The Lawfare Podcast - The Lawfare Institute

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Chatter: Lincoln, Leadership, and Difficult Conversations with Steve Inskeep Oct 26, 2023

Show notes

Many will recognize the voice of Steve Inskeep from his nearly two decades-long role hosting NPR's Morning Edition. But he's also the author of what is now a trilogy of books about political relationships in the United States during the 19th century, including his newly published Differ We Must: How Lincoln Succeeded in a Divided America. His newest book uses a unique framework to study Lincoln's leadership and growth: Describing in detail difficult interactions Lincoln had with sixteen individuals, ranging from generals to political opponents to his wife Mary Todd Lincoln.

David Priess spoke with Steve about what drew him to Lincoln as a subject; the challenges of recreating private exchanges from long ago; the links between Differ We Must and his earlier books; Lincoln's difficult conversations with Joshua Giddings, Frederick Douglass, Jessie Benton Frémont, Lean Bear, and others; and enduring lessons of Lincoln's pragmatic leadership.

Among the works mentioned in this episode:

The book Differ We Must by Steve Inskeep

The book Instant City by Steve Inskeep

The book Jacksonland by Steve Inskeep

The book Imperfect Union by Steve Inskeep

The book series Abraham Lincoln: A History by John Nicolay and John Hay

The book series Abraham Lincoln by Carl Sandburg

Chatter is a production of Lawfare and Goat Rodeo. This episode was produced and edited by Cara Shillenn of Goat Rodeo. Podcast theme by David Priess, featuring music created using Groovepad.

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Roger Parloff on a Potential Problem for the Justice Department’s Jan. 6 Prosecutions Oct 26, 2023

Show notes

The D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals last week faintly endorsed the Justice Department’s reading of a critical felony charge, “corrupt obstruction of an official proceeding,” which the department has relied on to prosecute at least 317 individuals for their alleged roles in the Jan. 6 Capitol riot. In the case, United States v. Thomas Robertson, the court affirmed the Justice Department’s conception of the definition of “corruptly,” as stated in the charge. Robertson followed another D.C. Circuit ruling in April, United States v. Fischer, which upheld the charge even more fragilely.

Lawfare Senior Editor Roger Parloff detailed the court’s Robertson decision on Lawfare. Lawfare Research Fellow Matt Gluck sat down with Parloff to discuss Robertson, Fischer, and what it would mean for the Justice Department if its interpretation of the corrupt obstruction statute is ultimately rejected.

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Pleas Please Me, Jenna Ellis Oct 25, 2023

Show notes

Another morning, another surprise plea deal in Fulton County Superior Court. It was Jenna Ellis this time, in front of Judge Scott McAfee, pleading out of the Fulton County election interference case. There was a tearful colloquy and a letter of apology to the people of Georgia. There is a cooperation agreement of some kind, and there is yet another sentence of probation.

Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down to talk about it all with Lawfare Legal Fellow Anna Bower. They talked about how big a deal Jenna Ellis could be for Fani Willis, about how the DA's record is stacking up, about who might be next, and about who's going to hold out and force this whole thing to trial.

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Rules for Civilian Hackers in War, with Tilman Rodenhäuser and Mauro Vignati Oct 24, 2023

Show notes

Thanks to advances in digital technologies, it is now easier than ever for civilians to get involved in military cyber operations. From private civilian companies being involved in cyber defense to individuals engaging in offensive cyber operations against enemy targets, the increased participation of civilians in armed conflict is a risky trend.

Lawfare Fellow in Technology Policy and Law Eugenia Lostri sat down with two guests who recently authored an article outlining eight rules to guide the behavior of civilian hackers during war. Tilman Rodenhäuser is a legal advisor at the International Committee of the Red Cross, or ICRC. Mauro Vignati is a senior adviser on new digital technologies of warfare, also at the ICRC. They talked about what could happen if the principle of distinction is eroded and civilians lose their status, what limits governments should impose on civilian hackers conducting cyber operations in the context of an armed conflict, and the response so far from hacker groups and the cybersecurity community.

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Comparing Approaches to AI Regulation with Arianna Evers and Itsiq Benizri Oct 23, 2023

Show notes

The promise and risks posed by artificial intelligence appear to have captured our collective imagination. The risks seem to span from global doom brought about by a rogue AI to the enshrinement of harmful bias and discrimination in systems that can determine whether you get a loan. The stakes require governments to step up and regulate the field, with several key companies advocating for government action. This call has been answered, but conceptions of responsible AI risk management and appropriate regulations are already diverging across jurisdictions.

To discuss the approaches to AI regulation in the United States and in the European Union, Lawfare Fellow in Technology Policy and Law Eugenia Lostri sat down with Arianna Evers, special counsel at WilmerHale, and Itsiq Benizri, counsel also at WilmerHale. Evers and Benizri recently authored an article on comparative approaches to AI regulation for Lawfare. They talked about the breadth of regulatory options being discussed, the similarities and differences across jurisdictions, and how the quickly evolving field affects how they help their clients navigate AI-related challenges.

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Rational Security: The ”Third Ballot’s the Charm” Edition Oct 22, 2023

Show notes

This week on Rational Security, Alan, Quinta, and Scott were joined by their Lawfare colleague and Carnegie Endowment for International Peace Senior Fellow Eric Ciaramella to discuss the week’s big national security news, including:

“PiS Off.” Elections in Poland appear set to oust the incumbent Law and Justice (or “PiS”) party, which has spent the past several years in power undermining many of the tenants of liberal democracy—that is, if the coalition of centrist and leftist groups that won a parliamentary majority can successfully form a government. What might this tell us about the authoritarian drift in Europe—and the extent to which it’s reversible?
“Gaza Under Siege.” Israel’s military response to the massacre committed by Hamas is entering its second week, as rockets continue to rain down on Gaza, which remains cut off to most utilities, supplies, and humanitarian aid. President Biden, meanwhile, is in Israel showing his support, but has had to cancel meetings with Jordanian officials due to outrage over what Gaza authorities initially claimed—inaccurately, according to Israeli officials and the Biden administration—was an Israeli attack on a hospital there that killed more than 500 people. What is the trajectory of this conflict? Where is it headed?
“Heir Jordan?” Conservative House judiciary committee chairman Jim Jordan is the latest possible inheritor of the Speakership in the House of Representatives, having won the nomination of the Republican caucus shortly after majority leader Steve Scalise went down in defeat on the floor. But Jordan also failed to win enough support for his colleagues in the first two votes on the floor. What does the state of the House mean for the country?

For object lessons, Alan passed along his latest tonally off comfort watch: the British series A Spy Among Friends, which tells the story of notorious spy Kim Philby. Quinta recommended the new book, “Number Go Up,”by Zeke Faux. Scott urged folks to check out the surprisingly huggy and wholesome season 2 of The Bear. And secret musician Eric endorsed the Strong Songs podcast and its close look at the song writing process.

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Trump’s Trials and Tribulations: A Surprise Plea in Fulton County Oct 21, 2023

Show notes

It's another episode of “Trump’s Trials and Tribulations,” our weekly YouTube livestream conducted on Zoom for Lawfare Material Supporters. It was a breaking news day on Thursday: Sidney Powell, the Kraken lawyer, pled guilty in a plea deal in Fulton County Superior Court, one day before she and Ken Chesebro were going to trial.

To unpack it all, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editors Roger Parloff and Quinta Jurecic, Lawfare Legal Fellow Anna Bower, and Lawfare Associate Editor Hyemin Han. They talked about the plea, about what it means for Ken Chesebro and the trial for which jury selection was set to start on Friday, about what happened this week in Tanya Chutkan's courtroom where a gag order was imposed on Donald Trump, and about the defense motion to dismiss on presidential immunity grounds in that courtroom and an article about it by Quinta Jurecic.

On Oct. 20. Lawfare Senior Editor Scott Anderson sat down with Lawfare Legal Fellow and Courts Correspondent for a special edition of "Trump's Trials and Tribulations" to talk about Kenneth Chesebro's surprise guilty plea. This discussion is added to the end of the Thursday conversation

This is a live conversation that happens online every Thursday at 4:00pm Eastern Time. If you would like to come join and ask a question, be sure to visit Lawfare’s Patreon account and become a Material Supporter.

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Lawfare Archive: Radek Sikorski on the Week's Events in Poland Oct 21, 2023

Show notes

From July 7, 2018: It's been a bad week for Polish democracy, with the government removing a bunch of judges from the country's Supreme Court in order to replace them with party loyalists. In response, protestors took to the streets to push back against the deconsolidation of Polish democracy. Radek Sikorski joined Benjamin Wittes to discuss the week's events and the larger degradation of Polish governance of which they are a part. Radek served as foreign minister and defense minister of Poland, as well as speaker of the Polish parliament. He has also been a visiting fellow at the American Enterprise Institute, and he's currently a senior fellow at the Center of European Studies at Harvard University and distinguished statesman at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington.

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The Crisis Facing Efforts to Counter Election Disinformation Oct 20, 2023

Show notes

Over the course of the last two presidential elections, efforts by social media platforms and independent researchers to prevent falsehoods from spreading about election integrity have become increasingly central to civic health. But the warning signs are flashing as we head into 2024. And platforms are arguably in a worse position to counter falsehoods today than they were in 2020.

How could this be? On this episode of Arbiters of Truth, our series on the information ecosystem, Lawfare Senior Editor Quinta Jurecic sat down with Dean Jackson, who previously sat down with the Lawfare Podcast to discuss his work as a staffer on the Jan. 6 committee. He worked with the Center on Democracy and Technology to put out a new report on the challenges facing efforts to prevent the spread of election disinformation. They talked through the political, legal, and economic pressures that are making this work increasingly difficult—and what it means for 2024.

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Chatter: The Secret History of Women at the CIA with Liza Mundy Oct 19, 2023

Show notes

Journalist Liza Mundy’s new history of the world’s most storied spy service focuses on the women of the CIA, who for decades worked in jobs that men found less glamorous or career enhancing, and that proved vital to the interests of U.S. national security. The Sisterhood covers practically the entire history of the agency, from its pre-World War II days as the Office of Strategic Services, through the Cold War and the 9/11 attacks, followed by the successful hunt for Osama bin Laden.

Shane Harris spoke with Mundy about why she decided to write about the women of the CIA and what that story reveals about the hidden history of the agency. Mundy’s previous book, Code Girls, was about American women who worked as code breakers during WWII.

Among the works mentioned in this episode:

The Sisterhood: The Secret History of Women at the CIA https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/653184/the-sisterhood-by-liza-mundy/

Code Girls: The Untold Story of the American Women Code Breakers of World War II: https://www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/liza-mundy/code-girls/9780316352550/?lens=hachette-books

Mundy’s website: http://www.lizamundy.com/

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