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    Education

    The Engineering Leadership Podcast

    We share the most critical perspectives, habits & examples of great software engineering leaders to help evolve leadership in the tech industry.

    Join our community of software engineering leaders @ www.sfelc.com!

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    Copyright: © 327413

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    Latest Episodes:
    Transitioning to Crypto with Lewis Tuff, VPE @ Blockchain.com #68 Jan 18, 2022
    Show notes

    Lewis Tuff (VP of Engineering @ Blockchain.com) joins us to share his experience on building a career in the cryptocurrency space! We cover his transition from traditional finance/tech to crypto, how to shift your mindset from centralized to decentralized, qualities that lead to success, tactics to help you gain exposure and experience, AND why it’s not too late to start your career in crypto!

    ABOUT LEWIS TUFF

    Lewis (@tuffleuk) is the Vice President of Engineering at Blockchain.com where he is responsible for the technology underpinning Blockchain.com’s services. As the 2nd engineering hire at Revolut, he scaled the team to 50+ and spearheaded the initiative to bring cryptocurrencies to Revolut. He built the first of its kind crypto offering within a challenger bank over the course of a couple of months and was responsible for bringing $300M+ trading revenue in due course.

    In March 2018 Lewis joined Blockchain.com as an engineering lead to be part of one of the most important companies in crypto infrastructure, rising to the Head of Platform Engineering as the company and industry grew. That same year he was included on Business Insider’s “35 under 35” in fintech. Lewis began his career building trading and risk technology systems at Goldman Sachs and UBS. He lives in London.

    SHOW NOTES:

    • Patrick’s FOMO after learning his dad owned Doge-coin… (2:03)
    • How Lewis went from traditional finance to a career in blockchain/crypto (3:35)
    • One question to help you gain career perspective as an engineering leader (9:36)
    • The principles behind blockchain technology that led Lewis to “go all in” (10:34)
    • Are blockchain engineering challenges harder to solve? (13:03)
    • Unprecedented (but not unsolvable) problems in blockchain (14:56)
    • Staying lean & focused while balancing team size & scope (19:47)
    • Making the transition from "centralized" to "decentralized" thinking (24:07)
    • How to use Github to source great engineering candidates (28:07)
    • Do engineering leaders need to be domain experts to manage teams in blockchain/crypto? (30:15)
    • How engineering leadership is similar in blockchain companies & crypto’s ethos of “paying it forward” (33:29)
    • Why it’s not too late to start a career in blockchain/crypto (36:14)
    • How blockchain leverages the power of community (38:44)
    • The first thing you should do to explore a career in blockchain: Try out the products & technology! (45:25)
    • Where are the hottest markets/locations for cryptocurrency right now? (46:46)
    • Rapid-Fire Questions (47:41)
    • Takeaways (50:20)

    LINKS AND RESOURCES

    • Cryptocurrency on Github - Repositories, packages, and more for the budding engineers who want to get their feet wet.

    Check out our friends and sponsor, Jellyfish. Jellyfish helps you align engineering work with business priorities and enables you to make better strategic decisions.

    Learn more at Jellyfish.co/elc

    Looking for other ways to get involved with ELC? Check out all of our upcoming events, peer groups, and other programs at www.sfelc.com!


    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.


    Building Inclusive Products with Jeremy King #67 Jan 11, 2022
    Show notes

    Jeremy King (SVP of Engineering @ Pinterest) discusses some of the challenges, principles & frameworks behind building inclusive products. We also cover filtering decisions through your company mission, investing in rest and emerging challenges around creating serendipity with ideas, onboarding, retaining talent and the hard logistics of workplace flexibility.

    ABOUT JEREMY KING

    Jeremy King is Senior Vice President of Engineering at Pinterest, where he leads the company’s technical direction and oversees the entire Engineering team building deeply technical products, platforms and machine learning systems.

    Previously, he was the CTO of Walmart, where he led the digital transformation effort of the company including customer technology, merchant technology and supply chain technology that covered all Walmart U.S. stores and eCommerce. Prior to that, King was Executive Vice President of technology at LiveOps, and Vice President of engineering and software development at eBay.

