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    Religion & Spirituality

    Radio Free Mormon – Mormon Discussion Inc

    Broadcasting Behind Enemy Lines

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    Copyright: © Intellectual Property Copyright Bill Reel 2017

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    Latest Episodes:
    Mormonism LIVE: 104: Captain Nemo VS The LDS Church Dec 01, 2022
    Show notes

    What happens when a Member of the LDS Church stands opposed in a sustaining vote of Church leaders, follows the process the Church has laid out around “common consent”, and shows conclusively that current LDS Prophets, Seers, and Revelators have lied to the members. Well, you are about to find out, because Nemo does just that.

    RESOURCES:

    President Nelson lying about his flight – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz4iQk1M9l4

    Elder Ballard’s being dishonest about hiding things – https://radiofreemormon.org/2017/11/radio-free-mormon-021-elder-ballard-blows-church/

    1832 First Vision Account – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGSKhHQttrs

    Elder Oaks Electroshock Hoax – https://youtu.be/0m5qRse2K5M

    Elder Holland lying on repeated occasions including prop 8 – https://youtu.be/QyFsy2zQf04

    Adam God – https://youtu.be/neaa9rw9ySs

    Gaslighting from LDS Leadership including Ballard on not knowing where inviting to be baptized at the 1st discussion came from – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TVGzjEd5GE

    Additional Lies

    How Leaders repeatedly compromise themselves – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxidgOPpAxM

    Past Leaders lying repeatedly over polygamy – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VZFzK4jBZE

    OTHER RESOURCES

    Common Council – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Council_of_the_Church


    Mormonism LIVE: 103: Thomas Murphy on the Third Convention Nov 25, 2022
    Show notes

    As a follow-up to episode 101 on the Third Convention, Thomas Murphy joins us to add clarity and context to all the ground we covered and to add details that make this story even more interesting.

    RESOURCES:

    The First Part – Video Version – https://youtu.be/Gmjk3Kht0S8

    Slide Show used by Prof Murphy in this episode – https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2022/11/Third-Convention_-Other-Stories.pdf

    Thomas W Murphy | Edmonds Community College – Academia.edu

    Reinventing Mormonism: Guatemala as Harbinger of the Future? – Dialogue Journal

    Zapotec Natural History | UAPress (arizona.edu)

    (PDF) ‘Stronger than Ever’: Remnants of the Third Convention. | Thomas W Murphy – Academia.edu

    (PDF) Fifty Years of United Order in Mexico | Thomas W Murphy – Academia.edu

    (PDF) From Racist Stereotype to Ethnic Identity: Instrumental Uses of Mormon Racial Doctrine | Thomas W Murphy – Academia.edu

    (PDF) Other Mormon Histories: Lamanite Subjectivity in Mexico. | Thomas W Murphy – Academia.edu

    (PDF) Lamanite Genesis, Genealogy, and Genetics | Thomas W Murphy – Academia.edu

    (PDF) Decolonization on the Salish Sea: A Tribal Journey back to Mormon Studies | Thomas W Murphy – Academia.edu

    The Spiritual Evolution of Margarito Bautista – Elisa Eastwood Pulido – Oxford University Press (oup.com)

    Dr Elisa Pulido discusses Margarito Baustista, Nahua Mormon, with Dr Thomas Murphy – YouTube

    The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Mexico | SpringerLink

    Unboxing the Fernando R. and Enriqueta Gomez Mormon Mexican History Collection (Exhibit Extended!) – The Claremont Colleges Library

    NEH Summer Institutes Program – Claremont Mormon Studies (cgu.edu)

    Conferences – Mormon Studies – The University of Utah

    (PDF) An Insufficient Canon: Popol Wuj, Book of Mormon, and Other Neophyte Scriptures | Thomas W Murphy – Academia.edu


    Radio Free Mormon: 258: The Unreasonable Elder Bednar, Part 1 Nov 24, 2022
    Show notes

    Elder David Bednar recently completed a landmark address in two parts, seeking to defend the LDS Church against its critics.

    RFM is joined by the Backyard Professor in breaking down the first part of Elder Bednar’s talk titled, “That Ye May Believe.”

    After deconstructing Elder Bednar’s talk, a better title might be, “That Ye May NOT Believe.”


    Mormonism LIVE: 102: The Greatest Problem In The LDS Church Nov 17, 2022
    Show notes

    What is the greatest problem in the LDS Church? That question is at the heart of this week’s episode. Jim Bennett is our guest this week on Mormonism LIVE, as we explore this question and some of the territory surrounding it.


    Mormonism LIVE: 101: The Third Convention Nov 16, 2022
    Show notes

    Apostasy is something the LDS Church show serious concern over. And why shouldn’t they knowing James Strang, Lorin C. Wooley, Denver Snuffer, Julie Rowe all have led Splinter Factions of one sort or another that have had influence over segments of Latter-day Saints. The idea that a few voices or even a single voice can sway large groups of people into disaffection has the Brethren always on guard. But often the heart of the issue is the lack of listening on the part of the Leaders themselves who can in fact be their own worst enemy. We dive into one such story where LDS Leadership and those they call to preside often become their very own stumbling block as we discuss “The Third Convention”. Rey Lucero Pratt Born October 11 1878 PRATT’S PARENTS Pratt was born in Salt Lake City, Utah Territory, the fourth child of Helaman Pratt and Emmeline Victoria Billingsley Pratt. When Rey was nine, the Pratts moved to Mexico to help settle Colonia Dublán, a Mormon colony in the northern state of Chihuahua. His father was settling in Mexico to escape being prosecuted by the United States federal government for practicing polygamy (Note to the audience that Helaman is a polygamist and has more than one wife). Rey grew up in Mexico, learning to appreciate its history and people. Somewhere along the way he and at least some of his siblings became mexican citizens REY PRATT & ORSON F WHITNEY & Hyrum Harris Apostle Orson F. Whitney set Pratt apart as a missionary on 4 October 1906. On 1 November, Pratt arrived by train in Mexico City and reported to the mission home. He served for nearly a year under mission president Hyrum S. Harris, during which time he presided over the Toluca conference for seven months. Then, on 25 August 1907, Harris announced that Pratt would replace him as president of the Mexican Mission. Pratt was set apart by Harris on 29 September and the Pratts moved to Mexico City shortly thereafter. Pratt started as president of the Mexican mission in 1907. Church membership in Mexico more than doubled during Pratt’s first six years as mission president. By 1911, over a thousand church members lived in the Mexican Mission. THE CRISTERO REBELLION [ Cristero Rebellion, a peasant uprising from 1926 to 1929, pushed Mexico to the brink of political chaos. The Cristeros generally saw the conflict as a religious war against the anticlericalism of the Mexican government. This anticlericalism originated in northern Mexico, where North American-style entrepreneurs, Protestant converts, and ambitious politicians built a movement to transform their traditionally Catholic nation into a center of secular economic expansion. The movement’s leading proponent, Plutarco Elías Calles (president of Mexico, 1924–1928), placed rigid regulations on the church, including required registration of priests and the closing of church schools. The church responded with a strike—the cessation of religious services—which caused a panic among the faithful. In Jalisco and the surrounding states of central Mexico, this panic sparked a peasant rebellion. Government claims that the rebels were superstitious tools of scheming priests were largely propaganda. Only about 45 of the 3,600 priests in Mexico supported the rebellion. The Cristeros were indigenous and mestizo peasants whose motives for rebellion were mixed. Most acted to defend their faith against an expansive secular state, while others seized the opportunity to demand more extensive land reform] – https://www.encyclopedia.com/humanities/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/cristero-rebellion The Cristero rebellion of 1926 had disrupted the religious atmosphere in Mexico for nine years and forced all foreign clergy out of Mexico. (The rebellion was instigated as a response to an executive decree by Mexican President Plutarco Elías Calles to strictly enforce Article 130 of the Constitution, a decision known as Calles Law. Calles sought to eliminate the power of the Catholic Church in Mexico, its affiliated organizations and to suppress popular religiosity.) However, Mexico’s political climate gradually worsened. Porfirio Diaz, Mexico’s longtime dictator, lost control of the government and revolution ensued. Shortly after serious fighting began in Mexico City in 1913, the church’s First Presidency authorized the Pratts and the American missionaries to return to the United States. The Pratts moved to Salt Lake City in September 1913. Two years later, the First Presidency again instructed the Pratts to move, this time to Manassa, Colorado, and establish missionary work among Mexicans in the United States. After five years, in November 1918, church leaders moved the mission headquarters to El Paso, Texas, making it closer to the center of the vast mission territory. In March 1921, Pratt reopened missionary work in Mexico with eight missionaries. In November, jurisdiction of the Juárez Stake in Chihuahua was transferred to the Mexican Mission. This made Pratt president of all the church’s Spanish-speaking organizations. He continued to expand