Talkin‘ Politics & Religion Without Killin‘ Each Other

Latest Episodes:

Dr. Beth Allison Barr on Women, Power, and the Pastor’s Wife Problem in Evangelicalism Sep 23, 2025

Show notes

What if the role of “pastor’s wife” wasn’t biblical at all, but a cultural invention that sidelined women from ministry? Dr. Beth Allison Barr pulls back the curtain on how power, patriarchy, and politics shaped Evangelical churches—and why reclaiming women’s voices could change everything.

Episode Summary

So glad to sit down with Dr. Beth Allison Barr—medievalist, church historian, and author of The Making of Biblical Womanhood and Becoming the Pastor’s Wife—for a candid conversation about faith, history, evangelical subcultures, and women’s leadership in the church. Beth traces how the modern “pastor’s wife” role emerged alongside the decline of women’s ordination, shows how women have always done pastoral work, and offers grounded, hope-filled ways to talk across differences in a volatile moment.

📣 Calls to Action:

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✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

Timestamps

00:00 — Introductions & context. Beth’s scholarship, books, UK ties; growing up in a Bible-saturated town and how her kids encountered questions of faith earlier than she did.
05:00 — Faith in action vs. attendance. Story of her son choosing hands-on ministry with Mission Waco / Church Under the Bridge and serving the unhoused.
08:00 — History’s ballast in turbulent times. Democracy’s fragility, finding joy, and why she stays to “fight for a country I believe in.”
16:45 — Responding to political violence. Grieving a public figure’s death, fearing the blame game, and the dangers of escalation.
24:00 — Media myths & “those people.” How conspiratorial frames dehumanize.
25:00 — Dobson, MacArthur & evangelical father-figures. The guru dynamic, platformed authority, and downstream damage.
29:00 — Why this book. From Making of Biblical Womanhood to the historical link between pastor’s wives and the decline of women’s ordination.
32:00 — “There are no male pastors in the Bible either.” Pastor as a modern construct; early church roles were gifts and functions, not a job title.
36:30 — Phoebe, Junia & collaborative authorship. The first named deacon tied to a local church is a woman; letters emerged from communities.
41:00 — Power & gatekeeping. Why certain leaders resist change; SBC moments like cutting Rick Warren’s mic.
46:30 — Handling pushback graciously. Ask questions, surface assumptions, adjust tone by relationship.
50:00 — The economics of titles. Same work, different labels → less power and pay; survey showing ~80% of women in official church roles are part-time or unpaid.
53:00 — Does “biblical authority” really forbid women leading? On misusing a few verses vs. the witness of the whole Bible.
57:00 — That cover art 👀. Catherine of Alexandria—the patron saint of preachers—casts a telling shadow.
58:00 — The TP&R Question. See the image of God in each person; start from shared humanity when conversations get heated.
01:01:00 — What’s next. A “freeing” medieval project taking shape.

“There are no female pastors in the Bible? There are no male pastors in the Bible either… what we see are people serving in a variety of functions.”

Key Takeaways

“Pastor” is a gift before it’s a job. In the New Testament it points to shepherding, not a fixed office; early churches named teachers, apostles, deacons—roles women also filled (e.g., Phoebe).
Same work, different label. Churches often call women’s pastoral work something else—reducing power and pay. Structural choices, not Scripture, drive much of the disparity.
Power protects itself. Resistance to women’s leadership is frequently about protecting positions and rhetoric, not about biblical fidelity.
How to engage across differences. Begin with imago Dei; remember hurt often fuels hostility; ask questions that surface assumptions; adjust posture to the relationship.

Memorable Quotes

“A text without a context is a pretext to say whatever you want.”
“Women have done everything men did in the early church—we just renamed their work.”
“See the image of God before you see a label.”

