Science of Perception Box - Unlikely Collaborators

Latest Episodes:

Can a Plant, a Chatbot, or Your Gut Be Conscious? With Michael Pollan Oct 14, 2026

Show notes

In this special live episode, journalist and bestselling author Michael Pollan explains how a psychedelic experience “smudged the windshield” of his consciousness and started the search behind his new book, A World Appears. He explains the difference between sentience and consciousness and shares some surprising plant research: corn that solves mazes, plants that recognize their relatives, and anesthetics that knock out a Venus flytrap. Pollan’s exploration of consciousness reveals a central idea of the Perception Box, a framework developed by Elizabeth R. Koch for understanding the forces within us that shape how we see ourselves, relate to others, and move through the world.

Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City.

Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science.

Join us for new episodes every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever podcasts are found.

Love the show? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend about the show.

Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information.

Chapters:

00:00 Intro

03:29 How psychedelics “smudged the windshield”

08:41 Are plants conscious?

16:03 Can machines be conscious?

18:53 Do we need a cortex to be conscious?

23:53 Materialism vs. idealism

33:17 The microbiome and embodied consciousness

34:53 Why the brain isn’t a computer

40:15 How gut bacteria shape the mind

48:55 Consciousness hygiene

55:00 The Perception Box question

The ‘Self’ You Can’t Find with Sam Harris Oct 07, 2026

Show notes

Most of us feel like there's a "me" behind our eyes, a thinker of our thoughts and author of our choices. Author and Waking Up founder Sam Harris argues that when you look closely enough, that self disappears. Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christof Koch dig into why the sense of self may be something the brain constructs moment to moment, and why free will, in Sam's view, doesn't hold up to either physics or careful attention. Along the way they explore what meditation and psychedelics reveal about the mind, why denying free will isn't fatalism, and why Sam sees that as grounds for optimism about how much we can change. Sam’s exploration into free will reveals a central idea of the Perception Box, a framework developed by Elizabeth R. Koch for understanding the forces within us that shape how we see ourselves, relate to others, and move through the world.

Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City.

Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science.

Join us for new episodes every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever podcasts are found.

Love the show? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend about the show.

Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information.

Chapters:

0:00 Intro

6:50 Self-consciousness and the neuroscience of self

12:50 Do we have free will?

24:00 Waking up: lucid dreaming and meditation

29:20 Intrusive thoughts and what we can control

31:00 Psychedelics and meditation

38:45 Can free will be settled?

The Physics of Consciousness Sep 30, 2026

Show notes

Theoretical physicist Dr. Michio Kaku joins hosts Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christof Koch to explore what physics can teach us about consciousness and reality itself. Dr. Kaku argues that consciousness is best understood as feedback loops, shaping the walls of our own Perception Box™ long before we're aware of it. The conversation asks if quantum mechanics has anything to do with a "warm, wet" brain, illuminating a central idea of the Perception Box, a framework developed by Elizabeth R. Koch for understanding the forces within us that shape how we see ourselves, relate to others, and move through the world.

Dr. Michio Kaku is a theoretical physicist, bestselling author, acclaimed public speaker, renowned futurist, and popularizer of science. As co-founder of String Field Theory, Dr. Kaku carries on Einstein's quest to unite the four fundamental forces of nature into a single grand unified theory of everything. He received a B.S. (summa cum laude) from Harvard University in 1968, then went on to the Berkeley Radiation Laboratory at the University of California, Berkeley, where he received a Ph.D. in 1972. In 1973, he held a lectureship at Princeton University.

Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City.

Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science.

Join us for new episodes every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever podcasts are found.

Love the show? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend about the show.

Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information.

Chapters:

00:00 Intro

01:48 Can Physics Explain Consciousness?

03:24 Defining Consciousness vs. Intelligence

09:57 Schrödinger's Cat and the Many-Worlds Theory

12:47 Do Quantum Effects Scale Up to the Brain?

16:13 Could AI Ever Be Conscious?

21:04 Perception Box Question: How Do Others Perceive You?

23:15 Kaku's Multiple Identities Through Life

How to Recover From Decades of Chronic Stress Sep 23, 2026

Show notes

Stress researcher Dr. Elissa Epel explains why the goal isn't to eliminate stress but to get better at recovering from it. She says that a sharp, short stress response followed by real rest is the hallmark of a young, healthy nervous system. She breaks down the science of why chronic vigilance quietly ages our cells and shortens telomeres. Plus: why lying down can defuse an argument, how someone can recover from years of chronic stress, and why nature, ritual, and even a good nap belong in everyone's stress prescription. Dr. Epel's research reveals a central idea of the Perception Box, a framework developed by Elizabeth R. Koch for understanding the forces within us that shape how we see ourselves, relate to others, and move through the world.

Elissa Epel, Ph.D., is a professor of psychiatry at UCSF, where she directs the Aging, Metabolism, and Emotions Center. She co-wrote the New York Times bestseller The Telomere Effect with Nobel laureate Elizabeth Blackburn, and her latest book is The Stress Prescription. A member of the National Academy of Medicine, her research has been featured on 60 Minutes, NPR, and in the New York Times and Wall Street Journal.

Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City.

Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science.

Join us for new episodes every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever podcasts are found.

Love the show? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend about the show.

Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information.

Chapters:

03:00 What happens in mind and body under stress

05:16 Why too little stress ages you faster

13:20 Is chronic stress damage reversible?

15:12 What a healthy stress response looks like

18:06 Tunnel vision: the Perception Box under stress

24:15 Building recovery into your day

27:37 The stress prescription, part two: practices

31:13 Deep rest as a gateway to transformation

32:38 Recovering from years of chronic stress

38:41 Highly sensitive people and anxiety

40:09 Perception Box question: what do you want people to believe about you?

Are Your Emotions Telling You the Truth? Sep 16, 2026

Show notes

Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett, psychologist and neuroscientist, joins hosts Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christof Koch to unpack her theory of constructed emotion: the idea that emotions aren't hardwired reactions but stories the brain builds to explain physical signals like a racing heart or a furrowed brow. Dr. Barrett explains why there's no universal facial expression for anger or fear, how the same racing heart can be read as fear or excitement depending on your Perception Box™, and why "you have more control over your interpretation than you think," even if that control takes practice to build.

Dr. Lisa Feldman Barrett is a psychological scientist and neuroscientist, University Distinguished Professor of Psychology at Northeastern University, and originator of the theory of constructed emotion. She is the author of How Emotions Are Made and Seven and a Half Lessons About the Brain.

Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City.

Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science.

Join us for new episodes of Science of Perception Box every Wednesday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Love Science of Perception Box? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend!

Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information.

Chapters:

03:17 Brain as Prediction Machine

07:41 Why Predictions Feel Invisible

13:55 Feelings Versus Emotions

18:43 No Universal Expressions

30:31 Babies And Basic Affect

32:03 Training Emotional Flexibility

38:42 Rewiring Predictions Over Time

41:45 Letting Go Of Convictions

The Hidden Rules Holding Society Together: Steven Pinker on Common Knowledge Sep 09, 2026

Show notes

Why do we speak in euphemisms instead of saying exactly what we mean? Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christoph Koch sat down with cognitive scientist and bestselling author Steven Pinker to explore common knowledge — not what everyone knows, but what everyone knows that everyone knows. Get it?

Common knowledge is an awareness of something that is public or “out there” and it has an enormous impact on our social, political, and economic lives. From unspoken rules of flirtation to the fall of the Berlin Wall, Pinker reveals how the social force of common knowledge shapes everything from our most intimate relationships to global financial markets. His work illuminates central ideas of the Perception Box, a framework developed by Elizabeth R. Koch for understanding the forces within us that shape how we see ourselves, relate to others, and move through the world.

Steven Pinker is the Johnstone Family Professor in the Department of Psychology at Harvard University where he conducts research on language, cognition, and social relations. Pinker is the author of thirteen books, including his latest book When Everyone Knows That Everyone Knows… and seminal texts like The Language Instinct, The Blank Slate, and How the Mind Works. His writing has appeared in The New York Times, Time and The Atlantic.

Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City.

Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science.

Join us for new episodes of Science of Perception Box every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Love Science of Perception Box? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend!

Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information.

Episode Chapters:

00:00 Why Honesty Fails

02:56 Defining Common Knowledge

06:38 Awkwardness and Innuendo

15:24 Markets and Shared Beliefs

28:44 Bubbles and Bank Runs

31:05 Freedom of Speech

31:49 Berlin Wall Tipping

32:46 Science Versus Assumptions

Your Brain Lies to You (And That's a Good Thing): Anil Seth on Consciousness Sep 02, 2026

Show notes

What if everything you see, hear, and feel isn't real? What if it's just your brain's best prediction of what's real? Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christof Koch sat down with neuroscientist and consciousness researcher Anil Seth to explore the profound question of: What is consciousness? Seth's answer might surprise (and even unsettle) you. Consciousness isn't a window onto reality. It's a controlled hallucination constructed by your brain to make sense of a world it can never directly access. These questions of consciousness illuminate central ideas of the Perception Box, a framework developed by Elizabeth R. Koch for understanding the forces within us that shape how we see ourselves, relate to others, and move through the world.

Anil Seth is Professor of Cognitive and Computational Neuroscience and Director of the Centre for Consciousness Science at the University of Sussex. He is the author of Being You: A New Science of Consciousness and more than 200 scientific papers.

Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City.

Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science.

Join us for new episodes of Science of Perception Box every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Love Science of Perception Box? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend!

Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information.

Chapters:

00:00 Escaping the echo chamber

01:43 Defining consciousness

09:05 Perception as "controlled hallucination"

11:26 Why perception feels like reality (an adaptive illusion)

17:06 When perception shapes social and historical "truth"

19:03 Hallucination as uncontrolled perception

21:57 What is the self?

33:38 Intelligence vs. consciousness

35:42 Anthropomorphizing AI and "bio-chauvinism"

36:10 Biological naturalism: can AI be conscious?

39:44 Should AI be designed to seem conscious?