the mission, opening up work in southern California in 1924 and establishing a Los Angeles branch. What this means for the Mormons is that their connection to Salt Lake is partially severed. The mexican Saints have no direct liaison to Salt Lake outside of mail and they must lead themselves inside the country. Rey Pratt the sort of local (As he had lived in Mexico off and on since he was 9 and had Mexican Citizenship) serving as the Mission President is the highest ranking leader they will have direct contact with for a almost a decade. And Rey seems to be well respected and manages keeping the Church there on track and growing. LOCAL LEADERSHIP MAP Rey L. Pratt was a much loved mission president. When Pratt was assigned in 1924 to help open the Church’s mission in Argentina, (next Slide 7) he appointed Isaias Juarez to preside over the central Mexican District, with Abel Paez and Bernabe Parra as his counselors. These three men maintained stability and confidence in the small branches in Mexico. The branches survived their isolation from Salt Lake City and some even flourished. But much of the Church members and leader’s stability depended on Rey Pratt’s guidance and direction. Pratt was also responsible for creating a new translation of the Book of Mormon into Spanish; he also translated many of the hymns of the church into Spanish. EY PRATT (Death) Disaster struck on April 14, 1931 following an operation for an intestinal rupture (appendicitis) and Rey L. Pratt died in Salt Lake City. Antoine Ridgeway Ivins Antoine Ridgeway Ivins was appointed to replace Rey Pratt. Ivins showed no interest in his new appointment. For nearly a year he never paid a visit to Mexico nor did he communicate with the leaders or members there. The Mexican Saints get together (The first Convention) and request the Church do something about the lack of leadership they are getting from Salt Lake and wished for a native born leader. The fact that they received no support nor a response to their petition for a native born mission leader increased the chasm. (He wasn’t lazy, just didn’t prioritize the Mexican Saints) Antoine Ivins and Melvin J Ballard Finally in the spring of 1932, nearly a year after his appointment as Mexican mission president, Antoine R. Ivins traveled with Elder Melvin J. Ballard to Mexico to meet with the petitioning Mexican Mormons (I believe this trip was in response to what is now understood as the 2nd Convention). IVINS AND JUAREZ Ivins approached the situation aggressively. He reprimanded the members for their assertiveness in sending a petition to Salt Lake City. President Antoine Ivins returned to the United States and left them alone once again. A silent arrangement between President Ivins and President Isaias Juarez continued through the end of Ivins term in 1934. Harold Wilcken Pratt The Cristero rebellion of 1926 had disrupted the religious atmosphere in Mexico for nine years and forced all foreign clergy out of Mexico. The ensuing isolation of the Mexican Mormon leaders from Church headquarters in Salt Lake City resulted in an understandable independence among them. Twice during Ivins serving as Mission President, the Mexican Saints had petitioned Church Headquarters to call a Mexican Citizen as Mission President Seeing they have a mess on their hands the Church releases Antoine Ivins in 1934 and calls Rey Pratt’s half brother Harold Wilcken Pratt as the new Mexican Mission President. While Pratt had lived stateside most of his life he was born in Mexico July 16th 1899 and had served a mission in Mexico 1921-1923. Besides that he is Rey Pratt’s half brother. With that mustache what could go wrong? Harold Wilcken Pratt [son of Helaman Pratt and Bertha Wilcken Pratt] was called to preside over the Mexican mission on January 1934 as clergy had recently been re-admitted into Mexico by the Mexican government. He presided for two and a half years from El Paso while he simultaneously continued to serve as counselor in the Juarez Stake Presidency.] Harold Pratt along with Abel Paez and Margarito Bautista (Valencia) The Mexican Saints independence away from Salt Lake’s Church Leadership and having a defunct Mission President in Ivins who failed to connect the local Saints to SLC’s Church Leadership, along with strong feelings of nationalism and ethnic pride persuaded several local leaders in and around Mexico City, to organize. Soon after news of Harold W. Pratt’s appointment reached Mexico City, Abel Páez, first counselor in the Mexican district presidency, was at work. Spurred on by his uncle, Margarito Bautista (Valencia), he summoned the Saints to a crisis conference now called the Third Convention. Who is Margarito Bautista Born in Mexico 1878 June 10, he converted to the Church Nov 10th 1901 in what he describes as a very spiritual experience. He has his conversion show up Stateside in the Improvement Era. Margarito Bautista was one of the most articulate members of the Church in Mexico. Bautista, a member for many years, was an experienced leader in the Church and was an ordained high priest. He had known and admired Rey L. Pratt. Bautista was an uncommonly literate man and a gifted orator who had worked to educate himself, studying English and living for many years in Salt Lake City, where he taught the Spanish-American branch’s Gospel Doctrine class in Sunday School. He had observed Church government over a number of years and had done ordinance work in the