    He holds a bachelor’s degree in information technology from San Jose State University, and is an advisory board member for the CTO Forum, an organization that brings together senior leaders across the technology industry to collaborate on key issues and accelerate innovation across organizations.

    SHOW NOTES:

    • Building inclusive products starts by having diverse data sets
    • Why your data is probably biased already
    • Where to start with building inclusive products
    • Three principles to build inclusive products
    • How Pinterest disrupts entrenched patterns of thinking & balances innovation and action
    • How to decide which experiments to implement
    • Why ROI should not be the only metric of effectiveness
    • How to filter decisions through your company’s mission
    • How AR aligns with Pinterest’s mission & allows “Pinners” to explore & experiment with different identities
    • Covid’s impact on retaining talent
    • How “investing in rest” & cultivating work-life balance can increase productivity
    • How to schedule a day off for your entire engineering org
    • Upcoming Industry Challenges: building in serendipity, onboarding in a remote-first workplace & the logistics of workplace flexibility
    • Rapid-Fire Questions
    • Takeaways

    LINKS AND RESOURCES

    • Inclusive Search and Recommendations - Nadia Fawaz’s talk on How Inclusive Search, & AI works at Pinterest

    Check out our friends and sponsor, Jellyfish. Jellyfish helps you align engineering work with business priorities and enables you to make better strategic decisions.

    Learn more at Jellyfish.co/elc

    Looking for other ways to get involved with ELC? Check out all of our upcoming events, peer groups, and other programs at www.sfelc.com!


    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.


    Addressing Burnout in Your Engineering Org with Erica Lockheimer, Sabry Tozin & Lori Allen #66 Jan 04, 2022
    Show notes

    This conversation is about BURNOUT! You’ll hear holistic perspectives to help you identify the causes, conditions, & early indicators of burnout. Plus organizational & individual practices to address & become resilient to burnout with Sabry Tozin (VPE @ LinkedIn), Lori Allen (VP HR @ LinkedIn), & Erica Lockheimer (VPE, LinkedIn Talent Solutions, LinkedIn Learning & Glint @ LinkedIn).

    About Erica Lockheimer

    Erica Lockheimer is VP of Engineering, Talent Solutions, Learning, and Glint @ LinkedIn. During her more than 10 years at the company, she built the Growth Engineering team into a high-performing 120-person team, focused on increasing membership, and deepening member engagement. In January 2018, she was promoted to Head of Engineering for the LinkedIn Learning team, formerly known as Lynda.com.

    She is also responsible for LinkedIn’s Women In Tech (WIT) initiative, which is focused on empowering women in technical roles at the company. Prior to LinkedIn, she worked at Good Technology as Director of Server Engineering to securely manage and synchronize e-mail and calendar data between Exchange and mobile devices. Erica loves the challenge of starting with something nascent and carving out the right strategy, hiring the best people, and plotting a course to drive results. In 2014 and 2015, Erica was recognized as one of the top 22 women engineers in the world by Business Insider.

    About Sabry Tozin

    Sabry Tozin is the Vice President of Enterprise Productivity Engineering at LinkedIn. In this capacity, Sabry leads the organization that powers the productivity of LinkedIn employees through innovative, scalable, and secure information technology solutions. Before joining LinkedIn, Sabry held engineering leadership roles at Netflix and IGN Entertainment. He’s a seasoned technology leader with over 20 years of experience in Silicon Valley.

    About Lori Allen

    Lori is a Speaker and Coach and serves as VP of Human Resources, Engineering for LinkedIn. LinkedIn’s Mission is to create economic opportunity for every member of the global workforce which aligns to Lori’s personal goal of helping others reach their full potential.

    She has spent the last 20+ years as an HR Leader responsible for designing talent strategies and partnering with Executives to drive business results. Lori is passionate about Diversity Inclusion and belonging and was named in the 2018 list of women worth watching in the Profiles in Diversity Journal.

