Stay ConnectedAnyone paying attention can tell you that our criminal legal system is perpetuating cruelty and harm, but the complexity of the legal world overwhelms most people simply trying to get through another day.
Public Defenseless explores the rot in the justice system and what we can do about it. Join host, Hunter Parnell, as he interviews top defense attorneys and criminal justice stakeholders from across the country as they pull apart the convoluted web of our criminal justice system.
Today, Hunter spoke with Harris County, Texas Chief Public Defender Alex Bunin. Just over a decade ago, Public Defense in Harris County looked like it did in most of the state. A group of private defense counsel contracted with the county to provide Public Defense. Unfortunately, Harris County was not spared of the many, well documented issues, with a primarily privately contracted public defense system. Then the county established the Public Defender Office, and since then, Alex and his team have gradually started taking on more cases and expanding the definition of what Public Defense is.
Guest
Alex Bunin, Chief Public Defender, Harris County, Texas
Resources:
Harris County Public Defender Website
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Today, Hunter sat with Josh Occhiogrosso-Schwartz, a Principal at the Wren Collective, to discuss their recent report on flat rate Public Defender contracts in California. Long time listeners of the show will recall that the American Bar Association discourages the use of flat rate fees because of the negative economic incentive it creates for the attorneys working under those contracts. In what will come as a surprise to no one who studies Public Defense, the Wren Collective examined the 24 counties in California who utilized flat rate contracts for their Public Defender needs, and they found a system that wholly failed to protect the right to counsel. From a lack of investigators to minimal oversight over specific attorneys, these flat rate contracts are failing the counties in California. Fortunately, there is a bill pending in the state that may see the use of these contracts come to an end.
Guest
Josh Occhiogrosso-Schwartz, Principal, The Wren Collective
Resources:
Read the Report Here:
https://www.wrencollective.org/_files/ugd/8fe8f0_71aac7e039fd4ee695ec6c8736cd1b72.pdf
Contact Josh Here
josh.occhiogrosso-schwartz@wrencollective.com
Follow the Bill (AB690) Here
https://aclucalaction.org/bill/ab-690/
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Today, Hunter spoke with Julie Ciccolini, the CEO of Techtivist. When she was working as a paralegal at the NY Legal Aid Society, Julie, like so many in a Public Defender Office, realized that there was immense amounts of data on police misconduct that was going un-used. So, Julie helped to set up a database that allowed Public Defenders to track and use this data in their cases. Realizing that this issue extended far beyond New York, Julie founded Techtivist as a way to help Public Defenders set up and utilize databases that keep track of police misconduct.
Guest
Julie Ciccolini, CEO, Techtivist
Resources:
Check out Techtivist Here
Read the Blue Wall of Silence Report Here
https://www.nacdl.org/Document/DismantlingtheBlueWallofSilenceTrackLawEnfMiscond
Contact Hunter Parnell:
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Today, Hunter sat down with Zachary Heiden, Carol Garvan, and Professor Eve Primus to discuss the ACLU of Maine's major victory in the fight to change Maine's Public Defense. Since the Sixth Amendment Center's report came out years ago, one thing was clear about Public Defense in Maine: it was in a state of crisis. Now, there finally appears to be a path out of the crisis. Thanks in part to the lawsuit filed by the ACLU of Maine, the courage of public defenders, the judiciary, and the delayed but strong action of the legislature, Maine is on the path to Public Defender Offices around the state. On this episode, we discuss how this happened, why it was needed, and what other states can and should learn from this story.
Guest
Carol Garvan, Legal Director, ACLU of Maine
Zachary Heiden, Chief Counsel, ACLU of Maine
Eve Primus, Professor of Law, University of Michigan
Resources:
Contact the ACLU of Maine Here
Read more about the decision here
6AC Report
https://6ac.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/6AC_me_report_2019.pdf
Professor Primus's Faculty Page
https://michigan.law.umich.edu/faculty-and-scholarship/our-faculty/eve-brensike-primus
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@PublicDefenselessPodcast
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Today, Hunter is Re-Releasing his episode with Professor of Law Corinna Lain becuase her book, Secretes of the Killing State: The Untold Story of Lethal Injection, is now available! If you haven't listened already or picked up a copy of the book, now is great time to remember the hisotry of lethal injection and what that history means for the death peanlty today!
https://www.amazon.com/Secrets-Killing-State-Untold-Injection/dp/1479832960
Today, Hunter spoke with Law Professor Corinna Lain to discuss her career of research around the death penalty and lethal injection. While it may seem strange to hyper focus on lethal injection, there is something to be said about understanding how and why lethal injection became the defacto method for state sanctioned murder. When lethal injection was offered to the American people, it was designed to do one simple thing: hide the reality of state sponsored murder. So long as people could look away from the violence of the state, they could place execution out of mind. In doing so, the practice could continue in relative secrecy. Today's episode is about lifting the shroud on that secrecy to examine the way the lethal injection is just as, if not more, violent, cruel, and unusual and any other form of execution.
Guests:
Corrina Lain, SD Roberts and Sandra Moore Professor of Law, Richmond School of Law
Resources:
Can Europe end the Death Penalty? https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/02/can-europe-end-the-death-penalty-in-america/283790/
US Botched Executions
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/executions/botched-executions
Execution of Clayton Lockett
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/13/botched-oklahoma-execution-clayton-lockett-bloody-mess
Corinna Lain Faculty Page
https://law.richmond.edu/faculty/clain/
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Today, Hunter spoke Massachusetts Criminal Defense Lawyer Murat Erkan. Recently, Murat represented Wilson Martell-Lebron in a criminal trial in Boston Municipal Court. Martell-Lebron faced two felony charges related to accusations that he lied on his driver's license application. At its core, this case was an accusation that Martell-Lebron was an undocumented immigrant. However, Martell-Lebron never got to vindicate his innocence because the Suffolk County DA, the police involved in the case, and an ICE agent conspired to abducted Martell-Lebron in the middle of his trial. This episode is a wild documentation of a conspiracy to subvert a man's right to trial.
Guest
Murat Erkan, Partner and Criminal Defense Lawyer, Erkan Sullivan PC, Massachusetts
Resources:
Google Drive Containing the Court Filings
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1pegoD0V5gEFXZqcsMQKOYcu9s1_AX3JV?usp=sharing
Coverage Once the Federal Court got the Contempt
https://apnews.com/article/ice-immigration-arrest-trial-contempt-8b35498ddd96ccf1bc3ff772e6ef5106
Contact Hunter Parnell:
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Today, Hunter spoke with Damon Drake, Executive Director of We Resolve Minnesota, a participatory defense organization out of the twin cities. As is the case in our discussion about participatory defense, Damon joins the show to discuss the successes and challenges of trying to get Public Defenders onboard with the participatory defense.
Guest
Damon Drake, Executive Director, We Resolve Minnesota
Resources:
Learn more about We Resolve Here
Contact Hunter Parnell:
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Today, Hunter spoke with Heather Rogers and Caitlin Becker of the Santa Cruz County Public Defenders. In 2020, the Sixth Amendment Center put together a report detailing the severe issues with how Santa Cruz County provided Public Defense. At the time, a law firm was working a flat rate fee contract to provide public defender services in the county. As is expected, that system was deeply flawed and couldn't meet the demands of the Sixth Amendment. Fast forward five years, Heather, Caitlin, and the team at the Santa Cruz County Public Defender has transformed the office into a comprehensive holistic defender program. How did that happen? What are the benefits of this model? All those questions and more on today's episode!
Guest
Heather Rogers, The Public Defender, Santa Cruz County, California
Caitlin Becker, Director of Holistic Defense, Santa Cruz County, California
Resources:
Read the 6AC Report Here
https://6ac.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/6AC_ca_santacruzcountyreport_2020.pdf
Contact Santa Cruz County Public Defenders Here
https://www.santacruzdefenders.us/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/heather-rogers-3525b4242/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtvUi9TWRyNIOvEwgHN87KA
https://www.facebook.com/CruzDefenders#
https://www.instagram.com/cruzdefender/
Contact Hunter Parnell:
Publicdefenseless@gmail.com
@PublicDefenselessPodcast
@PDefenselessPod
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Guest
Heather Rogers, The Public Defender, Santa Cruz County, California
Caitlin Becker, Director of Holistic Defense, Santa Cruz County, California
Resources:
Read the 6AC Report Here
https://6ac.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/6AC_ca_santacruzcountyreport_2020.pdf
Contact Santa Cruz County Public Defenders Here
https://www.santacruzdefenders.us/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/heather-rogers-3525b4242/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtvUi9TWRyNIOvEwgHN87KA
https://www.facebook.com/CruzDefenders#
https://www.instagram.com/cruzdefender/
Contact Hunter Parnell:
Publicdefenseless@gmail.com
@PublicDefenselessPodcast
@PDefenselessPod
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Today, Hunter spoke with journalist Piper French about the wrongful conviction of Jimmie "Chris" Duncan. In 1998, Duncan was convicted of murdering his girlfriend's 23-month-old daughter. Originally, Duncan was charged with negligent homicide as it appeared his story, that he stepped away for a few minutes while the child took a bath and then she fell and drowned, was accurate. However, the notorious peddler of the junk science bite mark "evidence," Dr. Michael West, conducted a dubious autopsy where he pressed a mould of Duncan's teeth into the body of the girl. With this dubious autopsy and the help of a jail house snitch, the state convicted Duncan of capital murder. Since then, Duncan has been fighting to prove his innocence, but with Governor Jeff Landry's drive to increase the number of executions in the Louisiana, Duncan might never get the chance.
Guest
Piper French, Part Time Staff Writer at Bolt Magazine, Freelance Journalist
Resources:
Read the Article Here
https://boltsmag.org/the-human-cost-of-jeff-landrys-drive-to-resume-executions/
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2025/03/louisiana-execution-bolts-chris-duncan-jeff-landry-death-row-capital-punishment/
Read more by Piper Here
Contact Piper
piperstrehlowfrench@gmail.com
https://bsky.app/profile/psfrench.bsky.social
Read more About Duncan's Case Here
https://innocenceproject.org/petitions/stop-the-execution-of-an-innocent-man-jimmie-chris-duncan/
https://www.propublica.org/article/louisiana-jimmie-duncan-bite-mark-analysis-death-row-junk-science
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Today, Hunter sat down with Heather Lewis a participatory defense organizer and the Executive Director of the Reuniting Family Bail Fund. Unlike many places where participatory defense hubs have been set up, Montgomery County Public Defenders welcomed participatory defense with open arms. Today, we will see the benefit of having an activated community when policy makers retaliate against public defenders.
Guest
Heather Lewis, Reuniting Family Bail Fund, Montgomery County, Pennsylvania
Resources:
Reuniting Family Bail Fund Websites and Socials
https://www.youtube.com/@reunitingfamilybailfund
https://www.instagram.com/familybailfund/
https://www.facebook.com/reunitingfamilybailfund
Coverage of Retaliation Against Montgomery County Public Defenders
Contact Hunter Parnell:
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@PDefenselessPod
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