The Lawfare Podcast - The Lawfare Institute

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Information Ecology and 19th-Century Naturalism at Verify 2024 Apr 10, 2024

Show notes

Hosted by the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation Cyber Initiative and Aspen Digital, Verify 2024 brings together journalists and cyber and tech policy experts to discuss critical issues in cybersecurity. For this live recording of the Lawfare Podcast, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down at Verify 2024 to talk about information ecology and 19th-century naturalism with Alicia Wanless, the Director of the Partnership for Countering Influence Operations at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, and Chinmayi Sharma, an Associate Professor at Fordham Law School.

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Juliette Kayyem on the Baltimore Bridge Collapse and Crisis Management Apr 09, 2024

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In the early morning on March 26, a Singapore-flagged cargo ship crashed into Baltimore’s Francis Scott Key Bridge. The bridge collapsed, resulting in the death of six of the eight individuals conducting maintenance on the bridge. The incident has disrupted commuter traffic and the transport of hazardous materials, and it has halted shipping traffic at the Port of Baltimore, among other effects.

Lawfare Research Fellow Matt Gluck discussed the bridge’s collapse, how authorities responded to it, and what it all means for the resilience of U.S. critical infrastructure and the state of crisis response with Juliette Kayyem, a professor of international security at the Harvard Kennedy School—who recently wrote a book on disaster management. Was the bridge adequately protected? How should governments and the private sector prepare to both prevent crises, but perhaps more importantly, prepare for the aftermath when they inevitably occur?

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Jim Dempsey and John Carlin on U.S. Cybersecurity Law and Policy: There’s a Lot Going On Apr 08, 2024

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There is a lot to keep up with in U.S. cybersecurity law and policy these days. To talk about the current regulatory landscape and the progression of the DOJ’s strategy relating to takedown and disruption efforts, Lawfare Senior Editor Stephanie Pell sat down with Jim Dempsey, Senior Policy Advisor at the Stanford Program on Geopolitics, Technology, and Governance, and John Carlin, Partner at Paul Weiss. They talked about the SEC’s cyber disclosure rule, the new executive order focused on preventing access to Americans’ bulk sensitive personal data, the LockBit and Volt Typhoon disruption efforts, and more.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donationat https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

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Rational Security: The “Going Once, Going Twice” Edition Apr 07, 2024

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This week on Rational Security, Alan and Quinta were joined by Lawfare Executive Editor Natalie Orpett to talk through the week's big national security news, including:

“A Gag Order Prevents Me From Telling You What This Segment Is Called.” After former President Donald Trump attacked the daughter of Justice Juan Merchan, who is overseeing his New York hush-money trial, Justice Merchan expanded the gag order he had previously imposed to prohibit Trump from attacking his family. This is only the latest in what has become a pattern of Trump testing gag orders in his many legal cases. Why have gag orders become such an important part of the Trump cases and how far should they reach?
“The Global Importance of the Middle East Is That It Keeps the Far East and the Near East From Encroaching on Each Other.” Even by the standards of the last few months, it’s been a particular busy week in Israel. In just 48 hours, an Israeli strike in Syria killed high-level Iranian military officials, another strike in Gaza killed several aid workers in a World Central Kitchen convoy, and a controversy around conscripting ultra-Orthodox men into the IDF is threatening Benjamin Netanyahu’s coalition. What comes next and is the crisis in the Middle East entering an even more chaotic period?
“Disinformation Peking Turducken.” An amazing thread on X involving Alex Jones, Russian lies about the CIA sending Nazis to fight in Ukraine, and a Chinese MAGA disinformation campaign is a preview of just how messy the 2024 electoral season is going to be. Is this just 2016 all over again, and what, if anything, can be done to safeguard the U.S. information space against foreign actors?

For object lessons, Alan suggested the new Netflix adaptation of the "3 Body Problem", Quinta shared a New Yorker article about the United Kingdom's recent decline, and Natalie recommended the Serial podcast's new season on Guantánamo Bay.

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Trump's Trials and Tribulations: Trump Gagged Once Again Apr 06, 2024

Show notes

It's another episode of “Trump's Trials and Tribulations,” recorded on April 4 in front of a live audience on YouTube and Riverside. Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Legal Fellow Anna Bower and Lawfare Senior Editors Roger Parloff and Quinta Jurecic to talk about Judge Cannon's order denying both Trump's motion to dismiss the classified documents case based on the Presidential Records Act and Jack Smith's request for a ruling on jury instructions prior to trial. They also discussed the preliminary ruling in Jeffrey Clark's bar discipline hearing, Judge McAfee's order denying Trump's motion to dismiss criminal charges in Fulton County on First Amendment grounds, and Justice Merchan's expanded gag order against Trump in New York. And of course, they took audience questions from Lawfare Material Supporters on Riverside.

