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    Government

    The National Security Law Podcast – Bobby Chesney and Steve Vladeck

    Unpacking the Legal Issues Behind the Headlines

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    Latest Episodes:
    Episode 116: This Podcast Can Only Be Detained for Six Months Apr 02, 2019
    Show notes

    Join us as Professors Vladeck and Chesney discuss and debate the latest national security law news! This week we've got: The Adham Hassoun case: Can the government hold a terrorism-related individual in long-term immigration custody after he completes a prison sentence and while it remains unclear to which country (if any) he can be sent? The DEA's Use of Subpoena Authority to Get a Broad Set of Customer Identities from Companies Selling Cash-Counting Machines: Is this, in some sense, a bigger deal than the "bulk telephone metadata" story? The Bilal Kareem case: Can Kareem's suit (which argues the he is on a USG "kill list" in Syria and that this violates the Due Process Clause among other things) survive a motion to dismiss based on the State Secrets Privilege? SCOTUS and Cruel and Unusual Punishment: Does the Bucklew decision portend doctrinal change for the 8th Amendment, and perhaps also a "barbell" effect for the post-Kennedy Court? The Article II Take Care Clause: What is the difference between declining to enforce a statute on constitutional grounds and declining to defend it in court (and how does any such distinction apply to the White House decision to oblige DOJ not to defend the Affordable Care Act on the individual-mandate and severability issues)? And just when you think it can't get any nerdier, it's time for the frivolity--and for the Thrones Deadpool!


    Episode 115: This Podcast Does Not Have a Grandparent Born in Ireland Mar 25, 2019
    Show notes

    We are back after a spring break hiatus, and we do not lack for things to discuss and debate in the wide world of national security law. Tune in for: What we can make of the Mueller Report and the Barr Letter at this point Whether the president is subject to civil suit in state court while still in office Whether the US government loses its sovereign immunity from suit without consent where the claim involves a violation of a "jus cogens" rule of customary international law, as Judge Brinkema has ruled in al Shimari What to make of the Court of Military Commission Review's newest ruling in the Bahlul litigation, including affirmation of Bahlul's life sentence Whether Congress should pass a statute to ensure that servicemembers have a realistic path to SCOTUS review in cases of courts martial that do not result in the Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces taking their case Whether Belgium's "IHL Exclusion Clause" concept (precluding application of domestic criminal law relating to terrorism as to situations involving armed forces engaged in armed conflict) might end up precluding certain U.S. extradition requests involving material support charges Why the release from prison of John Walker Lindh (once famous as "the American Taliban") might portend a larger debate (and what does this have to do with his Irish grandmother???) And of course it would not be the same without some frivolity. We've got opinions about True Detective Season 3, traveling with infants to LA, the NCAA Tournament, and Hall and Oates. Seriously.


    Episode 114: Manafortnite Mar 13, 2019
    Show notes

    This week's show features debate and discussion between co-hosts Professors Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney regarding: Paul Manafort: comparing his first and second federal sentences, and the timing of the new New York State charges Yemen: Congress considering a bill to compel an end to US support for the Saudi-led coalition in Yemen, and the President promising a veto The Border Emergency: Congress is poised to pass a bill terminating the asserted national emergency at the border, but that too faces a certain veto The ARTICLE ONE Act: Heaven save us from awkward, forced acronyms. But perhaps don't save us from useful changes to the National Emergencies Act? The good, bad, and ...incomplete?...about the proposed "ARTICLE ONE Act." The IoT Cybersecurity Improvement Act: We've got a brief breakdown of this useful new bill. Transgender Military Service and Judicial Deference: Judges Wilkins and Williams have it out in Jane Doe 2 v. Shanahan. Habeas for Undocumented Persons in Detention? This case looms very large, and involves a circuit split. Once More Unto the Breach...with Larabee II! A Double-Jeopardy Windfall? Double-mishandling of double jeopardy in US v. Rice? Online Material Support to the Islamic State: The arrest of Kim Vo in Georgia. And then, just because these two don't know when to stop, there's the frivolity: musings about US News Rankings, debate over the college admissions bribery scandal, and a surprise appearance by ... Hall and Oates? You make-a-my dreams come true, dear listeners!


