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    Government

    Talking Michigan Transportation

    The Talking Michigan Transportation podcast features conversations with transportation experts inside and outside MDOT and will touch on anything and everything related to mobility, including rail, transit and the development of connected and automated vehicles.

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    Copyright: © 2026 Talking Michigan Transportation

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    Latest Episodes:
    The science and research behind speed limits and why we are seeing more roundabouts Dec 11, 2019
    Show notes

    The guest: Dr. Timothy Gates, professor of highway design and traffic engineering at Michigan State University.
    https://www.egr.msu.edu/people/profile/gatestim
    Topics include:
    — Why we have speed limits and the history behind them in America.
    https://blog.americansafetycouncil.com/the-history-of-speed-limits-in-america/
    — Some argue we could go without speed limits and drivers would self-regulate. Those people always cite the autobahn, including a lawmaker in California earlier this year.
    https://blog.americansafetycouncil.com/the-history-of-speed-limits-in-america/
    — Speed limits on some Michigan freeways increased to 75 mph in 2017 based on requirements adopted by the Legislature. But some critics cite data that shows that the trend toward hiking speed limits has resulted in 37,000 additional deaths since 1993. Charles Farmer, vice president for research and statistical services for the Insurance Institute of Highway Safety (IIHS), says too many people think about the few minutes they're saving by speeding but not about the risk.
    https://www.michiganradio.org/post/speed-limit-increases-1993-have-killed-37000-additional-people
    — Why officials in Oregon decided to roll back speed limits after some severe crashes in eastern Oregon.
    https://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/news/crime/2016/06/08/state-roll-back-speed-limit-increases-eastern-oregon/85592384/
    — What research tells us about roundabouts, and why they make sense. Dr. Gates was part of a team studying how to educate the public on safely navigating roundabouts.
    https://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdot/MDOT_Research_Report_RC1542_Part1_354968_7.pdf


    The Michigan Council on Future Mobility, driverless cars, toll roads and electric vehicle charging Dec 06, 2019
    Show notes

    The guest is John Peracchio, chairman of the Michigan Council on Future Mobility, who shares insights on the Council’s work.
    https://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0,4616,7-151-9623_31969_93141---,00.html
    Topics include:
    — The mission of the Council on Future Mobility and why the Legislature created the body in 2016.
    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(o3mmuho4hf5b4b1ydjjfhhaa))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-257-665
    — Connected and automated vehicles. What the future holds. Between polling in 2018 and again in early 2019, Epic-MRA saw a slight shift in people’s perceptions of automated vehicles. There is a pronounced generational divide on the topic, with elderly people being much more averse despite the view of many that automated vehicles will bring mobility and independence later in life.
    https://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdot/2019_MDOT_Self-drivingCars_EpicPoll_669727_7.pdf
    https://www.theseniorlist.com/blog/driverless-cars-for-seniors/
    — Mobility for all imperative. Michigan has one of the oldest populations among the 50 states, with 16 percent of residents age 65 or older. Automakers in Michigan lead in developing technology that will give these people mobility option and extended freedom. https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-us-states-with-the-oldest-population.html
    https://www.mlive.com/news/2018/01/aging_michigan_senior_citizens.html
    — Toll roads. As a bill authorizing a study of tolling some Michigan roads makes its way to the Senate floor, John, a recent member of the International Bridge, Tunnel, and Turnpike Association (IBTTA), talks about the feasibility of tolling in Michigan and methods to confront social equity challenges.
    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2019-2020/billanalysis/Senate/pdf/2019-SFA-0517-F.pdf
    — With automakers investing more in electric vehicle technology, John talks about the need for broader charging infrastructure and addressing challenges, including range anxiety and vehicle costs. And questions persist about the disposal of batteries and the impact on the environment. By 2040, more than half of new-car sales and a third of the global fleet (equal to 559 million vehicles) is projected to be electric.
    https://www.thedrive.com/news/26637/americans-cite-range-anxiety-cost-as-largest-barriers-for-new-ev-purchases-study
    https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/renewable/the-afterlife-of-electric-vehicles-battery-recycling-and-repurposing/


    How MDOT tackles winter Nov 21, 2019
    Show notes

    On this week’s Talking Michigan Transportation podcast, a conversation with Mark Geib, MDOT engineer of operations and the head of maintenance - meaning, he oversees statewide efforts to clear snow and keep state highways passable.
    Mark talks about innovations in clearing snow and ice and practices adopted by MDOT where winter maintenance officials are always looking for ways to stretch taxpayer dollars by making salt go farther, which also provides environmental benefits.
    We’ve come a long way in snow plowing since the 1930s. A few years ago, MDOT received this 1930s-era newsreel from sisters Nancy and Barbara Sleeper of Newberry, whose grandfather, Sanborn Sleeper, was the superintendent of the Luce County Road Commission from 1928 until sometime around World War II. The Sleepers donated the film to MDOT for public display. The film offers a glimpse of the era when Murray Van Wagoner, a future Michigan governor, ran the department from 1933 to 1940.
    A perennial question during winter storms is why more salt is not being used. Mark explains how temperatures determine when salt is used and when it can be effective.
    A bill in the state Legislature would encourage MDOT to use “organic additives” (such as sugar-beet by-products) to reduce use of road salt and seeks testing at some water crossings.
    Other innovations discussed include the tow plow, introduced by MDOT in 2013 to increase efficiency and plow more lanes in fewer hours.
    Links
    - Innovations in clearing snow and ice:
    https://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/2018/12/31/road-salt-worth-bad-environment/2356069002/
    - 1930s-era newsreel:
    https://youtu.be/NH20lpFu_3Q
    - When salt is used:
    https://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdot/MDOT_Salt_Cure_258508_7.pdf
    - Organic additives bill:
    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2019-2020/billanalysis/Senate/pdf/2019-SFA-0379-A.pdf
    - Tow plow:
    https://youtu.be/PIp04N6pLvw


    Discussion about legislation to study tolling in Michigan Nov 15, 2019
    Show notes

    On this week’s episode of Talking Michigan Transportation, Jeff talks with MDOT senior policy analyst Aarne Frobom about legislation voted out of a Michigan Senate committee to require a study of tolling some Michigan routes.
    Read the Senate Fiscal analysis of the bill.
    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2019-2020/billanalysis/Senate/pdf/2019-SFA-0517-F.pdf
    Frobom observes that in Michigan, we now pay a toll equivalent of 2.7 cents per mile we drive in fuel taxes and vehicle registration fees, and that would need to be twice as much to maintain our current system of roads and bridges.
    From the Reason Foundation, the case for tolling
    https://reason.org/wp-content/uploads/files/congress_states_highway_tolling_flexibility.pdf
    An excerpt: Tolling opponents misrepresent this approach as “erecting toll booths on the Interstate.” That is wrong for two reasons. First, it implies simply charging more to use the same worn-out, inadequate lanes (which is illegal under the terms of the Pilot Program). Second, it calls to mind obsolete 20th century toll booths, when what innovative states are proposing is 21st century all-electronic tolling, with all tolling being done either via transponders (like E-ZPass in the northeast and Midwest, SunPass in Florida, and FasTrak in California) or via license-plate billing.
    And from the Alliance for Toll-Free Interstates, the case against tolling, outlined recently in a statement on efforts in Connecticut: https://www.tollfreeinterstates.com/news/atfi-statement-misguided-connecticut-tolls-push-undermines-governor%E2%80%99s-new-transportation-plan
    “We appreciate efforts to resolve the state’s transportation problems and that the Governor has scaled back the use of tolls in his new plan. However, we remain dejected at Governor Lamont’s press for wasteful tolling bureaucracies when there are more common-sense transportation funding methods that do not carry a long list of negative impacts the way tolls do.”
    Links to topics discussed
    Senate Bill 517
    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2019-2020/billintroduced/Senate/pdf/2019-SIB-0517.pdf

