The Lawfare Podcast: Patreon Edition - The Lawfare Institute

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Anatomy of a Somali Drone Strike with Nick Turse Nov 13, 2023

Show notes

In August, the U.S. Africa Command, aka AFRICOM, reported that it had killed 13 al-Shabaab fighters in southern Somalia. Though the U.S. government said that it did not kill any civilians this time around, several past airstrikes have claimed innocent lives. In one notable example from March 2018, U.S. drone operators killed a 22-year-old mother, Lul Dahir Mohamed, and her 4-year-old daughter, Mariam, as they hitched a ride in a pickup truck with suspected militants.

In a recently published article for The Intercept, Nick Turse offers an unprecedented account of the March 2018 strike, thanks to his reporting in Mogadishu and a secret Pentagon investigation he obtained through a Freedom of Information Act request. As Nick writes, “This is a story about misconnections, flawed intelligence, and fatal blindness. It started with bad cell service and ended with an American missile obliterating civilians the U.S. didn't intend to kill, but didn't care enough to save.”

Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien sat down with Nick, contributing writer at The Intercept, to discuss his piece, a post mortem of that fatal drone strike, and the wider context of AFRICOM's drone war across the region from the Obama administration through the present day. They also discussed why this special operations strike cell “seemed like they did everything wrong,” according to one American drone pilot who worked in Somalia.

Please note that this episode contains content that some people may find disturbing, including graphic depictions of deadly drone strikes. Listener discretion is advised.

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Rational Security: The ”Alan Revoir” Edition Nov 12, 2023

Show notes

This week on Rational Security, Quinta and Scott bade a temporary farewell to Alan and spent one last afternoon (for a few months, anyway) digging into the week’s big national security news stories, including:

“Ceasefire or Misfire?” We are now one month into Israel’s military campaign in the Gaza Strip. As civilian casualties continue to mount and Israel’s ground operations get underway, there are growing calls for a ceasefire—calls that the Biden administration may now be taking up, in more limited and temporary fashion. Where are we in this conflict? Is there any end in sight?
“Freedom of Screech.” Former President Trump’s speech—and the right to it—is increasingly becoming an issue in his various criminal and civil trials, both legal and otherwise (as evidenced by a recent bout of angry shouting he pursued on the stand in his New York civil case). How have courts been balancing the equities? Is there something they can do better?
“No, no—THAT’s what the Insurrection Act is for.” In an effort spearheaded by co-conspirator number four himself Jeffrey Clark, President Trump and his allies are reportedly planning for a revenge campaign if he returns to the White House, beginning with a complete takeover of the Justice Department. How realistic are these plans? What can be done to stop them?

For object lessons, Alan recommended Sandra Newman’s “Julia,” a retelling of the classic “1984” from a new perspective. Quinta gave a similar bump to Brandon Taylor’s new novel, “The Late Americans.” And Scott rolled logs for his latest piece for Lawfare, a retrospective on the legacy of the War Powers Resolution fifty years after its enactment.

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Trump’s Trials and Tribulations: Trump Ungagged Nov 11, 2023

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It's another edition of “Trump’s Trials and Tribulations,” recorded on Nov. 9 before a live audience of Lawfare Material Supporters. To talk through this week of Trump’s trials, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with special guest Adam Klasfeld of The Messenger, Lawfare Legal Fellow Anna Bower, and Lawfare Senior Editors Quinta Jurecic and Alan Rozenshtein. They talked about the Trump testimony, Ivanka’s testimony, and her brother’s testimony. They talked about gag orders in New York, gag orders in Washington, and what it takes to be subject to a gag order. They talked about Section 3 litigation under the 14th Amendment. And they talked about the Georgia Bureau of Investigation report on all that went down in Coffee County.

This is a live conversation that happens online every Thursday at 4:00pm Eastern Time. If you would like to come join and ask a question, be sure to visit Lawfare’s Patreon account and become a Material Supporter.

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Lawfare Archive: Luke Murry and Daniel Silverberg on National Security in Congress Nov 11, 2023

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From March 2, 2019: It's hard to open a newspaper or turn on the television without hearing about the dysfunction and partisan polarization affecting members of Congress. But what about their staffs, and what does that mean for national security?

This week, Margaret Taylor sat down with seemingly unlikely partners: Luke Murry, National Security Advisor to Republican House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, and Daniel Silverberg, National Security Advisor to Democratic House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer. They spoke about security issues facing this Congress, what staffers do on a day-to-day basis, and how the two of them actually work together.

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Lawfare Archive: Jack Goldsmith on Obama's War Powers Legacy Nov 10, 2023

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From November 8, 2014: Last month, Jack gave a talk at the Hoover Institution on President Obama's war powers legacy. It's a remarkable address: hard-hitting, clear, and sure to discomfort Obama's defenders on war powers issues. In essence, Jack argues that Obama has gone way beyond President Bush in the aggressiveness of his approach vis a vis Congress to initiating overseas conflict.

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Chatter: Rachel Maddow on her book "Prequel: An American Fight Against Fascism" Nov 09, 2023

Show notes

When she's not hosting The Rachel Maddow Show on MSNBC, Rachel Maddow has been diving deep into the history of fascism in America. First on her podcast, Rachel Maddow Presents: Ultra, and most recently in her new book, Prequel: An American Fight Against Fascism, she has unearthed the stories for popular audiences both of an earlier era of foreign authoritarian influence in American politics and of those who fought against it.

In this conversation, Maddow sat down with Lawfare Editor in Chief Benjamin Wittes to discuss Prequel and its relationship to the modern fight against populist authoritarianism. They talked about the many striking similarities between then and now, some key differences, the necessity but ultimate inadequacy of law enforcement as a solution to authoritarian movements, the role of journalism, whether grifting is an inherent feature of right-wing authoritarianism, and why so many heroes of that era's fight against fascism are almost forgotten today.

For future reading on this subject, Maddow recommends:

Charles R. Gallagher, "Nazis of Copley Square: The Forgotten Story of the Christian Front"
Steven J. Ross, "Hitler in Los Angeles: How Jews Foiled Nazi Plots Against Hollywood and America"

You can also watch Rachel's full conversation with Ben at https://youtu.be/Y1Yc4Ss8_OI.

Chatter is a production of Lawfare and Goat Rodeo. This episode was produced and edited by Cara Shillenn of Goat Rodeo. Podcast theme by David Priess, featuring music created using Groovepad.

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Fionnuala Ní Aoláin on Counterterrorism and Human Rights Nov 08, 2023

Show notes

Fionnuala Ní Aoláin completed a productive six-year tenure as the UN Special Rapporteur on counterterrorism and human rights last week. Among other issues, she examined how financing counterterrorism and new technologies used for counterterrorism affect human rights. She also analyzed the protection of human rights in several locations with different political contexts, including visits to Guantanamo Bay and detention facilities in northeast Syria.

Lawfare Research Fellow Matt Gluck sat down with Fionnuala to discuss her experience as special rapporteur. They spoke about the downstream harms of counterterrorism financing, her conversations with Guantanamo Bay detainees, why gender should be a meaningful consideration of counterterrorism policy, and much more.

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Mike Johnson’s National Security Agenda Nov 07, 2023

Show notes

You probably already know that Rep. Mike Johnson is the new Speaker of the House. What you may not know is that every single one of the issues on his plate is a national security issue, at least in the short term. Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editor and Brookings Senior Fellow Molly Reynolds to talk it all through. They talked about Israel aid, Ukraine aid, Taiwan assistance, the border, FISA Section 702, government shutdowns, and more. It's a rollicking conversation through a crazy bunch of issues that are all on the front burner of the new Speaker's stove as he takes over a job for which he appears to be wholly unprepared.

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Data Brokers, Public Records, and Violence with Justin Sherman Nov 06, 2023

Show notes

In the debate about data privacy and harms, one issue has not received adequate attention by the press or in policy conversations relative to the severity and volume of harm: the link between publicly available information and stalking and gendered violence.

To discuss how “people search” data brokers use public information and contribute to stalking and abuse, Lawfare’s Fellow in Technology Policy and Law, Eugenia Lostri, sat down with Justin Sherman who recently wrote a Lawfare article on the topic. Justin is the Founder and CEO of Global Cyber Strategies and a Senior Fellow at Duke University’s Sanford School of Public Policy. They talked about the publicly available information carve-outs, the systemic nature of the problem, and how policymakers should step in.

Content Warning: This episode contains discussions of gendered violence and stalking. Listener discretion is advised.

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Rational Security: The “Regulatory Cage Match” Edition Nov 05, 2023

Show notes

This week on Rational Security, Alan, Quinta, and Scott were joined by Lawfare Fellow in Technology Policy and Law Eugenia Lostri to tackle some of the overlooked national security stories that have been percolating the past few weeks, including:

“BrokenAI?” The Biden administration has rolled out a groundbreaking new Executive Order on Artificial Intelligence that seeks to take the first steps towards a real regulatory regime for this revolutionary technology. Is this a responsible step? Or does it threaten to put the U.S. development of AI in a regulatory cage?
“Ending the Fracas in Caracas.” The Biden administration is taking a step towards thawing relations with the Maduro regime in Venezuela, easing sanctions at least temporarily in exchange for the release of political prisoners and a promise to hold competitive elections—though Maduro has yet to agree to ensure that most prominent opposition figures will be allowed to participate. Is this a smart way forward or folly?
“Let’s Get Mikey to Do It, He’ll Try Anything.” We have a new Speaker of the House in the form of Rep. Mike Johnson. And he has decided to open his speakership with a bold move: separating aid from Israel out from other emergency measures and insisting that it be funded by cuts from the Internal Revenue Service—a move that President Biden has promised to veto and that Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell has come out publicly against. What does this tell us about the direction Congress is headed in the weeks to come?

For object lessons, Alan shared a bit of comedy in the form of Jeff Maurer’s satire of statements on the Gaza conflict, “Windex Ain’t Scared.” Quinta recommended the second season of “Our Flag Means Death” for a delightful romcom about bloodthirsty pirates. Scott celebrated the power of love. And Eugenia recommended the video game Pillars of Eternity for those desperate to play Baldur’s Gate III but whose computers cannot handle it.

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