The Business of Fashion Podcast

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James Whitner on Culture, Community and Building Brands with Purpose Feb 28, 2025

Show notes

James Whitner — founder of The Whitaker Group and the visionary behind retailers such as A Ma Maniére and Social Status — reveals how culture, purpose, and empathy drive his approach to business. Whitner witnessed firsthand how marginalised communities often face limited options, shaping his commitment to serving communities typically overlooked by the fashion industry.

“I think what helped me understand life is difficult, it's just seeing a difficult life, right? Watching people struggle and seeing that there is privilege in pain,” says Whitner, about growing up in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. “When I look at what we’re creating now, it has purpose and is about standing up Black culture at the centre,” Whitner adds. “Everything is about real experiences and connections to people.”

This week on the BoF Podcast, founder and CEO Imran Amed sits down with Whitner to explore his journey, learn about the driving force behind The Whitaker Group’s community-centric retail experiences, and understand why authenticity and cultural connection are non-negotiables in today’s fashion landscape.

Key Insights:

Intentionality and human connection are integral to James Whitner’s approach to retail spaces. Rather than focusing solely on product or profit, he strives to shape how people feel and engage with his brands. “We want to be really intentional about how we make humans feel, our connection to humanity, and how we can build a community,” he explains, emphasising that empathy and shared purpose can help to forge vibrant, long-lasting communities.

Whitner also contends that building authentic connections starts with recognising the integral role of culture and purpose. “We sit in brand experiences and purpose because you can't leave culture out. I think everything we do is centred in culture,” he says.

A key to Whitner’s success is resisting the temptation to be “for everybody.” Instead, he focuses on aligning with partners who share his vision for serving specific audiences with integrity. “If you want to work with brands who want to be for everybody, that means you’re for nobody,” he explains.

Whitner champions an unwavering optimism that stays intact even amid shifting political headwinds. “We have to wake up and work and we have to be optimistic about the things that we can accomplish. If not, we've already lost because an administration change doesn't mean that my feelings around the work we're doing has changed and it doesn't mean that we can't be as impactful as we've always been.”

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Why Can’t Fashion Fix Its Labour Exploitation Problem? Feb 25, 2025

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The revelation this year of child labour in India’s cotton fields and modern-day slavery in Taiwanese garment factories is the latest scandal concerning worker treatment in fashion’s supply chain. New abuses keep emerging despite efforts by brands, manufacturers, activists, and governments to set clear labour guidelines. Watchdog groups try new tactics to combat the problem, but they face systemic forces far beyond fashion.

Sustainability editor Sarah Kent joins executive editor Brian Baskin and senior correspondent Sheena Butler-Young to discuss the problematic labour dynamics underpinning the fashion system.

Key Insights:

Persistent abuse in fashion’s supply chains is not merely about isolated incidents but reflects deep-rooted socio-economic challenges. In India’s cotton industry, for example, many farmworkers come from extremely marginalised and impoverished communities where exploitation is a norm rather than an exception. Families often work together under hazardous conditions, with little oversight or recourse. “So you're not just dealing with an issue of exploitation that is coming from the [fashion] industry, you're dealing with a culture that is ingrained in the way that community works – and that is a very difficult, complicated thing to try and manage, ” explains Kent.

Transparency in supply chains remains critical. Despite decades of advocacy, many brands struggle to verify the origins of their cotton. The global cotton supply chain’s complexity—where materials pass through multiple suppliers and traders—makes tracing raw cotton back to its source extremely difficult. “The traders will have been getting the cotton from ginners who will have got raw cotton from … maybe hundreds of thousands of small family farms aggregated it, ginned it, sold it onto a trader who then sells it up through the supply chain. So by the time it even gets to a spinning factory, tracing it back to the farm where it came from is really, really difficult,” says Kent.