    Senate fiscal analysis
    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2019-2020/billanalysis/Senate/pdf/2019-SFA-0517-F.pdf
    Reason Foundation
    https://reason.org/wp-content/uploads/files/congress_states_highway_tolling_flexibility.pdf


    Why we say "crash" and not "accident" Nov 07, 2019
    Show notes

    On this week’s Talking Michigan Transportation podcast, Jeff talks about the reason safety experts insist on the term “crash” instead of “accident.” His guest is Lloyd Brown, director of communications at the American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials (AASHTO), who has been advocating on the issue since his days at the Washington State Department of Transportation two decades ago. He wrote about the issue in his blog after MDOT produced a video on the topic.
    Later, they discuss the results of a number of transportation ballot issues decided Tuesday in cities and states across the country.
    - For Transportation Safety, Words Matter: ‘Crash,’ not ‘Accident’
    https://talkingtransportation.wordpress.com/2019/10/30/for-transportation-safety-words-matter-crash-not-accident/
    - Crash, Not Accident
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_dqA9kl6JA&feature=youtu.be
    Crash not accident
    Before the Associated Press issued a style change for terms describing transportation collisions, a 2015 Vox column covered the evolution and history of the terms, observing that we don’t say "plane accident." We shouldn’t say "car accident" either.
    Yet, the CEO at Boeing did just that in his Oct. 29 Congressional testimony.
    The background also includes how jaywalking became something worthy of citations from law enforcement. As Vox explains, "At the time, the word 'jay' meant something like rube or hick - a person who didn't know how to behave in a city. So these groups promoted use of the word jay walker as a way to shame people who didn't obey traffic laws."
    - Associated Press Cautions Journalists That Crashes Aren’t Always “Accidents”
    https://usa.streetsblog.org/2016/04/04/associated-press-cautions-journalists-that-crashes-arent-always-accidents/
    - We don’t say “plane accident.” We shouldn’t say “car accident” either.
    https://www.vox.com/2015/7/20/8995151/crash-not-accident
    - Boeing CEO: These heartbreaking accidents are now part of our legacy
    https://video.foxbusiness.com/v/6098765042001/#sp=show-clips
    - Jaywalkers, Jayhawkers, Jay-Towns and Jays – a Pedestrian History and Etymology of “Jaywalking”
    https://esnpc.blogspot.com/2014/11/jaywalkers-and-jayhawkers-pedestrian.html
    Transportation on the ballot
    Jeff and Lloyd also talk about transportation ballot issues across the country and how they fared Tuesday. Especially of interest were the results in the state of Washington and the vote in Denver where Mayor Michael Hancock has committed to doubling the share of trips taken by foot, bike, bus, and train by 2030 while reducing solo driving drips to 50 percent.
    Voters also approved measures in the state of Maine and cities of Houston, Albuquerque, Cincinnati, and Springfield, MO.
    - Washington voters favoring Tim Eyman’s I-976 to slash car-tab fees in Tuesday’s election results
    https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/election-results-2019-initiative-976-car-tab-fees-taxes-tim-eyman-washington-state/
    - Denver voters give the city its own transportation department


