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    Education

    The Self Mastery Podcast: Overcome the Pornography Struggle

    Learning to overcome my porn use was the greatest challenge of my life and my marriage. It had rocked my self confidence, tainted all of the most important experiences of my life and become the impossible challenge I was forced to live with as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
    Here you’ll learn about the struggle, how to overcome pornography use, and where to find additional resources to become a self mastery expert.
    At some point I took a step away from all the 12 step meetings and councilors and started to figure out my own brain, to look at my issue as something that I had the answer to and I was going to figure it out. Here I share those lessons and give you the power to start your own journey free. Whether you are the user or their partner, whether you feel stuck or just don’t know where to start, here I will teach you principles, tools and skills that you can use today to change how you think and, in the end, what you do.
    You’ll hear interviews with my spouse, with experts on human sexuality and with former and current pornography users on how you can overcome your own struggle with addictive behavior.
    The Self Mastery Podcast will bring new perspective to your struggle and keep you coming back to improve all aspects of your life.

    Advertise

    Copyright: © Copyright 2020 Zach Spafford

    • Apple Podcasts
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    Latest Episodes:
    Overcoming Pornography through Differentiation - Series 5 of 5 Feb 27, 2022
    Show notes

    Differentiation – enmeshment

    Meaning frames - Disorganization - Reorganizing with integrity

    Self-confrontation – other confrontation

    Self-validation – other validation

    Self-disclosure - Self-presentation = Intimacy p 102-103

    This month has been a real deep dive. It has included a lot of really meaningful topics and subjects that I have tried to make as understandable as possible.


    We started with looking at our meaning frames and how disorganizing it can be to have them shattered by our partner not living up to the understandings that we have about pornography viewing in our relationships.


    Next, we moved on to the process of confronting ourselves and our partner in loving and meaningful ways that can help us reorganize ourselves into more integrated people.


    The following week, we discussed how we are extracting validation from our partners, how we can stop doing that, and how we can become more self-validating through some of the work we discussed in the previous weeks.


    Last week we talked about disclosure and the ways in which we present ourselves to others in order to manage their beliefs and ideas around who we are.


    This is the last episode of the series. Here we are going to explore enmeshment, differentiation, and the process of becoming a whole person who can also be a good partner without the need for someone to function for us.


    One of the biggest struggles that I think most marriages have is the issue of how much we fold into each other.


    What I’m talking about here is the amount of enmeshment and conformity that occurs when we become a couple.


    What this might look like is, a need to have the same opinion on important issues. It might look like, one partner over functioning while the other partner under functions, which can be flipped in certain circumstances.


    This also looks like some of the requirements we have that our partner reflect our sense of who we are back to us. Rather than holding up a mirror to who we are as we discussed in the self-confrontation/other-confrontation episode.


    In the process of creating intimacy that is built out of the validation of others, we often move along nicely together, until one day everything gets stuck or snaps and we find ourselves and our relationship in a moment of crisis.


    It might be a small crisis. It might be a big crisis.


    In the case of a pornography struggle, this is often a pretty big crisis.


    Where we have spouses saying things like darcy did to me, “if you don’t get this under control, this is the end of our relationship.”


    In part, this is occurring Because the meaning-framework that we brought to the marriage is insufficient to hold onto the reality of the situation (that one partner is viewing pornography and pornography is destructive so our marriage is in jeopardy and so is my sense of self) in the face of the pain that is occurring through the rejection that the other partner is feeling.


    When we have crises points like this in our lives there are basically 3 ways that we can deal with it. Here we are again leaning heavily on dr David schnarch’s book, passionate marriage.


    I.

    The first is to either violate yourself by folding into their demands on you or violating your partner by requiring them to fold into your demands of how things must be.


    In this scenario, I think a lot of women and partners of those viewing pornography feel totally justified. Part of our culture and part of our moral code demands that pornography never be part of the equation ever or it will destroy. So making this demand that your partner violate themselves to simply behave the way you need them to behave so you can be enough for them sexually regardless of what that looks like is pretty much ok with in LDS tradition.


    D – this is how I felt when I first found out. etc. I would also do things that tried to fold into the way I thought Zach wanted me to be. I tried being sexier, even though I didn’t feel like it just to try and please him.


    Z- the way I would do this was to give Darcy anything she wanted, even when it wasn’t in the best interests of our family or my own personal sense of self. Like giving up meaningful activities that I enjoyed appeasing her.


    This is really about enmeshment. It’s the kind of “I can’t live without you and you can’t live without me” kind of way that we deal with our partners that draws them in with a view of becoming one based on a single sense of self.



    II.

    The second thing that often happens in relationships when there is an intense sticking point it to distance ourselves from the relationship emotionally or physically or both.


    If you have been in the depths of this kind of situation or know someone who has, you’ve likely experienced this or seen it.


    It shows up in a variety of ways that might be dramatic,


    Or that might not be that dramatic.


    But either way our behaviors become about moving away from our partner and even closing off emotionally.


    I don’t think Darcy ever really did this, because she was really invested in me and our relationship.


    But I would do this by withdrawing back into pornography.


    Unlike the enfolding into each other sense that we get from accommodating or being accommodated, this looks more like, “I’m drowning in our us-ness and I need to escape it in order to be me”


    Where this might be problematic is, that when I cannot be in relation to another person without taking on their anxieties and struggles, it is also not a refuge to be alone.