In Taiwan’s textile industry, systemic issues like excessive recruitment fees burden migrant workers, yet change is stalling. Despite growing awareness and repeated calls for reform, manufacturers have little incentive to alter longstanding practices without coordinated industry action and regulatory intervention. As Kent notes, “Without other brands operating in Taiwan coming together and trying to do the same thing, the industry as a whole isn't going to move.” And without regulatory shifts, manufacturers have little reason to remove recruitment fee burdens from workers.

Consumer trust in ethical claims is vital for brands that present themselves as responsible. However, when ethical certifications and claims are diluted by inconsistent practices and opaque supply chains, consumers quickly lose faith. This erosion of trust can undermine efforts to promote responsible consumption. “If consumers lose trust in what is meant to be a signifier of doing better, then you risk people not caring at all,” Kent warns. “No one's going to pay more for a product that promises to be more responsible and more ethical when it's when they don't believe that it is.”

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Giles Duley Shares a New Lens on Purpose Feb 21, 2025

Show notes

Giles Duley began his photography career at an enviable pinnacle, shooting for GQ and Vogue and even touring with Oasis. Despite this early success, he found himself unfulfilled by the culture and sought a greater sense of purpose. Over time, his lens shifted from backstage glamour to the frontlines of conflict, where he began documenting the impact of war on ordinary lives. A life-altering moment came in Afghanistan when an IED explosion claimed three of his limbs, yet Duley returned to conflict zones with a renewed commitment to capturing stories of love and resilience.

“There is a connection from where I started to where I am now which is stories and empathy,” he says. “There’s the story, there’s the storyteller, and then there’s the amplifier. And what brands and individuals can do is be those amplifiers to make sure those stories are heard around the world. … I've realised the way I live my best life is to make sure others are living their best life – and that is my purpose.”

Through his Legacy of War Foundation, Giles demonstrates how creativity and empathy can break down barriers, urging each of us to use our own platforms and talents to enact meaningful change.

Key Insights:

Duley documents conflict zones, but he views his work through a radically different lens: “I’m not a war photographer. I photograph love,” he says, highlighting ordinary moments that reveal our shared humanity: “a grandmother brushing her granddaughter’s hair, a mother feeding her baby, a father on the floor doing lessons with his kids.”

Though Duley lost three limbs after stepping on an IED in Afghanistan, he refused to let that trauma define his future. “The next day I woke up and I said, ‘I will never think about the things I can’t do, but I will focus on what I can and I will be the very best at that,’” he recalls, referring to the mantra that has guided him ever since. Duley went on to found an organisation that offers direct support to conflict-affected communities — underscoring his conviction that real change demands both bearing witness and taking action.

Duley has faced enormous challenges in conflict zones and through personal injury, but he insists that creativity can outlast even the harshest setbacks. “As creative people, even in ultimate lockdown, we cannot be stopped,” he says. “Trust me, there is no barrier that can stop you … because creativity is greater than anything else.” This mindset, forged in dire circumstances, drives his commitment to show that imagination can break through the boundaries of physical limitations and societal constraints alike.

Duley dedicates himself to telling the stories of conflict-affected communities, yet he believes the real impact comes from those who amplify these narratives. “There’s the story, there’s the storyteller, and then there’s the amplifier. What brands and individuals can do is be those amplifiers to make sure those stories are heard around the world,” he says. As for his own driving force, Duley affirms, “The way I live my best life is to make sure others are living their best life. And that is my purpose.”

Additional Resources:

BoF VOICES 2024: The Power of Purpose

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Can Kering Fix Gucci? Feb 18, 2025

Show notes

Gucci has long been the shining star of Kering’s luxury portfolio, but the brand's recent struggles have exposed weaknesses in the conglomerate’s position. Gucci’s sales plummeted 24 percent in the fourth quarter of 2024, dragging Kering’s overall performance down by 12 percent. The shock departure of Creative Director Sabato De Sarno after less than two years only deepens the group’s instability.

Luxury editor Robert Williams joins executive editor Brian Baskin and senior correspondent Sheena Butler-Young to discuss how Gucci’s downturn is affecting Kering’s broader portfolio, why its attempt at a creative reset didn’t resonate, and what’s next for the group as it searches for a new vision.

Key Insights:

Gucci's downturn has been severe, with sales falling by almost a quarter in 2024. This dramatic slide highlights the challenge of reinvigorating the brand. “[Gucci] has had a few really big booms, but then also some pretty big busts afterward. That creates additional complications for the group and how much they're able to invest in acquiring new brands, in developing the brands they have. And honestly, to also just continue to exist,” says Williams.

Gucci’s identity has become muddled as it leans too heavily on its heritage, potentially limiting its appeal. “Gucci can stand for a lot of things and I think that's where they got a bit confused. It's the biggest Italian luxury brand and maybe they started to think that it was more of a heritage house than it should be,” Williams explains.

Williams outlines a protective strategy where the group is preemptively selling off valuable real estate. He cites the sale of luxury jewellery house Boucheron headquarters and flagship store on Place Vendôme, stating, "choosing to cash in on the fact that this building is worth a lot of money is a bit worrying that they feel the need to get that treasury right now."

Gucci’s potential for a rapid rebound hinges on securing the right creative leadership to tell a compelling story of the brand and leveraging its extensive assets. “I think real potential for the rebound is there if they can get the right person in place just to tell a very convincing fashion story. It can go very high, very fast again,” Williams says. “They have a lot of real estate, they have a lot of stores in great locations and they have a whole supply chain behind them that's really like rooting for their comeback because it's the biggest client for so many suppliers in the Italian fashion system.”

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Es Devlin and Ekow Eshun on Belonging, Otherness and Identity Feb 14, 2025

Show notes

In an intimate conversation at BoF VOICES 2024, artist and stage designer Es Devlin and writer and cultural curator Ekow Eshun discuss the transformative potential of human connection.

Emerging from a desire to confront her own biases, Devlin’s “Congregation” project invited 50 Londoners from immigrant backgrounds to be drawn and displayed inside St. Mary le Strand church in London. Eshun’s new book, “The Strangers”, likewise interrogates racial identity and belonging through the stories of five Black men spanning centuries and continents.

“I'm not the same person at all,” says Devlin, reflecting on her experience. “I'm a bit more raw as a consequence of writing [The Strangers] because … you have to open yourself up to pain and fraughtness,” adds Eshun.

Devlin and Eshun investigate how “otherness” shapes our sense of belonging and argue that true understanding requires a radical willingness to open ourselves to one another — and, in the process, rediscover parts of ourselves.

Key Insights:

For Devlin, bridging cultural divides begins with a fearless self-examination: “I wanted to encounter my own racism, my own bias, my own separation.” Considering how certain immigrants are welcomed while others are rejected, she admits, “If it's at work in my community, it must be at work in me. It must be work in my very person. Whether I think it is or not, I must encounter it.”

Creative inquiry can be a path to self-discovery. “Almost any creative exercise in the end becomes about one trying to meet what’s inside you," Eshun explains. "It's easy enough to say, 'We're all one interconnected species.' But to do that, you have to put in some work along the way. That work is self-revelatory, but it's also a work of active imagination and broad empathy."

For Eshun, genuine unity demands more than rhetoric—it requires a purposeful willingness to understand and embrace our differences. “It's easy enough to say, we're all one people, … but to do that, you have to do some work along the way. That work is a self revelatory work, but it's also a work of active imagination. It's also a work of broad empathy. It's also a presumption of intimacy or connection, which I think is sometimes hard to get to.”

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Can Estée Lauder Win Over the Modern Beauty Consumer? Feb 11, 2025

Show notes

Estée Lauder was long celebrated as a pioneer in prestige beauty, building a global empire on the strength of family legacy, innovative product lines, smart acquisitions and a high-touch in-store experience. However in recent years, the company has lost its wat on each of those strategies, leaving it poorly equipped to stay on top of rapidly shifting consumer tastes.

