An interview podcast about historic places for history lovers and travel enthusiasts.
Stephanie Craig is a history and travel blogger. She travels full-time and writes at historyfangirl.com.
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An interview podcast about historic places for history lovers and travel enthusiasts.
Stephanie Craig is a history and travel blogger. She travels full-time and writes at historyfangirl.com.
One of the fascinating things about the city of Atlanta, Georgia is how often it has had to change and adapt to forces around it. Sometimes it’s gone kicking and screaming, and sometimes it’s forged its own path. Because it’s arguably undergone more major cultural and economic changes than most American cities, it’s a great opportunity to study the evolution of American life. Specifically, we’re talking today about the Ponce City Market, formerly the Sears and Roebuck building, which is a great example of how business models come and go, how commerce affects cultural life, and how businesses can impact a city by investing in the structures they will eventually leave behind. My guest today is Caroline Eubanks, a freelance travel writer whose book This is My South comes out this fall. We chat about how Sears came to Atlanta in the 1920s and what legacy its building leaves behind.
Atlanta after the Civil WarAs Caroline tells me, Atlanta has had a rocky relationship with its past. The city was notoriously burned during the Civil War, and then suffered another major fire in 1916. So when Sears & Roebuck came to town, their building was the first major structure in their chosen neighborhood. Atlanta has also not always appreciated its landmarks, tearing down many buildings that are just a few decades old to replace with new ones, so the fact that the Ponce City Market building is still around is remarkable. Atlanta was struggling for jobs after Reconstruction, so Sears coming to town in 1926 was a big deal.
What Sears meant to the SouthThe Sears business model of mail-order goods and home delivery was a huge boon to the South, where many rural communities couldn’t otherwise get access to many of the things Sears sold. So when the city was looking to attract businesses, an entrepreneur named Ivan Allen Sr. teamed up with the Chamber of Commerce and wooed Sears to Atlanta (along with another little-known company, General Motors). But the city Sears landed in was still struggling with the after-effects of the Civil War, with hard segregation between whites and blacks, race riots and more.
The decline of SearsBy the 1970s, Atlanta was experiencing what a lot of major urban areas in the U.S. saw happening: the rise of the suburbs and white flight. Where going into the city to shop at Sears was once a big part of life in the region, large shopping malls were opening in the ‘burbs, and the entire way people bought things shifted. Sears ended up closing its retail store in 1979, and then by 1987 the offices closed as well. The City of Atlanta purchased the two-million-square-foot building in 1990 to use for government offices, but they really only needed the first two floors. But then, in 2010, the city sold the building to a developer named Jamestown, who has developed huge complexes across the United States.
The Rise of Ponce City MarketIn 2013, Jamestown began developing the space and it opened a year later. Now it’s a thriving residential and commercial complex, including a world-class food hall. It’s transformed the neighborhood, of course, and it’s truly an example of what can happen if cities hold onto their landmarks and think creatively about how they can be used. And there’s more to see around the Market as well. As Caroline tells me, it’s important to check out Sweet Auburn, the area where many Civil Rights leaders grew up and came together to plan actions. This is a really fascinating chat about a place that doesn’t get a lot of attention from tourists, the American South, and I highly recommend checking out Caroline’s book when it publishes this fall.
Outline of This EpisodeFeaturing the song “Places Unseen” by Lee Rosevere. More info and photographs for this episode at:
https://historyfangirl.com/atlantas-ponce-city-market/
The last three weeks have been crazy, and I haven't been able to record anything new. My apologies for the delay!
As a quick explanation, I found out that I had to move out of my apartment with only ten days left in the country to deal with packing up my place before heading off for three weeks traveling around North America. This ate up all of my work time. Never fear, as new episodes will be back next week!
For today, please enjoy this interview I did for The Wonders of the World podcastabout the history of Petra and my experiences traveling there.
Episode description:
The lost city of the Nabataeans, the rock-cut city of Petra has been rightfully celebrated as a Wonder of the World, at least since that Indiana Jones movie. But the story is well worth telling. We'll talk about the Nabataeans, their caravans, and their run-ins with the Greeks, Romans, and Judeans. We'll meet Pompey the Pompous. And we'll eat Bedouin classics from underground pit ovens.