    Especially in the midst of a marriage.






    III.

    The final way that we can engage with these stuck and difficult moments is to confront yourself and become more differentiated.


    This last process is one of ambiguous trying. As I’ve read through Passionate Marriage and as I’ve listened to people like Jennifer Finlayson-fife, it has become clear to me that there isn’t a lot of concreteness to this process of becoming differentiated.


    Differentiation as a word means to make distinct from the things around them.


    But I’m not sure this word in itself captures for regular people like me how that is accomplished or what it means in terms of how relationships can be improved by it.


    In part, it is the amalgamation, putting together all of the concepts that we’ve been discussing this month.


    Doing each of these things helps us to determine how we are different from our partner. But there is a step that we haven’t talked about that is key to this concept.


    While we are different physically and mentally, we often try to conform to each other in order to create a sense of unity.


    But differentiation does not include conformity. It includes choosing closeness in the face of our differences without letting go of our sense of self.


    One way that this is put in the book is that differentiation is the ability to soothe your own anxiety and resist being infected with other people’s anxiety.


    I take that to mean, that I can manage my own emotions, not require that my partner take care of me, willingly accept the loving critique of my partner, while also being willing to confront the things in myself that I don’t like, as I also overcome my need to be validated by others and become capable of validating myself, in the process of eliminating unnecessary ways of presenting myself to others, especially my spouse, as I disclose to my partner who I really am.


    If that seems like a lot, we took 5 podcast episodes to explain all of it for this one moment.


    No wonder it is hard to become the people we want to be. We have to get good at so many important and sometimes difficult processes at once.


    Another way that Dr Schnarch describes differentiation in the book is having the ability to maintain a sense of self while in relation to others.


    He also describes it this way, Differentiation is your ability to maintain your sense of self when you are emotionally and or physically close to others – especially as they become increasingly important to you.


    For many of us, the closer we get to our partner the less we see ourselves as one person who chooses another. We are more likely to see ourselves as an indistinct part of a whole.


    Intimacy Requires Risk - The Secret to Intimacy Series: Chapter 4 of 5 Feb 20, 2022
    Show notes

    We live in a world that is really good at presenting itself to us in ways that are designed to get our appr oving likes, hearts, shares, and follows.

    In talking about the ways that we use other-validated intimacy last week, we began to understand what it is and how we might be working to get it from others.

    We didn’t really talk about why that might be a problem.

    Relationships built on other-validation create cycle of self-presentation for validation, which eventually breaks down when one or more of the people involved don’t want to play the game any more.


    There have been a number of scandals over the years of influencers doing work that wasn’t quite real or genuine in an effort to gain more social media currency. They are putting forward a picture of themselves that is not real in an effort to be seen as more than what they really are.


    They fake houses, cars, vacations, and other status symbols so that those who follow them believe in the person’s success regardless of its truth in the real world. They present a picture of themselves as something they are not when they are alone with themselves.


    As a pornography user, this is exactly what I did to my wife and what she did to me.


    I would present to her a reality that wasn’t a reflection of who I was when I was alone with my inner thoughts, feelings, and behaviors.


    I was presenting myself to my partner by not telling her how I felt. I was not real with what was going on for me. I was actively trying to manage her impressions of me, how she felt about me, and her anxiety around the difficult subjects in our life.


    I would do this by not sharing difficult situations at work. I would do this by not showing her that I was stressed, I would say I was tired or something else instead. I would find ways to avoid her when I had looked at pornography. I would lie about my pornography use. I would tell myself that she couldn’t handle it. I would tell myself that I was only hurting myself and that she didn’t need to know.


    I was presenting a picture of who I was to Darcy in order to keep her “happy” or “Safe” or to get her to like me. When the reality was, I wasn’t the person I was saying I was.


    D - Sometimes I would have sex when I really didn’t want to. I would be more sexual to try and compete with the porn that you were using. I would act like everything was fine when they weren’t.


    This, in turn, created a great deal of anxiety for me. It made me constantly nervous and anxious about our future and my ability to care for Darcy. It left me lonely and alone in very real ways.


    Which, incidentally, were my biggest emotions that I was trying to escape. And were some of the main reasons I would turn to pornography.


    So, in self-presenting to Darcy, curating the image she had of me, especially the false parts of it, I created a lack of intimacy. I removed intimacy from our lives. I made it so she was not able to track honesty and openness in me. Which was the very thing she would tell you that she wanted.


    She wanted to know me, but she was also scared of who I actually was in meaningful ways.


    What was that like for you?


    D – I wanted to know you as far as it made me feel ok. but when it came to you, when it made me not feel ok, I didn’t like it. So, in a very real sense I was helping create an environment that encouraged Zach to self-present. Which is not the same as making him do it. He was still very much responsible for his own actions. It’s important to understand that this is not an excuse for us to lie. It is simply an acknowledgement of my part in the environment.


    Z- We all do this in some small ways and most of us do this in some significant ways.


    The reality is, that being able to present a picture of who we are to others is a valuable tool that helps us advance our interests. As far as I can tell, It also seems to allow us to keep things that aren’t really good to share with everyone to ourselves.


