The CopDoc Podcast: Aiming for Excellence in Leadership - Dr. Steve Morreale - Host - TheCopDoc Podcast

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Bruce O'Brien - From New Zealand to London: Policing Without Borders Aug 26, 2025

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The CopDoc Podcast - Season 8 - Episode 159

When criminal networks operate across continents, police must work beyond borders. In this compelling conversation with Assistant Commissioner Bruce O'Brien, we explore the critical world of international police collaboration from the perspective of someone building these vital connections daily.
As New Zealand Police's Senior Liaison Officer in London, O'Brien bridges law enforcement across four regions: the UK, Europe, Middle East, and Africa. He reveals how these partnerships function in practice – from facilitating evidence gathering in transnational cases to sharing intelligence about emerging threats. "Criminal networks are very well connected and know no boundaries," O'Brien explains, highlighting how technology enables criminals to coordinate sophisticated operations remotely.
The discussion delves into the methamphetamine trade threatening New Zealand and Australia, requiring close cooperation with Pacific partners to intercept shipments. O'Brien offers fascinating insights into the UK's approach to facial recognition technology, balancing effective crime-fighting with transparent ethical frameworks that maintain public trust.
We explore O'Brien's leadership journey from frontline supervisor to strategic leader, examining how policing leadership evolves while its fundamental purpose remains constant: "delivering good services to the community and holding those who create harm accountable." His perspective on what future police leaders need – technological fluency paired with unwavering integrity – provides valuable guidance for anyone in law enforcement.
For those interested in global security, criminal justice, or leadership development, this conversation offers rare insights into how international police cooperation works in our increasingly interconnected world. What emerging threats might travel from one continent to another? How do police agencies share information across different legal systems? Listen to discover how these critical relationships protect communities worldwide.

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If you'd like to arrange for facilitated training, or consulting, or talk about steps you might take to improve your leadership and help in your quest for promotion, contact Steve at stephen.morreale@gmail.com

From Italy to US: Police Commander's Journey - Diego Zannella - Lake Forest Park, WA Police Aug 12, 2025

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The CopDoc Podcast- Season 8 - Episode 158

Ever wonder what American policing looks like through the eyes of someone trained in European military special forces? Commander Diego Zanella offers that rare perspective, having journeyed from Italian paratrooper to American police commander. His story isn't just about cultural transitions—it reveals universal leadership truths that transcend borders.
Born and raised in Florence, Zanella moved to Seattle at age 31 with minimal English skills but a wealth of tactical experience. After 9/11, he felt compelled to serve his adopted country, joining law enforcement rather than returning to military service. Now commanding patrol operations at Lake Forest Park Police Department near Seattle, Zanella brings fresh eyes to American policing traditions.
What makes this conversation particularly fascinating is Zanella's ability to compare European and American approaches to police leadership. While many European officers undergo 3-5 years of academic training before assuming leadership roles, American officers often pursue higher education mid-career. This contrast raises thought-provoking questions about how we develop police leaders.
Zanella champions what he calls the "upside-down pyramid" of leadership—where commanders exist primarily to support sergeants, who support officers, who serve the community. "I am not the face of the department," he emphasizes. "My officers are." This servant-leadership philosophy has shaped his approach across multiple agencies.
Perhaps most inspiring is Zanella's commitment to continuous learning. He maintains an Italian-language podcast sharing American policing methods with Carabinieri and Polizia officers, mentors aspiring leaders, and encourages officers to keep leadership journals for reflection. His parting wisdom resonates regardless of your field: "No matter your experience or education, keep learning something new every day, so tomorrow you can be better than today."
Whether you're in law enforcement, interested in cross-cultural leadership perspectives, or simply appreciate stories of reinvention, this conversation offers valuable insights on building bridges between traditions while never stopping your leadership journey. Subscribe to hear more thought-provoking discussions with innovative police leaders from around the world.

