Saved by the City

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Live, Laugh, Love ... and Submit? + Kristin Kobes Du Mez Sep 24, 2026

Show notes

Are you a total woman?

We've been waiting literal years for Kristin Kobes Du Mez's new book "Live Laugh Love." And here it is! Just in time for a new season of Saved By the City.

One thing that struck us about Kristin’s new book is how much it centers on consumer products marketed to Christian women. It’s less a history of ideas from the top down and more a history of ideas from the ground up, via the things that white Christian women buy and sell. And so many of those cultural artifacts were familiar to us! Like "Love Comes Softly," by Janette Oke, or "Christy" by Catherine Marshall.

Kristin’s book also features two of our favorite SBTC guests! Beth Moore and Amy Grant, of course.

But as we’ll get into with Kristin, a lot of these cultural artifacts taught women to be happy despite the circumstances – to kind of accept their lot in life with a smile on their faces and to above all make their husbands happy. As Kristin explains, there’s a dark side to this power of positive thinking.

GUEST:

Kristin Kobes Du Mez is the author of "Live Laugh Love: The Secret History of White Christian Women and the World They Made" and the New York Times bestseller "Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation." She is a professor of history at Calvin University.

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We Asked, You Answered: Why Women Are Leaving Church May 28, 2026

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Can you imagine a church without women? Us either.

For as long as anyone alive today has been going to church, they've found the pews populated with more women than men. It's long been a given in American society that women are more religious than men. They pray more often, they attend church more often, they read their Bibles more often. But in the past quarter century, that gap has steadily been shrinking among young adults. As more young men claimed a religious identity, fewer women did. And in 2025, according to Gallup, young men surpassed young women claiming religion is important in their lives and church attendance among the younger set is tied between genders.

What's happening here? While the focus has often been on the male side of that equation (look, young men are coming back to church!), the reality is the gender flip-flop has been driven more by young women's exodus. We wanted to know why women are leaving – and we wanted to hear some real-life stories. So we asked you! On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy hear from several listeners who offer their stories of leaving church — from the slow fade to the heartbreaking betrayal. We uncover some themes and discuss our own reasons for continuing to choose church (sometimes against all odds). Thank you again to the listeners who sent in their stories. And happy summer everyone! See you next season.

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Eat the Rich! Jesus Had Something to Say About That + Malcolm Foley May 22, 2026

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Is it a sin to be a billionaire? What about to own a house when so many are displaced?

We're in a real "eat the rich" moment as tech billionaires flaunt their wealth on red carpets and flex their power behind presidents — all the while the wealth gap keeps growing and the AI boom threatens the livelihoods of millions. Revolutions have been fought over less. But is hating the rich biblical? Scripture certainly has a lot to say about greed — the love of money being the root of all evil and stuff like that — and the injustices it perpetuates. Yet, the invitation so often extended is to look inward and to examine one's own relationship toward money. On this episode of the podcast, Katelyn and Roxy talk to Malcom Foley about the insidious legacy of greed on countries, systems and individuals. And why the antidote can be found in true Christian community.

GUEST:

Malcolm Foley is the special advisor to the president for campus engagement at Baylor University and a co-pastor at Mosaic Waco, an intentionally multicultural, nondenominational church. He is the author of "The Anti-Greed Gospel: Why The Love of Money is the Root of Racism and How the Church Can Create A New Way Forward."

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The Wedding Industrial Complex May 14, 2026

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Were Weddings Always This...Extra?
In our parents' generation, most weddings took place in a house of worship, followed by a cake and punch reception in the basement or a local VFW hall, and everyone was decked out in polyester. No one was going for a "viral moment," and videographers and photo booths weren't a thing. But something shifted in Roxy's and Katelyn's lifetimes: today, many couples feel every detail of their wedding needs to reflect their unique personalities, and the wedding industry has exploded, to the tune of $1 trillion globally in 2025. No wonder wedding planning feels by turns fun and exhausting. In this episode, as Katelyn prepares for her July wedding, and producer Jonathan prepares for his September one, we reflect on the pressures women, especially, face as they prepare; what values guide our planning; and how to stay present on the Big Day (pro tip: get a day-of coordinator if you can!).

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The Hidden Religion in Your Self-Care Routine + Liz Bucar May 09, 2026

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The evangelicals were right about yoga (kind of).

Meditation, detox cleanses, sound baths, plant-based medicine ... these things were not invented by Gwyneth Paltrow. They did not appear in Brooklyn out of thin air. Many (even most?) of our favorite wellness practices have deep roots in religious traditions. What are we missing when we strip the religion from the ritual? On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy explore the well-trod path from deconstruction to wellness and why so many exvangelicals are drawn to these more physical disciplines that often originate in eastern or Indigenous traditions. But what is the line between appropriation and appreciation? Religion scholar Liz Bucar joins us to talk about the dangers and missed opportunities that come from separating these practices from their spiritual roots.

Plus, Richa Karmarkar on the Hindu beliefs that shaped yoga — and why she thinks yoga can make you a better Christian.

GUESTS:

Richa Karmarkar is a national reporter covering Hinduism for Religion News Service.
Liz Bucar is a religious ethicist and professor of religion at Northeastern University. She is the author of numerous books on religion, including her newest: “Beyond Wellness: How Restoring the Religious Roots of Spiritual Practices Can Heal Us.”

