The Karen & Ellen Letters

The Karen & Ellen Letters (Season One Trailer) Aug 23, 2023

The Karen & Ellen Letters are found correspondance between two teenage girls and their landlord, over a three year period, from the 1980s. This podcast is the reading of those letters and a re-telling of the host's journey to authenticate them. The girls are demanding at best, the landlord is tired and impatient, the journey is the perfect blend of comedy, mystery, and cognitive dissonance.
The Karen & Ellen Letters arrive on September 5 at www.karenandellen.com.

1. Dear Mark Sep 07, 2023

In 2005, Josh is gifted a stack of strange letters.
In 1987, Karen and Ellen move into their very first apartment and immediately begin terrorizing their landlord.
And so we begin to unravel a decade-long mystery with a single question: Can these letters actually be real?
The Karen & Ellen Letters are found correspondence.
Narrated and produced by: Josh Hallmark.
Starring: Sara Stapleton, Sara Beth Kitcher, and Jeff Powell.
Music by:

Everything
Junk City Rejects
Neon Coast
Fifteen
Neon Rider; and
Lee Rosevere

Featured music by: Maria Taylor
Patreon producers:
Adrienne Aiello, Amelia Hancock, Amy Basil, Annette L, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Casey Jensen-Richardson, Dana Keith, Dr. Jill Cooper, Drew Vipond, Hallie Reed, Jessica Alihodzic, Jillian Natale, John O’Leary, Kendall C, Kimberly K, Lauren F, Lynnlie Tuschoff, Manolis Boulukos, Meggan Capps-Seawel, Mike Sherman, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Sarah King, SC, Shannon Foster, Shelly Brewer, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Beth McNally, John Comrie, Jordan Taylor, Karli McNutt, Lana, Sara Cee, Lydia Fiedler

2. Jurisdiction is Irreverent Sep 14, 2023

In 2005, Josh begins trying to authenticate the letters.
In 1987, Karen and Ellen struggle with math and jurisdiction; Ellen is upset by a commercial; and Karen tells Mark about her boyfriend.
Mark begins to lose his cool.
The Karen & Ellen Letters are found correspondence.
Narrated and produced by: Josh Hallmark.
Starring: Sara Stapleton, Sara Beth Kitcher, and Jeff Powell.
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production:
www.truecrimebullshit.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand
Music by:

Everything
Junk City Rejects
Neon Coast
Fifteen
Neon Rider
Patreon producers: Adrienne Aiello, Amelia Hancock, Amy Basil, Annette L, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Casey Jensen-Richardson, Dana Keith, Dr. Jill Cooper, Drew Vipond, Hallie Reed, Jessica Alihodzic, Jillian Natale, John O’Leary, Kendall C, Kimberly K, Lauren F, Lynnlie Tuschoff, Manolis Boulukos, Meggan Capps-Seawel, Mike Sherman, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Sarah King, SC, Shannon Foster, Shelly Brewer, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Beth McNally, John Comrie, Jordan Taylor, Karli McNutt, Lana, Sara Cee, Lydia Fiedler

Conversations with Charlie Worroll Sep 19, 2023

WARNING: This contains mild general spoilers about the scope of the Karen & Ellen Letters story. We talk around how the investigation ends, without giving away exact or detailed information.
Charlie Worroll (Crimelines; Crimelines and Consequences) has history with The Karen & Ellen Letters going back to its days as a blog (c. 2012). Years later, we met through podcasting. In the inaugural Karen & Ellen Conversations, we discuss how the letters have changed and how we have changed over time, propriety in storytelling, ethics in found and historical documents, social blunders, being stupid teenagers, and how Karen & Ellen is so much more than just letters.
Tidbits: Charlie embarrasses herself in a train car in Seattle. Why Josh stopped using video for the original After Shows.
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: www.truecrimebullshit.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

3. You Know What That Means Sep 21, 2023

In 2006, Josh begins to find evidence that three of the letter-writers actually exist.
In 1988, the girls celebrate a milestone, Karen and Mark find themselves at an impasse, and Mark finds joy in an unlikely place.
The Karen & Ellen Letters are found correspondence.
Narrated and produced by: Josh Hallmark.
Starring: Sara Stapleton, Sara Kitcher, Jeff Powell, and Benjamin Watkins.
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: www.truecrimebullshit.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand
Music by:

