Stay ConnectedAnyone paying attention can tell you that our criminal legal system is perpetuating cruelty and harm, but the complexity of the legal world overwhelms most people simply trying to get through another day.
Public Defenseless explores the rot in the justice system and what we can do about it. Join host, Hunter Parnell, as he interviews top defense attorneys and criminal justice stakeholders from across the country as they pull apart the convoluted web of our criminal justice system.
Last year, Hunter spoke with members of the newly formed Defenders Union of Colorado (DUC) to discuss their reason for unionization and the challenges facing all employees of Colorado Public Defense. Today, Hunter is once again speaking with DUC, but this time, they discussed the complete failure of leadership to be transparent with them and how that is eroding trust between the two.
Guests:
Kiyomi Bolick, Long Time Colorado Public Defender and a Founding Organizer of DUC
Mike Kubicek, Investigator, Durango Office of the Public Defender
Oliver Rose Katz, Administrative Assistant, Brighton Office of the Public Defender
Resources:
Colorado Public Defenders Raise Concern over Pay
https://www.denverpost.com/2023/05/17/colorado-public-defenders-pay-petition-union-16-million/
Follow DUC on Twitter
https://twitter.com/DefenderUnionCO
Follow DUC on Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/defenders_union_of_colorado/
Colorado Public Defender
https://www.coloradodefenders.us/
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When the Sixth Amendment Center came to Indiana, it left no doubt that Public Defense in the state was failing. Now seven years later, almost nothing has changed. How can that be possible? To answer that question and exploring why Indiana's Public Defender system is still failing, Hunter spoke with three Public Defenders, Ashley Spolarich, Deana Martin, and Joel Schumm, from Indiana.
Guests:
Ashley Spolarich, Chief Deputy Public Defender, Montgomery County Indiana
Deana Martin, Major Case/Forensic Attorney, Marion County
Professor Joel Schumm, Clincal Professor, Indiana Robert McKinney School of Law
Resources:
Sixth Amendment Center Report
Indiana Public Defender Task Force
Indiana Workload Report
https://www.in.gov/publicdefender/files/The-Indiana-Project_FINAL.pdf
Lawsuits in various counties in the state
· Johnson County: https://www.theindianalawyer.com/articles/45762-coa-affirms-dismissal-of-johnson-county-public-defender-suit
· Allen County: https://www.southbendtribune.com/story/news/crime/2016/01/06/suit-filed-against-allen-county-over-public-defender-system/46421583/
(Docket: https://clearinghouse.net/case/15792/?docket_page=2#docket)
Indiana Lawyer Article on Shortage of Public Defenders
Indiana Public Defender Council
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Today, Hunter spoke with Professor Ieshaah Murphy to understand how the racist history of the "Child Welfare" should inform our understanding of that very systems today. When analyzing a system for any type of systemic bias, it is essential to understand bot the past and present of the system. If a system that claims to be race neutral, but started with a clear racial animus and continues to produce racially disparate outcomes, it is compelling evidence that its bias initial purpose may still be active to this day.
Guests:
Professor Ieshaah Murphy, Assistant Professor of Law and Director of the Criminal Defense and Racial Justice Clinic, University of DC David A. Clarke School of Law
Resources:
Follow Professor Murphy on Twitter
https://twitter.com/IeshaahMurphy
Professor Murphy's Faculty Page
https://law.udc.edu/ieshaah-murphy/
Fostering False Identities Book
https://www.amazon.com/Fostering-False-Identity-Welfare-Systems/dp/B08TQGG3FR
Torn Apart
https://www.amazon.com/Torn-Apart-Destroys-Families-Abolition/dp/1541675444
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How many people die in custody? Such a simple question, but no one can actually tell you the answer. Today, Hunter spoke with Professor Jay Aronson to discuss his new book Death in Custody: How America Ignores the Truth and What We Can Do about It to explore the reasons why.
Guests:
Professor Jay Aronson, Professor of Science, Technology, and Society, Carnegie Mellon University
Resources:
Buy the book (use code HTWN)
https://www.press.jhu.edu/books/authors/jay-d-aronson-phd
Professor Aronson Faculty Page
https://www.cmu.edu/dietrich/history/people/faculty/aronson.html
Follow Professor Aronson on Twitter
https://twitter.com/jaydaronson
Listen to the Official Ignorance Podcast!
https://open.spotify.com/show/5n5OPnSGj3A3RYFvcJIH62?si=J65-gXWlRrWhSiaU8m7pZw
https://officialignorance.com/earl-faison-and-the-origins-of-the-official-ignorance-project/
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For cops and prosecutors, the idea of not having access to their own forensic departments is almost inconceivable, but for Public Defense, that is the standard practice. Today, Hunter sat down with Jerome Greco, the supervising attorney for one of the only digital forensics unit in the country made specifically available to Public Defenders. With the rapid expansion of surveillance and digital technology in the hands of police and prosecutors, Public Defense should look to the success of Jerome and his team as a potential model to fight back.
Guests:
Jerome Greco, Digital Forensics Supervising Attorney, New York Legal Aid Society
Resources:
Follow Jerome on Twitter
https://twitter.com/JeromeDGreco
Email Jerome
jgreco@legal-aid.org
Upturn
NACDL 4th Amendment Center
https://www.nacdl.org/Landing/FourthAmendmentCenter
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Today, Hunter is once again joined by former NACDL President Martin Sabelli to discuss the criminal charge that everyone is talking about, RICO. As with many laws on the books, RICO started out designed to target a specific group of people: leadership of the Mafia. Also like many laws on the books, it was written in such an ambiguous and wide manner that prosecutors could use it far beyond its intended purpose. Over the years, RICO has been used against targets never intended or envisioned by those who originally supported the law, and today's episode is all about understanding how that happened, why it happened, and what, if anything, we can do to try and stop the creative and expansive use of a law that infringes on the rights of people every time a prosecutor decides to be "creative" with its use of RICO.
Guests:
Martin Sabelli, Former President of NACDL and longtime Federal Criminal Defense Attorney
Resources:
Resources on RICO Cases
1st Amendment and RICO
https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/1237/rico-laws
Issues with RICO
https://sites.law.duq.edu/juris/2021/11/17/the-checkered-past-and-present-of-the-rico-act/
Fani Willis Prosecution of Teachers
https://theappeal.org/atlanta-cheating-prosecutions-fani-willis-rico/
Issues with RICO
https://www.independent.org/publications/TIR/article.asp?id=215
Email Martin
msabelli@sabellilaw.com
Contact Hunter Parnell:
Publicdefenseless@gmail.com
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Despite being the bedrock of our criminal legal system, "the jury trial is an exceptional rather than a commonplace outcome." Today, Hunter is joined by Martin Sabelli and Nathan Pysno to discuss somethings leading to the erosion of the jury trial. Specifically, they discuss how harsh sentences enable coercive plea bargaining and enshrine the "trial penalty". Few if any other Constitutionally protected rights lead to a person being punished for using them, but the trial penalty is nothing more than punishing people for forcing the government to prove a person committed a crime at trial.
Guests:
Martin Sabelli, Former President of NACDL and Criminal Defense Attorney
Nathan Pysno, Director of Economic Crime and Procedural Justice, NACDL
Resources:
ABA Report on Jury Trials Disappearing
https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2020/12/report-jury-trials/
ABA Plea Bargaining Task Force Report
https://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/publications/criminaljustice/plea-bargain-tf-report.pdf
NACDL Trial Penalty
https://www.nacdl.org/Document/TrialPenaltySixthAmendmentRighttoTrialNearExtinct
End the Trial Penalty
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In the past few weeks, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis decided to abuse his powers once again as the head of state and remove an elected State Attorney. This time, the 9th Judicial Circuit State Attorney Monique Worrell landed in Governor DeSantis' cross hairs. Today, Hunter is joined by Central Florida Criminal Defense Attorney Andrew Darling to discuss what happened. If you take the story that Governor DeSantis proclaims on face value, you could be led to believe that Worrell was a rouge prosecutor allowing crime to go unpunished. As Andrew points out however, Worrell was a moderately progressive prosecutor who's biggest deviation from the norm was wanting to pursue rehabilitation for youthful offenders, keeping low level drug offenses in diversionary programs, and a willingness to pursue cases against Police for their abuse of power.
Guests:
Andrew Darling, Criminal Defense Attorney, Central Florida
Resources:
Gov DeSantis' Executive Order Removing State Attorney Monique Worrell
Twitter Thread Explaining the Falsities in Gov DeSantis' Claims
https://twitter.com/LutherEvers/status/1689672379776073728
Warren v. DeSantis
https://casetext.com/case/warren-v-desantis-1
Follow Andrew on
Twitter: https://twitter.com/MrDarling4
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mrdarling4/
Darling Law: https://darlinglaw.com/
Orange County Court of Clerks 2023CF003924-A-O
https://www.myorangeclerk.com/
Indictment of Orange County Deputy Bruce Stolk
Contact Hunter Parnell:
Publicdefenseless@gmail.com
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Trust between Public Defenders and the communities they serve has been a long running theme of the show. The benefits of such a trusting relationship seem obvious, but today, Hunter spoke with Wisconsin Public Defender, Alexander Kostal, to discuss an extremely important outcome from a trusting attorney/client relationship: increased opportunity for litigation. In order to push back against the overreaches of police and prosecutors, cases need to be heard in an open court room, but what if the client does not trust you to take it that far? How do you earn back that trust? What can institutions in public defense do to try and make it easier for communities to trust Public Defenders? All this and more explored on today's episode!
Guests:
Alexander Kostal, Assistant State Public Defender, Wisconsin
Resources:
Contact Hunter Parnell:
Publicdefenseless@gmail.com
@PublicDefenselessPodcast
@PDefenselessPod
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In back-to-back years, the Sixth Amendment Center revealed that Public Defense in Detroit was failing. Both the contract and institutional Public Defender were failing to provide competent counsel in every case. For the largest city in Michigan, the future seemed dire. Then, the Neighborhood Defender Services extended their non-profit Public Defender Model to the city, and for the first time in a long time, there was a glimmer of hope for holistic defense in Detroit. Joining Hunter to speak about the challenges, trials, and hope for a better future for Detroit Public Defense is Cait De Mott Grady, Jonathan Roberts, and Tom Molina-Durate from the NDS Detroit Union. As with most union episodes, the demands of the union are similar: better pay for core staff and meaningful restrictions on workload. Hopefully, the contract negotiations will support the struggling workers of NDS Detroit and provide a spark for the continued improvement of Public Defense in Detroit.
Guests:
Cait De Mott Grady, Staff Attorney and Union Member, NDS Detroit
Jonathan Roberts, Staff Attorney and Union Member, NDS Detroit
Tom Molina-Duarte, Social Worker and Union Member, NDS Detroit
Resources:
NDS Detroit
https://neighborhooddefender.org/locations/detroit/
Sixth Amendment Center Wayne County Reports
https://sixthamendment.org/wayne-county-report/
https://sixthamendment.org/wayne-county-report-2019/
Follow the Union on Twitter
Follow the Union on Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/ndsunion/
Contact Hunter Parnell:
Publicdefenseless@gmail.com
@PublicDefenselessPodcast
@PDefenselessPod
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