    D – we all know that couple who we might even look up to and we think they are doing so good. Then the next thing you know they are getting divorced. And we wonder what happened. Really, they were just super good at presenting a certain image, while underneath something else was happening.




    Z - This is the time and place issue that we run into with a lot of things that are important to us, but that wouldn’t be really appropriate to share with everyone, at all times.


    Here is where we move into the ambiguity of being the person we want to be.


    If we only told the truth, what was absolutely real for us at all times to everyone, in every situation, there is a good chance we would alienate ourselves from those around us.


    Imagine going in and telling your personal business to everyone at work, regardless of the details, in an effort to be entirely transparent and honest and open.


    Doesn’t seem like a good idea.


    But, there is someone that it may be in our long term best interest to share who we are with.


    Let’s just take a moment and talk about what I mean by the idea of who we are.


    We present a picture of who we are to those around us. Our work has a picture, that we choose to show them, of who we are. Church has a picture of who we are, based on what we choose to show them. Our Children have a presented view of who we are, based on things we share with them. Thiers is a more intimate and real view, but it isn’t the most real view.


    Then there is our spouse. He or she will know who we are the most of anyone, usually.


    Once we peel the layers away and stop showing people what we want them to know about us, we are left with just who we are when we are alone with ourselves.

    This is your personality at its core. This is who you are at your core. This is the place where there are things that you know about yourself, that maybe no other person knows. It is the place where we put the things that are the most true about us. (this isn’t to say those things can’t change, it’s just where that reality is).


    This is who we are.


    D – In an ideal world, The person that we can share this stuff with is our partner, our spouse. It really boils down to how intimate we want to be. Some of us really don’t want intimacy in our lives. What we really want is a relationship where you tell me I’m awesome and I tell you that you’re awesome. We don’t really want our partner to tell us what is really going on because it is scary.


    We talked about this last week on other-validation.


    Z - To create the greatest intimacy in our lives, we need to be willing to stop self-presenting to them and start self-disclosing.


    To create the intimacy that is the most fulfilling, we must be willing to take a risk. The risk of being rejected by others.


    A good way to explain this is to take us all back to high school.


    If you are like me, you might have been interested in certain things in high school that would have labeled you.


    You might have been labeled a nerd if you liked star wars or star trek. You might have been a popular kid that worried that if others knew how much you liked band you’d lose credibility. All the things that you liked that you worried that your friends might make fun of you for any reason and you wouldn’t share because it was too much of a risk. That is what I’m talking about.


    Often we think there are only two outcomes.



    People could reject you, judge you, and never talk to you again. Or they would be just like you. They would love it too. And it would deepen your friendship.


    This all sounds so shallow. But it was real I think for most people.


    Now think of the things that you keep from your wife or husband that you think would make them reject you.


    The things that you feel like you are keeping from them to “protect” them from you. From the real person that you are when you are alone with yourself.


    Self-disclosure is a really scary thing when it comes to pornography use. Overcoming pornography, is a struggle in and of itself, but telling others about it can be debilitating. It is fraught with a deep and real fear of being rejected.


    Here’s the thing. If you want to be successful at overcoming pornography, you need to have the skill of being real with your partner. Being the person that you really are with them.


    One of the reasons that I believe that men and women turn to pornography is that they are afraid of rejection and pornography never tells them no. It never says that your ideas are unacceptable. It never rejects what you want.


    One of the reasons that we are often afraid of intimacy and self-disclosure is because our partner and others around us are not only capable of telling us no, they do it regularly.


    One of the reasons that we are not able to eliminate pornography is that this thing we do, even if we talk about it after we have done it, is just ours. It belongs to no one else when we are doing it. And it never rejects us.


    To be capable of overcoming pornography and entering into a deeper intimacy with our partner, we have to be willing to brave that rejection, sometimes endure it’s intense feelings, evaluate whether it is worth it, and still choose our partner.


    Improving marital intimacy when overcoming pornography - The Secret to Intimacy Series: Chapter 3 of 5 Feb 13, 2022
    Show notes

    The concept of validation is not a complicated one, but it is a huge part of how we show up in our lives and how we can understand how to better feel the love that we want for ourselves.

    The way we seek validation will also help us understand how pornography has been playing a part in our self soothing process.

    I am going to lean on Dr. David Schnarch’s book “Passionate Marriage” for the definitions of these two concepts and then we are going to talk about what they mean in the context of pornography and marriage.

    Other-validated intimacy involves the expectation of acceptance, empathy, validation, or reciprocal disclosure from our partner.


    Self validated intimacy relies on a person maintaining their own sense of identity and self-worth when disclosing, with no expectation of acceptance or reciprocity from their partner. our capacity for self-validated intimacy is directly related to our level of our ability to maintain a clear sense of ourselves when our loved ones are pressuring us to conform to their views, wants, or expressed desires. It is the tangible product of our relationship with ourself.


    So, let’s talk about other-validated intimacy and how that might be keeping you from being successful in eliminating a pornography habit.


    When we expect our partner to give back to us as much or more than we are giving them, we are engaging in what Dr. David Glover calls in his book, “No more Mr. Nice Guy” a covert contract.


    This is our way of trying to get our partner to tell us that we are enough for them.


