SAY MORE

EP. 91 - MOTHERHOOD IS THAT YOU? Jun 19, 2024

Meli & Olivia talk about their shriveled up eggs at the historic age of 32, and imagine what it look like to be mothers.

EP. 89 - THE TRAUMA PLOT Jun 04, 2024

a few listener emails including: an update on brian's bedbug saga and a story about The One That Got Away. then, m&o chat about trauma as a vehicle for storytelling: when it's overdone, when it's helpful, when it's actually Too Vulnerable To Be Shared.

the prison journalism project is mentioned on this episode! check them out here: https://prisonjournalismproject.org/prison-newspaper-project/?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw9vqyBhCKARIsAIIcLMFhCS3v5c9XV4NMqdjzc86iVS8dqy5RC-FeP5gfX4pCB5ItRKr3vBYaAlW1EALw_wcB

EP. 88 *bonus episode teaser* GAB HOUR May 28, 2024

To listen to the rest of the episode, subscribe to patreon.com/saymorepodcast.

the gals gab about whatever is on their mind including: lucy letby, RFK Jr. (one of these people is honest and it isn't RFK), and listener emails about a sweet karmic loop and finding love amidst the prison system.

EP. 87 - DO WE EVEN LIKE WRITING? May 20, 2024

M & O read an update from The Brian Bedbug Saga and an email from a listener about breeding kinks and chosen single parenthood. Then, they talk about the existential crises they experience each month around their careers, relevancy, creativity, productivity, and other shit that seems very Not Possible to Deal With when you're about to get your period.

EP. 85 - WRITING ABOUT GRIEF w/ AMY LIN Apr 29, 2024

We were overjoyed to talk with Amy Lin, author of the new memoir, HERE AFTER, which details her relationship with her late husband and his sudden passing, the singular experience of young windowhood, and how grief is a language in which we we all eventually become fluent.

EP. 84 - *bonus episode* - CANDELARIA & PICK ME GIRLS Apr 22, 2024

Listen to the full episode on Patreon. It's here! Well, mostly. Here is a partial recording of our conversation at Skylight Books in Los Angeles, where we celebrated Melissa's novel Candelaria and talked about the caucasity of spin classes, abuelas surviving the apocalypse, and how archaeologists are similar to writers, among other things. The weird part is that the conversation cuts off once we start talking about an earthquake. SO. We spend the second half of the episode unpacking how internalized misogyny makes us label women as pick me's!

EP. 83 - FATHERHOOD w/ LUCAS MANN Apr 15, 2024

We chat with author Lucas Mann about his most recent collection of essays, ATTACHMENTS, which unpacks the tender, scary, and hilarious experience of contemporary fatherhood. We talk about the impossible image of the Perfect Leftist Father, and the Lack of Personal Space when raising a child.

EP. 82 - *bonus episode* - WRITING ABOUT SEX Apr 08, 2024

TEASER. we help a listener through a tough friendship/roommate breakup and talk about how we go about writing about SEX. are u trying to turn your readers on or just show them something about the characters? are sex scenes meant to move the plot forward or are they just a fun break? we also discover we might be prudes.

EP. 81 - TRAD WIVES w/ GABY DEL VALLE Apr 01, 2024

the gals talk to trad-wife expert, gaby del valle, who has done extensive reporting on the women bringing old school homesteading onto the main feed.

EP. 80 - *bonus episode* - FROM POETRY TO FICTION Mar 25, 2024

Melissa & Olivia keep getting asked: what is it like to go from poetry to fiction. They talk about it! Also, listeners share a story about their end-of-times pastor grandpa and also ask: is it possible to escape writing commercial and institutional poetry? Only on patreon :)

EP. 79 - WRITING ABOUT FOOD Mar 18, 2024

We talk through a few listener emails about surviving your mid-twenties, surviving with a UTI on Survivor, and surviving a boss who keeps showing up to work with hickeys. After that, we talk about being hungry. Writing about food, eating while writing, forgetting to eat because we are writing, soylent (????), and why food is such an important detail when it comes to storytelling.