    Work zone safety Nov 01, 2019
    Show notes

    In the wake of two recent road worker deaths in Michigan, Jeff talks with two people with expertise and personal experience in work zone issues:
    - Lindsey Renner, supervisor of MDOT’s work zone safety section; and
    - Craig Innis, an MDOT construction engineer injured while working on a project near Flint in 2016.
    The fallen road workers include MDOT maintenance worker Kevin White, 48, who was clearing large debris from the shoulder of I-94 in Berrien County Oct. 23 when a passing truck lost tires and one of them struck him. The other, Barry Hause, 54, was an employee of Charlotte-based C&D Hughes. He died from injuries sustained when a car drove into a work zone late at night on Sept. 23 and struck him while he was repairing concrete on I-96 near Portland.
    Both men left behind daughters in college and a host of other loved ones.
    Lindsey talks about efforts in Michigan and across the nation to raise awareness of the risk involved in working in, and driving through, road work zones.
    MDOT mourns lost road workers, reminds everyone about work zone safety
    https://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0,4616,7-151-9620_11057-510931--,00.html
    The Zipper Merge (13:25)
    In his 2008 book “Traffic,” author Tom Vanderbilt extolled the virtues of late merging. The public has been slow to adapt but studies and data support his premise. Known as the zipper merge, it is among innovations to enhance safety and improve the flow of traffic in work zones. The concept has shown success in other states and been piloted in west Michigan. Minnesota DOT officials have been trying to educate the public about the benefits for years and some believe "Minnesota nice" makes it difficult to adapt.
    Tom Vanderbilt: Why I Became a Late Merger (and Why You Should Too)
    http://tomvanderbilt.com/books/traffic/excerpt/
    Don't be a roadblock: MDOT explains 'zipper merge'
    http://tomvanderbilt.com/books/traffic/excerpt/
    Nice Minnesotans Don't Get the Cruelly Efficient Zipper Merge
    https://www.wired.com/2016/06/nice-minnesotans-dont-get-cruelly-efficient-zipper-merge/
    One Step From Death (18:42)
    MDOT construction engineer Craig Innis comes on the podcast to share the dramatic story of how he narrowly escaped serious injury when a vehicle crashed where he was working along I-69 in Flint in 2016.
    Craig's story
    https://www.michigan.gov/workzonesafety/0,9411,7-390-93570---,00.html


    Jeff interviews veteran Michigan pollster Bernie Porn, president of Epic-MRA. Oct 24, 2019
    Show notes

    On this week’s Talking Michigan Transportation podcast, Jeff interviews veteran Michigan pollster Bernie Porn, president of Epic-MRA. Topics include the public comfort level with automated vehicle technology, polling on road funding solutions in Michigan and alternatives, and the recent discussion about revising Michigan’s legislative term limit law:
    — As Michigan automotive and technology industries, government agencies and academia continue to collaborate and lead on the public policy to support development of automated vehicles, public perception is evolving.
    https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/mobility/2019/09/12/michigan-self-driving-car-testing-programs-get-major-federal-grant/2290311001/
    Between polling in 2018 and again in early 2019, Epic-MRA saw a slight shift in people’s perceptions of automated vehicles.
    https://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdot/2019_MDOT_Self-drivingCars_EpicPoll_669727_7.pdf
    There is a pronounced generational divide on the topic, with elderly people being much more averse despite the view of many that automated vehicles will bring mobility and independence later in life.
    Driverless Cars for Seniors: Will it improve quality of life?
    https://www.theseniorlist.com/blog/driverless-cars-for-seniors/
    — Views on tolling and vehicle miles traveled. An Epic-MRA poll in Michigan in August found 42 percent favor some degree of tolling while 49 percent oppose.
    https://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdot/MDOT_Fees_EpicPoll_669728_7.pdf
    A question about assessing a fee based on miles traveled found 33 percent in favor while 57 percent oppose. Still, some states are piloting vehicle miles traveled (VMT) programs as others conclude that people are driving more miles but consuming fewer gallons of fuel.
    State moves closer to decision on phasing out the gas tax | Tacoma News Tribune
    https://www-1.thenewstribune.com/news/local/article232744457.html

    — How might a change to Michigan’s term limit law affect the ongoing debate about restoring Michigan roads?
    Anti-gerrymandering group may team with Michigan GOP to tackle term limits | Bridge Magazine
    https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-government/anti-gerrymandering-group-may-team-gop-tackle-term-limits


    Ken Sikkema and Bob Emerson have a plan to solve Michigan's transportation funding crisis. Oct 17, 2019
    Show notes