    I used to do this all the time with foot rubs and back rubs for Darcy. When I wanted her to reciprocate with sex or love I would do things for her to make it so she was supposed to give back to me.


    I also did this with things like house work. I would do everything so I could take off her plate any excuses she might have for saying no to me later.


    I did this so she would validate me with sex.


    This covert contract was about expecting something from her that she was not offering freely because she wanted to give it.


    D – and when he would do this I would …. Tell your feelings about this here.


    D – Give an example of how you would seek validation from me. – we never talk – this was a regular refrain, even when we had spent all day together the previous day. I was seeking for Zach to tell me I was enough, accepted.


    What we are doing when we seek other-validated intimacy is asking our partner to manage our sense of whether or not we are OK.


    One of the reasons, that I believe men and women turn to pornography is that there is nothing we can’t ask for that won’t be given in that space. It is almost a total free for all. It is self-gratifying and other-validating, even when those others are not present physically, mentally, or even willingly.


    This is just an idea that occurs to me, but it makes sense, at least from one position. Pornography validates us regardless of how we feel and regardless of whether we are acting with integrity. When we deal with real people, in real time, over real issues, we are constantly at risk of being rejected.


    This is one of the central things that I believe makes pornography so appealing on a different level than just aroused by it. Pornography never rejects us. It never says that what we want is not available. It never says, “I’m not comfortable doing that” or “I’m tired, can we just snuggle” or “I’m upset with the way you treated me”


    This is a counterfeit other-validation that is available at the tips of our fingers at all hours of the day and night.


    Whereas, to be self-validated and to have self-validated intimacy, we must be able to maintain our own sense of identity without requiring others to affirm it. We must be willing to disclose who we are when we are alone with ourselves without requiring that others reciprocate.


    This is a fine line. Be clear. If we go off into the land of “I don’t care what anyone thinks and I’m gonna do what I want because I’m never wrong” that’s not a healthy place and not what I’m talking about here. Please don’t mistake what I’m saying here.


    Self-validated intimacy is about being able to choose closeness with our partner or others, while simultaneously maintaining our sense of self.


    This is a dance of being in relation to others because we want to while being solid in ourselves.


    The most clear example of this that I can give to pornography viewers who are in relationships is from my own life.


    When Darcy would come to me and ask me, have you been clean and I would answer yes, and she would follow up with, well how do I know. I could see that she wanted me to validate her.


    In past times, I might have tried to convince her or just fold into her insecurities by working extra hard to prove that I was a good husband.


    But as I became clear that I was doing what was right and that I didn’t need to prove it to her, in fact, that I couldn’t prove it to her, it became clear that my answers needed to be about me.


    Instead of saying things to manage her emotions and try to prove my innocence, I would instead say, “I can’t prove it to you. I just know that I am doing the right things.”


    It was an unsatisfying answer for her and for me.


    It lived in ambiguity. Which is one of the reasons why I think true intimacy, the kind that lives in self-validation and the choice to be near our partner can sometimes elude us.


    Those of us who want true intimacy in our lives are going to need to get comfortable in this place of uncomfortable ambiguity. Where we chose to understand that our sense of self is essential to our relationships with others.


    Next week we are going to talk more about this when we talk about differentiation and enmeshment.


    But for this week, if I can give you one thing to take away from this conversation it would be to look at how often you are looking outside yourself to determine if who you are, what you are doing, and how you are relating to the world around you is ok.


    For example, I had one client say, “I try to think about everything I’m saying in a way that it will make it so my wife takes it in the best possible light, so as not to upset her or create a bigger argument”.


    Everything that client is doing is to gain validation from his partner while simultaneously he is losing himself in her view of the world.


    A self-validated person would speak honestly and clearly about what he believes to be true, while holding space open for meaningful dialogue around what might be better than what he believes to be true. He would be choosing closeness, not sameness or conformity. He would be choosing honest discussion, not shying away from meaningful disagreement.


    As Dr. Schnarch says in Passionate Marriage, Intimacy is the two-prong process of confronting yourself, (which we talked about last week) and self-disclosing to your partner from a position of working to be self- validated


    -


    Overcome Pornography Through Self Confrontation -The Secret to Intimacy Series: Chapter 2 of 5 Feb 06, 2022
    Show notes

    Part two of our 5 part series on Love and what it looks like to really be lovable, loving, and to love one’s self.

    David schnarch talks about self confrontation and other confrontation

    • Engage with our behavoirs in a meaningful way from an objective place.

    One of the keys to love is the capacity to confront who we are. Now, this isn’t to say that you aren’t inherently loved or lovable. But, there is an element of growth that seems to be required for each of us to love ourselves. I think one of the keys to loving yourself is having a sense that you are growing and leaning in into the discomfort of becoming more than what you are now.

    It also requires that we hear the truthful parts of what others are able to observe and point out to us.


    This is a skill that requires a capacity to not just endure the discomfort of the process of confronting who you are, but even to lean into that discomfort.


    So, let’s just take a moment to define what it means to self confront and be confronted by others in ways that are growth and love promoting.


    The process of confronting your behavior is simple but can be difficult to face if you are unwilling to be objective about what is going on and your worth in relation to what is going on.


    In order to self confront, you’ll need to see your behavior clearly and objectively. Meaning that you fully understand or are seeking to fully understand what you are doing. This is as simple as acknowledging what the behavior is by describing it dispassionately, and without layering in judgments that you might be using to beat yourself up with.


