The Business of Fashion Podcast

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Why Fashion, Media and Entertainment Are Converging Aug 25, 2023

Show notes

Darnell Strom’s professional path has wound its way from politics to Hollywood, a trajectory that started with several globe-trotting years working for former US President Bill Clinton. As partner and head of culture and leadership at entertainment agency UTA today Strom represents totemic cultural figures including Nobel Peace Prize laureate Malala Yousafzai and Edward Enninful, the outgoing editor-in-chief of British Vogue, as well as Gisele Bundchen and Michaela Cole. The breadth of his client roster reflects Strom’s thesis that captivating, culturally impactful people can come from anywhere.

“My definition of talent isn't just an actor, a musician and an athlete,” he says. “It's also a well-known politician or an incredible activist or a rock star CEO or someone in fashion, an artist … I want to be able to represent all those people.”

This week on The BoF Podcast, BoF founder and editor-in-chief Imran Amed sits down with Strom to discuss what his career has taught him about the power of creativity and cultural convergence – and the opportunities this is creating for top talents.

Key Insights:

It was a conversation with the late fashion designer Virgil Abloh that inspired Strom to think differently about his work as an agent and seek out clients from all types of industries. He recalls Abloh telling him: “You should be representing people like me, people who are multi-hyphenate, people who understand that there are no walls between these worlds of culture.”
Strom believes social media has irrevocably democratised the entertainment industry, making it possible for even an aspiring filmmaker from anywhere to create a blockbuster movie or a fashion trend that stems from a single post. “As you look at the marketplace, both in fashion and entertainment and media, everything is moving at such a fast rate. And if you're doing the job the same way you did 10 years ago, you're going to get left behind,” he says.
Strom believes the changes we are seeing is just the start of a bigger journey. “I think the future of culture is convergence, which we're seeing now. But I think it's just the beginning of it. I think the next 10 years are going to be fascinating,” says Strom.

Additional Resources:

Darnell Strom to Lead UTA’s Newly Created Culture and Leadership Division: Political staffer turned Hollywood rep joins entertainment agency UTA to head its new culture and leadership division.
What the Hollywood Strike Means for Fashion: While red carpets have momentarily dried up for brands and stylists, the SAG and WGA’s simultaneous strikes pose an unlikely opportunity for fashion companies to tap celebrity talent.

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How to Turn Our Fear of AI Into Optimism Aug 18, 2023

Show notes

Mo Gawdat, an artificial intelligence expert and former chief business officer of Google X, explains how humans have the power to turn AI into a positive force that benefits society.

Background:

Public perception of artificial intelligence ranges widely. Depending on who you’re listening to, it could be a source of unlimited technological potential or a dire threat right out of a science fiction novel.

According to Mo Gawdat, the former chief business officer for Google X, concerns about AI are valid. But fears that AI will turn against humanity are misguided. Rather, says Gawdat, we have an opportunity to teach AI to be a force for good.

"If 1 percent of us, only 1 percent of humanity... show the good side of us in front of those machines, those machines will be intelligent enough to say humanity is a divine being,” Gawdat said at BoF VOICES 2022.

This week on The BoF Podcast, Gawdat discusses the future of AI and why ethics are crucial to managing its development.

Key Insights:

As AI continues to evolve at a startling pace, Gawdat believes it will surpass human intelligence in the next few years. “My prediction is that [in] 2049, AI will be a billion times smarter than humans… It's a comparison between the intelligence of Einstein and the intelligence of a fly. And we are the fly,” says Gawdat.
Gawdat compares humanity’s relationship with AI to that of a parent and child. The technology has the potential to be greater than its creators, but like a child, it needs a positive influence to grow.
Gawdat believes humanity can teach AI morals and ethics that are in society’s best interest. “If we start to look at those machines as a new form of artificial being, a form of being that's going to come into our society, then the question that we need to ask is a question of ethics. It's not a question of control,” says Gawdat.
Gawdat believes humans can show AI the positive parts of society, but humanity needs to first understand how to get over its obstacle of negative bias. “The truth of humanity is amazing,” he says. “The only problem we have is we stopped showing that. We just talk about the negativity and the fakeness.”

