The Jim Wallis Podcast

Latest Episodes:

White Too Long: How Racism Lives in the DNA of White Christianity in America Jul 23, 2020

Show notes

Robert P. Jones, CEO and founder of the Public Religion Research Institute and the author of White Too Long: The Legacy of White Supremacy in American Christianity, speaks with Rev. Jim Wallis about how white American Christianity and white supremacy collaborate throughout our nation's history.

Jones says, "[Racism is] very, very deep in [white Christian] theology and it's going to take more than a couple of potlucks with the African American church down the street. It's going to take a serious reconsideration of evangelical theology top to bottom. I liken it to something like a bone marrow transplant. It's so deep that you basically have to kill the immune system and bring someone close to death in order to finally bring them to health. I think that's the situation we're in after hundreds of years of this being built into the very DNA of white Christian identity in this country."

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Eddie Glaude on the Third Founding of America Jul 16, 2020

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Dr. Eddie Glaude, the James S. McDonnell Distinguished University Professor and chair of African American Studies at Princeton University and former president of the American Academy of Religion, speaks with Rev. Jim Wallis about the need for a profound change in America that he calls the "The Third Founding."

Glaude says, "The third founding tries to disrupt this idea [of] who white Americans take themselves to be.

"We have to begin to build a society that will reflect the value of every individual, no matter their color, their zip code, who they love. So it's going to require policies that will ensure that the dignity of every human being is recognized by the state and by the community that undergirds the state. So it has everything to do with universal health care, has everything to do with the living wage. It has everything to do with a vibrant, robust public education system. It has something to do with a robust conception of the public good fortified by a public infrastructure of care."

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Why Racism Still Makes Sense to White Folks Jul 10, 2020

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How did white people justify racism for so long in this country? Heather McGhee, the co-chair of Color of Change, the country’s largest online racial justice organization, talks with Rev. Jim Wallis about the legacy of racism in the United States and the lies that allow America’s original sin to be perpetuated to this day.

“The whitewashing and posthumous glorification of our society's agitators allows for contemporary people to pretend that they back in that time would have had a clear moral stance,” says McGhee. “And that, I think, is a temptation that allows people in the contemporary moment to justify their own ambiguity or hostility towards the agitators of today. So often in conversations with white people about Jim Crow and about slavery, they act as if, of course they would have been one of the good guys back then.... What is lost is how much the justifications for the status quo always evolve and change.”

“There were reasons that good, upstanding, moral white people gave themselves and their children for why segregation made sense,” continues McGhee. “It was about crime. It was about poverty. It was about God's will. It was about the natural order of things. And when you focus on what the possible justifications could have been, as opposed to just saying, ‘old people in the past were evil,’ then you might start to recognize some of those same justifications for the status quo today.”

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The Courage to Listen: Faith Communities' Mission to Protect Black Life and Reduce Harm Jul 01, 2020

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Rev. Jeffrey L. Brown serves as associate pastor of the historic Twelfth Baptist church in Boston, one of the oldest African American churches in the nation. Rev Brown is also one of the architects of the Boston Miracle, a proven successful methodology that is being replicated across the country and around the world to reduce gang violence.

Rev. Brown spoke with Rev. Jim Wallis about his work to save young black lives. "If you have people straining to live under the weight of a system that seeks to constantly dehumanize, then it doesn't matter how much training the police will get," said Rev. Brown. "You will always have a city who will look at communities of color as less than the other parts of the city."

Brown continues, "I committed myself to this work because Black lives matter. And I really believe it's biblical. Look at the Luke 15 parables. You had a sheep and one of them is lost. The shepherd went after the one, then the 99 could cry, 'Well, what about us? Don't we matter?' But they're not the one that's in danger. And so that life mattered and in that respect, we're living in an age where people are starting to understand if a Black life doesn't matter, then my life doesn't matter. If a Black life matters, then all of our lives matter."

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God and Neighbor: Ending Racism Through Faith Jun 26, 2020

Show notes

The Right Reverend Robert Wright, the 10th Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Atlanta, speaks with Rev. Wallis about the original sin of racism and how we need to find empathy through proximity.

"George Floyd, a man was publicly asphyxiated, violently asphyxiated for the entire world to see, not unlike the public asphyxiation that happened on Calvary. We see this and we've got to speak up. If the Bible says anything, it says that God and neighbor both are irreducible. That God and neighbor [are] synonymous. It's in some ways, not a black thing. And it's certainly not a white thing. It's a neighbor thing."

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A History of the American Dreamer Jun 24, 2020

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Civil rights advocate Cecilia Muñoz was an eyewitness to history as she helped shape the Obama administration's immigration reform policies, including the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program for the people many now refer to as "Dreamers."

Muñoz tells Rev. Jim Wallis, "We have large numbers, 10 or 11 million undocumented people, [who] Congress has rendered deportable, but we're going to make choices about who we choose to remove. And, DACA recipients are an expression of the folks who should be the lowest priority ... We now know that legions of [Dreamers] are teachers and students and lawyers, and 29,000 of them are medical personnel on the front lines of this pandemic."

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John Whittington Franklin on Juneteenth and Tulsa Jun 19, 2020

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Third generation historian John Whittington Franklin discusses the history of African Americans with Rev. Jim Wallis. They discuss how Black history is integral to a larger American historical narrative.

Franklin says, "As Americans, we all need to know each other's history, as well as our own. That's the only way we will be complete."

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Many Faiths, One Commitment. Radical Love: A Conversation with Valarie Kaur Jun 16, 2020

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Sikh American civil rights activist and lawyer Valarie Kaur talks with Rev. Jim Wallis about The Revolutionary Love Project.

Kaur finds examples of revolutionary love across many faith traditions: "When we think about Jesus has called to love our neighbor as ourself; or Abraham's decision to open his tent to all; or Buddha to have compassion for all; or Mohammad's to take in the orphan; or Mirabai in the Hindu tradition to love without limit; when we love without limit, then it is revolutionary... then it becomes a force for interior and political and social and cultural and spiritual change."

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Sen. Chris Coons: Our Moment of Crisis Is a Moment for Transformation Jun 12, 2020

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Sen. Chris Coons (D-Del.) talks with Rev. Jim Wallis about the potential for a Kairos moment during the unprecedented crisis our nation is facing.

Coons says, "A basic fundamental change can happen because there is the action of God in history, touching hearts, moving people ... When there is sin, when there is brokenness, when there's division, we can't be reconciled to each other until there is a confrontation with our own history, a willingness to be open to challenges or criticism of our own behavior, and our history, and our hearts, and then a willingness to repent."

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Faith and Freedom During the Pandemic Crisis Jun 09, 2020

Show notes

How do you balance the sometimes competing demands of religion and democracy? Religious and legal scholar Melissa Rogers talks with Rev. Jim Wallis on about the fine line that is sometimes hard to distinguish when examining our duty to our religion and our government.

Rogers says, "You think about this pandemic and the way that government and all institutions, including religious institutions had to turn on a dime. ...We need to be both able to partner with government for good. And we need to also be prophetic interrogators ofgovernment too... So I think it's that dual role of cooperating and challenging that we need to perform when we're dealing with government.

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