Everything
Topaz White
Retro Chillwave
Droid Bishop
Channel 13
Icarus
Neon Lights
Patreon producers: Adrienne Aiello, Amelia Hancock, Amy Basil, Annette L, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Casey Jensen-Richardson, Dana Keith, Dr. Jill Cooper, Drew Vipond, Hallie Reed, Jessica Alihodzic, Jillian Natale, John O’Leary, Kendall C, Kimberly K, Lauren F, Lynnlie Tuschoff, Manolis Boulukos, Meggan Capps-Seawel, Mike Sherman, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Sarah King, SC, Shannon Foster, Shelly Brewer, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Beth McNally, John Comrie, Jordan Taylor, Karli McNutt, Lana, Sara Cee, Lydia Fiedler

Conversations with Stephanie Sabin Sep 26, 2023

WARNING: This contains general spoilers about the scope of the Karen & Ellen Letters story. We talk around how the investigation ends, without giving away exact or detailed information.
Stephanie Sabin is a writer for WYDaily.com. More than that, she's a dear friend. And The Karen & Ellen Letters played a very significant role in both Stephanie's career and our friendship. Stephanie was a superfan of the podcast in its initial run; and now we're discussing it in depth, for the first time, since that initial investigation ended. We look at how the listening experience has changed, how society and culture have changed, and how these letters and their reality have changed us.
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: www.truecrimebullshit.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand

4. It Could Have Happened to Anyone Sep 28, 2023

In 2012, the Josh struggles with the joy vs. the reality of the letters.
In 1988, Karen honeymoons, Ellen prepares to move out, and Mark sends the girls what's left of their deposit.
In 2017, people have questions about Ellen.
The Karen & Ellen Letters are found correspondence.
Narrated and produced by: Josh Hallmark.
Starring: Sara Stapleton, Sara Kitcher, Jeff Powell, and Chris Braaten
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: www.truecrimebullshit.com / www.bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: www.patreon.com/studiobothand
Music by:

Lee Rosevere
Topaz White
Fifteen
Tide
Junk City Rejects
Icarus
The APX
Roi Shpigler
Featured music: The Bird & The Bee
Patreon producers: Adrienne Aiello, Amelia Hancock, Amy Basil, Annette L, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Casey Jensen-Richardson, Dana Keith, Dr. Jill Cooper, Drew Vipond, Hallie Reed, Jessica Alihodzic, Jillian Natale, John O’Leary, Kendall C, Kimberly K, Lauren F, Lynnlie Tuschoff, Manolis Boulukos, Meggan Capps-Seawel, Mike Sherman, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Sarah King, SC, Shannon Foster, Shelly Brewer, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Beth McNally, John Comrie, Jordan Taylor, Karli McNutt, Lana, Sara Cee, Lydia Fiedler

5. Dear Josh Oct 12, 2023

The train goes off the tracks.
The Karen & Ellen Letters are found correspondence.
Narrated and produced by: Josh Hallmark.
Starring: Sara Stapleton, Sara Kitcher, Jeff Powell, Matt Peelen, and Chris Braaten
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: truecrimebullshit.com / bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothand
Music by:

Idokay
Lee Rosevere
Everything
Digital Battleground
Galactic Realms
Roi Shpigler

Featured music: Maria Taylor
Patreon producers: Adrienne Aiello, Amelia Hancock, Amy Basil, Annette L, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Casey Jensen-Richardson, Dana Keith, Dr. Jill Cooper, Drew Vipond, Hallie Reed, Jessica Alihodzic, Jillian Natale, John O’Leary, Kendall C, Kimberly K, Lauren F, Lynnlie Tuschoff, Manolis Boulukos, Meggan Capps-Seawel, Mike Sherman, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Sarah King, SC, Shannon Foster, Shelly Brewer, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Beth McNally, John Comrie, Jordan Taylor, Karli McNutt, Lana, Sara Cee, Lydia Fiedler

Check out my newest show: Unsafe Spaces Oct 19, 2023

Unsafe Spaces is an investigative, serialized true crime podcast that explores the crimes that take place in the places we’re supposed to feel safest.
In Season One: Tampa’s Missing Men, I explore how two different missing persons cases, reported on the same day, opened a Pandora’s Box of unreported assaults, cold missing persons cases, ignored rapes, and unsolved murders within Florida’s gay community; and the two men who could be responsible for all of them. Not to mention cold cases of missing gay and murdered men in Georgia, Illinois, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and beyond.
Check out Unsafe Spaces: www.UnsafeSpacesPodcast.com

6. A Sober Dog Oct 27, 2023

In 1989: Ellen has concerns, Karen & Rob are at their wit's end, and Mark mourns a loss.
In 2012: Things get meta.
The Karen & Ellen Letters are found correspondence
Narrated and produced by: Josh Hallmark
Starring: Sara Stapleton, Sara Kitcher, Jeff Powell, and Matt Peelen
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothand
Music by:

