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Alicia Svigals: Uncourageously Obscure Jan 24, 2020

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Violinist Alicia Svigals talks about the erotics of dishwashing. ABOUT THE GUESTAlicia Svigals is violinist, composer, and co-founder of the Grammy-winning Klezmatics. She has taught and toured with violinist Itzhak Perlman and has composed for the Kronos Quartet, has appeared in stadium shows with Robert Plant and Jimmy Page of Led Zeppelin, recorded for John Cale's album Last Day On Earth, and the Ben Folds Five's Whatever and Ever Amen. Her debut album Fidl was instrumentation in reviving the tradition of klezmer fiddling, and in 2018 she released the album Bergovski Suite with jazz pianist Uli Geissendoerfer. Recently she has been commissioned to compose scores for silent films, including The Yellow Ticket and Das Alte Gesetz. More info at https://aliciasvigals.com. ABOUT THE HOST Neil Goldberg is an artist in NYC who makes work that The New York Times has described as "tender, moving and sad but also deeply funny." His work is in the permanent collection of MoMA, he's a Guggenheim Fellow, and teaches at the Yale School of Art. More information at neilgoldberg.com. ABOUT THE TITLE SHE'S A TALKER was the name of Neil's first video project. "One night in the early 90s I was combing my roommate's cat and found myself saying the words 'She's a talker.' I wondered how many other other gay men in NYC might be doing the exact same thing at that very moment. With that, I set out on a project in which I videotaped over 80 gay men in their living room all over NYC, combing their cats and saying 'She's a talker.'" A similar spirit of NYC-centric curiosity and absurdity animates the podcast. CREDITS This series is made possible with generous support from Stillpoint Fund. Producer: Devon Guinn Creative Consultants: Aaron Dalton, Molly Donahue Mixer: Andrew Litton Visuals and Sounds: Joshua Graver Theme Song: Jeff Hiller Website: Itai AlmorMedia: Justine Lee Interns: Alara Degirmenci, Jonathan Jalbert, Jesse KimothoThanks: Jennifer Callahan, Nick Rymer, Sue Simon, Maddy Sinnock TRANSCRIPTION ALICIA SVIGALS: I have, over the years, you know, since we got married in 2011, done that thing that I was doing before with "partner" and "my significant" - uncourageously obscured the fact that I'm a lesbian and... NEIL GOLDBERG: Uncourageously obscure could be the title of my autobiography. NEIL: Hello, I'm Neil Goldberg and this is SHE'S A TALKER. This is the first episode of season two, and we'll be back with new episodes every Friday. Today I'll be talking with violinist Alicia Svigals. If this is your first time listening, here's the premise of the podcast: I'm a visual artist, and for the past million or so years, I've been jotting down thoughts, observations, and reflections, often about things that might otherwise get overlooked or go unnoticed. I write them on index cards, and I've got thousands of them. I originally wrote the cards just for me, or maybe to use in future art projects, but now I'm using them as prompts for conversations with some of my favorite artists, writers, performers, and beyond. These days, the cards often start as recordings I make into my phone here and there over the course of the day. Each episode I start with some recent ones. Here they are: NEIL: The particular Grim Reaper-gloom of a rolly bag coming up behind you. NEIL: Sleeping naked, but wearing a mouth guard. NEIL: People in New York get so jovial when they see you carrying a pizza box. NEIL: I am so excited to have as my guest, my dear friend, Alicia Svigals. Alicia is a world-class violinist who specializes in klezmer. If you're not familiar with klezmer, here's Alicia playing at the River To River Festival… [Klezmer music plays]… Klezmer was originally a type of Eastern European Jewish music that then came to the United States and became influenced by jazz. Alicia was one of the founders of the Klezmatics who won a Grammy. She's played with all kinds of fancy people like Itzhak Perlman, John Cale of the Velvet Underground, and Jimmy Page and Robert Plant of Led Zeppelin, which was just a brunch where we listened to Led Zeppelin, which turns out to be a great combination. Here's our conversation. NEIL: Alicia Svigals. Thank you so much for being in SHE'S A TALKER. We went to college together. We've known each other for more than 30 years, but, um, I do like to ask everyone, I'm about to sit down next to you on a plane. Hey, what do you do? ALICIA: I'm a violinist and a composer. Uh, I specialize in a kind of traditional East European Jewish music called klezmer music, which, you know, in the past people would be like, "Oh, what?" And now they're like, "Oh yeah, of course I know that." NEIL: Right, right. It's almost like the way coming out has kind of changed, although maybe without the shame element, or maybe not. ALICIA: I know that the shame element is there. It's a little apologetic, like I'm a violinist composer, well, not like a classical violinist. ALICIA: I do this