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Erik Smith - Colonel, Kansas Highway Patrol - Be Hard on Problems, Soft on People Jul 29, 2025

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Season 8 - The CopDoc Podcast - Episode 157

Colonel Eric Smith's journey from Boeing sheet metal mechanic to leading the Kansas Highway Patrol reveals what transformative police leadership looks like in action. After a chance encounter with a sergeant led him to volunteer as a dispatcher, Smith found his calling in law enforcement, spending nine years with the Sedgwick County Sheriff's Office before joining DEA for 21 years, eventually rising to high-ranking leadership positions.
When Smith took command of a divided Kansas Highway Patrol in 2023, he immediately embarked on statewide listening tours, but with a crucial difference from traditional "meet-and-greets" – he documented every concern, created accountability spreadsheets, and demanded solutions from command staff. His approach shocked some senior leaders comfortable with the status quo, but resonated deeply with officers hungry for meaningful change.
At the heart of Smith's philosophy is the belief that "you should be hard on problems and soft on people." This mindset transformed KHP's rigid disciplinary structure, creating an environment where officers aren't afraid to take necessary risks or admit mistakes. By recognizing that few errors are truly career-ending, Smith cultivates a culture of growth rather than fear.
The parallels between Smith's DEA experience and his current role are striking. Just as he understood that federal agents must respect that "it's their town, I'm just walking through it" when working with local agencies, Smith approaches relationships with county sheriffs from a position of humility. "The question that should come out of our mouth is 'What can I do to help?'" he explains, not "I'm taking over now."
Smith grounds KHP's purpose in three principles: service requires sacrifice, courtesy demands recognizing dignity in every person, and protection takes courage. By connecting these values to personal identity – "you are not playing FOR KHP, you ARE KHP" – he transforms abstract concepts into deeply meaningful guideposts for officers.
Want to build an organization where people feel valued and accomplish extraordinary things? Listen to this conversation between two former DEA colleagues who understand that effective leadership isn't about position or power – it's about creating environments where people know they matter. Subscribe now for more insights from law enforcement leaders transforming police culture from within.

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From Boston to LA: Jim McDonnell - One Chief's Journey Through Three Departments Jul 15, 2025

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The CopDoc Podcast - Season 8 - Episode 156

Chief Jim McDonald's journey in law enforcement reads like a masterclass in adaptive leadership. From his bold decision to leave Boston for Los Angeles with just $400 and two suitcases to his current role leading one of America's largest police departments, McDonald exemplifies how stepping beyond comfort zones catalyzes professional growth.
The conversation reveals McDonald's approach to leadership transitions across three major departments – LAPD, Long Beach PD, and LA Sheriff's Department – before returning to lead LAPD. Rather than imposing previous methods, he entered each organization with respect for existing traditions while bringing fresh perspectives. "I did make some changes but tried to be respectful of the organization and its history," he notes, demonstrating how balancing innovation with cultural awareness builds effective leadership.
McDonald's candid assessment of modern policing challenges is particularly compelling. While facing critical staffing shortages (1,400 officers below authorized strength), unprecedented natural disasters, and civil unrest, his department still achieved a 30% reduction in homicides. This success stems from his commitment to both operational excellence and human connection – listening more than talking, valuing diverse perspectives, and ensuring officers have proper wellness support.
Perhaps most thought-provoking is McDonald's reflection on how the profession has evolved. Today's officers must navigate increasingly complex social dynamics, particularly mental health crises, while maintaining tactical readiness. "We need someone who can be compassionate with a traumatized child, then rush into a school to stop an active shooter," he explains, highlighting the multidimensional skills modern officers require.
As LAPD prepares for world-stage events including the 2026 FIFA World Cup and 2028 Olympics, McDonald's experience across multiple departments provides unique insights into building cooperative security frameworks. His optimism about policing's future, grounded in admiration for incoming officers' innovative perspectives, offers hope for a profession facing unprecedented challenges.
Discover why McDonald believes getting uncomfortable is essential for professional growth and how his seasoned leadership is reshaping LAPD for 21st century challenges. His journey proves that sometimes the most valuable career moves are the ones you initially resist.

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Dr. Mike Marquardt: The Power of Questions: How Great Leaders Ask Instead of Tell Jul 01, 2025

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The CopDoc Podcast - Season 8 - Episode 155

What if the most powerful leadership tool isn't having all the answers, but asking the right questions? Dr. Michael Marquardt, after studying leaders across 50 countries for over five decades, discovered a surprising pattern—the greatest leaders in every field share one fundamental skill: they ask exceptional questions.
In this thought-provoking conversation with Dr. Steve Morreale, Marquardt challenges traditional notions of leadership, particularly in policing where command-and-control approaches have dominated. Drawing from his extensive research and bestselling book "Leading with Questions," he explains how the simple act of inquiry can transform leadership effectiveness and organizational culture.
For police leaders, the implications are profound. While officers excel at tactical questioning during investigations, leadership requires a different approach—one that uses open-ended questions to unlock creativity, build trust, and develop problem-solving capabilities throughout the organization. When leaders ask "What are you seeing?" or "How can we improve?" rather than issuing directives, they tap into collective intelligence and foster genuine engagement.
Marquardt introduces the concept of "action learning"—reflecting on experiences to continuously improve—and explains how questioning creates learning organizations that adapt and thrive amid complexity. He offers practical strategies for leaders to shift their approach, acknowledging that great questions often don't yield immediate answers but trigger deeper thinking that leads to breakthrough insights.
The conversation reveals how questioning is actually hardwired into human development—babies learn to walk and talk by asking subconscious questions—yet this natural learning approach gets suppressed in traditional organizations. By reclaiming the power of questions, leaders create psychologically safe environments where innovation flourishes and everyone contributes their best thinking.
Whether you're a police executive, front-line supervisor, or aspiring leader in any field, this episode provides a masterclass in how to lead more effectively by embracing curiosity and inquiry. Learn how to ask better questions, create reflective practices, and build a culture where continuous improvement becomes the norm.

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Jonathan Ziders - Assistant Chief: Rising Through the Ranks Changes Everything You Thought You Knew Jun 17, 2025

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The CopDoc Podcast - Season 8 - Episode 154

Leadership doesn't happen in a vacuum – especially in policing, where decisions impact both officers and communities. In this revealing conversation, Assistant Chief Jonathan Ziders takes us on his remarkable journey from reluctant recruit to departmental leader.
"I never wanted to be a cop," Ziders candidly shares at the start of our discussion. His original dream of becoming a firefighter gave way to a policing career that has seen him rise through every rank in the Lancaster, NY Police Department, culminating in his recent appointment as the agency's first-ever Assistant Chief. This unique trajectory provides the backdrop for exploring how leadership perspectives transform with increased responsibility.
Communication emerges as perhaps the most critical skill for police leaders. Ziders reflects on his evolution from an introverted officer to a leader responsible for setting departmental tone. "I had to learn how to speak and communicate differently because I started to realize that how I thought I should be wasn't going to work," he explains. His emphasis on explaining "the why" behind directives resonates as a leadership principle applicable far beyond policing.
The conversation takes a fascinating turn when Ziders discusses his data-driven approach to mental health response. After analyzing call data, he discovered mental health incidents were dramatically underreported in their systems – not intentionally, but due to classification practices. This revelation led to exploring co-responder models that pair officers with mental health clinicians, representing the forward-thinking approaches Ziters brings to his department.
Throughout our discussion, Ziders repeatedly returns to the service core of policing, explaining how he reinforces this value with new officers: "When we're looking at hiring, those are the types of people that we want - the service-oriented individuals." His philosophy of leadership being about character – "who you are, not what you do" – offers wisdom for leaders in any field.
Join us for this candid look at police leadership and discover why explaining purpose, fostering communication, and maintaining authenticity might be the most valuable tools in any leader's arsenal.

