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    Arts

    The Common Reader

    Literary discussion

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    Copyright: © Henry Oliver

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    Latest Episodes:
    Naomi Kanakia: How Great are the Great Books? Oct 27, 2024
    Show notes

    It was a delight to talk to Naomi Kanakia who writes the Woman of Letters Substack. We talked about the homogeneity of modern fiction, whether the Great Books are really great (and which ones she found boring), as well as economics and fiction. I enjoy Naomi’s literary criticism on Substack very much and I am anticipating her new book about the Great Books.


    This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.commonreader.co.uk

    Catherine Lacey: internet geography Oct 13, 2024
    Show notes

    I was delighted to talk to the novelist Catherine Lacey, whose book Biography of X I admired very much indeed. We talked about personal websites, how she learned to code in HTML, 9 Beet Stretch, her writing on Substack (Untitled Thought Project), biography as a genre, modern novels, figurative art, Derek Parfit, MFAs, fiction and non-fiction, short stories, Merve Emre, W.S. Merwin, television, and plenty more.


    This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.commonreader.co.uk

    Nabeel Qureshi: literature requires the fuller engagement of your soul. Sep 17, 2024
    Show notes

    There’s a profile about me and Second Act in the New Zealand Listener. It’s very good so if you’re in NZ and have a subscription (it’s paywalled) do take a look. I chuckled at this line: “Speaking by Zoom from London, Oliver is a serious fellow, and has the manner of someone older.” This was nice too: “He also has a strong sense of his own mortality. For someone still in their 30s, this seems surprising until he talks about his penchant for poetry… Our interview is peppered with quotes from poems.” My thanks to Sarah Catherallfor a lovely write up!

    When I asked to interview Nabeel, he asked to interview me. How could I refuse? Nabeel is a well-read literary enthusiast so of course we had a good time covering many topics such as favourite books, autofiction, Harold Bloom, modernism, subjectivity culture post-1945, Anthony Powell, The Englishness of Robert Frost, modern novels, George Eliot, viewquakes, novels about older people, and being self-authorised. And then I turned it round and ask Nabeel questions about tech reading lists, entertainment and learning, the utilitarian value of Shakespeare, and whether AI will be good for literature. He’s a visiting fellow in AI at the Mercatus Centre, with a background in tech companies, so his answers are well-considered and interesting. And I got a book recommendation!


    This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.commonreader.co.uk

    Hollis Robbins: literature makes you a mind reader Aug 27, 2024
    Show notes

    I always enjoy corresponding with Hollis Robbins (@Anecdotal) and was therefore delighted to talk to her about poetry and literature. It’s a wonderful conversation that ranges across so many books and ideas. We covered why there is no crisis in the humanities, why you should read Walter Scott, our favourite modern poets (Hollis: Terrance Hayes; Henry: Sally Read—I like her book Day Hospital very much), Regency video games, the role of AI in teaching, AI and poetry, how Hollis would change the way literature is taught, memorising poetry, Shakespeare, why the 1850s was such a remarkable literary decade, and so so much more! Her peroration at the end about literature and education is especially exciting.

    The two Utah poets Hollis mentions are Jacqueline Osherow and Craig Dworkin. Osherow had a sonnet in the New Yorkerrecently.Hollis is here on Substack where she has been writing interestingly about academia and Bridgerton, and why English majors should become plumbers. She has a deep knowledge of poetry and I hope she’ll be writing about that too.


    This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.commonreader.co.uk

    James Marriott. The value of being pretentious and the importance of the emotions to the intellect. Aug 08, 2024
    Show notes

    What a delight to talk to James Marriott, the Times columnist who writes about literature, culture, and being a millennial. James is very well-read and we covered the ground from Iris Murdoch to Harry Potter, from why men should read novels to whether the crisis of modernity is actually modern. You can read James’s columns at the Times or see his Twitter feed here. I found James’ comments on the important of being pretentious interesting and they reminded me of what the philosopher Agnes Callard has written about aspiration, which I discussed in Second Act.