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What JD Vance and the New Intellectual Right Want Apr 30, 2026

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The Brains Behind the Trump Era

Vice President J. D. Vance recently criticized Pope Leo online over his criticism of the war in Iran. It was a bold move for a Catholic convert, but perhaps not surprising, given the larger ideological commitments that have shaped Vance and his milieu. In a new book, Furious Minds: The Making of the MAGA New Right, scholar Laura K. Field tracks the intellectual leaders - scholars, policy wonks, think tankers - who have fueled Trump's political ascendancy. Ranging from Catholic commentator Sohrab Ohmari to former Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban to Internet personality Bronze Age Pervert, Field says they don't care so much about Trump as they do about fighting liberal democracy and replacing it with economic nationalism, anti-immigration policies, and America First foreign policy.
Field joined Katelyn and Roxy for a fascinating conversation about who these men are, what they want, and how they could shape American democracy far beyond the Trump era.
GUEST: Laura K. Field is a political theorist as well as a Scholar in Residence at American University, a Senior Advisor for the Illiberalism Studies Program at George Washington University, and a nonresident fellow with the Brookings Institution. She's the author of Furious Minds: The Making of the MAGA New Right.

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It's an AI World, and We're All Just Living In It Apr 24, 2026

Show notes

Don't worry, ChatGPT told us to just trust the robots...
In a shockingly short period of time, AI has gone from tech novelty to a part of our everyday lives. More industries are incorporating AI into daily workflow so that employees have more time for creative work - at least in theory. Roxy's and Katelyn's respective professions (journalism and book publishing) are still figuring out the ethical boundaries around AI. Meanwhile, we've all seen the dark side of these tools: deep fakes, chatbots encouraging users to harm themselves, and platforms overrun with AI slop. Do these tools portend a bright new age or civilizational collapse? We hash it out, with minimal help from the robots and a lot more help from a leader of a D.C. think tank helping to create policies that keep these powerful tools in their place.
GUEST: Meredith Potter is executive director of the American Security Fund and the American Security Foundation, the latter of which works to ensure artificial intelligence (AI) is understandable, controllable, responsible, ethical, and human-centered. She is a Term Member of the Council on Foreign Relations and a double graduate of Yale University (BA, MA).

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He Survived Conversion Therapy. The Supreme Court Just Made it Legal Again Apr 16, 2026

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A special crossover from our friends at Complexified for you this week!

Tim Schrader Rodriguez spent eight years trying to "pray out the gay". He modulated his voice. He stopped listening to music with female lead singers. He sat weekly with a therapist who watched him come apart — and said nothing.

Last week, the Supreme Court ruled 8–1 that therapists have a First Amendment right to pursue conversion therapy with their patients, upending a Colorado ban on the practice.

This isn't history, nor is it a Colorado-only case. Bans that advocates spent years winning in state after state will unravel.

Amanda Henderson talks with Tim this week about what eight years inside that world actually felt like — and what it means that the one protected space survivors thought they still had is now gone.

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The Stranger Gospel + Bart D. Ehrman Apr 09, 2026

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What if Jesus really meant what he said? Like, including all that love your enemy stuff.

The better question maybe is what would happen if Jesus's followers believed he really meant what he said — and acted on it? It could change society and, according to Bart Ehrman, it already has. On this episode, Katelyn and Roxy talk with Ehrman — a New Testament scholar, agnostic atheist and somewhat unlikely defender of Jesus' most radical teachings — about how Jesus' command to care for people on the periphery shaped the moral "common sense" of the Western world. From public hospitals to disaster relief to orphanages, much of our social safety net can be traced back to Christian invention, he argues. It's a particularly urgent conversation at a time when Christianity is claimed in the name of everything from war to mass deportations to repealing women's right to vote.

GUEST:

Bart D. Ehrman is a distinguished professor of religious studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and the author of numerous books on the New Testament and early Christianity, including his latest "Love Thy Stranger: How the Teachings of Jesus Transformed the Moral Conscience of the West."

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The Manosphere and the Gospel of Self-Optimization Apr 03, 2026

Show notes

Bro, do you even know your facial thirds?

In an era of overexposure, perhaps looksmaxxing was inevitable. Clavicular, the face of this buzzy new internet phenomenon, tells us an uncomfortable truth we probably already knew: physical attractiveness gets you places. And, in true manosphere fashion, he is taking that to its transgressive extreme — steroid use, appetite suppressants, bone smashing, jaw surgeries, an incalculable amount of supplements and an obsessive fixation on achieving the perfect body ratios. But to what end?

On this episode of the podcast, Katelyn and Roxy examine the looksmaxxers' zealous pursuit of physical "ascension" and its guiding ethos of self-optimization at seemingly all costs. We are joined by RNS national reporter Fiona Murphy to discuss the "inverted asceticism" of the looksmaxxing community and its connections to the broader manosphere. We also get into the other manosphere development of late: Louis Theroux's new documentary, which follows several streamers and podcast hosts displaying a range of bad behaviors in pursuit of clicks. And we ask: what role is religion playing in all this male meaning-making?

GUEST:

Fiona Murphy is a New York-based multimedia journalist and national reporter at Religion News Service. Murphy covers local stories as well as national trends, with a focus on how faith intersects with digital life, identity and community. When it comes to the manosphere, she has written on Looksmaxxing, Catholicism and the new discipline of the body, and Nick Fuentes and the Groyper challenge to Catholicism.

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