weird thing. NEIL: Yeah. Yeah. It vaguely reminds me of how my referencing my husband has changed. You know what I mean? When Jeff and I got married, we did kind of make an informal commitment that we would just always use 'husband' as a way to kind of desensitize the world to it. Yeah. If we were going to take advantage of that privilege. NEIL: Um, but now I, I usually don't think twice about it. ALICIA: Wow. NEIL: How about you? ALICIA: I think about it practically, I mean, absolutely every single time, it always feels weird and awkward and like I'm pretending it's no big deal, and there's a social contract now that of course it's no big deal, and everybody secretly in their mind thinks it's a very big deal. NEIL: Exactly. ALICIA: I'm wondering, like, how has their entire vision of me now changed and are they, have they stopped listening to what I'm saying? Cause there's digesting that... NEIL: Right. When you're meeting someone for the first time and you just drop a "wife." ALICIA: Yeah, or if I'm in a professional context. NEIL: For me, I always feel like, to your point, that every time I use "husband", it's a little micro acting exercise. You know? ALICIA: It's like... NEIL: It's performing casualness. ALICIA: Exactly. Like, and everybody knows it's a performance. So the conversation was doing whatever it was doing and it was normal, and all of a sudden we're faced with that moment like, what else are we going to do? We have no choice. Either we're going to perform casualness and feel weird and fake about that, or we're going to, uh, uncourageously obfuscate, or there's a third possibility, which I've seen people do, which is to say like, be sort of transparent about all that, but then you've made a big deal of something perhaps unnecessarily. NEIL: Right. How has that sounded? Like, "I'm gay and I have a husband." ALICIA: You know, I'm not even sure, I've seen other people do it and I haven't liked it, so I'm not sure, but it... Yeah, exactly. "I'm gay and I have a husband." NEIL: All right. Now, another question I like to ask people is, uh, what is something you were thinking about today? ALICIA: I mean, since I woke up. NEIL: I'll let you define 'today'. ALICIA: Okay. Okay. Okay. Cause I don't usually start thinking till about one or two. NEIL: Oh, okay. ALICIA: And it's still early. NEIL: So you haven't thought about anything yet? ALICIA: Not very much, but some - okay, some of the things I'll tell you, I thought, um... I hope that Ellen, my wife, hears me doing the dishes because she has told me that turns her on. NEIL: Do you think she's saying that just as a way to get you to do the dishes? ALICIA: You know, I have discussed that at length with my therapist and she says, I need to take that literally. NEIL: Wow, okay. ALICIA: And all kinds of things turn people on. And that's not even a weird one in her experience here. And hearing all kinds of things from all kinds of people, because, for a lot of people, having the other person do the dishes means they're being taken care of. NEIL: Oh yeah, totally. ALICIA: You know, for some people, you know, they want to wear diapers. NEIL: Exactly. ALICIA: No, we don't do that. NEIL: Okay. ALICIA: So maybe... NEIL: No judgement if you did though, but, but feeling taken care of doesn't necessarily map directly onto being turned on. Like I feel very taken care of by Jeff often. I guess sometimes that can be a turn on. It lives in a different space though. ALICIA: Right. ALICIA: For me too. But apparently there are a lot of people, like it's a very common thing. They won't feel turned on until they feel taken care of. It's really, really separate for me. Like I'm sure it's connected somewhere in there, sometimes in some ways, in some fantasies and so forth. But, um, according to my shrink, who is a genius - NEIL: Yeah. ALICIA: And is the smartest person I've ever met. NEIL: Wow. ALICIA: Kind of hoping she'll listen to this. NEIL: Do you want to do the dishes too, while you're at it? ALICIA: Anyway, I tend to think that my way of thinking and feeling and... My brain is really the right way. And other people's, if it's different, they must be making it up, they must be putting it on. It must be a ploy to get me to do the dishes. And I wrote the quote somewhere, somebody who said, "Everybody's got a weird brain", and I really like it, and I try to remind myself, and everybody's got a weird brain. NEIL: Absolutely. I love not being in therapy anymore. ALICIA: Oh you're not in therapy anymore? NEIL: No. After, after, I think almost 25 years on the dot. ALICIA: Wow. NEIL: Um, we terminated like, uh, three or four years ago now, maybe three years. I love it. ALICIA: Wow. Wow. NEIL: You don't spend the money and you have the time and you don't have to kind of think about yourself in that same way. NEIL: You don't have that accountability. ALICIA: Yeah, the time part I, you know, couldn't relate to. Um, I feel like currently I'm like a snake in the process of getting ready to shed its skin. There's no crisis. Knock wood, you know, cheap too. But I feel like a transformation