    This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.commonreader.co.uk

    A.N. Wilson. Walking in mysteries. Jul 28, 2024
    Show notes

    NB The first two or three minutes have some audio glitches but the rest of the recording is much better quality.

    I was delighted to talk to A.N. Wilson, novelist, journalist, biographer, and historian, whose books on Iris Murdoch, Dante, and Prince Albert I very much admire, as well as his memoir Confessions. Wilson’s new book Goethe. His Faustian Life comes out in September (December in the USA) and is a splendid account of Goethe’s lifelong work on Faust. In this interview we talk about Goethe’s work as a scientist, his influence on psychotherapy, and his extraordinary drinking, as well as covering a range of literary topics from Professor Helen Gardner to Elizabeth Jenkins and Charles Dickens. (We agree: Dickens is the best. I’ve written about: David Copperfield, Barnaby Rudge, Martin Chuzzlewit, and Bleak House.)

    You can (and should) subscribe to Andrew’s excellent Substack here.


    This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.commonreader.co.uk

    Tyler Cowen: reading John Stuart Mill Dec 11, 2023
    Show notes

    In Tyler Cowen’s new book there is a whole chapter about John Stuart Mill, and I think Tyler really gets Mill, and draws on many of the key sources, both primary and secondary. So I’m pleased to offer you this conversation about Mill and biography, economics ideas where Mill remains relevant, how to read Mill properly, why Mill isn’t so influential today, whether Mill was a coherent thinker, the gap in the intellectual heritage of Effective Altruism, when the different arts peaked, why you should read Mill’s Bentham and Coleridge, and more. Several of you how got in touch to tell me that you read Mill’s Autobiography and hopefully this conversation will encourage you to explore further.


    This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.commonreader.co.uk

    Zadie Smith and the revenge of beauty Sep 08, 2023
    Show notes

    This is the second part of an essay about Zadie Smith. You can read the first part here. As an experiment, I have recorded this essay so you can listen rather than read. Let know what you think…

    Both essays are partly paywalled. But, good news, there’s a summer sale—20% off a subscription if you sign up before September 13th.

    Don’t forget, the next bookclub is this Sunday 10th September, 19.00 UK time. We are discussingThe Annotated Alice.

    My next salon, in October, is about sonnets.

    Zadie time

    The only poem Zadie Smith knows by heart, apart from some Shakespeare, is ‘Animals’ by Frank O’Hara. (“In the brain space where memorised poems should be,” she once said, “I have a large collection of rap couplets.”) ‘Animals’ is about looking back from middle-age to youth. “It’s no use worrying about Time,” O’Hara writes, straight after remembering a time when “the day came fat with an apple in its mouth.”

    The obvious image that brings up is a pig, ready for feasting—a symbol of fleeting youth, inevitable death, and all that jazz. One day you’re a pig in the field, the next you’re roasted It might be no use worrying about time, but that’s because it’s inevitable.

    ‘Animals’ is about looking back to a time when “the whole pasture looked like our meal”. Not youth itself, but the changed perspective that comes with middle-age. This sense of time changing our perspective of the world might be the central theme of Smith’s work. Talking about how she gets started on a book, she said:

    the writing process... for me, is usually “I started at page one and kept going” or “I was struck by some tedious trauma from my childhood and had to make it into a novel to be free of it.”

    Struck by some tedious trauma is a nice Larkinian phrase and it sums up the way that Smith makes her bigger arguments—about the importance of equal access to beauty, or the loss of the post-war social order—through stories of ordinary life and her changed perception of the past. So many of her novels are driven by one generation not knowing how the other understands the world. As she told BU Today:

    It’s so hard to understand when you’re 19 or 20 why middle-aged people are like they are or why marriages continue. You don’t understand any of it, you just wonder, what’s wrong with you people? And then, of course, you become middle-aged and go, ah, OK, I get it now.

    Smith has talked about the importance of time in historical perspective, too. The essence of Swing Time is the interruption of history, the forced changing of a people’s times.