    Originally from Wichita, Kansas, she graduated from the University of Kansas with a BA and later received a master’s degree from Webster University. Lori has resided in the Bay area for the past 20+ years and has had the privilege of working

    Shownotes

    • Burnout in Q1-2021 & what caused LinkedIn to take a company-wide week off (3:31)
    • Are patterns of burnout repeating with the new covid variant? (7:59)
    • What are the causes, conditions, & indicators of burnout in engineering orgs? (12:19)
    • How to detect & identify the early signs of burnout in your engineering team (19:14)
    • Favorite non-invasive "how are you doing" questions to get better signal from your engineering team (23:47)
    • How to build resilience against burnout by leveraging Lencioni’s “First Team Concept” (31:01)
    • Conversation framework for internal mobility (36:44)
    • Erica, Lori & Sabry’s personal practices to prevent burnout (40:29)
    • What do you admire most about working with each other? (42:31)
    • Takeaways (44:59)

    Check out our friends and sponsor, Jellyfish. Jellyfish helps you align engineering work with business priorities and enables you to make better strategic decisions.

    Learn more at Jellyfish.co/elc

    Looking for other ways to get involved with ELC? Check out all of our upcoming events, peer groups, and other programs at www.sfelc.com!


    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.


    Trailer: Our 2022 Season Launches Next Week! Dec 28, 2021
    Show notes

    Our 2022 season starts next week on Tues 1/4! Check out this trailer for a preview of our first few guests covering topics like burnout, building inclusive products, and making the career transition into crypto! Looking for other ways to get involved with ELC? Check out all of our upcoming events, peer groups, and other programs at https://sfelc.com/ ! Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See https://pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.


    Building Autonomous Teams & Engineering Career Ladders with Sri Viswanath #65 Oct 12, 2021
    Show notes

    Sri Viswanath (CTO @ Atlassian) shares Atlassian’s approach to building autonomous teams, the story behind Project Pascal & how Atlassian built their engineering career ladder! You’ll learn Sri’s 3 key areas to creating autonomy (principles, priorities & process), creating transparency at scale, and common & counter-intuitive process changes. Plus the key elements to build/launch a successful engineering career growth plan!

    ABOUT SRI VISWANATH

    Sri is the chief technology officer (CTO) at Atlassian. Sri joined the company in January 2016 and is at the helm of Atlassian's cloud-native journey – assuming responsibility over the building and scaling Atlassian's cloud platform. Before joining Atlassian, Sri served as CTO and senior vice president of engineering at Groupon, the vice president of R&D for mobile computing at VMware, and the senior vice president of engineering at Ning – where he was instrumental in the company's acquisition by Glam.

    He also led the development of a number of very successful open-source and B-to-B products at Sun Microsystems, served on the Board of Directors for SendGrid, and has a number of patents. Sri currently serves on the Board of Directors for Splunk and holds a M.S. in Management from Stanford University and a M.S. in Computer Science from Clemson University.

    LINKS & RESOURCES

    • Atlassian's Engineering Handbook: https://www.atlassian.com/engineering/handbook
    • Atlassian's Project Pascal: https://www.atlassian.com/engineering/career-framework

    SHOW NOTES

    • Sri’s people-first approach to leadership (1:50)
    • Why “putting people first” is key to building autonomous teams (3:17)
    • How Sri operationalizes his approach to leadership (4:35)
    • What processes should you prioritize first, to build autonomous teams? (9:31)
    • Common & counter-intuitive process changes for engineering leaders to assess (15:32)
    • How Atlassian leverages pre-mortems for major projects at Atlassian (20:29)
    • How Atlassian’s engineering culture creates transparency at scale (22:22)
    • Where to start with building your own engineering handbook: principles, prioritization, & process (24:29)
    • Atlassian’s approach to engineering career growth & “Project Pascal” (32:20)
    • How Atlassian defined each role in it’s engineering career ladder (39:48)
    • How Atlassian formed cross-functional working groups to define different roles (42:23)
    • How different opinions were included in Project Pascal (43:38)
    • How Atlassian incorporated feedback to improve it’s career framework (46:08)
    • Rapid Fire Questions (48:15)
    • Takeaways (54:15)

    ---

    Special thanks to our exclusive accessibility partner Mesmer!Mesmer's AI-bots automate mobile app accessibility testing to ensure your app is always accessible to everybody. To jump-start, your accessibility and inclusion initiative, visit mesmerhq.com/ELC

    Listen to our Bonus Episode: Building Your AI Organization with Maia Brenner! Listen HERE: https://spoti.fi/2WLX9Cm

    Ready to own your AI Strategy? Learn more about Tryolabs HERE: https://bit.ly/39QpNoH

    Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/engineeringleadership/message


    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.


