The Gray Area with Sean Illing

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Was the cruelty the point? Aug 23, 2021

Show notes

Vox's Sean Illing talks with Adam Serwer, whose new book The Cruelty Is the Point documents the role of cruelty in American politics, the way it was weaponized by the GOP during the Trump administration, and how these tactics could continue to shape the future of America.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Adam Serwer (@AdamSerwer), staff writer, The Atlantic

References:

The Cruelty is the Point: The Past, Present, and Future of Trump's Americaby Adam Serwer (One World; 2021)
"The Cruelty Is the Point" by Adam Serwer (The Atlantic; Oct. 3, 2018)
"The Great Awokening" by Matt Yglesias (Vox; Apr. 1, 2019)

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This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Editor: Amy Drozdowska
VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson

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How seashells shaped the world — and predict our future Aug 19, 2021

Show notes

Vox's Benji Jones talks with author and environmental journalist Cynthia Barnett about seashells and her new book, The Sound of the Sea. They discuss the evolutionary function and human appeal of seashells, the surprising role shells played in ancient trade and commerce, and how climate change threatens the creatures that call them home.

Host: Benji Jones (@BenjiSJones), Environmental reporter, Vox

Guest: Cynthia Barnett (@cynthiabarnett), author

References:

“Seashells changed the world. Now they’re teaching us about the future of the oceans” by Benji Jones (Vox; Jul. 10)
The Sound of the Sea: Seashells and the Fate of the Oceans by Cynthia Barnett (W.W. Norton; 2021)
The Bailey-Matthews National Shell Museum (Sanibel Island, FL)
Evolution & Escalation: An Ecological History of Life by Geerat J. Vermeij (Princeton; 1993)
Cowrie Shells and Cowrie Money: A Global History by Bin Yang (Routledge; 2020)
Scallops in motion (YouTube)

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This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Editor: Amy Drozdowska
VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson

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Bill Maher on free speech, comedy, and his haters Aug 16, 2021

Show notes

Vox's Sean Illing talks with comedian Bill Maher about the risks and challenges of political comedy today, free speech, and whether ideology undermines humor. They discuss how Maher — who's been out front on issues like animal rights and climate change — has become such a lightning rod for a certain species of progressive.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Bill Maher (@billmaher), comedian; host of Real Time with Bill Maher

References:

Real Time with Bill Maher on HBO and Youtube
Bill Maher: stand-up tour schedule
"10 Percent of Twitter users create 80 percent of tweets, study finds" by Ren LaForme (Poynter; Apr. 24, 2019)
"Americans and 'Cancel Culture': Where Some See Calls for Accountability, Others See Censorship, Punishment" by Emily A. Vogels et al. (Pew Research; May 19)

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This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Editor: Amy Drozdowska
VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson

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Robert Reich wants you to take on the system Aug 12, 2021

Show notes

Vox's Jamil Smith talks with former labor secretary, author, and social media gadfly Robert Reich about how our elected officials have fallen victim to the interests of the wealthy, what the pandemic exposed about our political and economic systems, and his vision of healthy civic education.

Host: Jamil Smith (@JamilSmith), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Robert Reich (@RBReich), Professor of Public Policy, UC Berkeley; co-founder, Inequality Media

References:

The System: Who Rigged It, How We Fix It by Robert Reich (Penguin Random House; 2021)
"The 1994 Midterms: When Newt Gingrich Helped Republicans Win Big" by Lesley Kennedy (History; Oct. 9, 2018)
The Common Goodby Robert Reich (Penguin Random House; 2019)
"Mississippi Justice" on the 1964 murder of Michael Schwerner, James Chaney, and Andrew Goodman (American Experience; Oct. 15, 2020)

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This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Editor: Amy Drozdowska
VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson

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Marty Baron on the future of news Aug 09, 2021

Show notes

Vox's Sean Illing talks with former Washington Post executive editor Marty Baron about the state of journalism. They discuss Baron's post-retirement reflections on both the Post and the profession at large, what's gone wrong with the way news gets made in this country, and how deep the problems we're facing really are.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Marty Baron (@PostBaron), former Executive Editor, Washington Post

References:

"Marty Baron, executive editor who oversaw dramatic Washington Post expansion, announces retirement" by Paul Farhi (Washington Post; Jan. 26)
Spotlight,dir. Tom McCarthy (2015)
"Has Anyone Seen the President? Michael Lewis goes to Washington in search of Trump and winds up watching the State of the Union with Steve Bannon" by Michael Lewis (Bloomberg; Feb. 9, 2018)
"President Trump has made more than 20,000 false or misleading claims" by Glenn Kessler, Salvador Rizzo and Meg Kelly (Washington Post; July 13, 2020)
"'You might not like it, but it's smart politics'" by Jay Rosen (PressThink; Sept. 28, 2020)
"Bannon on Trump era technique: 'Flood the zone with sh*t'" (Brian Stelter on CNN's Reliable Sources; Nov. 1, 2020)
"'Flood the zone with shit': How misinformation overwhelmed our democracy" by Sean Illing (Vox; Feb. 6, 2020)
"Cash Flowed to Clinton Foundation Amid Russian Uranium Deal" by Jo Becker and Mike McIntire (New York Times; Apr. 23, 2015)

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This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Editor: Amy Drozdowska
VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson

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The death of cool Aug 05, 2021

Show notes

Vox culture contributor Anne Helen Petersen talks with writer Safy-Hallan Farah about the concept of 'cool.' They discuss different generations' approaches to determining what's cool, how the concept of 'cool' gets tangled up with class, capital, and consumption, and the ineffable process of cultivating taste in a digital world, where nothing's obscure and everything's available.

