article from JAMA in which the author bemoans his tendency to let the electronic health record (coupled with his data-entry difficulties) dominate his attention at the expense of his ability to really see and empathize with his patients. The cost: missing clues that indicate a patient’s progressive decline and family dynamics that contribute to the condition.
Meanwhile, Chrissy Teigen and John Legend find themselves chewing on sleeping pill side effects, causing us to wonder–why is Ambien still on the market, unless it’s to create really great slam poetry? And we practice our teamwork in a mobile game called SpaceTeam, proving perhaps that not all such games make for good podcast fodder–you decide, but don’t @ us, we already know the answer.
Do you have suggestions for what we should talk about on SCP? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. Pick your favorite!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Bonus Episode! Palliative Care: A Perspective from A Land Where It Barely Exists, ft. Dr. MR Rajagopal
Oct 02, 2018
Palliative care is not a thing in India, mostly.
In most of India, palliative care–a medical specialty focused on improving the quality of life of people with life-limiting or disabling diseases–is available to only 1% of people who need it. But in Kerala, one organization is making lots of headway in promoting this vital specialty. In this episode, Pallium India’s founder, chairman, and 2018 Nobel Peace Prize nominee Dr. MR Rajagopal visited the University of Iowa College of Medicine to talk about their efforts to introduce to Indian providers a new way of thinking about pain and other symptoms by providing emotional, social and spiritual support.
As you might expect from such a practitioner, Dr. Rajagopal is an extraordinarily thoughtful man with a kind, quiet voice that belies what must be an extraordinary force of will needed to accomplish his goals. Tony Rosenberg, Ellie Ginn, Rachel Schenkel, and Jayden Bowen discussed how he began his journey, what his fellow Indian providers made of these ideas, and what his hopes are for the future of palliative medicine around the world.
We Want to Hear From You
Do you or anyone in your family have experience with palliative care? Tell us about it at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. We’d love to hear from you!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
What Skinny Doctors Don’t Get About Their Obese Patients
Sep 27, 2018
Fifi Trixiebell (not her real name) wrote to theshortcoats@gmail.com asking us to discuss what medical students learn about nutrition, and whether they think the keto diet is just another fad. Luckily, Madeline Slater, Emma Barr, Kyle Kinder, and newbie Sam Palmer–M1s all–just had a unit on nutrition so that’s an easy one. But Fifi Trixiebell had written in before, a message which–despite his policy of answering every listener question–Dave had passed over. Why did he ignore it? He’s not sure; it was a while back, but it may have triggered him (though, to be clear, it wasn’t Fifi’s fault). We also discuss an article from HuffPo about the “unique and persistent trauma” doctors visit upon their obese patients.
Plus, with the announcement of the 2018 Ig Nobel Prizes, we cover the weird winners in medicine; and Dave puts his co-hosts to the test on their knowledge of past winners.
This Week in Medical News
Sure, when a person is stressed out, the cortisol and adrenaline circulating in the blood mediate the body’s responses, but what about mitochondrial DNA? Perhaps your mom really is trying to kill you!
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Have you ever heard from a perfect stranger how to fix your life? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. Do all three!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Are physicians hopeless in the face of the obesity epidemic?
Sep 20, 2018
Obesity may not be hopeless, but it is very difficult for physicians and sufferers
Listener Hannah wrote in after shadowing physicians, noting that many of the morbidly obese patients she observed resisted their doctors’ advice to lose weight. Is there any hope that doctors can treat this intractable illness when patients don’t “want” to do the work? Aline Sandouk, Claire Casteneda, Kylie Miller, and newbie Ali Hassan offer their views and what they’ve learned so far about treating this difficult disease.
Also, in Dave’s constant quest to ‘contribute’ to his co-hosts clinical skills, we visit the saddest place on the Internet, Yahoo! Answers, so they can practice their patient education techniques.
This Week in Medical News
Congratulations, Sperm Donor #2757! You’re the father of 45 girls and boys between the ages of 1 to 21 years old, and your generosity has made things very weird! And we discuss yet another questionable beauty practice, the vampire facial, which OH COME ON NOW, HOW IS THIS EVEN A THING?
We Want to Hear From You
What are your views on the obesity epidemic…is it hopeless? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. Do all three!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Is AOA racially biased?
Sep 13, 2018
Residency applicants get boosted by AOA, but it could be racially biased
Aline Sandouk, Jayden Bowen, Aditi Patel, and newbie Madeline Slater are on hand to answer listener questions, such as J’s query about the utility of post-bacc programs for med school applicants, and Chelsea’s question about the use of primary literature in medical school curricula. We also discuss how membership in Alpha Omega Alpha Medical Honor Society boosts residency applicants’ competitiveness, and what some schools are doing to ensure they don’t leave out minorities underrepresented in medicine.
Plus, have you considered acquiring a medicine bag of polished stones from everyone’s favorite MD, Gwyneth Paltrow? With the news that her company GOOP has settled a lawsuit in several states alleging some of their products make questionable health claims, we explore some of the items promoted at their recent convention.
Do you know anyone who uses GOOP products? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. Do all three!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Man Ovens, Shoring Up Weaknesses, and Ditching the MCAT
Sep 06, 2018
Should you fix a bad grade, or concentrate on making your strengths even stronger?
Activia (not her actual name, though it probably should be. Feel free to take that name, anonymous caller) emailed us at theshorcoats@gmail.com to ask whether she should retake her physics classes (which she took while coping with other unfortunate life-related stuff) or concentrate on getting great grades in other courses. In addition, she wanted to know if admissions committees REALLY take into account extenuating circumstances? Well, you’re in luck, Activia! We’ve got answers from non-traditional first-year students Kyle Kinder, Nick Lind, and Emma Barr; and our friendly admissions staff Dan and Amy chime in, too.
We also play a game of Psych! while Dave tries to use their performance to make judgements about their personalities. Can he do it? No he can’t, though he notes with concern Kyle’s suspicious ideas about male anatomical structures and function. Too late, Admissions, you said yes!
This Week in Medical News
Facebook has become known as a place where you can find any number of suspicious ideas, but it seems ready to judge so-called alternative health pages as unworthy of its platform. And we discuss an article that argues the MCAT should no longer be used because of a legal concept called “disparate impact.”
We Want to Hear From You
Have you just started medical school? What’s been the best and worst parts of your new life? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Owning a Visible Disability during Med School Interviews
Sep 02, 2018
On today’s show, we’ll answer a question from listener Victoria about having a feeding tube during med school interviews–should she worry that it will make her look weak and infirm, and thus not a good applicant for med school? Aline Sandouk, Mark Moubarek, Jayden Bowen, Marissa Evers and Gabe Conley tell her why she should OWN it by not being the first to mention it! Go Victoria!
Meanwhile, Mark tells us what he did to overcome his sadness in the past year after his wife moved to pursue her own medical education in California while he finishes up at CCOM, and what he’s learned by adopting his new unconventional lifestyle. Go Mark!
This Week in Medical News
A CNN story about an alleged “medical kidnapping” of an 18-year-old brain aneurysm patient shocked many, but it turns out the story wasn’t as simple as the article made it appear. And reaction to New York University’s plan to make tuition absolutely free to all medical students forever took the med ed world by storm…but some aren’t buying that it will have the ostensible consequences of lowering the barrier for underrepresented minorities and encouraging more to go into primary care.
We Want to Hear From You
Did NYU’s announcement move it higher on your list of schools to apply to? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. Do all three!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
A Crucial Health Professions Pipeline Pt. 2
Aug 23, 2018
More great stuff from the SHPEPers at CCOM
Our visit with pre-health students in the Carver College of Medicine’s Summer Health Professions Education Program continues as co-host Teneme Konne talks with SHPEPers Asjah Coleman, Kirsten Grismer, Ahone Koge and Margaret Mungai. Before the show, Teneme also visited with two of Iowa City’s homeless population, and gained some insight into their lives as well as the reasons they are living on the streets.
Plus, we play a game of Mafia, SCP style. Will the hospital administrator, the attending, or the resident escape death? And who is the mystery disease that threatens them all? Dun, dun, duuuunnnn.
Were you lucky enough to take advantage of a SHPEP program, or are you looking forward to participating in the future? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Recess Rehash: Emily Silverman, MD, and The Nocturnists
Aug 16, 2018
A live stage show featuring the stories of healthcare providers is now a podcast you’ll love.
Dr. Silverman is an academic hospitalist at the Zuckerberg San Francisco General Hospital, where she seeks out projects that resurrect the narrative soul of medicine. (Photo: http://thenocturnists.com/team/)
The day-to-day of internship, residency, and an MD career doesn’t allow much time to process the effect it’s having on the practitioner. Rushing from one patient to the next, putting out the fires even while drinking from the firehose, and being selfless in service to the patients’ needs means that one’s own stories are buried, neglected. More and more, however, medicine is acknowledging the need for practitioners to examine and tell their stories so that they can learn from them, teach their lessons to others, and show colleagues that they are not alone. In 2015 Dr. Emily Silverman was in her second year of her internal medicine residency at UCSF. She found herself with a little more time following her frenetic intern year, and with her own stories that had gone untold and unexamined. She started to write, first in a blog she called The Nocturnists. Then, in 2016 she organized the first live storytelling session with her colleagues.
Now, in 2018, those live sessions–held in theaters with fun music and a bar, but most importantly, distant from the hospital– are playing to sellout crowds. Not only do the shows allow for catharsis, but for community. And because Dr. Silverman isn’t ready to allow The University of Iowa to be a satellite venue (and believe us, we asked), we’re grateful that The Nocturnists is also a podcast! Each episode feature a piece from the live show, followed by a relaxed, thoughtful discussion between Dr. Silverman and the storyteller. Her email to Dave earlier this spring to tell The Short Coats about The Nocturnists was a wonderful break from the usual pitches for Caribbean med schools and Ivy League pay-to-play programs; and it gave Kylie Miller, Brendan George, Marisa Evers, and Sanjeeva Weerasinghe a great opportunity to discuss what it is The Nocturnists are thinking about.
We Want to Hear From You
If you could get up on stage and tell your story, what would you say? Well, we have a stage! Tell the world–call 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
SHPEP: A Crucial Healthcare Professions Pipeline
Aug 09, 2018
The Summer Health Professions Education Program, SHPEP, has become a summer tradition at the University of Iowa Carver College of Medicine. Students from around the country participate in SHPEP’s goal: “to strengthen the academic proficiency and career development of students underrepresented in the health professions and prepare them for a successful application and matriculation to health professions schools.”
Iowa program’s SHPEPers Hailey Phillips, Hiancha Pinho, and Meranda Pham join co-host Teneme Konne to discuss the program, what it accomplishes for them, and how mentorship — examples of success in healthcare — is crucial for those who are underrepresented in medicine.
Want to Hear From You
Are you underrepresented in medicine? Who is your mentor? What barriers have you faced and/or overcome? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
When The Cat’s Away, The Mice Found Risky Business Ventures
Aug 02, 2018
Executive Producer Jason has kindly let Dave go on vacation, so Aline Sandouk takes over the hot seat, with Irisa Mahaparn, Hillary O’Brien, Elizabeth Shirazi, and Jayden Bowen. Together they unravel the mysteries of the human body and med school. For instance, why do med students feel guilty about having to take time off to deal with their bed bug infestations? And what would having many normal or two overly large testicles do to fertility? Such brilliant questions!!!
This Week in Medical News
Does Amazon’s Jeff Bezos or Uber’s former CEO Travis Kalanick have toxoplasmosis? Our lawyers say definitely not, but toxo does have a link with risky behaviors, and business people can win big by taking risks. So, naturally, a new study looks at how likely students with toxo are to be business majors. Also, the mental health consequences of sucking up to your boss, and one woman’s warning that her child’s Hot Cheetos habit led to her losing her gallbladder.
We Want to Hear From You
So, what’s up with you? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. Do all three!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Applying to Med School? Don’t Worry About the Money (so much).
Jul 26, 2018
While Dave and the crew try a recipe from the Med School Success Cookbook, they consider listener Imari’s question: how much did co-hosts Aline Sandouk, Eric Schnieders, Gabe Conley, and Irisa Mahaparn think about money when choosing a medical school? While it’s important to know what your financial standing will be when you graduate, including your loans and how they’re affected by scholarships and living situation, we think there are more important things to think about. And Maggie has noticed many med schools have co-ed fraternities and wants our thoughts on their benefits for students. Happy to help explore this interesting and fun possibility for lowering costs, sharing responsibilities, and joining a new med school fam, Maggie!
This Week in Medical News
Now that the Large Hadron Collider has finished tearing a hole in the universe, researchers are using the technology in its subatomic particle detectors to create 3D color x-rays. And CRISPR-Cas9 has proved to be an excellent tool for editing genomes…and also tearing them up and spitting them back out with all kinds of errors and random deletions. Perhaps the honeymoon is over!
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Do you belong to a med school fraternity? What’s it like? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Interview Prep, Opening Up, and Death.
Jul 19, 2018
And no, that’s not the three stages of your med school application.
’tis the season to be applying to medical school. Which is why we got so many listener questions to address on this episode (thank you!) Listener Magnus wanted suggestions for how to prepare for MMI and regular admissions interviews, so we invited our resident experts, Amy A’Hearn (from CCOM med student admissions) and Tom O’Shea (from CCOM physician assistant admissions, for his experience with MMI interviews) to help out. They, along with Aline Sandouk, Jayden Bowen, Marc Moubarek and new co-host Shakoora Sabree, also answered questions from listeners Cameron and Sarah about whether opening up about personal/political views and sexual orientation is okay on applications and in interviews. And listener Jake wanted to know how med students learn to cope with death.
In reference to Sarah’s question on being open about sexual orientation in your application, we weren’t able to find out how many med students identified as LGBTQ+ in the US, but we did note that many prospective students are reluctant to disclose their identification for fear of discrimination.
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Do you have something to add to the discussion, or a question we can answer? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Med School Youtubers, Pre-Med Experiences, and Overcoming Shyness
Jul 12, 2018
Listener Amari returns to ask Aline Sandouk, Jayden Bowen, Tony Rosenberg and Mark Moubarek–what do they think of med school YouTubers? Is it advisable to broadcast your life during med school in an age when everything you do online has a permanent risk associated with it? Of course, there are some recommendations for residency program directors in searching social media for candidates’ info.
Next up, Jordan is looking for advice on great pre-med activities that will teach him as well as look great on his application. And Richard is both shy and working in a lab, and he’s worried that it will be difficult for him to make connections with doctors for things like shadowing.
We Want to Hear From You
Have you ever regretted your social media footprint professionally? What pre-med activities would you recommend to Jordan? How can Richard break out of his shell? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. Do all three!
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Why You Might Want to Wait to Apply to Medschool
Jul 05, 2018
Your Med School Application is Too Important to Rush
Don’t look for a reason this image is here. I just liked it. Photo by Dominic’s pics
Listener Hanna wrote in to ask an important question: is it better to apply this year despite possibly ending up in the second tier of applicants due to a late MCAT score, or should she just wait until next year? Good question, Hannah! Aline Sandouk, Irisa Mahaparn, Tony Rosenberg, and admissions counselor Dan Schnall (in absentia) have the answer.
