The Lawfare Podcast - The Lawfare Institute

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Rational Security: The “Talking Turkey” Edition Nov 19, 2023

Show notes

This week on Rational Security, Quinta and Scott were jointed by Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien to talk over some of the week's big national security news, including:

“The Day After.” As the war in Gaza enters a new phase, discussions are increasingly shifting to focus on how Israel will handle a post-Hamas Gaza Strip—and what long-term impact the conflict will have on the West Bank. How is the day after this war coming into focus?
“Not Just America’s Mayor…” New York City Mayor Eric Adams is being investigated for accepting donations from a Turkish foundation and other organizations with ties to Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, just before lobbying for the early opening of a Turkish consulate in the city. Has Adams done anything wrong? What else could this investigation be looking into?
“Election Interference Interference Interference.” A lawsuit over the U.S. government’s engagement with social media is interfering with the FBI’s efforts to interfere with those hoping to interfere in our elections—including the upcoming presidential race in 2024. What threats does this chilling effect present? How should the Biden administration be responding?

For object lessons, Quinta recommended “The Vaster Wilds,” Lauren Groff's new adventure story exploring the experience of colonialism. Tyler endorsed Albert Brooks: Defending My Life, the new documentary about the legendary (at least among people over 30) comedian. And Scott told readers to check out “A City on Mars” by Kelly and Zach Weinersmith for a fun (if pessimistic) exploration of all the challenges facing humanity's budding efforts to expand into outer space.

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Trump’s Trials and Tribulations: What Is Judge Cannon up to Now? Nov 18, 2023

Show notes

It's another episode of “Trump’s Trials and Tribulations,” the last one before Thanksgiving, when we will take a week off. Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down before a live audience of Lawfare Material Supporters with Lawfare Senior Editor Roger Parloff and Legal Fellow Anna Bower. They talked about the latest developments in Mar-a-Lago, where Judge Cannon has issued a cryptic order. They talked about the latest in the Section 3 litigation in three states: Minnesota, Colorado, and Michigan. They talked about the latest weirdness in Fulton County, where there was a confession on the stand of who released some proffer videos to the public. And they took audience questions.

This is a live conversation that happens online every Thursday at 4:00pm Eastern Time on YouTube. If you would like to come join and ask a question, be sure to visit Lawfare’s Patreon account and become a Material Supporter.

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Lawfare Archive: Turnover and Turmoil Inside the State Department Nov 18, 2023

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From September 7, 2019: This summer has been a tumultuous one inside the U.S. State Department. In August, the department’s Office of the Inspector General handed down a scathing report alleging political manipulation and abusive practices inside the department’s International Organization bureau—only one of a series of similar allegations. At the same time, a number of career State Department officials ranging from assistant secretaries to the rank-and-file have resigned due to alleged complaints and disagreements with Trump administration officials and policies.

To dig into these developments and consider what they might mean for the State Department’s present and future, Scott R. Anderson spoke with reporters Colum Lynch and Robbie Gramer of Foreign Policy magazine, and Lawfare’s Margaret Taylor, who is a fellow alumnus of the State Department’s Office of the Legal Advisor and former Democratic Counsel for the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

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Assistant Secretary Matt Axelrod on Enforcing Export Controls Nov 17, 2023

Show notes

The United States has long set restrictions on the export of certain sensitive goods and technologies, particularly to strategic rivals. But over the past several years, we have seen first the Trump and now the Biden administrations use the legal authorities behind these export controls in new and innovative ways, for purposes ranging from limiting China’s access to key emerging technologies to stymying Russia’s military effectiveness in Ukraine. The only problem is, once you impose these restrictions, you then have to enforce them—and that’s not always an easy task.

To learn more about how the Biden administration is taking on this challenge, Lawfare Contributing Editor Brandon Van Grack and Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with Matthew Axelrod, Assistant Secretary of Export Enforcement at the U.S. Department of Commerce’s Bureau of Industry and Security. They discussed how export control enforcement works; the sorts of coordination it requires with industry and foreign countries, friendly and unfriendly; and what new enforcement strategies the United States is pursuing as the use of export controls changes.