Additional Resources:

How AI and Web3 Are Shaping Fashion’s Future: BoF welcomed business leaders, technologists and creative innovators to share their insights on the pivotal technologies shaping the fashion industry. Watch on-demand now.
Fashion Execs Can’t Stop Talking About AI: Executives have been highlighting the technology more often on earnings calls, suggesting more businesses are adopting it — and maybe giving it a shoutout to impress investors.
Generative AI Won’t Be the End of Human Fashion Designers: Just as photography didn’t spell the extinction of painting, generative AI won’t kill off human designers. It may even create more appreciation for the physical craft of fashion.

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Why Entrepreneurial Success Is About More Than a Big Exit Aug 11, 2023

Show notes

When Ben Gorham of Byredo and Monique Rodriguez of Mielle Organics sold the businesses they spent years building, the financial milestone was just the culmination of more meaningful professional journeys that began with a clear sense of purpose.

Background:

Beauty founders Ben Gorham of fragrance label Byredo, and Monique Rodriguez of hair care brand Mielle Organics, both took their businesses from indie beauty darlings with cult followings to high-profile exits to major conglomerates: Byredo sold to Spanish luxury giant Puig for $1 billion in 2022, while Procter & Gamble bought Mielle Organics earlier this year.

But the two founders didn’t start their businesses with the sole focus of cashing in quickly. “We live in a climate where expectations are that you start a company and you build it to great heights, and then you sell it, and you make lots of money. And this is how we define success stories,” said Gorham. “For me, for many years, it was really about just the craft. It was really about the product. It was really about learning how to operate a business.”

As Rodriguez learned after building a loyal customer base, a sale impacts many other stakeholders. “When you build a brand in the Black community, it's not my brand, it's their brand,” said Rodriguez. Yet she doesn’t downplay the personal importance of the exit. “It's a true testament to — especially as a Black woman, a woman of colour — what we build is very valuable… I didn't grow up seeing this. So to accomplish just having a conversation [with investors, including P&G] was rewarding for me,” she said.

This week on The BoF Podcast, Gorham and Rodriguez sit down with Priya Rao, executive editor of The Business of Beauty, to share how they navigate entrepreneurship and success in a conversation from The Business of Beauty Global Forum 2023.

Key Insights:

Rodriguez started Mielle to fill a void in hair care that she and other Black customers faced. “As a consumer myself, I saw that there was a lack of relatability. I thought that there was a lack of education. I felt that there was no brand that understood my needs as a natural hair consumer,” she said.
Gorham also sought to fill an underserved market with Byredo. “The idea of luxury and the culture of luxury didn't speak to people that looked like me or grew up like me or came from my culture [with a Canadian father and Indian mother, growing up in Sweden]. So I set out to kind of redefine what that could mean as a brand,” said Gorham.
When her start-up was ready to explore being part of a larger company, Rodriguez said it was important that she was clear what she wanted — and didn’t want — from Mielle’s suitor. “As you find a partner, it's like a marriage, right? And you don't want to get divorced… So it was really important that my partners understood where we were trying to go and did not want to disrupt what we knew we were already good at,” she said.
Being part of a larger company and maintaining an entrepreneurial spirit are not mutually exclusive… My mother grew up in a garage in Mumbai. To say that the financial milestone or the monetary aspect wasn’t important… would be a lie.” said Gorham. “Selling kind of implies that I wouldn't be there or that I would exit… even though that’s the mechanical trigger of the transaction, my role is still intact. I continue to work night and day as I’ve done over this journey,” he said.

Additional Resources:

The Business of Beauty Global Forum: Where Will Growth Come From?

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Allbirds’ Tim Brown on Learning to Lead With Resilience Aug 04, 2023

Show notes

The co-founder and chief innovation officer of the Nasdaq-listed sneaker brand reflects on how his previous career in sports prepared him professionally and personally for leading a company through both the highs and the lows.

Background:

When Tim Brown stepped away from his role as co-chief executive at Allbirds in May, the footwear retailer that he co-founded seven years ago was losing its sheen as the sustainability-focused direct-to-consumer darling that once enraptured investors. Its first full-year results since its Nasdaq flotation in November 2021 revealed a series of setbacks, from a poorly executed expansion into adjacent products like apparel to losing relevance with its core customers, leading to net losses of $101.35 million. The testing of Allbirds’ team since the IPO has often seemed relentless yet, according to Brown, it’s an opportunity to draw on inner strengths to excel as a leader.