    Darcy and I were talking to a couple who we’ve been coaching and one of their experiences recently was a conversation in which the husband let his spouse know that he had viewed pornography. As they discussed the situation, the husband became more and more distraught, in a sense, to convey how much he was not pleased with his own behavior. He worked to manage his wife’s experience of his actions by being more upset about the situation than she was.


    This is an example of not being clear and objective about your behavior. That’s not to say there is no room for passionate discourse or even deeply felt emotions. It is to say, managing our partner is not part of clearly acknowledging where you are. It is hard to be objective about what is going on when you are working to manage others’ feelings.


    So how do we engage with an internal process of evaluating our behaviors? We go into this in the membership, which you can join anytime by going to zachspafford.com and there are workbooks that you can use in there to really get in deep on this .


    But first you’ll want to start by recognizing that the high emotions are sometimes ways of .


    Often, we want to hold our ground and defend where we are because it feels safer than confronting our actions openly.


    Second, you’ll need to be objective about what that behavior’s outcomes are, how they are impacting you, and how they might be impacting those around you. You can do this by being willing to look downstream from where you are and acknowledging the results in the eyes of others and even acknowledging the effects you’ve been working to ignore or hide from.


    Many of us do this well in other parts of our lives. For instance, at work you might be really good at looking downstream and seeing what the effects are. But when it comes to your relationship with your partner or yourself, it is not uncommon to be unwilling to see what we’re doing based on the way it will end up later.


    I know, for me, darcy and I were having a discussion in the shower just a couple of nights ago and she was pointing something out to me, something that I didn’t want to see. At that moment, I had a choice. I could get defensive, push back and say that she was wrong or that I didn’t see it that way, which until she said something, was somewhat true. Or I could listen for the truth that she was trying to convey to me. Even if I didn’t agree with every part of what she was saying.


    I was able to see the important parts of what she was saying.


    Sometimes we want to argue a point that may have been indicated by our partner but isn’t the actual issue at hand.


    One of the men I work with said this to me about the discussions he has with his wife. “I rarely say the right thing.” This was an indicator to me, based on that phrase and some other data that I have, that his partner is keen to pick up on anything that isn’t quite right in his phrasing and hold that up for examination, rather than get into the parts where she is being confronted.


    If this is how you are reacting to what your partner has to say, picking apart the little things to avoid the more important issue, then its time to step back and see what is being said from a kind and open place.


    In the example of Darcy and I chatting in the shower, I could have let my anxieties about how she might see me or how I don’t like being wrong put me into attack mode. Picking apart her argument and digging in my heals.


    Rather than do that, I took a moment to look at her thoughts and seek to find any truth in them. And even work to make her argument for her.


    Why don’t we want to confront ourselves or have others confront us?


    Because we don’t like the invalidating feelings that brings into our lives. Next week we are going to talk about self-validation and validation from others. But for the purpose of this weeks engagement on love, just being aware that this confrontation of our realities, statements, and behaviors is not about designing ways to hurt or jar ourselves or others into changing. This is about loving ourselves and others enough to see how what we might be doing is not living up to our highest potential.


    As you do the hard work of self confrontation and listing when another person, usually the person you trust the most, offers you ideas or their thoughts about what might be going on for you, be aware that you’ll probably want to deflect from what you see and hear.


    If you can, lean into it. If you can, be clear that only by going through it, will you succeed at being the person you want to be.


    I think it is also really important to be kind to yourself and your partner when this is happening.


    It really isn’t as effective to come in from a hard place and go through the process of telling your partner off. That is more likely to create conflict than the self confrontation that is results and growth oriented.


    I think it’s also really important to be willing to be patient with the things we offer. I can think of a couple of examples in our lives where Darcy has offered me some feedback that I wasn’t willing to hear at the time. And she would step back from it, let me be, and re-offer it at a later time that seemed appropriate. I think I’ve done the same for her.


    Confrontation is not about conflict or being right, but being willing to find truth.


    Kindness is essential.


    Patience will be rewarded.


    Leaning in will help you succeed.


    Reorganize to Overcome Pornography - The Secret to Intimacy Series: Chapter 1 of 5 Jan 30, 2022
    Show notes

    The path to greater freedom. Four part series.

    For the month of february we are going to talk about Love - but not in the way that you think…

    This month, love is going to be about our capacity for great freedom if we are willing to love and be loved through the process of understanding some concepts that you may not be familiar with. We are going to talk about How to use these concepts to improve your ability to love and feel loved by others will be a central focus of our conversations around these concepts. Our goal is to help you choose yourself and be able to choose your partner.

    A lot of you listen to this podcast in order to move past a pornography struggle. Each of these concepts is fundamental to the integrative process of becoming the person you want to be who doesn’t turn to pornography.


    Darcy - For those of you who have a partner who struggles with pornography each of these concepts is just as fundamental for you to work through in order to create the dynamic that you want to create. They will help you engage with your partner around their pornography struggle and show up as the person you want to be in all of your life, not just your family’s pornography struggle.


    Zach - These are the topics we are going to cover over the next 5 weeks.


    Meaning frames - Disorganization - Reorganizing with integrity

    Meaning frames are the way we look at the world in order to make it make sense to us.


