No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp

"Heathen: Religion and Race in American History" by Kathryn Gin Lum

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182: Unabridged Interview: Kathryn Gin Lum Nov 19, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Kathryn Gin Lum.

When is the last time you heard the word “heathen”? The word was originally used to delineate between European Christians who tended to be in urban centers and pagans in rural areas.

“Heathen exists in the mind of the person doing the labeling, right? It's a label that one people foists onto another.”

Our guest today, Kathryn Gin Lum, walks us through the history of the term heathen and how it has utterly shaped the world. We discuss her book Heathen: Religion and Race in American History. The idea behind the term was wielded as a weapon to justify colonization and enslavement, and though the term has fallen out of use, she says the mental map of the world it has created has not.

Show Notes

Resources mentioned this episode:

"The Origin of Others (The Charles Eliot Norton Lectures)" by Toni Morrison

Similar NSE episodes:

Willie James Jennings: The Christian Imagination

Eugene Cho Karen Korematsu: Fear, Home and the Asian-American Experience

Transcript of Abridged Interview

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182: Kathryn Gin Lum: How The Label Heathen Shaped the World Nov 14, 2024

When is the last time you heard the word “heathen”? The word was originally used to delineate between European Christians who tended to be in urban centers and pagans in rural areas.

“Heathen exists in the mind of the person doing the labeling, right? It's a label that one people foists onto another.”

Our guest today, Kathryn Gin Lum, walks us through the history of the term heathen and how it has utterly shaped the world. We discuss her book Heathen: Religion and Race in American History. The idea behind the term was wielded as a weapon to justify colonization and enslavement, and though the term has fallen out of use, she says the mental map of the world it has created has not.

Show Notes

Resources mentioned this episode:

"Heathen: Religion and Race in American History" by Kathryn Gin Lum

"The Origin of Others (The Charles Eliot Norton Lectures)" by Toni Morrison

Similar NSE episodes:

Willie James Jennings: The Christian Imagination

Eugene Cho and Karen Korematsu: Fear, Home and the Asian-American Experience

"Fully Alive: Discovering What Matters Most" by Tim Shriver

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181: Unabridged Interview: Tim Shriver Nov 12, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Tim Shriver.

On social media and the news, the narrative told about humanity is often one of violence, division, and dehumanization. But is that really who we are?

Tim Shriver, best-selling author and chairman of the Special Olympics, doesn’t think so. “My view,” he says, “is that the versions of our lives that most of us lead most days are much more hopeful.”

As the nephew of John F. Kennedy, Tim has known great privilege and great grief. As an educator and social worker, he has seen the countless ways that humans defy stereotypes and give grace and hope to one another. In this episode, he talks about why his life and career have led him to the conclusion that the key to a happy life is to live it for the flourishing of others.

Show Notes

Resources mentioned this episode:

Tim's Website

"Need a Lift?" Podcast

Similar NSE episodes:

Greg Boyle: Cherished Belonging

Martin Sheen: Actor and Activist

Ben Cohen: Peace, Justice, Ice Cream

"Fully Alive: Discovering What Matters Most" by Tim Shriver

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181: Tim Shriver: Living Life for Others Nov 07, 2024

On social media and the news, the narrative told about humanity is often one of violence, division, and dehumanization. But is that really who we are?

Tim Shriver, best-selling author and chairman of the Special Olympics, doesn’t think so. “My view,” he says, “is that the versions of our lives that most of us lead most days are much more hopeful.”

As the nephew of John F. Kennedy, Tim has known great privilege and great grief. As an educator and social worker, he has seen the countless ways that humans defy stereotypes and give grace and hope to one another. In this episode, he talks about why his life and career have led him to the conclusion that the key to a happy life is to live it for the flourishing of others.

Show Notes

Resources mentioned this episode:

Tim's Website

"Need a Lift?" Podcast

Similar NSE episodes:

Greg Boyle: Cherished Belonging

Martin Sheen: Actor and Activist

Ben Cohen: Peace, Justice, Ice Cream

"The Tipping Point" by Malcolm Gladwell

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180: Unabridged Interview: Philip Mangano Nov 05, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Philip Mangano.

Is homelessness a problem that can be solved?

Historically, efforts made to address homelessness in the US have taken a symptom-management approach, focusing on soup kitchens, clothing drives, and medical programs. But these well-intentioned efforts often have a paradoxical effect: over time, they end up serving more and more homeless people, rather than reducing the number of those unhoused.

In this episode, Philip Mangano describes his longtime effort to approach homelessness in a new way. “I took the abolitionist frame,” he says of his renowned Housing-First Initiative. “People were homeless, so the antidote must be a place to live.”

Show Notes

Resources mentioned this episode:

"Good to Great" by Jim Collins

"The Innovator’s Dilemma" by Clayton Christensen

Similar NSE episodes:

Malcolm Gladwell: Becoming Malcolm

Charlie Strobel: Remembering a Life Well Lived

Musa al-Gharbi: We Have Never Been Woke

James Lawson: The Architect of the United States Civil Rights Movement

"The Tipping Point" by Malcolm Gladwell

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180: Philip Mangano: Abolishing Homelessness Oct 31, 2024

Is homelessness a problem that can be solved?

Historically, efforts made to address homelessness in the US have taken a symptom-management approach, focusing on soup kitchens, clothing drives, and medical programs. But these well-intentioned efforts often have a paradoxical effect: over time, they end up serving more and more homeless people, rather than reducing the number of those unhoused.

In this episode, Philip Mangano describes his longtime effort to approach homelessness in a new way. “I took the abolitionist frame,” he says of his renowned Housing-First Initiative. “People were homeless, so the antidote must be a place to live.”

Show Notes

Resources mentioned this episode:

"Good to Great" by Jim Collins

"The Innovator’s Dilemma" by Clayton Christensen

Similar NSE episodes:

Malcolm Gladwell: Becoming Malcolm

Charlie Strobel: Remembering a Life Well Lived

Musa al-Gharbi: We Have Never Been Woke

James Lawson: The Architect of the United States Civil Rights Movement

"Zero at the Bone" by Christian Wiman

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179: Unabridged Interview: Christian Wiman Oct 29, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Christian Wiman.

“Suffering, I think, catalyzes an intimacy that couldn't happen otherwise.”

Christian Wiman, renowned poet and teacher at Yale Divinity School, does not say these words flippantly. Two decades ago, he was diagnosed with a rare form of cancer and given a life expectancy of five years. He has lived the past twenty years in the shadow of death and the grip of despair.

In this episode, while discussing his recent memoir “Zero at the Bone: Fifty Entries Against Despair,” Christian explores faith, doubt, joy, and sorrow in the way only a great poet can, taking the stuff of life - the mundane, confusing, chaotic, and tragic - and making meaning out of it.

Show Notes

Resources mentioned this episode:

"My Bright Abyss" by Christian Wiman

Similar NSE episodes:

Christian Wiman: The Opposite of Faith is Certainty

Pádraig Ó Tuama: A Poet’s Work in Peace and Reconciliation

Clay Hobbs: The Wisdom of Numbering Your Days

Angela Williams Gorrell and Miroslav Volf: On Joy and Sorrow

"Zero at the Bone" by Christian Wiman

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179: Christian Wiman: Poetry Against Despair Oct 24, 2024

“Suffering, I think, catalyzes an intimacy that couldn't happen otherwise.”

Christian Wiman, renowned poet and teacher at Yale Divinity School, does not say these words flippantly. Two decades ago, he was diagnosed with a rare form of cancer and given a life expectancy of five years. He has lived the past twenty years in the shadow of death and the grip of despair.

In this episode, while discussing his recent memoir “Zero at the Bone: Fifty Entries Against Despair,” Christian explores faith, doubt, joy, and sorrow in the way only a great poet can, taking the stuff of life - the mundane, confusing, chaotic, and tragic - and making meaning out of it.

Show Notes

Resources mentioned this episode:

"My Bright Abyss" by Christian Wiman

Similar NSE episodes:

Christian Wiman: The Opposite of Faith is Certainty

Pádraig Ó Tuama: A Poet’s Work in Peace and Reconciliation

Clay Hobbs: The Wisdom of Numbering Your Days

Angela Williams Gorrell and Miroslav Volf: On Joy and Sorrow

"The After Party: Toward Better Christian Politics"

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178: Unabridged Interview: Russell Moore and David French Oct 22, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Russell Moore and David French.

For the last decade of American political discourse, both the Left and the Right have each been developing fierce tribalism, in which it is increasingly costly for one to wage critique at one’s own group. Threats of canceling, doxing, and worse are everyday occurrences for those who speak out of step with their party.

Russell Moore and David French have been in the dangerous business of insider critique for a while. As conservative Christians, their criticism of the Right (specifically of Donald Trump) has cost them friends, careers, and safety.

In this episode, they discuss why they continue to do the work they do, offering insight on the landscape of politics and religion, and how we might re-frame the way we do discourse.

Show Notes

Resources mentioned this episode:

The After Party

Similar NSE episodes:

Tim Alberta: The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory

Kristin Du Mez Sits with David French

David French: Conservatism Without Trumpism

Russell Moore: Against, and For, the Tribe

"The After Party: Toward Better Christian Politics"

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178: Russell Moore and David French: How Should Christians Do Politics? Oct 17, 2024

For the last decade of American political discourse, both the Left and the Right have each been developing fierce tribalism, in which it is increasingly costly for one to wage critique at one’s own group. Threats of canceling, doxing, and worse are everyday occurrences for those who speak out of step with their party.

Russell Moore and David French have been in the dangerous business of insider critique for a while. As conservative Christians, their criticism of the Right (specifically of Donald Trump) has cost them friends, careers, and safety.

In this episode, they discuss why they continue to do the work they do, offering insight on the landscape of politics and religion, and how we might re-frame the way we do discourse.

Show Notes

Resources mentioned this episode:

The After Party

Similar NSE episodes:

Tim Alberta: The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory

Kristin Du Mez Sits with David French

David French: Conservatism Without Trumpism

Russell Moore: Against, and For, the Tribe

"We Have Never Been Woke" by Musa al-Gharbi

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177: Unabridged Interview: Musa al-Gharbi Oct 15, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Musa al-Gharbi.

Society has never been more focused on equality and diversity… right?

The last few decades have been marked by a drastic increase in what often gets labeled “social justice.” Companies and individuals perpetually take very public vows to defend progressive values and denounce all kinds of injustice. But somehow, in spite of all this, social and economic inequalities have only worsened. How is this possible?

“The fundamental tension,” argues Musa al-Gharbi, “is that while a lot of us are committed to social justice, we also really want to be elites.” Musa makes the case that an excess of public symbolic gestures has created a backwards world where justice is preached but rarely done, offering a sharp critique of the ways many of us, on all sides of politics and culture, have used social justice as a subtle way to serve ourselves.

Show Notes

Resources:

Similar NSE episodes:

Eboo Patel: Field Notes for Diverse Democracy

Patrick Deneen: Why Liberalism Failed

Ben Cohen and Jay Jakub: Ben and Jerry’s and a Better Capitalism

Christian Miller: We’re Not as Good (or Bad) as We Think We Are

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177: Musa al-Gharbi: We Have Never Been Woke Oct 10, 2024

Society has never been more focused on equality and diversity… right?

The last few decades have been marked by a drastic increase in what often gets labeled “social justice.” Companies and individuals perpetually take very public vows to defend progressive values and denounce all kinds of injustice. But somehow, in spite of all this, social and economic inequalities have only worsened. How is this possible?

“The fundamental tension,” argues Musa al-Gharbi, “is that while a lot of us are committed to social justice, we also really want to be elites.” Musa makes the case that an excess of public symbolic gestures has created a backwards world where justice is preached but rarely done, offering a sharp critique of the ways many of us, on all sides of politics and culture, have used social justice as a subtle way to serve ourselves.

Show Notes

Resources mentioned:

"We Have Never Been Woke" by Musa al-Gharbi

Similar NSE episodes:

Eboo Patel: Field Notes for Diverse Democracy

Patrick Deneen: Why Liberalism Failed

Ben Cohen and Jay Jakub: Ben and Jerry’s and a Better Capitalism

Christian Miller: We’re Not as Good (or Bad) as We Think We Are

"Assembling Tomorrow" by Carissa Carter and Scott Doorley

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176: Unabridged Interview: Carissa Carter and Scott Doorley Oct 08, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Carissa Carter & Scott Doorley.

We live in an era of runaway design, where tech that seemed to solve our problems has gone on to cause unintended consequences. Think about social media’s effect on our collective mental health. Or the once miraculous material known as plastic becoming an environmental hazard. But we can’t predict the future, so what can we do?

In this episode, designers from Stanford’s d.school, Carissa Carter & Scott Doorley, discuss their book “Assembling Tomorrow,” which thinks uniquely about design and offers ideas and practices for building and engaging with technology in a way that helps us flourish.

Show Notes

Resources:

"The Technological Society" by Jacques Ellul

Similar NSE episodes:

Anna Lembke and John Mark Comer: The Price of the Pursuit of Pleasure

Meghan O’Gieblyn: Will AI Destroy Humanity?

David Brooks: Can We Save Society by Knowing Each Other?

"Assembling Tomorrow" by Carissa Carter and Scott Doorley

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176: Carissa Carter and Scott Doorley: Assembling Tomorrow Oct 03, 2024

We live in an era of runaway design, where tech that once seemed to solve all of our problems has gone on to cause unintended consequences. Think about social media’s effect on our collective mental health. Or the once miraculous material known as plastic becoming an environmental hazard. But we can’t predict the future, so what can we do?

In this episode, designers from Stanford’s d.school, Carissa Carter and Scott Doorley, discuss their book “Assembling Tomorrow,” which thinks quite uniquely about design and offers ideas and practices for building and engaging with technology in a way that helps us flourish.

Show Notes

Resources mentioned this episode:

"The Technological Society" by Jacques Ellul

Similar No Small Endeavor episodes:

Anna Lembke and John Mark Comer: The Price of the Pursuit of Pleasure

Meghan O’Gieblyn: Will AI Destroy Humanity?

David Brooks: Can We Save Society by Knowing Each Other?

"Cherished Belonging" by Greg Boyle

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175: Unabridged Interview: Greg Boyle Oct 01, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Greg Boyle.

How do you become truly loving? Father Greg Boyle teaches us to go to the margins. “You don't go to the margins to make a difference. You go so the folks at the margins make you different.”

In the 80s and 90s, the city of Los Angeles was ravaged by what is now known as the "decade of death," a period of unprecedented gang violence, peaking at 1000 killings in 1992 alone. It was in the midst of this that Greg Boyle became pastor of the poorest Catholic parish in the city, in order to live and work amongst gang members.

He started Homeboy Industries, now the largest gang-member rehabilitation program in the world. In this episode, he tells some breathtaking stories, offering wisdom from a life lived in community with those who society neglects.

Notes

Resources:

"Tattoos on the Heart" by Greg Boyle

"Barking to the Choir" by Greg Boyle

Homeboy Industries

Similar NSE episodes:

John Dear: Taking the Beatitudes Seriously

Curt Thompson: The Power of Being Known

Pádraig Ó Tuama: The Facts of Life

Transcript

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175: Greg Boyle: Cherished Belonging (Best of NSE) Sep 26, 2024

How do you become truly loving? Father Greg Boyle teaches us to go to the margins. “You don't go to the margins to make a difference. You go so the folks at the margins make you different.”

In the 80s and 90s, the city of Los Angeles was ravaged by what is now known as the "decade of death," a period of unprecedented gang violence, peaking at 1000 killings in 1992 alone. It was in the midst of this that Greg Boyle became pastor of the poorest Catholic parish in the city, in order to live and work amongst gang members.

He started Homeboy Industries, now the largest gang-member rehabilitation program in the world. In this episode, he tells some breathtaking stories, offering wisdom from a life lived in community with those who society neglects.

Show Notes

Resources mentioned this episode:

"Cherished Belonging" by Greg Boyle

"Tattoos on the Heart" by Greg Boyle

"Barking to the Choir" by Greg Boyle

Homeboy Industries

Similar No Small Endeavor episodes:

John Dear: Taking the Beatitudes Seriously

Curt Thompson: The Power of Being Known

Pádraig Ó Tuama: The Facts of Life

'God, Human, Animal, Machine' by Meghan O’Gieblyn

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174: Unabridged Interview: Meghan O’Gieblyn Sep 24, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Meghan O’Gieblyn.