“[R]ising and falling is just a part of the journey,” he wrote in a recent post on LinkedIn in which he also shared an article by a team of business reporters that laid bare Allbirds’ challenges. Rather than criticising the article, he said he saw it as a reminder that “you are never as good or as bad as they say you are (this helped me a lot during my football career), and that all of my best work has come when I've been written off.”

This week on The BoF Podcast, Brown speaks with BoF founder and editor-in-chief Imran Amed on how his journey from the football pitch to the corporate boardroom has shown him why leaders of young brands like him need to keep a resilient entrepreneurial mindset even in adversity.

Key Insights:

The football pitch served as a training ground to cope with “an even more pressurised environment as an entrepreneur,” Brown said. “Sport teaches you to trust the process and to hold a long-term view, knowing that in the fullness of time that hard work usually is rewarded,” he said.
Brown believes entrepreneurs need to find time to take stock, even if it means not working “100%” all of the time. “The most important thing that I've learned as an entrepreneur is not to confuse hard work with the right work.” he said. “You have the ability to maintain your focus on something for a longer period of time by just pulling back a little bit. And that space allows you the perspective to see something for what it is, which is a journey with steps forward and steps back.”
When reflecting on the setbacks Allbirds has faced in recent times, Brown said that instead of searching to understand what he could have done differently, he wants to look forward. The key now, he said, is “get really, really clear on the things that we do better than anyone is the process that we're in.”

Additional Resources:

Tim Brown on Allbirds’ Sustainable Footwear Revolution: Allbirds co-founder and co-CEO discusses how his high-risk strategy has created a sustainable brand that is disrupting the established footwear market.
The Rise and Fall of Allbirds: The sneaker brand's comeback plan includes refocusing on its core consumer and a carbon-negative shoe.

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Francesca Bellettini on Managing Creativity, Customers and the Bottom Line Jul 28, 2023

Show notes

Kering’s new deputy CEO of brand development shares her luxury brand management playbook in this archive interview with Imran Amed from BoF VOICES 2018.

Background:

Last week, Francesca Belletini was appointed deputy CEO of brand development at Kering, making her arguably the most powerful female fashion executive in the luxury sector. As part of her new role, not only will she retain her position as CEO of Saint Laurent, she will also oversee Gucci, Bottega Veneta, Balenciaga and Alexander McQueen. It was at Saint Laurent, where the former investment banker cemented her reputation for razor-sharp merchandising strategies that married seamlessly with the work of creative director Anthony Vaccarello.

“When you clarify the brand positioning, then everything comes together,” said Bellettini, on revitalising the Saint Laurent brand. “People recognise the authenticity in the way that we do that.”

BoF founder and editor-in-chief Imran Amed sat down with Bellettini at BoF VOICES 2018 to discuss how she balances the priorities of fostering creativity, cultivating customers and running a profitable business.

Key Insights:

Credited for growing Saint Laurent into a multi-billion-euro powerhouse, Bellettini believes that a key is to connect with customers in their home markets. "I'm a huge believer of building business first with local clients. Conquer a consumer at home, then when they travel, they follow," she said.
Another key is authenticity. “It's better to present yourself the way you really are… Be authentic. If they choose you, they remain with you,” said Belletini on the importance of building meaningful relationships with customers.
At Saint Laurent, Bellettini had a clear vision for growing both the top and bottom lines, “but in reality it's the profit that makes your business sustainable," she explained.
Striking a balance between growth and continuing to resonate as a brand is top of mind for Bellettini. “How do we remain relevant? How do we continue growing without compromising on the positioning of the brand? How do we continue to launch a successful product?” she asked.

Additional Resources:

Who Should Be Gucci’s New CEO?: Following this week’s announcement that longtime Gucci chief Marco Bizzarri will exit the company in September, Imran Amed shares his top picks for one of the top jobs in the global luxury industry.
As Gucci’s CEO Steps Down, Saint Laurent’s Chief Steps Up: Marco Bizzarri led the Italian luxury giant through a historic expansion before the business struggled to bounce back from the pandemic. Parent company Kering announced the move as part of a broader executive shakeup after which Saint Laurent CEO Francesca Bellettini will oversee all the group’s brands.
How Saint Laurent Became a $3 Billion Powerhouse: Chief executive Francesca Bellettini breaks down how she worked with designer Anthony Vaccarello to double sales in 5 years, leaning into an amped-up take on Parisian glamour, seasonless merchandising and a rapid expansion in leather goods.

