The Lawfare Podcast: Patreon Edition - The Lawfare Institute

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A Conversation with Adam Kinzinger Dec 23, 2023

Show notes

The other day before a live audience, we had our Lawfare year-end extravaganza. It was two hours long, so we've broken it up for purposes of the podcast. In this episode, you'll hear Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes interview Adam Kinzinger, former representative and member of the Jan. 6 committee, who headlined the event. They talked about the big national security stories of 2023, both domestically and abroad. They talked about what to expect in 2024, and how the international stories are linked to American domestic politics and dysfunction.

You can watch a video version of their conversation here.

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Three CISA Senior Advisers on Secure by Design Dec 22, 2023

Show notes

Secure by Design means different things to different people. As part of Lawfare’s ongoing project to understand what Secure by Design might mean in practice, we are trying to identify the open questions—areas where research or inquiry might help our collective understanding of the concept and how it might work. Lawfare Contributing Editor Paul Rosenzweig sat down with three Senior Advisers to CISA—Lauren Zabierek, Jack Cable, and Bob Lord—who work on the cutting edge of SbD design and implementation, to get their thoughts on research that would be of ongoing value to their efforts to define an SbD standard.

You can watch a video version of their conversation here.

For more information, including the resources mentioned in this episode:

CISA, U.S. and International Partners Announce Updated Secure by Design Principles Joint Guide | CISA
CISA, NSA, FBI and International Cybersecurity Authorities Publish Guide on The Case for Memory Safe Roadmaps | CISA
Blog: The Next Chapter of Secure by Design | CISA
Expanded Secure by Design Publication: Secure-by-Design | CISA
White Paper: https://www.cisa.gov/resources-tools/resources/secure-by-design (English and Spanish versions available)
Blog on Memory Safety: The Urgent Need for Memory Safety in Software Products | CISA
Applying Secure By Design to events : Applying “Secure By Design” Thinking to Events in the News | CISA
RFI on secure software attestation form: CISA Requests Comment on Draft Secure Software Development Attestation Form | CISA
Director Jen Easterly on updated Secure by Design in Singapore (start 2:12): SICW Opening Ceremony & SICW High-Panels - Opening Plenary - YouTube
Rosenzweig on Auto/Cyber Liability: https://tcg-website-prod.azurewebsites.net/the-evolving-landscape-of-cybersecurity-liability/
Unsafe At Any Speed: CISA's Plan to Foster Tech Ecosystem Security (youtube.com)

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Chatter: Secrecy and Transparency in Early America, with Katlyn Carter Dec 21, 2023

Show notes

Modern representative democracy was born in darkness. Transparency in representative bodies can spur unintended consequences for freedom, while secrecy in those bodies can lead to optimal outcomes for the public.

These are uncomfortable truths that emerge from the history of the US and French revolutionary experiences. Many of our governance challenges today, from malign misinformation to persistent leaks to skepticism toward authority, derive in part from the fact that fundamental issues about how to manage openness in a representative deomcracy remain unresolved.

David Priess chatted with Katlyn Carter, assistant professor of history at Notre Dame and author of the new book Democracy in Darkness: Secrecy and Transparency in the Age of Revolutions, about the concepts of reflective representation and insulated representation, how to understand and research the will of the people, the Continental Congress's secrecy, the closed-door policy of the Constitutional Convention, the consequences of its secrecy for the doctrine of originalism, the crucial cases of the Jay Treaty and the Alien and Sedition Acts, James Madison's evolving views about representation and openness, the difficult realization that open dialogue and debate do not always lead to truth, and Thomas Jefferson's complicated legacy.

Chatter is a production of Lawfare and Goat Rodeo. This episode was produced and edited by Cara Shillenn of Goat Rodeo. Podcast theme by David Priess, featuring music created using Groovepad.

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The Colorado Supreme Court Has Its Day Dec 21, 2023

Show notes

In an end-of-the-day ruling on Tuesday, the Colorado Supreme Court struck Donald Trump from the Republican primary ballot on grounds that he was disqualified for the presidency as a result of Section 3 of the 14th Amendment. The decision now appears to be fast-tracked to Supreme Court consideration that could obliterate it or make it apply nationally.

To go over all the twists and turns, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editor Roger Parloff and Gerard Magliocca, a professor at the University of Indiana, who wrote a key law review article on Section 3 of the 14th Amendment. They talked about the Colorado decision—where it's strong, and where it's less strong. They talked about how this is going to land at the Supreme Court—which parts the justices are likely to accept, and which parts they're going to pick apart. They talked about the politics of it all, and they talked about what it means to engage in insurrection.

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Jeff Horwitz on Broken Code and Reporting on Facebook Dec 20, 2023

Show notes

In 2021, the Wall Street Journal published a monster scoop: a series of articles about Facebook’s inner workings, which showed that employees within the famously secretive company had raised alarms about potential harms caused by Facebook’s products. Now, Jeff Horwitz, the reporter behind that scoop, has a new book out, titled “Broken Code”—which dives even deeper into the documents he uncovered from within the company. He’s one of the most rigorous reporters covering Facebook, now known as Meta.