Salt Lake Temple. Like many temple workers, Bautista had become an expert genealogist. After 1934 he was back in Mexico helping the Mexican Saints trace their ancestry. Bautista took to heart many Book of Mormon prophecies that speak of the rise of the Lamanites. An avid scriptorian, he agreed with Rey L. Pratt and numerous other leaders that Mexican history was inseparable from Lamanite history and that Book of Mormon promises were inseparable from both. Rey Pratt had often expressed this theology to the Mexican Saints, many of whom took great pride in their mighty Lamanite ancestors. Bautista, stimulated by Rey Pratt’s sentiments, decided to write a book correlating Book of Mormon teachings with the Old Testament. Pratt, who was anxious to see more literature become available to the Mexican members, encouraged Bautista. Even after Pratt’s death, Bautista persisted, completing his manuscript in 1934. Isaias Juarez (District President) who was part of the first two Conventions is apprehensive about the preparations for this 3rd Convention “Sensing his people’s mood, Isaias Juárez, president of the mission’s Mexican district, was alarmed by their preparations for the Third Convention. He could see the implications perhaps better than anyone, having struggled through nine years and many storms to lead the mission. Juárez had learned to read the pulse of the Mexican Saints accurately. He knew this would be no simple petition; quite a few Mexican Mormons were determined to settle for nothing less than a Mexican leader, however unusual even odd, such a demand was for Mormons, whose authorities are always appointed from above, never “selected” by the congregation. Juárez also sensed accurately the mood of the authorities in Salt Lake City, he knew there would be no Mexican mission president forthcoming. The church, he reasoned, would not succumb to pressure politics, and he foresaw an unfortunate and inevitable clash.” Juarez comes up against Paez Isaias Juarez siding with the Church tried to dissuade Abel Paez out of confronting the Brethren in Salt Lake. Juárez was no passive fence-sitter. Having taken a position against the Third Convention, he then tried to soothe and persuade the Mexican Saints. Finally he issued a circular letter explaining that the meeting was unauthorized and out of order and that those who participated in it would be considered rebellious and therefore run the risk of excommunication. He contacted Harold Pratt posthaste and tried to sensitize him to the impending trouble and its roots. He met repeatedly with Abel Paez, trying to dissuade him. Paez waffling Juarez at first convinced Paez to call of his confrontation with Salt Lake but Paez returned to his position after speaking to Margarito Bautista The Third Convention The Third Convention convened on 26 April 1936. An observer was sent to take notes for Presidents Juárez and Pratt who did not attend. The Conventionists quickly decided that the Salt Lake City leaders had misunderstood their previous requests. Even though Harold Pratt had come from the Mormon colonies and was a Mexican citizen, he was not one by blood and race and certainly not one culturally. The Saints’ new petition was intended to convey their desire for a president who was Mexican by blood and spirit (de raza y sangre). Reasoning that the church’s General Authorities might not be aware of qualified Mexican members, the Third Convention decided to nominate a candidate. They considered several men, including Narciso Sandoval and Margarito Bautista. In the end, however, the convention settled on Abel Páez. They did not intend to demand Páez’s appointment but rather to clearly inform the Salt Lake City authorities that qualified Mexicans were available. After making their main decision, the Conventionists strengthened their petition in two ways. 1st wanting their leaders to recognize their intense seriousness, they agreed to gather signatures for the petition. 2nd, the Conventionists authorized a commission composed of Abel Páez, Narciso Sandoval, and Enrique González to travel to Salt Lake City and personally present the petition and supporting documents to the Mormon church’s General Authorities. Its business concluded, the Third Convention then adjourned.” Observer reports back When the Observer reported back to Harold Pratt and Isaias Juarez that Paez had gone through with the convention and relayed the outcome, Isaias Juárez wept hearing that his counselor of many years had betrayed him. “Harold Pratt realized that the Mexican brethren would soon implement their decisions. Seeking to prevent that, Pratt immediately contacted Abel Páez. They set a meeting for 30 April, the Thursday following the convention.” The Meeting On the appointed day Abel Páez met with Pratt, Juárez, and Bernabé Parra, the second counselor in the district presidency. After a long discussion, the men agreed on four points: 1st, Páez would terminate the Third Convention’s activities, including the gathering of signatures for the petition. Moreover, Páez would thereafter take no unilateral action on any matter without the district presidency’s consent, a hallowed leadership practice within the Mormon faith. 2nd, to show their unity and harmony, the four leaders- Páez, Juárez, Parra, and Pratt, would together visit all the local branches. Third, each would send a separate report of the Third Convention to the First Presidency of the Church. Fourth, all woul…