Stephanie Craig from the History Fangirl podcast shares her experiences traveling in Jordan. For such a small country, there's so much there. You will have chosen wisely to download this episode. Enjoy!
I have a new show! Rick Steves Over Brunch is a podcast where Chris Mitchell (from travelingmitch) and I break down episodes of the classic travel tv show, Rick Steve’s Europe. The show launched on April 30, 2018, and new episodes drop every other Sunday.
This is a preview episode for you guys so you can check it out. If you enjoy the show, subscribe to Rick Steves Over Brunch wherever you get your podcasts.
Wach the Episode "Copenhagen" from Rick Steves Europe here:
https://historyfangirl.com/rick-steves-copenhagen/
More Info Here:
The town of Bath in England is famous for many things. It was the setting for one of Chaucer’s most famous stories from The Canterbury Tales, “The Wife of Bath’s Tale,” it was a Georgian pleasure town and its hot springs have attracted people to it since Neolithic times. However, for most history lovers, interest in the town begins with the Roman baths and its status as one of the most fascinating Roman ruin sites in Great Britain. My guest today is David Crowther, host of the History of England Podcast. We talk about how the Romans came to Britain, why they were interested in Bath, and what happened to the town in the years since they left.
Dipping a toe in BathWhen David was a kid, he went on a school trip to Bath, and as he says, he followed the grand tradition of school kids not being interested in the subject of a field trip. But then the Bath Museum got in touch, and he went back and realized it was, in his words, “the most stunning town and the most stunning museum.” Bath is the second-most visited town in England, and David tells us why: It was built out of gorgeous yellow limestone, the environment surrounding the town is gorgeous, and it has the famous Roman baths. So as David says, it’s really several things at once, and they all recommend a visit.
Caesar declares victory, runs awayThe Romans first invaded Bath in 56 B.C., when Julius Caesar was fighting the Gauls, and many of the Gauls were escaping into Britain. David says the myth has it that Caesar invaded Bath, “realized he didn’t have the right kid, declared victory and ran away.” He says there’s a lot of truth to that myth, but regardless, Claudius came after and did the job properly. What’s interesting is that at first, Romans just shipped everything over to Bath, and it wasn’t until the third century that they truly began to make a real society and a mixed and varied economy. By the third and fourth century, the Romans start putting in a lot of work on the complex. It’s a religious complex, with a priest presiding over it. But by 420, after years of invasions, Roman Britain is, as David says, “absolutely dead.”
How the monument came to beIt’s a little strange for modern people to imagine a temple in a public bath, but the Roman baths were holy places, as well. As David tells me, the gray ruins we see now bare little resemblance to the colorful places Roman baths used to be. He provides a great picture of what you would have seen if you had prayed at the altar in, say the fourth century. The deities in that particular temple included Minerva. But what’s fascinating is that the Romans incorporated the deities into the temples. So while Minerva is a prominent Roman deity, Sulis, a Celtic goddess was also worshipped at Bath.
The many “careers” of BathWhile there was some attempt to preserve the baths, eventually the city falls to pieces, as David says, and by the time Henry I comes along, the baths are completely gone. And Bath underwent numerous transformations after that, including as the setting for one of Geoffrey Chaucer’s Canterbury Tales. And then, in the 18th century, it became a posh spot, and that’s the city you see today when you visit. The original Roman baths were rediscovered in the 19th century, and excavation continues to this day. It sounds like an amazing place to visit, and David provides some great suggestions for where and how to see it today.
Outline of This EpisodeFeaturing the song “Places Unseen” by Lee Rosevere. More info and photographs for this episode at: https://historyfangirl.com/englands-roman-baths/
When traveling, or thinking of where to visit to memorialize civil rights events and advances, it’s all too easy for straight people to forget about LGBTQ monuments. That’s partially because of the lack of proper sites memorializing LGBTQ rights. But on today’s episode of the History Fangirl Podcast, I talk with someone who completely changed my perspective on travel. We’re talking with José Ramón Harvey of the travel blog My Normal Gay Life about the Barcelona transsexual monument in Parc de la Ciutadella, how and why it was created, and why it is unfortunately so singular.