    …what was done to black people, historically, was to take them out of the time of their life… who knows what would have happened — nobody knows. But it would’ve gone a certain way, and we were removed from that timeline, placed somewhere entirely different, and radically disrupted.

    That sense of being dislocated in time is, of course, the basis of Howards End, which opens with an engagement between two people from different social classes. A tremendous fuss is caused—but by the time Helen arrives to sort it all out, the engagement is over. The characters are removed from one timeline and put into another one. It was a minor affair, barely that, but it changes the course of all their lives. You might call it some tedious trauma.

    Howards End was the model and inspiration for On Beauty. (See part one for more details.) Both are novels about the contrast of aesthetics and pragmatism. But On Beauty is essentially about arguments of literary criticism and aesthetic philosophy.

    Forster might be the least intellectual of the Bloomsbury writers. Why take him as a model? To understand that, we first need to go back to Smith’s other source—Elaine Scarry’s 1999 lectures On Beauty and Being Just

    On Beauty and Being Just.

    On Beauty contrasts the unaesthetic ideas of Catherine Belsey (the critic who believed Shakespeare’s plays are not works of art but “a location of cultural history”—curses upon her) with the revival of beauty espoused by Elaine Scarry. Howard represents Belsey (which is why he shares her surname) and through his own misdeeds and midlife crisis—and a good dose of comeuppance—comes to realise the truth of beauty. As Adam Kirsch says, in a perceptive essay, “Howard’s downfall… is the revenge of beauty.”

    Scarry’s lectures are full of common sense, occasionally couched in the cant jargon of modern literary criticism. Here for example is the opening paragraph, which finally comes alive in the final sentence.

    What is the felt experience of cognition at the moment one stands in the presence of a beautiful boy or flower or bird? It seems to invite, even to require, the art of replication. Wittgenstein says that when the eye sees something beautiful, the hand wants to draw it.

    Scarry talks about the way we make errors about beauty—we can see beauty in new places where we don’t expect to find it. We also know that beauty fades. Beauty makes us accept transience.

    The first idea is used in Howard’s work as an art historian—like Catherine Belsey, he denies that art can be beautiful, but then he is moved to tears by Mozart. And the delusion of infinite beauty is what drives him to commit adultery with two women who both look somewhat how his wife used to look. He finds beauty in an unexpected place and is confronted with transience. To make sure you don’t miss this point, the Mozart is played at a funeral.

    Smith makes nice irony out of Howard’s problems. In the classroom he makes Scarry’s first mistake: he cannot see the beauty in Rembrandt. Out of class, this leads to the second mistake: he hasn’t remembered that because beauty is real, beauty fades. Howard tries to swing through time, back to youth, to a place where beauty was felt, not a mode of discourse or a method of radical decentering or any of the other theoretical phrases he might use.

    Howard cannot start to see life clearly while he is clouded with the ideas of his theories. He had become dogmatic and middle-aged. Beauty shakes him out of his dogmatic slumbers.

    “greatness appears suddenly; like a thunderbolt it carries all before it”

    You might wonder if Scarry’s book amounts to a sort-of admission that Harold Bloom was partially right, that literary criticism ought to owe as much to Longinius as it does to Aristotle. Aristotle gives us genre, structure, character, mimesis, and so on. Longinius gives us the sublime. Aristotle analyses literature: Longinius feels it.

    Great writing does not persuade; it takes the reader out of himself. The startling and amazing is more powerful than the charming and persuasive, ... [and] greatness appears suddenly; like a thunderbolt it carries all before it and reveals the writer’s full power in a flash.

    That was what happened to Howard with the Mozart. It’s what Scarry means about beauty surprising us into aspiring to the truth. Without the thunderbolt, art cannot function. The thunderbolt flashes and shows us the world—there are eternal truths, beauty is real.

    And of course, when the thunderbolt hits, you are taken out of your time. Great literature—great beauty—can make us see our lives again in different terms, as Howard and Kiki do at the end.