On this episode of Arbiters of Truth, our series on the information ecosystem Lawfare Senior Editor Quinta Jurecic sat down with Jeff along with Matt Perault, the Director of the Center on Technology Policy at UNC-Chapel Hill—and also someone with close knowledge of Meta from his own time working at the company. They discussed Jeff’s reporting and debated what his findings tell us about how Meta functions as a company and how best to understand its responsibilities for harms traced back to its products.

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A Conversation with Bryan Vorndran, Assistant Director of the FBI Cyber Division Dec 19, 2023

Show notes

Bryan Vorndran is Assistant Director of the FBI's Cyber Division, a position he's held since around March 2021. Prior to that, he was the special agent in charge in New Orleans, and he's worked in Afghanistan and on the Joint Terrorism Task Force at the Washington Field Office.

David Kris, Lawfare contributor and former Assistant Attorney General for the National Security Division, and Bryan Cunningham, Lawfare contributor and Executive Director of the University of California, Irvine’s Cybersecurity Policy & Research Institute, sat down with Bryan to talk about his career trajectory, the FBI's top cyber challenges, the Bureau's relationships with other agencies and private sector entities, and the challenges posed by the People's Republic of China.

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Joel Braunold on Gaza and What Comes Next Dec 18, 2023

Show notes

The conflict in Gaza may be approaching a turning point. An increasingly frustrated Biden administration has reportedly told Israeli officials that the military campaign needs to wind up within weeks, while even some Israeli officials have suggested that Hamas is on the verge of defeat. But as the physical and human devastation in Gaza continues to mount, the question of what comes after the conflict ends looms just over the horizon, without anyone offering a clear answer.

To talk through the state of the conflict and what might come next, Lawfare Senior Editor Scott R. Anderson sat down with Joel Braunold, the Managing Director of the S. Daniel Abraham Center for Middle East Peace—someone who has followed the Israeli-Palestinian conflict closely for decades, and who has often played a key supporting role in related negotiations. They talked about the state of Israel’s military campaign, how it is impacting Israeli and Palestinian politics, and the challenges of reaching a new status quo that stands any chance of meeting the demands of those parties who are most directly affected.

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Rational Security: The “A Friend in Need is a Friend Security Guaranteed” Edition Dec 17, 2023

Show notes

This week on Rational Security, Quinta and Scott were joined by Lawfare Managing Editor Tyler McBrien to talk through the week’s big national security news, including:

“You’ll Shoot Your Five Eyes Out with a Bibi Gun.” From Ukraine to Gaza, some of the biggest controversies surrounding U.S. foreign policy hinge on the assistance—including weapons and intelligence—that the United States provides to its allies. What makes these relationships so complicated?
“The Sock-It Docket.” Late last week, Special Counsel Jack Smith executed a power move, bringing former President Trump’s appeal of the denial of his claim of absolute presidential immunity directly to the Supreme Court — through what is often called the “rocket docket”—and citing precedents from the Nixon era suggesting the Supreme Court should resolve the issue within weeks. What does this move tell us—and how likely is Smith to win his case?
“Netanya-who?” President Biden’s bear hug of the Israeli prime minister may be loosening, as he has reportedly told donors that Netanyahu must go if Israel is to retain international support. How serious a move is this? And what might it mean for the conflict in Gaza?

For object lessons, Quinta continued to show off her bookshelf by recommending Jeff Horwitz’s “Broken Code.” Scott flagged for listeners that “White Christmas” is, in fact, the best holiday movie and no one should try to argue otherwise. And Tyler endorsed Julie Byrne’s album from earlier this year, “The Greater Wings.”

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Trump’s Trials and Tribulations: Mr. Smith Goes to the Supreme Court, not the D.C. Circuit Dec 16, 2023

Show notes

It's another edition of “Trump’s Trials and Tribulations,” recorded on Thursday before a live audience of Lawfare Material Supporters. This week, Lawfare Editor-in-Chief Benjamin Wittes sat down with Lawfare Senior Editor Roger Parloff, Lawfare Legal Fellow Anna Bower, and special guest Steve Vladeck from the University of Texas School of Law. They discussed Jack Smith's petition to the Supreme Court for a writ of certiorari “before judgment” on the question of presidential immunity. They talked about the Court's decision to weigh in on Fischer v. United States and the potential impact on Trump's criminal cases and the other Jan. 6 cases that involved the same statute. They talked about whether Trump's trial in D.C. will be delayed by the Supreme Court's consideration of the immunity question. They talked about the status of the civil suit by Georgia election workers against Rudy Giuliani, and they checked in to see what is new in Fulton County.

This is a live conversation that happens online every Thursday at 4:00pm Eastern Time. If you would like to come join and ask a question, be sure to visit Lawfare’s Patreon account and become a Material Supporter.

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Lawfare Archive: Jim Baker and Carl Ghattas on Section 702 Dec 16, 2023

Show notes

From July 29, 2017: On December 31, 2017, Section 702 of the FISA Amendments Act will sunset. While U.S. officials insist that the provision authorizes critical intelligence gathering, it remains an open question whether Congress will reauthorize the law as it exists, pass it with amendments, or allow it to lapse altogether. In this week's podcast, Susan Hennessey sits down with FBI General Counsel Jim Baker and the Bureau's Executive Assistant Director of the National Security Branch Carl Ghattas to discuss the FBI's perspective on the legal and operational elements of Section 702.

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