The Policy Nerd, by UNESCO

Latest Episodes:

Data value: to share, or not to share Sep 13, 2023

Show notes

Diane Coyle, Professor of Public Policy at the University of Cambridge and Director of the Productivity Institute, talks to us about data value. She explains how good (or bad) we are at capturing such value and why we need to start distributing it amongst all actors involved in its co-creation. Diane tackles the key issue of whether/what share of that monetary and non-monetary value should flow back to both governments and individuals. Listen closely to her discussion with UNESCO’s Iulia Sevciuc on all this.

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Social safety nets catch us in crisis, invest in those Aug 14, 2023

Show notes

Nadia Calviño, Vice-President and Minister for Economy and Digitalization of Spain, talks to us about inequalities, and how our exit from the current crises is through closing the most gaping divides. She says there are solutions, with Spain’s minimum subsistence income being an example of such. She also warns that it is not only the physical world we must be paying close attention to. If unchecked, the fast-emerging economies of data and AI can give rise to new, digital haves and have-nots. We should strive for a humanistic digitalization. How to bring all these about? Find the answers in her discussion with Gabriela Ramos, UNESCO’s Assistant Director-General for Social and Human Sciences.

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We embraced dysfunctional growth, change course Jul 06, 2023

Show notes

Mariana Mazzucato, professor at University College London and a bestselling author, explains how the current systems are geared towards the pursuit of dysfunctional – i.e., financialised, consumption-led, climate-damaging – growth. They are also designed to fail, operating in a fixing and reactive rather than proactive mode. The present crises are clear lessons for all. The direction has to change and the systems require re-shaping to fit that purpose. Mazzucato does not stop at diagnosing problems. She explains that there are concrete levers to be employed in this shift. First, public procurement is a powerful instrument at the disposal of governments – big and small – that needs to become outcome-oriented to deliver against common needs, such as the green transition or zeroing the digital divide. Second, investments have to be structured around real collective intelligence and reward sharing, rather than extractive relationships between the parties that have been witnessed throughout the COVID-19 crisis and beyond. Third, a common good and portfolio mindset is required on the public investment side so that access and rewards are shared as equitably as the risks have been taken. Listen to Mazzucato as she addresses the UNESCO MOST Forum and details these solutions.

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Recalibrate - our policies were too heavy on efficiency, too light on equity Jun 14, 2023

Show notes

Douglas Elmendorf, Dean of Harvard Kennedy School, tells us what it would take to reset equitably after COVID-19, how herd thinking (amongst experts and beyond) hurts us and why trust in science is to be restored if the intent is to move ahead smartly. He says that we’ve been focusing too much on efficiency and not enough on equity. That has to change. But how? Listen to his discussion with Gabriela Ramos, UNESCO’s Assistant Director General for Social and Human Sciences.

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Polarisation kidnapped science, the price is paid by all Jun 03, 2023

Show notes

Peter Gluckman, the President of the International Science Council and the former Chief Science Advisor to the Prime Minister of New Zealand, came on to discuss how polarisation has infiltrated science and is tearing up the public trust in it. He says that the acceptance (or rejection) of scientific conclusions has become an ideological badge of identity. Social media only adds to it, overloading the public with (mis)information we are not yet equipped to navigate. There are many solutions, but underneath it all is the fundamental task of restoring civil discourse. We need to be able to talk – in agreement or disagreement – again. Can we do that? Find out in his discussion with Gabriela Ramos, UNESCO’s Assistant Director-General for Social and Human Sciences.

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From ivory towers to glass houses, science is transforming May 18, 2023

Show notes

Gloria Origgi, Director of Research at the CNRS in Paris, tells us that science is power and public trust in it is key. There is no hiding – science is now part of participatory democracy and requires changing from within towards new forms of legitimation (beyond the ivory tower of a community of peers) and inclusion of the public. Critically, she says people need hands-on help to navigate the world of experts and expertise, to understand who is the real deal and who manufactures misinformation, and to ultimately decide who to put their trust in. Follow closely her discussion with UNESCO’s Iulia Sevciuc on these and so much more.