    Full show notes at the publisher

    Radio Free Mormon: 257: RFM Co-Hosts Mormon News Roundup! Nov 11, 2022
    Show notes

    RFM has a free-for-all with the gang at Mormon News Roundup! Keeping up with Mormonism in the news has never been so much fun!


    Mormonism LIVE: 100: 100th Episode Super Show Nov 03, 2022
    Show notes

    To celebrate our 100th episode, we invite all of you to join us as we take a look back at the past 99 episodes and share which have been most meaningful and which are our favorites and we will be taking calls from you our listeners and letting you share with us which ones meant the most to you!


    Radio Free Mormon: 256: Invasion of the Miracle Snatchers! Oct 29, 2022
    Show notes

    Is it possible a prophet of God would steal someone else’s miracle story for themselves? Check out this podcast for a famous miracle story of Wilford Woodruff where he may have just done that very thing!


    Mormonism LIVE: 099: The 1826 Trial of Joseph Smith The Glass Looker Oct 27, 2022
    Show notes

    On this week’s episode we take a deeper look at the 1826 trial in Bainbridge, NY. We examine what led to the trial, what witnesses claimed, what we know about the trial proceedings, how Smith and Stowell got introduced to each other, and a few other interesting facts along the way that make this such an interesting episode in Church history. This outline was used in preparation for Mormonism LIVE: 099 : The 1826 Trial of Joseph Smith, The Glass Looker – https://youtu.be/A2JxyoOtNlM On this week’s episode we take a deeper look at the 1826 trial in Bainbridge, NY. We examine what led to the trial, what witnesses claimed, what we know about the trial proceedings, how Smith and Stowell got introduced to each other, and a few other interesting facts along the way that make this such an interesting episode in Church history. A.) SET THE STAGE Spring of 1825, Joseph Smith is at Simpson (Simeon in some records) Stowell’s home in palmyra when Simpson’s father Josiah Stowell visits him and Joseph Smith uses his seer ability, presumably the stone in the hat and proceeds to amaze those in attendance with a couple of “Remote Viewing” performances such as describing Josiah’s house and outhouses correctly while all of them are at palmyra and Stowell’s property for which presumably Joseph Smith had never seen, is located in Bainbridge NYJosiah Stowell, so amazed at the Prophet’s ability, hires him to both work the farm and to lead treasure digs near Stowell’s property in NY (SLIDE 1)Several Members of Stowell’s family, Joseph Smith Jr. and Sr., Isaac Hale and other members of the Hale family and a few others make a “mining” agreement on Nov 1st 1825 (SLIDE 2 & 3) and the Church agrees it is Authentic Joseph Smith is living on Stowell’s property for about half a year working the farm and doing these treasure digs but they are finding absolutely nothing and these digs are failing at every turn.Members of Stowell’s family along with others in the community perceive that Stowell is being taken advantage of and on March 20th 1826 Joseph Smith is brought before the court on charges of being a “disorderly person and an imposter”The trial is first printed in Fraser Magazine February 1873 Edition and then reprinted again in the Utah Christian Advocate January 1886 Edition (SLIDE 4 & 5)Frasers Magazine 12 July 1873 http://www.fullerconsideration.com/images/frasersmagazine08unkngoog_0243-0244.jpg (Document page 229 [pdf 248])https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/appendix-docket-entry-20-march-1826-state-of-new-york-v-js-a/1 B.) Where does the author in Fraser’s Magazine locate this trial record? In Bainbridge? Nope. From enemies? Nope. Rather from an old lady in Salt Lake City who kept records of Joseph Smith’s altercations with the Law. (SLIDE 6)It gets worse though because the Utah Christian Advocate says this was taken directly from the record books of a bainbridge justice of the peace by a daughter or niece (suspicion since he doesn’t know) who tore the record out of the books and the author claims he verified. (SLIDE 6) C.) Capt’n Kidd W.D Purple is in 1877 in the Chenango Union is giving us info about these treasure Digging activities and implies that Stowell is looking for Capt’n Kidd’s treasure.Notice the implication that Stowell knows the story of Capt’n Kidd – hence we should expect that Joseph is informed about said stories too. Not appropriate to start with the assumption he may not have known them. More rational to start with he did. (SLIDE 7)According to J. H. Kennedy, Joseph “made confession” that the autobiography of Captain Kidd “made a deep impression upon him.” Kennedy does not say in what context Smith made this “confession.” Palmyra native Philetus B. Spear recalled in an 1873 interview that as a boy Joseph “had for a library a copy of the ‘Arabian Nights,’ stories of Captain Kidd, and a few novels.”89 Pomeroy Tucker also mentions Joseph’s youthful fascination with Captain Kidd, Stephen Burroughs the counterfeiter, and others, noting that such stories “presented the highest charms for his expanding mental perceptions.”90 Ellen E. Dickinson similarly wrote: It is said that Joseph at an early age could read, but not write; and when quite young committed these lines to memory from the story of Captain Kidd, the notorious pirate, which seemed to give him great pleasure: “My name was Robert Kidd, As I sailed, as I sailed; And most wickedly I did As I sailed, as I sailed.”91 D.) The Proceedings themselves Living w/ Stowell (5 Months) most of the time and a small part of time out looking for mines. But mostly farm work and going to schoolSome quotes indicate that Smith used treasure digging as a way to get out of farm work while still bringing in the needed income.Had been employed to work at the farm part time E.) Joseph Smith claims he is in Bainbridge “spending a small time looking for mines but mostly working for Stowell on the farming and “Going to School” He is 20/21 during the time of these digs. What school would a frontier adult go to that he could be speaking of? College/university? Trade School? F.) He mentions his seer stone and his seeing ability. Work had slowed down because this line of work was bad for his eyes. They were soreHe was turning down most workBut with stowell he found some “oar” (ore) that looked like goldBut its not gold…. So why is such promising?They would find a tail feather though not the buried treasure that was supposed to be with it. (Could the foretold item have been planted by Smith before or during the dig? Does this not best explain what is happening?)He describes Stowell’s house and outhouse from Palmyra while staying at “Simpson Stowell’s” (Is this a relative of Josiah? Sources claim this is Josiah’s son) Could Stowell’s son have described Josiah’s property at an earlier time? Could Joseph have had enough info to make an educated guess? (This is how psychics work) G.) Testimony of Others Horace Stowell testifiedArad Stowell TestifiedPretends to read a book with his back turned to the book, with the book open lying upon a white cloth, while using the stoneThis seems significant as if it points to a photographic memory and that as far as an outside observer could tell, he is doing the same sort of “translation work” as he did with the Book of MormonRather than exclude all light he instead places his stone near a candleSeveral seem disgusted as the fraud was so noticeable that they said it was palpable (almost a physical knowledge that he was a frauding them)McMaster said Joseph claimed if he held his stone to the sun or candle (excluding light hurt his eyes so he declined to use the hat and instead choosing instead the Sun (or a candle) Johnathon Thompson – Joseph told them where a trunk was buried and they dug 5’ and (someone or the group) heard the shovel hit what sounded like a plank or board.“Two indians had buried the chest” – Lamanites. Joseph’s tales already have “Indians” involved. These indians fought and one killed the other and buried him in the hole “to Guard It”.Isn’t Moroni a guardian Spirit of the same sort? (SLIDE 11 then back to 12) Below is a second hand report of how Joseph Smith Sr. described his son’s interaction with Moroni He believes without seeing a chest that he certainly must of hit it (most rational explanation in his mind for the sound)in spite of it sinking into the earth but as outsiders can we see how irrational that perspective is. That a sound can provide one a conclusion in spite of needing magic in order to not see what should have been there and visible?The trunk stayed at distance, just out of reach to touch or to be seen.Isn’t that convenient“Salt might be found in bainbridge”Stolen items, ancient treasures, salt depositsThompson believes JS can discern with his stone and hat“Witness lost some money and Joseph was able to describe the man Witness thought had taken it.” H.) Court Costs The costs themselves Court Charges: (Is this all in cents?) Court found defendant guilty Cost warrant – 19 cents Complaint upon Oath – 25.7 Witnesses – 87.5 Recognizince – 25 Mitimus – 19 Recognizince for Witness – 75 Subpoena – 18 TOTAL? $2.68 (verified by the docket commentary on such in next section) IF THIS PROCEEDING IS TRUE, LDS APOLOGISTS STATE IT WOULD BE THE MOST DAMNING EVIDENCE AGAINST MORMONISM The Mormon writer Francis W. Kirkham just could not allow himself to believe that the 1826 court record was authentic. He, in fact, felt that if the transcript were authentic it would disprove Mormonism: “A careful study of all facts regarding this alleged confession of Joseph Smith in a court of law that he had used a seer stone to find hidden treasure for purposes of fraud, must come to the conclusion that no such record was ever made, and therefore, is not in existence…. had he [Joseph Smith] made this confession in a court of law as early as 1826, or four years before the Book of Mormon was printed, and this confession was in a court record, it would have been impossible for him to have organized the restored Church. (A New Witness For Christ In America, vol. 1, pages 385-387) “If a court record could be identified, and if it contained a confession by Joseph Smith which revealed him to be a poor, ignorant, deluded, and superstitious person — unable himself to write a book of any consequence, and whose church could not endure because it attracted only similar persons of low mentality — if such a court record confession could be identified and proved, then it follows that his believers must deny his claimed divine guidance which led them to follow him…. How could he be a prophet of God, the leader of the Restored Church to these tens of thousands, if he had been the superstitious fraud which ‘the pages from a book’ declared he confessed to be?” (Ibid., p. 486-487) The noted Mormon apologist Hugh Nibley published a book in which this statement appeared: “…if this court record is authentic it is the most damning evidence in existence against Joseph Smith.” (The Myth Makers, 1961, page 142) On the same page we read that such a court record would be “the most devastating blow to Smith ever delivered.” Because he could see the serious implications of the matter, Dr. Nibley tried in every way possible to destroy the idea that the court record was an authentic document. I.) Additional Documentation Neeley’s Fee Bill – https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/fee-bill-circa-9-november-1826-state-of-new-york-v-js-a/1 (SLIDE 13) Why this is important – Because once we find the additional documentation that verifies $2.68 as the total, we add credibility to the trial proceeding retelling (SLIDE 14) 2nd Fee Bill – Philip M. De Zeng https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/fee-bill-1826-state-of-new-york-v-js-a/1 (SLIDE 15) J.) Surrounding Statements that shape our perception Oliver Cowdery claims Joseph was acquitted at the 1826 trial“Oliver Cowdery, who did not attend the hearing (he met Joseph Smith about three years later), mentioned the most likely result in light of missing documentation, that Joseph was acquitted of being a disorderly person.”(SLIDE 16) Cowdery may be confusing an 1830 trial that he took part in where Joseph actually was acquitted though the Church’s footnote makes sense to me.Should Cowdery’s non first hand telling be considered strong enough evidence to dismiss the alleged court proceeding? noDefer to RFMThe first 1830 Trial – Court Case before Justice of the Peace Joseph Chamberlin, South Bainbridge, Chenango County, New York: Constable Ebenezer Hatch arrested Joseph Smith on June 30, 1830, held him over night, and brought him before Justice Joseph P. Chamberlin on a charge of being a disorderly person.Abram Willard Benton, the man who filed the disorderly person complaint against Smith in 1830, also wrote an account of this 1830 trial.8 Benton also relates Stowell’s testimony: (https://user.xmission.com/~research/early/court1830.htm)Josiah Stowell, a Mormonite, being sworn, testified that he positively knew that said Smith never had lied to, or deceived him, and did not believe he ever tried to deceive anybody else. (SLIDE 17)“Did Smith ever tell you there was money hid in a certain place which he mentioned? Yes.Did he tell you, you could find it by digging?Yes.Did you dig?Yes.Did you find any money?No.Did he not lie to you then, and deceive you?NO, the money was there, but we did not get quite to it!How do you know it was there?Smith said it was. ( A. W. Benton, “Mormonites,” Evangelical Magazine and Gospel Advocate, April 9, 1831, p. 120, as reprinted in Francis W. Kirkham, A New Witness for Christ in America*, (Brigham Young University, 1959) II:467-468)*This is called circular reasoning and it is exemplified by Kerry Muhlstein (soundbite) “It is reported, and probably true, that he commenced his juggling by stealing and hiding property belonging to his neighbors, and when inquiry was made, he would look in his stone, (his gift and power) and tell where it was.”Remember the Miners hill episode where in the “Mormon Cave” were found various animal remains and debris or items. (I think every instance of claims that Joseph Smith found lost property through a seer stone should note the most rational explanation is something other than the supernatural or magic.)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4qiP2hZtcACompare to the feather story – Could Joseph have hid the feather before or during the dig? How’s that not the most rational answer especially in light of not finding the treasure that went with it.SECOND 1830 TRIAL(actual newspaper article) – https://user.xmission.com/~research/early/court1830.htm (easier to read transcript)Church description“that he had been acquainted with Smith, the prisoner, for several years; that prisoner pretended to look in a certain glass, or stone, and said he could tell where stolen goods were, and could discover mines of gold and silver under ground (THOUGH NONE EVER FOUND); made some pretence at telling fortunes, but he, witness, never knew of prisoner’s finding any thing by his pretended art.”Harris Stowell “hid a bag of grain in his barn, told Smith he had lost a bag of grain, and wished prisoner to find it; prisoner looked in his glass in vain, for he could not find it; prisoner, after using all his art for a number of days, offered to give witness’ brother fifty cents (so his brother told witness,) to find where the grain was, and tell him, prisoner, unbeknown to witness, so that Smith, the prisoner, might have the credit of finding the grain.” – https://user.xmission.com/~research/early/court1830.htmAgain we have Joseph Smith allegedly using deception to to give off the impression that he can find lost items.Could not Joseph Smith have employed a similar tactic to have Simpson Stowell describe his father’s property so that Smith could later imply supernatural ability in describing Josiah Stowell’s farm?The 2 1830 Trials (Only important as Cowdery said Smith was acquitted and likely was misremembering the 1830 rather than 1826https://user.xmission.com/~research/early/court1830.htm K.) Other Interesting data points Ronald Jackson, a believing member forged a reprint of Wesley Walters discovery of the 1826 court docket http://www.utlm.org/newsletters/no68.htm. Why does Jackson feel the need to do this? Because he believes the original is damning to Mormonism. CONCLUSION: Witness testimony implies that Joseph never found any treasure and that while many believed him to have real power, it was them accepting such on his word with either no results OR the belief on others that he had deceptively created the appearance of supernatural abilitySetting up the deception so that objects could be hidden and then discovered later under alleged magicThrough stealing property and then locating it for the victimPlacing items in places to be found laterBribing individuals to give him information that he could then “reveal” to others later (feather but not the accompanying treasure,…

    Full show notes at the publisher

    Radio Free Mormon: 255: Four Recent Discoveries! Oct 23, 2022
    Show notes

    RFM delves into four fascinating items related to Mormonism he has only recently discovered.

    You won’t want to miss this one!


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