    The Impact of Mentoring & Paying It Forward with Li Fan #64 Oct 05, 2021
    Show notes

    Li Fan (CTO @ Circle) shares about the power of mentoring and the impact of paying it forward! We cover Li’s career journey, the mentors that have inspired and shaped her leadership, and how Li’s passed along those lessons to the people she’s mentored. Through Li’s stories, we uncover the long-term impact and ripple effect when you pay it forward.

    ABOUT LI FAN

    Li Fan is CTO at Circle, a global fintech firm enabling business to harness the power of digital currencies and public blockchains (Circle is the principle operator of USD Coin). Prior to Circle, Li was CTO at Lime, an innovative technology company that connects and empowers urban living through mobility. Before Lime, Li was SVP of engineering at Pinterest leading all 600+ engineers to execute technology strategy and deliver company priorities. Li was a Senior Director of Engineering in Google, accountable for Google’s popular image search and was Vice President of Engineering at Baidu.

    SHOW NOTES

    • Why this conversation with Li Fan is so special (2:02)
    • When has a mentor made a meaningful difference for you? (3:30)
    • How mentors help show you what’s possible in your career and life (6:29)
    • How mentors inspire and shape your leadership (10:00)
    • Mental models for a successful mentor relationship (13:29)
    • Paying it forward and becoming a mentor (15:19)
    • How to balance your team’s retention and your mentee’s career growth (19:12)
    • The hard-to-imagine long term impact of mentoring (25:20)
    • Staying in touch with your mentors and the people you mentor (29:17)
    • The long-term ripple effect when you “pay it forward” and mentor others (31:22)
    • Finding the right mentor and creating mutually beneficial relationships (36:04)
    • How Art influences Li’s approach to engineering leadership (39:51)
    • Rapid Fire Questions (44:17)
    • Takeaways (47:38)

    ---
    Special thanks to our exclusive accessibility partner Mesmer!Mesmer's AI-bots automate mobile app accessibility testing to ensure your app is always accessible to everybody. To jump-start, your accessibility and inclusion initiative, visit mesmerhq.com/ELC
    Listen to our Bonus Episode: Building Your AI Organization with Maia Brenner! Listen HERE: https://spoti.fi/2WLX9Cm


    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.


    BONUS: Building Your AI Organization with Maia Brenner Oct 05, 2021
    Show notes

    Maia Brenner (AI Specialist & Head of Business Development @ Tryolabs) shares the fundamentals to begin your company’s AI/ML journey! We cover the most common challenges & pitfalls eng leaders face when investing in AI, how to understand feasibility/impact & ROI of different AI/ML initiatives, how to build your AI roadmap, how to break down massive AI/ML projects into small experiments, and how to accelerate different phases of your AI/ML strategy with partners like Tryolabs.

    ABOUT MAIA BRENNER

    Maia Brenner is a passionate data scientist and economist with strong programming skills, a mathematical and statistical background, and work experience in consulting and the public sector. As an AI Specialist at Tryolabs she helps clients maximize the full potential of data science and machine learning to solve their business problems.

    Maia's experience in the consulting industry covers several projects related to demand forecasting, price optimization, customer segmentation, and natural language processing applications, among others. As a technical consultant, she has helped design and develop AI solutions for companies from several different industries such as Retail, Finance, Pharma, Logistics, Transportation, Hospitality, Education, and more.

    She is also a professor in several universities and enjoys working on initiatives of AI4SocialGood. She has helped in the application of Machine Learning to improve the Public Education sector and is involved in Gender Inequality research groups.