In its latest earnings call, new CEO Stéphane de La Faverie candidly acknowledged that the company had “lost its agility,” and promised to quickly implement an ambitious modernisation plan. The Debrief explores how Estée Lauder’s legacy is now proving to be a burden, and how it can still overcome its challenges.

Key Insights:

Holding around 86% of the voting rights, Estée Lauder’s tight family control helped maintain a tight focus on prestige beauty, but has contributed to a risk-averse culture that caused the company to miss out on important trends. “A lot of their beliefs are around beauty being a prestige category and a prestige experience and that being the way to win,” says Morosini. “That message in the wider beauty consumer base has been diluted a little bit. People are much more open to shopping for products in different ways and from different kinds of founders. They didn't really let go of their values.”

Estée Lauder also made a big bet on China, at one point deriving 25 percent of its sales from the market. However, when demand cooled post-COVID, it exposed weaknesses in its home market strategy. "Not only did the China business really, really sharply decline, but when the Chinese market took a really big hit, it exposed just how much they had neglected their home market of the US and just how much market share they had ceded without anyone really realising,” says Morosini.

The company’s new CEO, Stéphane de La Faverie, is spearheading a major strategic overhaul with his "Beauty Reimagined" plan. This vision aims to reinvigorate the brand by streamlining the corporate structure, tripling the pace of innovation, and placing an obsessive focus on the consumer. "They've created more of a skincare brand cluster, a makeup brand cluster, and they've also really simplified the geographic way that they're dividing up the markets and who's overseeing them. I think that could lead to greater agility and better sort of more targeted marketing for each region," says Morosini.

Estée Lauder’s model of fuelling growth through brand acquisitions is increasingly unsustainable in today’s volatile market. The company's ability to innovate and adapt has been hampered by heightened domestic competition and an unpredictable economic climate. "I think as time has gone on, it's just got harder and harder because the competition, especially in the US in their domestic market has really, really ramped up. And they don't seem able to accurately forecast what's gonna happen next,” says Morosini. “It's really hard to convince people that something that's been around for a long time is actually cool."

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Why India Will Not Be The Next China for Luxury Feb 07, 2025

Show notes

“Will India be the next China?” is a question that’s circulated throughout the fashion industry for years. Even as its population and economy both surge, India’s cultural tapestry and fragmented retail landscape set it apart from its northern neighbour.

At BoF VOICES 2024, Ravi Thakran drew on his experiences pioneering luxury growth for Swatch in 1990s China and leadership of LVMH in Asia to share his unique insights on the many differences between the world’s two most populous countries, and why European luxury brands have not yet managed to really crack the Indian market.

“India is now across China and growing faster. But when it comes to the luxury market — talk of any brand, be it Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Louis Vuitton, Cartier — India is less than 1%,” says Thakran. “India's stupendous growth is right in front of us, but the bulk of that growth is led by a very young population with a very low per capita income. So if you are an aspirational player, go to India today. This will be your biggest play going forward. In luxury, you still have to work.”

Thakran unpacks the dynamics of economic growth in India, explains why its path won’t mirror China’s, and shares insights on how to succeed in one of the world’s most complex yet promising markets.

Key Insights:

From garments to accessories, Asia has scaled production to supply most of the global market. Simultaneously, it’s also the top consumer region for many categories, making Asia pivotal in both supply and demand equations. Despite this, its share of value in these categories remains low: “Asia is now the largest market of the world and across [garments, accessories and watches], more than 50%. … How come its share of value in these categories is so low?” queries Thakran. “Value resides in brands. And where do these brands live? The brands today for these categories are still in Europe and the USA.”

While India’s market is huge, it is fragmented and complex. Challenges for fashion brands include high import duties, limited retail infrastructure and a deeply rooted tradition of local attire. Western brands need to adapt to India’s cultural context if they hope to gain traction. “LVMH is not a luxury enough for India. … Indian luxury will always remain very Indian. Unless you Indianise, you're unlikely to crack that market,” says Thakran.