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From reactive to proactive: Shaping AI for a just future Feb 08, 2023

Show notes

Vilas Dhar, president of the Patrick McGovern Foundation and a leading voice on global AI policy, discusses how rapid and profound technological advancements, particularly in artificial intelligence, are reshaping society at an unprecedented pace. He highlights the need to move from reactive to anticipatory policy approaches, focusing on equity, dignity, and inclusivity. Dhar stresses the risks posed by AI, including its potential misuse and the dangers of concentrated power in homogeneous decision-making circles. He calls for embedding ethics into technology design and fostering participatory governance, while also emphasizing the importance of broad digital literacy so that all stakeholders can actively shape the future of technology. He also argues for public investment in technology development to create inclusive outcomes. At the heart of the discussion is a call for a moral economy that prioritizes human agency, rights, and shared prosperity, ensuring that technological progress aligns with human values. This requires a rejection of simplistic narratives and a deeper understanding of the complex implications of AI.

How can these goals be achieved? Find out in his conversation with Gabriela Ramos, UNESCO’s Assistant Director-General for Social and Human Sciences.

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Universal Basic Services vs. Universal Basic Income - let's talk May 10, 2022

Show notes

This podcast is on Universal Basic Services (UBS). The experts are Anna Coote of the New Economics Foundation and Maeve Cohen of the Social Guarantee Network. The host is UNESCO’s Iulia Sevciuc.
Thread 1 untangles the agenda of UBS, going into the:
- Premises – what is the core of UBS and how it should be approached as a framework rather than a stand-alone policy?
- Targets – why are equity, sustainability and gender so tightly linked to UBS and how would UBS deliver against such objectives?
Thread 2 talks UBS vs UBI, discussing the:
- Framing – why is the debate being framed as UBI vs UBS and how deep does the competition run within the fiscal space and beyond?
- Now and later – could UBI, as a single policy with immediate turnaround effects, be the solution for the urgency of the current crises and UBS, and as a complex suite of policies with results in the medium- to long-term, be the solution for later?
- Contexts – could UBS be more fit for countries with a stronger baseline of (state/collectively provided) services, while UBI could be more appropriate for countries without this baseline?
- Politics of policy-making – what are the chances of UBI “winning” through support from across the political spectrum and UBS facing pushback due to the perception of increased government intervention?
Thread 3 is about knowledge and policy. It speaks to:
- Knowledge producers – where are the gaps in data and evidence on UBS?
- Policymakers – what are the key messages on UBS that deserve greater attention?

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We politicised science and scientised politics – is that a problem? Apr 14, 2022

Show notes

Gil Eyal, Professor of Sociology at Columbia University, talks to us about trust in science, trust in expertise, and the slow demise of such. He explains that not all science is equal and neither is public trust in it. Regulatory science is what underpins policy and collective decision-making, yet this is exactly what the public mistrusts the most. Why? It has a lot to do with the distributional effects of regulatory science (as often, there are winners and losers), the politicization of science, and the scientization of politics. Listen closely to his discussion with UNESCO’s Iulia Sevciuc about all this.

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Our relations around data are broken - why and how to fix them Mar 14, 2022

Show notes

Our thinking on the true value of data is not where it should be this far into the game. Maria Savona looks with us into the economic and social aspects of the equation, saying that all should be captured when it comes to data. Value concentration is a concern and redistribution should be on our collective mind. There are policy attempts to do so – listen closely for hands-on details – but much work remains to be done. There is a need to reimagine the relationship between individuals as data generators and data gatherers, from large platforms to public administration. Such a “contract” requires much (much) better data literacy on the side of the individuals and a deep commitment to redressing imbalances on the side of the policy makers. Last but not least, the discussion goes into COVID-19. This crisis forced us to talk about data in the context of emergency – an opportunity to understand data value but also a (hard) lesson on the role of trustworthiness and individual rights in such set ups. What comes next? Find out in her discussion with UNESCO’s Iulia Sevciuc.

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