This is the latest episode of “The Regulators,” a special series Lawfare is co-producing with the law firm Morrison & Foerster, where Brandon is a partner. Each episode, Brandon and Scott sit down with some of the senior U.S. policymakers responsible for crafting and implementing the cutting edge policies that are defining our new era of economic statecraft.

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Chatter: The Empty Grave of Comrade Bishop with Martine Powers Nov 16, 2023

Show notes

In October 1983, Maurice Bishop, the revolutionary leader and prime minister of Grenada, was executed alongside seven others amid a power struggle in the island nation. Ever since, a mystery has persisted: What happened to their bodies? The whereabouts of Bishop’s remains is unknown, and for the past two years, Washington Post journalists have been trying to find them.

Martine Powers hosts the new Post investigative podcast, “The Empty Grave of Comrade Bishop.” She’s been fascinated by Bishop’s story for years, and she takes listeners on a journey through his rise and untimely death. The podcast is part mystery, party history. Bishop was a dynamic, charismatic leader, and an important figure in the history of Black power and politics, his influence felt in Grenada and the United States. The Reagan administration saw Bishop as a socialist threat and worried that the Soviet Union might build a base on Grenada. Days after Bishop was killed, the United States led an invasion of the island.

Listeners may also know Martine as the host of “Post Reports,” the news organization's daily podcast. Shane Harris and Martine have spent a lot of time together in the recording studio, but this is the first time he’s asked her the questions. They discussed her new project, how she made her way from print reporting to podcasts, and what she thinks audio journalism gives readers that traditional news reporting often can’t.

Among the works mentioned in this episode:

“The Empty Grave of Comrade Bishop” episode guide
Martine’s bio
Bishop speaking in New York in 1983
President Ronald Reagan speaking about Bishop and Grenada (around 14:20): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfLGDxnRH-Q
Excerpts of Reagan’s address following the invasion of Grenada
Washington Post coverage of the invasion:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1983/10/26/the-invasion-of-grenada/cc0f5e1c-9a3b-4d53-bc42-a5708da9f77f/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1983/10/26/the-invasion-of-grenada/18d2aa63-f54f-4e76-932b-275fae48c3ea/

White House photos during the invasion

Chatter is a production of Lawfare and Goat Rodeo. This episode was produced and edited by Cara Shillenn of Goat Rodeo. Podcast theme by David Priess, featuring music created using Groovepad.

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Data Brokers and the Sale of Data on U.S. Military Personnel Nov 16, 2023

Show notes

On November 6, researchers at Duke University’s Sanford School of Public Policy issued a report on “Data Brokers and the Sale of Data on U.S. Military Personnel” that illuminates the national security risks arising from the sale of these data. Lawfare Senior Editor Stephanie Pell sat down with the three of the report’s authors: Justin Sherman, a Senior Fellow at the Sanford School of Public Policy who leads its data brokerage research project; Hayley Barton, a Master of Public Policy and Master of Business Administration student at Duke University and a former research assistant on Duke’s data brokerage research project; and Brady Allen Kruse, a Master of Public Policy student at Duke University and a research assistant on Duke’s data brokerage research project.

They talked about the kinds of data that data brokers collect and sell about U.S. military personnel, the national security risks created by these practices, and the gaps in the law that enable this activity. They also discussed policy recommendations for the U.S. federal government to address the risks associated with data brokerage and the sale of data on former and active-duty U.S. military personnel.

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Deepfakes and Human Subjects Protection with Aimee Nishimura Nov 15, 2023

Show notes

The use of deepfakes—a form of artificial intelligence known as deep learning to create manipulated or generated images, video, and audio—is on the rise. In 2022, the U.S. military took a nearly unprecedented step by declaring its interest in deepfake technology for offensive purposes. But the Defense Department’s exploration of this technology poses privacy and ethics risks, especially with respect to human subjects research.