Another listener, Amari (and we hope we’ve spelled that right), phoned in to the Short Coats Hotline to find out if there is a medical school equivalent to the infamous Freshman 15 many undergrads suffer through, and if so, what she could do about it when she starts her journey in medical education.
Med students aren’t, in general, known for being good liars; they tend to be a pretty ethical bunch. But perhaps they suspend their morality enough to fool each other with lies about their time in medical school. We’ll see about that, as they play Two Truths and a Lie.
We’re still giving away keyfobs if you post a review somewhere and send a screenshot to theshortcoats@gmail.com, and we’ve begun collecting recipes for our future Recipes for Med School Success cookbook.
This Week in Medical News
Researchers discover what might be a vaccine to treat diabetes…and it’s already in use around the world, though not in the US. And the US Supreme Court ‘s decision to uphold the most recent version of Trump’s travel ban won’t hurt patients seeking medical attention at all, unless they need a geriatrician, nephrologist, cardiologist, internist, critical care specialist, nurse, medical technician…hmm, that seems like rather a lot.
We Want to Hear From You
Do you need advice? Do you have questions about medical school? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
The Secondary Application: Bragging vs. Confidence
Jun 28, 2018
How can you brag about yourself without bragging about yourself?
We are taught from a young age (most of us, anyway) not to brag. It is better, we may sometimes hear, to show confidence. Listener Rachel wrote in with a question about the secondary application: how does one confidently talk themselves up without coming across as a braggart? Lucky for Rachel, we have Daniel Schnall from our admissions staff on hand to help Mark Moubarek, Kylie Miller, Aline Sandouk, and Gabe Conley with some great advice about how to sell yourself on your application and also back it up. Don’t want to look like a chump? Dan has your answer, Rachel.
Kylie had an excellent idea: med students are pressed for time, and nutrition can be one of those things they deep six in favor of studying. Her thought: let’s make a cookbook for Med Student Success, and listeners can contribute! Do you have a favorite recipe you use to keep your Kreb’s cycle in tip top shape? Then submit the recipe so we all can benefit! Comfort food, speedy prep, healthy living, or whatever, we want to hear about it! We’ll publish the results in some fashion, and everyone who contributes will get a free copy!
Plus, the group plays Doctor Forehead. Do you know the terms and concepts Dave found in the news last week, and why they were even being talked about?
This Week in Medical News
Everyone knows ortho residents don’t get enough exercise. Skinny, pale, weak, they’re practically collapsing under the weight of their own skin. Which is why we’re relieved that someone took pity and created a peer reviewed(?) workout routine for them, using common materials found around the ortho workroom. Get swole! Is the NIH doing it’s job of funding innovative research and fostering research careers? Doesn’t sound like it. And the AMA goes all in on a call to ban the American Dreamsale and ownership of assault weapons.
We Want to Hear From You
Are you a gun owner who feels like the AMA goes to far? Do you want advice and don’t want to pay for it? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. We’ll talk about it.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Hotel Influenza, Confirming Right-to-Try Problems, REM Sleep Revealed
Jun 21, 2018
We love when listeners get in touch, which is why Dave was glad to hear from Adil who, after listening to our discussion of the new national Right-To-Try legislation, sent us a paper he wrote on the subject the year before. It really helped clear some things up that we weren’t sure of. Like the fact that it doesn’t actually do anything to help patients get faster access to experimental drugs, has a kind of informed consent problem, allows patients to further conflate research with therapy, and more.
And with thousands of new medical students poised to matriculate this fall, Dave and co-hosts Aline Sandouk, Kylie Miller, and Amy Hanson try out a new awkward icebreaker activity to see if it has some utility for new student orientations.
This Week in Medical News
The Trump administration walks back their recent decision to claw back money earmarked for fighting epidemics around the world. Back home, St. Louis University opens an influenza hotel. And the function of REM sleep finally revealed…maybe.