    In each relationship we have, we create meaning frames that help us determine the way we are to act when we are alone, engage with others in our lives, and assure our place within a group.


    Many of our meaning frames are built into our theology and are perpetuated by our family of origin. For instance, in my household, when I was growing up and as I have become and grown in adulthood, my meaning frames have referenced the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. This meaning frame has given me a way to interpret the realities of life in ways that serve me and my family and help me make sense of the life I lead.


    We all have meaning frames that we bring into our relationships that help us manage our life through lenses that provide meaning and value.


    In most LDS homes, pornography viewing is seen through a meaning frame of it being always destructive, personally, professionally, and theologically. This makes pornography an always off limits type of behavior. Those who engage with it, then find themselves deeply ashamed of their actions.


    Darcy - The family, especially the wives of those who engage with pornography, find themselves just as deeply ashamed of the pornography use for different reasons. Including the idea that “I am not enough” if he uses that behavior to entertain himself, self soothe, or escape his emotions.


    Zach - Either way, the meaning frames we bring to our relationships are the lens we use to help us see the behaviors and realities of our lives.


    Each meaning frame that we have does at least one thing for us. It gives us a way to see the world on a given topic.


    What this looks like can often be a black and white way of viewing a behavior that can isolate us or others because we are not conforming properly to that meaning frame.


    When we encounter someone who is not properly conformed to the meaning frame we have and that we assumed they shared is a disorganization of thought and meaning.


    Darcy, what went on for you when you found out that I was viewing pornography?


    Darcy - Talk about how you thought I was one thing only to find out that I was someone else. And how that threw your whole sense of self and sense of me into disarray.


    What does that mean about my family? What about our salvation? What else might he be lying about? Am I not good enough? Is he not happy with me, satisfied with me? What does this mean for our future? Am I going to end up as a single mother like all the other women who ended up divorced because of pornography?


    Zach - When our sense of a particular meaning frame is disorganized it creates a lot more questions than what we have answers for in that moment.


    It is anxiety inducing and as a result can raise the conflict in the home and internally. As you struggle to recreate a new sense of how to organize around this issue, it is helpful to know that you don’t have to have all the answers all up front. It is also helpful to know that Darcy and I specialize in guiding you through that process.


    Within the membership 4 wednesday’s each month we help people navigate these questions and reorganize with integrity around what they want for themselves and their marriage.


    Reorganizing with integrity is the process of creating a new way of looking at the problem in order to account for greater nuance, understanding, and grace within the relationship.


    The reality of meaning frames is that we decide what they look like.


    We get to make them into what we want them to look like.


    Darcy - More importantly, we get to create the meaning frames that serve us and align with our values.


    Darcy - When it comes to reorganizing meaning frames around pornography we often see spouses using a betrayal model of meaning.


    Darcy - This looks like putting yourself in a near perpetual state of victimhood to your spouse's actions.


    Zach - This is not to say that the reality of finding out that your partner has not lived up to your implicit or explicit meaning frame is not a traumatic experience. On the contrary, being aware that this is disorganizing, traumatic, and emotional is an important part of rebuilding a new meaning frame that serves and allows us to grow.


    Zach - For you, when you found out that I was looking at pornography, what kind of trauma did that create for you?


    Darcy -


    Zach - Once you were able to acknowledge that trauma, what did you do to leave victimhood and move into an empowered place that allowed you to reorganize our relationship in more meaningful ways?


    Zach - when you think of the new meaning frame that you have around pornography, what does that look like?


    Darcy - Answer and then - what is your new meaning frame around pornography?


    Zach - I think everyone really needs to look at this for themselves and see how they want to show up. For me, the idea that this is a struggle that I know you’ll help me with is one of those things that I see as our new meaning frame. To be real about this, I don’t know that I’ve ever said this to you before, but I struggled being honest around this issue with you in the past because I was really afraid of disappointing you, how you would react, and of how those things would hurt me. I didn’t want to talk about porn because I was trying to protect myself, which might be an obvious statement, but it wasn’t the same as if I came to you and told you I was having any other struggle.

    Ep



    Self-confrontation - other confrontation


    Self-validation - other validation


    Being known - self-presentation


    Differentiation - enmeshment








    Couples overcoming pornography - Client Interview - Eric and Jackie Jan 23, 2022
    Show notes

    If you are looking for help in eliminating pornography from your marriage, this podcast is for you.

    Zach and Darcy Spafford helped Eric and Jackie overcome pornography in their marriage.

    Visit zachspafford.com to set up your 30 minuter consult with Zach or Darcy.


    Will I Ever Be Enough Jan 16, 2022
    Show notes

    For a lot of my life I had a very real sense that I was not very important in my family. As the 4th child in a family of five, early on I observed my needs as being secondary to those of my older siblings or my parents or my little sister.

    This is just the way things work in large families and small families. The truth is that every child, as they grow up, experiences things that create narratives that they internalize as their reality of who they are.


    For me, one of the things that I felt and struggled with was this sense that I was not enough to merit someone paying attention to me and spending the time with me that I wanted them to spend.


    It really didn’t matter what I was doing or how successful I was in sports, drama, or school my parents were busy and, in my mind at least, didn’t show up as often as I thought they should.


    This perception, whether it was true or not, helped my forming mind create a sense that I was not enough.


    This affected the relationship that I have with Darcy and how pornography helped soothe me through parts of our life.


    On the 94 freeway headed north as we left the Chicago temple when Darcy and I were first married Darcy made a comment about my driving. I reacted in a way that was not kind, was not safe, and not how I would want to show up in the rest of my life.


    I got upset, angry with her characterization of my driving. I felt like I was being attacked for doing my best and that no matter what I did, it would never be enough.


    Fast forward maybe 15 years, heading south from a trip up to Salt Lake, Darcy made another comment about my driving. Again, upset, frustrated, and defensive I proceeded to let Darcy know that I didn’t think her characterization of my driving was fair. After all, I was doing my best and clearly, she didn’t appreciate everything I do to make her life happy, safe, and stable.


    I was, once again, not enough.


    You might have similar stories, your stories might differ in details, but feel the same.


    One of the reasons that I turned to to pornography was it’s extraordinary ability to bring me to a place where I was always enough.


    In the world of pornography, you can be with any woman, regardless of your talent, abilities, or money.


    In the world of pornography, the women you are with are willing to do anything with, for, and because of you. They want you, the same way you want them.


    You don’t have to prove you’re a good match, capable of caring for them and your children. You don’t even have to know anything about them, and they want you.


    Being wanted, unconditionally the way pornography makes you feel is possible is a powerful sensation.


    In the world of pornography, you are always enough, for as long as you can make the fantasy last.


    After that second driving incident, Darcy and I met with our friend Dr. Larry Bradley. In that session, he mentioned two things that have made a significant difference in our lives.


    He helped me see that I was carrying around this idea that I wasn’t enough and that I can never do enough to please the people in my life.


    He also helped Darcy that the narrative that she learned for herself was that “I’m not lovable.”

    So, just to re-clarify. This isn’t a story about how bad our parents were or how they didn’t do enough for us and how we are damaged beyond repair and it’s all their fault.


    What Darcy and I experienced is a normal process that young minds go through to understand and manage their expectations in the world they are presented with.


    What we had to do, and continue to do in our marriage and lives, is become aware of how our brains were offering us a narrative that we weren’t good enough and that was hindering our long-term happiness.


    One of the ideas that most of us take into marriage is that our partner is there to validate us and help us feel complete.


    For me, I wanted Darcy to tell me that I was doing enough in all my efforts.


    For Darcy, She wanted me to act in ways that made her feel loved above all else.


    We go into our marriages with a sense that our partner is supposed to be there to complete us and when that doesn’t happen, we often find ways to manage that sense of not being enough.


    For many of the men and women who are listening to this podcast, that means escaping into a world where you are made to feel enough without exception.


    Now, you might be listening to this and think, oh, so the solution is for zach to be more loving and do the things that make Darcy feel lovable. And for Darcy to be more expressive of her belief that Zach is doing enough and that he is always doing his best in everything he does and to never criticise him for what he does that she doesn’t like.


    But at the same time, if you live in the real world, you know that always being on guard to protect your partner’s fragile sense of self in ways that are always validating and uplifting is not only an impossible task, it would be mind-numbingly exhausting.


    Here we arrive and we have this story in our heads about how we are not enough. Most of us use behaviors that feel good and temporarily meet our desires to feel enough. And most of those behaviors that we use create long-term negative effects in our lives which perpetuate the sense that we are not enough. Many of us have gotten married, working to integrate ourselves with another person so that they can help fill that gap in our lives, which doesn’t work, which only deepens our sense that we aren’t enough.


    If you are recognizing this in your life, you’re not alone. And you’re probably wondering what do I do to move past this downward spiral of never being enough in your own mind and in your actions.


    Let me give you two concrete things that you can do in your life to create a process of escaping this downward spiral.


    First, face up to your behaviors.


    When Darcy was asking me to slow down or drive more safely, she was putting something in front of me that she found to be undesirable behavior.


    Once that is done, I have to have a mechanism within me that allows me to evaluate that behavior on its merits and based on who I want to be in my life.


    Facing my behavior means that I’m not looking at that behavior through a lens of whether it is acceptable among others or if it has been tolerated in the past.


    It means evaluating my actions in light of my values and my desire to be a more complete person.


    Driving is a fairly small example, but pornography or overeating is often more impactful.


    As Darcy and I progressed, there were occasions where she would find something that wasn’t pornography but that was me following links that included bikini pictures or other material that I would not have been proud to explain to others that I was looking at.


    In her best moments, Darcy was able to engage with me in a conversation about that particular behavior or incident without making it mean anything about her. She would ask me, is this who you want to be?


    This is a really great question when confronting your own behavior.


    When we ask this question without judging ourselves we can look at the behavior objectively and compassionately. We can see it for what it is, a way to manage our sense of discomfort. And we can evaluate it in terms of how it integrates into the whole person we want to be when we are alone and with others.


    In other words, when you find or your partner points out behaviors that don’t seem to be part of the whole picture you have of yourself take a step back from defending it. Allow yourself to be objective about it. Imagine how it might feel to live without it.


    Facing your behavior and dropping judgment isn’t easy. It is a really uncomfortable and meaningful process.


    Second, let go of caretaking your partner and other equals.