    SHOW NOTES

    • The origin story behind Tryolabs (2:33)
    • Common AI/ML challenges Tryolabs helps solve (5:48)
    • Most painful problems with building AI capabilities (7:50)
    • What are the fundamentals to build an AI organization? (10:11)
    • How do you integrate AI/ML into your core business? (12:42)
    • What problems can (or can’t) be solved with AI/ML? (15:18)
    • How Tryolabs helps companies to identify specific AI/ML use cases (16:59)
    • Common pitfalls when investing in & integrating AI/ML into your company (18:19)
    • How to start small & experiment with AI/ML solutions (20:14)
    • How Tryolabs scopes & iterates their AI/ML projects (24:42)
    • Metrics, KPIs & other ways to determine feasibility, impact & ROI of your AI/ML project (26:53)
    • How to build an AI/ML roadmap for your organization (30:34)
    • How Tryolabs accelerates building your AI organization (34:28)

    ---

    Ready to own your AI Strategy? Learn more about Tryolabs HERE: https://bit.ly/39QpNoH


    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.


    Speed vs. Quality with Richard Wong #63 Sep 28, 2021
    Show notes

    Richard Wong (SVP of Engineering @ Coursera) shares how the dilemma of speed & quality evolves as a company scales. We cover how to balance building new features & fixing quality issues, internal & external signals to help you determine your priorities, & how to gain alignment. Plus how to avoid over-engineering!

    ABOUT RICHARD WONG
    Richard oversees Coursera's infrastructure and product development. Prior to joining Coursera, Richard held various engineering leadership roles at the early days of LinkedIn, with a key focus on scaling the Jobs marketplace and Talent Solutions to become its first billion-dollar product.

    Richard also oversaw the product development for Linkedin international expansions. Prior to LinkedIn, Richard spent over a decade at Microsoft leading various product development teams including MSN Hotmail, Active Directory, Windows Server, and System Center. Richard received his Master’s degree from Stanford University.

    SHOW NOTES

    • The dilemma of speed v. quality (1:49)
    • Richard’s personal example of speed v. quality dilemma (5:58)
    • How Coursera improved product quality (7:47)
    • Tactical steps to improve product quality (10:34)
    • How to avoid over-engineering & leverage customer complaints to improve product quality (16:37)
    • How to balance speed & quality as an engineering leader (20:06)
    • How to get alignment on quality issues with executive & cross-functional teams (25:25)
    • How to prevent spending too much time on quality-focused engineering work (29:46)
    • What are the signals for when you need to shift between speed v. quality? (33:22)
    • How the dilemma of speed v. quality change as you scale (38:52)
    • How Richard allocates resources to focus on new features or quality (42:02)
    • Rapid Fire Questions (48:28)
    • Takeaways (54:17)

    ---

    Special thanks to our exclusive accessibility partner Mesmer!Mesmer's AI-bots automate mobile app accessibility testing to ensure your app is always accessible to everybody. To jump-start, your accessibility and inclusion initiative, visit mesmerhq.com/ELC

    Interested in ELC's Peer Group Program? Click here to learn more & apply: https://bit.ly/3oBwLDC


    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.


    Changing Priorities & Making Massive Engineering Pivots with Vivian Shen #62 Sep 21, 2021
    Show notes

    Juni scaled 2x-3x week-over-week in the 1st month of Covid-19 restrictions. Vivian Shen (Co-Founder & CEO @ Juni Learning) shares why they had to massively shift priorities from growth to internal tooling/operations & how they gained buy-in from their engineering teams throughout the process. Plus you’ll hear about their pitch process to surface innovative ideas, and how the “engineering pod” team structure increases ownership, creativity & directly connects engineering to user impact!


    ABOUT VIVIAN SHEN, CO-FOUNDER & CEO @ JUNI LEARNING


    Vivan's experience ranges from strategy development for Fortune 500 companies to building teams from scratch at startups -- and everything in between. Prior to founding Juni in 2017 to satisfy the gap in the education system, Vivian served as the Director of Product at Operator, where she launched multiple products in the US and China. She also spent two years as a Consultant in McKinsey & Company’s Silicon Valley office, working with high-growth tech companies. She began her career as a software engineer at Google.


    Vivian has been featured on Forbes’ 30 Under 30, as well as in Fast Company, TechCrunch and Fortune. She holds a B.S in Computer Science from Stanford, with a minor in Creative Writing. Today, she is passionate about helping kids discover and cultivate new interests and skills, empowering them to learn through the power of community and connections.

