View Top 200 Chart

Back to Rankings Page

Songwriters on Process — Music
Songwriters on Process

In-depth interviews with songwriters about their songwriting process. That’s it. Nothing else. No talk of band drama, band names, or tour stories. Treating songwriters as writers, plain and simple. By Ben Opipari, English Lit Ph.D.

Copyright: © 2024 Songwriters on Process

Latest Episodes:

Phantogram Nov 11, 2024

The last time I interviewed Josh Carter of Phantogram was in 2010, before this site was even a podcast. It was one of the first interviews I ever did, and Carter mentioned the author Breece D'J Pancake. The name stood out, of course, but it took a while for me to read about Pancake's tragic backstory. Then more songwriters started mentioning him in interviews, so I finally read his book, and wow. Incredible.
This time, Carter and Sarah Barthel join me on the podcast to talk about their decidedly old-school writing process. We talk about Barthel's collection of analog typewriters, Carter's use of his Dictaphone, and how we just need more time to be bored. Yes, we sound like three cranky old people railing against the impact tech has on creativity. But I'll take that any day as long as Phantogram continues to make such good music.
Phantogram's latest album Memory of a Dayis out now.

Soccer Mommy Oct 25, 2024

Whenever Sophie Allison (aka Soccer Mommy) puts something out, I know I'll like it. Her new album Evergreenis no exception. We take a deep dive into her songwriting process on this episode.

Conor Deegan III of Fontaines D.C. Oct 13, 2024

Ed note: Here's my 2022 podcast episode with Fontaines D.C. singer Grian Chatten.
Unfortunately, I stopped recording before Conor Deegan (Deego) and I started reading poetry to each other. But that should give you a sense of how deep I went into the creative process with the Fontaines D.C. bassist. This is less a discussion about the particulars of the songwriting process than it is about the creative mind and the drive to write. And yet, even our discussion of why Deego likes to write with a pencil was a window to his soul. Of course, we also talked literature, from Blake to Baudelaire to Hemingway.
Fontaines D.C. is my favorite band today. Their latest album is called Romance.

Hello Mary Oct 01, 2024

Hello Mary on the pod today! Stella Wave, Helena Straight, and Mikaela Oppenheimer released their debut album in 2020, when Wave was 19 and Oppenheimer and Straight were 16. The band talks about their collective and individual writing processes, and we also discussed our shared love for the novelist Jennifer Egan.
Hello Mary's latest album Emita Ox is out now on Frenchkiss Records.

Mike Einziger of Incubus Sep 25, 2024

"Bravery is underrated when it comes to art," Mike Einziger, guitarist and songwriter for Incbus, told me. In other words, don't be afraid to write the bad stuff. (I'd listen to a guy whose band has sold 23 million records.)
As you'll hear on this episode, Einziger's intellectual curiosity runs deep, expanding far beyond music into the world of physics; the overlap of these two passions, he told me, means that he is constantly "driven by curiosity. And when that happens, songwriting doesn't feel like work."

Jake Duzsik of HEALTH Sep 16, 2024

Here's a sampling of the authors and artists that Jake Duzsik of HEALTH mentioned in our conversation: Pascal, T.S. Eliot, William Blake, Vonnegut, Joan Didion, Truman Capote, Oscar Wilde, Thomas Pynchon, Camus, Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Cormac McCarthy. And somewhere along the lines, we discussed postmodern prose. To be clear, Duzsik was not name checking. It reflects how deeply his creative mind operates.
HEALTH's latest album Rat Warsis out now. And shameless plug: if you're a fan of HEALTH, you might also be a Lamb of God fan. So buy Desolation: A Heavy Metal Memoir by Mark Morton with Ben Opipari (me)!

Pete Yorn Sep 09, 2024

Does writer's block really exist? Or is it just a reluctance to write the bad stuff? The writer Anthony Doerr once told me that writer's block is just "a failure of courage." Pete Yorn tends to agree.
On this episode of the podcast, Yorn and I talk about the myth of writer's block, why you should always say yes to a creative project with your kids, and why he still keeps his songwriting notebooks from his days as a college student at Syracuse University.
Pete Yorn's latest album, his tenth solo studio album, The Hard Way, is out now.

Jacob Slater of Wunderhorse Sep 03, 2024

Wunderhorse is why you should always get to the show early to see the support act.
I was introduced to Jacob Slater's band when I saw them open for Fontaines D.C. (here's my podcast with Grian Chatten of Fontaines) at a small club in Pittsburgh in 2022. I had never heard of Wunderhorse, but they won everyone, including me, over in the first thirty seconds with their volume and their energy. I've been a huge fan of Slater and his band ever since. And as you'll hear, we share a strong affinity for the amazing writer Breece D'J Pancake.
Wunderhorse's fantastic album Midas is out now.

Kevin Barnes (of Montreal) and Kishi Bashi Aug 26, 2024

It’s always fun to interview two songwriters who have a history together! Before his solo career, Kishi Bashi was a member of Kevin Barnes’ band of Montreal.

Kishi Bashi’s new album Kantos is out now on Joyful Noise Recordings, and of Montreal’s Lady on the Cuspis out on Polyvinyl Records. Kishi Bashi’s “Omoiyari: A Song Film” has been nominated for an Emmy with the winners announced in September.

Magdalena Bay Aug 23, 2024

Mica Tenenbaum and Matt Lewin of Magdalena Bay love hybrid cars. While I’m sure they appreciate the environmental benefits, it’s the humming sound the cars make that the duo finds inspiring. In fact, they find inspiration in everything around them, visually and sonically—even the act of Swiffering, as you’ll hear on the podcast. Small surprise that Tenenbaum had 2002 voice memos of ideas on her phone when we spoke.

Magdalena Bay’s new album Imaginal Disk is out on Mom + Pop Records. The band’s videos are incredible, so check those out too.

Eva Hendricks of Charly Bliss Aug 15, 2024

"I'm always writing and always creating. I relate to the world by writing," Eva Hendricks of Charly Bliss told me on the podcast. Besides songwriting, she's written a YA novel and is a big journaler. Heck, Hendricks even gets inspired while she's hanging laundry! And when those songs are close to fruition, they need to be perfect: Hendricks estimates that she wrote 50 different verses for the new song "Waiting For You."
The new Charly Bliss album Foreveris out on Lucky Number Records.

Tracyanne Campbell of Camera Obscura Aug 11, 2024

Tracyanne Campbell of Camera Obscura has a superpower: she's able to write entire songs in her head before putting them to paper. If Campbell gets an idea and can't write it down immediately, she'll repeat the words over and over to herself until she can grab a pen and pencil. This superpower comes in handy when driving is an especially rich source of inspiration, as it is for Campbell.
Camera Obscura's latest album Look to the East, Look to the Westis out now on Merge Records.

Matthew Koma of Winnetka Bowling League Aug 02, 2024

Matthew Koma of Winnetka Bowling League stops by the podcast to talk about how writing a song is like solving a crossword puzzle, why he doesn't like to dig through discarded melodic and lyrical ideas for new songs, and how he gets inspired by being among the stores.
Winnetka Bowling League's debut album Sha La Lais out now. I'm a big fan.

Ashton Irwin (5 Seconds of Summer) Jul 12, 2024

Ashton Irwin, drummer for 5 Seconds of Summer, often writes songs out of necessity. While he likes to journal, Irwin finds songwriting a much more effective vehicle for maintaining his mental health. And there's a routine to the songwriting process: from 11a-3p when the caffeine is at its peak, with a Moleskin journal and a black ink pen.
Irwin likes to write lyrics during the day; the songs he writes at night are different. "I’m less concerned with being tricky with the wordplay," he explains. "The songs I write at night are more beat driven and animalistic, conjuring the energies of the night."
Irwin's latest solo album, his second, is called Blood on the Drums.

Mike Doughty of Soul Coughing Jul 02, 2024

ED NOTE: This is from 2021, before this was a podcast and I was posting the video interviews to YouTube. I've taken the audio from that interview and turned it into podcast form. As you can tell at the beginning, we did this in the middle of the pandemic, hence our discussion about the creative process during COVID.
Mike Doughty believes that discipline is a necessary part of the songwriting process. Doughty made his name as the founder of Soul Coughing, but he's had a prolific career as a solo singer/songwriter. “I believe in discipline and the idea of working every day. I do like to look back at the end of the day with a sense of accomplishment.”

That feeling of accomplishment comes after some consistent journaling each morning and evening. It’s decidedly vintage: he uses an IBM Electric typewriter in the morning (“The blank white page is filled with light and hope) and a 1983 Apple IIe computer at night (“The glowing green has a definite night vibe.”). And he saves those evening journal entries on a five inch floppy disk.

Bonny Light Horseman Jun 09, 2024

The circle is complete. I’ve had recent interviews with Anais Mitchell (together with Charlotte Cornfield) and with Eric D. Johnson, but now that we’ve added Josh Kaufman, this is a full-on Bonny Light Horseman episode. I enjoyed this conversation immensely because we dove into their collective process, not just their individual processes. And listening to them talk for even a few seconds makes one thing immediately clear: the songwriting is great because the chemistry among them is so powerful.

Bonny Light Horseman’s new double album Keep Me on Your Mind/See You Freeis out now on Jagjaguwar Records.

DIIV May 28, 2024

All four members of DIIV (Zachary Cole Smith, Andrew Bailey, Colin Caulfield, Ben Newman) joined me to talk about their individual songwriting processes. This interview could've gone on forever because they are so passionate about creativity. What's interesting is that their individual songwriting processes don't have too much in common, but perhaps how those differences play off each other is why they make such good music.
DIIV's new album Frog in Boiling Wateris out now on Fantasy Records.

Eric Earley of Blitzen Trapper May 19, 2024

Does the mind of Eric Earley from Blitzen Trapper ever rest? I think not. After all, he told me that he liked to solve math problems in college while he was making breakfast. Earley is a voracious reader who just finished his self-proclaimed "Time of the Tomes," in which he read nothing but, well, tomes. (The longer, the better. Infinite Jest? Please. Kid's stuff).
Earley has a family and his other occupation involves working with the homeless population in Portland, so he's not quite as active as he used to be. But that's only because he doesn't have as much time, although now he's quite invested in meditation and dream journals. And songwriting, of course.
This is the second time I've interviewed Earley; the first was in 2018, when he told me that he'd written five unpublished novels "just for fun." Earley is also responsible for turning me on to the great short story writer Breece D'J Pancake.
Blitzen Trapper's latest album 100's of 1000's, Millions of Billionsis out now on Yep Roc Records.

Deerlady May 10, 2024

Deerlady is Mali Obomsawin and Magdalena Abrego, and their debut album Greatest Hitsis my favorite album of the year, and this is also one of my favorite interviews because we had so much fun.
I first heard Deerlady while listening to my old college radio station, WTHS at Hope College in Holland, Michigan. They played "Bounty," and it was one of those moments when you hear a song for the first time, stop whatever it is that you're doing, love it immediately, then listen to the entire album.
The backstory to Greatest Hits is fascinating. Obomsawin is a citizen of Odanak First Nation. She's a Berkelee-trained composer and bassist who leads the Mali Obomsawin Sextet, a jazz group. Abrego , a composer and guitarist, started at Berkelee before finishing at New England Conservatory, where she's on the faculty.
These are not, as you can tell, rock gigs. And that's why Obomsawin and Abrego love Deerlady: it's an unveiling! Greatest Hits is full of incredible guitar work and stunning vocals. Obomsawin told Stereogum, "It feels great to be in a rock band, like that's my natural state," while Abrego says that the band "feels like an unmasking." I'm loathe to categorize music, but others have called their music shoegaze, goth, slowcore. Whatever. I just love this album.

Aaron Lee Tasjan Apr 28, 2024

Aaron Lee Tasjan has a pretty simple writing process: he gets up around 8am, has a glass of water, and pets his cat. Then he writes. But not every day. "I only write when my body tells me to, when I can go off yesterday's fumes," he told me. And in one of the best rituals I've ever heard, Tasjan always writes with a pencil--but never uses the eraser. "I hate erasers," he says.
Tasjan lives in Nashville, where the Frist Art Museum serves as a tremendous source of inspiration for his songs. His new album Stellar Evolution is out now on Blue Elan Records.

Jane Penny (TOPS) Apr 15, 2024

Jane Penny, co-founder of TOPS, makes her solo debut with her fantastic EP Surfacing, out now on Luminelle Recordings. Penny stops by the podcast to talk about how Barry White has influenced her songwriting; why she has to write her lyrics in cursive; and why when you see her in the audience at a show and she's looking at her phone, she's actually deeply engaged in the creative process. She promises!
I'm a big fan of TOPS, so this was a lot of of fun.

Grace Cummings Mar 30, 2024

On this episode of the podcast, Grace Cummings talks about why her phone has been such a drain on her creativity and why she's making a conscious effort to stay away from it. But sometimes that phone can be pretty useful. For one, it allows Cummings to create her alter ego Cheryl. (You'll understand once you listen.) And it also allows her to create a fantastic filing system for her song ideas with labels like "excellent" and "very excellent" that we both agreed are pretty good mini pep-talks.
Cummings's new album Ramona is out April 5 on ATO Records.

Hovvdy Mar 24, 2024

Will Taylor and Charlie Martin of Hovvdy take a deep dive into their songwriting processes on the podcast. We delve into, among other things, the nuts and bolts of the revision process and whether distance is important when writing about an event.
Hovvdy's new (double!) album Hovvdy is out April 26 on Arts & Crafts Records.

Ducks Ltd. Mar 10, 2024

Evan Lewis and Tom McGreevy of Ducks Ltd seem to be at opposite ends of the creative spectrum when it comes to organization. Lewis likes chaos: "The process should be a disaster," he says.
McGreevy, on the other hand, needs order. His writing process involves emailing lyrics to himself, editing them, then sending the edited version to himself. Over and over. This allows McGreevy to see the version history of the lyrics in one giant email thread.
The new Ducks Ltd. album Harm's Wayis out now on Carpark Records. I'm very proud that not once in this podcast will you hear the term "jangle pop."

Future Islands Mar 03, 2024

Future Islands stops by today to talk about their individual and collective processes, which sometimes involves folding laundry and listening to trains. They've also earned the title of Most Well-Read Band I've Ever Interviewed: just listen to the dizzying number of favorite authors and literary influences they all have. That discussion alone could've been an entire episode.
The new album by Future Islands is called People Who Aren't There Anymore, out now on 4AD Records.

Martin Courtney of Real Estate, the sequel Feb 20, 2024

I had such a good time interviewing Martin Courtney of Real Estate back in 2022 for his solo album that we're doing it again! This time, Real Estate has a great new album out called Daniel on Domino Records. Courtney and I once again go deep into his songwriting process, including how it's changed since his solo album. And of course we talk children's literature too.

Johnny Marr Feb 09, 2024

Johnny Marr (The Smiths, The Cribs, Modest Mouse, The The, so many more) is arguably one of the greatest and most influential guitarists of the last 50 years. So don't waste any time reading this intro. Just listen to the podcast. It's one of my favorites. Lots of talk about our favorite authors and some great stories too!
Marr's latest album Spirit Power: The Best of Johnny Marris out now. His book Marr's Guitars is out too.

Mary Timony Jan 30, 2024

Untame the Tiger (Merge Records) is Mary Timony's first solo album in 15 years, and it's so good, from start to finish. For the uninitiated: Timony's bands have included Helium, Autoclave, Wild Flag, and Ex-Hex. All fantastic. Last year Rolling Stone named her #95 on the top 200 greatest guitarists of all time.
To get to this stage of excellence, Timony's process involves writing garbage. "The only thing that works for me is writing a lot of bad stuff I really don't like," she says. Timony writes in the morning then sets it aside. "The most important part of my process is that I have to forget everything I just did, then go about my day. If the song comes back to me, maybe three hours later, then I can judge it. That new person that I am who hasn’t written the song has to judge it. And 99 percent of the time, I don’t like it."
All the garbage just gave us one hell of an album.
*Here's my recent interview with Carrie Brownstein

Eliza McLamb & Sarah Tudzin Jan 23, 2024

You get two for one in this episode with Eliza McLamb and Sarah Tudzin! Both are songwriters: McLamb's debut album Going Through It is out now, and Tudzin is the founder and frontperson for Illuminati Hotties. We're here this week because Tudzin also produced McLamb's album.
But you may also know McLamb as the co-host of the Binchtopia podcast, and I have a feeling you'll be hearing Tudzin's name a couple of times on February 4 because she has three GRAMMY nominations for her work on the boygenius album.

Carrrie Brownstein of Sleater-Kinney Jan 14, 2024

"Writing is a form of contemplation," says Carrie Brownstein of Sleater-Kinney on the podcast. And while it's true that the actual act of putting pen to paper involves contemplating, Brownstein and I agree that the writing process is happening 24/7, not just during the act of transcription. You may not realize it, but you're writing and contemplating as you walk, talk, listen, sleep, eat, watch tv, whatever.
But when it comes time for Brownstein to actually put pen to paper, nothing beats a good old cheap couch she found on Craigslist. As you'll hear, it's the cheapness that makes it such an important part of her ritual.
Sleater-Kinney's latest album Little Rope is fantastic.
*Here's my 2010 interview with Corin Tucker.

Josh Radnor Jan 01, 2024

"When I write songs, I put on a miner's light and try to make it around the next corner."
Josh Radnor found fame playing Ted Mosby on "How I Met Your Mother," but he's also a terrific songwriter (and stage actor) with a new album Eulogy: Volume 1. Radnor stops by the podcast as we take a deep dive into his songwriting process. We talk about how his creative process as an actor intersects with his songwriting process, why he often starts with a lyrical idea and not a melody, and why procrastination can be a very good thing. Oh, and how food poisoning can give rise to a great song.

Jaime Wyatt Dec 19, 2023

I was already a Jaime Wyatt fan before we talked, but our shared affinity for the poet E.E. Cummings made this episode even more fun. I also knew this would be a good convo after reading an Instagram post where Wyatt declared, "I love words. And language. Always been a word nerd and love phrases that have dual meanings." Amazing!
Wyatt's latest album Feel Good is out now on New West Records.

Buffalo Nichols Nov 29, 2023

"The times when I'm writing the most are when I'm reading a lot," Carl "Buffalo" Nichols says on today's podcast. And wow is this true: you cannot be a writer of any stripe unless you read.
Nichols likes to read voices that he cannot relate to. He mentions writers like Flannery O' Connor and H.L. Mencken, as well as books like A Clockwork Orange and A Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. He didn't even like them all, but he still felt that hearing those voices makes him a better writer.
So on this episode we talk about how reading makes him a better songwriter, why being tired and cranky makes him a good editor, and why he likes to stop writing when he knows he still has something left in the tank.
Nichols' latest album The Fatalist is out now on Fat Possum Records.

Duff McKagan of Guns N' Roses Nov 08, 2023

Duff McKagan's latest solo album Lighthouseis dedicated to Cormac McCarthy, which is no surprise given the importance McKagan places on reading. The Guns N' Roses bassist reads without fail every day, so you get some great book recommendations in this episode of the podcast. McKagan doesn't just read for pleasure; he reads to make himself a better person. There's a great post on his Insta page of McKagan in the stacks at the Library of Congress, and he is one happy man in that photo.
You'll also learn in this episode why McKagan still has to write lyrics on a Blackberry, how he wrote one song in his head while carrying his dog, and why the New York Times crossword is a part of his daily ritual.

Jonny Pierce of The Drums Oct 27, 2023

Jonny Pierce says that The Drums’ new album Jonny is “a little less practice, a little more mess.” That messiness finally made songwriting enjoyable for him because for a long time, it wasn’t. “I never loved songwriting. I was never the type of songwriter who couldn’t wait to get to the studio,” Pierce says on the podcast. It was always something stressful, he said, because he equated it with literal survival.

But now Pierce is trying something different: the mess. Which includes, as you’ll hear, slithering down walls. And he’s much happier for it.

Jonny is out on ANTI- records.

Clem Creevy of Cherry Glazerr Oct 12, 2023

“I’m allergic to routine. I wake up and follow all my whims and desires. But inspiration strikes every couple of days, and when it does you don’t want to be around me because I have a one track mind,” Clem Creevy of Cherry Glazerr says.

That applies even when Creevy’s on a date: she once rolled over in bed and starting singing a beat into her phone, much to the confusion of her bedmate. But when she’s not getting inspired in bed, many of Creevy’s songs start on the bass. She likes windowless rooms and prefers a messy ball point pen for her lyrics.
Creevy also finds inspiration while driving, but unlike most songwriters it’s not the solitude that does it. In fact, horrible LA traffic puts her in state of zen. “I love that kind of energy when I’m in a situation that seems scary and hard.”
Cherry Glazerr’s latest album "I Don’t Want You Anymore" is out now on Secretly Canadian.

Genesis Owusu Sep 28, 2023

Genesis Owusu is the first songwriter to cite Samuel Beckett’s "Waiting for Godot" and Franz Kafka's "The Metamorphosis" as influences. Owusu stops by the podcast to talk about why he's such a huge fan of Beckett and Kafka, what it means to be a "selfish" songwriter, and why he never trusts lyrics that take too long to write.

I saw Owusu this summer when he opened for Paramore. What a live show. And his music blows me away; I'm a huge fan. Owusu’s latest album Struggler is out now.

Devendra Banhart Sep 16, 2023

"If you're writing alone, you're still collaborating," Devendra Banhart says on this episode of the podcast. I love that idea: even in solitary writing, you're always running ideas by yourself. Is it the unconscious against the conscious? Reminds me of the time Matt Nathanson told me that he calls his writing partner "The Assassin."
What you can't see in the podcast is that behind Banhart was an entire wall of floor to ceiling books as we talked. You can't be a good (song)writer unless you read. No exceptions. And I loved our discussion of why poetry is so important.
Banhart's latest album Flying Wig is out September 22.

M.C. Taylor of Hiss Golden Messenger Sep 10, 2023

“Surprising yourself is the only way to stay inspired,” M.C. Taylor of Hiss Golden Messenger says in this episode of the podcast. This is the second time I've interviewed Taylor, and here are three things I love about him:

He's still the only songwriter in thirteen years of this site to discuss his love for haiku and how it influences his process.
The thoughtful pause before he responds makes for some incredible answers.
Everyone in the Taylor family--MC, wife, and kids--starts their day reading and ends their day reading (not collectively).

HGM's latest album Jump for Joy is out now on Merge Records.

Blondshell Aug 28, 2023

Sabrina Teitelbaum (aka Blondshell) wants more joy in her songs. But that can be a problem because happiness is not a productive state for her songwriting process. "When I'm happy, I don't feel the need to write as much," she told me.
No matter her emotional state, though, the key Teitelbaum's fruitful songwriting process is not making it look too much like a process. The more precious she makes the process, the harder it can be to write. "Normalizing it makes me more productive," she says. For example, Teitelbaum often finds herself inspired at inopportune times, like when she's rushing to get somewhere. Yet some awareness of what works is important too, which is why I love the perfect balance in her credo: "Know your process but respect the mystery."

Blondshell's self-titled debut album is out now on Partisan Records. It's really, really good.

Jerry Harrison of Talking Heads Aug 23, 2023

At some point in my interview with Jerry Harrison, guitarist and keyboardist for Talking Heads, I asked him to respond to a quote by the iconic Beat poet Allen Ginsberg. Harrison told me that Ginsberg was a friend. And that is why he is Jerry Harrison. Talking Heads are one of the most influential acts of the past 50 years. Call it new wave, art pop, post punk, whatever: any act with that label can at least partially thank Talking Heads.
This conversation centers not just on the writing process--Harrison loves felt tip pens because of the "scraping feeling," by the way--but on literature. We talked extensively about prose and poetry, which should tell you something. Great musical artists are voracious readers. As for the writing ritual, Harrison said, "The rituals are a way for our minds to accept that we're writing. They create signals of positive reinforcement as a way of saying, 'There are no excuses since I'm in my writing space.'"
Talking Heads' Stop Making Senseis considered one of the greatest concert films, and in September it's being re-released in 4k. The band will reunite for the first time in 21 years for a Q&A with Spike Lee at the Toronto International Film Festival on September 11.
ED NOTE: yes, it's "Talking Heads," not "The Talking Heads."

Jenny Owen Youngs Aug 17, 2023

Jenny Owen Youngs had me at "Shitty First Drafts."
This is the Anne Lamott essay espousing the idea that the first draft of anything is supposed to be atrocious. Just get it down, dammit. "Almost all good writing begins with terrible first efforts," Lamott writes. The polish comes later. I always assigned this essay to my students when I was a professor.
The challenge comes when you're a parent, as Youngs is. (We have four kids, so I know the feeling.) How do you even find the time to create multiple drafts and feel like you're not wasting your time by intentionally writing a terrible one? As you'll hear, the shitty first draft method is not only a more efficient process, but when your time is no longer your own, you become a much more efficient writer. So a win all around.
Youngs's new album Avalanche is fantastic and is out September 22 on Yep Roc Records.

Bethany Cosentino Jul 27, 2023

ED note: I mispronounced Cosentino’s name in the podcast intro: the first “o” should be long (as in snow), but I used a short “o” (as in top). I’m sorry Bethany!
If you have plans to meet Bethany Cosentino and she’s late, look outside. There’s a good chance she’s there writing. Cosentino loves to write in her car—when it’s not moving, of course. She gets great ideas just sitting in it. “I’ll be late to things because I’ve been sitting in my car for too long. I’ll get there early or on time and then just sit there,” she told me on this episode of the podcast.

This is my third time interviewing Cosentino (the others were 2010 and 2015). Each has been so enjoyable because her answers were always different and always so expansive. There’s a reason for that: each album embraces a different process. Cosentino wrote one in front of a TV on mute and another in front of a big window. She wrote a good chunk of her debut solo album Natural Disaster on the floor.

John McCauley & Ian O'Neil of Deer Tick Jul 18, 2023

John McCauley and Ian O’Neil of Deer Tick stop by talk about what makes for an effective songwriting process. In no particular order: laundry rooms, a kitchen, a nice rug, running shoes, recumbent bikes, Raymond Carver, and turn signals.

Deer Tick’s latest album is Emotional Contracts, out now on ATO Records.

Emile Mosseri Jul 03, 2023

Academy Award nominee Emile Mosseri stops by the podcast to talk about the challenges that come with writing a solo album when all you’ve known is collaboration (his time in The Dig) and film & television composing (like his film score for Minari , for which he received a 2021 Academy Award nomination for Best Original Score). We talk about why he likes to write when he’s not supposed to be writing, why having a child is often good for his process, and why social media is never good for it.

Mosseri’s debut solo album Heaven Huntersis out now on Greedy Heart Records.

Josh Ritter Jun 16, 2023

Josh Ritter stops by Songwriters on Process to declare that while we like to think he writes with a quill pen, he actually writes almost all of his lyrics on his phone. That's a first: many songwriters tell me they write on a computer, but Ritter eschews even that because he prefers the spontaneity that his phone provides.
Ritter's latest album is Spectral Lines,out now.

Jess Williamson Jun 04, 2023

"I'm pretty much always thinking about lyrics every day of my life." That quote represents the energy that Jess Williamson brings to this episode of the podcast. Her level of introspection and enthusiasm made this conversation so much fun.
But what happens when you're always thinking about songwriting and you can't write a song? Williamson discusses the anxiety she felt during a year-long songwriting draught that lasted for all of 2022 and even into 2023. It eventually broke one day when she "threw the capo on the sixth fret, started playing some chords, and that was it."
Williamson's new album is called Time Ain't Accidental,out June 9 on Mexican Summer Records. In 2022, Williamson and Katie Crutchfield of Waxahatchee formed Plains and put out their debut album I Walked With You a Ways.

Etta Friedman & Allegra Weingarten of Momma May 13, 2023

"We don't write on lined paper. That's a big no-no." This episode with Etta Friedman and Allegra Weingarten of Momma goes deep. We dig into the whys of the writing process, not just the hows. We also discuss, for example, why mundane activities are never good for their creative process--a pretty unique answer among the songwriters I've interviewed. Most tell me that walking stimulates the writing process, but not these two: they use mundane activities like walking as a means to escape, not to create.
I LOVE this band. Love them. Their 2022 album Household Namewas one of my favorites of 2022 and heck even 2023. I am a huge fan, so this conversation was a blast.

Dave Lombardo of Slayer, Testament, Mr. Bungle May 02, 2023

"A washing machine with a clumpy pair of shoes can be a beautiful thing."
Legendary drummer Dave Lombardo, a founding member of Slayer, finds beauty in the mundane. And also in the annoying: "Even the rhythm of a jackhammer and the bumps in a road can be inspiring," he says in the latest Songwriters on Process podcast.
Lombardo's debut solo album Rites of Percussion (Ipecac Recordings) is an instrumental effort consisting entirely of percussive instruments. What kind? Here's the list: two drum sets (single and double bass kits), a large concert bass drum, a timpani, a grand piano, and a flock of shakers, maracas, Chinese and symphonic gongs, Native American drums, congas, timbales, bongos, batás, wood blocks, djembes, ibos, darbukas, octobans, cajóns, and cymbals.

Joseph Apr 20, 2023

Sisters Natalie, Allison, and Meegan from Joseph talk about their individual and collective songwriting processes in this episode. And in that discussion, they each learn something about the others that they didn't know!
Joseph's new album The Sun is out April 28 on ATO Records.

Eric D. Johnson of Fruit Bats/Bonny Light Horseman Apr 10, 2023

"I'm a wrong hallway person. I like to make wrong turns."
Eric D. Johnson of Fruit Bats and Bonny Light Horseman makes a lot of mistakes. And that's a good thing, he says, because that's when the good stuff happens. "The excitement is in the mistakes," he says. "The song is a house, and sometimes you walk into the wrong room."
Johnson's talking in metaphors, of course, but his literal rooms need to be a place of chaos too. The room where he writes starts off clean, but by the end there's stuff everywhere: cables, papers, notebooks, assorted musical accessories strewn all about. "The room has to be neat to start, but the good stuff happens when the room is a disaster."
The Fruit Bats' new album A River Running to Your Heartis out April 14 on Merge Records. Listen now to my latest episode with Eric D. Johnson!

Amy Ray (Indigo Girls) and H.C. McEntire Mar 29, 2023

"I've written whole songs on dog walks," says Amy Ray of The Indigo Girls. "I write a lot when I'm on the lawnmower, says H.C. McEntire.
What a great time this was listening to these two friends and fantastic songwriters go deep into their songwriting processes. For Ray, it involves writing five times a week for no more than two hours a day. For McEntire, it involves cork boards. We also discuss our shared love for Anne Lamott and Sharon Olds.
Catch them on on tour together this May.

Alex Skolnick of Testament Mar 19, 2023

(NOTE: This interview is from December 2020. I've converted the video to podcast form. You can watch the interview here.)
It's like opening a time capsule now when I listen to songwriters talk in 2020 about how they were navigating the pandemic as artists. For some, it was a bane: the isolation paralyzed their creativity. For Alex Skolnick of Testament, it was a boon. Quite simply, he says, "Not having to travel has opened me up to different ways to be creative that I didn’t have before." But on those rare occasions when he's in a rut (and they are very rare), Skolnick knows what to do: "If I’m stuck, I know what to do to get inspired. I know which films to watch, which books to read, which tv shows to watch."

Shana Cleveland of La Luz Mar 08, 2023

"All the time in the world is too much pressure."
Shana Cleveland of La Luz prefers a good deadline when she writes songs. And with a toddler in the house, her day is nothing but deadlines, which are also known as When Your Child Wakes From Their Nap.
If you're an artist like Cleveland, the best time to write is nap time. (We have four kids, so I know the feeling.) She discovered her knack for writing in those precious moments once she became a parent. "I can write just as many songs now in a much shorter period," Cleveland told me. And when she writes, she likes to sit outside in an office chair.
Cleveland's new solo album is called Manzanita,out March 10 on Hardly Art Records. It is amazing. Really. And I'm a big fan of La Luz, so this was a lot of fun.

Sara Watkins of Nickel Creek Feb 23, 2023

I first interviewed Sara Watkins of Nickel Creek in 2013, and this latest conversation reminded me why she is one one of my favorite interviews. The thoughtfulness and introspection she brings to this discussion are wonderful.
No matter the art you create, this episode is for you. We didn't focus on the practical aspects of the songwriting process nearly as much as we talked about Creativity (with a capital C): why we create and what it does to us when we do. Where does the urge come from? When is the drive the strongest? For Watkins, the ideal place to write from is curiosity. "The end goal is not to write songs. The end goal is to figure out my stuff, how to be me, how to work through stuff," she told me.
Nickel Creek's first album in nine years, Celebrants, comes out March 24.

Philip Selway of Radiohead Feb 11, 2023

Philip Selway, Radiohead's drummer, says that his best writing happens when "I'm looking the other way. My songs come along when they choose." But while Selway may prefer to wait for the muse, there are a few things he does to stimulate the songwriting process:

Selway likes to write on his drum stool, not a traditional chair. "It grounds me in my wider life," he told me.
Selway draws a mind map using a blue pen, a black pen, and a pencil. His lyrics are spread all over the paper with little sense of order. He likes pens and pencils because, he says, "I feel more connected to what's going down on the paper." When the ideas start running dry, Selway switches to one of the other utensils.
He finds dance a boon to his creative process. Watching, not doing, that is. "I get profoundly affected by watching interpretive dance," Selways says.

Philip Selway's latest solo album Strange Dance(Bella Union) is out February 24.

Liz Stokes of The Beths Jan 29, 2023

I love The Beths! So talking to Liz Stokes was a blast. The band's new album Expert in a Dying Field was on almost every 2022 year-end "best of" list. Listen to Stokes talk about the importance of journaling to her songwriting process, why distance is so important for revision, and the best headspace to write in. Of course, we talk about why walking around outside is so important to Stokes's process. Again: I love The Beths!

The Lone Bellow Jan 07, 2023

On this week's episode, I talk to all three members of The Lone Bellow! Zach Williams, Kanene Pipkin, and Brian Elmquist go deep into their songwriting processes and even learn a few things about each other that they didn't know before! In this episode, we discuss the impact that leaf blowing, linguistics, and literature have on their songwriting process.

Aly and AJ Dec 24, 2022

Aly and AJ Michalka have been writing and recording songs together since they were teenagers. It’s easy to see why: their processes are remarkably in sync. Listen to the sisters talk about this smooth creative relationship, as well as the important role that both reading and exercise play in their songwriting processes. Book recommendations included in this episode!

Tim Burgess of The Charlatans Dec 14, 2022

"I'm so much more prolific when I exercise."
Tim Burgess of The Charlatans admitted to me during episode 55 of the podcast that "rock stars aren't supposed to exercise, but we all have our secrets, don't we?" Well, the cat's out of the bag. Burgess loves to exercise, and it's an important part of his songwriting process. Many of his song ideas come to him at the gym as he's listening to music and watching whatever is playing on the television there. But physical activity as way to stimulate creativity underscores a bigger theme in his process: "When I'm preoccupied, that's when the ideas come," he told me. His best ideas happen when he's not thinking about writing songs.
In this episode, you'll also learn why Burgess needs a white room when he writes (no, it has nothing to do with Cream) and what Van Gogh painting he saw more than 20 years ago inspired him to write a song that, to this day, he still hasn't been able to finish.

Dave Hause and Kathleen Edwards Nov 28, 2022

"When I sit down to write, the house has to be clean. Also, the dogs have to be walked because they need to fuck off and leave me alone," Kathleen Edwards told me. Now in podcast form, my 2020 joint interview with Edwards and Dave Hause! Listen now!

S.G. Goodman Nov 13, 2022

S.G. Goodman was raised a farmer's daughter and studied philosophy in college. This means that not only does she love to ponder, she has time do it during those long days in the field. The product of all the pondering: amazing lyrics.
It's not a surprise, then, that Goodman doesn't like to write on tour and doesn't like to be inside at all when she writes. In fact, when she's on tour, she can't wait to get back home, where she can be outside and work with her hands. "Whenever I can, I try to get outside and do some kind of manual labor. That's when I'm the most creative," Goodman told me.
In this interview, Goodman also talks about the effect that her diagnosed obsessive-compulsive disorder has on her editing process. It used to mean that finishing songs was almost impossible because she always went back and tweaked over and over. Then one day a friend asked her a simple question: "Have you said everything you want to say?" And that's the litmus test she asks herself at the end of her songwriting process.
S.G. Goodman's latest album is called Teeth Marks.

Julian Lage Oct 30, 2022

Julian Lage has been hailed as one of the "most prodigious guitarists of his generation," so this was a new one for me: an interview with a songwriter who doesn't write lyrics, only instrumentals. As someone steeped in improvisation, Lage isn't one for specific rituals. And that's why I loved this conversation: it's a deep dive into the abstract elements of creativity as we try to figure out where it all comes from. Lage is on the faculty at The New School, so we talked teaching philosophy too. (I'm a former academic.)
Lage's latest album is called A View With a Room, out now on Blue Note Records.

Gavin Rossdale of Bush Oct 19, 2022

“A good song has fragmented fireworks. It needs to pull people in with interesting turns of phrases, word combinations that no one has heard before.”
Hear Gavin Rossdale of Bush explain why the painters Francis Bacon and Lucien Freud are far and away the biggest inspirations to his creative process. We also discuss why great writers are so important to his songwriting and how he gets so many ideas while walking.
(Audio note: I interviewed Rossdale while he was on his tour bus, so audio is a bit muffled.)

Grian Chatten of Fontaines D.C. Oct 06, 2022

"I write all day, every day. When I'm in the thick of it, it's a struggle to focus on anything else."
For Grian Chatten of Fontaines D.C. , there’s no such thing as a writing ritual if you never stop writing. He calls his writing process his "constant annoying companion. I have writing on speed dial 24/7." But Chatten says that he's always had a healthy relationship with writing because he's never forcing it. The key, he says, is to not take it too seriously or to make it appear to precious. "I treat it with as little importance as possible."

Madison Cunningham Sep 24, 2022

"When you have a regimen, it's ok to let up on yourself. Because you know that tomorrow, you'll be doing it again."
Madison Cunningham firmly believes in the writer's regimen. You have to put in the work every day. None of this "waiting for inspiration" stuff. "Words on a page every day, even if it's not songwriting," she says. So she starts each day by writing for ten minutes because everyone can make time for ten minutes. No excuses.
Cunningham also reads voraciously. "Books are one of my favorite wells to draw from," she says in this episode. She draws inspiration from iconic writers like Mary Oliver, Sylvia Plath, Flannery O'Connor, and Kurt Vonnegut. But books are not her only source of inspiration: dishes are too. Cunningham is yet another in the line of songwriters I've interviewed who gets song ideas while washing dishes. "Every time I've put down the guitar and picked up a dish, I've never regretted it," she says.
Of course, it's not that the act of scrubbing food that gives us song ideas; instead, writing happens subconsciously. Writers of any stripe need to understand that the writing process happens when we're eating, sleeping, walking, talking, sitting, staring, whatever--even doing dishes, because the mundane activities allow our minds to wander.
Cunningham is a two-time Grammy nominee (2019, 2022). Her third and latest album is Revealer.

Will Sheff of Okkervil River Sep 12, 2022

"If I have one piece of advice to give, it would be to write something the moment you wake up." Will Sheff of Okkervil River likes a good writing ritual. He believes in writing every day, just as a professional athlete needs to practice every day. But as you'll hear in this episode, he's also a firm believer in loafing. Sheff's first proper solo album, out October 7, is called Nothing Special.

Emily Haines of Metric Aug 31, 2022

In most workplaces, falling asleep on the job is not a good thing. But if you’re in Metric, Emily Haines says it's a great thing. In fact, she and her bandmates love it when they catch each other napping in the studio. Because that means they're being productive. Listen to the latest episode now!

Matt Nathanson and Butch Walker Aug 23, 2022

"I still have your cutlery, by the way," Butch Walker tells Matt Nathanson in this episode. Nathanson's latest album Boston Accent was produced by Walker. And while the two may have shared kitchen space and maybe even a utensil or two, their relationship in the studio worked because their creative processes were symbiotic: the limitation in one was offset by the complementary strength in the other.

John Moreland Aug 15, 2022

People tell John Moreland that he writes "bummer songs," which we both agreed is ironic gives that he cannot be in a bummer mood when he writes. "If I'm doing anything creative, my mind needs to be in a good space," Moreland told me. "I need a measure of self-acceptance when I write."
And when Moreland writes, he has a ritual. He likes to write between midnight and 4am. It has to be dark, and it has to be cool/cold, so he sets the thermostat to around 66 F. And here's my favorite part: Tokyo walking videos. When Moreland is stuck, he turns to YouTube and watches these videos for about 20 minutes. Sometimes it might be white noise when he's creating. Moreland loves the soothing element of a camera capturing the downtown streets of Tokyo at night with only the sound of the city as its soundtrack.
Moreland has one of my favorite voices in all of music. It hits me like no other. His latest album is called Birds in the Ceiling.

Kelsey Waldon Aug 06, 2022

Kelsey Waldon finds the beginnings of spring and fall to especially conducive to songwriting. A good yellow legal pad helps as well. Her latest album is called No Regular Dogon Oh Boy Records.

Taylor Goldsmith of Dawes Jul 26, 2022

Ready for some light summer reading? Taylor Goldsmith of Dawes isn't. He's currently reading Homer's The Iliad.
This is the second time I've interviewed Goldsmith, and I remain in awe of his reading habits. He reads all the time. My PhD in English Literature ensures that I've always done a fair amount of reading, yet I feel silly around Goldsmith. What I love about Goldsmith is that he reads not just for fun but to be enveloped by the artist. "I get caught up in the story of the artist," he says. "That's a big part of what inspires me. I want to see how the works of artist talk to each other." He'll do this whether it's a songwriter or a prose writer.
Dawes's latest album is Misadventure of Doomscroller.

Kevin Morby Jul 14, 2022

"This is gonna sound gross, but I'm a 34 year old adult and I've just started flossing for the first time in my life."
Come for the process, stay for the hygiene! Yes, there is a connection between Kevin Morby's songwriting process and his dental health: it all has to do with organization.
But while Morby may not floss and write at the same time, he does have a few rituals. He likes a cheap Bic pen and a yellow legal pad for lyrics because the unfussiness of them allows him get messy. He likes to pace with a guitar on a hardwood floor when he creates music. And he uses running as a way to work through lyrical or musical conundrums. Many songwriters tell me that they use exercise to clear the brain, and it functions that way for Morby too. He's somewhat unique, though, in also using it to help him create in the moment.
Kevin Morby's excellent new album is called This is a Photograph (Dead Oceans).

Martin Courtney of Real Estate Jul 07, 2022

Martin Courtney of Real Estate says that songwriting can be a "painstaking" process, so he's trying something new. "I'm trying to plow through it, take a step back, then chip away at it," he told me. He's also found fulfillment in writing about the small details of everyday life, trying to work those ideas into his songs.
But he always has Strega Nona to fall back on.
Courtney's new solo album is called Magic Sign.

Laura Veirs Jun 30, 2022

For Laura Veirs, the songwriting process involves giving the muse a good, long side eye. That's when she's not painting, surfing, reading, or exercising--all while being a single parent. "I try to do several things at once so nothing becomes too precious or too obsessive," Veirs told me in our interview.

The Black Pumas Jun 20, 2022

Six-time GRAMMY nominees The Black Pumas are not a found sound band. But Adrian Quesada loves nothing more than a good turn signal. "I’m always superimposing a 6/4 rhythm on them whenever I’m at an intersection," he said. So much so that that his wife often has to remind him when the light turns green.
This interview with Quesada and Eric Burton is from December 2020.

BJ Barham (American Aquarium) and S.A. Cosby Jun 06, 2022

BJ Barham of American Aquarium & I were reading S.A. Cosby long before it was cool! But seriously, now that Cosby has received universal acclaim for his books RAZORBLADE TEARS and BLACKTOP WASTELAND, the secret's out. Listen to my conversation with these two master storytellers as we discussed the writing process!
(This interview is from April 2021).

Craig Finn of The Hold Steady May 22, 2022

"If the next record is about whaling, you'll know where that came from."
Craig Finn takes it all in. He's the kind of songwriter who absorbs everything he sees and hears, and right now that involves reading "Moby Dick." Finn is a voracious reader, demonstrating something I've always maintained: the best lyricists read a lot. So when he sits down to write, he's efficient in his ritual: he writes quickly, usually giving himself 90 minutes to write four or five verses. Then he sets aside for a week, using fresh eyes in the revision process.
This is the second time I've interviewed Finn; the first time was in 2011. As runners, we talked both times about how exercise helps our creative process. In fact, I wrote an article in the Washington Post about the link between aerobic exercise and higher order thinking, and in that article I quoted Finn.
Craig Finn's latest solo release is called a Legacy of Rentals.

Julia Cumming & Nick Kivlen of Sunflower Bean May 15, 2022

Fresh off their new release Headful of Sugar, Julia Cumming (bass, vocals) and Nick Kivlen (guitar, vocals) of Sunflower Bean discuss how their sometimes divergent creative processes coalesce into an efficient whole.

Bardo Martinez of Chicano Batman May 07, 2022

“If I’m drawing a lot, I’m writing a lot. Those two processes are closely connected.” Bardo Martinez of Chicano Batman is, in his words, the “supreme doodler.” Whether he’s longboarding or reading to his kids or drawing, he's always thinking about his next song. This interview is from July 2021.

Jonathan Russell (The Head and the Heart) Apr 26, 2022

"I like to have structure in my songwriting process in order to let chaos rule."
Jonathan Russell of The Head and the Heart loves structure. It helps him in his domestic life: he often finds missing bridges in his songs when he’s cleaning the house, for example. “I love order,” Russell told me. “Clean kitchen, happy brain.” And he loves using lists to make his day easier. When I asked Russell what kind of writing he does outside of songwriting, his immediate response was simple: “I’m a listmaker."

Russell likes structure in his songwriting process too, but not for reasons you might expect. It lets him be chaotic. “Structure lets the chaos loose,” he told me. “As long as I have boundaries set up, I will allow myself to play like a five year old.” And Russell often gets his best writing done, he says, “When I become aware that I’m anxious.”

The Head and the Heart's latest album, out April 29, is called "Every Shade of Blue."

S. Carey (aka Sean Carey) Apr 20, 2022

"With the stuff I've been through, I would just go outside and immediately start to feel better."
S. Carey's (Sean Carey) new solo album Break Me Open was written during a time of tremendous domestic change: the dissolution of his marriage, the death of his father, and the growth of his children. Any three of these events, much less all three, would be time for introspection.
On the deeply personal lyrics of Break Me Open, Carey channels this introspection. And these periods of reflection were made easier by time spent outdoors: under the occasional tree, of course, but usually fly fishing. "It's my church," Carey told me. The gentle sounds of water moving past him, the scent of the foliage, the sight of fish breaking the plane of the river: all provided him with a contemplative self-examination that produced such a beautiful album.

Tim Kasher of Cursive Apr 17, 2022

Tim Kasher's latest solo album is called MIDDLING AGE. The Cursive frontman explains why he's a "militant reader" and why he doesn't subscribe to the Hemingway credo of "write first, read later." But does he believe that you should always write when you're hungry? Listen for the answer to that, and hear why he thinks songwriters always sing about "walkin' down the street."

Molly Tuttle and Katie Pruitt Apr 13, 2022

“I’m better at writing songs after I’ve processed an emotion. I have to let myself feel an emotion before I can write about it.”—Katie Pruitt.
"I write the best when I’m not putting pressure on myself to write about what’s happening around me.”—Molly Tuttle.
For Pruitt and Tuttle, dreams are an especially fruitful time for song ideas: both women have been awoken in the middle of the night by incredible melodies running through their head. (And as you’ll also hear, one of those daytime melodies actually caused a car crash.)
Katie Pruitt's debut album Expectations (Rounder Records) came out in 2020, and it's one of my favorite albums of that year. Molly Tuttle released her debut When You’re Ready (Compass Records) in 2019. In 2017, Tuttle was the first woman to win the International Bluegrass Music Association's Guitar Player of the Year award. She won the award in 2018 too, when she was also named the Americana Music Association's Instrumentalist of the Year.

Paula Cole Apr 09, 2022

"The more evolved periods of my life are when I’m journaling. My journal is a backbone to my life, a conversation with my subconscious. It makes for a healthy mind and spirit.” For Grammy winner Paula Cole, the songwriting process is deeply contemplative and kinesthetic.
But journaling is just one part of Cole’s very kinesthetic writing process. “I feel it in my body,” she told me. “It’s like feeling creatively pregnant.” Cole uses movement to bear those songs. They come from walking, swimming, gardening, and dancing (to Donna Summer, natch). Even the keyboard plays a role: the deeper the key travel, the better. And then there’s this advice she gives to songwriters: “Drink drink drink, pee pee pee.” (This interview is from April 2021.)

Eric Pulido of Midlake Apr 05, 2022

Eric Pulido of Midlake takes a deep dive into his songwriting process on today's episode. Pulido is an avid runner, and we talk a lot about how that four mile loop in the local park is a great way to both get out of a rut and conjure up new ideas. Midlake's latest album is called For the Sake of Bethel Woods (ATO Records).

Sarah Jarosz and Margaret Glaspy Apr 02, 2022

(This interview is from February 2021.)
Listen to old friends Sarah Jarosz and Margaret Glaspy talk about their songwriting process! Four-time GRAMMY winner Jarosz and Glaspy have known each other since they were teenagers, so this was a fun conversation. But we did this in the middle of the first COVID winter, so it's a stark reminder that songwriters are only now beginning to emerge from a long spell of unemployment. You'll hear phrases like "when you lose your job, it's stressful" and "the reality of losing my job really got me down."

Stu Mackenzie of King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard Mar 30, 2022

This interview is from January 2021.
You think you're prolific? Stu Mackenzie and his bandmates put out five albums in one year, and sixteen over the course of ten years. Not surprisingly, Mackenzie is always creating and gets anxious when he's not. He gets song ideas from everywhere: one song even came from the time signature of the alarm his car makes when he leaves the lights on.

Steve Gunn Mar 27, 2022

“My receptors are always on because I don’t want to miss anything I see or hear. I try to collect everything," says Steve Gunn. The songwriting process is 24/7 for Gunn. Even when he’s not putting pencil to paper, he’s creating. This interview is from August of 2021.

Anand Wilder Mar 22, 2022

"If I have anything to give the world as a songwriter, I'm trying to explore the middle ground. That's not the most effective for songwriters because the most provocative things are clear statements of good and evil," says Anand Wilder, formerly of Yeasayer.
In this podcast, you'll come for the process and stay for the impressions! Sure we take a deep dive into Wilder's songwriting process, but where else can you find impressions of John, Paul, and George (no Ringo). And Paul Simon?
Impressions aside, Wilder is a fantastic interview and a great storyteller. But back to the process: it's about weed and windsprints. Listen to find out how he incorporates these elements into his songwriting process!
Wilder's first solo album is called I Don't Know My Words.

Bartees Strange Mar 19, 2022

“There are days when the songs won’t stop coming. It’s like I’m holding a bucket in the rain and just trying to catch all the ideas.” Bartees Strange has a lot of song ideas. So how does he get them all down when all he does is think about creating?

Brian Fallon and Tracii Guns Mar 15, 2022

Did you know that "The Ballad of Jayne" by LA Guns was one of the first songs Brian Fallon learned on guitar? Or that Tracii Guns is a huge Brian Fallon fan?
This interview is from the early stages of the pandemic, September 2020. It's interesting to hear people talk about making and playing music in what seemed like a different time. I got these two together after noticing that they always commented on each other's social media posts. Little did I know this was the first time they met! This is the third time I've interviewed Fallon, and I've been a Tracii Guns fan since, well, forever.

Erin Rae Mar 12, 2022

Erin Rae needs three things for her songwriting process: a hardwood floor, a phone on airplane mode, and glowiness.
Rae typically gets compared to 70s singer/songwriters like Joni Mitchell and Jackson Browne. It seems like every review has the obligatory "Laurel Canyon" reference. But heck: these are just good songs, period. No comparison needed.
Erin Rae's latest album Lighten Up is out now on Thirty Tigers Records.

Kathy Valentine of the Go-Go's Mar 09, 2022

“It's important to me as a writer to push myself out of my comfort zone in order to grow. That's what excites me now.”
With her terrific memoir All I Ever Wanted, bassist Kathy Valentine of the Go-Go’s loves exploring new genres outside of songwriting.
As one of the songwriters for The Go-Go’s, Valentine wrote two of their most popular hits in “Vacation” and “Head Over Heels” as well as several other songs. So we’ve been able to check "killer songwriter” off the list for a while. Now we can add “fantastic prose writer”: All I Ever Wanted is a great book.
Our interview was a discussion about Valentine’s process as a songwriter and a prose writer, with a focus on the latter.

Tomberlin Mar 06, 2022

For Tomberlin, songwriting is emotional and heavy work. It’s not always pleasant. There’s a lot of emotional prodding and digging.
The word “processing” came up a lot in my interview with Sarah Beth Tomberlin (aka Tomberlin) when she discussed how she writes songs. She uses songwriting as a way to process the events in her life, much more so than most songwriters have shared with me.
But it’s difficult to write songs when things are “pleasant” in her life. “There’s no urgency to the process in that case,” she says. It’s the difficult events that she writes about, and these events require distance before she’s able to process them.

Emily Scott Robinson Mar 04, 2022

Bank pens and vacuum cleaners: the keys to Emily Scott Robinson's songwriting process.

Robinson and I both agree that having a writing ritual is important. Rituals give us confidence and comfort. But they also help us achieve a flow state where the writing just happens: you don't have to think about the words because they issue forth. It's when you're on a roll.

Achieving this flow state is hard, so that's where the bank pens and vacuum cleaners come in. Robinson is a pen-and-paper person for her lyrics. And there's something about the smoothness of those cheap ball point pens from her local bank that she finds irresistible. When she writes with them, the words flow. So if you see Robinson in your local bank branch when she's on tour, she may be doing more than just a bank transaction.

As for the vacuum cleaner, that's for generating ideas. We talked a lot about the role of movement to the songwriting process. Most songwriters tell me that they get ideas while walking, running, hiking, biking, swimming, or driving. I've also heard cooking and gardening. But Robinson is the first one to cite an upright vacuum. It's not the vacuum itself that gives her ideas, but the repetitive and monotonous movement that helps her brain focus on the writing process, just as it does with the repetitive motion of walking, running, or cutting vegetables. And when your brain can engage in an activity that involves minimal higher order thinking, it can then use that space for creativity.

Jeff Daniels Mar 01, 2022

“You’ve got to be open, you’ve got to fire the judge, you’ve just got to receive it all.”

If you want to be a writer of any genre, says songwriter (and, yes, actor) Jeff Daniels, you also have to keep your radar on 24/7 for what you see and hear. And be prepared to steal it.

Sure, you know Jeff Daniels from his many films, but he's also been writing songs and playing guitar since 1976.

This is a conversation about the artistic process writ large, so if you're a songwriter, a playwright, an actor, or any combination of the three, you’ll love this interview. The playwriting process and the songwriting process overlap as Daniels effortlessly segues between the two in our discussion; at some point, he exclaims, "It's all fucking connected!"
Daniels also says that being an actor has opened up the “get it all out” free for all in the initial stages of the writing process, both as a songwriter and a playwright. In other words, he’s a big fan of just spilling everything on the page and then editing out the bad stuff later. But with experience, he told me, “at least the quality of the garbage has gotten better.

Patterson Hood (Drive-By Truckers) and Lilly Hiatt Feb 27, 2022

"The good songs happen like someone is playing a record in space, and I have an antennae to pick it up. I actually hear it, and write it down as quickly as I can.”—Patterson Hood.

"You don’t just get to have the muse all the time. It’s mysterious. But you have to experience stuff and have time to process those experiences to be able to write about them."—Lilly Hiatt.

There are two different points during my interview with Patterson Hood of Drive-By Truckers and Lilly Hiatt when each reaches to the sky, grabs a piece of air, and pulls it down. Both were describing their songwriting process: songs come from the muse, from the sky, from somewhere they can’t explain. And it’s their duty to grab that song, pull it down, and create it.

Both Hood and Hiatt talk about the need to create. It’s not something they do because it’s their job or because they enjoy it. Those things are true, of course. But songwriting is such a part of their lives that it’s almost a matter of survival.

Martin Sexton Feb 25, 2022

When singer/songwriter Martin Sexton gets in a rut, he turns to chaos.
Some songwriters take a break, some take a walk, others plow through until they get a breakthrough. But Sexton needs disruption. He uses two radios at once, one on each side of his computer. Each radio plays a different genre. It could be talk radio and rock, classical and country. The sounds don't matter because the goal is to drive his editor crazy.
Sexton says that his ruts happen when he gets in his own way: too much editing, too much thinking about what he's writing when the goal is to just get stuff down. "Two radios at once allows the other stuff to come in. It distracts my brain so I can just write," he says. With different songs coming from each side, he can't focus on either. "The chaos confuses the editor and hopefully drives it away." It's a great way to jumpstart his writing.
When he's not in a rut, Sexton prefers silence. His favorite place to write is the family cabin deep in the Adirondack Mountains, where he lives in the summer and visits in the winter. "It's a magical place. I'm surrounded by clean air and clean water and nature. I'll sit at the table and write for hours," Sexton told me. "I love the dead quiet. There's no one around. Just me and the coyotes."
There's another place where Sexton gets inspired, and it's common to many songwriters I interview: behind the wheel. "After a few hours, the sound of the tires hitting the pavement puts me in this elevated state of consciousness," Sexton says. And yet "behind the wheel" doesn't have to be the car. He thought of the chorus for his song "Hold On" while on a bike ride with his son. He didn't have anything to record the chorus with, so he sang it to himself over and over until he got home--and sang it to the neighbor too just to make sure he didn't forget it.

Kerry McCoy & George Clarke of Deafheaven Feb 25, 2022

For George Clarke and Kerry McCoy of Deafheaven, it’s not the ritual of the process itself that’s important as much as the preparation before the process. Both use a meditative and repetitive activity to prepare their mind: for McCoy it’s surfing, and for Clarke it’s often running or driving.
Clarke writes the lyrics for Deafheaven, while McCoy writes much of the music. For both men, it’s all about putting themselves in the best possible headspace to make something. Surfing is a big part of McCoy’s creative process; he tries to go every morning because it’s one of the few times in his life where he can purely be in the moment. “No watch, no phone,” he says. More than a few Deafheaven riffs have emerged from his time on the water. Clarke says that a workout—either the gym or running—is a good way to prepare, as is the drive to the LA studio in all its glorious monotony.
Both also cite their manager Cathy Pellow’s strong cold brew coffee as an important part of the ritual.

Walter Martin Feb 23, 2022

Walter Martin’s most efficient writing process involves not sitting down with the intent to create. Also: being hungover helps.

Like most songwriters tell me—Britt Daniel of Spoon was the last one—Martin does not sit down to write a song. “When that happens, it comes out the wrong way. I start to sound too smart or like poet,” he says. Instead, he’s writing all the time by constantly observing his surroundings. Song ideas come to Martin throughout the day, like when he’s mowing the lawn, and that’s when he whips out the phone to record those ideas. So when he finally sits down to write, there’s a wealth of source material.

Martin does find one state of mind to be especially productive: hungover. More than a few songwriters have told me that having a hangover is a great state of mind to write in. Most tell me that it’s because the pain gives them a sense of serenity. But Martin’s theory is pretty simple: the residual alcohol gives his head just enough looseness to spur his creativity.

Walter Martin’s latest album The Bear is out March 23. Listen to our interview below!

Morgan Wade Feb 22, 2022

Morgan Wade gets more done by 8am than you do. "The more active I am, the more energetic I feel. And that's when I get my best ideas," she told me.
If you want to schedule a meeting with Wade, do it early. I mean really early. She's usually up and ready to go by 5am. "I get emails from people who want to schedule meetings at 10am, and that is way too late for me. I'm thinking 8am is a much better time," she told me. In fact, on those rare occasions when she’s slept in until 8am, her day is ruined. (Trust me when I tell you how unique this is. To many songwriters I’ve interviewed, getting an early start to the day means 10am at best.)
Wade's debut album Reckless is out now on Thirty Tiger Records.

Debbie Gibson Feb 21, 2022

For the uninitiated: Debbie Gibson is still the youngest female to write, produce, and perform a #1 single, with "Foolish Beat" at age 17. I think I was just learning how to make toast at that age.
She wrote all the songs on her debut album Out of the Blue—at age 16. The album had four singles in the US top five and sold more than five million albums. Gibson's second album Electric Youth was the #1 album in the US for five weeks. It contains three singles in the top 20, including the #1 song "Lost in Your Eyes." With that song, Gibson came home from school, started playing the piano, and the song just poured out in real time. "I wrote it in ten minutes and never changed a note," she told me. "I have no idea where it came from."

Julien Baker and Matt Nathanson Feb 19, 2022

Some artists create because they like the process and the product. They like what they do and they’re good at it, whether they’re amateurs or professionals.

But other artists create because they need to create. They have to write songs. It’s a self-actualizing and at times even a survival instinct, a primal drive. Because of this, external forces like love or relationships or world upheaval aren’t always drivers. These artists create because they must create. And at times, it may not even be enjoyable.

This is what I thought about after my interview with Julien Baker and Matt Nathanson. It struck me in the metaphors they use to describe lyric writing: words like “shitting” and “puking,” images of violent expulsion that can also bring a tremendous sense of relief—and that are intertwined with instinct and drive. But there’s also genuine anxiety, and at times fear, attached to the songwriting process for both artists.

Michelle Zauner of Japanese Breakfast Feb 17, 2022

No matter if she's writing great music or great books, Michelle Zauner goes by one credo: first thought, best thought. It's always garbage before the good stuff. "Raw source material is supposed to be crap,” Zauner says. “You have to allow yourself to be terrible," she told me.
Zauner is the singer, songwriter, and founder of the band Japanese Breakfast. But she's also the author of the bestselling memoir Crying in H Mart, which ended up on many 2021 year-end "best of" lists and is also being made into a movie.

Britt Daniel of Spoon Feb 15, 2022

Spoon's Britt Daniel finds that success as a songwriter comes when he's not trying to write songs. The less organization, the better.
"When I try to write with intention, I come up empty," Daniel says. But if I'm not trying to do anything, I've been more successful. Trying to be organized can be a dead end." He told me that he likes to start writing without any direction. And Daniel often finds crowded bars and restaurants to be inspiring. Not only does he like the energy of the crowds, but he also uses what he hears and sees as source material. So if you happen to spot Daniel in a bar and he's scribbling away in a notebook, the man may be writing the next Spoon record!

Lauren Mayberry of CHVRCHES Feb 13, 2022

Lauren Mayberry of Chvrches has an impressively organized songwriting process that involves spreadsheets, Pinterest boards, and a jar full of paper.
For Mayberry, that organization involves writing every day. She has the jar to show for it, a jar full of cut out words and phrases that she collects for inspiration or future lyrical Ideas. She also keeps notebooks. "Writing is very therapeutic for me," Mayberry told me.

Mayberry has a keen and precise take on her creative process. She doesn't write much on tour. "Sad, soft, worried me doesn't go on tour, but she's the one who writes better," Mayberry says. When she does write, it often helps to be doing something else, like riding public transportation, driving, and chopping vegetables. Yes, chopping vegetables. "It helps when the conscious brain and subconscious brain are doing different things. The hubbub is meditative," explains Mayberry. "The conscious mind checks out so that the subconscious can do the work."

Mayberry's creative process is impressively organized. It involves spreadsheets organized by tabs with themes like horror, anger, and sadness. She's a big fan of Post-It Notes, and she loves hotel pens. Pinterest mood boards filled with images help her when she's stuck.

Mia Berrin of Pom Pom Squad Feb 11, 2022

For Mia Berrin of Pom Pom Squad, how a song looks is as important as how it sounds. And her latest album Death of a Cheerleader looks and sounds red.
Pom Pom Squad’s video for “Head Cheerleader” is fantastic. (The song itself is amazing and one of my favorites of 2021.) It’s rife with colors, images, and symbols.

But what Berrin did with the video is not surprising if you know her background: she first moved to New York to study acting at NYU. And while the video is awash in vivid colors, red stands out. That color played a big part of the songwriting process for Death of a Cheerleader. In fact, she surrounded herself with it during recording, “Lots of red velvet and red vinyl. I had red curtains and wore red gloves,” Berrin says. It was important for her to carve out a physical space during writing that “looked like the internal space of the record. And red is what I wanted the world of the record to look like.”

Berrin cites John Waters and David Lynch as influences in the making of her videos, which she says are heavily stylized representations of the world.

Yola Feb 10, 2022

For Yola, songwriting is all about the colliculus. And sometimes a good vacuum.

There’s a common motion many songwriters make when telling me where their songs come from: they start grasping in the air, mere conduits pulling songs out of the ether. But if you ask Yola, she’d probably tap her head. “I have an obsessive neurological approach to songwriting,” she told me.

The most important part of Yola’s process is her colliculus, a midbrain region. And that’s why this interview was part songwriting, part science lesson. “I farm out my work to my colliculi. It’s the part of the brain that takes things in from the periphery, like that billboard that you barely notice as you zoom by,” she said. Yola doesn’t want her songwriting process to be too analytical. “If I muscle something with my conscious mind, I might fabricate something based on issues I’m dealing with at the times," she told me. It’s why so many song ideas come to her when she’s doing something mundane like driving or vacuuming: she’s not thinking about songwriting. “It’s a state of being unconscious but extremely aware,” she said.

Yola has been nominated for two GRAMMYs this year: one for Best Americana album (Stand for Myself) and the other for Best American Roots Song (“Diamond Studded Shoes.”)

Anais Mitchell and Charlotte Cornfield Feb 09, 2022

Artists are always searching for the ideal creative state, that perfect time when the songs effortlessly flow. With both Anaïs Mitchell and Charlotte Cornfield, that involves, well, not really being aware of when they’re in that ideal state.

For Mitchell, it involves accessing the subconscious in dreams. If she’s lucky, a fellow songwriter might appear in those dreams to give her counsel, like David Rawlings once did. And for Cornfield, that brief moment right before sleep, when she’s just about to doze off, is an especially fertile time.
Mitchell and Cornfield love a good deadline. Their songwriting processes involve structure and discipline, not just sleeping and dreaming. “I'm a big fan of having a routine and showing up for it, even if nothing happens,” Mitchell told me. And they also find artistic inspiration in blank email messages (Mitchell), skateboards (Cornfield), door panels (Mitchell), and black ink (both). In fact, Mitchell is so versed in door panels that she actually told Cornfield and me what kind of door panels we have after noticing them in our interview.

In case you were wondering how I picked Mitchell and Cornfield as an interview pair, here’s my highly scientific process. I follow two artists on Twitter, then from that I see if they follow each other. If they do, then it’s match. Turns out that Mitchell and Cornfield have known each other for over ten years, so their familiarity made this a very fun conversation. Enjoy!

Keb' Mo' Feb 08, 2022

“As a songwriter, my job is to figure out how to draw some optimism out of any situation.”

Five-time GRAMMY winner Keb’ Mo’ draws that optimism from the “big bubbling river” of creativity.

We can all use a little Keb’ Mo’ in our lives. As the world burns, Kevin Moore (aka Keb’ Mo’) sees cause for optimism everywhere—even in his own home, where he gets joy from mundane household chores that I certainly detest. While I may recoil at the sight of a big pile of laundry, Moore loves it: he finds comfort in folding clothes and even ironing! It’s not a direct part of his songwriting process. Instead, the meditative nature of the act calms him and prepares him to sit down and write.

And when Moore starts to write, he’s pretty confident that the songs will come. “Creativity is like a big, bubbling river. It’s there. You just have to plug into it,” he told me. “I feel like I’m swimming in a pool of creativity.” Would that we were all this optimistic!

Moore’s ideal time to write is between noon and 6pm, after he’s been to the gym. He likes to write lyrics with a pencil and notepad (a legal pad if possible; he hates paper with rings on the side). He sits on the couch with his guitar, turns on Netflix, and plays around until he hears something he likes.

The latest album by Keb’ Mo’ is Good to Be.

Allison Russell and Aoife O'Donovan Feb 07, 2022

Allison Russell & Aoife O'Donovan talk about the songwriting process as full-time moms. Hint: there's not a process.
“We’re working moms, so the best undisturbed time is between midnight and 4am.”—Allison Russell
“I’m not the ‘lounge around’ type of person. There’s not one wasted hour in my day.” —Aoife O’Donovan

Russell and O’Donovan are full-time songwriters of course, but they’re moms first. So what you won’t hear in our conversation is how wonderful it is to wake up, have a leisurely cup of coffee, lounge on the couch with a guitar, and write undisturbed. Songwriting ritual? What’s that?

What you will hear is the phrase “we’re working moms” several times from both of them. You’ll hear how Russell writes between midnight and 4am because it’s often the only alone time she has. You’ll hear how she develops melodies and plays beats on her body while she’s in the shower—and how the shower was where she went to cry when she was a new mother. You’ll hear how O’Donovan gets so many of her song ideas while she’s running; sure, exercise spurs creativity, but it’s also alone time. You’ll hear how the practicalities of being a parent and full-time songwriter involve driving kids places and being without childcare and trying to help with schoolwork—all while trying to write an album. And you’ll hear how during the early stages of the pandemic they were managing school lessons over Zoom, and how in the heck can you write songs when your kids are home and your time is someone else’s?

It’s no wonder O’Donovan told me there are no wasted hours in her day and that she writes best while her body is in motion. Because when you’re a working mom, when is it not in motion?

Despite their limited time, both women have put out fantastic music recently. Russell’s first solo album Outside Child has been nominated for a GRAMMY for Best Americana Album, and the single “Nightflyer” has been nominated for two GRAMMYs in Best Americana Roots Performance & Best Americana Roots Song. O’Donovan has a fantastic new album Age of Apathy. The song “Prodigal Daughter” features Allison Russell.

Ben Bridwell from Band of Horses Feb 06, 2022

Ben talks to Ben: Songwriters on Process interviews Ben Bridwell from Band of Horses.
Fun fact: this is not the first time I've interviewed Bridwell. The first was in 2015, when the amazing Sera Cahoone hooked us up with each other.

Like most songwriters, Ben Bridwell from Band of Horses has found the past two years to be a bane to his creative process. With few exceptions, songwriters have told me that dark days are not conducive to creativity. As Carl Newman of The New Pornographers said to me, “Some people say that they write best when they're sad or depressed. I don't get that. Because when I'm sad or depressed, I'm crippled beyond writing.’” In our 2019 interview, Jim James of My Morning Jacket decried the myth of the tortured artist. Patterson Hood and Lilly Hiatt told me that they wrote a lot for about a month after the pandemic started, but that was it. Gloominess aside, if your songwriting centers around conversations you hear and people you see, what’s there to write about if you hear nothing and see nothing?

The pandemic has not been good for Ben Bridwell of Band of Horses. “It did not lead to me writing more stuff. It messed me up,” he told me. Large expanses of time—no touring, after all—have not led to more songwriting. In fact, all this time has made him feel “listless.” The breakup of Bridwell’s marriage has made things even tougher, and the freedom to write whenever he wants actually makes him want to write less. “All this freedom makes me push it away,” he says. “I never did that when there was structure. When I had a routine, it was easy to create. Without that, I’m listless.”
While Bridwell’s creative process may have changed in seven years because of family upheaval, one element remains constant: crossword puzzles. Just as he told me seven years ago, he uses crossword puzzles as a way to explore language and wordplay.

The latest album by Band of Horses is called Things are Great.

Intro to Songwriters on Process Feb 06, 2022

An introduction to the Songwriters on Process podcast

Related Podcasts