is going to happen. NEIL: That's great. ALICIA: I can't imagine leaving. NEIL: Although, sorry, not to be a buzzkill, but, um, that's the thing that I'm happy not to have going on for me in therapy, which is the feeling of like, okay, life is just ahead of you. You know what I mean? And, and when I would say this to my therapist, he would be like, that's not the way to be holding this. But I found it hard to avoid that. I mean, toward the end, it, there was an alignment of like the, you know, the me who was in therapy, but also living my life and feeling like this is also my life. ALICIA: You know, you're right. Like I'm, I am thinking of it as life is going to be so great once the skin - it's very itchy now, but once I've shed the skin. NEIL: Yeah. ALICIA: And yeah, that's problematic. And, uh, one day I think I probably would like to no longer be the kind of person who's like talking about themselves and their therapy, which I think is probably boring to most people. NEIL: Oh, I know. I don't think talking about therapy stops after your - case in point - stops after you're in therapy. Here I am. NEIL: Alicia, let's look at some of these cards now. Okay. I've picked out some cards, especially for you. Our first card is the diplomacy of saying a child resembles one parent or another. ALICIA: Oh... NEIL: You and Ellen are a very specific case of this, if you'd care to share with our podcast audience. ALICIA: Right. We're a specific case of this, because, um, we each gave birth to one of our sons with the same anonymous donor. They're very much alike in a lot of ways, and they're each very much like each of us, and it's, it's a different case because we're not competing to be the one whose traits appeared more. ALICIA: It's just a lovely thing to hear that, you know, one of them looks like one of us, um, because it means our genes worked at all. NEIL: Yeah, that's a great way to put it. Cause I feel very skeptical about whether my jeans would work. ALICIA: I'm sure they would, Neil. NEIL: Well, thank you. Isn't it, it always grosses me out when one kid looks powerfully like one of the parents, you know what I mean? It speaks of like their parents fucking in it somehow, it's like a big genetic smear or something like a litter of pups. ALICIA: There's something like biologically obscene about it. NEIL: Exactly. Biologically obscene. ALICIA: Yeah, like an infestation. NEIL: Exactly. Exactly. ALICIA: It's like it kind of, impolitely exposes biology too much and it's rude. NEIL: Exactly, it's like someone flashing you or something. ALICIA: It's rude. Cause we're supposed to be self-made individuals and we were supposed to have created our own faces. If I didn't have our personalities and which we chose, which we selected using our moral rectitude. NEIL: We are not bodies. We are pure. You know, in that whole kind of mind. ALICIA: Ether, mind. Where my, like, Ooh, we must be bodies cause those two completely different people look exactly alike. NEIL: Oh yeah, exactly. Disgusting. NEIL: Next card. As soon as I stub my toe, I look for someone to blame. ALICIA: How did you know that about me? NEIL: I guess we're similar in that way. Not everyone's that way. ALICIA: Oh, it is so... When, when the boys were little, one of them, I'm not going to say who, cause you know, it's a little personal. NEIL: 50/50 chance though. Two kids, Ben and Philip. ALICIA: True. True. NEIL: If you're listening, this is about one of you. ALICIA: But I'm respecting your privacy, cause it's just, it's all, you get all the plausible deniability if it's a 50/50 chance. So if he, like, fell, or if he stubbed his toe, like let's say he hurt himself on the floor, he would bang that floor, angry at the floor. NEIL: When he was a kid? ALICIA: Yeah, hitting the floor, mad at the floor. He was mad at the object that hurt him. But I absolutely, I stub my toe and I try to think of whose fault was that. Isn't that nutty? NEIL: Absolutely. It's horrible. Jeff is not like that. ALICIA: I don't care if they hear it, but my parents are totally... My mom... Mom, I love you. But you know, you're always looking for the blame. And I'm always like, and of course, you know, I'm always trying to blame Ellen, and right? NEIL: Right? Yeah, of course. Proximity. ALICIA: And it all seems like completely reasonable to me until I notice I do it even when I stub my toe. And then it's like, wait a minute... NEIL: I mean, I guess it begs the question, what are the consequences of there not being - ALICIA: Someone to blame - NEIL: There's no fault. ALICIA: Man. NEIL: What, I mean, in a way, that's a beautiful moment somehow. I think it's also like a very scary moment. ALICIA: Frightening, out of control, random. NEIL: Right. But also free somehow. I think? I don't know, whatever part of the brain that assigns blame to discharge that. ALICIA: Perfectible. Cause if the person would only not. Then no one would stub their toe again if they'd only get it right. NEIL: Next card. I know you, at a certain point in your life, were a subway musician. I'm going to say somet…

Full show notes at the publisher

John Early: Jazz Hands in the Face of Global Collapse Dec 20, 2019

Show notes

Comedian John Early talks about blooper reel politics and the challenges of performing sleep.

ABOUT THE GUEST: John Early is a comedian and actor who plays Elliott in the television show Search Party and has appeared on Thirty Rock, Difficult People, Broad City, At Home with Amy Sedaris, Los Espookys and many others. He has also written and starred in his own episode of Netflix's The Characters and co-wrote and starred in the Vimeo Plus series 555 with Kate Berlant.

ABOUT THE HOST: Neil Goldberg is an artist in NYC who makes work that The New York Times has described as "tender, moving and sad but also deeply funny." His work is in the permanent collection of MoMA, he's a Guggenheim Fellow, and teaches at the Yale School of Art. More information at neilgoldberg.com.

ABOUT THE TITLE: SHE'S A TALKER was the name of Neil's first video project. "One night in the early 90s I was combing my roommate's cat and found myself saying the words 'She's a talker.' I wondered how many other other gay men in NYC might be doing the exact same thing at that very moment. With that, I set out on a project in which I videotaped over 80 gay men in their living room all over NYC, combing their cats and saying 'She's a talker.'" A similar spirit of NYC-centric curiosity and absurdity animates the podcast.

CREDITS: This series is made possible with generous support from Stillpoint Fund. Producer: Devon Guinn Creative Consultants: Stella Binion, Aaron Dalton, Molly Donahue Assistant Producers: Itai Almor, Charlie Theobald Editor: Andrew Litton Visuals and Sounds: Joshua Graver Theme Song: Jeff Hiller Media: Justine Lee with help from Angela Liao and Alex Qiao Thanks: Jennifer Callahan, Roger Kingsepp, Tod Lippy, Nick Rymer, Maddy Sinnock, Sue Simon, Shirin Mazdeyasna

TRANSCRIPT

Miguel Gutierrez: Touch My Actual Body Dec 13, 2019

Show notes

Choreographer Miguel Gutierrez talks about the beauty of confident mistakes and what you can learn about people by how they handle fruit.

ABOUT THE GUEST: Miguel Gutierrez is a choreographer, composer, performer, singer, writer, educator and advocate who has lived in New York for over twenty years. He has been presented in more than 60 cities around the world, in venues such as at Centre Pompidou, Festival Universitario, ImPulsTanz, Walker Art Center, MCA Chicago, and the 2014 Whitney Biennial. He is a Guggenheim and has received four Bessies. More information at miguelgutierrez.org.

ABOUT THE HOST: Neil Goldberg is an artist in NYC who makes work that The New York Times has described as "tender, moving and sad but also deeply funny." His work is in the permanent collection of MoMA and other museums, he's a Guggenheim Fellow, and teaches at the Yale School of Art. More information at neilgoldberg.com.

Roz Chast: Making Each Other Less Miserable Dec 06, 2019

Show notes

Cartoonist Roz Chast talks about arsenic-infused wallpaper and the occasional dutifulness of "I love you, too."

ABOUT THE GUEST: Roz Chast has had her cartoons and covers featured in The New Yorker magazine since 1978. She is the author of several cartoon collections and children's books. Her graphic memoir, Can't We Talk About Something More Pleasant?, won the National Book Critics Circle Award and was short-listed for a National Book Award in 2014. You Can Only Yell at Me for One Thing at a Time: Rules for Couples, an illustrated collection of love and relationship advice from writer Patricia Marx, with illustrations by Roz, will be released in January 2020. More info at rozchast.com.

ABOUT THE HOST: Neil Goldberg is an artist in NYC who makes work that The New York Times has described as "tender, moving and sad but also deeply funny." His work is in the permanent collection of MoMA and other museums, he's a Guggenheim Fellow, and teaches at the Yale School of Art. More information at neilgoldberg.com.

Robert Reid-Pharr: Forever 54 Nov 29, 2019

Show notes

Cultural critic Robert Reid-Pharr examines the existential choice between elapsed time and remaining time on the elliptical.

ABOUT THE GUEST: Robert Reid-Pharr is a Professor of Studies of Women, Gender, and Sexuality and of African and African American Studies at Harvard. He is the author of four books: Archives of Flesh: African America, Spain, and Post-Humanist Critique, Conjugal Union: The Body, the House, and the Black American; Black, Gay, Man: Essays; and Once You Go Black: Choice, Desire, and the Black American Intellectual.

ABOUT THE HOST: Neil Goldberg is an artist in NYC who makes work that The New York Times has described as "tender, moving and sad but also deeply funny." His work is in the permanent collection of MoMA and other museums, he's a Guggenheim Fellow, and teaches at the Yale School of Art. More information at neilgoldberg.com.

CREDITS: This series is made possible with generous support from Stillpoint Fund. Producer: Devon Guinn Creative Consultants: Stella Binion, Aaron Dalton, Molly Donahue Assistant Producers: Itai Almor, Charlie Theobald Editor: Fraser McCulloch Visuals and Sounds: Joshua Graver Theme Song: Jeff Hiller Media: Justine Lee with help from Angela Liao and Alex Qiao

Karen Sherman: The Smell of Dance Nov 22, 2019

Show notes

Choreographer Karen Sherman talks about the politics of applause and the olfactory landscape of the stage.

ABOUT THE GUEST: Karen Sherman makes performances that have been presented by P.S. 122, Walker Art Center, Center for the Art of Performance at UCLA, PICA/TBA Festival, Highways Performance Space, Philadelphia Dance Projects, and many other spaces across the U.S. Her work has been recognized with a Bessie Award, two McKnight Foundation Fellowships in Choreography, several MacDowell Colony fellowships, and residencies through Vermont Performance Lab and the Bogliasco Foundation program in Liguria, Italy. She was a 2016-2017 Hodder Fellow in The Lewis Center for the Arts at Princeton University. More information at karenshermanperformance .org.

ABOUT THE HOST: Neil Goldberg is an artist in NYC who makes work that The New York Times has described as "tender, moving and sad but also deeply funny." His work is in the permanent collection of MoMA and other museums, he's a Guggenheim Fellow, and teaches at the Yale School of Art. More information at neilgoldberg.com.

Mike Albo: Hand Model Anxiety Nov 15, 2019

Show notes

Writer and performer Mike Albo talks about enthusiasm as a gay survival strategy and the erotics of fermented food.

ABOUT THE GUEST: Mike Albo is a writer, performer, humorist and author. His novels include Hornito (HarperCollins) and The Underminer: The Best Friend Who Casually Destroys Your Life (BloomsburyUSA), co-written with Virginia Heffernan. His solo shows, Spermhood and The Junket, have been presented nationally. You can find him on Instagram and Twitter.

ABOUT THE HOST: Neil Goldberg is an artist in NYC who makes work that The New York Times has described as "tender, moving and sad but also deeply funny." His work is in the permanent collection of MoMA and other museums, he's a Guggenheim Fellow, and teaches at the Yale School of Art. More information at neilgoldberg.com.

CREDITS: This series is made possible with generous support from Stillpoint Fund. Producer: Devon Guinn Creative Consultants: Stella Binion, Aaron Dalton, Molly Donahue Assistant Producers: Itai Almor, Charlie Theobald Editor: Fraser McCulloch Visuals and Sounds: Joshua Graver Theme Song: Jeff Hiller Media: Justine Lee with help from Angela Liao and Alex Qiao

Jia Tolentino: The Wish to Die in Space Nov 08, 2019

Show notes

Writer Jia Tolentino contemplates whether animals can feel embarrassed for other animals and explores her desire to die in space. ABOUT THE GUEST: Jia Tolentino is a staff writer at the New Yorker and the author of the essay collection Trick Mirror. Formerly, she was the deputy editor at Jezebel and a contributing editor at the Hairpin. Her work has also appeared in the New York Times Magazine and Pitchfork, among other places. She lives in Brooklyn.

ABOUT THE HOST: Neil Goldberg is an artist in NYC who makes work that The New York Times has described as "tender, moving and sad but also deeply funny." His work is in the permanent collection of MoMA and other museums, he's a Guggenheim Fellow, and teaches at the Yale School of Art. More information at neilgoldberg.com.

Morgan Bassichis: The Labor of the Face Nov 01, 2019

Show notes

Performer Morgan Bassichis talks about the drama of sealing an envelope and the pleasure of leaving parties early. ABOUT THE GUEST: Morgan Bassichis is a comedic performer whose recent shows include Nibbling the Hand That Feeds Me in the 2019 Whitney Biennial, Klezmer for Beginners at Abrons Arts Center (2019), Damned If You Duet at the Kitchen (2018), and More Protest Songs! at Danspace Project (2018). Morgan has presented work at the New Museum, the Brooklyn Museum, Hirshhorn Museum, MoMA PS1, the Portland Institute of Contemporary Art. They have contributed writing to Artforum, Radical History Review, Captive Genders, and the 2019 edition of The Faggots & Their Friends Between Revolutions (1977).

ABOUT THE HOST: Neil Goldberg is an artist in NYC who makes work that The New York Times has described as "tender, moving and sad but also deeply funny." His work is in the permanent collection of MoMA and other museums, he's a Guggenheim Fellow, and teaches at the Yale School of Art. More information at neilgoldberg.com.

TRANSCRIPT

Naomi Ekperigin: And Yet We Brunch Oct 25, 2019

Show notes

Comedian Naomi Ekperigin discusses her feelings about the spacebar key and the wisdom of not trusting your gut.

ABOUT THE GUEST: Naomi Ekperigin is an actor, stand-up comedian and writer who has appeared on Late Night with Seth Meyers, Two Dope Queens, and her own Comedy Central Half Hour special. Naomi has written for Comedy Central's Broad City, Hulu's Difficult People, and NBC's Great News. In 2017, she was listed as one of "10 Comedians You Need to Know" by Rolling Stone. Check out her podcast, with co-host/financé Andy Beckerman, at couplestherapypod.com.

ABOUT THE HOST: Neil Goldberg is an artist in NYC who makes work that The New York Times has described as "tender, moving and sad but also deeply funny." His work is in the permanent collection of MoMA and other museums, he's a Guggenheim Fellow, and teaches at the Yale School of Art. More information at neilgoldberg.com.

TRANSCRIPT

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