Lee Rosevere
Nightcrawlers
Fifteen
Retro Chillwave
Topaz White
Everything
Patreon producers: Adrienne Aiello, Amelia Hancock, Amy Basil, Annette L, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Casey Jensen-Richardson, Dana Keith, Dr. Jill Cooper, Drew Vipond, Hallie Reed, Jessica Alihodzic, Jillian Natale, John O’Leary, Kendall C, Kimberly K, Lauren F, Lynnlie Tuschoff, Manolis Boulukos, Meggan Capps-Seawel, Mike Sherman, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Sarah King, SC, Shannon Foster, Shelly Brewer, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Beth McNally, John Comrie, Jordan Taylor, Karli McNutt, Lana, Sara Cee, Lydia Fiedler

7. You Know Who Dec 14, 2023

The season finale.
Season 2 begins on January 29.
The Karen & Ellen Letters are found correspondence
Narrated and produced by: Josh Hallmark
Starring: Sara Stapleton, Sara Kitcher, Jeff Powell, Matt Peelen, Chris Green, Vicki Russell, Megan Chaney-Walker, Eric Schmidt, Paul Csomo, and Zoe Marshall-Rashid
This is a Studio BOTH/AND production: bothand.fyi
For an ad-free experience: patreon.com/studiobothand
Music by:

Lee Rosevere
Chris Zabriskie
Roie Shpigler
Galactic Realms
Icarus
Digital Battlefield
Tide
Droid Bishop
Night Crawlers
Retro Chillwave
Everything
Featured music: Maria Taylor
Patreon producers: Adrienne Aiello, Amelia Hancock, Amy Basil, Annette L, Benjamin Cioppa-Fong, Casey Jensen-Richardson, Dana Keith, Dr. Jill Cooper, Drew Vipond, Hallie Reed, Jessica Alihodzic, Jillian Natale, John O’Leary, Kendall C, Kimberly K, Lauren F, Lynnlie Tuschoff, Manolis Boulukos, Meggan Capps-Seawel, Mike Sherman, Nicole & Dennis Henry, Sarah King, SC, Shannon Foster, Shelly Brewer, Tuesdi Woodworth, Zack Ignatowicz Warren, Beth McNally, John Comrie, Jordan Taylor, Karli McNutt, Lana, Sara Cee, Lydia Fiedler

Season 2 Launches 2/6! Enjoy this teaser. Jan 30, 2024

What (and when) is Ellen doing with all these mice?
What are Mark and Bonnie up to?
What did Josh and Sara find?
Who's baking ham from the internet?
The Big D????
Season 2 will take you out of California, across multiple timelines, to new voices and witnesses, and answer most of your old questions plus some new ones.
The answers start pouring in on February 6.

Studio BOTH/AND News & Announcements Jan 31, 2024

Catch up on all things Studio BOTH/AND for the month of February (and beyond).
This month's news:
• New tours and events
• Unsafe Spaces update
• The Karen & Ellen Letters update
• True Crime Bullsh** update
• New projects
• Our Americana update
• Studio BOTH/AND Launch Party follow-up in The Berkshires this October
• What's happening on Patreon this month
Links:
• True Crime Podcast Festival, use promo code JOSH for 15% off
• Studio BOTH/AND Patreon

0201. How to Catch a Mouse Feb 14, 2024

Dot loses her dog. Mark gets scolded. Karen spies on her neighbors. Someone is up to something. Josh tries to reconcile timelines. Ellen catches a mouse.
Starring:
• Lori Snyder as Dot
• Nina Innsted as Bonnie
• Jeff Powell as Mark
• Sara Stapleton as Karen/Herself
• Sara Beth Poole as Ellen
• Alyse Braaten as Leslie
• Chris Green as David
• Josh Hallmark as Himself
Music by:
• Podington Bear
• Marti
• Broke For Free

0202. I Can't Wait to Get Over the Wall Feb 14, 2024

Helena reconnects with an old friend. Someone is having a really bad day. Ellen wants free firewood. Ants! Ellen leaves something behind. Josh finds something alarming. Where's Leslie?
Starring:
• Adrienne Hardison as Helena
• Cindy Hall as ???????
• Jeff Powell as Mark
• Sara Stapleton as Karen/Herself
• Sara Beth Poole as Ellen
• Alyse Braaten as Leslie
• Chris Green as David
• Josh Hallmark as Himself
Music by:
• Podington Bear
• Grandma Pat
• Julie Maxwell's Piano Music