40:52 Perception Box question

Overcoming the Victim Mindset with Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman Aug 26, 2026

Show notes

Psychologist Dr. Scott Barry Kaufman explores the difference between victimhood and victim mindset, explaining why learned helplessness is actually our default state, and how developing agency is the key to transformative change. He discusses vulnerable narcissism, the dangers of excessive accommodation, and why growth requires embracing adversity rather than avoiding discomfort. Plus: why Darth Vader is actually an example of overcoming a victim mindset. Dr. Kaufman’s exploration of the victimhood mindset reveals a central idea of the Perception Box, a framework developed by Elizabeth R. Koch for understanding the forces within us that shape how we see ourselves, relate to others, and move through the world.

Scott Barry Kaufman is a psychologist focused on untapped potential and reframing intelligence. He is a professor of psychology at Columbia University and director of the Center for Human Potential. He has written and edited 11 books, with the most recent being Rise Above: Overcome a Victim Mindset. He has written articles for widely respected publications, including The Atlantic, Scientific American, and Harvard Business Review, and he’s also the host of The Psychology Podcast. In addition to teaching at Columbia, he also taught as a professor at NYU and the University of Pennsylvania.

Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City.

Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science.

Join us for new episodes every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever podcasts are found.

Love the show? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend about the show.

Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information.

Episode Chapters:

00:00 Opening

02:53 Defining the Victim Mindset

03:30 Rumination and Entitlement

05:42 Rethinking Learned Helplessness

08:01 Victimhood vs Victim

09:04 Empowerment Traits

09:44 Genes and Resilience

12:22 Vulnerable Narcissism Link

15:59 Escaping Emotional Victimhood

17:00 Agency Over Accommodations

19:18 Letting Kids Fail

24:56 Villain Or Victim Game

Your Body’s Operating Manual: Andrew Huberman on the Mind-Body Connection Aug 19, 2026

Show notes

Even though our experiences are shaped by unconscious patterns and bodily sensations, we have the agency to actively transform them simply by staying present and aware. Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christof Koch sit down with Stanford neuroscientist and “Huberman Lab” host Andrew Huberman to explore the science of how your brain and body talk to each other, and how you can use that conversation to your advantage. Huberman shares his evidence-based solutions for optimizing brain function, mood, energy, and physical performance in order to learn new skills and behaviors that can transform your life. Huberman’s exploration of the brain-body connection speaks to a central idea of the Perception Box, a framework developed by Elizabeth R. Koch for understanding the forces within us that shape how we see ourselves, relate to others, and move through the world.

Andrew Huberman is a Professor of Neurobiology and Ophthalmology at Stanford University School of Medicine and host of the “Huberman Lab” podcast. His newest book, Protocols: An Operating Manual for the Human Body publishes in September 2026 and culminates years of research, lab work, and conversations with scientists.

Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City.

Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science.

Join us for new episodes of Science of Perception Box every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Love Science of Perception Box? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend!

Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information.

Chapters:

00:00 Opening

06:33 Yoga Nidra and Tactical Breathing

09:25 What Helps Addiction

14:18 Physiological Sigh

17:37 Naming Shapes Adoption

23:05 Alcohol Health Consensus

26:20 Gut Microbiome and Nutrition

27:42 Sex and Wellbeing

30:56 Sleep, Aging and Melatonin

32:42 Protocols Book Overview

35:18 Letting Go and Faith

37:56 Psychedelics

39:44 Perception Box Questions

Stop Trying to Fix People: Mel Robbins on the Power of Letting Go Aug 12, 2026

Show notes

How much of your energy is focused on trying to change people who aren't ready to change? Best-selling author and podcast host Mel Robbins joins Dr. Heather Berlin and Dr. Christof Koch to explore what happens when you stop trying to control others and start reclaiming your own life. Robbins calls it the “Let Them Theory”: a deceptively simple idea that has struck a nerve with millions worldwide who are using it to address frustration, anxiety, their need for control, and more.

Mel’s “Let Them Theory” touches on a central idea of the Perception Box, a framework developed by Elizabeth R. Koch for understanding the forces within us that shape how we see ourselves, relate to others, and move through the world.

Mel Robbins is a #1 New York Times bestselling author and host of the award-winning “Mel Robbins Podcast”, with more than 40 million followers worldwide. Her book The Let Them Theory was the top-selling nonfiction title of 2025, selling seven million copies in nine months.

Dr. Heather Berlin is a neuroscientist, clinical psychologist, and Professor of Psychiatry and Neuroscience at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York City.

Dr. Christof Koch is Chief Scientist for the Tiny Blue Dot Foundation and the current Meritorious Investigator and former President of the Allen Institute for Brain Science.

Join us for new episodes of Science of Perception Box every Thursday. Follow the show on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Love Science of Perception Box? Write us a review on your podcast app, or tell a friend!

Visit unlikelycollaborators.com for more information.

Chapters:

05:09 Introducing Mel Robbins

06:43 Parents And Instinct to Rescue

12:32 Helping Without Pushback

14:27 Annoying Spouse Habits

19:00 “Let Them, Let Me” Boundaries

21:03 Losing Control In Modern Life

26:01 The Cold Tea Test

27:12 Flow State Reset

28:51 Why Let Them Works