    LINKS SHARED

    IDEO Design Thinking Blog with David Kelly - https://www.ideo.com/journal

    SHOW NOTES

    • Juni’s Covid pivot: Why they focused on engineering operations & internal tooling (2:19)
    • Making the decision to pivot (4:59)
    • Prioritizing and reallocating engineering resources (8:49)
    • Refocusing the team and getting buy-in (11:01)
    • Dealing with resistance/friction on the company’s direction (13:50)
    • Juni’s pitch process to surface new ideas (17:06)
    • How to leverage end-users to motivate your teams (21:03)
    • Increase ownership and creativity with “Engineering Pods” (26:13)
    • Lessons learned on communicating priorities (28:21)
    • When to revisit your orgs priorities while scaling (32:09)
    • Shifting focus back on growth (34:52)
    • Collaborating in planning meetings with analytics / biz ops & engineering to impact end users (37:10)
    • Rapid Fire Questions (40:13)
    • Takeaways (46:19)

    ---

    Special thanks to our exclusive accessibility partner Mesmer! Mesmer's AI-bots automate mobile app accessibility testing to ensure your app is always accessible to everybody. To jump-start, your accessibility and inclusion initiative, visit mesmerhq.com/ELC

    Interested in ELC's Peer Group Program? Click here to learn more & apply: https://bit.ly/3oBwLDC


    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.


    The “Energy Audit,” Reclaiming Your Time, & Increasing Ownership with Brad Henrickson #61 Sep 14, 2021
    Show notes

    Brad Henrickson (Leadership Coach, Former CTO @ Scoop Technologies) shares how to reclaim ownership of your time by using an energy/calendar audit! You’ll learn the mechanics of how to conduct an energy audit and how to transform energy-draining moments engineering leaders commonly encounter, into energy-giving moments. Plus how to apply this at scale to amplify energy AND increase ownership throughout your entire org!

    ABOUT BRAD HENRICKSON, LEADERSHIP COACH, FORMER CTO @ SCOOP TECHNOLOGIES

    Brad is a seasoned technology leader with a broad range of experience from founding companies, to building product, to maturing organizations to driving culture and results in highly dynamic environments.

    Brad has an extensive range of skills including but not limited to: building recruiting and hiring pipelines, organization design and SDLC design, people management, product management, board representation, budgeting, performance management, culture advocacy and delivery of critical technical projects.

    Outside of the technical domain you will find Brad out rock climbing, surfing and mountaineering. He grounds himself through his connection to the outdoors and through his meditation practice which he has been doing for 20 years.

    LINKS & RESOURCES

    • Conscious Leadership Group: https://conscious.is/
    • Henrickson Leadership: https://henricksonleadership.com/
    • Sign up for Brad's Newsletter: https://bradhenrickson.substack.com/people/38350988-brad-henrickson
    • Follow Brad on Twitter: https://twitter.com/lowercase24

    SHOW NOTES

    • Introducing the “energy audit” (2:31)
    • “Time is an expression of your priorities and values” (4:21)
    • How an “energy audit” impacts how you spend your time (5:42)
    • How to address routine meetings on your calendar that drain your energy (7:25)
    • How to conduct your own calendar review & energy audit (10:55)
    • How to approach a calendar review when you don't have total control of your time (14:36)
    • Common energy audit trends for engineering leaders (18:13)
    • How to transform energy-draining meetings to make them exquisite (19:34)
    • Unplanned energy giving experiences to have on the calendar (22:54)
    • How to transform activities from energy draining to energy giving (25:35)
    • Renters vs. Owners & how to increase ownership in your engineering team (27:37)
    • How to use energy audits at different scales of your organization (32:24)
    • Framework to start a conversation about energy draining activities (33:50)
    • How to get people to share problems without emotion or fear of judgement (37:00)
    • Other contexts to apply the energy audit beyond meetings (39:34)
    • How to use the energy audit to amplify your energy (41:16)
    • Rapid Fire Questions (44:11)
    • Takeaways (48:01)

    ---

    Special thanks to our exclusive accessibility partner Mesmer!Mesmer's AI-bots automate mobile app accessibility testing to ensure your app is always accessible to everybody. To jump-start, your accessibility and inclusion initiative, visit mesmerhq.com/ELC

    Interested in ELC's Peer Group Program? Click here to learn more & apply: https://bit.ly/3oBwLDC


    Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.


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