    The brilliant and the banal

    What, then, does this have to do with Forster? The fact that Forster’s novel relates to Smith’s notions of time doesn’t quite explain why Smith used it as her model. He’s hardly an intellectual novelist. For all his talk of Schlegel, and his descriptions of Beethoven, he wasn’t using his fiction to resolve academic disputes about aesthetics.

    The answer, I think, is Zora Neale Hurston. Smith was given Hurston to read aged fourteen, by her mother. First, she resisted. But something about Hurston’s writing compelled her to think differently. A thunderbolt struck.

    My resistance to dialogue (encouraged by Nabakov, whom I idolised) struggled and then tumbled before Hurston’s ear for black colloquial speech…

    Smith wanted to “an objective aesthete, not a sentimental fool”. Hurston showed her you could be both. You can balance objective, high-minded aestheticism and sentimentality. That’s what Howards End is about. In Smith’s words, “to love Forster is to reconcile oneself to the admixture of banality and brilliance that was his.”

    The serious sentimental

    Writing about Middlemarch, Smith says we change our view of the characters as we age because “it is about the effects of experience that changes with experience.” Fourteen year olds cannot understand Rosamund and Lydgate’s marriage, she says, in the way that they can understand Jane Eyre. Ageing shows us too that Dorothea’s angst is far more serious than Fred’s problems. “With time, we’re less tempted to find serious only those matters clothed in Seriousness.” The young George Eliot was a puritan who went on that journey herself.

    And that’s the theme of On Beauty. As we age, we are taken out of our time. Not with the violence that was committed to Africans. But still with a sense of disruption. Things that once made little sense, now do. And vice versa. Smith as a young novelist was writing in the shadow of Gravity’s Rainbow, full of something like the young George Eliot’s puritanism. With time, she was less tempted to find serious only those matters clothed in Seriousness.

    Howard learns this, too. He learns not just that beauty exists, but that ideas about beauty are an admixture of banality and brilliance. This is the thunderbolt of art taking its revenge.

    Without Forster as her model, On Beauty would have been like her first two books. Over-active piles of intellectual clutter. For all his banality, Forster gave Smith elegance, the sort of prose that makes you pause. It is thanks to Forster’s example, more than Scarry’s theory, that in On Beauty Smith stopped thinking like a critic, a theorist, a post-modernist, and wrote an aesthetic novel. As it did with Howard, Smith let beauty take its revenge on her.

    Beauty shocks us into realising how our perspective has changed. The flash of great art illuminates things you understand now that you didn’t before.

    The lesson of On Beauty is that the sentimental can be serious.


