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The Christian Past That Wasn’t: Formerly Telling Jefferson Lies — History
The Christian Past That Wasn’t: Formerly Telling Jefferson Lies

Season Three which began April 28 is now complete. I renamed the podcast The Christian Past That Wasn’t to be consistent with my book from Broadleaf Books, The Christian Past That Wasn’t: Debunking the Christian Nationalist Myths That Hijack History. This is so much more than a fact-checking book; it critiques the entire Christian nationalist project and misuse of history for political gain. Consistent with the first two seasons of this podcast, The Christian Past That Wasn’t demonstrates that separation of church and state was the intention of the framers of the charter documents. We would be so much better off if we stayed true to separation of church and state in the US.

Podcast summary:

Season one of Telling Jefferson Lies chronicles how history can be hijacked for ideological and political purposes, as well as a much broader story about the surge of Christian nationalism and the misuse of history which often goes along with it. The series begins in season one with an in-depth consideration of the methods of Christian nationalist story teller David Barton. Then I tell the story of how his book on Jefferson was pulled from publication in 2012 by publisher Thomas Nelson, followed by the response of evangelicals to that rare event. From there, I broaden the scope to examine the varieties of Christian nationalism and the negative consequences of this way of thinking about church and state. The last segment examines the reasons why the separation of church and state is good history, good civics, and good religion.

Season two consists of interviews with experts on Christian nationalism and the effects of religious liberty on church and state.

For more information on books about these topics, go to http://www.gettingjeffersonright.com and http://www.christianpast.com.

Copyright: © 2024 Warren Throckmorton

Latest Episodes:

Live at Nooks Gallery & Book Shop with Scott Coley, July 30, 2026 - Bonus Episode Aug 06, 2026

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On July 30, 2026, philosopher Scott Coley interviewed me at a book event at Nooks Gallery & Book Shop in Lancaster, PA. The crowd was positive and supportive of The Christian Past That Wasn't and separation of church and state as a principle.

Scott covered several of the book's myths and allowed me to expand on the reasons why people are attracted to Christian nationalist stories. We covered just a few of the stories and concluded with a reading about a white man's history.

If you have read the book and enjoyed it, this will be a great supplement to that experience.

Written and produced by Warren Throckmorton

Hosted by Shawn Smucker at Nooks Gallery & Books Shop, 112 N. Prince St. Lancaster, PA.

Scott Coley's episodes in Telling Jefferson Lies: https://www.buzzsprout.com/admin/2286752/episodes/15194310-ministers-of-propaganda-bonus-episode-with-scott-coley

https://www.buzzsprout.com/admin/2286752/episodes/14874848-consequences-of-christian-nationalism

Music by Roman Candle, Jonas Fair, and Netop

Al Mohler vs. The Constitution Jul 16, 2026

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In this final episode of the season, there are three parts which support the concluding chapter of The Christian Past That Wasn't. The first part is former Secretary of Health and Human Services Ben Carson's false telling of Ben Franklin's call to prayer during the Constitutional Convention in 1787. Carson said the delegates stopped and prayed after Franklin called them to prayer. They didn't. This is the kind of folklore which I correct in The Christian Past That Wasn't.

The second part of this segment is a brief analysis of Al Mohler's admission that the Constitution doesn't acknowledge any Christian foundation. This significant admission came in a short video this week. Even though Mohler is honest about one aspect of the Constitution, he considers the lack of explicit Christian language to be an error on the part of the founders. Here is where he is wrong and I respond to Al Mohler's opposition to the American Constitution.

The third and final part tracks with the Conclusion of The Christian Past That Wasn't. I discuss separation of church and state in light of the golden rule and the moral teachings of Christ. I end the podcast where I started it by examining the issue of posting copies of the Ten Commandments in public school classrooms. I come down on the side that posting the Decalogue is an imposition of one faith over others and thus an improper establishment of religion. As such it violates the golden rule. If I don't want someone to impose their faith on me, I shouldn't do that to others.

In the words of Texas state legislator John Bryant from the podcast, "That's not fair, and that's not American."

Produced, written, and hosted by Warren Throckmorton

Music by Netop, Jonathan Swaim, and Dustin Blatnik

To get The Christian Past That Wasn't go to www.christianpast.com for buying option.

