Show notes
This week's episode of the Setting Trick: Conversations with World-Class Bridge Players turns the tables and features professional player Greg Hinze interviewing host John McAllister. In this conversation, we cover John's background, his favorite bridge books, his experiences at the national and world championships, his documentary movie about bridge, the reasons why he started the podcast, and more. [01.29] John's background – Starting the conversation, John discusses his Virginia roots, where he lives, where he went to college, and why he wants to stay there. [08.40] Books – John and Greg talk about some of the best books about bridge. [20.43] The summer nationals – We talk about John's experience with mixed board-a-match teams in Providence at the summer nationals and the open BAM at the fall NABC. [23.31] The movie – We talk about the movie called 'Double Dummy' produced by John, about bridge. [32.10] The podcast – John shares the reasons behind starting his podcast and continuing until now. [33:48] Meeting Migry – John remembers meeting partner Migry Zur Campanile and playing mixed teams at the world championships. [43.50] Bridge conventions – John chooses his desert island bridge convention. Transcript [00:00:00] Greg Hinze: Hello everybody. Welcome to the Setting Trick. Uh, I'm your guest host, uh, Greg Hinsey. Uh, our normal host with the most will not be available today as a host. So without further ado, let me introduce our special guest star today. Creator of the Setting Trick Podcast, producer of the new movie, double Dummy and newly crowned N A B C Champion, my friend, John McAllister. [00:00:36] Hi John. Hey [00:00:36] John McAllister: Greg . Thanks for having me. , should I think I cut you off there at the end, . [00:00:43] Greg Hinze: So how you feel being on the other side of [00:00:45] John McAllister: you? Nervous? I am, I'm definitely nervous. I didn't know what to expect and I, I definitely like, probably 20 minutes before I got home I was. And I was definitely like, okay, this is, uh, I get nervous before I host the show. [00:00:59] But, uh, to be this is a real honor to have you do this, uh, to have you do this for me. I feel a great honor for [00:01:06] Greg Hinze: you having me, uh, do this. Uh, so, uh, I, I'm nervous too, so , so we just dive right in? Yeah, sure. Okay. Uh, yeah, just tell me a little bit about yourself. Cause I like, where are you from? Where'd you grow up? [00:01:19] And uh, okay. [00:01:20] John McAllister: How, how'd you, I'm gonna start, I'm gonna go back. This is where you're now just a brief, so in Phoenix, the, the way this conversation came to pass is in Phoenix, after we won the Mitchell Board of Match, my first N A B C victory, you, Greg offered to, to flip the script here on the setting trick and to interview me. [00:01:39] And so that's how this conversation came to pass. And when I texted you about, You were like, I wasn't sure if you were totally committed to it, but you sent me a list of questions and you and you, you know, you had your intro planned, so I really appreciate that. I, um, it says a lot about you and just to go from there, I grew up, and I still live in Charlottesville, Virginia. [00:02:05] I went to college at the University of Virginia, which is here. My mom is originally from Charlottesville and. It's a great place to live. I've thought about living elsewhere, but haven't really found a compelling reason to, uh, to move just yet. I get a lot of travel playing bridge, so I, I get to vi see the world through bridge tournaments, which is, I think is a, as you probably would attest, a great way to, to see the world. [00:02:33] Greg Hinze: Yeah. I haven't seen much of the world myself. Uh, mainly just America. I've seen . But, uh, so what, you mentioned you gave 'em to college there, uh, as well. What, what did you study? Study [00:02:43] John McAllister: when you, I like to joke when people ask me what I studied in college, that I was in a fraternity, , because I really, I was a good student in. [00:02:54] Like I went to a very academically rigorous high school, a boarding school, all, all male boarding school, about an hour from here called Woodbury Forest. And the, the teachers there really challenged me to work hard to learn the material. And then by the time I got to U V A, I sort of crapped out on school. [00:03:12] I was technically a history major. I tried to get into the undergraduate commerce school and my, uh, they didn't accept me and. Yeah, so I was technically a history major, but I had worse grades in history than I did in other subjects. It was sort of a last minute thing. My, one of my best friend's dad was a history professor, and so he could be my advisor and it was sort of the easy, easy thing to do when it was time to declare a major at the end of my second year. [00:03:42] And so [00:03:42] Greg Hinze: outta school, you went, I had read that you were on involved in the hedge fund company or something. Yeah. You did that for, [00:03:50] John McAllister: yeah. So. There's this guy named Jeffrey Woodruff, who is a hedge fund manager here in Charlottesville. And my parents, my, were actually friends with Jeffery's parents when, when we were younger. [00:04:06] And