Barcelona’s history of gay rightsAs José tells me, Barcelona was actually ahead of the curve of many European cities when it came to gay rights, even if “being ahead of the curve” can still seem so backwards. In the 1970s, for instance, it decriminalized “engaging in homosexual acts,” long before other places took those laws off the books. But in the 1990s, there weren’t many protections for trans people, and in 1991, Sonia Rescalvo, a trans woman, was murdered by six Neo-Nazis because of her gender identity.
Who was Sonia?Sonia Rescalvo was a trans woman who ran away from home when she was 16, after her family rejected her identity. She was able to work in theater for some time, but as José tells me, she had to resort to prostitution, as many trans people had to, because it was difficult for her to find work. So because of these circumstances, she was sleeping in a park at night, in a bandstand. And during this time, the Olympics were coming to Barcelona, and there was a crackdown on sex workers, making it extra difficult for someone like Sonia. The bandstand became a place where many homosexual and trans people who had been marginalized would meet and sometimes sleep at night. And it was there that six Neo-Nazis brutally attacked Sonia and two of her friends, killing her and badly injuring her friends.
How the monument came to beIn 1993 a gay liberation organization go into the Parc de la Ciutadella and place a plaque near the bandstand where the murder happened. And the authorities allowed it to stay, and for more than a decade, that’s what the monument was. Then in 2011, an official plaque is put in place by the city, and then in 2013, the bandstand is renamed in Sonia’s honor, with a new plaque to ensure visitors understand the significance of the location. The plaque specifically spells out that the bandstand is where Sonia was murdered by Neo-Nazis, and that the city of Barcelona rebukes anyone who would infringe on the rights of someone because of their gender identity.
Other LGBTQ historical sites in BarcelonaOf course, the bandstand is not the only place of historical significance for LGBTQ people in Barcelona, and José walked me through the other sites he visited during his time in the city. This is a really eye-opening episode for me, and as I said José’s approach to travel completely re-oriented my thinking on what to see when I visit a place, and the need to recognize not only LGBTQ historical sites, but important people like Sonia, whose lives continue to impact us to this day. I hope you’ll give this episode a listen.
Outline of This EpisodeFeaturing the song “Places Unseen” by Lee Rosevere. More info and photographs for this episode at: https://historyfangirl.com/barcelonas-groundbreaking-transsexual-monument/
On today’s episode of the History Fangirl Podcast, we discuss an aspect of history that, I don’t mind saying, was a total blind spot for me. I was so honored to talk with Anna-Lisa Cox, an adjunct member of the History Department and fellow at Harvard University's Hutchins Center for African and African American Research. She’s also the author of the new book, The Bone and the Sinew of the Land, about the free African-American pioneers who helped settle American frontier. It’s a fascinating discussion about how the settlements were formed, the challenges faced by the families there, and why this almost became a part of American history lost to our country’s past.
The Lost History of Black PioneersWhen Anna-Lisa went out for her first book tour, she began to hear stories from people about their family heritage, and she discovered that she’d stumbled upon what was really the first Great Migration in American history. In the late 18th century, tens of thousands of free African-Americans headed to the Northwest Territory (what is now known as the Midwest). But why was this vital piece of American history lost? As Anna-Lisa tells me, it had a “triple-hit” against it: It took place in the Northwest Territory, which was not as well-documented as the early settlements. It concerned African-Americans, who history books have long given short shrift to, and they were rural communities as well. So the odds were stacked against these communities being remembered, but luckily Anna-Lisa has in her new book.