    This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.commonreader.co.uk

    Noah Smith interview Sep 05, 2022
    Show notes

    Writing ElsewhereRecently I have written for The Critic about how to find somewhere to live in London, solving the problem of modern architecture, and in praise of stupid politicians. I also produced some epigrams framed as advice for young people.Noah Smith is an economics blogger with his own Substack (highly recommended). We talked about late bloomers, motivation, modelling effects, peer effects, culture, and Anime. I’ll leave you to decide what you believe about the disagreement half way through about whether we are morally obliged to work hard and use our abilities. Henry Oliver: Well, thanks for joining me. I appreciate your time and your willingness.Noah Smith: Absolutely.Henry Oliver: What I am interested in, I'm writing about late bloomers, so I'm interested in ideas to do with, your intelligence is flexible, it's not determined at birth, and you have lots of margin to improve yourself. And I saw your tweet, is he called June? Is it Huh, June Huh, the mathematician?Noah Smith: I don't know. I don't know who that is.Henry Oliver: Yeah, he won the Fields Medal, he dropped out of high school.Noah Smith: Oh, right. That's right, that guy.Henry Oliver: He wanted to be a poet and he didn't like maths. And then it was like six years into college, he went to a maths class and he got into it and then he got really obsessed with it and he dropped poetry and he got really... He only ate pizzas, 'cause he was just sitting there doing maths all the time. And then he wins the Fields Medal, so he's like a total late starter, and it defies all the stereotypes that you have to be good at maths when you're young. And he's everything that you're not supposed to be.Noah Smith: Right. Right.Henry Oliver: So what I'm interested in is your views on this whole area. Sorry.Noah Smith: Well, it's hard to say. You can definitely pick out lots of anecdotes like this, of people who come late to a subject and then just go really far in it. And then you're gonna get this infinite debate between people who say, "Well, he always had the talent, he just didn't wanna do it before." And people who say, "Well, you really... You can do anything you set your mind to." And blah, blah, blah. And there's no way you can really prove that. But I think that the better... It's cool to have a guy who dropped out of school to be a poet and then eventually became a Fields Medalist. That's eye-catching and neat, but I think the better examples are the more prosaic examples of people who are just middling students who go on to be math professors. And so for example, I had two classmates.When I was in school, we knew who the very best math people were. I was one of them. And but there were a handful. There were three or four kids each year who were the best people at math and who would go to the top schools and do technical subjects and blah, blah, blah. And one of those did become a math professor, but I think most of them just went to... Eventually became software engineers at Google or whatever, or just blew up their life and became an economics pundit like me. So almost none of them actually went into the field. And then when I look at the couple of people I know from my high school who became math professors, they were both fairly middling in math in high school. They didn't win the competitions. They weren't on the math team.Actually, so when I was in high school, what I liked was not math but physics. That's what I really liked. But I wasn't that interested in math because I felt like it wasn't real, physics felt more real to me. But then when I got to college, I started to really love math proofs, and so I started to like math a lot more in college. The people who ended up becoming math professors, they were on that sort of journey magnified several fold. And so now, they're teaching at some, at a college. And so I guess the point is that...Henry Oliver: What happens to them?Noah Smith: They get interested. Motivation is everything. When we talk about late bloomers, we have to talk about motivation, because kids aren't born motivated. And when kids are young, their parents provide them with motivation. Their parents hug them and tell them they're great, and then insist that in order to keep getting that approval, they've got to ace a bunch of math tests. Or some parents take a more harsh approach where they say, "If you don't ace your math test, I'll beat you with this belt."[laughter]But I think that's kind of going out, that approach, which is definitely what my grandmother had to deal with, with her immigrant parents immigrating from what's now Ukraine. If she didn't get perfect scores on math, they would hit her with a belt.And that is just... That seems very harsh. It is very harsh. It's a world... [laughter] That's the world of the depression and the World Wars, and that old world that was very harsh, and you still get a few immigrant parents who try to take that extremely harsh attack. But I think that in America, we're moving away from that toward something that can be just as emotionally damaging, which is, "You had better get 100 on this math test or I won't love you." And that's the alternative way. But then when people are young, they get all this motivation from their parents, and the people that we call nerds are really just people who are closer to their parents. People who are less close to their parents, we don't call nerds. And no matter how much they are talented at math or good at math...One of my best friends was incredibly smart as a kid. He could ace the SAT as a little kid or whatever and could do a bunch of math stuff. He didn't care at all. He just wanted to play rock music, play rock guitar, and... I don't know, play Dungeons & Dragons, and hook up with girls, and get in fights. And he was very good at all of those things.