Host: Anne Helen Petersen (@annehelen), culture contributor, Vox

Guest: Safy-Hallan Farah (@SafyHallanFarah), writer and artist

References:

“The great American cool” by Safy-Hallan Farah (Vox; July 14)
Distinction: A Social Critique of the Judgement of Tasteby Pierre Bourdieu (tr. Richard Nice. Harvard; 1987)
Let’s Talk About Love: Why Other People Have Such Bad Tasteby Carl Wilson (Bloomsbury; 2014)
“What Gen Z’ers Really Think of Millennials” by Diyora Shadijanova (VICE; June 18, 2020)
@on_a_downward_spiral (Instagram)
The Sum of Small Things: A Theory of the Aspirational Class by Elizabeth Currid-Halkett (Princeton; 2018)
"Xanga, we hardly knew ye: Ode to the angstiest social network ever" by Kate Knibbs (Digital Trends; June 4, 2013)

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This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Editor: Amy Drozdowska
VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson

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We need to talk about UFOs. Seriously. Aug 02, 2021

Show notes

Vox's Sean Illing talks with international politics professor and amateur ufologist Alex Wendt about why it's time to start thinking more seriously about the earth-shattering implications of discovering extraterrestrial life. They discuss the taboos against serious scientific inquiry into extraterrestrial existence, the US military's official UFO report and the inexplicable videos released by the Pentagon, and what the possible explanations might be for what's been seen.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Alexander Wendt, Professor of International Security and Political Science, The Ohio State University

References:

"The Pentagon Released U.F.O. Videos. Don't Hold Your Breath for a Breakthrough" by Alan Yuhas (New York Times; June 3)
"Sovereignty and the UFO" by Alexander Wendt and Raymond Duvall (Political Theory; 2008)
"Wanted: A Science of UFOs" (TEDx Columbus; February 2020)
The Pentagon UFO Report: "Preliminary Assessment: Unidentified Aerial Phenomena" (June 25)
"Experts Weigh In on Pentagon UFO Report" by Leonard David (Scientific American; June 8)
"The Unexplained Phenomena of the U.F.O. Report" by Gideon Lewis-Kraus (The New Yorker; June 26)
"Those amazing Navy UFO videos may have down-to-earth explanations, skeptics contend" by Andrew Dyer (San Diego Union-Tribune; May 29)
Friedrich Nietzsche, Will to Power, Book One (1885-1886)

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This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Editor: Amy Drozdowska
VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson

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Philadelphia's progressive prosecutor Jul 29, 2021

Show notes

Vox's Jamil Smith talks with Larry Krasner, the former civil rights attorney who's been district attorney of Philadelphia since 2018. They talk about the bold agenda of criminal justice reform that Krasner's office has been trying to implement, the recent upturn in violent crime across the country, and how to stare down the seemingly unshakable system and make real change happen.

Host: Jamil Smith (@JamilSmith), Senior Correspondent, Vox

Guest: Larry Krasner (@DA_LarryKrasner), District Attorney of Philadelphia

References:

Philly D.A.documentary miniseries (Independent Lens; 2021)
"Krasner finds 'horrendous abuses of power' among cops, prosecutors in special report" by Katie Meyer (WHYY; June 15)
"The day Philadelphia bombed its own people" by Lindsey Norward (Vox; Aug. 15, 2019)
"The battle in Philly DA's Office: Conviction Integrity Unit report shows rocky path to reform" by Samantha Melamed (Philadelphia Inquirer; June 15)
For the People: A Story of Justice and Powerby Larry Krasner (Penguin Random House; 2021)

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This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Editor: Amy Drozdowska
VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson

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Fareed Zakaria on the fate of democracy Jul 26, 2021

Show notes

Vox's Sean Illing talks with CNN's Fareed Zakaria about the global trend in democratic decline, and whether we should worry about America. They discuss why the Republican Party has become an existential threat to our constitutional system, whether he thinks Democrats are capable of rising to the challenge, and what reasons we have for optimism.

Host: Sean Illing (@seanilling), Interviews Writer, Vox

Guest: Fareed Zakaria (@FareedZakaria), Host of CNN's GPS, Washington Post columnist

References:

“Fareed Zakaria on the most important lesson of the Trump presidency” by Sean illing (Vox; Jan. 19, 2018)
“The Rise of Illiberal Democracy” by Fareed Zakaria (Foreign Affairs; 1997)
“The Biggest Threat to Democracy Is the GOP Stealing the Next Election” by Steven Levitsky and Daniel Ziblatt (The Atlantic; July 9)
Parties and Politics in America by Clinton Rossiter (Cornell; 1960)
“The Institutionalization of the U.S. House of Representatives” by Nelson Polsby (American Political Science Review; 1968)

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This episode was made by:

Producer: Erikk Geannikis
Editor: Amy Drozdowska
VP, Vox Audio: Liz Kelly Nelson

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Jane Goodall on the power of hope Jul 22, 2021

Show notes

Vox's Sigal Samuel talks with world-renowned primatologist Jane Goodall about what six decades of studying chimpanzees has taught her about humans. They discuss the work people can do to protect animals and the environment, and the immense power of hope.

Host: Sigal Samuel (@SigalSamuel), Senior Reporter, Vox

Guest: Jane Goodall (@JaneGoodallInst), primatologist and author

References: