Some of My Best Friends Are

Introducing Fiasco: The Battle for Boston Feb 04, 2025

In 1974, a federal judge ruled that Boston’s public schools were unconstitutionally segregated. The solution? A controversial experiment in desegregation known as “busing,” which would take children from majority-white schools and bus them to predominantly Black schools, and vice versa. What followed was a year of upheaval, violence, and fierce protests, as Boston became a battleground for the heated national debate over school integration and racism in the North.

In this dramatic audiobook, journalist Leon Neyfakh (co-creator of the podcasts Slow Burn and Fiasco) unpacks the history of busing in Boston and brings to life the human stories behind the headlines. Listen on Pushkin.fm, Audible, Spotify or wherever you get audiobooks.

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Thank You For Being Some of Our Best Friends Aug 16, 2023

In the final episode of the show, Khalil and Ben talk with Chicago poet laureate avery r. young. He’s the multitalented interdisciplinary artist behind the podcast’s theme song, ‘Lil Lillie.’ They discuss the story behind the song and how racial justice influences his work. Ben and Khalil also reflect on their time working on this show.

To check out avery r. young’s work, go to his website: https://www.averyryoung.com/

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Samantha Irby is Quietly Hostile & Raucously Funny Aug 09, 2023

Ben and Khalil get personal with author and TV writer Samantha Irby on this week's show. Her bestselling essay collections Wow, No Thank You and We Are Never Meeting in Real Life are super intimate, full of gory details, and laugh-out-loud funny. She joins Ben and Khalil to talk about her latest book, Quietly Hostile; how she uses comedy as therapy; and her work on the latest season of the Sex and the City reboot And Just Like That...

Quietly Hostile by Samantha Irby

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The End of Affirmative Action Aug 02, 2023

The Supreme Court recently issued a decision banning race-conscious admission in higher education. In this episode, Ben and Khalil talk with Anurima Bhargava, who served in the Civil Rights Division of Obama’s Department of Justice focusing on education. Anurima also went to high school with Ben and Khalil at Kenwood Academy in Chicago. They talk about what’s great about going to a diverse school, as well as how the conservative movement plotted to get rid of affirmative action and what is lost as a result.

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Fantastic Future: Reimagining the American City Jul 26, 2023

This week, Ben and Khalil are talking about the future of cities. Their guest, Toni Griffin, is an architect, urban planner, and artist. She teaches at the Harvard School of Design, where she leads the Just City Lab, a team focused on community revitalization in city planning. Toni joins Ben and Khalil to talk about centering people in urban design, and her new show at the 2023 Venice Architecture Biennale that imagines "fantastic futures.”

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From The Last Archive: Acting Out Jul 19, 2023

Here’s a special episode from another Pushkin show we love -- The Last Archive. In the 1930s, at a women's reformatory in upstate New York, an upstart social scientist made a study that launched the field of social network analysis. It was revolutionary, but missed something happening at the same time at the same school, something we know now in part from the story of the school's most famous inmate: Ella Fitzgerald.

To hear the rest of the season, visit The Last Archive show page on Apple Podcasts, at pushkin.fm, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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America’s Poverty is by Design Jul 12, 2023

America is the richest country on earth, and yet we have the highest levels of poverty of any advanced democracy. Why is that? And what should we do about it? Matthew Desmond joins Ben and Khalil to discuss the rousing arguments of his new book Poverty, By America: we are all culpable for this problem, and it’s on us to fix it.

Additional links:

Poverty, By America by Matthew Desmond

Evicted: Poverty and Profit in the American City by Matthew Desmond

Correction: Parole, Prison and the Possibility of Change by Ben Austen

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Ben and Khalil Go South Jul 05, 2023

Ben and Khalil take a trip down South to Sewanee University, otherwise known as the University of the South. The school’s history is rooted in the Confederacy, and Ben and Khalil look at how that history belongs to all of America. Through various conversations and excursions, they explore what it means to be Southern, whether that identity can be made more expansive, and why the region defines every American.

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The FBI’s War on Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. Jun 28, 2023

Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. needs no introduction. The man changed the course of American history, and paid the ultimate price for his work. But in Jonathan Eig’s biography, King: A Life, we learn more about his personal life and struggle to overcome his own doubts about the Civil Rights movement. Eig joins Khalil and Ben to discuss his book and the new stories he uncovered from FBI documents about the life of Dr. King.

Additional links:
King, A Life by Jonathan Eig

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Immigrants Aren't the Problem Jun 21, 2023

Immigration in America is a humanitarian crisis and a political disaster. It has been for years. In this episode, Khalil and Ben talk to immigration lawyer, artist and activist Carolina Rubio-MacWright about current immigration policy, and what’s happening today in cities like Chicago and New York with ballooning populations of immigrants sent from border states. Carolina also shares the innovative ways she uses art and advocacy to connect with people at the heart of the crisis, people whom most of us can’t live without.

To learn more about Carolina’s workshops: https://www.touchingland.org/

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Are We in a Civil War? Jun 14, 2023

Jeff Sharlet started reporting from Donald Trump’s rallies in 2015, when his presidential campaign stoked a resurgence of white nationalism and white supremacy. Since then, Jeff has traveled the country exploring the growing threats and eruptions of political violence. He writes about these experiences in his New York Times bestselling book The Undertow: Scenes from a Slow Civil War, and he sat down with Ben and Khalil to discuss the book and his belief that we are, today, in the midst of a gradually unfolding civil war.

Additional links:

The Undertow by Jeff Sharlet

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To the Hip Hop You Don’t Stop with Jelani Cobb Jun 07, 2023

Ben and Khalil are joined by their friend Jelani Cobb, Dean of Columbia Journalism School and New Yorker staff writer, to talk about 50 years of hip hop. They discuss what the music meant to them growing up in Chicago and New York. They talk about the documentary Fight the Power: How Hip Hop Changed the World, and also about how the music’s legacy lives on.

Additional links:

Fight the Power: How Hip Hop Changed the World, Chuck D’s PBS documentary

Hip Hop at 50: An Elegy by Jelani Cobb for The New Yorker

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Ending the Cycle of Police Violence with Keith Ellison May 31, 2023

It’s been three years since George Floyd was murdered by the police. After a swell of action followed by inaction, an important question remains: What still needs to change to break the cycle of police violence in America? Khalil and Ben talk to Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison about prosecuting the officers who killed Floyd. The three also debate their visions of what justice looks like. This conversation was recorded live at the Chicago Humanities Festival.

Order Break the Wheel: Ending the Cycle of Police Violence here

To learn more about Chicago Humanities, visit their website: https://www.chicagohumanities.org/

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Truth and Reconciliation: A Lesson from South Africa May 03, 2023

Khalil talks to Ben about a recent trip he took to South Africa and what America can learn from the country’s efforts to reckon with its racist past. Nearly 30 years after apartheid ended, reconciliation remains elusive and reparations are still unpaid.

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Why Can't We Be Friends? Apr 26, 2023

Friendships like Ben and Khalil's are rare in America, according to the numbers. In this episode, they talk about the social science on interracial friendships, and about the particular conditions that made their friendship possible. Plus, why these friendships are important in bridging our deeply divided country.

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What’s Wrong with ‘You People’? Apr 19, 2023

Romance across race and religion has been the focus of a bunch of movies – some comedies, some dramas. Kenya Barris and Jonah Hill are taking a swing at it now, with their new movie, ‘You People.’ Ben and Khalil talk about its attempts to address the intricacies of a relationship between a Black, Muslim woman and a white, Jewish man. Is this a successful update to the 1967 classic ‘Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner’?

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Taking a Knee with Malcolm Gladwell Apr 12, 2023

Sports have always been political, despite what some fans might like to believe. So what role should athletes play in political movements? Malcolm Gladwell joins Ben and Khalil to discuss the history of activism in sports, including his recent podcast, Legacy of Speed, about Tommie Smith and John Carlos – two Black sprinters who raised their fists in protest at the 1968 Olympic Games.

Listen to Legacy of Speed at pushkin.fm, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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From Started From the Bottom: How Charlamagne Turned Failure Into Success Apr 05, 2023

Here’s a special episode from a new Pushkin podcast, Started From the Bottom. Host Justin Richmond interviews successful people with humble origins who managed to scale the summit of success – people who grew up on the outside, people of color, people who weren’t part of the old boys’ network. Justin recently sat down with media firebrand Charlamagne Tha God – over his 25 year career, he’s clawed his way to the top of the radio industry. Justin asked the long-time host of The Breakfast Club what it took for him – a young man suffering from anxiety, constantly in and out of jail – to become an icon of modern media. Hear more from Started From the Bottom at apple.co/thebottom.

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Can Multiracial Adoption End Racism? Mar 29, 2023

Matthew Guterl is a historian of race and nation at Brown University, and also Khalil’s other white best friend. He joins the show to discuss his powerful new memoir, Skinfolk. It’s about his experience growing up in New Jersey during the 1970s, part of a large family with multiracial and adopted siblings. The three of them have a frank conversation about family dynamics and the limits of transracial adoption.

You can order a copy of Skinfolk here: https://wwnorton.com/books/9781324091714

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The Jeffersons vs. Sanford & Son Mar 22, 2023

Ben and Khalil throw it back to the 1970s to talk about the TV shows they loved growing up – two of the greatest and most important sit-coms: Sanford & Son and The Jeffersons. They discuss how the shows handle race, class and comedy. And how the small screen and the world it reflects have changed since then.

If you’d like to rewatch Sanford & Son or The Jeffersons, both are available on Amazon Prime Video.

Further reading:

Tyre Nichols Wanted to Capture the Sunset - Clint Smith, The Atlantic

Monuments to the Unthinkable - Clint Smith, The Atlantic

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Kamala Harris for President? Mar 01, 2023

Jamal Simmons spent a year working as the communications director for Vice President Kamala Harris. In his first podcast interview since leaving the job, Jamal talks with Ben and Khalil about everything it takes to be vice president. What is the role of a VP? What challenges has Vice President Harris faced as the first woman of color to have the job? What should we make of criticisms of her from both the left and the right? What are VP Harris's prospects as a likely future presidential candidate?

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Florida Man Attacks ‘Woke’ Curriculum Feb 22, 2023

Florida Governor Ron DeSantis succeeded in stripping important ideas and essential people out of the new curriculum for the national Advanced Placement African American Studies course. Khalil and Ben discuss why people like DeSantis are working so hard to obscure parts of our history.

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Is a New Rainbow Coalition of Voters Possible? Feb 15, 2023

Legendary Chicago Mayor Harold Washington is the subject of a new documentary called “Punch 9 for Harold Washington.” In this week’s episode, Ben and Khalil discuss the legacy of the city’s first Black mayor. They are also joined by Rossana Rodriguez Sanchez, a Chicago alderwoman, who is working to revive a multi-racial alliance of progressive voters.

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We Know How to Solve Homelessness. We Just Need to Do It. Feb 08, 2023

There are roughly 600,000 people experiencing homelessness -- “houselessness”-- in the United States. Ben and Khalil talk with Dr. Heidi Behforouz about how to address a problem that is immense but not intractable. She is the Medical Director of Housing For Health in Los Angeles County, which creates a safety net for people that includes housing, medical care, social services and also dignity.

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Eve L. Ewing Into the Multiverse Feb 01, 2023

Eve L. Ewing is a renowned scholar, poet, teacher and cultural organizer. She also writes Marvel comic books, including Ironheart, which came to life on the big screen in the movie Black Panther: Wakanda Forever. Eve joins Ben and Khalil to discuss the importance of increasing racial representation in the superhero universe, and the backlash against it. Plus, why creatives should write for kids and take them seriously.

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The New Jane Crow Jan 25, 2023

Fifty years ago, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled on Roe v. Wade, guaranteeing a constitutional right to abortion. That is, until now. In this episode, Ben and Khalil talk with Dorothy Roberts – one of the nation’s leading scholars on the child welfare system and reproductive rights – about how the Dobbs decision is expected to have a disproportionate impact on Black women.

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“White Youth Must Choose Sides Now” Jan 18, 2023

Zayd Ayers Dohrn is a writer, professor, playwright who spent his early childhood on the run from the FBI. He joins Khalil and Ben to talk about being raised by founding members of the Weather Underground and his award-winning podcast, Mother Country Radicals. They also discuss what we can learn in the current moment from radical movements of the past.

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Introducing Brown Enough Jan 10, 2023

What does it mean to be Brown Enough in America today? That's a question Dominican-Colombian-American actor, storyteller, and podcaster Christopher Rivas has been navigating his whole life. Listen to this special episode of Brown Enough as Chris discusses the question "What are you?" with journalist and cartoonist Malaka Gharib. Brown Enough is the stories between Black and white. Listen to these stories every Wednesday on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever you listen.

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From Future Hindsight: Strategic Racism is a Divide and Conquer Scam with Ian Haney López Dec 29, 2022

Here's a preview of Future Hindsight, another podcast we enjoy that takes big ideas about civic life and democracy and turns them into action for everyday citizens. This episode features Ian Haney López, the Chief Justice Earl Warren Professor of Public Law at the University of California, Berkeley. He specializes in race and racism. His focus for the last decade has been on the use of racism in electoral politics, and how to respond. We discuss strategic racism and its antidote: race-class fusion politics. Strategic racism is a divide-and-conquer scam by elites that pushes us to hate each other while they rig the system for themselves. Race-class fusion politics is the antidote because it rejects the con and builds power with others across differences. Perhaps the real radicalism of race-class fusion politics today is the core radicalism of American democracy – a way of pushing power downward and outward to citizens. Hear more from Future Hindsight wherever you listen to your podcasts.

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Filmed On Location: What TV Tells Us About Who We Are Dec 13, 2022

As the HBO comedy South Side launches its third season, Chicago actor, director, playwright, and screenwriter J. Nicole Brooks joins Khalil and Ben to talk about why she is committed to working on TV shows set in her hometown, like South Side, The Chi, and Chicago Fire. They also discuss the Chicago-based TV show The Bear, what it means to represent a city authentically, and how it's possible to achieve the universal through the specific.

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Fighting For Voting Rights with Eric Holder Dec 06, 2022

Was voter participation in the 2022 midterms a sign of more democracy or less? Khalil and Ben sit down with former United States Attorney General Eric Holder to answer this question. They talk about key moments from Eric’s childhood that inspired him to fight for voting rights, both while serving in the Obama administration and after. He also shares his thoughts on the fragility of democracy, and what’s currently at stake.

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"F*** Him, But F*** Jail": The Power of Restorative Justice Nov 29, 2022

Danielle Sered is the founder and director of Common Justice, the first alternative-to-incarceration and victim-service program in the United States. She’s also the author of Until We Reckon: Violence, Mass Incarceration, and a Road to Repair. She speaks with Khalil and Ben about her work to re-envision justice as something that can address the trauma of victims and stop the cycle of punishment and crime.

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“Everything Dope Comes from Chicago” Nov 22, 2022

Sherman “Dilla” Thomas has become the face of Chicago history on TikTok, TV and in tours. So Khalil and Ben go on a mission to find out how Dilla became the city’s number one booster. We hear how Thomas was influenced by the stories told by his father, a Chicago police officer, and the influence of hometown Black politicians who were making history right in front of him. But mainly, he says, he’s driven by curiosity about how the city became what it is, and he wanted to bond with his kids by becoming the coolest dad on TikTok.

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How Textbooks Made America Not So Great Nov 15, 2022

Khalil and Ben talk with Donald Yacovone about his book, Teaching White Supremacy. In the midst of new laws to ban books about race and the teaching of slavery, Yacovone digs through thousands of school textbooks and finds that most already emphasize whiteness as the core of our national identity. We’ll talk about how the history we’ve been teaching over the last 300 years isn’t necessarily the history we made, and how that has informed our current social crisis.

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Brown Enough: Embracing The Middle Space Nov 08, 2022

Actor, podcast host and author Christopher Rivas attributes his own racial awakening to the moment he learned the “real” James Bond was Dominican. Rivas tells the story of Porfirio Rubirosa to Khalil and Ben, and talks about his new book, Brown Enough. We’ll also ask what it means to be Brown — specifically Latinx — in a country where most conversations about race are Black and white.

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The Boys Are Back in Town: Live from Chicago Nov 01, 2022

Khalil and Ben revisit the city where their friendship began. They speak on stage at the 2022 Chicago Humanities Festival. Come for the tales of Ben’s first job delivering bagels around Chi-town and Khalil’s first discovery that he had a Chicago accent — stay for the real connection with a hometown audience, and a conversation about the hard work of studying and loving a city that can be tough to love at times.

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We Can’t Friend Our Way out of White Supremacy Nov 01, 2022

Saladin Ambar is author of a new book, Stars and Shadows: The Politics of Interracial Friendship from Jefferson to Obama. He’s also a political science professor at Rutgers and host of The Eagleton Podcast: This Moment in Democracy. Ambar talks with Ben and Khalil about the complex stakes of interracial friendships throughout US history. Ambar’s ten case studies include the famous bond between Ella Fitzgerald and Marilyn Monroe and the relationship between former president Barack Obama and his VP Joe Biden. We hear a frank conversation about the political challenges, and political purposes, of interracial friendship in a fraught society.

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Some of My Best Friends Are... Back! Oct 25, 2022

Khalil and Ben return for more real talk about the absurdities and intricacies of race in America. Each week, they'll invite some of their new best friends, like former Attorney General Eric Holder, restorative justice leader Danielle Sered, and Chicago historian Sherman "Dilla" Thomas for conversations that are at once personal, political, and playful. Some Of My Best Friends Are... Season 2 drops Tuesdays starting November 1st.

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The Good, The Bad and The Funny Dec 16, 2021

In the final episode of the season, Khalil and Ben delve into how the “some of my best friends are…” trope functions in the world of comedy, particularly when comics like Dave Chappelle use it as social commentary. Spoiler alert: it doesn’t always work.

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Being Jewish with Sascha Penn Dec 09, 2021

Khalil has been dying to talk to Ben about his relationship with Judaism and whiteness all season. In this episode, Khalil and Ben invite Ben’s other best friend Sascha Penn, the creator and executive producer of the television show Raising Kanan, to join the conversation. Together they take a look at Ben and Sascha’s identities and how being Jewish has inspired their writing about race and racism.

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Crime, Fear and Alternatives to Policing Dec 02, 2021

Reeling from a terrible string of crimes that happened recently in Ben’s neighborhood in Chicago, Khalil and Ben wrestle with the question of how to respond to violence so people can feel safe, without over-policing communities.

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Unpacking Our Identities with Jay Caspian Kang Nov 18, 2021

Khalil and Ben talk with New York Times journalist and author Jay Caspian Kang about his new memoir, The Loneliest Americans, and his experience growing up Asian in America. In this episode, the three men — one White, one Black, one Asian — discuss notions of identity that divide the country, and how one race experiences invisibility as a result.

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Fighting Inequities Through Art Nov 11, 2021

Khalil and Ben talk with two Chicago artists they admire who are calling for justice through their work–in museums and on the streets. Tonika Johnson, an activist and photographer, takes Ben for a drive to describe her latest project, Inequity for Sale, an art project on reparations and housing. Later, Amanda Williams, a Chicago artist, joins to discuss her works, Color(ed) Theory and the Black Reconstruction Collective Manifesto at MoMA.

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Black Martha’s Vineyard Oct 28, 2021

For nearly a decade, Khalil and Ben have vacationed together at the magical beach town of Oak Bluffs, MA – a historically Black enclave of predominantly-White Martha’s Vineyard. In this episode,Ben and Khalil reflect on the summers they’ve spent there, the transformative beauty of that corner of the world, and the legacy of race and power at the beach.

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Introducing: Some of My Other Best Friends with Jacqueline Stewart Oct 25, 2021

Introducing our new, subscriber-exclusive bonus series, "Some of My Other Best Friends..." Each month, Ben and Khalil invite one of their *other* best friends to talk through unanswered questions and further debate a recent Some of My Best Friends Are... episode. In our first bonus episode, Ben and Khalil are joined by Turner Classic Movies host and Academy Museum of Motion Pictures artistic director, Jacqueline Stewart, for a deep dive on Interracial Buddy Movies.

Some Of My Other Best Friends will be available via PushNik – our subscription program on Apple Podcasts. To listen to these bonus episodes, visit our show page in Apple Podcasts and start your free trial.

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How The Obamas Talk About Race Oct 14, 2021

In the weeks after the groundbreaking of the Obama Presidential Library, Khalil and Ben revisit the Obama memoirs, Becoming and A Promised Land: Volume I, on how the Obamas talked about race and racism. From Obama’s retelling of the financial crisis to Michelle’s upbringing on the south side of Chicago, Ben and Khalil discuss how American exceptionalism is intrinsically tied to the Obamas’ stories and their vision of America.

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Tennis Lessons Oct 07, 2021

Still basking in the glow of the 2021 US Open, Ben and Khalil take a trip down memory lane to talk about what it was like growing up on South Side Chicago’s predominantly Black tennis scene. From Khalil’s mother watching Arthur Ashe in the 1970s, to the Williams Sisters and Naomi Osaka changing the game, they break down why this sport is in a league of its own when it comes to Black female athleticism.

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Critical Race Theory in the Classroom Sep 30, 2021

Can you stop history from repeating itself? That's a question Khalil and Ben ponder at the start of this school year amid conservative attacks and legislation across the country on the teaching of our shared history. They discuss the 1619 Project, the weaponizing of “Critical Race Theory”, its backlash, and the best ways to actually teach American history.

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Another Candyman Movie Sep 23, 2021

To celebrate the release of the new Candyman reboot, Khalil and Ben revisit the original 1992 film and discuss its deep connections to time and place. They then dive into the 2021 reboot, exploring how each film portrays Chicago, public housing, gentrification, and the ghosts that still inhabit the city. Do you dare say his name five times? Ben and Khalil are up for the challenge!

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European Prisons vs. American Prisons Sep 16, 2021

On the heels of the 50th anniversary of the Attica Prison Uprising, Khalil and Ben discuss trips they took, separately, to visit prisons in Europe. How did the Nazi occupation influence Germany’s modern day prison system? How do guards and incarcerated people interact inside of Norwegian prisons? And why is America’s criminal justice system so broken? Ben and Khalil answer these questions and more, while reminiscing over what made these trips so monumental, and debating whether or not what they observed abroad could ever be replicated back home.

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Interracial Buddies, Interracial Films Sep 09, 2021

Khalil and Ben reflect on the formative movies they saw in theaters growing up that portrayed white and Black men as friends–mainly the 1980’s classics 48 Hrs. and Lethal Weapon. How did these films shape public views on racism and the police? What did they say about being white and Black men at the time? Khalil and Ben share their take–examining the racial tensions in 48 Hrs. and its reaction to the reconstruction period of the Civil Rights Movement, and shedding light on the Cold War politics of Lethal Weapon.

For a transcript of this episode visit https://www.pushkin.fm/show/some-of-my-best-friends-are/

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Introducing: Some of My Best Friends Are Jul 26, 2021

Coming September 9th, from Pushkin Industries.

Some of My Best Friends Are… is a podcast hosted by Khalil Gibran Muhammad and Ben Austen, two best friends who grew up together on the South Side of Chicago in the 1980s. Today a Harvard professor and an award-winning journalist, Khalil and Ben still go to each other to talk about their experiences with the absurdities and intricacies of race in America. In Some of My Best Friends Are..., they invite listeners into their unfiltered conversations about growing up together in a deeply-divided country, and navigating that divide as it exists today.

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