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Chief John Fisher - The Art of Police Leadership: Coaching Through Crisis and Change Jun 03, 2025

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The CopDoc Podcast - Season 8 - Episode 153

What happens when a basketball coach becomes a police chief? Chief John Fisher of the Bedford, Massachusetts, Police Department brings a refreshingly human perspective to law enforcement leadership, replacing command-and-control with connection and coaching.
Fisher's journey from U.S. Coast Guard service through the ranks of Nashua, NH Police Department to his current role reveals a leadership style fundamentally shaped by his parallel career coaching high school basketball for over 30 seasons. "Coaching happens in split seconds," he explains, "but you still have to fall back on a coaching mentality. Same way we do in law enforcement."
At the heart of Fisher's approach is what he calls "the coaching sandwich" – opening with value recognition, suggesting improvement, and closing with encouragement. This technique acknowledges the reality that most police interactions involve people experiencing "their worst possible moment," requiring officers skilled in human connection more than tactical proficiency. When taking command of new departments, Fisher began by listening rather than dictating, meeting individually with officers to understand their perspectives before implementing change.
Fisher challenges traditional notions of police authority, recognizing that today's departments include officers spanning from their 20s to 60s, each generation requiring different leadership approaches. His philosophy emphasizes critical thinking through questions rather than commands, preparing teams for crisis through "what if" scenarios, and building community connections that transcend enforcement.
Whether you're in law enforcement, leadership, or simply interested in organizational culture, Fisher's insights offer valuable lessons on mentoring the next generation, navigating institutional change, and maintaining optimism while facing challenging realities. Ready to rethink what effective leadership looks like? Listen now and discover why Fisher believes "I am more optimistic now than I ever have been in my career."

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Jason Potts - Police Leadership Through Evidence and Change - LV Department of Public Safety May 27, 2025

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The CopDoc Podcast - Season 8 - Episode 151

In a great conversation on The CopDoc Podcast, Steve Morreale engages with Jason Potts, Director of the Department of Public Safety in Las Vegas, Nevada, exploring the intersection of modern police leadership and evidence-based approaches to public safety. Potts, who also serves as president of the American Society of Evidence-Based Policing, offers valuable insights that challenge traditional policing paradigms.
Potts' journey through law enforcement is as diverse as it is impressive. Beginning with the Coast Guard and Customs Border Patrol, he spent 22 years with the Vallejo Police Department in California before becoming the chief in Las Vegas, where he oversees a comprehensive public safety operation including deputy city marshals, detention facilities, and animal protection services. With approximately 420 employees and a $100 million budget, his department works alongside the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department to maintain safety in the city's parks, tourist corridors, and detention facilities.
What distinguishes Potts' leadership philosophy is his commitment to evidence-based policing, a concept he defines simply as "informing your decisions based on the best available data, science and research." This approach, which originated in evidence-based medicine, involves systematically evaluating policing strategies through data analysis and controlled studies. Potts describes how his perspective transformed after participating in the National Institute of Justice LEADS (Law Enforcement Advancing Data and Science) program in 2016, which changed his career trajectory and ultimately led to his leadership role in promoting evidence-based approaches nationally.
The conversation reveals Potts' practical application of these principles through randomized controlled trials he conducted, including studies on license plate readers and patrol visibility with lights on versus off. These small-scale experiments yielded actionable insights that improved operational effectiveness. Potts emphasizes that evidence-based policing doesn't replace officer instinct and craft but rather complements them with systematic analysis to determine what truly works.
Leadership dominates much of the discussion as Potts reflects on the challenges of entering a new organization and implementing change. He acknowledges making mistakes by "coming in hot and heavy" and learning to "inject change at rates people can absorb." His leadership philosophy centers on building relationships and trust, explaining that "trust is the currency of life" and "trust begets trust." He discusses the importance of setting clear expectations, providing tools and training, and ensuring consistency in discipline and accountability.
Potts emphasizes the critical nature of communication and "owning the message" rather than simply passing directives down the chain of command. He wants "owners, not renters" in his leadership team—people who fully embrace their responsibility for organizational culture and outcomes. This culture-building extends to his collaborative approach to strategic planning, where he involves officers at all levels through a Chief's Advisory Board to create a document they genuinely own and support.
The conversation concludes with practical advice for departments interested in implementing evidence-based approaches: start small, partner with local researchers, explain the "why" behind initiatives, and focus on building a supportive community of like-minded professionals. Potts' journey exemplifies how evidence-based policing can transform operations and leadership philosophy, creating a more effective, transparent, and responsive approach to public safety that benefits both officers and the communities they serve.

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Mike Abrashoff -Leadership Beyond Command: Transforming Teams Through Trust May 20, 2025

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The CopDoc Podcast - Season 8 - Episode 152

What happens when a Naval Captain witnesses his crew cheering as his predecessor leaves? For Mike Abershoff, it sparked a leadership revolution that transformed USS Benfold from one of the worst ships in the Pacific Fleet to the best in the entire US Navy – all in just 15 months.
"The days of top-down command and control, my way or the highway leadership style, are over," Abershoff explains in this riveting conversation. Drawing from his bestselling book "It's Your Ship" (which has sold over 1.5 million copies worldwide), he shares how replacing fear with respect created extraordinary results.
Abershoff's methods were unconventional but effective. He interviewed all 310 crew members individually, seeing his ship through their eyes. He published the budget openly, empowering sailors to make financial decisions. He replaced divisive "diversity training" with a unity program based on mutual respect. Most remarkably, he reduced disciplinary cases from 28 to 5 per year, discovering in the process that previous leadership had unconsciously targeted minority sailors.
The parallels to policing are striking and instructive. Both military and law enforcement organizations have traditionally valued hierarchy and directive leadership, yet both face increasingly complex challenges requiring adaptability and innovation. "Just because we grew up in a system where our chain of command were buttheads to us doesn't mean we need to continue it," Abershoff advises police leaders.
Throughout our conversation, Abershoff reveals himself as a leader still learning – willing to acknowledge self-doubt, emotional connections, and the importance of seeing leadership from different perspectives. His "monkey tree" analogy (what looks like smiling faces from the top looks very different from below) offers a powerful reminder about truly understanding those we lead.
Whether you're a veteran police leader, an aspiring supervisor, or simply interested in organizational transformation, Abershoff's insights will challenge conventional wisdom and inspire a more engaged, respectful approach to leadership. Listen now to discover how small, consistent improvements can revolutionize your team's performance and culture.

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Jim Bueermann: Rethinking Police Work in the Age of Artificial Intelligence Apr 08, 2025

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The CopDoc Podcast - Episode 150

Artificial intelligence isn't just coming to policing—it's already here, transforming everything from report writing to emergency response. In this forward-looking conversation, Jim Bierman, former Chief of Redlands, California and current president of the Future Policing Institute, delivers a wake-up call for law enforcement leaders about AI's revolutionary impact.
"AI is going to be the most disruptive technology human beings have ever invented—the most disruptive phenomena since humans figured out how to harness fire," Bierman warns. The pace of AI development far outstrips our legislative ability to regulate it or our practitioners' understanding of its capabilities. Yet most police departments lack basic policies or training for officers already using tools like ChatGPT.
Bierman speaks from extensive experience, having led innovation initiatives and later serving as president of the National Police Foundation (now National Policing Institute). He describes how AI applications are already transforming policing—from Everett, Washington's automated call-taking system to drones serving as first responders, providing crucial situational awareness before officers arrive.
The podcast explores how America's 18,000 different law enforcement agencies create a fragmented landscape where knowledge-sharing becomes critical. With ongoing staffing shortages and rising costs, departments must find innovative approaches to maintain service levels. AI offers solutions but requires thoughtful implementation guided by clear policies and training.
Perhaps most compelling is Bierman's challenge to police leaders: "The singular responsibility of police leaders today is to prepare their organizations for an increasingly uncertain future, long after they have left the agency." This requires dedicating time to strategic thinking despite the constant "spot fires" of daily crises.
For anyone in law enforcement leadership, this conversation provides both practical guidance and inspiration to embrace technological change while preserving policing's human dimension. Visit futurepolicinginstitute.org to access resources, including model AI policies, research summaries, and more.

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