The families on the frontierAnna-Lisa’s research turned up more than 300 African-American farming settlements throughout the Midwest by 1850. These were communities of free African-Americans, typically made up of multiple families. I asked her to tell me some of her favorite stories, and she told me of Charles and Keziah Grier, who were brought into what eventually became Indiana, essentially enslaved. Their story is incredible: Being freed in Indiana but having nothing to their names. But Charles was a skilled farmer, and while he was freed in 1813, by 1815 he was able to buy his first 40 acres of frontier land. Keziah’s story is just as inspiring, but you’ll have to listen to the episode (or buy the book) to experience it.
The purest pioneersWhat’s so fascinating about this part of America’s history is that these settlements were populated by what Anna-Lisa calls the “purest pioneers,” meaning that they were not just moving for economic advancement, they were moving for ideological reasons. They were activists essentially, and they were looking to create a part of the country that lived up to the American ideals that all men are created equal and everyone should be granted freedom and liberty to pursue their dreams. And that’s a big part of why these settlements became important cogs in the functioning of the Underground Railroad.
Violence in the settlementsWhile the black settlers were an idealistic lot, their contemporaries did not necessarily share those views. And as Anna-Lisa told me, there was mass violence against the African-American pioneers, so much so that the Klan’s origins can be traced to the attacks on the settlers. As she says, the word “pogrom” would not be out of place in describing what happened to the purest pioneers. This is truly an important and astounding piece of American history, and I feel very lucky to have been able to spend time talking with, and learning from, Anna-Lisa about this topic.
Outline of This EpisodeFeaturing the song “Places Unseen” by Lee Rosevere. More info and photographs for this episode at:
https://historyfangirl.com/the-lost-history-of-black-pioneers/
On today’s episode of the History Fangirl Podcast, we talk with a woman on a quest to visit every country on the planet, Jessica Elliott of How Dare She. And this week, Jessica and I talk about Chernobyl, a word that signifies a place, a devastating catastrophe, and a cultural moment that has resonated long after the explosion of the nuclear power plant there. We talk about the early days of Chernobyl, the small city of Pripyat, and of course the infamous meltdown. Jessica has a journalists’ ear for both truth-telling and storytelling, and I think you’re really going to find this week’s episode fascinating.
The Town of PripyatMuch like the way mining towns popped up in America to house workers who went down into the mines Pripyat was essentially built to house the people who worked on the Chernobyl power plant. Kiev was 90 miles from the plant, but Pripyat was only two, and both the town and the plant were constructed in 1970. As Jessica and I discuss, the town was full of optimism as families moved there for the economic opportunity surrounding this new technology of nuclear power. Of course, in hindsight, it’s a place that was filled with optimism but suffered greatly in the end, but it was very much a boomtown, a rare thing in the Soviet Union of the time.
The Invisible EnemyWhen the plant melted down, there still tragically still wasn’t a good understanding of what that meant. As Jessica tells me, people talked of the threat of the meltdown as an “invisible enemy.” In other words the radiation wasn’t something like an enemy army or airplane coming at the townspeople, which led to a lot of people ignoring the first warnings and evacuation orders. But as Jessica tells me on this week’s episode, the catastrophe was the result of bad design, bad safety measures and bad operations. She tells us how poor handling of a test led to a power surge, which then led to steam literally blowing the lid off of a reactor at about 1:30am. That caused a fire, and that fire then burns for 10 days. And that was one of the most tragic aspects of the meltdown: The effort to put out the fire led to pouring water on the facility, which caused more damage, and led to a lot of distraction: The fire seemed to be the problem, rather than the radiation.
Preventing a second explosionOnce authorities grasped the seriousness of the situation, the focus became stopping a second explosion. And as Jessica tells me, the reason they needed to stop that second explosion was because it would render essentially all of Europe uninhabitable. And another explosion wasn’t hypothetical there was literal magma sliding toward water they had thrown on the fire from the first event, and if the magma touched the water, the steam would build up and cause the second boom. So they sent in 10,000 miners to dig, but it was so hot in there the miners wore no protective gear. It had become both a localized disaster and an international one, as high levels of radiation suddenly begins to be noticed in Sweden and other Nordic countries. But it was 10 days until any international help was allowed to come into Ukraine.