Resources & Mentions

Books:
- Becoming the Pastor’s Wife — www.bethallisonbarr.com/books/becoming-the-pastors-wife
- The Making of Biblical Womanhood — www.bethallisonbarr.com/books/the-making-of-biblical-womanhood
Substack: Marginalia - bethallisonbarr.substack.com

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

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From Trauma to Torah: Rabbi Michael Holzman’s Mission to Rebuild American Democracy Sep 19, 2025

Show notes

After October 7, Rabbi Michael Holzman wasn’t just mourning—he was mobilizing. A project he had already spent years developing. Discover how one rabbi is using ancient wisdom, civic rituals, and interfaith grit to heal our fractured democracy.

In this episode, we sit down with Rabbi Michael Holzman, spiritual leader of the Northern Virginia Hebrew Congregation and founder of the Rebuilding Democracy Project. Together, we explore the fragile yet vital intersection of faith, politics, and civic life, tackling tough questions with grace, insight, and a touch of humor.

From personal stories of family division over politics to deeply Jewish perspectives on democracy, Rabbi Holzman opens up about how religious communities can serve as training grounds for better civic engagement. He also shares how his own path—from a secular upbringing to becoming a reform rabbi—shaped his commitment to democratic values.

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

⏱️ Timestamp Highlights:

[00:00:40] Welcome & intro to Rabbi Holzman and his work in democracy-building
[00:03:10] What does “lantzman” mean, and how does it reflect communal responsibility?
[00:04:40] Exploring Rabbi Holzman’s family history: German and Eastern European Jewish roots
[00:10:40] A spiritual upbringing grounded in nature, ethics, and the roots of his rabbinic calling
[00:14:10] The life-altering moment that shifted his path from medicine to ministry
[00:18:40] A personal journey through political polarization with his father
[00:26:40] Understanding the emotional and psychological impact of political echo chambers
[00:31:40] Why local synagogues and churches are essential spaces for democratic practice
[00:39:40] Launching the Rebuilding Democracy Project
[00:50:40] The power of scripture—both Jewish and American—in bridging divides
[00:56:40] “10 Faith Habits for Effective Citizenship”
[00:57:40] Rabbi Holzman’s reflection on Israel, Gaza, and ethical leadership
[01:00:40] Closing insights on disagreeing better and civic healing

💡 Key Takeaways:

"We have to build a culture that values dissent." — Rabbi Holzman on embracing disagreement as a civic virtue.
Faith communities can model democratic practices through sacred rituals like respectful dialogue and structured governance.
Personal experience with political polarization—especially in families—can become a catalyst for bridge-building.
The American Scripture Project uses historical texts and Torah to help congregations grapple with today's civic challenges.
Healthy democracy depends on rituals that reassure losers of their place in the system—a principle eroded by events like January 6th.

🔗 Resources & Mentions:

American Scripture Project - americanscripture.org
faith250 - faith250.org

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

Corey is @coreysnathan on...

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Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

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Governor John Kasich on Healing America: Faith, Forgiveness, and Civic Courage Sep 16, 2025

Show notes

A deeply personal and timely conversation with Governor John Kasich on bridging divides, living your values, and why forgiveness is essential in today’s fractured political landscape.

We were so pleased to be joined by Governor John Kasich who opens up about the role of faith, forgiveness, and civic duty in his life and career. The conversation spans everything from the tragic loss of his parents to a drunk driver, his evolving views on religion and politics, to the lessons shared in his newest book Heaven Help Us.

Governor Kasich's winsome curiosity sparked a profound dialogue about personal transformation, ideological differences, and how to build bridges in divided times.

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🧭 Timestamped Highlights:

[00:01:00] – Introduction to Kasich’s political legacy and current work
[00:07:00] – Governor Kasich's early faith, altar boy days, and influence of Father Farina
[00:09:00] – Losing his parents: a turning point in faith and life
[00:12:00] – Acts of faith: stories from Heaven Help Us 📖
[00:18:00] – Forgiveness, faith across traditions, and healing from trauma
[00:23:00] – The danger of losing objective truth in society
[00:25:00] – Story of Sister Mary Scullion and dignity for the homeless 🏠
[00:29:00] – Substack sneak peek: “Keep Faith America”
[00:34:00] – On policy, principle, and political backlash
[00:39:00] – Interfaith unity: mosque, synagogue, and church on shared land 🌍
[00:43:00] – Full-circle moment on forgiveness and memory
[00:46:00] – How to talk across differences—without killin' each other
[00:50:00] – Farewell and faith-driven future projects

💡 Notable Quotes:

“If that guy could turn the clock back… I suspect he would. So I actually don’t bear any kind of feelings anymore. Probably by the grace of God.” – John Kasich

“You can’t decide whether to like someone based on who they voted for.” – John Kasich

“Forgiveness takes time. Sometimes you forgive, then you wonder—did I really?” – John Kasich

“Everyone has a story. But we rarely take the time to listen.” – John Kasich

📚 Mentioned in This Episode:

Book: Heaven Help Us: How Faith Communities Inspire Hope, Strengthen Neighborhoods, and Build the Future - www.zondervan.com/p/heaven-help-us
Upcoming: Governor Kasich’s Substack, Keep Faith America

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

Corey is @coreysnathan on...

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Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

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“We Must Not Be Enemies”: Reflecting on the Assassination of Charlie Kirk Sep 12, 2025

Show notes

✨ This Is Not the Way — The Tragedy of the Assassination of Charlie Kirk and What It Means for Our Country

In this episode, we take time to reflect on the shocking assassination of conservative commentator Charlie Kirk, who was gunned down while speaking at a college campus. Instead of political posturing, let's have humane, constructive dialogue—and reject dehumanization, resist scapegoating, and reclaim our shared humanity.

Marking this tragedy on the anniversary of 9/11, we'll look at Lincoln’s words and the bipartisan statements of former presidents to remind us: "We are not enemies, but friends." This is not a moment for tribal rage or performative outrage—this is a moment to mourn, reflect, and reach across divides.

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🧭 What We Explore:

The perils of partisan dehumanization and scapegoating in times of tragedy
Why collective blame poisons public discourse and corrodes democracy
A powerful call to introspection: “What has hatred done to you?”
Reflections on the assassination’s timing—on 9/11—and what that means for national unity
Historical and moral guidance from Abraham Lincoln’s First Inaugural Address

⏱️ Timestamps & Highlights: Time Segment [00:00:00] Intro: “This is not the way” — a call for humanity over tribalism [00:01:30] Learning about Charlie Kirk’s assassination and initial reactions [00:03:30] Reflections on a contentious figure and respecting the humanity beneath disagreement [00:06:30] Mourning the death of a father, husband, speaker—what Charlie stood for [00:08:00] Predictable partisan responses—from gloating to vilification—and resisting them [00:10:00] The current president's divisive speech and what should have been said [00:11:00] Statements from living former Presidents—compassion, unity, dignity 🕊️ [00:12:30] Addressing those who rejoice: “Get the word ‘them’ out of your mouth.” [00:14:00] A personal memory from 9/11: national unity without needing a tragedy [00:15:00] A stirring reading from Lincoln: “We must not be enemies…” 🇺🇸 [00:17:30] Final call to action: Talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect 🔑 Key Takeaways:

Hatred dehumanizes the hater. Scapegoating “the other side” after tragedy only feeds the fire of division.
Individual acts of violence must not be ascribed to entire communities or ideologies.
Healing begins inwardly. Reclaim your humanity before trying to change others.
True leadership requires moral courage, not performative outrage or culture war posturing.
“We must not be enemies.” The words of Abraham Lincoln are more needed than ever.

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

Corey is @coreysnathan on...

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Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

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🎙️ Greg Lukianoff on How Free Speech Is Under Fire—from Both the Left and the Right Sep 09, 2025

Show notes

Why defending expression—even the speech you hate—is essential to democracy in 2025.

Episode Summary:

It was great to welcome back Greg Lukianoff, President and CEO of the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression (FIRE). Greg is also a New York Times bestselling author and executive producer of the feature-length documentaries Can We Take a Joke? (2015) and the award-winning Mighty Ira: A Civil Liberties Story (2020). In this conversation, we dive deep into the evolving challenges to free speech, the myths that undermine it, and why defending expression—even the speech we disagree with—is essential to democracy.

Drawing on personal stories, historical lessons, and his recent book The War on Words: 10 Arguments Against Free Speech and Why They Fail, Greg discusses how free expression protects us from tyranny, the importance of principled advocacy, and how we can better engage across divides.

🧭 Timestamps & Topics:

00:03:00 – Growing up as a first-generation American & discovering the importance of free speech
00:07:00 – Early days with FIRE and the roots of his legal passion
00:10:00 – What Nazi Germany teaches us about censorship
00:16:00 – Mob censorship, peaceful protest, and the slippery slope
00:24:00 – Debunking the “words are violence” fallacy
00:34:00 – Why “shouting fire in a crowded theater” is misunderstood
00:39:00 – Incitement, disinformation, and legal precedent
00:50:00 – Can we trust the courts to protect civil liberties?
00:56:00 – How to disagree without being disagreeable

💡 Key Takeaways:

Free speech is not a partisan issue – FIRE defends it across the political spectrum, even when it’s unpopular.
The myth of words as violence undermines peaceful discourse and invites real violence in return.
Historical lessons from Weimar Germany show that censorship can backfire—even empower fascism.
Shout-downs aren’t free speech – they are mob censorship in disguise.
Trust in the courts and constitutional law can still be a guardrail against overreach, from both left and right.
We must relearn how to listen, not just argue—to be curious, not combative.

🔥 Notable Quotes:

“Violence is not an extreme form of protest—it’s the antithesis of what free speech is for.”
— Greg Lukianoff

“Free speech is the peaceful substitute for violence.”
— Greg Lukianoff

📚 Resources & Mentions:

FIRE (Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression) - www.thefire.org
The War on Words: 10 Arguments Against Free Speech and Why They Fail by Greg Lukianoff & Nadine Strossen - www.thefire.org/research-learn/war-on-words
Authoritarians in the Academy by Sarah McLaughlin - www.thefire.org/research-learn/authoritarians-academy
The Eternally Radical Idea - eternallyradicalidea.com
The Great Dissent by Thomas Healy - us.macmillan.com/books/9781250058690/thegreatdissent

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

Corey is @coreysnathan on...

Our Sponsors:

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Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

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🎙️ Reckoning with Legacy — Dobson, MacArthur, and the Future of the Church with Special Guests Lisa Sharon Harper and Joe Smith Sep 05, 2025

Show notes

Dobson and MacArthur shaped a movement. Now it's time to ask: at what cost?

✨ Episode Summary

In this powerful roundtable conversation, host Corey Nathan is joined by author and public theologian Lisa Sharon Harper and pastor Joe Smith to explore the complex legacies of James Dobson and John MacArthur—two towering figures in American Evangelicalism who recently passed away.

What starts as a reflective discussion on personal experiences with Dobson’s and MacArthur’s teachings evolves into a profound analysis of spiritual formation, systemic violence, and the urgent need for a new way forward in faith communities.

Together, the guests courageously confront the intersections of race, gender, theology, and power—and what it means to heal, both personally and as a collective.

⏱️ Timestamps Time Topic 00:00 Introduction to the episode & guests 01:00 Lisa Sharon Harper on her spiritual beginnings 03:00 Legacy and impact of James Dobson 08:00 Dobson’s theology of discipline and its cultural roots 14:00 The trauma of “biblical” corporal punishment 20:00 Confessions of former Dobson followers — personal growth and regret 25:00 John MacArthur's institutional power and theological rigidity 30:00 Colonialism and the colonization of scripture 36:00 Reading scripture through empire vs. liberation 44:00 Who benefits from dominant theological frameworks? 48:00 Embracing humility and paradigm shifts in theology 54:00 Stories of change: how family and love reshape theology 1:02:00 Creating soft landing spaces for theological transformation 1:08:00 Substack, Freedom Road, and Lisa’s ongoing work 1:10:00 Final reflections on urgent action, humility, and grace 🧠 Key Takeaways

Dobson’s influence wasn’t just theological—it had lasting psychological, cultural, and political ramifications, particularly around corporal punishment.
John MacArthur's legacy is marked by strict dogmatism and theological frameworks that protect power structures.
Colonial frameworks of reading the Bible have displaced the voices of those who were closest to the original context of scripture.
Transformation is possible, but it requires humility, relationships, and spaces where people can ask hard questions without fear.
Urgency matters — personal and institutional change cannot come at the cost of marginalized communities' well-being.

🔥 Notable Quotes

🗣️ "Dobson taught us to break children like we break horses. But what does that say about our own brokenness?" — Lisa Sharon Harper

🗣️ "Scripture can't only be understood one way across all time and cultures—that's not reverence, that's colonialism." — Joe Smith

🗣️ "People's freedom can't wait for our paradigm shift." — Lisa Sharon Harper

📚 Resources & Mentions

Fortune: How Race Broke My Family and the World, and How to Repair It All by Lisa Sharon Harper - lisasharonharper.com/fortune
If God Still Breathes, Why Can’t I? by Dr. Angela Parker - www.eerdmans.com/9780802879264/if-god-still-breathes-why-cant-i
Lisa's Substack post on the passing of James Dobson - substack.com/home/post/p-171912453

🙌 Connect with the Guests

Lisa Sharon Harper
Substack - lisasharonharper.substack.com
Instagram - www.instagram.com/lisasharper
Joe Smith
Meizon Church GNV - www.meizonchurch.com
Instagram - www.instagram.com/therealjoe.smith

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

Corey is @coreysnathan on...

Our Sponsors:

Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com
The Village Square: villagesquare.us

Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Guardrails of Democracy: Daniel Weiner of the Brennan Center on Authoritarianism, Election Integrity, and Legal Guardrails Sep 02, 2025

Show notes

What happens when law firms, universities, and elections come under fire—and how we can all help hold the line for democracy.

🧭 Episode Summary

In this timely and incisive conversation, Daniel Weiner, a leading legal expert on democracy and rule of law, joins host Corey Nathan to unpack the rising authoritarian tendencies in the U.S., how democratic institutions are responding, and why legal guardrails are more critical than ever. Daniel, who serves as Director of the Brennan Center's Elections and Government Program, discusses the fragility of civil society, the weaponization of government power, and practical steps citizens and institutions can take to uphold democracy.

They also dive into:

The ethical obligations of law firms under pressure
Harvard University's legal pushback against the federal government
Election integrity in 2026 and 2028
Gerrymandering, Project 2025, and the role of independent commissions
How regular folks can be part of the pro-democracy coalition

This is a must-listen episode for anyone concerned about the future of American democracy and looking for informed, balanced, and actionable insights.

⏰ Timestamps & Key Topics

[00:00:00] Introduction to Daniel Weiner and his work at the Brennan Center
[00:04:00] Harvard's legal fight over academic freedom and federal funding
[00:06:30] Defining authoritarianism: Legal vs. rhetorical retribution
[00:11:00] What should law firms and universities do under federal threats?
[00:15:00] Daniel's journey from historian to legal advocate for democracy
[00:18:00] The ethics of mid-decade redistricting in Texas vs. California
[00:22:00] Why national standards for elections are necessary
[00:30:00] The mission and work of the Brennan Center for Justice
[00:33:00] Concerns for election integrity in 2026 and 2028
[00:40:00] Should the U.S. move toward national election administration?
[00:47:00] The vertical balance of power: Governors vs. federal overreach
[00:54:00] The Trump administration’s push to fire a Federal Reserve governor
[01:03:00] What each of us can do to protect democracy

💡 Notable Quotes

“When you look at what staves off authoritarianism... free and fair elections are critical, but civil society—including universities and nonprofits—is a bulwark.” – Daniel Weiner

“It’s legal and appropriate for administrations to enforce the law, but when power is deployed arbitrarily as political retribution, that’s authoritarianism.” – Daniel Weiner

“We need to learn how to sit with people who vote differently than us—not to rehearse rebuttals, but to ask questions and seek understanding.” – Corey Nathan

“Until we get national solutions to gerrymandering, we’ll continue to see tit-for-tat behavior across states.” – Daniel Weiner

🛠️ Resources & References

🏛️ Brennan Center for Justice: www.brennancenter.org
📘 Michael Waldman’s Newsletters (President of the Brennan Center) - www.brennancenter.org/about/leadership/michael-waldman
📖 Project 2025 – Heritage Foundation’s proposed government overhaul
📚 Federalist Papers and Emoluments Clauses (context on presidential ethics) - guides.loc.gov/federalist-papers/full-text

🗣️ Connect with the Guest

Daniel Weiner

🔹 Director, Elections & Government Program, Brennan Center

🔹 Twitter / X - x.com/DanWeiner329

🔹 Bluesky - bsky.app/profile/danw329.bsky.social

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

Corey is @coreysnathan on...