EP. 78 - *bonus episode* - A PEOPLE'S HISTORY OF SLAM POETRY Mar 12, 2024

head over to patreon.com/saymorepodcast to listen to the full episode! we got to sit down in real life with one of our closest friends & favorite writers, hieu minh nguyen. together, we got nostalgic about our wild (we were so corny) days of competing in poetry slam and how the artform influenced our professional lives as writers today (we are just really good at self-promotion).

EP. 77 - LOVE IS BLIND & POV Mar 04, 2024

back with another HOME RUN. this week, the gal pals chat about their favorite high-brow television show, love is blind, as well as the infinite ways Point of View can change a story. if this were a dissertation, they would make clearer how these two themes are related, but you get it. right?

EP. 75: ROMANCE - A PROBE Feb 19, 2024

In honor of Melissa's favorite holiday, we are talking about love. We spoke with Puloma Ghosh, author of Mouth, about tropes in the romance genre, fan-fiction, and why women turn to romance in times of need. Order Puloma's short story collection wherever books are sold!

EP. 73 - AUTOFICTION & THE SELFHOOD PLOT Feb 05, 2024

it's the new season of SAY MORE! thank you for waiting literally two years. this week, we are discussing the genre of autofiction — where it started, who's doing it, and our personal journey to adulthood aka choosing not to share every single thing about our private life in a nonfictional space. for next week's bonus episode, subscribe to our patreon at patreon.com/saymorepodcast, where you can also gain access our montly newsletter. we're so glad to be back xx

EP. 72 - ROCKSTARS, MISTRESSES, SURROGATES, THE MONARCHY Oct 07, 2022

pop culture is truly losing it

EP. 71 - WHAT DO WE DO ABOUT ROE V. WADE w/ PAIGE GREEN Sep 21, 2022

The gals welcome former guest Paige Green—nurse, doula, star—to talk about the dismal state of reproductive rights in America and how to generally deal.

EP. 70 - ORIGIN STORIES Mar 19, 2022

M&O, together at last, talk about how they met the most important people in their lives.

EP. 69 - ORGASMS APLENTY Jan 28, 2022

M&O talk (humbly) all things related to cumming: the different genres orgasm, the lack thereof, and why you can't trust your life decisions if you're having good sex.

EP. 68 - AN ODE TO OUR TWENTIES Jan 18, 2022

As Melissa and Olivia depart the tragic & exhilarating decade of their twenties, they reminisce on the years they spent being whores in punk houses, sexless in relationships, and a sudden burst of hyper-visibility.

EP. 67 - MORTALITY w/ ANDREA GIBSON Dec 10, 2021

Olivia & Melissa go from complete chaos to total enlightenment in a conversation with renowned poet Andrea Gibson about mortality, the industry of death, the afterlife, and their new book YOU BETTER BE LIGHTING.

EP. 66 - Voyeurism & Sensitive Men Oct 15, 2021

Olivia & Melissa briefly revisit the theory that Rooney mined their lives, wonder if voyeurism is always sexual, & if they've reached the end of the era of sensitive men.

EP. 65 - OUR LIVES, MINED Aug 27, 2021

O & M talk about the possibility that their lives have been used as fodder for a bestselling novel. Are they self-involved? Or are they right?

EP. 64 - RETROACTIVE JEALOUSY & OTHER TERRIBLE FEELINGS Jun 20, 2021

M&O talk about how trauma can make relationships a nightmare but also how you can get better.

EP. 63 - ARE WE SMART? Apr 08, 2021

Melissa & Olivia question whether or not they are smart. Which maybe means they aren't?

Ep. 62: The Oversharing Industrial Complex Feb 16, 2021

Melissa and Olivia talk about what it means when celebrities make money off their wounds and the intentions behind oversharing on the internet. They also go into the nuances of being an abolitionist and what it means to publish former abusers.

EP. 61 - BAD TV & TOUGH LOVE "PARENTING" Jan 13, 2021

Melissa & Olivia try to justify their love of melodramatic television & also are in complete denial about their traumatic childhoods.

EP. 60 - ALTERNATE UNIVERSES Dec 24, 2020

Melissa & Olivia talk about what could have been.