so I got interested in trading because I played a lot of backgammon after I graduated from uva. My roommate and I in New York City would play backgammon all the time, and we played for pretty decent stake. And so through backgammon I heard a, uh, I heard a recording where somebody was talking about trading, and that really appealed to me from like the same sort of thinking logic as backgammon. [00:04:34] And so I got a. The reason I brought up Jeffrey's name is because three different people, my mother, my piano teacher, and then a woman that my piano teacher had set me up with all suggested they knew I was interested in trading, that I should reach out to this guy, Jeffrey Woodruff, and I didn't do it. I never reached out to any of those through any of those people suggesting it. [00:04:56] Only when he, his company, appeared on the U V A. Uh, job site looking for interns. Did I actually reach out? And then I had a seven and a half year career working there, which ended in, in, in 2012. And, uh, I just got, I just was tired of working for, uh, doing that at that time. Had you, uh, played bridge yet? [00:05:19] Yeah, so I played, I started playing bridge when I was 18. My parents knew how to play and my aunt suggested it and. I loved it immediately, but I didn't really have an outlet for it. Like in New York City, for example, I lived, after I graduated U V A, I lived probably two blocks from honors, and it never even occurred to me to seek out a bridge game in, in, uh, in the city. [00:05:46] You didn't know it existed, but you were right nearby it. Yeah. Yeah. There was a backgammon club that I never went to, but I was, I wanted to try to go there to play backgammon for money against other players, and I never got the courage up to do it, but it didn't even occur to me to think like I loved bridge. [00:06:03] Like it, it was something I did with my parents when I came home and it didn't, like I played spades with co, with friends in college, but I didn't actually occur to, to explain bridge. To them, how, how did you [00:06:18] Greg Hinze: find the Bridge Club or whatever to get into the A C B L? [00:06:21] John McAllister: So, my older sister had three friends that were looking for her fourth for bridge classes when I moved back to Charlottesville. [00:06:29] And she knew I loved it and she suggested it. And then that woman took me to the, uh, to the local Bridge Club for the first. And have you, uh, [00:06:41] Greg Hinze: thought about making a movie at this point yet at [00:06:43] John McAllister: all, or no? No. Podcast or No, no, no. This is probably, this is, this was in like 2000. And [00:06:49] Greg Hinze: so you learned, you learned from your, your, your [00:06:51] John McAllister: sister, you said? [00:06:52] So my sister would be our fourth. So my parents kind of knew how to play and my sister would be our fourth, but she wasn't, she never really got into it. She was just willing, a willing participant. And then she had friends that were looking for a fourth, for a, like a weekly bridge class. Oh, [00:07:09] Greg Hinze: that's good. [00:07:10] And, uh, what did you start reading about Bridge? Like, uh, do you read books? Did you play online? So [00:07:17] John McAllister: we had a Bridge for Dummies book that I bought and we would, when I played with my parents, we would sort of have that out. They had like a two page cheat sheet maybe. And I had bridge books, uh, that I would read. [00:07:32] Yeah, I don't exactly remember what, what my first bridge books were or how it all, but I mean, I like, I like consuming information about bridge. Like that is one of the things I, I love playing Bridge. Like to this day I love playing bridge. I love consuming information about Bridge and reading Bridge books is a big part. [00:07:56] What's your favorite, [00:07:57] Greg Hinze: uh, couple [00:07:58] John McAllister: Bridge books? Uh, well, that's a good question. I'm reading right now Bridge with Another Perfect partner, which I think was the I B P A book of the year. And so that's by John Caruthers, who I don't actually know. I don't think I know him. I, I don't know if he plays tournaments or not. [00:08:17] He's Canadian. And it's like a at the table book where, you know, they give you the deal and he's got this partner who is a real, like a real expert. And so that guy explains the, uh, how the deal should be played or how he did play it, or how he created an illusion to, you know, to beat the contract. It's not something that you can read. [00:08:46] I'll read, you know, a couple of deals at a time and then like, do something else cuz it's Bridge Books are not like Rare. Is the Bridge book, uh, um, what's the name of that book? Uh, with the unlucky expert. Oh, uh, the, the Men. Oh. Why You Lose a Bridge? Why You Lose a Bridge? That's probably the, that is a rare bridge book and that you can read it. [00:09:11] Like I can read that book all the way. Without, I've always enjoyed [00:09:16] Greg Hinze: like, uh, the Bridge and the Menagerie series. Uh, and they had the carpa, I think he was a unlucky expert or whatever. Uh, he was labeled as such. But, uh, that was always fun to read. Uh, they, they could, you could read through those things. Uh, just kind of, I just enjoyed the characters and it was a good bridge. [00:09:33] Uh, like a lot of non bridge stuff [00:09:35] John McAllister: at the same time. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And hilarious. So well written Victor Ma. . So, uh, [00:09:42] Greg Hinze: you just got into the A C B O and then you started, uh, going to tournaments. [00:09:47] John McAllister: Uh uh so, uh, traveling the world, playing bridge everywhere. No, no, no. So shook the, my first Bridge teacher was a woman named Shook, and she was pretty eccentric French woman, and she could play with me once a month at the local bridge. [00:10:04] And so then she found this guy who was younger than me who was a UVA student, and she started playing with him. And then I started playing with him. His name's Jason Holderness, and he was better than I was. And we then went, uh, Jason and I, when the D Nationals were in DC in like 2009, I think Jason and I went up there and we played in like a two session. [00:10:30] 1 99 or pair game that we won. And so we got little trophies from that, which unfortunately I threw away, I think. I think I threw away the photo that they took too. . But I forget what your original question. Just like, [00:10:43] Greg Hinze: you know, when you started playing tournaments and, you know, traveling a bit more, uh, as, as opposed [00:10:48] John McAllister: to just going to the local. [00:10:49] So like, uh, my first national was in 2012, so I quit my job at Quantitative Investment Management and I gave, like, they said, will you give us two weeks? And so the last day of my two weeks was, Like that day, literally that day I left for Memphis to play in my first national, that was in spring of 2012. [00:11:12] And there was a sectional the weekend before and I hired this kid named Rob Brady, who was a UVA student who was a, a pro to be my partner. And I forget who our teammates were, but we won the Swiss and that was my first time winning a sectional Swiss. And winning the Swiss made me a life master. Oh wow. [00:11:36] That's [00:11:36] Greg Hinze: a, that was a good timing for everything. pretty, pretty fun. Pretty fun. So, uh, so, so then after that you were just like hooked on nationals? Uh, I mean cuz nationals are pretty fun experience. Uh, I mean, if you haven't been to one, I think they're really fun things to go to. [00:11:54] John McAllister: So, Yes. I mean, essentially yes, I, before I played my first national, I was in at a conference for work in February of 2012, and it was in Palm Beach and Gavin Wilpert lives near there. [00:12:10] And so I knew about Gavin from Bridge Winners and I messaged him on B B O and asked him if I could play with him. And so I played two days with him in the sectional. And he said, which I think is a great piece of advice that I like to give out to people is play against the best competition that you can play against, and that's playing at the Nationals. [00:12:31] So, uh, I've been fortunate to, I've gone to every national but won since then. And I've also played in, uh, one, two, played in four World championships now. Very good. Uh, where was your favorite place to play Bridge? I think Tromso Norway, I played in the European championships there, and it's inside of the Arctic Circle. [00:12:58] So it's, it was in the summer and literally the sun didn't go down. Um, that was a pretty unique, a unique experience. So how is [00:13:10] Greg Hinze: bridge over there like, uh, run differently than it is here? Like, uh, is cuz it feels like it, you know, we may be a little bit outdated in, uh, some of the technology available. is when you played like in the world championships, uh, over [00:13:25] John McAllister: how did, well I think the first time I played behind screens was at a bridge tournament in a Bulgaria. [00:13:31] And the top seven tables were behind screens, and they had like plastic boards. And I remember the, the further that we got in down in the table ranking, we had never seen this before. We had like these leather, little leather sleeves that had the cards in them, but the European championships. And the world Championships, as I imagine, you know, are like, they're all screens, all the tables are screens. [00:14:01] You're playing the same deals at the same time. Everybody's playing the same deals. It's, uh, it's cool because there's a lot of people there that I, that are new to me. So, you know, the national, the US nationals tends to be, tends to be a lot of the same people. But in Europe it was like a whole new, whole new crew of people. [00:14:24] More, uh, uh, [00:14:25] Greg Hinze: foreigners come to America than Americans go to the foreign countries. It seems, um, there's not very many Americans that really do much traveling to play bridge over there as, as far as, as over here seems. Do you find it that way or do you know a lot of Americans that are going all over [00:14:42] John McAllister: these? [00:14:42] Uh, you know, the, the, the Americans that are hiring real, like good teams for the nationals tend to probably play over there. , I would think like there's a tournament. The European Open is th…
Full show notes at the publisher 
Our TOPPODCAST Picks 
Stay Connected