Are robots going to destroy humanity?

Thanks to the rise and implementation of Artificial Intelligence (AI), the common sci-fi trope of a machine-perpetuated apocalypse has taken on a new gravity in recent days. But is Chat GPT really going to rebel against humans, or even change things very much at all?

“We're at the point where we do have technologies that are incredibly powerful,” says writer and commentator Meghan O’Gieblyn. “They're able to do things that they weren't programmed to do.”

In this episode, Meghan discusses AI in great detail, and lays out what she believes to be the social, political, ethical, and even theological issues at stake as humanity learns to live with new technology.

Show Notes

Resources:

Meghan’s Website

Similar NSE Episodes:

The Price of the Pursuit of Pleasure: Anna Lembke

The Most Polarized Issue in the United States: Katharine Hayhoe

Beyond Fake News: Justin McBrayer

'God, Human, Animal, Machine' by Meghan O’Gieblyn

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174: Meghan O’Gieblyn: Will AI Destroy Humanity? (Best of NSE) Sep 19, 2024

Are robots going to destroy humanity?

Thanks to the rise and implementation of Artificial Intelligence (AI), the common sci-fi trope of a machine-perpetuated apocalypse has taken on a new gravity in recent days. But is Chat GPT really going to rebel against humans, or even change things very much at all?

“We're at the point where we do have technologies that are incredibly powerful,” says writer and commentator Meghan O’Gieblyn. “They're able to do things that they weren't programmed to do.”

In this episode, Meghan discusses AI in great detail, and lays out what she believes to be the social, political, ethical, and even theological issues at stake as humanity learns to live with new technology.

Show Notes

Resources mentioned this episode:

Meghan’s Website

Similar No Small Endeavor episodes:

The Price of the Pursuit of Pleasure: Anna Lembke

The Most Polarized Issue in the United States: Katharine Hayhoe

Beyond Fake News: Justin McBrayer

"What If We Get It Right" by Ayana Elizabeth Johnson

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Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

173: Unabridged Interview: Ayana Elizabeth Johnson Sep 17, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Ayana Elizabeth Johnson.

How can you respond to climate change with joy?

Those two words—climate change—can fill us with a sense of dread, anxiety, and doom. Those advocating action are often fueled by a sense of breakneck urgency. But for many, such an outlook isn’t motivating. It’s paralyzing. But what if there was another way filled with joy and satisfaction?

“This is the work of our lifetime,” says Ayana Elizabeth Johnson, “so why don't we find ways to make it delightful?” In this episode, she explains why the climate crisis is no less dire than the news makes it seem, but why climate activism must be done with hope and joy to be sustainable.

Show Notes

Resources mentioned this episode:

GetItRight.Earth

Similar No Small Endeavor episodes:

Debra Reinstra: Healing the Earth

Bill McKibben: The Flag, the Cross, and the Station Wagon

Katharine Hayhoe: The Most Polarized Issue in the United States

"What If We Get It Right" by Ayana Elizabeth Johnson

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173: Ayana Elizabeth Johnson: What If We Get Climate Action Right? Sep 12, 2024

How can you respond to climate change with joy?

Those two words—climate change—can fill us with a sense of dread, anxiety, and doom. Those advocating action are often fueled by a sense of breakneck urgency. But for many, such an outlook isn’t motivating. It’s paralyzing. But what if there was another way filled with joy and satisfaction?

“This is the work of our lifetime,” says Ayana Elizabeth Johnson, “so why don't we find ways to make it delightful?” In this episode, she explains why the climate crisis is no less dire than the news makes it seem, but why climate activism must be done with hope and joy to be sustainable.

Show Notes

Resources mentioned this episode:

GetItRight.Earth

Similar No Small Endeavor episodes:

Debra Reinstra: Healing the Earth

Bill McKibben: The Flag, the Cross, and the Station Wagon

Katharine Hayhoe: The Most Polarized Issue in the United States

Aristotle’s Way by Edith Hall

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172: Unabridged Interview: Edith Hall Sep 10, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Edith Hall.

What if you’re wrong about what it means to be happy?

In spite of unprecedented access to things that give pleasure - buy this pill, eat this food, go on this trip - mental health issues are increasing globally at an astonishing rate. It’s clear that the modern idea of happiness is lacking something.

In this episode, Edith Hall offers an ancient definition of happiness from Aristotle that might just be the solution to our crisis of despair. “It’s a way of life, it's not a psychological state,” she says. “To live well…submit yourself to your own best self, and don't let transient temptations derail you.”

Show Notes:

Resources mentioned this episode:

Similar No Small Endeavor episodes:

Jeffrey Rosen: The Pursuit of Happiness

Meghan Sullivan: What It Takes to Live a Good Life

Gretchen Rubin: The Happiness Project

Rebecca DeYoung: The Seven Deadly Sins

Dacher Keltner: How Awe Will Transform Your Life

Aristotle’s Way by Edith Hall

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172: Edith Hall: How Ancient Wisdom can Change Your Life (Best of NSE) Sep 05, 2024

What if you’re wrong about what it means to be happy?

In spite of unprecedented access to things that give pleasure - buy this pill, eat this food, go on this trip - mental health issues are increasing globally at an astonishing rate. It’s clear that the modern idea of happiness is lacking something.

In this episode, Edith Hall offers an ancient definition of happiness from Aristotle that might just be the solution to our crisis of despair. “It’s a way of life, it's not a psychological state,” she says. “To live well…submit yourself to your own best self, and don't let transient temptations derail you.”

Show Notes:

Resources mentioned this episode:

Similar No Small Endeavor episodes:

Jeffrey Rosen: The Pursuit of Happiness

Meghan Sullivan: What It Takes to Live a Good Life

Gretchen Rubin: The Happiness Project

Rebecca DeYoung: The Seven Deadly Sins

Dacher Keltner: How Awe Will Transform Your Life

"Free Cyntoia" by Cyntoia Brown Long

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171: Unabridged Interview: Cyntoia Brown Long Sep 03, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Cyntoia Brown Long.

On August 7th, 2019, Cyntoia Brown Long was released from the Tennessee Prison for Women.

It was 13 years after she had been sentenced to life without parole for the murder of a man to whom she had been sex-trafficked.

In this special episode, Cyntoia tells an uncensored account of the great personal and systemic brokenness which led to her imprisonment, and the dramatic, at times hard-to-believe nature of the grace and providence which brought her to faith and ultimate release.

Please be advised this episode contains details upsetting to some listeners, including references to sexual assault and trafficking. Additional resources are available at NO MORE.

Show Notes

Resources mentioned:

The JFAM Foundation

Similar NSE episodes:

Emi Nietfeld: Acceptance

Anthony Ray Hinton: An Innocent Man on Death Row

Greg Boyle: Homeboys, Delight, Gladness

Bill Haslam: Humility and the Art of Politics

"Free Cyntoia" by Cyntoia Brown Long

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171: Cyntoia Brown Long: Free Cyntoia (Best of NSE) Aug 29, 2024

On August 7th, 2019, Cyntoia Brown Long was released from the Tennessee Prison for Women.

It was 13 years after she had been sentenced to life without parole for the murder of a man to whom she had been sex-trafficked.

In this special episode, Cyntoia tells an uncensored account of the great personal and systemic brokenness which led to her imprisonment, and the dramatic, at times hard-to-believe nature of the grace and providence which brought her to faith and ultimate release.

Please be advised this episode contains details upsetting to some listeners, including references to sexual assault and trafficking. Additional resources are available at NO MORE.

Show Notes

Resources mentioned:

The JFAM Foundation

Similar NSE episodes:

Emi Nietfeld: Acceptance

Anthony Ray Hinton: An Innocent Man on Death Row

Greg Boyle: Homeboys, Delight, Gladness

Bill Haslam: Humility and the Art of Politics

Tuskegee Syphilis Study

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170: Unabridged Interview: Quincy Byrdsong Aug 27, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Quincy Byrdsong.