Drawing on teachings from Buddah and Gandhi, Ravi underscores that Asia’s rising wealth need not translate into mindless consumption. Gandhi’s simple lifestyle and the Buddha’s teachings on desires offer a philosophical counterbalance that resonates in today’s sustainability-conscious world. “While we are trying to make India adapt to the West, I think there is a message for the West to adopt from India," says Thakran.

Additional Resources:

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Fashion’s M&A Market is Heating Up Feb 04, 2025

Show notes

After a prolonged slowdown, fashion’s M&A market is springing back to life. A combination of falling interest rates, shifting investor sentiment and optimism around economic policy has fuelled a wave of early 2025 deals. Within the first few weeks of the year, brands like True Religion and Kapital were acquired by private equity firms and holding companies, signalling renewed confidence in fashion investments.

However, not all acquisitions are about aggressive growth. Some buyers specialise in “managed decline,” acquiring struggling brands to extend their lifespan through licensing or cost-cutting. Others, including private equity firms and strategic buyers, see opportunities to scale promising brands by injecting capital and expertise.

“The key for a lot of these companies in finding buyers is proving that their brands are still worth it and can weather these economic cycles and lulls in the market,” shared e-commerce correspondent Malique Morris.

Executive editor Brian Baskin and senior correspondent Sheena Butler-Young sat down with Morris to break down the latest deals, the brands poised for sale, and what it all means for fashion in 2025 and beyond.

Key Insights:

A number of converging factors are driving a new wave of fashion mergers and acquisitions in 2025. Falling interest rates, Trump’s re-election driving investor optimism, and shifting regulations have all played a part in fuelling new acquisitions. “Retailers reported strong holiday sales in 2024, and even though much of that was driven by discounting, it signalled that consumers were still spending,” says Morris. “That kind of activity gives investors more confidence in backing fashion businesses.”

Buyers are looking for brands with strong customer loyalty, an engaged audience, and clear growth potential that can weather the ebb and flow of the market. Brands need “good stewards to help them find the best resources to expand without hurting their legacy, whether that be money, retail networks, or supplier relationships,” explains Morris. “It's important to have the resources you need to maintain relevance and compete for consumer attention.”

Beauty remains a hotbed for M&A activity. “Unlike fashion, beauty hasn’t faced the same investor hesitancy,” says Morris. “Brands like Merit, Westman Atelier, and Makeup by Mario are seen as prime acquisition targets, while Rare Beauty could be the defining beauty deal of the decade.”

Overall, buyers are prioritising brands with strong customer loyalty and cultural relevance. “They're seeking brands with ample customer loyalty and a passionate consumer base that will keep their names in the public consciousness, irrespective of what recent sales growth will look like,” says Morris. He adds, “The thing that is top of mind is, what is the value of your brand? That’s an honest conversation that I’m not sure all companies have with themselves, let alone with buyers.”

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The Luxury Crisis, Explained Jan 31, 2025

Show notes

In a special episode, BoF founder and editor-in-chief Imran Amed joins Bob Safian on The Rapid Response podcast.

“This is probably the most severe crisis that I've seen in the luxury side of the fashion industry since the Great Recession of 2008,” says Amed. “The business model and approach that the luxury industry has been using for the last decade or so is running out of steam.”

In their conversation, Amed and Safian discuss the cracks in the current luxury formula, the untapped potential in older demographics, and how brand and product innovation have the potential to revive the sector.

Key Insights:

Amed warns that the go-to strategies for luxury brands, such as over-expansion and relentless price hikes, are no longer sustainable. He highlights how the slowdown in Chinese consumer spending and a sharp drop in aspirational buyers who “gorged on luxury products during the pandemic” are exposing the cracks in this long-established playbook.