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Why Brand Marketing Still Matters Jul 21, 2023

Show notes

What do Poolside FM and Isamaya Beauty have in common? Their founders have created brands with unique yet relatable identities.

Background:

Isamaya Ffrench, makeup artist and founder of Isamaya Beauty, and Marty Bell, co-founder of sunscreen brand Vacation (and Poolside FM), both took unconventional routes to turning their products into veritable brands. Vacation began as a spinoff of the internet radio station inspired by summer tunes of the 1980s, Meanwhile, Ffrench’s brand sparked attention for her new Lips line’s penis-shaped lipstick cases. Bold and risky in equal measure, these moves laid the groundwork for their businesses while giving their brands personalities and spark.

“If you're strong enough to have a vision and get a brand off the ground, you know what your audience wants,” said Ffrench. “Do the things that feel natural and right, because it's when you start doing the things that the CMO tells you you have to do and you feel awkward about it… no one's going to want your product because it doesn't look authentic.”

This week on The BoF Podcast, Bell and Ffrench speak with BoF founder Imran Amed about the power of brand building and how founders can inject their own personalities into their products to make them recognisable and memorable.

Key Insights:

Ffrench advises founders to scrutinise conventional wisdom about how to launch a brand rather than trusting their instincts and vision. “It's really about taking things [advice] with a pinch of salt, but following your gut and your spirit and doing what feels right for you and your brand,” she says.
According to Bell, people gravitate towards brands that are a reflection of their founders’ personalities and beliefs. “Some of the best brands in the early stages are just true personifications of their founders… That’s very hard to compete with if you don’t have someone who has a view on the world and a perspective,” Bell explains.
Ffrench believes large beauty corporations struggle creating an authentic brand identity because they focus on numbers rather than forming a connection with customers. “You lose the essence, you lose the integrity and the artistry because that takes time and money and spirit,” Ffrench observes. Bell says the key to creating an authentic brand is finding an idea or aesthetic you’re interested in and creating the product line around it. “If you're not deeply passionate about the world that you're going to build [with your brand], you need to find someone who can be obsessive,” Bell says.

Additional Resources:

The Business of Beauty Global Forum: How Do We Create Connection? During the third session of The Business of Beauty Global Forum, Pamela Anderson, Isayama Ffrench and Glossier chief executive Kyle Leahy unpacked how to build unique brands and drive authentic relationships with customers.
Sunscreen Brand Vacation Takes Its Miami Pool Party Vibe to the Suburbs: Following a $6 million Series A funding round, the sunscreen brand prepares to move past its club of creative clientele and reach the masses.

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Oliver Spencer on The Ups and Downs of Building a Fashion Business Jul 14, 2023

Show notes

The celebrated menswear designer joins BoF’s Imran Amed to discuss the evolution of his career in fashion from selling secondhand clothes to building his own brands.

Background:

At first glance, Oliver Spencer’s story might seem like a fashion fairytale. In just a matter of a few years, he went from selling secondhand garments in a stall on London’s Portobello Road to seeing actors wearing his bespoke waistcoats in the 1994 film “Four Weddings and a Funeral,” putting his formalwear label Favourbrook into the spotlight.

But in the subsequent years, Spencer faced the challenges that come with running an independent fashion brand: from debt to self-doubt while aiming to reach profitability milestones.

“Small is beautiful. You have to have a certain amount of business turnover to get to these levels, but you don’t need hundreds of millions [of dollars] to run a profitable brand,” says Spencer.