[laughter]And now he's a physicist in Europe. His parents are both math professors. If there's any natural talent to be had, he obviously had it. And then he just... When he was ready, he just effortlessly went and became a physicist. And so you could argue that there's both talent and motivation here, but the motivation component was key. He had to feel like he no longer felt like... He would go and get in bare-knuckled boxing competitions in Germany or something, which he won. [chuckle] And then... Or just do the craziest combinations of drugs you'd ever not wanna do. And he just did that kind of stuff, and then when he felt like, "Oh, I guess it's time for me to get a job," he just went and did physics. And then he got interested in it, and he got really interested in the physics that he was doing. And it became this... Just like when he was a kid, he used to pour over Dungeons & Dragons manuals, crafting the perfect adventure, he would now just pour over physics, like experiments, and he worked at CERN, and etcetera.And so that's an interesting journey right there. Because motivation changes over life, he was not a nerd as a kid, but he got motivated later in life. And I think that with a lot of nerds, with a lot of the kids that you see who are very close to their parents, and who are motivated by parental involvement, you see burnout, because then those kids are like, "Yeah, I do what my parents want." Blah, blah, blah. And then they get to age 17, 18, and they're like, "Wait a second, why am I not getting laid? Why am I not partying with the other party kids?" And then when they get to college, when they get out of their... Out from under their mother's wing, out to the world where you live in a dorm and you're around all the other young people and no one's really supervising you. I seen... I went to a fancy school and saw this happen again and again and again and again. And so these people just... These people lose motivation and they run off the rails. And they say, "Why did I not get to party?" And often, they regain motivation later in life. The most common pattern is that they party, they figure out how to hook up with people, they find romance, they get married. And then they get their motivation back to be really serious, and then they...So I have a friend who's a mathematician who when he was in college, he was just very down because he had always been so motivated by his parents, and now he was away from them. And now he was like, "Why do I not have a social life?" And we were his friends and always trying to promote him to get a social life. And then he started working out, dating girls, whatever. I went to his wedding, his wedding was a math wedding where a bunch of math people came and made really elaborate esoteric math puns on PowerPoint at his wedding. [laughter] And it was a great wedding.Henry Oliver: That's a good wedding. Yeah.Noah Smith: It was a really good wedding, it was great. And then we all played board games and stuff like that. Now he’s a mathematician, but anyway, but the point is that he went through that period where he lost motivation, and some people never get it back. Some people really... And so I think motivation is the key, life motivation. Yeah.Henry Oliver: Right. And then some people talk about... Some people are very fixated on the prefrontal cortex doesn't mature until you're 25, and so you don't get executive making decision abilities. And that's why people in their 20s run around and they don't work hard, and then in your mid-20s, you kind of get your life together. But that seems like a very pat... It's like a Just So story like, “Don't worry when you're 25, it'll just happen and you'll just wake up and your prefrontal cortex will have turned on.” That's a very inadequate explanation. What is motivation? Where can we get it? How can we explain this to people?Noah Smith: I can tell you what I think, and I can pull in various psychology papers to support this thesis. But I can tell you my thesis, that it's all about human approval, it’s all about... Motivation is social, there is some intrinsic motivation that you get from nothing, just from curiosity. And we over emphasize this. It's fun to tinker with stuff, and it's fun to play with stuff. There’s certainly, like mathematicians out there like Terence Tao, who just from a very early age, were just intrinsically motivated by the fun of tinkering with stuff and have never stopped. That's real, that's a thing that exists. But I think that for most people in most cases, motivation is social. It has to do with the people around you saying attaboy, attagirl, atta non-binary person, [laughter] and patting you on the back and saying... What do you say for atta with a non-binary person? I don't know that. But anyway, so then the point is that people give you congratulations and approval and they say, “You done did good kid.” [chuckle] And that’s really what it is, it’s... I don’t know what the British idioms are here. What do you tell someone you did something good?Henry Oliver: We would just say, “Well done.”Noah Smith: Oh, got that.Henry Oliver: You don’t wanna over do it. You say, “Well done.” That's pretty big, right?Noah Smith: Yes, well done. Henry Oliver: If they speak, that's approval. Speaking is approval.