While the industry has long speculated on whether India might be ‘the next China,’ Amed believes real growth is finally within reach. Thanks to a flourishing middle class, improved retail infrastructure and widespread mobile internet, international brands are eyeing India’s vast consumer base with renewed interest. However, success demands culturally informed approaches: “The smart brands are going to really find the right talent, Indian local talent, and empower those leaders,” says Amed. “The Indian market is on the precipice of something really big but it’s not going to be easy.”

Amed acknowledges the widespread but often discreet adoption of artificial intelligence: “I think as with a lot of things AI, everybody’s using it, but not everyone’s talking about how they’re using it,” he said. However, he cautions that “to create something really, genuinely novel, interesting, disruptive, creative, and beautiful, a human has to be involved,” reminding brands that while AI can accelerate ideation, authentic creative vision remains the domain of designers themselves.

Amed believes the current turbulence will drive fashion leaders to rethink their strategies: “What’s exciting about a time like this is it forces companies to innovate because the market isn’t growing super fast anymore,” he said. He explains that to thrive under tougher conditions, businesses “have to take market share from someone else,” meaning it is no longer enough to repackage old ideas. Pointing to brands like Miu Miu and Brunello Cucinelli, which are still achieving significant growth, Amed sees promise in those who offer “something different and special,” rather than relying on the template approach that has dominated fashion in recent years.

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How to Future-Proof Your Fashion Career in 2025 Jan 28, 2025

Show notes

The fashion workplace is evolving, shaped by a wave of technological advancements, leadership changes, and cultural dynamics. For many employees, adapting to these changes has become a challenge, while employers must navigate how to foster connection, retain talent, and drive innovation.

Executive editor Brian Baskin sits with commercial features editorial director Sophie Soar and senior correspondent Sheena Butler-Young to unpack how businesses can create thriving workplaces in 2025, the role of soft skills in a tech-driven era, and what it takes to re-engage an increasingly disconnected workforce.

“In the face of AI and more technology coming in, it is more important to have a human element. What does a human do well? That’s why soft skills are a huge focus,” says Butler-Young. Meanwhile, Soar highlights the growing challenges of employee disengagement, stating, “We are incredibly disengaged as a workforce. Trying to get employees to buy back into what they’re doing and be part of the workplace is going to be really challenging.”

Key Insights:

The turnover of leadership in fashion is reshaping workplace dynamics. “New leadership means change, even if they're using the same playbook,” explains Butler-Young. “Having someone new at the top of your company tends to affect morale for better or worse, or just makes people feel uncertain.” She adds, “Fashion workplaces are in this perpetual transition this year, which will inevitably shape culture.”

In the wake of President Donald Trump’s executive orders targeting corporate DEI programmes, successful DEI strategies in 2025 will integrate horizontally across all business functions, rather than thinking about it as a vertical. “If something is horizontally integrated across the business and is a fundamental aspect of every single core pillar that this business touches upon, it's harder to roll back on those initiatives as a result,” says Soar. Butler-Young adds, “If you as a leader of any kind of organisation appear to flip-flop on your values based on the way the political winds blow, I think that's going to have a harmful effect on your workplace in the long term.”

As AI becomes more prevalent, employers are placing greater emphasis on human-centric skills. “In the face of AI and more technology coming in, it is more important to have a human element to it. What does a human do really well? That’s why soft skills are a huge focus,” says Butler-Young. Soar adds, “It’s about engaging a workforce who are constantly striving to think about how they can take this particular tool or opportunity to the next stage and do so with that can-do, positive approach and attitude.”

The impact of the attention economy has spread into our work lives. “We are incredibly disengaged as a workforce,” says Soar. “Trying to get employees to buy back into what it is that they're doing and be a part of the workplace is going to be really challenging, especially as they're navigating a hybrid or remote working environment.” Employers, Soar argues, need to address this to optimise their workforce for the future: “It is fundamentally changing the way that we are operating as people as well as employees.”

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