    On the latest edition of Talking Michigan Transportation, Jeff talks with former Michigan legislative leaders Ken Sikkema and Bob Emerson about a bold bipartisan plan they offered to solve Michigan’s decades-long transportation funding crisis.
    https://dehayf5mhw1h7.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/sites/757/2019/01/31110650/MichiganConsensusPolicyRoadFundingProposal.pdf
    Sikkema, a Republican, served as Michigan Senate majority leader from 2003 through 2006, and Emerson, a Democrat, served as budget director from 2007 through 2010 under Gov. Jennifer Granholm. Emerson also served as Michigan Senate minority leader from 2003 through 2006. Emerson and Sikkema co-chaired the Michigan Consensus Policy Project, which in January proposed raising the state’s tax on gasoline and diesel fuel by 47 cents over nine years.
    Many research studies informed their recommendations, including reports from the Citizens Research Council and the 21st Century Infrastructure Commission, a non-partisan group that identified Michigan’s need for investment in roads at $2.6 billion, a number already obsolete because of the continuing deterioration of roads and bridges.
    https://www.michigan.gov/documents/snyder/21st_Century_Infrastructure_Commission_Final_Report_1_544276_7.pdf
    Emerson and Sikkema’s group also explored other ideas to raise the revenue but found broad agreement on the traditional fuel tax because of the difficulty in a transition to other road-funding mechanisms.
    One idea discussed includes a vehicle miles traveled (VMT) fee. That concept has been piloted in other states and most recently gained traction in Washington state.
    The Washington Transportation Commission will review a report from a panel that studied a pay-by-mile system that could replace the gas tax.
    https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/state-transportation-commission-reviewing-report-on-pay-by-mile-tax/997659364
    Myths about gas tax hikes in Michigan:
    https://www.michigan.gov/documents/mdot/MDOT_Chart-GasTaxIncreaseTMTPodcast_668919_7.pdf


    MDOT's Ryan Mitchell Visits to talk about the Soo Locks and Innovative Contracting Oct 11, 2019
    Show notes

    On the latest episode of the Talking Michigan Transportation podcast, Jeff talks with Ryan Mitchell, manager of MDOT’s Innovative Contracting Unit.
    Topics include:
    Ryan’s work on financing for the much-needed additional lock at the Soo Locks, operated and maintained by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, Detroit District. This is the district’s largest project, located on the St. Marys River in Sault Ste. Marie, Mich., on the international border with Canada. Approximately 80 million tons of commercial commodities pass through the Soo Locks annually.
    https://www.lre.usace.army.mil/Missions/Recreation/Soo-Locks-Visitor-Center/Soo-Locks-History/
    — MDOT’s first successful public-private partnership (P3), helping to restore freeway lights in Metro Detroit.
    https://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0,4616,7-151--433009--,00.html
    — The modernization of I-75 in Oakland County, north of Detroit, and the use of a P3 for a key segment.
    https://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20170924/news/640086/i-75-will-be-states-largest-public-private-transportation-project


    A visit from former MDOT chief policy analyst, Polly Kent Oct 02, 2019
    Show notes

    On the latest edition of the Talking Michigan Transportation podcast, Jeff talks with Polly Kent, who retired earlier this year as MDOT’s chief policy analyst. As administrator of the department’s intermodal policy and asset management division, Polly provided analysis on transportation funding to several administrations. She talks about the decades-long debate about a sustainable funding source for transportation infrastructure in Michigan, including her role in providing data that informed Gov. Whitmer’s Fixing Michigan Roads Fund proposal.
    Other topics:
    Fixing Michigan Roads Fund
    https://www.michigan.gov/mdot/0,4616,7-151-9620_91685---,00.html
    Cost of highway trust fund insolvency
    https://www.enotrans.org/article/cbo-updates-10-year-cost-of-htf-solvency-to-176-billion/
    The myth that Michigan is a donor state and could draw more federal funds for roads
    http://on.freep.com/1D1F2Xr
    US Chamber pushes a federal infrastructure bill
    https://www.ttnews.com/articles/infrastructure-bill-possible-trump-congressional-leadership-chamber-says
    Regressive thinking: devolving highway funding to states
    https://www.ttnews.com/articles/heritage-foundation-endorses-devolution-fund-highway-projects
    21st Century Infrastructure Commission
    https://www.michigan.gov/documents/snyder/21st_Century_Infrastructure_Commission_Final_Report_1_544276_7.pdf


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