To receive ad-free podcasts and to be able to submit questions to the panelists, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donationat https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

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Lawfare Archive: An Assassination in Iran Apr 06, 2024

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From December 2, 2020: The top Iranian nuclear scientist has been killed, apparently in an Israeli strike. Mohsen Fakhrizadeh, who has long been the mastermind of the Iranian nuclear program, was gunned down in an attack with a remote control machine gun. Iranian reprisals are expected, although their timing and nature is not clear. It also puts the incoming Biden administration, which is looking to bring back the Iran nuclear deal, in a bit of a pickle.

To chew it all over, Benjamin Wittes sat down with Scott R. Anderson, international law specialist and Lawfare senior editor; Suzanne Maloney, the vice president and director of the Foreign Policy Program at the Brookings Institution and an Iran scholar; and Natan Sachs, director of the Center for Middle East Policy at Brookings where he focuses on Israeli policy. They talked about why the Israelis would conduct this operation, how effective its killing of Iranian nuclear scientists has been, whether any of it is legal and what it means for the future of U.S.-Iran relations.

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How Congressional Staffers Helped Our Afghan Allies Apr 05, 2024

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A new report from the POPVOX Foundation focuses on a little-known and hugely under-appreciated congressional effort: that of congressional staffers helping Afghan allies flee the country during the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan

Lawfare Executive Editor Natalie Orpett sat down with the report’s author, Anne Meeker. They talked about what staffers did to help, the challenges they faced, and how the experience exposed both weaknesses and strengths in how Congress functions.

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donationat https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

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Chatter: Why Foreign Policy Elites Matter with Elizabeth Saunders Apr 04, 2024

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The "deep state." The "blob." Foreign policy elites are often so labeled, misunderstood, and denigrated. But what influence on presidents and on public opinion do they actually have?

Elizabeth Saunders, professor of political science at Columbia, has researched this topic deeply and written about it in her new book, The Insiders' Game. David Priess spoke with her about her path to studying foreign policy, the ups and downs of archival research, the meaning of foreign policy "elites," the differences between the influences of Democratic and Republican elites, a counterfactual President Al Gore's decisionmaking about invading Iraq, pop cultural representations of foreign policy elites, how heightened polarization changes the dynamics of elite influence, and more.

Among the works mentioned in this episode:

The book The Insiders' Game by Elizabeth Saunders

The book Leaders at War by Elizabeth Saunders

The TV show The West Wing

The movie The Hunt for Red October

The TV show The Diplomat

The TV show The Americans

The movie Thirteen Days

The article "Politics Can't Stop at the Water's Edge" by Elizabeth Saunders, Foreign Policy (March/April 2024)

Chatter is a production of Lawfare and Goat Rodeo. This episode was produced and edited by Cara Shillenn of Goat Rodeo. Podcast theme by David Priess, featuring music created using Groovepad.

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Paul Beckett on the Evan Gershkovich Case Apr 04, 2024

Show notes

Paul Beckett was the Washington Bureau Chief of the Wall Street Journal. But since the arrest of the newspaper's Russia correspondent, Evan Gershkovich, last year in Russia on bogus spying charges, he has been working full time on advocating for the reporter's release. In connection with the one-year anniversary of Gershkovich's arrest, he joined Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes to discuss the case. What do we know about the charges against the young reporter? What is the U.S. government doing to secure his release? What progress, if any, has been made? And how is Gershkovich holding up in prison in Moscow?

To receive ad-free podcasts, become a Lawfare Material Supporter at www.patreon.com/lawfare. You can also support Lawfare by making a one-time donationat https://givebutter.com/c/trumptrials.

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Contestability in Government AI Systems Apr 03, 2024

Show notes

The use of AI to make decisions about individuals raises the issue of contestability. When automated systems are used by governments to decide whether to grant or deny benefits, or calculate medical needs, the affected person has a right to know why that decision was made, and challenge it. But what does meaningful contestability of AI systems look like in practice?

To discuss this question, Lawfare's Fellow in Technology Policy and Law Eugenia Lostri was joined by Jim Dempsey, Senior Policy Advisor at the Stanford Cyber Policy Center, and Ece Kamar, Managing Director of the AI Frontiers Lab at Microsoft. In January, they convened a workshop with stakeholders across disciplines to issue recommendations that could help governments embrace AI while enabling the contestability required by law. They talked about the challenges that the use of AI creates for contestability, how their recommendations align with recently published OMB guidelines, and how different communities can contribute to the responsible use of AI in government.

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