How are the world’s poor and oppressed affected by inequity in healthcare systems?

In the United States, “health inequity started with slavery,” says Dr. Quincy Byrdsong, himself a longtime healthcare professional. Since slavery was abolished, health inequities have not gone away, but have become more complex and subtle.

In this episode, Dr. Byrdsong discusses how such cases as the infamous Tuskegee syphilis trials have allowed racism and classism to persist in healthcare systems, and what might be done in response to such injustice.

Show Notes

Resources mentioned this episode:

Similar No Small Endeavor episodes:

Andre Churchwell: Diversity, Virtue, Healthcare

Willie James Jennings: The Christian Imagination

Tuskegee Syphilis Study

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170: Quincy Byrdsong: Tuskegee, Healthcare, Justice (Best of NSE) Aug 22, 2024

How are the world’s poor and oppressed affected by inequity in healthcare systems?

In the United States, “health inequity started with slavery,” says Dr. Quincy Byrdsong, himself a longtime healthcare professional. Since slavery was abolished, health inequities have not gone away, but have become more complex and subtle.

In this episode, Dr. Byrdsong discusses how such cases as the infamous Tuskegee syphilis trials have allowed racism and classism to persist in healthcare systems, and what might be done in response to such injustice.

Show Notes

Resources mentioned this episode:

Similar No Small Endeavor episodes:

Andre Churchwell: Diversity, Virtue, Healthcare

Willie James Jennings: The Christian Imagination

"Mississippi Burning" (1988)

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169: Unabridged Interview: Jerry Mitchell: Murder, Race, and Faith Aug 20, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Jerry Mitchell.

In the 1990s, investigative journalist Jerry Mitchell started working on a handful of closed murder cases from the Civil Rights Era which he believed were never brought to justice. Since then, Jerry’s work has led to 24 convictions in Civil Rights murder cases.

In this episode, he tells some of the most jaw-dropping stories from his life’s work, from the discovery of sealed spy records which reveal government involvement in racial murder, to interviews with klansmen who made threats on his life.

“Them trying to threaten me really made me more determined to do it than ever,” he says. “A life of fear is not worth living.”

Show Notes

Resources mentioned this episode:

"Race Against Time: A Reporter Reopens the Unsolved Murder Cases of the Civil Rights Era"

Similar No Small Endeavor episodes:

Dr. Fred Gray: Doing Justice Alongside MLK and Rosa Parks

Eddie Glaude: On James Baldwin’s America

Robert Jones: White Too Long

"Mississippi Burning" (1988)

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169: Jerry Mitchell: Murder, Race, and Faith (Best of NSE) Aug 15, 2024

In the 1990s, investigative journalist Jerry Mitchell started working on a handful of closed murder cases from the Civil Rights Era which he believed were never brought to justice. Since then, Jerry’s work has led to 24 convictions in Civil Rights murder cases.

In this episode, he tells some of the most jaw-dropping stories from his life’s work, from the discovery of sealed spy records which reveal government involvement in racial murder, to interviews with klansmen who made threats on his life.

“Them trying to threaten me really made me more determined to do it than ever,” he says. “A life of fear is not worth living.”

Show Notes

Resources mentioned this episode:

"Race Against Time: A Reporter Reopens the Unsolved Murder Cases of the Civil Rights Era"

Similar No Small Endeavor episodes:

Dr. Fred Gray: Doing Justice Alongside MLK and Rosa Parks

Eddie Glaude: On James Baldwin’s America

Robert Jones: White Too Long

On Death And Dying - Elisabeth Kübler-Ross

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168: Unabridged Interview: Clay Hobbs Aug 13, 2024

This is our unabridged episode with Clay Hobbs.

What if you knew you had one year left to live? With just 365 days left on earth, how would you spend them?

After a terminal cancer diagnosis, host Lee C. Camp’s friend Clay Hobbs was faced with this exact question. Doctors estimated he would die before the year was out, and Clay took them literally. He chose a date, marked it on a calendar, and began planning accordingly.

In today’s intimate episode, Lee shares several conversations with Clay in the last year of his life. The friends discuss coming to terms with a terminal diagnosis, saying goodbye, and how the practice of facing death may help us all lead more intentional lives.

Show Notes

Resources mentioned this episode:

Rapt: Attention and the Focused Life - Winifred Gallagher

Similar No Small Endeavor episodes:

Oliver Burkeman: Time Management for Mortals

Burying 250 Friends: Greg Boyle on Community Amidst Gang Violence

The Opposite of Faith is Certainty: Christian Wiman

Dacher Keltner: How Awe Will Transform Your Life

On Death And Dying - Elisabeth Kübler-Ross

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168: Clay Hobbs: The Wisdom of Numbering Your Days Aug 08, 2024

What if you knew you had one year left to live? With just 365 days left on earth, how would you spend them?

After a terminal cancer diagnosis, host Lee C. Camp’s friend Clay Hobbs was faced with this exact question. Doctors estimated he would die before the year was out, and Clay took them literally. He chose a date, marked it on a calendar, and began planning accordingly.

In today’s intimate episode, Lee shares several conversations with Clay in the last year of his life. The friends discuss coming to terms with a terminal diagnosis, saying goodbye, and how the practice of facing death may help us all lead more intentional lives.

Show Notes

Resources mentioned this episode:

Rapt: Attention and the Focused Life - Winifred Gallagher

Similar No Small Endeavor episodes:

Oliver Burkeman: Time Management for Mortals

Burying 250 Friends: Greg Boyle on Community Amidst Gang Violence

The Opposite of Faith is Certainty: Christian Wiman

Dacher Keltner: How Awe Will Transform Your Life

Peak Mind by Amishi Jha

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167: Unabridged Interview: Amishi Jha Aug 06, 2024

Our guest today says that for 50% of our lives, we are not paying attention to what we’re doing.

In today’s fast-paced, technology-driven world, many of us are coming to terms with the fact that our capacity for paying attention is laughably weak. Our work, mental health, and relationships suffer because of it. But what if there was a tried-and-true way to change this, something like “push-ups for your brain?”

Neuroscientist Amishi Jha has dedicated her career to studying this question, and the results are in. In this episode, she describes the practice of mindfulness meditation - why it can work for everyone (not just the spiritual folks), and how it only takes 12 minutes each day to reach one’s “Peak Mind.”

Show Notes

Resources mentioned this episode:

Similar No Small Endeavor episodes:

Naomi Shihab Nye: The Life Changing Benefits of Paying Attention

Charles Duhigg: The Power of Habit

Kristin Neff: The Power of Self-Compassion

Dacher Keltner: How Awe Will Transform Your Life

Peak Mind by Amishi Jha

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167: Amishi Jha: Push-ups for Your Brain Aug 01, 2024

Our guest today says that for 50% of our lives, we are not paying attention to what we’re doing.

In today’s fast-paced, technology-driven world, many of us are coming to terms with the fact that our capacity for paying attention is laughably weak. Our work, mental health, and relationships suffer because of it. But what if there was a tried-and-true way to change this, something like “push-ups for your brain?”

Neuroscientist Amishi Jha has dedicated her career to studying this question, and the results are in. In this episode, she describes the practice of mindfulness meditation - why it can work for everyone (not just the spiritual folks), and how it only takes 12 minutes each day to reach one’s “Peak Mind.”

Show Notes

Resources mentioned this episode:

Similar No Small Endeavor episodes:

Naomi Shihab Nye: The Life Changing Benefits of Paying Attention

Charles Duhigg: The Power of Habit

Kristin Neff: The Power of Self-Compassion

Dacher Keltner: How Awe Will Transform Your Life

Judaism Is About Love by Shai Held

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166: Unabridged Interview: Shai Held Jul 30, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Rabbi Shai Held.

“I think part of what it means to live in an honest way with a religious tradition is to live with its ragged edges.”

It’s not unusual to assume that one of religion's prime functions is to give us answers. But what if some of life’s hardest questions weren’t meant to be answered, but rather perpetually asked?

In this episode, Rabbi Shai Held, author of the book, "Judaism is About Love: Recovering the Heart of Jewish Life,” exemplifies this possibility, engaging the messiness and joy of life with honest grappling. He argues that some Jews have internalized traditional anti-Jewish bias and he seeks to help recover what has been lost. He shows that love and grace are at the center of a good life.