[laughter]Noah Smith: Got it, got it. [laughter] That reminds me of a guy, the software engineer in Japan, who was very briefly my roommate for two months. And then we took him to a tattoo piercing bar, which freaked him out so much that he moved out of our apartment. [laughter] He was very... [laughter] Alright, but that's where motivation is, it's social and parental motivation is important, but it doesn't last forever.Henry Oliver: So you’re saying it’s like status seeking, you want to be seen in a positive way by your peers, you want to have the status of someone who’s done whatever these things are, and if we took that away, you would lose interest in the thing itself, the substance.Noah Smith: Well, maybe... So I would be a little more subtle than that. So status, I think, which we pronounce with a short A, sorry. But yeah, status is like...Henry Oliver: No, it’s good. It’s good.Noah Smith: It’s a public thing, it’s a public facing thing, like you get the top score in the competition, so your name is up on a board, or you get a medal or something. It’s something that everyone... It’s something of common knowledge that everyone can see, that everyone else can see, but approval is more general. So that is one sort of approval, yes. But approval can also just be your friend saying, I think you did a good job, and then no one sees. And that's not status, you don’t actually get status for having one friend who likes you, and yet that one friend who likes you can often be more important approval. And I think that the most important form of approval for most people is romantic, it’s your romantic partner is who gives you the most important approval in your life. That’s the person whose approval you seek the most, in fact, achieving romance itself is a form of approval for people, like, “I was good enough that this person liked me and wanted to exclusively dedicate there, whatever to me.” Blah, blah, blah. And so I think that in itself is a powerful form of approval for people who want to... I don't wanna be crude here, but for people who wanna go around and get laid. The getting of laid, it is approval from someone. It’s not status necessarily. You can go brag about how much you get laid, but people just don’t like you when you do that. Unless they’re on a sports team or something. But generally, people don’t like that, but you get the approval privately from someone… you know you are attractive. You know you could attract people. And to be honest, I think that’s a bigger motivation for a lot of people than the actual enjoyment of sex, is just the knowledge that you're attractive, the... I’m asexual, so I can observe this from an outside vantage point. Yeah, so people get that approval and then romance is that magnifier, because someone approves of you not just to spend a night with you, but to actually dedicate their life to you, or at least some large portion of their life. And so that's an important part of approval. So romance, friends, parents, community. The community approval is status, but it’s only one type.Henry Oliver: How far can we take this?Noah Smith: Colleagues….Henry Oliver: But in some ways, this sounds a bit like you’re saying people do difficult work for the same reason that the peacock grows a heavy tail, because people will look at that work and go, “I like you. That’s a nice tail. Maybe I'll sleep with you.”Noah Smith: [laughter] Well, I don't know about that. I don’t think people would...Henry Oliver: Have like...Noah Smith: I don't know about that. But some people are doing that.Henry Oliver: There must be more to it. There must be more to it than, “I want people to like me, so I will study Physics.” Studying Physics is hard. There are other ways to get people to say, “Dude, good job.”Noah Smith: Well, okay, studying Physics isn't always hard.Henry Oliver: No, but you see my point, like you could...Noah Smith: It was a lot easier for me than Computer Science. And then I can’t...Henry Oliver: But you could paint the fence and someone would say, “That was really good. Well done.” You don't have to get a... You don’t have... People do some impressive things, especially late bloomers. Late bloomers often, it’s like, “I haven't done this thing with my life, I'm gonna bloody well go and do it.”Noah Smith: Right. But so it gets pretty subtle bec…

    Full show notes at the publisher

    Anna Gát, startup founder and late bloomer Aug 08, 2022
    Show notes

    NEWS

    * Podcasts are now available in places like Spotify and Apple Podcasts. If you listen to them there, please rate or like the episodes as this helps other people to find them.

    * I am writing films reviews on Letterboxd. You can find them here. You might enjoy this one about The Truman Show. Again, hit like to help other people find the review. Thanks!

    Anna Gát was a showbiz child in Budapest. She converted to Catholicism aged twelve under her own initiative. After an exciting but then dispiriting youth in Hungary at the time of EU accession, she emigrated to London which was a dreary and disappointing experience. In her thirites, she got a job in a startup. Then she read an article by Sam Altman: “I didn't know that startups were a philosophy.” From here, her life started to change. She gave up playwriting and scriptwriting and became the founder of InterIntellect. Her entry into the start-up world changed her life, unrecognisably. This interview is a brief account of Anna’s life so far. You can read Anna’s writing here. This is the InterIntellect site.


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