To unpack all of this and more, Lawfare Associate Editor Katherine Pompilio sat down with Aimee Nishimura, a Cyber Student Fellow at the Strauss Center for International Security and Law at UT Austin. Aimee recently published a piece on Lawfare, entitled “Human Subjects Protection in the Era of Deepfakes.” They discussed the significant dangers posed by deepfakes, how the Defense Department can support the protection of human subjects in its research on the technology, and more.

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Ryan J. Reilly on the Sedition Hunters Nov 14, 2023

Show notes

Three weeks ago, an amazing new book came out about the prosecutions stemming from the Capitol Siege of Jan. 6, 2021. It’s called "Sedition Hunters: How January 6th Broke the Justice System."

Lawfare Senior Editor Roger Parloff sat down with the book’s author, Ryan J. Reilly, who is also the Justice Reporter at NBC News. They discussed who the Sedition Hunters are, how Ryan stumbled across them, and why they’ve played such a crucial role in the Jan. 6 criminal investigation.

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Anatomy of a Somali Drone Strike with Nick Turse Nov 13, 2023

Show notes

In August, the U.S. Africa Command, aka AFRICOM, reported that it had killed 13 al-Shabaab fighters in southern Somalia. Though the U.S. government said that it did not kill any civilians this time around, several past airstrikes have claimed innocent lives. In one notable example from March 2018, U.S. drone operators killed a 22-year-old mother, Lul Dahir Mohamed, and her 4-year-old daughter, Mariam, as they hitched a ride in a pickup truck with suspected militants.

In a recently published article for The Intercept, Nick Turse offers an unprecedented account of the March 2018 strike, thanks to his reporting in Mogadishu and a secret Pentagon investigation he obtained through a Freedom of Information Act request. As Nick writes, “This is a story about misconnections, flawed intelligence, and fatal blindness. It started with bad cell service and ended with an American missile obliterating civilians the U.S. didn't intend to kill, but didn't care enough to save.”

Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien sat down with Nick, contributing writer at The Intercept, to discuss his piece, a post mortem of that fatal drone strike, and the wider context of AFRICOM's drone war across the region from the Obama administration through the present day. They also discussed why this special operations strike cell “seemed like they did everything wrong,” according to one American drone pilot who worked in Somalia.

Please note that this episode contains content that some people may find disturbing, including graphic depictions of deadly drone strikes. Listener discretion is advised.

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Rational Security: The ”Alan Revoir” Edition Nov 12, 2023

Show notes

This week on Rational Security, Quinta and Scott bade a temporary farewell to Alan and spent one last afternoon (for a few months, anyway) digging into the week’s big national security news stories, including:

“Ceasefire or Misfire?” We are now one month into Israel’s military campaign in the Gaza Strip. As civilian casualties continue to mount and Israel’s ground operations get underway, there are growing calls for a ceasefire—calls that the Biden administration may now be taking up, in more limited and temporary fashion. Where are we in this conflict? Is there any end in sight?
“Freedom of Screech.” Former President Trump’s speech—and the right to it—is increasingly becoming an issue in his various criminal and civil trials, both legal and otherwise (as evidenced by a recent bout of angry shouting he pursued on the stand in his New York civil case). How have courts been balancing the equities? Is there something they can do better?
“No, no—THAT’s what the Insurrection Act is for.” In an effort spearheaded by co-conspirator number four himself Jeffrey Clark, President Trump and his allies are reportedly planning for a revenge campaign if he returns to the White House, beginning with a complete takeover of the Justice Department. How realistic are these plans? What can be done to stop them?

For object lessons, Alan recommended Sandra Newman’s “Julia,” a retelling of the classic “1984” from a new perspective. Quinta gave a similar bump to Brandon Taylor’s new novel, “The Late Americans.” And Scott rolled logs for his latest piece for Lawfare, a retrospective on the legacy of the War Powers Resolution fifty years after its enactment.

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