Show Notes

Resources mentioned this episode:

Similar No Small Endeavor episodes:

Miroslav Volf: A Theology of Joy

Pete Enns and Jared Byas: The Bible for Normal People

Judaism Is About Love by Shai Held

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166: Shai Held: Judaism Is About Love Jul 25, 2024

“I think part of what it means to live in an honest way with a religious tradition is to live with its ragged edges.”

It’s not unusual to assume that one of religion's prime functions is to give us answers. But what if some of life’s hardest questions weren’t meant to be answered, but rather perpetually asked?

In this episode, Rabbi Shai Held, author of the book, "Judaism is About Love: Recovering the Heart of Jewish Life,” exemplifies this possibility, engaging the messiness and joy of life with honest grappling. He argues that some Jews have internalized traditional anti-Jewish bias and he seeks to help recover what has been lost. He shows that love and grace are at the center of a good life.

Show Notes

Resources mentioned this episode:

Similar No Small Endeavor episodes:

Miroslav Volf: A Theology of Joy

Pete Enns and Jared Byas: The Bible for Normal People

The Sin of Certainty by Pete Enns

Episode Transcript

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165: Unabridged Interview: Peter Enns and Jared Byas Jul 23, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Pete Enns and Jared Byas.

“It was our curiosity about the Bible that is now leading to conclusions that are no longer welcome in these institutions.”
Pete Enns and Jared Byas host The Bible for Normal People, a podcast which is loved by some, lambasted by others. They started it as a way to have honest conversations about the Bible, for folks both religious and non-religious -- conversations that cost them both previous jobs at religious institutions.
In this episode, they discuss the complexity of the Bible, and what their work has taught them about courage, curiosity, humility, and the dangers of certainty.

Show Notes

Resources mentioned this episode:

How the Bible Actually Works by Pete Enns

Love Matters More by Jared Byas

The Bible for Normal People

Similar No Small Endeavor episodes:

N.T. Wright and the Bancroft Brothers: Theology and Poetry

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165: Pete Enns and Jared Byas: The Bible for Normal People Jul 18, 2024

“It was our curiosity about the Bible that is now leading to conclusions that are no longer welcome in these institutions.”
Pete Enns and Jared Byas host The Bible for Normal People, a podcast which is loved by some, lambasted by others. They started it as a way to have honest conversations about the Bible, for folks both religious and non-religious -- conversations that cost them both previous jobs at religious institutions.
In this episode, they discuss the complexity of the Bible, and what their work has taught them about courage, curiosity, humility, and the dangers of certainty.

Show Notes

Resources mentioned this episode:

The Sin of Certainty by Pete Enns

How the Bible Actually Works by Pete Enns

Love Matters More by Jared Byas

The Bible for Normal People

Similar No Small Endeavor episodes:

N.T. Wright and the Bancroft Brothers: Theology and Poetry

JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows

See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy

Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

164: Unabridged Interview: Stanley Hauerwas (Part I) Jul 16, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Stanley Hauerwas (Part I).

“This is my life. I want no other.”

Time Magazine has recognized Stanley Hauerwas as the best theologian in America. But you don’t get that title by making everybody happy. Stanley's enigmatic personality is loved by some, lambasted by others. His dogged pacifism is laced with profanity. He’s a stereotypical Texan, but is a vocal opponent of gun ownership. Many think him to be a liberal, but he disavows liberalism. Others call him conservative, but his extreme dislike for evangelicalism and war-making dispute that claim.

Wherever you're coming from, you're in for a disarmingly candid episode on one man's life in his own words, a life spent relentlessly seeking the nature of a good life.

Show Notes:

Resources mentioned this episode

Hannah’s Child by Stanley Hauerwas

John Dear NSE Interview

Hannah’s Child by Stanley Hauerwas

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164: Unabridged Interview: Stanley Hauerwas (Part II) Jul 16, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Stanley Hauerwas (Part II).

“This is my life. I want no other.”

Time Magazine has recognized Stanley Hauerwas as the best theologian in America. But you don’t get that title by making everybody happy. Stanley's enigmatic personality is loved by some, lambasted by others. His dogged pacifism is laced with profanity. He’s a stereotypical Texan, but is a vocal opponent of gun ownership. Many think him to be a liberal, but he disavows liberalism. Others call him conservative, but his extreme dislike for evangelicalism and war-making dispute that claim.

Wherever you're coming from, you're in for a disarmingly candid episode on one man's life in his own words, a life spent relentlessly seeking the nature of a good life.

Show Notes:

Resources mentioned this episode

John Dear NSE Interview

Hannah’s Child by Stanley Hauerwas

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Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

164: Stanley Hauerwas: "America's Best Theologian" Jul 11, 2024

“This is my life. I want no other.”

Time Magazine has recognized Stanley Hauerwas as the best theologian in America. But you don’t get that title by making everybody happy. Stanley's enigmatic personality is loved by some, lambasted by others. His dogged pacifism is laced with profanity. He’s a stereotypical Texan, but is a vocal opponent of gun ownership. Many think him to be a liberal, but he disavows liberalism. Others call him conservative, but his extreme dislike for evangelicalism and war-making dispute that claim.

Wherever you're coming from, you're in for a disarmingly candid episode on one man's life in his own words, a life spent relentlessly seeking the nature of a good life.

Show Notes:

Resources mentioned this episode

John Dear NSE Interview

The Pursuit of Happiness by Jeffrey Rosen

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Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

163: Unabridged Interview: Jeffrey Rosen Jul 09, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Jeffrey Rosen.

“In many ways, we're living in the founders’ nightmare,” says Jeffrey Rosen, president of the National Constitution Center. “All of the founders thought that we could not govern ourselves as a democracy unless we first achieved self-government as individuals.”

For Independence Day, Rosen shares how the "pursuit of happiness" mentioned in the Declaration of Independence is defined differently than our contemporary notion of the word. It includes a life in pursuit of self-mastery as what would ensure our individual and collective flourishing. Jeffrey also discusses the goods of stoic philosophy and touts the practice of deep reading as a potential antidote to civic issues the U.S. is facing currently.

Show Notes:

Resources mentioned this episode

We The People Podcast

The Pursuit of Happiness by Jeffrey Rosen

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163: Jeffrey Rosen: The Pursuit of Happiness Jul 04, 2024

“In many ways, we're living in the founders’ nightmare,” says Jeffrey Rosen, president of the National Constitution Center. “All of the founders thought that we could not govern ourselves as a democracy unless we first achieved self-government as individuals.”

For Independence Day, Rosen shares how the "pursuit of happiness" mentioned in the Declaration of Independence is defined differently than our contemporary notion of the word. It includes a life in pursuit of self-mastery as what would ensure our individual and collective flourishing. Jeffrey also discusses the goods of stoic philosophy and touts the practice of deep reading as a potential antidote to civic issues the U.S. is facing currently.

Show Notes:

Resources mentioned this episode

We The People Podcast

National Sexual Violence Resource Center

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Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

162: Unabridged Interview: Emi Nietfeld Jul 02, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Emi Nietfeld.

“When I was 13, I went to the psych ward for the first time,” recalls Emi Nietfeld.

After a childhood spent in manipulative therapy, institutional facilities, foster care, and even times of homelessness, Emi got into Harvard, and then went on to get a great job at Google. This is the classic American rags-to-riches story, of someone overcoming misery to find success and happiness, right?

Not exactly. “Those perfect human interest stories are fictions,” she says. “We really do expect people to be perfect in a way that I knew I was not.” In this episode, the nuance of learning to accept one’s pain, and yet refusing to stand for it.

** Please be advised that this episode contains details that may be upsetting to some listeners including references to suicide, sexual assault, and disordered eating. **

Additional resources are available at:

SAMHSA

National Alliance for Eating Disorders

Show Notes

Resources mentioned this episode:

Acceptance by Emi Nietfeld

Quote from James Baldwin “Notes of a Native Son”

National Sexual Violence Resource Center

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162: Emi Nietfeld: Acceptance Jun 27, 2024

“When I was 13, I went to the psych ward for the first time,” recalls Emi Nietfeld.

After a childhood spent in manipulative therapy, institutional facilities, foster care, and even times of homelessness, Emi got into Harvard, and then went on to get a great job at Google. This is the classic American rags-to-riches story, of someone overcoming misery to find success and happiness, right?

Not exactly. “Those perfect human interest stories are fictions,” she says. “We really do expect people to be perfect in a way that I knew I was not.” In this episode, the nuance of learning to accept one’s pain, and yet refusing to stand for it.

** Please be advised that this episode contains details that may be upsetting to some listeners including references to suicide, sexual assault, and disordered eating. **

Additional resources are available at:

SAMHSA

National Alliance for Eating Disorders

Show Notes

Resources mentioned this episode:

Acceptance by Emi Nietfeld

Quote from James Baldwin “Notes of a Native Son”

The Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg

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Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

161: Unabridged Interview: Charles Duhigg Jun 25, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Charles Duhigg.

How do you form a good habit? How do you change a destructive one?

“It's up to us to decide which…habits that we wish to embrace,” says Charles Duhigg, author of the longtime bestseller "The Power of Habit." In this episode, he explains how to tackle new and old habits in an empowering way.

Plus, Duhigg discusses his new book "Supercommunicators," in which he shares how to understand the type of conversation you're having with someone and how to show them your listening—hint, it’s not with your body language.

Show Notes:

Resources mentioned this episode

Supercommunicators by Charles Duhigg

The Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg

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Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

161: Charles Duhigg: The Power of Habit Jun 20, 2024

How do you form a good habit? How do you change a destructive one?

“It's up to us to decide which…habits that we wish to embrace,” says Charles Duhigg, author of the longtime bestseller "The Power of Habit." In this episode, he explains how to tackle new and old habits in an empowering way.

Plus, Duhigg discusses his new book "Supercommunicators," in which he shares how to understand the type of conversation you're having with someone and how to show them your listening—hint, it’s not with your body language.

Show Notes:

Resources mentioned this episode

Supercommunicators by Charles Duhigg

James Lawson Full Interview

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160: Unabridged Interview: Rev. James Lawson Jun 18, 2024

“We started the public desegregation of the nation,” says Reverend James Lawson, “and we did it without hating anybody.”

In this episode, the man who Martin Luther King Jr. called friend, mentor, and the very conscience and architect of the Civil Rights Movement, Reverend James Lawson, discusses the United States’ past and present, and what it took to organize a whole population across the country to fight back without throwing a punch.

This episode is dedicated to the memory of Reverend Lawson, who passed away on June 9th 2024, at the age of 95.

Show Notes:

Resources mentioned this episode

Transcript for Juneteenth Special Episode

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160: Juneteenth Special: Fred Gray, James Lawson, and Willie James Jennings Jun 13, 2024

Juneteenth celebrates the day that the final enforcement of the Emancipation Proclamation was given in Texas, officially making slavery illegal in the U.S. But what factors led to the worldview that condoned slavery in the first place, and how might those factors still be affecting the country today?

Martin Luther King Jr.’s attorney Fred Gray discusses his work against segregation in the South, particularly in the Montgomery Bus Boycott. Yale professor Willie James Jennings describes the religious and cultural origins of racism. And James Lawson, considered by many as one of the architects of the civil rights movement, explains how he and other leaders came to believe that the only way to effectively desegregate the nation was through non-violent protest.

Show Notes:

Resources mentioned this episode

James Lawson Full Interview

Fred Gray Full Interview

Willie James Jennings Full Interview

The Christian Imagination by Willie James Jennings

Bus Ride to Justice by Fred Gray

PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes - Willie James Jennings

PDF of Lee's Interview Notes - James Lawson

More Than I Imagined by John Blake

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159: Unabridged Interview: John Blake Jun 11, 2024

What has the power to change our minds about the world? In John Blake’s case, it was a surprise encounter.

“I knew I had a white mother,” says award-winning journalist John Blake. “Her name is Shirley, and her family hates black people… that's all I knew.”

At age 17, John Blake’s father casually asked him if he’d like to meet his mother for the first time. Three days later, he found himself in the waiting room of a hospital. “The meeting is nothing that I expected,” he recalls. “It's incredibly shocking.”

Today, Blake tells the story of his childhood, born in the sixties as the son of an interracial couple in Baltimore. His story sheds light on the history of racial prejudice in the United States, and offers wisdom about the ways in which we might find hope and healing in the midst of all kinds of struggle and hostility.

Show Notes:

Resources mentioned this episode

More Than I Imagined by John Blake

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159: John Blake: More Than I Imagined Jun 06, 2024

John Blake’s father was Black. The mother he never knew was white. The two met in Baltimore in the 60’s when interracial marriage was illegal.

“I knew I had a white mother,” says the award-winning journalist. “Her name is Shirley, and her family hates black people… that's all I knew.”

At age 17, John Blake’s father casually asked him if he’d like to meet his mother for the first time. Three days later, he found himself in the waiting room of a hospital where he uncovered a long held family secret. “The meeting is nothing that I expected,” he recalls. “It's incredibly shocking.”

Today, Blake tells the story of his childhood shedding light on the history of racial prejudice in the United States. He offers wisdom about the ways in which we might find hope and healing in the midst of all kinds of struggle and hostility.

Show Notes:

Resources mentioned this episode

Everything Comes Next by Naomi Shihab Nye

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158: Unabridged Interview: Naomi Shihab Nye Jun 04, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Naomi Shihab Nye.

What do scientists and poets both agree on?

On this show, we often host guests whose work is in scientific or concrete fields, such as psychology or sociology, which rely on experiments and research to come to helpful conclusions. But such conversations sometimes fall short of the wonder and beauty we experience in everyday life, and for such subjects, we turn to the poets.

In this episode, award-winning poet Naomi Shihab Nye corroborates what researchers have confirmed—the benefits of paying attention. She shares abundant wisdom for living a good life through the lens of poetry. Her work has a quality that the best poetry has, that of paying rapt attention to small moments, making meaning and hope out of everyday wonders.

Show Notes:

Resources mentioned this episode

Everything Comes Next by Naomi Shihab Nye

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158: Naomi Shihab Nye: The Life Changing Benefits of Paying Attention (Best of NSE) May 30, 2024

What do scientists and poets both agree on?

On this show, we often host guests whose work is in scientific or concrete fields, such as psychology or sociology, which rely on experiments and research to come to helpful conclusions. But such conversations sometimes fall short of the wonder and beauty we experience in everyday life, and for such subjects, we turn to the poets.

In this episode, award-winning poet Naomi Shihab Nye corroborates what researchers have confirmed—the benefits of paying attention. She shares abundant wisdom for living a good life through the lens of poetry. Her work has a quality that the best poetry has, that of paying rapt attention to small moments, making meaning and hope out of everyday wonders.

Show Notes:

Resources mentioned this episode

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157: Unabridged Interview: Kristin Neff May 28, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Kristin Neff.

Is high self-esteem crucial to human flourishing, or, rather, a hindrance?

“The biggest problem with self-esteem is that it tends to be contingent,” says Kristin Neff. “We only feel good about ourselves when we succeed.” Far too often, high self-esteem breeds narcissism, bullying, and prejudice.

Kristin is a professor of Educational Psychology at the University of Texas at Austin. She’s also a prominent expert on the topic of self-compassion, which her research has found to be much more effective than self-esteem in helping people flourish. In this episode, she shares what makes self-compassion different from self-esteem, how to cultivate it, and how it can help us to flourish amidst stress, suffering, and everyday life. We also hear briefly from psychiatrist and author Curt Thompson illuminating the negative neurobiological effects of shame while Kristen explains how self compassion can remedy these effects.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes

Alfie Kohn: Why You Shouldn’t Punish–or Reward–Your Kids

Curt Thompson: The Soul of Shame

Resources mentioned this episode

Self-Compassion by Kristin Neff

Fierce Self-Compassion by Kristin Neff

Self-Compassion.org

Why Self-Compassion Works Better than Self-Esteem

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157: Kristin Neff: The Power of Self-Compassion (Best of NSE) May 23, 2024

Is high self-esteem crucial to human flourishing, or, rather, a hindrance?

“The biggest problem with self-esteem is that it tends to be contingent,” says Kristin Neff. “We only feel good about ourselves when we succeed.” Far too often, high self-esteem breeds narcissism, bullying, and prejudice.

Kristin is a professor of Educational Psychology at the University of Texas at Austin. She’s also a prominent expert on the topic of self-compassion, which her research has found to be much more effective than self-esteem in helping people flourish. In this episode, she shares what makes self-compassion different from self-esteem, how to cultivate it, and how it can help us to flourish amidst stress, suffering, and everyday life. We also hear briefly from psychiatrist and author Curt Thompson illuminating the negative neurobiological effects of shame while Kristen explains how self compassion can remedy these effects.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes

Alfie Kohn: Why You Shouldn’t Punish–or Reward–Your Kids

Curt Thompson: The Soul of Shame

Resources mentioned this episode

Self-Compassion by Kristin Neff

Fierce Self-Compassion by Kristin Neff

Self-Compassion.org

Why Self-Compassion Works Better than Self-Esteem

Amy-Jill Levine: Jewish, Yankee Feminist, New Testament Professor

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156: Unabridged Interview: Amy-Jill Levine May 21, 2024

This is our unabridged episode with Amy-Jill Levine.

What happens when you get a self-dubbed “yankee Jewish feminist” talking about Jesus?

Turns out, you get a fascinating conversation leaving folks of all faiths and worldviews with much to think about.

Amy-Jill Levine is a brilliant professor of New Testament, and, perhaps surprisingly, a practicing Jew. In this episode, she uses her knowledge of Jewish culture to highlight common mis-readings of the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus’s stance on societal and gender norms, and how “Christian fragility” can impede one’s ability to address religious and social questions honestly.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes

John Dear: Taking the Beatitudes Seriously

N.T. Wright and the Bancroft Brothers: Theology and Poetry

Jesuitical: How Young Catholics See the World

Resources mentioned this episode

Sermon on the Mount: A Beginners Guide to the Kingdom of Heaven by Amy-Jill Levine

Amy-Jill Levine: Jewish, Yankee Feminist, New Testament Professor

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156: Amy-Jill Levine: A Jewish Take on Jesus (Best of NSE) May 16, 2024

What happens when you get a self-dubbed “yankee Jewish feminist” talking about Jesus?

Turns out, you get a fascinating conversation leaving folks of all faiths and worldviews with much to think about.

Amy-Jill Levine is a brilliant professor of New Testament, and, perhaps surprisingly, a practicing Jew. In this episode, she uses her knowledge of Jewish culture to highlight common mis-readings of the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus’s stance on societal and gender norms, and how “Christian fragility” can impede one’s ability to address religious and social questions honestly.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes

John Dear: Taking the Beatitudes Seriously

N.T. Wright and the Bancroft Brothers: Theology and Poetry

Jesuitical: How Young Catholics See the World

Resources mentioned this episode

Sermon on the Mount: A Beginners Guide to the Kingdom of Heaven by Amy-Jill Levine

Philip Yancey: Where the Light Fell

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155: Unabridged Interview: Angela Williams Gorrell May 14, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Angela Williams Gorrell.

What is joy? Is it equatable with happiness, or pleasure, or both? Is it to be found in a career, or a romantic partner, or a religion? And if we were to manage it, would our lives forever be free from sorrow, pain, and suffering?

In this episode, author and professor Angela Williams Gorrell, who was teaching a class on joy at Yale when she lost three people that she loved in a four-week span, describes her personal experience of finding joy amidst loss.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes

Kelly Corrigan: How Vulnerability Leads to Connection

Christian Wiman: The Opposite of Faith is Certainty

Resources mentioned this episode

The Gravity of Joy by Angela Williams Gorrell

The Epidemic of Despair

PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes - Angela Williams Gorrell

Link to Transcript for Abridged Episode

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155: Angela Williams Gorrell and Miroslav Volf: On Joy and Sorrow (Best of NSE) May 09, 2024

What is joy? Is it equatable with happiness, or pleasure, or both? Is it to be found in a career, or a romantic partner, or a religion? And if we were to manage it, would our lives forever be free from sorrow, pain, and suffering?

In this episode, two guests discuss joy, describing both what it is and, perhaps more importantly, what it is not. Author and professor Angela Williams Gorrell, who was teaching a class on joy at Yale when she lost three people that she loved in a four-week span, describes her personal experience of finding joy amidst loss. And Yale theologian Miroslav Volf, himself no stranger to suffering growing up in a war torn country, explains the connection between joy and sorrow.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes

Philip Yancey: Where the Light Fell

Kelly Corrigan: How Vulnerability Leads to Connection

Christian Wiman: The Opposite of Faith is Certainty

Resources mentioned this episode

The Gravity of Joy by Angela Williams Gorrell

The Epidemic of Despair

PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes - Angela Williams Gorrell

Eugene Cho: Thou Shalt Not Be a Jerk

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154: Unabridged Interview: Karen Korematsu May 07, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Karen Korematsu.

What is it like to be an Asian American?

In light of the beginning of AAPI month, we present a re-airing of our episode from 2021 with Karen Korematsu and Eugene Cho, two Asian-Americans with unique stories of grief and hope.

Karen Korematsu tells the story of her father Fred Korematsu, a famed Japanese-American civil rights activist who refused Franklin Roosevelt’s executive order to report to what FDR himself called “a concentration camp” on American soil shortly after the bombing of Pearl Harbor.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes

Elise Hu: Obsessed with Beauty

Resources mentioned this episode

The Korematsu Institute

PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes - Karen Korematsu

Transcript of Abridged Episode

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154: Eugene Cho and Karen Korematsu: Asian American History is American History (Best of NSE) May 02, 2024

What is it like to be an Asian American?

In light of the beginning of AAPI month, we present a re-airing of our episode from 2021 with Karen Korematsu and Eugene Cho, two Asian-Americans with unique stories of grief and hope.

Karen Korematsu tells the story of her father Fred Korematsu, a famed Japanese-American civil rights activist who refused Franklin Roosevelt’s executive order to report to what FDR himself called “a concentration camp” on American soil shortly after the bombing of Pearl Harbor. Eugene Cho discusses his experiences as a Korean-born American immigrant, and how we might learn to love our neighbors in the face of political polarization and racial discrimination.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes

Eugene Cho: Thou Shalt Not Be a Jerk

Elise Hu: Obsessed with Beauty

Resources mentioned this episode

Thou Shalt Not Be a Jerk by Eugene Cho

The Korematsu Institute

PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes - Eugene Cho

PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes - Karen Korematsu

Ian Cron: Recovery, the Enneagram, and Being Human

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For Your Consideration: The Gist Featuring Sir David King May 01, 2024

Today, we’re sharing a special episode from The Gist—hosted by Mike Pesca.

Sir David King, formerly the UK's Government Chief Scientific Adviser, is now the Founder and Chair at Cambridge's Center for Climate Repair. He advocates carbon capture technology as part of the mix of solutions to climate change. Many environmentalists are not sold.

Mike Pesca has established a seven-year connection to his audience as host of The Gist. For thirty minutes each day, Pesca challenges himself and his audience, in a responsibly provocative style, and gets beyond the rigidity and dogma. The Gist is surprising, reasonable, and willing to critique the left, the right, either party, or any idea.

Listen to more episodes of The Gist and follow the podcast: https://pod.link/873667927

153: Unabridged Interview: Suzanne Stabile Apr 30, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Suzanne Stabile.

What is the Enneagram, and how can it help us live a good life?

“The unexamined life is not worth living,” said Socrates. But if that’s true, how are we to go about examining our lives, and what templates or metrics are we to use?

One of the best places to start, suggests author and speaker Suzanne Stabile, is the ancient wisdom tool known as the Enneagram. What at first glance seems like a Myers-Briggs-esque personality test for grouping humanity into neat piles is actually a tool for observing our way of seeing and being in the world and helps us see that not everyone experiences the world in the same way. Using the Enneagram, she says, “I teach people who they're not. I don't teach people who they are.” In this episode, she gives an overview of the ways in which the Enneagram just might help us become more understanding, compassionate, holistic people.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes

David Brooks: Can We Save Society by Knowing Each Other?