EP. 59 - NORMIE CULTURE Nov 01, 2020

Olivia & Melissa ponder Instagram script font, barnhouse lifestyle bloggers, women who dream of pumpkin patches, and embroidered towels.

EP. 59 - NORMIE CULTURE Nov 01, 2020

Olivia & Melissa ponder Instagram script font, barnhouse lifestyle bloggers, women who dream of pumpkin patches, and embroidered towels.

Say More 9.23.20 RECUT Oct 06, 2020

As in, media. Not food. Media is our food. We feed on the faux-intimate lives of people we do not know.

EP. 57 - BEING PERFORMATIVE & CAPITALISM Aug 07, 2020

M & O are back, chatting about whether or not they have personalities & what it means to exist inside of a society fueled by consumerism & class warfare :)

EP. 56 - CANCEL CULTURE Jul 02, 2020

Meli & Oli chat about Twitter, accountability, & what it means to be cancelled while working towards restorative justice.

EP. 55 - THE FOREMOTHERS OF PRISON ABOLITION Jun 17, 2020

Melissa & Olivia talk extensively about the lives & work of Angela Davis, Ruth Wilson Gilmore, and Mariame Kaba.

EP. 54 - PRISON ABOLITION FOR DUMMIES Jun 03, 2020

Melissa & Olivia answer the five most common questions when talking about abolishing the police & prison.

EP. 53 - RUNNING IS MY BOYFRIEND w/ JOSEFINA OLIVA May 27, 2020

We talk to Melissa's mom about falling in love with running after her divorce & how, committing to something for three months & then moving onto the next challenge, makes it your boyfriend.

EP. 52 - NORMAL PEOPLE & SEX ON SCREEN May 20, 2020

O & M talk Normal People and performative sex.

EP. 51 - WHAT WE WANNA BE WHEN WE GROW UP May 13, 2020

Melissa & Olivia talk about The Self and what becomes of it.

EP. 50 - NIHILISM vs. PESSIMISM vs. OPTIMISM vs. ????? May 07, 2020

Melissa & Olivia have a little chat about whether they have hope themselves, the world, and the people inside it.

EP. 49 - GROUNDHOG DAY May 02, 2020

Melissa & Olivia recount what it is they do every single fucking day.

EP. 48 - WE RAN OUT OF IDEAS Apr 23, 2020

so we just talked shit.

EP. 47 - WHAT THE FUCK IS COVID-19 w/ JILL GATWOOD Apr 15, 2020

Olivia & Melissa interview Jill Gatwood AKA Olivia's mom who, yes, she still calls mommy. Old habits die hard. She's an epidemiologist so she knows a lot of stuff that's valuable right now.

EP. 46 - THE QUESTIONS WE HATE Apr 08, 2020

Melissa and Olivia answer the questions that started this podcast in the first place: the questions they never want to answer but keep getting asked. But this time, they answer them beautifully and realize that maybe they weren't so bad after all. Does this sound like the summary of a YA novel?

EP. 45 - HOUSEPLANTS & ROMANTIC COMEDIES Apr 01, 2020

Melissa & Olivia chat about inheriting a green thumb & letting it bloom in the quarantine, as well as why romantic comedies are, perhaps, the most reliable genre of art throughout history.

EP. 44 - SOLITUDE HACKS & ELIZABETH WARREN Mar 26, 2020

Melissa interviews Olivia about the fact that she was already social distancing & Olivia asks Melissa about her tumultuous relationship with Lizzy.

EP. 43 - HOMETOWNS Mar 19, 2020

Olivia asks Melissa about her hometown (her mother's kitchen) and Melissa asks Olivia about her's (a desert filled with rusty refrigerators).

EP. 42 - THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA w/ JOSHUA MCELROY Mar 11, 2020

Melissa & Olivia interview an Australian they met at Sundance, who is on a journey across America for the first time.

EP. 42 - THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA w/ JOSHUA MCELROY Mar 11, 2020

Melissa & Olivia interview an Australian they met at Sundance, who is on a journey across America for the first time.

EP. 41 - AMERICAN DIRT, REPRESENTATION & TECH BROS Mar 04, 2020

SEASON 2 STARTS NOW. Melissa & Olivia see each other for the first time in sixteen years - Olivia asks Melissa about the critically not-acclaimed novel American Dirt & the whiteness of the publishing industry, Melissa asks Olivia about the secret world of Tech Bros and that time she partied with Mark Zuckerberg.

EP. 40 - BEING A YOUNG POP STAR, GOING INDIE & WHY IS LANA DEL REY DATING A COP? w/ SHAMIR Dec 19, 2019

Melissa & Olivia chat with Shamir, a musician/icon based out of Philly, who had a taste of arenas and the world of mass produced pop music & chose his mental health instead.

EP. 39 - AMAZON, NO MUSIC FOR ICE & BULLYING JEFF BEZOS w/ SADIE DUPUIS Dec 12, 2019

Sadie Dupuis, poet, multi-instrumentalist, and lead vocalist of Speedy Ortiz, stops by the pod to talk to Olivia & Melissa about starting NO MUSIC FOR ICE, an initiative to keep music out of the hands of corporate monsters and ultimately, bully Jeff Bezos for the rest of his stupid life.

Episode 38: DISCWOMAN, Appropriation & the world of techno w/ Frankie Hutchinson Dec 05, 2019

Olivia & Melissa talk to Frankie Hutchinson of Discwoman, one of the co-founders of a talent agency for electronic music. They also talk about how much they loved Carmen Maria Machado's new book, Melissa's obsession with a Greek Myth, & how Olivia got slammed by a surfboard.

EP. 37 MINISODE - ALL OF MY PLANTS ARE TURNING BLACK Nov 21, 2019

Olivia & Melissa read out spooky stories from listeners, one of which involves a cursed succulent. But maybe all succulents are cursed? Edited, mastered and scored by Natasha Jacobs.

EP. 36 - SOFAR SOUNDS, SPOTIFY, & HOW CAPITALISM RUINED MUSIC w/ LIZ PELLY Nov 14, 2019

Olivia & Melissa chat with writer, Liz Pelly, who dives deep into the exploitation of artists by streaming platforms, the appropriation of the "house show" through venues like SoFar Sounds, & how we can be more conscious music listeners.

EP. 35 - OUR FAVORITE MOVIES & MORE SCARY STORIES Nov 08, 2019

Melissa & Olivia interview each other about their favorite movies & read aloud listeners spooky stories with an even spookier score.

EP. 34 - WE ARE BOTH HAUNTED Oct 25, 2019

Olivia & Melissa tell the spooky stories of their life. Send yours to saymoresaymorepodcast@gmail.com & they will read them out loud.

EP. 33 - THE FREEDOM OF ALTER EGOS w/ BECCA KAUFFMAN PT. 2 Oct 17, 2019

Becca Kauffman stops by SAY MORE to chat about her performative persona, Jennifer Vanilla, what it means to "be yourself", and her new single, ERASE THE TIME, on her EP J.E.N.N.I.F.E.R.

EP. 33 - THE FREEDOM OF ALTER EGOS w/ BECCA KAUFFMAN PT. 1 Oct 17, 2019

Becca Kauffman stops by SAY MORE to chat about her performative persona, Jennifer Vanilla, what it means to "be yourself", and her new single, ERASE THE TIME, on her EP J.E.N.N.I.F.E.R.

EP. 32 - Caroline Calloway & Spooky Tour Stories w/ Ellen Kempner Oct 09, 2019

Olivia & Melissa talk about Caroline Calloway finally (still topical) & are then joined by Ellen Kempner of Palehound (the only Ellen they acknowledge & person who sings the theme song) who tells them some scary stories from touring that Olivia & Melissa are still recovering from. This episode was recorded & mixed by Natasha Jacobs in her Bushwick studio.