    Episode 113 – 702 : Madison :: 215 : Hamilton Mar 06, 2019
    Show notes

    So much to debate, so little time! Tune in as Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney plow through a host of recent (and not-so-recent) events in the world of national security law: Fazaga v. FBI - an important 9th Circuit decision on the interaction between the State Secrets Privilege and FISA, not to mention the question of how the reasonable expectation of privacy test might imply in the context of conversations in a mosque. The demise of the USA Freedom Act phone records program? News that the program may have been dormant for the past six months has raised some hard questions at a time when a sunset is looming for it. Chelsea Manning and possible charges against Julian Assange or Wikimedia: does this portend Computer Fraud & Abuse Act charges that might enable prosecution of Assange/Wikimedia in a manner that is less relevant for traditional journalists? President Trump's determination to override the IC's recommendations on security clearances The Senate is poised to join the House in voting to overturn the border emergency declaration, but a veto override is unlikely. The 200th anniversary of McCulloch v. Maryland Today's Executive Order in which President Trump revokes President Obama's EO 13732 Section 3 requirement of annual disclosure of airstrike numbers and civilian and combatant casualties outside of areas of active hostilities (i.e., areas other than Afghanistan, Syria/Iraq, and Somalia). As for frivolity, let's just say that Winter Is Coming on April 14, and we have a season 8 trailer to parse!


    Episode 112: And the Oscar Goes To…NSL Podcast! Feb 26, 2019
    Show notes

    The Oscars may not have a host, but we do! Tune in to our latest episode as co-hosts Steve Vladeck and Bobby Chesney debate a wide range of national security developments from the past week, including: May "ISIS bride" Hoda Muthana return to the United States? Secretary Pompeo has announced that she may not, on the ground that she is not a citizen. We review and debate a slew of issues this raises, including the legal frameworks for birthright citizenship, making determinations about citizenship status, expatriation, statelessness, and more. Should the State Department formally designate one or more drug cartels as "Foreign Terrorist Organizations," triggering an array of consequences including making 18 USC 2339B--the famous 1996 "material support" law--relevant? Is the D.C. Circuit poised to rule that the Fifth Amendment Due Process Clause (in its procedural aspect) applies at GTMO, and what clues do we glean about this from the decision to deny preemptive en banc review in Ali? Speaking of the Fifth Amendment: Does the male-only nature of Selective Service Registration violate the protection against gender discrimination located in the equal-protection aspect of the Due Process Clause, now that women can have combat roles? But these two can disagree about much more than the law. They've got opinions on the Oscars too...


    Episode 111: This National Emergency Podcast Requires the Use of the Armed Forces Feb 19, 2019
    Show notes

    Ready to dive deep, way deep, into the president's national emergency declaration and the resulting lawsuits? We've got you covered. Tune in as Professors Vladeck and Chesney tease out and debate the nuances. Along the way, enjoy updates on three interesting cert. denials today at SCOTUS as well as the suddenly-looming question of whether the 2001 AUMF's long-quiet "harboring" provision might be used to provide the domestic legal basis for military action against...Iran?


    Episode 110: This Podcast Is Not Subject to Military Jurisdiction Feb 12, 2019
    Show notes

    Your favorite weekly show combining serious debate about the latest national security legal developments with a healthy dose of frivolity is back! [ed. note: this is the only show like that, so you should delete the awkward bit where you claim this is their "favorite] This week we open at the Supreme Court: What are the stakes in the Larabee litigation concerning the recall of retired military personnel in order to subject them to court-martial jurisdiction? Is there anything to the claim in Hamidullin that U.S. courts should grant combatant immunity from prosecution to a Russian veteran who ambushed US and Afghan forces in 2009? And while we're talking SCOTUS, what was the deal with lifting a stay in a death penalty case in which a state was not in a position at that moment to provide access to a religious figure of the right persuasion during an execution? [ed. note: guys, guys...stay focused, that's not exactly a national security case] The Hamidullin case actually segues nicely [ed. note: Thank you for not writing Segway like you usually do.] to a review of the legal and other challenges that will arise if captured Islamic State fighters are taken to GTMO as part of a larger deal to resolve the fate of a large group of IS fighters currently held by SDF forces. [ed. note: I deleted the line where you made up a claim that an SDF wrote to you to say "Screw you guys in the West, we aren't going to keep holding IS fighters from your countries if you are going to pull out of Syria and leave us to the mercy of Assad, the Russians, the Iranians, the Turks, etc. Detain 'em yourselves!" No one will believe they wrote you, however accurate that sentiment may be.] Speaking of terrorists behind bars, we've also got the unbelievable situation that recently unfolded in Germany, where a guy served a (comparatively-short) sentence for involvement in a plot to kill Americans in Germany, and the United States had just unsealed an indictment charging him with crimes in Afghanistan including the death of two U.S. soldiers. Extradited to the U.S., right? No, sent to Turkey, apparently based on a double-jeopardy theory. Vas ist das? [ed. note: I changed your, ahem, more colorful sentence to the more-polite "vas ist das." Diplomacy, guys, diplomacy. After all, you don't read German and probably have the underlying facts at least partially wrong.] Well, as long as we are talking about the arrest of terrorism suspects, we've got a National Security Division update involving the arrest of two guys who were supporters of Lashkar e-Tayyiba, the Pakistan-based terrorist group responsible for the 2008 atrocity in Mumbai. One of the guys had expressed interest in training to become an executioner, particularly on the beheading side of that line of work. Next, we have a very quick run-through of the legal issues raised by Project Raven, based on the recent Reuters story describing former NSA employees working as contractors for the UAE's SIGINT service. Pro tip: If you go to work for the UAE's SIGINT service, do not act surprised when you find out they are monitoring political critics. [ed. note: This whole bit on the show was just a half-baked recap of what Bobby wrote on Lawfare here.] But you are in it for the frivolity, no? [ed. note: no, no they are not.] Excellent! Well, we've been going to concerts and watching the Grammys, and we have strong opinions about all of it! [ed. note: oh, joy, they have opinions about professional musicians. No doubt they'll ask you two to tag-team host the Grammys next year.]


    Episode 109: The State of the Podcast Is Strong! Feb 06, 2019
    Show notes

    This week on the National Security Law Podcast, we've got: A heavy pace of airstrikes against al Shabaab targets in Somalia Ruminations on declining media attention (and the prospect of a sharper dropoff soon) to things relating to GTMO A 15-year sentence in an Islamic State material support case A magistrate recommends vacating the conviction of Hamid Hayat for ineffective assistance of counsel, some thirteen years after his original conviction under the 1994 material support statute (28 USC 2339A) (in a remarkable example of that statute's potential scope, about which Bobby wrote here more than a decade ago). SCOTUS preview: The Court soon will consider the cert. petitions in Larabee (where Steve is counsel, and which raises questions about the ability of the military to recall former servicemembers to active duty in order to court martial them) and Hamidulin (where the Fourth Circuit rejected a Taliban fighter's claim of combatant immunity from prosecution). The D.C. Circuit's opinion in Klayman v. Obama, affirming dismissal of an attempt to litigate Section 215 bulk metadata collection (now superseded by the USA Freedom Act) on mootness grounds, and likewise affirming dismissal of a challenge to 702 collection on standing grounds. And then there's the Super Bowl. You'll hear more offense in our breakdown of the game, the halftime show, and the commercials than you saw in the game itself!


    Episode 108: Is It Arnold Palmer or Iced Tea-Lemonade? Jan 30, 2019
    Show notes

    Unlike Rent Live, all of our personnel participated in this week's show! We've got: The Venezuela Crisis: International Law complications with dueling recognitions More Venezuela: "5,000 Troops to Colombia" and Section 1021 of the Ronald W. Reagan NDAA FY'05 How About Some More Venezuela? The national emergency declaration that has been in place since 2015, and sanctions under it The Prospect of Peace with the Afghan Taliban: Implications for GTMO detention litigation (and looming questions of deference) From SDF Military Detention to US Criminal Prosecution: Warren Clark is now in Houston, facing charges More Terrorism Prosecutions: two other IS-related material support cases, plus big sentences in a domestic terrorism case How About Some More Terrorism Prosecutions: A post-game review of the Nashiri oral argument Dude, why is our super-secret robot arm in your bag? On the less-widely heralded Huawei prosecution More Huawei Prosecutions: Oh yeah, there's also the one where the CFO is facing extradition from Canada for fraud in re Iran sanctions Pretty Soon No One Will Fight Alongside Us: On the Danish court ruling in the Green Desert Case Round 74: Arguing about whether DNI Dan Coats should stay or resign Frivolity: Super Bowl predictions --> Super Bowl halftime shows --> the "live musical" trend --> why didn't Rent Live have an understudy??? Spread the word about our show, and be sure to give us a rating on iTunes or whichever podcast platform you prefer!


    Episode 107: Clearly Right, Once Again Jan 22, 2019
    Show notes

    Welcome back to the National Security Law Podcast! Where else can you get both a preview of a looming surveillance law debate *and* a fine-grained debate about how best for the NFL to address blown calls? Well, maybe there's no market for that...but here we are anyway! This week, we open with a review of several interesting developments at the Supreme Court, followed by updates on the issues that two separate military commission defendants (Nashiri and KSM) have placed before the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals, and then a discussion of three FISA-related authorities that expire this December. We wrap up with a short note on the legal implications of the apparent Trump Administration decision to recognize an opposition leader in Venezuela as the legitimate head of government there, and then conclude with an extensive debate about blown calls, instant replay, and overtime rules!


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