Our Sponsor:

Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

🎧 How NOT to Talk About Politics and Religion (And we got some DOOZIES to discuss!) Aug 28, 2025

Show notes

Is there any escaping the "Us vs. Them" mindset?

🗣️ Episode Summary

What are the pitfalls of engaging in political and religious discourse—especially on platforms like TikTok, YouTube, and Instagram? Drawing from recent interactions on his posts about Israel, Trump, democracy, and faith, Corey breaks down how NOT to engage in these conversations, underscoring the dangers of generalizing, mischaracterizing, and vilifying others.

🧭 What We Explore:

The dangers of black-and-white thinking in our polarized times 🌓
The importance of maintaining relationships across political divides ❤️🤝
Why shaming and moral superiority don’t win hearts, minds—or elections 🗳️
How online toxicity and echo chambers hinder democratic dialogue 🌐⚠️

⏱️ Timestamps & Highlights

[00:00:00] Introduction: Why this all matters now more than ever
[00:02:00] Reflections on engaging across multiple social platforms
[00:04:00] Reading and responding to vile and antisemitic comments
[00:07:00] The impact of identity and assumptions on discourse
[00:09:00] “Is everyone who voted differently suddenly an enemy?” 🤔
[00:12:00] On friendships with Trump supporters and relational complexity
[00:17:00] Responding to accusations of being “complicit”
[00:21:00] The impossibility of persuading through shame or purity tests
[00:26:00] “They want to see you dead”—the danger of total dehumanization
[00:29:00] On being called a “rapist worshiper” for loving Trump voters
[00:34:00] The misuse of Scripture in political arguments 📖
[00:40:00] Critique of redistricting and political generalizations
[00:44:00] Final thoughts: Save democracy through relationship and reason ✨

🔑 Key Takeaways

Dehumanization destroys dialogue: Reducing others to labels like “enemy,” “MAGAt,” or “rapist worshiper” erodes the social fabric.
Assumptions are toxic: Many presume political affiliation tells the full story—Corey reminds us it doesn’t.
Engagement ≠ endorsement: Loving or talking to someone with different beliefs isn’t betraying your values.

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

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Drawing the Line: When Gerrymandering Becomes Political Warfare Aug 25, 2025

Show notes

🎙️ Diving back into the gerrymandering / redistricting wars and the so-called "war on democracy." Is it a real war or political hyperbole? Corey unpacks recent redistricting efforts in Texas and California, confronts ethical and legal questions, and most importantly, discusses how we talk about these issues — especially when we disagree.

From institutional norms to California’s independent redistricting commission, we'll look at a nuanced, principled stance while challenging the increasingly combative political discourse. This episode is a rallying cry for more respectful, informed, and constructive conversations. ☕🗣️

⏰ Timestamps & Topics

[00:00:00] – Hyperbolic intros & the “war” framing
[00:01:00] – Texas redistricting: legal, ethical, wise?
[00:05:00] – Comparing Texas to California’s independent commission
[00:07:00] – Is it gerrymandering or “dummymandering”?
[00:10:00] – Corey’s personal impact from redistricting lines
[00:12:00] – CalExit? Exploring state-level autonomy
[00:15:00] – What makes responses democratic vs. anti-democratic
[00:17:00] – Instead of war: How about winning votes?
[00:18:00] – Latinx & language: When messaging backfires
[00:21:00] – Listener pushback: From “coward” to “wet noodle”
[00:26:00] – Political warfare and dehumanizing rhetoric
[00:30:00] – The danger of escalating political language
[00:32:00] – What Corey is willing to risk for peace and democracy
[00:33:00] – Final thoughts: Talk politics with gentleness and respect