EP. 31 - PUNISHERS & SVU w/ Tamara Santibañez Sep 25, 2019

Olivia & Melissa are back together in the same room (Natasha Jacobs' Buschwick studio) talking about people who are punishers, the burden of knowledge! They are then joined by multi-disciplinary artist Tamara Santibañez who talks to them about her extensive knowledge on Law & Order SVU. Some topics include: loving cops shows while being an anarchist, anti-kink, Rikers Island, the representation of survivors, comforting formulaic TV, inconsistencies in character, "the twist is incest," & more! They also answer a would-you-rather question at the end that is a great premise for a short story.

EP. 30 - EVERYTHING IS A PYRAMID SCHEME Sep 18, 2019

Melissa & Olivia asked listeners to submit their pyramid scheme stories. Turns out, almost everything is a pyramid scheme.

EP. 29 - BIRTHDAYS, DISAPPOINTING PARTIES, AND TURNING THIRTY w/ DIANNELY ANTIGUA Sep 11, 2019

It's Diannely's thirtieth birthday so we had her read a poem and tell us about all the times she's cried in a bathtub.

EP. 28 - SELF-CONFIDENCE, MOTHERS IN LAW, THAT WEIRD NEW NETFLIX MOVIE 'TALL GIRL' w/ AURA Sep 04, 2019

Melissa & Olivia chat with mixed-media artist & musician AURA about things that help and ruin our confidence, like the media and mothers in law.

EP. 27 - LIVE at LIFE OF THE PARTY BOOK RELEASE Sep 02, 2019

Melissa interviews Olivia about her new book, Life of the Party, which meditates on true crime, fear, and violence against women. Melissa also talks extensively about how hot Olivia's dad is.

EP. 26 - QUENTIN TARANTINO, MURDERED WOMEN IN HOLLYWOOD & CHILDISH MEN w/ JOURDAIN SEARLES Aug 07, 2019

Olivia & Melissa chat with comedian & film critic, Jourdain Searles about how most movies made by men are bad.

EP. 25 - BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN, GUY FIERI, FATHERS, & THE OPPOSITE OF EX-HUSBANDS w/ RAX KING Jul 24, 2019

This week we mourn the temporary loss of Olivia Gatwood with a solo show from our Melissa (Melissa rubbing her hands together, hunched over a smoking cauldron *THE PLAN HAS WORKED!*). Melissa chats with poet Rax King about male icons (yes, they exist), fathers (usually not male icons) & the opposite of an ex-husband (I have no idea what that is because this is Olivia and I wasn't there).

EP. 24 - NUDES, CONVENIENCE CULTURE, DOG WALKING & THE GIG ECONOMY w/ BRIAN BURNS Jul 17, 2019

M & O chat with the most productive person alive—Gwyneth Paltrow herself—Brian Burns about ATM's, invasive nudes, and all of the cities we have in common.

EP. 23 - CORPORATE FEMINISM w/ JAMIE LOFTUS Jul 03, 2019

Olivia & Melissa talk with Boss Whom Is Girl creator & comedian Jamie Loftus about the rise of Girl Boss culture, corporate feminism, and the cult of Sheryl Sandberg.

EP. 22 - NERD CULTURE & DRAG QUEENS w/ GARRETT LUKAS DELLIOS Jun 26, 2019

Olivia & Melissa interview Dungeons & Dragons fanatic & drag performer (Beef Cakes) Garret Lukas Dellios about obsessive sub-cultures and who loves them.

EP. 21 - MOVING, PHYSICAL GRIEF & BREAKUPS w/ LUCY COTRELL Jun 19, 2019

Olivia & Melissa chat with comedian Lucy Cotrell about a lot of sad shit and some funny shit too.

EP. 20 - VEGANISM, MASCULINITY, CLASSISM & CONSUMERISM w/ BEN ZAIDI Jun 05, 2019

Olivia & Melissa interview poet & musician Ben Zaidi about veganism & all the arguments against/for it.

EP. 19 - CAMP, LATINIDAD, SYLVIA PLATH & SOLANGE w/ KYLE LOPEZ May 29, 2019

Melissa & Olivia chat with poet, Kyle Lopez, about the real definition of camp, the vastness of Latinidad, & Kyle reads a poem after Sylvia Plath & Solange.