0203. In My Legal Opinion Feb 14, 2024

There's something oddly familiar, but strangely foreign about this. But what does it all mean, Leslie? Leslie?
Starring:
• Chris Green as David
• Josh Hallmark as Himself
• Lori Anyder as Dot
• Deana Marie as Karen
• Cory Saceaux as Rob
• Steven Pappas as Mark
• Donna Hume as Ellen
• Sara Stapleton as Herself
• Holly Hall as Patricia
Music by:
• Podington Bear
• Grandma Pat
• Ivy

0204. The Deal Feb 14, 2024

Helena fondly remembers Dot's daughter and her friend. The girls return from vacation. Ellen continues to struggle with geography. Josh reaches out to an old friend.
Starring:
• Sara Stapleton as Herself/Karen
• Chris Green as Email Man
• Adrienne Hardison as Helena
• Jeff Powell as Mark
• Sara Beth Kitcher as Ellen
• Matt Peelen as Rob
• Josh Hallmark as Himself
Music by:
• Podington Bear
• Herman & Ian
• YEYEY
• Part Time

0205. Karen, Karen, Karen Feb 21, 2024

Dot tells Helena about her daughter's wedding. Josh and Sara try to sort out several possible Karens. Email Karen returns. Crochet Pants enters the fold. And Ellen catches another mouse.
Starring:

Lori Snyder as Dot
Adrienne Hardison as Helena
Sara Stapleton as Karen/Herself
Josh Hallmark as Himself
Denise Page as Rosie
Sara Beth Poole as Ellen

Music by:

Podington Bear
Muddy Waters
Aurelie

0206. Bestselling Feline Author Feb 21, 2024

Helena gets upset with the news. Ellen has her eye on a cat painting. Josh can't believe his eyes. Darren spills the beans. Thanksgiving is celebrated on opposite ends of the country.
Starring:

Adrienne Hardison as Helena
Josh Hallmark as Himself
Sara Beth Poole as Ellen
Sara Stapleton as Herself/Karen
Matt Valletta as Darren
Holly Hall as Patricia

Music by:

Podington Bear
Titus 12
Gary & John
Chris Zabriskie
Samuel Corwin
Lia Ices

0207. The Big Guy Feb 21, 2024

We touch base with David. Dot & Helena look at "pics." Patty tells a friend about her wedding. Josh finds something at the bottom of a rabbit hole.
Starring:

Chris Braaten as Rod Downey
Chris Green as David
Lori Snyder as Dot
Adrienne Hardison as Helena
Holly Hall as Patricia
Sara Beth Poole as Ellen
Sara Stapleton as Herself/Karen
Josh Hallmark as Himself

Music by:

Podington Bear
Mele
Samuel Corwin
The Do

0208. Two Sweet Sand Pigs Mar 06, 2024

The results are in. Mark moves on. Crochet Pants looks back. A life is celebrated. A birthday is celebrated. Aloha Karen watches the sunrise.
Starring:

Lori Snyder as Dot
Adrienne Hardison as Helena
Matt Peelen as Aloha Rob
Sara Stapleton as Herself/Karen Crochet Pants/Aloha Karen
Jeff Powell as Mark
Ryan Connelly as Christopher
Matt Valletta as Darren
Chris Braaten as Reporter
Josh Hallmark as Himself

Music by:

Podington Bear
Beach Party Hula Island
Sara Stapleton
Evgeny Grinko
Radical Face

0209. Sunrise/Sunset Mar 06, 2024

The results are in. Mark moves on. Crochet Pants looks back. A life is celebrated. A birthday is celebrated. Aloha Karen watches the sunrise.
Starring:

Lori Snyder as Dot
Adrienne Hardison as Helena
Matt Peelen as Aloha Rob
Sara Stapleton as Herself/Karen Crochet Pants/Aloha Karen
Jeff Powell as Mark
Ryan Connelly as Christopher
Matt Valletta as Darren
Chris Braaten as Reporter
Josh Hallmark as Himself

Music by:

Podington Bear
Beach Party Hula Island
Sara Stapleton
Evgeny Grinko
Radical Face

0210. Go Be Free Mar 06, 2024

Truth is a tricky thing.
Three girls lived in a cottage once. They are both everywhere and nowhere in these versions of the Truth.
Starring:

Lori Snyder as Dot
Adrienne Hardison as Helena
Matt Peelen as Rob
Sara Stapleton as Herself/Karen
Sara Kitcher as Ellen
Jeff Powell as Mark
Josh Hallmark as Himself
Megan Chaney Walker as Josh Hallmark as Mark as Ellen as A girl who lived in a cottage once

Music by:

Podington Bear
Twin Sister
Maria Taylor
Roseanne Cash
Chris Zabriskie

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