Key Insights:

The British designer’s formalwear background — which includes creating looks for highbrow events like the Royal Ascot — informed his approach to menswear, even given today’s inclinations for toned-down dressing. “Just because you’re wearing casual, doesn’t mean you’re not dressing right,” says Spencer.
Even as consumer preferences change, however, Spencer believes it’s just as critical to maintain clear sight of the brand’s original vision as it is to evolve it. “I will have one foot stuck in the past and the rest of my body walking into the future,” he said.
As a small brand, storytelling and working with the right wholesale partners go hand in hand. “The wrong wholesale partner can send the wrong message,” said Spencer.
Spencer has ADHD and dyslexia, which he says creates both challenges and opportunities. “You understand how to deal with problems and you understand how to work out a problem in a different way… You can see things in a problem that other people can’t see.”

Additional Resources:

To watch “Four Weddings and a Funeral” click here.
Explainer — Why the Menswear Market Is on Fire: From the rise of work from home to the decline of streetwear, BoF unpacks what’s driving the “unprecedented” boom in the men’s market.
Where Does the Suit Fit into the Modern Wardrobe? The fate of the traditional suit was already in question long before the pandemic. Where does the market go from here?

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Samuel Ross on Fostering Inclusion in Creative Industries Jul 07, 2023

Show notes

British fashion designer Samuel Ross opens up to BoF editor-in-chief Imran Amed about his work to foster more diversity in fashion.

Background: Creative industries still have a long way to go before they become truly inclusive, according to Samuel Ross, designer and founder of London-based fashion label A-Cold-Wall and industrial and product design studio SR_A.

“There's not enough diversity in the sector for high achievers who should be there,” he said to BoF founder and editor-in-chief Imran Amed on stage at WPP Stream, during the annual Cannes Lions International Festival of Creativity.

This week on The BoF Podcast, Amed and Ross explore the designer’s creative processes, his approach to engaging younger customers as well as his mission to build a more inclusive creative sector.

Key Insights:

As a multi-disciplinary artist, working in fields ranging from architecture to furniture design, Ross takes a “democratic approach” to his work. “I try not to operate across a hierarchy when it comes to creativity. I care as much about the texture of a raw cut glass as… I do about the reverence of a chapel,” he says.
He also leans into technology — be it through gaming or augmented reality — to create experiences that resonate with younger consumers. “We're using [digital] play as a handshake with the audience base to get onto those channels and to build a new relationship through product and add new characteristics to product,” explains Ross.
Social media also enables Ross to forge an organic connection with his community of followers. When the designer posted about A-Cold-Wall’s most recent Nike collaboration on Instagram, for example, it garnered more than 24,000 likes in 17 hours. “It's really about driving the founder-consumer connection where possible,” said Ross.
It was after sharing his thoughts on the fashion industry’s inclusivity shortcomings on social media that Ross decided to be more proactive about enabling change in the industry by creating concrete opportunities for people traditionally excluded from the industry through the Samuel Ross Black British Artist Grant Programme, which provides funding and mentorship to young designers, artists and other creatives. “I had to look in the mirror and say, ‘Well, what am I actually going to do about this?’ he says.

Additional Resources:

A-Cold-Wall Founder Samuel Ross Returns With More Grants for Black British Creatives: British fashion designer, Samuel Ross created a fund to help Black creatives and startups establish themselves in the fashion industry.

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Finding A Sense of Belonging in Beauty Jun 30, 2023

Show notes

At The Business of Beauty Global Forum, activist and author Schuyler Bailar shared his journey to understanding beauty and self-acceptance as a biracial, transgender man.

Background:

For Schuyler Bailar, an activist, author and the first openly transgender NCAA Division I swimmer in the US, finding a sense of belonging hasn’t always been easy. Bailar realised being accepted by society wasn’t as important as accepting himself.

“Belonging is not something that's going to be given to me. It's something that I have to find on my own,” said Bailar at The Business of Beauty Global Forum 2023.

This week on The BoF Podcast, Bailar opens up about his own experiences with the pressures to conform to Eurocentric and cisgender beauty ideals as a biracial, transgender man, how he discovered his path to self-acceptance and why he wants others to be able to do the same.