EP. 18 - DOULAS, ABORTION & BODY LITERACY w/ PAIGE GREEN May 22, 2019

Olivia & Melissa chat with a real life, pro-choice doula about the business of birth, primal fertility, and why the Alabama abortion bill isn't about saving babies at all.

EP. 17 - PROM & RACING CARS May 15, 2019

Olivia talks about her days drag racing like some bitch from 2 Fast 2 Furious & Melissa reminisces about the time she looked beautiful at prom but got ignored all night & sought sexual revenge 10 years later.

EP. 16 - DREAMS & TRINIDAD May 08, 2019

Melissa talks about recording her dreams & making a movie out of them. Olivia reflects on moving to the Caribbean & becoming friends with bugs.

EP. 15 - BEACHES, NUDITY, & MARRIED PARENTS w/ MELISSA ROCHA May 01, 2019

Melissa & Olivia chat with comedian & short film star actress Melissa Rocha about being more comfortable naked than in a bikini & what it's like to have parents who did mostly everything right.

EP. 14 - VANITY, POP MUSIC, SELF LOVE & BRAVE FASHION CHOICES w/ BERNARD FERGUSON Apr 24, 2019

Olivia & Melissa chat with poet & Extremely Kind, Intelligent Human, Bernard Ferguson about everything related to being obsessed with yourself.

EP. 13 - BOOBS & ACNE Apr 17, 2019

Melissa talks to Olivia about what it's like to still be going through puberty & Olivia asks Melissa about her giant titties.

EP. 12 - SHARKS & LADY SCIENTISTS W/ CHESTINA CRAIG Apr 09, 2019

Olivia & Melissa interview marine biologist Chestina Craig on sharks, being a woman in science, & more!

EP. 11 - CHRONIC PAIN & BEING A MUSICIAN w/ THELMA Apr 03, 2019

Olivia & Melissa talk to singer/songwriter, Thelma, about her journey through the music industry & navigating instruments, relationships, & employers as a person with chronic pain.

EP. 10 - GAY PORN w/ GABE GONZALEZ Mar 12, 2019

Comic & internet sensation Gabe Gonzalez talks cinematography & film making & butt juice.

EP. 9 - VALENTINES DAY, COOL KIDS, MEAN GIRLS, REGRETS w/ JULIA CLAIRE Mar 12, 2019

Olivia and Melissa talk to comic & cultural critic Julia Claire about literally everything.

EP. 8 - SISTERS & MENSTRUAL CUPS Feb 19, 2019

Olivia interviews Melissa about the bitchy, unconditional love of sisterhood & Melissa asks Olivia about shoving a silicone shot glass up her pussy.

EP. 7 - CUSTOMER SERVICE w/ Hieu Minh Nguyen Feb 12, 2019

Melissa & Olivia interview their favorite poet & Julia Roberts guru, Hieu Minh Nguyen, about working in customer service & being a full time artist.

EP. 6 - TRUE CRIME & SELENA Feb 05, 2019

Olivia talks about her obsession with being murdered & Melissa shows off how much she knows about the late pop-star Selena.

EP. 5 - ANXIETY & EX-GIRLFRIENDS Jan 29, 2019

Melissa talks about her life riddled with anxiety & Olivia gets unevolved about how everyone she dates has cool exes.

EP. 4 - YEAST INFECTIONS & PSORIASIS Jan 22, 2019

Melissa asks Olivia about her burning, itchy scalp while Olivia asks Melissa about the bread baking inside of her vagina.

EP. 3 - CATS & BOYFRIENDS Jan 15, 2019

Melissa asks Olivia why she fucking hates cats & Olivia asks Melissa about her new identity as A Person With A Boyfriend.

EP. 2 - KARAOKE & BIKINI LINES Jan 08, 2019

Olivia asks Melissa about her karaoke obsession & Melissa delves into the details of Olivia's outrageous bikini line.

EP. 1 - BANGS & BEAUTY TUTORIALS Dec 13, 2018

In the premier episode of SAY MORE, Olivia interviews Melissa about BANGS (as in, hair), and Melissa interviews Olivia about the world of YouTube beauty tutorials.

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