The Christian Past That Wasn't Music Playlist

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/6jP94UmS5sCwoB4Ex3ini9?si=C2d_agOxTfechFztsPVXgA

Amazon: https://music.amazon.com/user-playlists/d7a5977b7b4543f399f70463b226f4bfsune?marketplaceId=ATVPDKIKX0DER&musicTerritory=US&ref=dm_sh_qtlquXBX7hURQO7DbA05ImNSy

Christian Nationalism and Public Education: The Cost of Disinformation Jul 09, 2026

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The episode begins with a role play of a teacher presenting a history lesson right out of the Christian nationalist playbook. Mrs. Johnson's students try to help her with questions but she doesn't take the help. Her disinformation campaign continues until slavery comes up and then the lesson abruptly ends. Could this happen? A better question is, what do we do now that it is happening in some schools around the nation?

If you have read the book The Christian Past That Wasn't or been following along with the podcast this season, you should be able to recognize the historical errors in Mrs. Johnson's presentation to her class.

In this segment, I present another excerpt from the Texas State Board of Education which illustrates how Christian nationalist disinformation permeates opposition to public education. In this scenario a parent brings in David Barton's discredited book, The Jefferson Lies, as an authority and refuses to address a challenge to it. The parent appears not to know the book was pulled from publication due to historical errors.

There is a long history of conflict in public schools over religious differences. However, if religion is kept out of public education, this conflict could be avoided. A robust doctrine of separation of church and state is beneficial for public schools and should be enforced.

Written, produced, and hosted by Warren Throckmorton

Classroom simulation acted out by Debbie Throckmorton and the grandchildren

Music by Jonathan Swaim, Jonas Fair, and Dustin Blatnik

For more information about Getting Jefferson Right go to https://www.amazon.com/Getting-Jefferson-Right-Fact-Checking-Claims/dp/B0DT9H7MTC

For more information about The Christian Past That Wasn't go to www.christianpast.com

The Texas Board of Education and Ruby Bridges: What Whitewashing Looks Like Jul 02, 2026

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This is an opportunity to observe whitewashing as it happened. The Texas State Board of Education has been revising social studies standards for students in K-12. One member wanted to remove a description of why Ruby Bridges was special in civil rights history. As the first Black child to enter an all-white school in the American South, Bridges helped open doors that are still opening.

In this segment, I provide audio of the Board meeting which demonstrates the majority efforts to push aside minority concerns about the contribution of Bridges and representation in an accurate history. One of the board members who helped lead the successful effort to keep Bridges in the standards, Staci Childs Davis, joins me to talk about the meeting and her reactions to it.

In the second half of this segment, I critique Donald Trump's patriotic education initiative and speak to Jemar Tisby about whitewashing on a national scale as we move through the 250th birthday of the nation. This segment is a highlight of the season.

Produced, written, and hosted by Warren Throckmorton

Music by Jonas Fair and Netop

"James Baldwin was right about patriotism" by Jemar Tisby https://jemartisby.substack.com/p/james-baldwin-was-right-about-patriotism

Did Thomas Jefferson Base the Declaration of Independence on the Bible and Christianity? Jun 24, 2026

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The claim that the Declaration of Independence was based on the Bible is common among those who believe America was founded as a Christian nation. Recently, Tim and David Barton are promoting the idea that the exact wording of parts of the Declaration was taken from sermons delivered in the early 1700s by Congregationalist preacher John Wise. They add that Cornell University history professor Clinton Rossiter taught that Wise influenced the American struggle for independence. This is supposed to bolster their argument about the Christian basis for the Declaration of Independence.

In this segment, I assert that the exact language of the Declaration is not in Wise's essays, nor does Rossiter say Wise was critical to American independence. A review of the primary sources shows that the Bartons' claims are false. This leads to a discussion of why the Bartons assert such easily disproved falsehoods.

Produced, written, and hosted by Warren Throckmorton

Music by Netop, Jonas Fair, and Dustin Blatnik

For more information about the book, The Christian Past That Wasn't, go to www.christianpast.com.