Chernobyl as a tourism destinationOne of the strangest things about Chernobyl is that it’s now a tourism destination. You have to get approved to go there, but it is a place to visit, and is opened up specifically for visitors. As Jessica told me, it was opened for tourists in 2011, though after some bureaucratic wrestling it was shut down again until 2013. But why do people go there? As Jessica says, there’s been a rise in “dark tourism,” where people visit to see where some of the most tragic moments in history happened. But it’s also a “wild” place, as Jessica says, where you see not only decaying buildings, but how nature has taken it over. This is a really fascinating conversation about one of the most unique travel destinations in the heart of one of the late 20th century’s great tragedies.
Outline of This EpisodeFeaturing the song “Places Unseen” by Lee Rosevere.
On today’s episode of the History Fangirl Podcast, we talk with renowned travel blogger Megan Starr, who has carved out a fascinating niche in the travel world as an expert in the post-Soviet countries, particularly Ukraine. As Megan tells me, Kiev is a city that has been conquered and taken over and claimed so many times across its history, its own culture reflects those who have occupied the city in the past. We talk about Ukraine’s struggle for independence, why it’s in the news recently in both the East and the West, and where and how to travel to this fascinating city.
The Great FamineUkraine became independent from Russia in 1917, but that independence didn’t last long. Five years later the Soviet Union took it over. And then in the early 1930s, the Ukrainians suffered a terrible famine, which some believe was created by the Soviet policies. The Great Famine, as it was known, resulted in somewhere between 7 and 10 million ethnic Ukrainians dying. Many historians believe the famine was “man-made,” with Stalin orchestrating it to quell a Ukrainian independence movement.
Ukrainian Independence and the Orange RevolutionAfter the collapse of the Soviet Union, Ukraine was still besieged with political unrest. President Leonid Kuchma was caught on tape ordering the arrest of a journalist. Massive protests broke out around the country, and in the next presidential election, there was a run-off vote between candidates Viktor Yushchenko and Viktor Yanukovych, the latter being Kuchma’s candidate. Yanukovych won, but the results were seen as rigged, and a re-vote was held which found Yushchenko as the winner. Yanukovych actually won the presidential election in 2010. But while the Orange Revolution was bloodless, a new uprising began in 2013 called Euromaidan. The protests were massive, with around 100 people being killed and Yanukovych fleeing the country. He was later removed by the Ukrainian parliament in 2014. And Megan has traveled Ukraine before and after Euromaidan, and has some great insights into how it’s changed the country.
Russia and CrimeaAfter Yanukovych left, Russia made a move into Crimea, which sparked international outrage, and which has yet to resolve itself. As Megan says, the scene there is bleak, and there have been a lot of deaths in the conflict, but not a lot of people in the West even realize that Russia and Ukraine are technically still at war. As Megan says, every Ukrainian she knows has someone in their life who has died in the war. It’s a very tenuous situation, and one that reaches far beyond Crimea, even into American politics.
Traveling in UkraineDespite all of the recent conflicts and political instability, Kiev and Ukraine is a beautiful place to visit, and few know it better as a traveler than Megan. You do have to be careful with how you travel there, and Megan does a great job walking us through what to see and where to go. But as Megan says, the majority of Ukraine is safe to travel through. As Megan says, Kiev is her favorite city to visit, and it gives her butterflies every time she’s
Outline of This EpisodeOn today’s episode of the History Fangirl Podcast, we talk with Ravi Mehta, host of The Wealth of Nations podcast. If you’ve ever traveled through southeast Asia, you know the one place you do not want to stop is Singapore, unless you’re flush with cash. How did this small nation on the Malay peninsula come to have such a crazy economy? Ravi walks us through the history of Singapore, how it got to where it is today, and where it’s headed. If you want to talk Singapore, you have to talk to an economist, and we’re so lucky we got Ravi here today.
Raffling off SingaporeAs Ravi tells me on this week’s show, the Dutch had colonized Singapore in the late 1600s early 1700s, and then the British took it over in 1819. A man named Sir Stamford Raffles claimed Singapore for Britain, and the colony became an important part of the British Empire’s trade route. Stamford Raffles opened up a map and saw that the easiest way from East Asia to Europe was through Singapore, so strategically it was vital to the Empire’s trade. But another unusual feature favored Singapore: A deep, natural port where large ships could dock. And so it was geography and topography that made the country such a sought-after conquest.
