The Lawfare Podcast - The Lawfare Institute

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Rational Security: The "2nd Anniversary Hot Take Takedown" Edition Sep 10, 2023

Show notes

This week on Rational Security, Alan, Quinta, and Scott celebrated the second anniversary of Rational Security 2.0 by bringing back everyone's favorite game show edition: the Hot Take Takedown! But this year, instead of being contestants, they sat in judgment on the following hot takes from their Lawfare colleagues:

Molly Reynolds, on whether there will be a government shutdown this month;
Tyler McBrien, on what should happen with overseas U.S. troop deployments; and
Benjamin Wittes, on who will be held accountable first, Russian President Vladimir Putin or former President Donald Trump.

Which of these hot takes will be deemed too cold, which too hot, and which just right? Listen in to find out!

Meanwhile, for object lessons, Alan shared one of his new favorite uses for superfluous fruits. Quinta shared just the sort of story you expect to hear out of Burning Man: alleged Jan. 6 co-conspirator and criminal defendant Jeffrey Clark casting judgment on former Deputy Solicitor General (and beanie-wearing Burning Man attendee) Neal Katyal. And Scott urged even non-vegetarian listeners to check out the new, updated edition of Peter Singer's classic work on animal rights, "Animal Liberation Now!"

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Special Edition: Proud Boys Sentencing and Georgia Wrangling Sep 09, 2023

Show notes

It's another episode of our weekly live stream series, “Trump's Trials and Tribulations,” which takes place on YouTube each week on Thursday afternoons at 4 p.m. ET.

This week, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editor Roger Parloff and Lawfare Legal Fellow Anna Bower, to talk about the latest events in Proud Boys sentencing and in Georgia. They talked about the hefty sentences that Enrique Tarrio and other Proud Boys received this week in federal district court in Washington, about how these sentences compare to those received by Oath Keepers and other Jan. 6 perpetrators, and about the machinations in Georgia—removal, immunity, severance, and all the other stuff that is going on with poor Judge McAfee trying to deal with a 19-defendant trial.

Please join us next time by becoming a Material Supporter at our website, lawfaremedia.org/support, or subscribing to our YouTube channel.

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Lawfare Archive: Dan Hemel and Gerard Magliocca on Section 3 of the 14th Amendment Sep 09, 2023

Show notes

From January 19, 2021: In the wake of the January 6 mob attack on the Capitol, some have called for the invocation of Section 3 of the 14th Amendment. Section 3 disqualifies anyone who has engaged in rebellion or insurrection against United States from public office. In particular, critics of President Trump have seized on this as a potential way of preventing him from running in 2024. Alan Rozenshtein spoke about Section 3 with professors Daniel Hemel of the University of Chicago Law School and Gerard Magliocca of the Indiana University Robert H. McKinney School of Law.

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Cold War Intellectuals and the Making of Our Times Sep 08, 2023

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Liberalism today is under attack, as it often has been. Samuel Moyn, the Chancellor Kent Professor of Law and History at Yale University, believes that liberalism's failures, and a path to its better future, can be discerned through a study of how liberal intellectuals reacted to the rise of fascism and Nazism during the World War II period, and especially to Soviet communism during the Cold War. Jack Goldsmith sat down to talk to Moyn about his new book on the topic, “Liberalism Against Itself: Cold War Intellectuals and the Making of Our Times.” They discussed how and why Cold War liberals such as Isaiah Berlin and Gertrude Himmelfarb transformed liberalism, and why he thinks the transformation has had deleterious effects on U.S. foreign and domestic policy. They also discussed the aims of intellectual history and the relationship between his project and recent anti-liberal projects from the right.

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Chatter: A Spy in the Manhattan Project with Steve James Sep 07, 2023

Show notes

When he was 18 years old, Ted Hall, then a Harvard undergraduate, was recruited to join the Manhattan Project, becoming the youngest physicist on the U.S. team racing to build an atomic bomb before the Nazis. When it became clear that Germany would lose the war, Hall feared that the Americans might maintain a monopoly over nuclear weapons, an imbalance he thought could lead to global tyranny. So he decided to share secret designs with the Soviet Union, which was then an ally of the United States on its own path to build a bomb.

That fateful action, and the life-long consequences for Hall and his wife, Joan, are the subject of filmmaker Steve James’ new documentary, “A Compassionate Spy.” Using original interviews with members of Hall’s family, and archival footage of the now deceased physicist, James explores Hall’s motivations for sharing nuclear secrets and the FBI’s attempts to charge him with that crime. It’s a complex story about espionage, idealism, and ultimately the love between Ted and Joan that helped to keep the truth hidden for decades.

Shane Harris spoke with James about the film and his career as a documentary filmmaker. James directed several acclaimed films, including “Hoop Dreams,” “Life Itself,” and “Abacus: Small Enough to Jail.”

“A Compassionate Spy” trailer: https://participant.com/film/compassionate-spy

Steve James’ filmography: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0416945/

Also discussed in this interview:

“Mission to Moscow,” the surprising pro-Soviet film from “Casablanca” director Michael Curtiz: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0036166/?ref_=nm_flmg_t_39_dr

“Bombshell: The Secret Story of America's Unknown Atomic Spy Conspiracy,” by Joseph Albright and Marcia Kunstel https://www.amazon.com/Bombshell-Secret-Americas-Atomic-Conspiracy/dp/081292861X

The Venona program, which helped to finger Hall as a spy for Moscow

https://www.nsa.gov/Helpful-Links/NSA-FOIA/Declassification-Transparency-Initiatives/Historical-Releases/Venona/

https://www.osti.gov/opennet/manhattan-project-history/Events/1945-present/venona.htm

Chatter is a production of Lawfare and Goat Rodeo. This episode was produced and edited by Cara Shillenn of Goat Rodeo. Podcast theme by David Priess, featuring music created using Groovepad.

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Kate Hanniford on the SEC’s New Cyber Disclosure Rule Sep 07, 2023

Show notes

On July 26, the Securities and Exchange Commission adopted a final rule with new compliance and disclosure obligations surrounding material cybersecurity incidents. Lawfare Senior Editor Stephanie Pell sat down with Kate Hanniford, partner at Alston & Bird, to talk about the requirements and challenges this new rule presents. They talked about some of the problems and concerns that caused the SEC to engage in a rule-making process, when an incident rises to the level of a material cybersecurity incident, and whether the new rule is consistent with the National Cybersecurity Strategy’s goal of harmonizing disclosure and reporting requirements for companies.

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How to Implement Section 3 Disqualification, with Ned Foley and Derek Muller Sep 06, 2023

Show notes

As the 2024 presidential election inches closer, legal scholars are hotly debating whether former President Trump’s actions in relation to Jan. 6 might have disqualified him (and many others) from public office under Section 3 of the 14th Amendment. But far less attention has been given to how precisely this disqualification should be implemented so as to bring the ultimate issue to the Supreme Court for decision—preferably before the 2024 election is under way.

To discuss these issues, Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson recently sat down with two leading election law experts and friends of the podcast: Professor Ned Foley from The Ohio State University’s Moritz College of Law; and Professor Derek Muller of the University of Notre Dame Law School. They discussed how Section 3 might be interpreted, the ways it might be implemented in relation to former President Trump, and what other avenues for enforcement might apply against other people facing a similar possibility of disqualification.

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The Coming Wave Sep 05, 2023

Show notes

There is no more consequential technological development in recent years than widely accessible artificial intelligence. And there are few more consequential contemporary figures in the artificial intelligence field than Mustafa Suleyman, who is the co-founder of DeepMind Technologies, an early leading artificial intelligence firm later bought by Google, and more recently, co-founder of Inflection AI, a firm devoted to personalizing artificial intelligence.

Jack Goldsmith sat down with Suleyman to talk about his new and somewhat frightening book, “The Coming Wave: Technology, Power, and the Twenty-first Century's Greatest Dilemma,” which is his take on the novel threats posed by artificial intelligence and synthetic biology. They focused on the artificial intelligence components of the book, discussing AI's promises—and especially its dangers—to both individuals and the state, and what governments and firms can realistically do to redress the dangers.

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Lawfare Archive: Canada Takes on the Proud Boys Sep 04, 2023

Show notes

From February 12, 2021: Lost in the shuffle of an impeachment trial here in the United States was big news from Canada last week. Canada’s Minister of Public Safety added the Proud Boys to Canada’s terror entity list. The listing might be in Canada, but the group had a role in the January 6 storming of the U.S. Capitol. The listing has all sorts of interesting legal and national security implications, so Jacob Schulz talked it through with two Canadian national security experts. Jessica Davis is a former senior strategic intelligence analyst with the Canadian Security Intelligence Service who is now the president of Insight Threat Intelligence and a PhD student at the Norman Paterson School of International Affairs at Carleton University. And Leah West is an assistant professor of International Affairs at Carleton University and serves as counsel with Friedman Mansour LLP. They talked about right-wing extremism in Canada, what the consequences of the listing might be and what it reveals about the relationship between Canada and the United States.

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Rational Security: The “Gone ‘Til September” Edition Sep 03, 2023

Show notes

This week, Alan, Quinta, and Scott reunited to talk through the week’s big national security news, including:

“Pack Your Knives and Go Home.” Vladimir Putin’s top chef has been eliminated. Wagner mercenary chief and Kremlin caterer Yevgeny Prighozin was killed in a plane crash this past week alongside a number of associates, in what the government has conceded might have been a deliberate act. If this was Putin’s revenge, what led him to take this step now? And what will it mean for his Wagner mercenary group—and the stability of Putin’s regime?
“The Down Mexico Way.” At the first Republican presidential primary debate last week, there was surprising unity around one point: using the military to go after drug cartels in Mexico, whether it cooperates or not. What should we make of the villainization of America’s southern neighbor? And how realistic are these sorts of proposals?
“(Re)Movin’ On Up.” Mark Meadows spent this past Monday trying to move his prosecution for crimes relating to 2020 election interference from Fulton County, Georgia, to federal court, so he can claim a form of immunity stemming from the Supremacy Clause. And some of his co-defendants are not far behind. What should we make of these arguments? Are they likely to succeed?

For object lessons, Alan recommended literary puzzle box and joy to read " Trust" by Hernan Diaz. Quinta shared the HBO show, "How to with John Wilson." And Scott dug into the historical archive to endorse Stanley Karnow's "Vietnam: A History."

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