Key Insights:

From an early age, Bailar was acutely aware of the negative role the beauty industry and society as a whole can play in shaping an individual’s perception of belonging and self-worth, a deep sense that was shaped by the experiences of his mother as a Korean immigrant growing up in the US. “She tried very hard to fit whatever it was that would make her feel included, which a lot of the time meant bending towards whiteness, bending towards assimilation,” said Bailar.
Before he transitioned, Bailar attempted to conform to society’s cisgender expectations of how women should look, which ultimately led him further away from his true self. “I tried so hard to be what society expected of me. What society told me I was: a woman,” said Bailar. “I was trying so hard to figure out how to be this woman, and yet I was miserable.”
At his first collegiate swim practice at Harvard University, Bailar said he felt hesitant and scared standing before his teammates in a Speedo, but he found the courage to continue swimming. “I stood alongside all my teammates, none of whom were transgender like me, feeling not beautiful, feeling misshapen, feeling strange, feeling weird, feeling not man enough. But I dove in… and I swam with them anyway,” said Bailar.
Since graduating, Bailar has turned his attention to activism, and works to challenge society’s beauty standards. “What I want from the world is for us to be able to dive into a beauty that originates at every single person so that nobody has to stop being themselves, so that nobody has to show up and change who they are in order to feel like they belong,” said Bailar.

Additional Resources:

Lessons From Day One of The Business of Beauty Global Forum: During BoF’s The Business of Beauty Global Forum, Schuyler Bailar discussed how the beauty industry and Euro-centric standards affected his mother’s childhood and his own.
Schuyler Bailar, first trans athlete to compete on a NCAA Division 1 men's team, wants all trans athletes to feel represented: CBS News interviewed Schuyler Bailar about his experience as the first openly transgender athlete to compete on a NCAA Division I men’s team.

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Examining the Complexity of Fashion in Saudi Arabia Jun 23, 2023

Show notes

On both a local and international scale, the Middle East’s fashion industry has seen significant growth thanks to changing regulations and an influx of creatives.

Background:

Substantial economic activity as well as cultural and regulatory shifts in the Middle East have accelerated the growth of the region’s $89 billion fashion industry. Middle Eastern governments are fostering this expansion as they increasingly encourage creative work from designers, social media influencers and stylists, and a more unified culture emerges across borders, said Rawan Maki, BoF Insights’ associate director of research and analysis.

This week on The BoF Podcast, Maki and Marriam Mossalli, founder and chief executive of Niche Arabia, a Saudi Arabia-based luxury communications and marketing agency, join BoF editor-in-chief Imran Amed to discuss BoF Insights’ latest report, “Fashion in the Middle East: Optimism and Transformation” and what’s happening in the region’s fashion scene.

Key Insights:

According to Mossali, Saudi women’s lives have changed: Women now make up 33 percent of the local workforce, women-owned businesses have increased 60 percent in the past two years, and their involvement in leadership roles has grown. “The biggest change is that it's not just coming from someone in an office saying ‘Look, we're going to open the doors for women,” said Mossali. “Women drive, women can get behind the wheel, making sure that they're directing this change.”
With the integration of women into the labour force, fashion in the region has evolved to suit working women’s lives, and trends like “modest wear” have grown. “What we're seeing is its [garments] changing … Light fabrics, shorter, so that it doesn't get caught inside our car door or the wheels of our office chair. It's made now for us with that lifestyle in mind,” said Mossali.
Due to increased digital transparency and connectivity, Saudi women are now looking to brands to provide more than accessories to go with their Abayas — a full-length garment some Muslim women wear in public as outerwear, like a coat. “They [customers] want more ready-to-wear, more beauty, they want more shoes,” said Maki.
Mossali believes while more flexible government regulations allow brands to create a growing fashion industry in the region, cultivating the business ultimately lies with the private sector. “When it comes to manufacturing, to education, a lot of those initiatives are coming with the support from the government, but they are led by the private sector and private institutions. [The government] is enabling us and empowering us to do those things,” said Mossali.
During the discussion, Amed asked Mossali if Saudi Arabia can truly grow a thriving fashion ecosystem, given the criticism the country has received in the past for its stance on LGBTQ issues and the fact that the fashion industry’s workforce historically has high levels of LGBTQ representation. Mossali pointed to the Saudi Tourism Authority website, which says the country now welcomes LGBTQ visitors, and suggested that people wishing to better understand the country to visit in person.

Additional Resources:

Fashion in the Middle East: Optimism and Transformation | BoF Insights: Shifting consumer behaviours and new government investment strategies have set up the fashion industry in the region to develop in the upcoming years.

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