💡 Key Takeaways

Legal ≠ Ethical ≠ Wise: Just because something is legal, like Texas’ mid-decade redistricting, doesn’t mean it’s ethical or wise.
Independent commissions work: California's model, while imperfect, supports representative democracy and reduces partisan gerrymandering.
Respectful discourse is essential: Hyperbolic rhetoric (“war,” “enemies,” “fascists”) hinders progress and dehumanizes fellow citizens.
Real change comes from persuasion: Winning hearts, minds, and votes is more sustainable than retaliatory political tactics.
Corey’s core belief: Anti-democratic actions shouldn't be met with more anti-democratic responses.

🔊 Notable Quotes

“If everything's an existential threat, nothing's an existential threat.”

“We need to be able to talk to our neighbors, talk to our friends, talk to our loved ones that happen to feel differently about this issue.”

“You want to be right, or do you want to win?”

“I am betting on conversations — at coffee shops, over drinks, at soccer games — to preserve our democracy.”

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

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✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

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Corey is @coreysnathan on...

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See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

From the Streets to a PhD: Dr. Terence Lester on Faith, Educational Injustice, and Fighting for Equity in a Broken System Aug 21, 2025

Show notes

Dr. Terence Lester on overcoming poverty, confronting systemic racism in education, and how we can show up for students our schools are failing.

Introduction:
Dr. Terence Lester is an activist, speaker, professor, and founder of Love Beyond Walls, a nonprofit focused on raising awareness about poverty and homelessness. Dr. Lester shares his remarkable story—from dropping out of high school to earning a doctorate—and how personal experience shapes his advocacy. We dive deep into the topics of systemic injustice, education, faith, and what it truly means to be present with those on the margins.

What We Discuss:

How Dr. Lester’s personal journey fuels his mission
The impact of educational redlining and systemic inequality
How faith, mentors, and community shaped his life
What churches and individuals can do to respond to injustice
How to build proximity and empathy across differences

Episode Highlights:

[00:01:00] Dr. Lester reflects on living in gratitude and grief at once
[00:05:00] The dismantling of Black history and language in public discourse
[00:10:00] How policy and redlining impacted Dr. Lester’s childhood neighborhood
[00:15:00] A teacher named Ms. West sees his potential and changes his life
[00:23:00] Mr. Moore tells Dr. Lester, “One day you’ll be a leader”
[00:31:00] His grandmother and the spiritual foundation of faith in a historic Black church
[00:36:00] A night in jail becomes a turning point in his faith journey
[00:46:00] What the church is missing—and what it could become
[00:54:00] How we can all build relationships across differences

Featured Quotes:
“Sometimes people have to borrow your courage.” – Dr. Terence Lester
“Distance is the enemy of belonging.” – Dr. Terence Lester
“You never know how far I’ve traveled to be here—and I’m not talking about geography.” – Dr. Terence Lester
“If you preach from your life’s text, you’ll never run out of material.” – Dr. Lester, quoting his Bible professor

Resources Mentioned:

Love Beyond Walls: www.lovebeyondwalls.org
From Dropout to Doctorate: www.ivpress.com/from-dropout-to-doctorate
Dr. Lester on IG: www.instagram.com/imterencelester
Dr. Lester's website: terencelester.com

📣 Calls to Action:

✅ TELL A FRIEND ABOUT TP&R!!! Bring more folks into the conversation.

✅ Subscribe to Talkin' Politics & Religion Without Killin' Each Other on your favorite podcast platform.

✅ Leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen: ratethispodcast.com/goodfaithpolitics

✅ Check out our substack: coreysnathan.substack.com

✅ Watch the full conversation and subscribe on YouTube: youtube.com/@politicsandreligion

🔗 Connect on Social Media:

Corey is @coreysnathan on...

Our Sponsor:

Meza Wealth Management: www.mezawealth.com

Thanks for tuning in! Now go talk politics and religion—with gentleness and respect. 🎙️✨

See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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