We Want to Hear From You
What do you most want to find out during your upcoming med school orientation? Are you nervous? Are you excited? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com.
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The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Healthcare In Occupied Palestine: The Palestine Children’s Relief Fund
Jun 14, 2018
[Don’t forget our SCP Key Fob Giveaway…share an episode of the podcast or post a review on iTunes, and send a screenshot to theshortcoats@gmail.com for your free gift–our way of saying thanks for your support!]
The challenges of providing healthcare in an occupied territory
Steve Sosebee and Zeena Salman, MD. Photo by Steve Sosebee (@stevesosebee)
Steve Sosebee is the president and CEO of the Palestine Children’s Relief Fund. He’s married to Dr. Zeena Salman, a pediatric oncologist working with the PCRF. For 25 years, PCRF has been leading medical missions to help children in the Middle East, helping children get medical treatment abroad, and delivering humanitarian aid. Their recent visit to the Carver College of Medicine gave Short Coats Reem Khodor, Ethan Craig, and Nico Dimenstein a chance to sit down with them to discuss the challenges and realities of working to provide healthcare within the confines of an occupied territory.
Those challenges are sometimes gargantuan, especially compared with the standard of care children receive in the United States. For example, urgently-needed medications and medical equipment being held up in customs; children who must be separated from family members for their cancer treatment because they are not allowed to travel with adults under the age of 55; dealing with the conflicting priorities of the Israeli military and Hamas, which each govern portions of Palestine.
Their passion for the mission–offering better lives to the children of this contested land–is evident. But somehow, any frustration they may feel about the difficulties they and their young beneficiaries face isn’t. Sosebee and Salman have a strikingly matter-of-fact view of the world in which they operate, and are doing what they must for the children and families caught up in a conflict not of their own design.
We Want to Hear From You
What are your experiences with organizations like PCRF or with medical missions abroad? What did you learn from your participation? Share them at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. Do all three!
We need validation. Leave a review: iTunes
The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
Routines, Right To Try, and Reviews
Jun 07, 2018
What Routines Do Medical Students Find Helpful When Drinking from the Firehose?
From her perch among the clouds of medical school, Yolanda stared longingly at the residency program of her dreams, knowing deep down inside that her inability to establish a study routine would doom her to a life of *shudder* psychiatry.
Listener Meghan is about to start med school in the fall, and is thinking about what sort of regular habits medical students like Aline Sandouk, Tony Rosenberg, and new co-host Jayden Bowen use to keep them on track. Not only do we look at some routines they use (and debate whether they’re even helpful), but we also have a suggested routine for the new student.
What Every New Medical Student Needs to Know about The ‘Dean’s Letter.’
And Dave, who’s begun writing dean’s letters (or ‘Medical Student Performance Evaluations’) for students who will be looking for jobs this year, has some sobering news for his co-hosts: they are, themselves, already writing them. Dave thinks most first-year medical students have never heard of this important document, nor do they know what will be in it…and how it could help or hinder their efforts to land that plum residency.
This Week in Medical News
Dermatologists are less accurate in diagnosing melanomas than the stupidest artificial intelligence…but don’t cancel your derm dreams yet. Meanwhile, patients get the ‘right to try‘ from the Trump administration…but is bypassing the slow FDA approval process almost completely a good idea, or will the bad actors in medicine end up lining their pockets on the hopes of their desperately ill patients?
We Want to Hear From You
What are your med school routines? Did your school read you in on the MSPE when you started? Call us at 347-SHORTCT anytime, visit our Facebook group, or email theshortcoats@gmail.com. Do all three!
We need validation. Leave a review: iTunes
The opinions expressed in this feed and podcast are not those of the University of Iowa or the Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine; nor do they reflect the views of anyone other than the people who expressed them. If you have feedback on anything you hear on the show, positive or not, let us know.