Singapore in World War IIWorld War II wasn’t kind to anyone, but Singapore suffered a brutal period when the Japanese occupied the colony. The British were not prepared to defend Singapore, and so the Japanese were able to swoop in and take over. The Sook Ching massacre was a systemic cleansing of the ethnic Chinese in Singapore. The British surrendered the colony in 1942, and the Japanese army began purging what they perceived to be Chinese sympathizers. And while it was supposed to be limited to identified Communists and activists, the violence quickly spread. Japan claims 5,000 were killed, but the current Singapore government puts the number closer to 70,000.
Modern SingaporeDemocracy came to Singapore after World War II, but the first free and fair elections in Singapore didn’t truly happen until 1955. But it wasn’t until 1965 that Singapore separated from Malaysia and declared itself the Republic of Singapore. And really since the 1960s, Singapore has been a powerhouse economy. Ravi told me how its gross domestic product grew more than 10% every year in the late 1960s and early 1970s. To put that into perspective, the U.S. economy grows at about 2 or 3%. Singapore adopted very pro-business policies that helped it woo international trade partners. The result has been a wholly unique country, with very strict rules on its citizenry, high-paying government workers, and an economy that is the envy of many all over the world. This is a fascinating episode about a fascinating corner of the world.
Outline of This EpisodeFeaturing the song “Places Unseen” by Lee Rosevere. More info and photographs for this episode at:
https://historyfangirl.com/no-place-like-it%E2%80%A6ory-of-singapore/
I lived in South Philadelphia for seven years, and knew very little about the area’s connection to the Civil War or the Underground Railroad. But just a couple years ago, I read a story about how a house not far from where I used to live was actually visited by Harriet Tubman. And I think this is how many Americans live, right on top of history, particularly the history of the Civil War and the Underground Railroad, and don’t even realize it. My guest today, Jared Brock, author of The Road to Dawn: Josiah Henson and the Story That Sparked the Civil War, says that roughly one in three Americans live in close proximity to Civil War or Underground Railroad history, many never realizing it. On this episode we talk about what the Underground Railroad really was, the incredilble journey of Josiah Henson, and how listeners can learn more about Jacob’s documentary.
History in our backyardThe story goes that when Abraham Lincoln met Harriet Beecher Stowe, author of the classic work of American literature Uncle Tom’s Cabin, he said, “So you’re the little lady who started the Civil War.” That’s how important that book was. But as Jared told me, the book was based on a real man, Josiah Henson, and he soon found out Josiah’s house wasn’t far from where Jared lived at the time. As Jared says, this is the “history in our backyard” episode. But it’s also about how the Civil War and the Underground Railroad permeate our current lives.
Raiders of the Lost YorkThe Underground Railroad was the name for the network of people who worked to bring slaves north to freedom, but as Jared tells me in this episode, it meant a lot of different things. People traveled by rail, by foot, by boat, however they could to escape slavery. And while there were general routes taken, the “railroad” was always changing to avoid predictability. And the people who operated the railroad cut across cultural lines. The Quakers played a large role in the railroad, but so did free blacks.
The life of Josiah HensonThe story of Josiah Henson is incredible. As a child he was so sick that he was given to another slave owner, the man who owned Josiah’s mother, to see if she could nurse him back to health. He does get better and becomes very strong and distinguishes himself with his skill. He then becomes a preacher, and begins collecting money to buy his freedom. But it turned out the slave owner had pulled a scam on him, and sold him on the New Orleans slave market. Josiah’s escape actually predates the Underground Railroad, but it is an amazing story of being helped up into Canada, and arriving with a wife and four children. Jared provides amazing details from Josiah’s life, and great places to visit to connect with Josiah’s story.
Outline of This EpisodeFeaturing the song “Places Unseen” by Lee Rosevere. More info and photographs for this episode at: