The Convocation Unscripted

Money, Lies, and God Feb 21, 2025

The Convocation Team (minus Diana, who was traveling this week) opened the show by talking about the importance of Katherine Stewarts’s important new book, Money, Lies, and God: Inside the Movement to Destroy American Democracy, which was released this week. The hosts agreed that Money, Lies, and God is a must-read book to understand the coalescing of white Christian nationalism, the tech bro oligarchy, and authoritarianism that is actively wrecking the nation under Trump. We also discuss emerging alternative platforms of courageous journalism happening on platforms like Substack. And we note the hypocrisy of Trump’s executive order establishing an “Anti-Christian Task Force” at all federal agencies, which is simultaneously a vehicle for white evangelical Protestant Christian favoritism and a weapon against other Christians and religious groups Trump considers disloyal.

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Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

The Rise of Religious Resistance, MAGA DEI Hysteria, and Theological Anthropology Feb 14, 2025

In this episode, the Convocation Unscripted team highlights the religious resistance to the Trump administration’s abandonment of three decades of guidance that prohibited the government from conducting immigration enforcement raids in “sensitive locations,” including places of worship, schools, and hospitals. In response, a diverse group of 27 Christian and Jewish organizations filed a lawsuit against the Department of Homeland Security, claiming that such raids would violate their religious liberty and duty to welcome the stranger. We also talked about the role the law played in securing civil rights for African Americans when the executive and legislative branches failed to do so. Finally, we talked about the absurd turns the MAGA DEI hysteria has taken and the opportunity for Christians to develop a new theological anthropology consistent with a pluralistic democracy.

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Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

New PRRI Study on Christian Nationalism, Trump’s Redefinition of Religious Liberty, Signs of Resistance and Hope Feb 07, 2025

On our second live Convocation Unscripted show, we were glad to be joined by over 600 live participants. Robby kicked us off by highlighting the main findings of PRRI’s recent study of support for Christian nationalism in all 50 states, reminding us that while the 3 in 10 Americans who are Christian Nationalism Adherents or Sympathizers are enjoying a moment of extraordinary influence, they are actually outnumbered by a margin of 2 to 1 in the general population. They are neither the best of us nor the majority of us. Jemar reminded us, particularly those of us who are white Christians, that in addition to examples of courageous, justice-seeking leaders like Dietrich Bonhoeffer, we have an often overlooked resource closer to hand in the witness the Black church here in the US. Kristin and Diana talked about Trump’s jarring speech at the National Prayer Breakfast, where he announced the establishment of a task force on “anti-Christian bias,” making it clear that this administration’s commitments to religious liberty are narrowly focused on protecting the interests of conservative white Christians alone. Trump’s attacks on Lutheran and Catholic social service agencies are just the beginning. After discussing a dozen listener questions, we wrapped the episode by each sharing a passage about resistance and hope from our recent books.

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Trump’s Racist Politicization of a National Tragedy, and The Stirrings of a Faith Resistance Jan 31, 2025

In this week’s edition of The Convocation Unscripted, we take a moment to recognize and grieve with the families of the 67 people who lost their lives in the fatal collision between and American Airlines jet and a military helicopter. This tragedy was close to home to Diana and Robby, who fly out of DCA regularly and walk and bike the scenic trails near the airport along the Potomac River. We also reflect on President Trump’s awful attempt to use a national tragedy to further pull the country apart by blaming—without any evidence other than what he called his own “common sense”--Biden, Obama, Buttigieg, the military helicopter pilot, and of course DEI initiatives that he insisted favored lower intelligence hires. Noting that Trump similarly blamed the California wildfires on DEI firefighter hires, we emphasize the importance of recognizing that this will be the playbook: weaponize everything, even disasters and the deaths of scores of innocent Americans, to advance a white supremacist worldview that justifies the destruction of the government itself. But we also noted, with some cautious hope, that we are beginning to see the stirrings of a faith resistance: from Bishop Mariann Budde’s “sermon heard round the world,” to Quakers quietly suing the Trump administration over its mandate for ICE officials to round up immigrants while they are at church, to the Catholic Bishops finally speaking out when J.D. Vance questions the authenticity of their religious commitments to support immigrant families.

Mercy vs. Power, Empathy vs. Cruelty: What Does a Faithful Response to Trump’s Return to Power Look Like? Jan 24, 2025

This week’s edition of The Convocation Unscripted was our first show after the inauguration of Donald Trump as president. There was so much to talk about and so many incoming questions from the nearly 500 listeners who joined us live, that we extended the show a bit. We covered a lot of ground, opening with how we are all coping emotionally with the deluge of executive orders and authoritarian rhetoric. We also talked about the symbols and rhetoric of white Christian nationalism at the inauguration, Bishop Mariann Budde’s courageous sermon and appeal to mercy at the Washington National Cathedral, the blanket pardon of the violent January 6th insurrectionists, Elon Musk’s Nazi salute (yes, it was a Nazi salute), Trump’s torrent of big and little lies, and the need for all of us to contribute resources to organizations, clergy, and leaders who are taking courageous stands, not just at the national level but at the local level.

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The Truth Episode: Lies about Wildfires, the End of Fact Checking, and the Honesty of Jimmy Carter Jan 10, 2025

This is our first Convocation Unscripted+LIVE episode for 2025, which we’ll now be doing weekly during the first 100 days of Trump’s administration. We opened this episode by talking about the devastating wildfires in Southern California, which incoming President Trump is already politicizing with blatant lies about its causes. We talked about two events that each seem to mark the end of an era and are related to truth-telling. First, we discuss Mark Zuckerberg’s announcement this week that META is going MAGA, by appointing top officials from Trump’s orbit to its board and global policy positions, donating to Trump’s transition fund, and, most significantly, ending its fact-checking program on all platforms. We also reflect on President Jimmy Carter's funeral, which provided moving tributes to his life and legacy. And we recall that Carter’s principal campaign promise was, “I will never lie to you.” A new era indeed.

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Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

First PRRI Post-election Poll, Normalizing Telling the Truth, and Politics Comes Home for the Holidays Dec 20, 2024

In our last episode of The Convocation Unscripted for 2024, the Convocation Unscripted team give previews of their upcoming writing projects for 2025. Robby unpacks the findings from PRRI’s new post-election survey. The survey found that majorities of all white Christian groups voted for Donald Trump, as did Latino Protestants. Majorities of every other group—Christians of color, non-Christian religious groups, and religiously unaffiliated voters—voted for Kamala Harris. The survey also found that Democrats are five times more likely than Republicans to say they are altering upcoming holiday plans to spend less time with certain relatives in the wake of the election. Jemar and Kristin talked about the bizarre conception of manhood that seems operative among Trump’s inner circle. Jemar also emphasized a disturbing finding from the PRRI survey: that white evangelical churchgoers were more likely than infrequent attenders to support Trump. They are, Jemar noted, white vectors for, superspreaders of the MAGA movement and white Christian nationalism. Kristin talked about the importance of taking risks and normalizing the basic task of telling the truth in spaces that are denying it. Diana raised the dangers of Elon Musk’s influence over elected officials and the new threats of oligarchy and plutocracy we are facing with the staggering amount of wealth at the disposal of a few.

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Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

Trump Appointments and Advent Dec 06, 2024

The hosts of Convocation Unscripted kicked off the conversation by sharing their personal experiences of Thanksgiving. While each took some time away from the news to be with family, we talked about the importance of paying attention to Trump’s rolling administration appointee announcements, particularly while the Senate still has a role in confirming them. We discuss Trump appointees Russell Vought, Pete Hegseth, and Kash Patel, along with their deep ties to white Christian nationalism and Project 2025. The team wrapped the conversation by discussing the themes of justice and joy in the context of Advent, even amid this challenging time in our nation’s history.

The Faith & Democracy Tour, Stop #3 - The Convocation Unscripted Team Comes to Atlanta Nov 21, 2024

On November 17th, The Convocation Unscripted team rolled into Atlanta for our third Faith & Democracy Tour stop, after previous events at First Baptist Church in Greensboro, NC, and Dayspring United Methodist Church in Tempe, AZ. It was an energizing night with our gracious hosts at St. Luke’s Episcopal Church with great music, inspiring conversations, and a packed house of like-minded people who wanted to celebrate—and think seriously about what it is now going to take to protect and live out—an authentic Christian faith that supports a vision of a pluralistic democracy.

At this special two-hour event, we were also honored to be joined by an amazing set of musical artists. If you don’t know their music, you should:

Ruby Amanfu, 2x Song of the Year Grammy Nominee, Recording Artist, Songwriter & Producer;

Sam Ashworth, Grammy & Oscar-nominated singer-songwriter (H.E.R., Leslie Odom Jr.);

Taylor Leonhardt, Solo recording artist, member of Paper Horses;

Tommy Sims, Grammy Award-winning producer & singer-songwriter (Eric Clapton — “Change the World”).

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Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

Shock and Awe: One Week After the Election Nov 16, 2024

In the first week out from his surprising sweep of every swing state and electoral victory, Donald Trump has embarked on a “shock and awe” strategy of overwhelming the media with rapid-fire announcements of administration and cabinet nominations. By picking extreme, unqualified, and controversial nominees, and by preemptively asking the Senate to forego its Constitutional duty to provide "advice and consent,” Trump is setting up the first loyalty test for Republican senators. We talk about how this clown car of nominees expresses contempt for the basic idea of competency and the task of governance, but accomplishes one clear end: embedding sycophantic Trump loyalists who have no regard for the missions of the institutions with which they are entrusted across every branch of the federal government. In the wake of what’s coming, we’ll need to look for models of faithful resistance. While many white Christians have understandably recently been invoking the example of Dietrich Bonhoeffer, as Jemar reminds us, there is a Spirit of Justice that has animated the Black Christian tradition that is much closer to home.

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Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

Where do we go from here? Our First Convocation Unscripted+ LIVE Webinar Nov 08, 2024

Two days after the 2024 presidential election, which resulted in the return to power of Donald Trump, we held our first Convocation Unscripted+LIVE webinar. Jemar hosted this conversation with over 500 participants. We talked about our deep disappointment that a majority of American voters chose to return to power a twice-impeached convicted felon and adjudicated sexual abuser who incited a violent insurrection when he lost the last election. Robby went over the exit poll numbers that showed the steady support of white Christians for Trump: 8 in ten white evangelical Protestants, along with 6 in ten white Catholics and white non-evangelical Protestants. Diana talked about the importance of being prepared to protect what and who we can in the coming years. And Kristin emphasized the importance of grasping the new reality in which we will soon be living, emphasizing the mantra, “Do not obey in advance." And, most importantly, we took thoughtful questions from all the live participants on the webinar, ranging from coping to organizing.

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Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

Our Last Conversation Before the 2024 Election: Uncertainty, Courage, and Refusing to Obey in Advance Nov 01, 2024

It's our last episode of The Convocation Unscripted before the 2024 election. We open the session by taking stock of how we’re each doing since we returned from being on the road together for our first two Faith & Democracy Tour stops at First Baptist Church in Greensboro, NC, and Dayspring United Methodist Church in Tempe, AZ. Diana shared insights from a sermon she preached on uncertainty last week at the Duke University chapel. Robby unpacked some recent survey findings on authoritarianism and violence that are keeping him up at night. And Kristin talked about the importance of having courage and the rule of refusing to obey in advance, tapping lessons from Timothy Snyder’s book, On Tyranny. We also talked about the cowardice reflected in Jeff Bezos’s decision to stop the Washington Post from endorsing Kamala Harris, and the plans to traumatize civil servants that people like Russell Vought of Project 2025 are going to unleash within our government should Trump be elected.

Our Faith & Democracy Tour - The Convocation Unscripted Comes to Tempe, AZ Oct 22, 2024

After months of planning, The Convocation Unscripted Team has hit the road! On October 13, we rolled into First Baptist Church in Greensboro, NC. And last Sunday (10/20), we held our second Faith and Democracy Tour stop at Dayspring United Methodist Church in Tempe, AZ, an event that was also co-hosted by The Fountains United Methodist Church in Fountain Hills. It was an energizing night with great music, inspiring conversations, and a packed house of like-minded people who wanted to celebrate an authentic Christian faith that supports a vision of a pluralistic democracy. At this special two-hour event, we were also honored to be joined by an amazing set of musical artists:

Taylor Leonhardt, Solo recording artist, member of Paper Horses;

Fernando Ortega, Dove Award-winning singer-songwriter (“Give Me Jesus”); and

Tommy Sims, Grammy Award-winning producer & singer-songwriter (Eric Clapton — “Change the World”).

Stay tuned for additional Faith & Democracy Tour stops to be announced soon!

Vance, Walz, and the VP Debate; Project 2025 Revisited; and The Convocation Unscripted’s Road Show Oct 04, 2024

In this episode of The Convocation Unscripted, Kristin Du Mez sits in the host chair for a conversation with Diana Butler Bass, Jemar Tisby, and Robert P. Jones. We reflect on the recent vice presidential debate, possibly the last debate of the election season. Beyond the performances, we talk about what the debate revealed about the deeper stakes for democracy: outright lies in a post-truth political world, Vance’s refusal to say Trump lost the 2020 election and his admission that he would not have protected the Constitution the way Mike Pence did in 2021, and the dangers of a “normal” sounding debate in these abnormal times. We wrapped the session with a conversation about the connections between the white evangelical “theo bros” and Christian nationalist vision of Project 2025. The team also announced the first two stops on The Convocation Unscripted’s “Faith and Democracy Tour,” inviting listeners to join us in person at First Baptist Church in Greensboro, NC on October 13th at 6pm ET and Dayspring United Methodist Church in Tempe, AZ on October 20th at 5pm MST. Links to register for those events can be found on the Convocation Unscripted substack home page.

A Test of Faith, the Christian Kindness in Truth Telling, and a preview of “For Our Daughters" Sep 23, 2024

In this special episode of the Convocation Unscripted, we record a live in-person conversation from Washington, DC. The four of us came to town to participate in “A Test of Faith: A Summit to Defend Democracy,” which was organized by Rev. Jim Wallis, Director of the Center for Faith and Justice at Georgetown University. The summit included the unveiling of a new statement presenting a theologically centered Christian defense of Democracy and a rich set of panel discussions. Kristin Du Mez kicks off the conversation, describing her experience as one of the drafters of the statement. Jemar Tisby and Robby Jones talk about the problematic term “polarization,” which implies a “both-sidesism” that distorts the moral nature of the choices we are facing in our contemporary politics. As Jemar often notes, “Justice takes sides.” Diana Butler Bass talks about the politeness and niceness pervading particularly white mainline Protestant churches that prevents Christians from calling out injustice and argues that confrontation, done rightly, can be an act of deep Christian kindness. Finally, Kristin Du Mez rounds out the conversation by giving us a preview of her new documentary short film, “For Our Daughters,” which discusses the sexual abuse scandal in white evangelical denominations. This special in-person episode covers a lot of other ground as well, including anti-semitic statements Trump made at a conference to fight anti-semitism and the disturbing racist and misogynistic comments made by Lt. Gov. Mark Robinson that were recently uncovered by CNN. The Convocation Unscripted team would like to say a heartfelt "thank you" to Jesse Dollemore and Brittany Page of the “I Doubt It” podcast for the generous use of their studio and for editing assistance for this episode. - The Convocation Unscripted [S1E10]

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Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

The Spirit of Justice, Trump and Abortion, and Church Growth Sep 06, 2024

Diana Butler Bass hosts this “grab bag” episode with Jemar Tisby, Robert P. Jones, and Kristin Du Mez. Jemar talks about his new book, "The Spirit of Justice: True Stories of Faith, Race, and Resistance,” which was just published this week. And Robby gives a preview of his analysis of Christian nationalism in the new Afterword in the paperback edition of "The Hidden Roots of White Supremacy and the Path to a Shared American Future,” which will be published next week. We also talk about Trump’s awkward flip-flops on abortion--which are anything but “pro-life”--but which seem not to matter at all to his white Christian Right base. In the second half of the show, we tackle the disintegration of the “church growth” industry in the wake of the rapid decline of white evangelicals over the past two decades, delve into a 2016 interview J.D. Vance gave about his conversion from evangelicalism to high-brow Catholicism, and flag the growing evidence of Russian money stoking some of the loudest online voices on the right.

Godless Liberals? Faith at the Democratic National Convention Aug 23, 2024

Christian Right leaders still regularly accuse Democrats of being godless liberals, or some similar phrase. Trump has claimed that no true Christian should be able to vote for a Democrat. But as Kristin Du Mez, who was on the ground at the Democratic National Convention, reports, Christianity and other religions are alive and well among not only the rank and file but the high profile speakers in Chicago this week. Similarly, Jemar Tisby talks about his experience as part of the “Evangelicals for Harris” group, which has been the target of attacks by the Christian Right merely because of its existence. Robert P. Jones also brought in the numbers, emphasizing—despite the Republican stereotypes--that 70% of Democrats identify with some religious tradition. As Jones notes, when Republican activists say the Democratic Party is devoid of Christians, what they really mean is that they are lacking white evangelical Protestant Christians (who only make up 4% of Democrats vs. 30% of Republicans). Jemar, Kristin, and Robby rounded out the show by talking about the different way religion functioned at the Republican vs. Democratic national conventions—weaponized at the former to draw us/them boundaries versus an inclusive image at the latter, emphasizing America as a place where all belong.

The Convocation Unscripted [S1E8]

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Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

The Significance of Tim Walz's Midwestern Lutheran Dad Vibe Aug 09, 2024

What is the significance of Tim Walz's Midwestern Lutheran Dad Vibe for the 2024 presidential election? In this episode, we talk about what it means to be Lutheran and how Walz upends the old culture war trope of "God, gays, and guns" (he's authentically religious, has long supported LGBTQ+ rights, and both served in the military and is an avid hunter). Together with Kamala Harris's mixed-race identity, interfaith marriage, and blended family, the Harris-Walz ticket promises to redraw the traditional cultural and political fault lines (exhibit 1: A Harris-Walz version of his trademark camo hat has already sold over 25,000 units). Perhaps more importantly, compared to the gilded and testosterone infused Trump-Vance ticket, the democratic duos' identities more closely reflects the beautiful messiness of most everyday Americans' lives.

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Jemar Tisby - JemarTisby.Substack.com

The Convocation Unscripted [S1E7]

The Republican Carnival and the Harris Launch Jul 25, 2024

The last two weeks have been head spinning: the attempted assassination of Donald Trump, the Republican National Convention, and Joe Biden passing the torch to Kamala Harris. We opened the conversation today by holding space for Sonya Massey, the African American woman who called the police for help but was senselessly and callously killed by a white officer in her own home in Springfield, Illinois. We also talked about the vibe at the Republican National Convention, and how its carnivalesque atmosphere (e.g., ex-professional wrestler Hulk Hogan introducing Donald Trump), with its mix of spectacle and transgression, undermined the norms and civic virtues that are important to a healthy democracy. Finally, we talked about the example of selflessness and patriotism Joe Biden exhibited in stepping down to allow Harris to rise.

The Convocation Unscripted [S1E6]

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Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

Project 2025 and "Government Schools" Jul 11, 2024

The State Superintendent of Oklahoma announced a plan to overhaul the social studies curriculum in the state. He named some members of the Executive Review Committee which included: David Barton, Dennis Prager, Kevin Roberts (president of the Heritage Foundation), and Steve Deace. These men are not committed to historical truth-telling as much as propagandists pushing the idea of a “Christian America.”

We also discuss Project 2025. It’s finally hitting the mainstream, even though we and others have been warning about it for far longer. What is it, and why does it pose a threat long before and after the November 2024 election?

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Jemar Tisby- JemarTisby.Substack.com

The Convocation Unscripted [S1E5]

The Last Presidential Debate in America Jun 27, 2024

Late on the evening of June 27, 2024, we came together to discuss the first 2024 presidential debate between Joe Biden and Donald Trump. In this episode, Jemar Tisby, Kristin Du Mez, and Robert P. Jones talk about this train wreck of a debate (Diana Butler Bass is on vacation). While Biden clearly lost the debate, the real loser was democracy and the America people as Trump filled the airwaves with unchecked lies and hateful rhetoric dehumanizing immigrants. We may have just witnessed the last presidential debate in modern American politics.

The Convocation Unscripted [S1E4]

When Your Religion Cancels You Jun 13, 2024

Many of us grew up singing the old time hymn "May the Circle Be Unbroken," a song about connection and continuity. But today many denominations seem to be preoccupied with shrinking the circle. In these increasingly narrow places, curiosity is extinguished, complexity is anathema, and dissent from orthodoxy is suppressed.

This week at ‪@The_Convocation‬ Unscripted, Diana Butler Bass co-hosts a conversation with Jemar Tisby, Robert P. Jones, and Kristin Du Mez about the bewildering and painful experience so many have had when a congregation or denomination declares there is no longer any place for them because of their beliefs or identity—or even their questions. We talk about our own reasons for staying, the challenging but rewarding journey through the wilderness after leaving, and the possibilities of finding another spiritual home.

The Convocation Unscripted [S1E3]

Trump is a Convicted Felon. Now What? May 31, 2024

One hundred and thirty thousand dollars. Two days of deliberation. Thirty-four utterances of “Guilty!” Backed unanimously by twelve ordinary citizens sitting on the jury. May 30, 2024, will forever be a day that marked a new era in American history, when Donald J. Trump became the first former president to receive a felony conviction.

But what does it all mean:

*For our country as a whole?

*For the political party who is poised to coronate Trump as their candidate just four days after his sentencing?

*And for Trump’s white Christian supporters who in the not so distant past crowed about their integrity as “values voters”?

Join us for a special edition of our new podcast “The Convocation Unscripted,” where Jemar Tisby, Kristin Du Mez, Robert P. Jones, and Diana Butler Bass talk about this historic moment and its implications for the presidential election and the future.

The Convocation Unscripted [S1E2]

Welcome to The Convocation Unscripted May 30, 2024

Scholars and writers Diana Butler Bass, Kristin Du Mez, Robert P. Jones, and Jemar Tisby talk about the launch of The Convocation, a weekly collaborative Substack newsletter and video podcast.

Original Recording May 30,2024 - The Convocation Unscripted [S1E1] - Opening Show (youtube.com)

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