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VERY soft spoken British man + interesting space facts = SLEEP
Turkish listener Ali would like to come to the US for residency and to practice medicine someday, so he wrote to us to ask us what we knew about how that works. Co-host Nadia Wahba happened to visit Turkey a while back and blew our minds by letting us in on a little secret: that in the city she visited, there are public parks full of well-cared-for pets you can visit and play with.
Listener Salutes McGee (not her real name) is planning on med school after her tour of duty. What hard-won skills, she wonders, will transfer to medicine? And Krystal writes in with her med school debt worries. Will she need to plan to pay off $600,000 all in? No need to fear, Krystal and Salutes, because M4s Liza Mann, Derek Bradley, Jessie White, and M2 Abby Fife are here to soothe your fears and answer your questions.
[Happy Holidays! Dave is on vacation, but here’s a re-run to tide you over. We’ll be back with new episodes starting 1/16] 
A question from listener Blake–do we use Anki or Brainscape for studying–led to a discussion of the various tools and techniques Aline Sandouk (MD/PhD student), Nick Lind, Madeline Cusimano, and Mason LaMarche (all M2s) use to shove medical knowledge into their brains.
Two questions this week from Short Coats! Listener Luis wrote in to ask what books co-hosts Hillary O’Brien, Kylie Miller, Emma Barr and newbie Sahaana Arumugam consulted to find their paths. And Mia wrote to theshortcoats@gmail.com to find out more about MS/DO or MS/MD programs and what they look for in their applicants. And can we find patient-care uses for weird proverbs? No, we can’t. But it was fun to try.
Co-host and MD/PhD student Miranda Schene is a woman who has obviously been raised well. So when her mother, Ginny, wrote to theshortcoats@gmail.com asking about the surprises med school had in store for this week’s gang, Dave–who also loves his mother–couldn’t very well say no! M1 Nathen Spitz and M2 Jenna Mullins, along with new co-host M1 Bryn Myers join in to give Mama Ginny the deets.
The BBC featured a story on their site about 
Brandon Bacalzo and Angeline Vanle join the team as incoming medical students. Luckily for them they have the chance to put questions about med school to M2 Nick Lind and M3 Brady Campbell, including how to find the new study habits they’ll need to succeed.
Dan Weissmann
[Dave’s on vacation, so here’s a rerun for ya.]
This week, with help from LJ Agostinelli, Irisa Mahaparn, and new co-host Fili Bogdanic, Dave offers listener Karstan some advice for med students (and others) who want to start a podcast. It’s a worthwhile activity, without question, for discovering and understanding the field you’re growing into, provided you can find the time!
The 
Here’s a question we get often, in one form or another: will [some aspect of my life to date] hurt my chances for getting into medical school? Kyle Kinder, Irisa Mahaparn, Aline Sandouk, and Hanna Van Ert are here to reassure listener Rachel that, despite her background in medical malpractice law, she’s going to be fine…if she can articulate what she took away from that part of her life.
Listener Nathan called in to the SCP Hotline at 347-SHORTCT to ask how research works for medical students. Is it necessary? Is it recommended? How do you find research to do? Irisa Mahaparn, Miranda Schene, Emma Barr, and newcomer Nadiah Wabba are on hand to discuss the roles of research in med school, how it can help a residency applications, for which residency applications research is a recommended component, and how it all works.
Former co-host and now PM&R Doctor Cole Cheney returns for a discussion of what he’s discovered about the 
Short Coats Rob Humble and Claire Castaneda are joined by new co-hosts Mitchell Hooyer and Jeremy Sanchez to talk about their personal experiences as members of the 
And this whole obesity thing is really great for generating negative listener feedback. For instance, Marlene thought our comments on nutrition were mostly wrong. And Laura didn’t seem happy with what we thought was our neutral stance on keto, either, as she’s having some success with it…although a lack of carbs 