The American Way is Separation of Religion and State with Freedom of Religious Expression Jun 16, 2026

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Randall Balmer joins me for remarks about why he believes America is not a Christian nation and why separation of church and state is the American way. This is the topic of chapter 6 in my new book The Christian Past That Wasn't. In the book, I cover the topics in this segment as well as the Articles of Confederation, the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, Jefferson's letter to the Danbury Baptists, The Church of the Holy Trinity v. the United States, and the views of James Madison. Christian nationalists have significantly distorted the history in this area to reframe and redefine separation of church and state. I go to the primary sources to show readers what the framers said about this important principle.

To purchase or learn more about The Christian Past That Wasn't, go to www.christianpast.com.

Written, produced, and hosted by Warren Throckmorton

Music provided by Roman Candle, Jonathan Swaim, and Netop.

For a playlist of music used on the podcast, see this link: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/6jP94UmS5sCwoB4Ex3ini9?si=0C7Woza2QRaKrIsvvJ_l7g

Examining a White House Video on the Faith of the Founders Jun 03, 2026

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During the America 250 celebration, the Trump administration has partnered with Hillsdale College to produce various educational resources to promote a view of America's founding which is slanted toward Christian nationalism. In this segment, I take on Mark David Hall's video on the faith of the founders. You can watch it on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5J4S5LPeWM.

This segment thematically corresponds to chapter 5 in my book The Christian Past That Wasn't (christianpast.com). There is material in the podcast not in the book and much more material in the book than in the podcast.

In today's segment I have help from Gregg Frazer, Dean of humanities at The Master's University, Greg Forster, professor of theology at Trinity Divinity School and Michael Coulter, professor of political science and humanities at Grove City College.

In the video, it is important to point out that Hall speaks about the time of the founding as if African slaves and Indigenous people were not in the United States. I don't mention it either in the podcast episode, but I plan to do so when I get to the relavant chapter in the book.

The music today is provided by Netop. You can stream these tracks in full by going to https://artists.landr.com/991043708780.

Written, produced, and hosted by Warren Throckmorton

Is America a Christian Nation Because States Once Required Religious Tests? May 26, 2026

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Chapter 4 of The Christian Past That Wasn't takes up the question of this episode. This episode cites the book and expands on it as well. In sum, I take the position that the experience of colonial and state governments are historically interesting but not directly relevant to our secular system of Constitutional government. What the framers did in the Constitutional Convention is what is relevant. In the book, I fact check claims about what the states required for office holders and I examine the ways different states handled church and state relationships.

There was the Williams Way (Rhode Island and to some degree the mid-Atlantic states) and the Winthrop Way (Massachusetts and everybody else).

This is not to say that America is a secular nation culturally speaking. If anything, the nation became more culturally Christian after the founders passed from the scene. One of the reasons the founding era was reframed as a Christian founding was due to the heavy influence of Christianity in the expanding nation.

Produced, written, and hosted by Warren Throckmorton

Slippery Rock University history professor Aaron Cowan and Dartmouth College religion professor Randall Balmer make appearances in this episode.

Music by Jonas Fair, Jeremiah Lawson, and Netop.

Netop is the name for my instrumental music project. Learn more about it at https://salemgrovepress.com/netop.

Book ordering options at www.christianpast.com.

America is Not a Covenant Nation - The Christian Past That Wasn't Launch Episode May 19, 2026

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Today is the official publication date of The Christian Past That Wasn't: Debunking the Christian Nationalist Myths That Hijack History. Although it has been available for a couple of weeks at Amazon and Barnes & Noble, today it goes on sale everywhere. This segment continues to be guided by the contents of the book. Today, I focus on the first myth: America is a covenant homeland for European Protestants. The claims are persistent on this one and it undergirds most of the rest of the myths.

In this segment, I discuss clips of VP JD Vance, Eric Metaxas, and Sen. Josh Hawley making various covenant oriented claims.

Produced and written by Warren Throckmorton

Book website: www.christianpast.com

Evidence the American System Was Not Founded on Christianity - Bonus Episode May 14, 2026

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America as we celebrate it today was founded in stages. Independence came via the Declaration of Independence and the Revolutionary War. Our current system of government came later via the Constitutional Convention in 1787. In this short episode, I focus on the system created by the Constitution as amended by the Bill of Rights.

For more information see www.Christianpast.com.

Written and produced by Warren Throckmorton

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