    This is something that a lot of men do, and I did, to try and keep Darcy happy. Darcy also did this to try and keep me happy, but more, to keep me from turning to pornography.


    Caretaking our partner is about hiding from them what is real and true for us.


    For me, I would do this by lying about my pornography viewing behaviors. I would also do this by giving up what I wanted to show her that her needs and wants were more important than mine.


    She would do this by engaging with me sexually even when she didn’t want to, in order to try to manage my pornography viewing.


    Working to manage our partner emotionally and physically is frustrating for both parties in the long run.












    Goals Can Be Traps Jan 09, 2022
    Show notes

    If you are looking to end a pornography struggle and don't know where to turn, then this podcast is for you.

    In this episode you'll learn 3 keys that you can use to leave pornography behind.

    zachspafford.com

    Episode 123 –

    100k downloads


    Scholarships as a thank you to JFF as we mentioned last episode – follow us on Instagram so you see the link for the application


    This month in the membership we are talking about Porn is not The problem.


    This Christmas had a note from eric and Jackie – we did a client interview with them episode 62 in nov 2020, they are doing so well. If you want to go back to that one and listen, you’ll get an idea of the amzing changes that can come to your life working with darcy and I


    They are such an amazing couple. They just messaged us in dec and that were doing super well.


    One of the things that we got over Christmas was one of those Chinese finger traps.


    You know, the ones that you can put your fingers into and then once your fingers are in there, if you pull they get trapped.


    And for a really good one of those, the harder you pull the tighter it grips you.


    This year as all of us are setting goals and laying out resolutions we really need to take time to recognize that a lot of these goals can be like that Chinese finger trap.


    The more we resist and fight with what we don’t want in our lives, the more that thing grips and holds on to us.


    The only way to get out of them is to lean into back into the trap and release its hold. It is a lot like a snare used for catching rabbits.


    So, what does that look like when it comes to pornography and other unwanted habits.


    Much like the finger trap, the more you resist your unwanted habit, the more it seems to be a struggle to get away from it.


    Simply put, if you are going to get away from this trap you are going to need to see what it is that you need to lean into, to start allowing that habitual trap to loosen up and let you walk free.


    1 To do this you’ll need first to recognize that you have a response ability. You have the ability to respond to the underlying reason that you have been turning to this habit.


    Learn what those reasons are. Ask yourself, why am I using this habit to avoid my life?


    Most of the people I work with find that the reason they are using an unwanted habit to avoid their life or buffer is that they feel uncomfortable.


    This comes in a variety of ways, including the regular, if unpleasant emotions of loneliness, being tired, stressed, frustrated, entitled, and any other negative emotion you can name.


    Once you learn what the underlying reason is for your habit, you can now begin to exercise your response ability.


    Respond to that emotion differently. In my membership we work on a variety of techniques to do this, including simple meditations, but no matter what you do, experimenting to respond to that emotion differently really needs to include leaning into it and allowing it to exist without resistance.


    2 Then next thing you need to do is not freak out if it doesn’t work perfectly the first time.


    Like an animal caught in a snare, the freak out is the think that keeps you trapped.


    When mistakes are made, create an honest, open dialogue with your partner that can help you see the situation for what it is. And learn from what happened.


    When we catastrophize and act as though we will never be free from this behavior, we really do get snared and trapped.


    3 finally, this last thing that you can do, rather than set goals that might be Chinese finger traps, let’s re-view our values, reassess how they fit into our lives, and reprioritize them as we see fit.


    In episodes, 108 and 109 I go into depth on how goals and values interact and how you can more fully live your values in ways that help you succeed in the long run.


    One of the things that I talk about there is that goals are about a finite timeline. Meaning that when we have a goal, we can be really good at focusing in on it until that moment is achieved in our minds. Weight loss is a great example of this. If you have ever tried to lose a certain amount of weight, reached your target only to find that in the next days, weeks, and months, you fall back to old ways of eating and gain the weight back and maybe a couple extra pounds.


    This is an example of how goals exercised in the name of willpower can be detrimental, whereas values are more about who we are.


    Living your values means that they are done in the here and now, and the here and now never goes away. So, if I eat healthy because one of my values is to eat healthy then I’m more likely to live my life based on who I am, not what I’m supposed to achieve.


    Whereas, with goals, once the achievement has been made, our focus shifts and we move on to another goal.












    Jennifer Finlayson-Fife Joins Us To Talk About Betrayal Trauma, Porn, Infidelity, and Sex Jan 02, 2022
    Show notes

    In this interview we discuss questions about sex, infidelity, and how to begin looking into who you are and how you can move forward.

    If you are struggling to finally quit pornography, this is the podcast for you.

    If you would like help with your betrayal trauma, set up some time with Darcy at zachspafford.com/thestuff



    Accountability Apps Dec 26, 2021
    Show notes

    In this episode we discuss the accountability app question of one of my clients and help him come to a place where he is living his best life without pornography.

    If you have struggled with pornography and are ready to quit, this is the podcast for you. Porn affects so many men and women and now you have a way to quit for good and forever.

    Come listen to Zach and, when you are ready, sign up for his once a year Group Coaching by clicking HERE.

    Overcome porn for good in your life and become the man or woman you want to be in 2022!

    Check us out at zachspafford.com


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