Kelly Corrigan: How Vulnerability Leads to Connection

Resources mentioned this episode

The Road Back to You by Suzanne Stabile and Ian Cron

The Path Between Us by Suzanne Stabile

The Enneagram Journey podcast

Suzanne’s website

Ian Cron: Recovery, the Enneagram, and Being Human

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153: Suzanne Stabile: Exploring The Enneagram (Best of NSE) Apr 25, 2024

What is the Enneagram, and how can it help us live a good life?

“The unexamined life is not worth living,” said Socrates. But if that’s true, how are we to go about examining our lives, and what templates or metrics are we to use?

One of the best places to start, suggests author and speaker Suzanne Stabile, is the ancient wisdom tool known as the Enneagram. What at first glance seems like a Myers-Briggs-esque personality test for grouping humanity into neat piles is actually a tool for observing our way of seeing and being in the world and helps us see that not everyone experiences the world in the same way. Using the Enneagram, she says, “I teach people who they're not. I don't teach people who they are.” In this episode, she gives an overview of the ways in which the Enneagram just might help us become more understanding, compassionate, holistic people.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes

David Brooks: Can We Save Society by Knowing Each Other?

Kelly Corrigan: How Vulnerability Leads to Connection

Resources mentioned this episode

The Road Back to You by Suzanne Stabile and Ian Cron

The Path Between Us by Suzanne Stabile

The Enneagram Journey podcast

Suzanne’s website

Katharine Hayhoe: The Most Polarized Issue in the United States

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152: Unabridged Interview: Bill McKibben Apr 23, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Bill McKibben.

“If we are to take heart from the really good things about American history, we have no choice but to reckon first with the dark sides of it,” says Bill McKibben, journalist, author, and activist.

One of the most prominent of environmental activists and authors, McKibben also discusses racial justice, the economic impact of suburbanization, and the relation of the Christian church to social change in America.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes

Debra Rienstra: Healing the Earth

Chris Doran: Hope in the Age of Climate Change

Resources mentioned this episode

The Flag, the Cross, and the Station Wagon by Bill McKibben

Bill McKibben Interview Notes

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152: Earth Day Special: Climate and Society Apr 18, 2024

Believe it or not, a 2020 PEW study revealed that the most polarized issue in the US is climate change.

How did we get here? How have the warnings of climate science been ignored by half the country? How serious is the climate problem, how immediate are the consequences, and what can regular people like us really do about it?

In this episode, four voices discuss the subject from all angles. We hear from cognitive scientist John Cook on the history of climate misinformation, climate researcher Katharine Hayhoe on what the science is actually saying, theologian Debra Rienstra on the ways religion impacts climate-based decisions, and activist Bill McKibben on the ways we can help here and now.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes

Katharine Hayhoe: The Most Polarized Issue in the United States

Debra Rienstra: Healing the Earth

Bill McKibben: The Flag, the Cross, and the Station Wagon

Chris Doran: Hope in the Age of Climate Change

Resources mentioned this episode

2020 PEW Study on Climate Polarization

The Flag, the Cross, and the Station Wagon by Bill McKibben

Saving Us by Katharine Hayhoe

Refugia Faith by Debra Rienstra

John Cook Interview Notes

Katharine Hayhoe Interview Notes

Debra Rienstra Interview Notes

Bill McKibben Interview Notes

John Dear: How to Be Nonviolent

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151: Unabridged Interview: Pádraig Ó Tuama Apr 16, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Pádraig Ó Tuama.

What if, to be a peacemaker, one might have to wade into trouble and stir the waters oneself? What if, to be a theologian, one might have to leave some of the most troubling questions about God unanswered? What if, to be a poet, one might have to do away with flowery abstraction and accept the nitty-gritty of real life?

Pádraig Ó Tuama, host of the podcast Poetry Unbound from On Being Studios, is all of these things - peacemaker, theologian, poet. In this episode, he shares beautiful and troubling stories from his peacemaking work in Northern Ireland, discusses why one must be ready to accept nuance as a condition for any fruitful outcome, and offers observations about the makings of a good life.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes

Michael T. McRay: I Am Not Your Enemy

Poetry as Politics: Poet Laureates Tracy K. Smith and Marie Howe

"The Facts of Life" - Pádraig Ó Tuama

Resources mentioned this episode

Being Here by Pádraig Ó Tuama

Sorry for Your Troubles by Pádraig Ó Tuama

Readings from the Book of Exile by Pádraig Ó Tuama

Poetry Unbound

Corrymeela’s website

Link to Transcript for Abridged Episode

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151: Pádraig Ó Tuama: A Poet’s Work in Peace and Reconciliation (Best of NSE) Apr 11, 2024

What if, to be a peacemaker, one might have to wade into trouble and stir the waters oneself? What if, to be a theologian, one might have to leave some of the most troubling questions about God unanswered? What if, to be a poet, one might have to do away with flowery abstraction and accept the nitty-gritty of real life?

Pádraig Ó Tuama, host of the podcast Poetry Unbound from On Being Studios, is all of these things - peacemaker, theologian, poet. In this episode, he shares beautiful and troubling stories from his peacemaking work in Northern Ireland, discusses why one must be ready to accept nuance as a condition for any fruitful outcome, and offers observations about the makings of a good life.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes

John Dear: How to Be Nonviolent

Michael T. McRay: I Am Not Your Enemy

Poetry as Politics: Poet Laureates Tracy K. Smith and Marie Howe

"The Facts of Life" - Pádraig Ó Tuama

Resources mentioned this episode

Being Here by Pádraig Ó Tuama

Sorry for Your Troubles by Pádraig Ó Tuama

Readings from the Book of Exile by Pádraig Ó Tuama

Poetry Unbound

Corrymeela’s website

Forgiving My Mother’s Murderer: Sharon Risher

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150: Unabridged Interview: Azim Khamisa Apr 09, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Azim Khamisa.

How do you forgive the man who killed your son?

In 1995, Azim Khamisa’s only son Tariq was shot and killed while delivering a pizza. The killer was a 14-year-old gang member named Tony Hicks, and due to a recent change of law in the state of California, Tony was tried as an adult and sentenced to 25 years to life in prison.

But instead of responding with a call for outrage or revenge, Azim did the unthinkable: he forgave his son’s killer, and he fought for his release.

“My interpretation of this tragedy was that there are victims at both ends of the gun,” he says. In this episode, he tells the full story of how he uses his experience to help end youth violence, even recruiting his son’s killer to join in the work. It is one of unimaginable grief, staunch faith, and unwavering compassion.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes

Burying 250 Friends: Greg Boyle on Community Amidst Gang Violence

Resources mentioned this episode

TKF’s website

Azim’s website

Azim’s TED Talk

Email Azim: azim@azimkhamisa.com

Link to Transcript for Abridged Episode

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150: Azim Khamisa: Ending Violence Through Forgiveness (Best of NSE) Apr 04, 2024

How do you forgive the man who killed your son?

In 1995, Azim Khamisa’s only son Tariq was shot and killed while delivering a pizza. The killer was a 14-year-old gang member named Tony Hicks, and due to a recent change of law in the state of California, Tony was tried as an adult and sentenced to 25 years to life in prison.

But instead of responding with a call for outrage or revenge, Azim did the unthinkable: he forgave his son’s killer, and he fought for his release.

“My interpretation of this tragedy was that there are victims at both ends of the gun,” he says. In this episode, he tells the full story of how he uses his experience to help end youth violence, even recruiting his son’s killer to join in the work. It is one of unimaginable grief, staunch faith, and unwavering compassion.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes

Forgiving My Mother’s Murderer: Sharon Risher

Burying 250 Friends: Greg Boyle on Community Amidst Gang Violence

Resources mentioned this episode

TKF’s website

Azim’s website

Azim’s TED Talk

Email Azim: azim@azimkhamisa.com

Jennifer Wiseman: How Science Produces Wonder

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149: Unabridged Interview: Dacher Keltner Apr 02, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Dacher Keltner.

“Brief doses…help your heart, your immune system, your stress, your reasoning, your relationships,” says psychologist and bestselling author Dacher Keltner. And believe it or not, he’s not describing some new miracle drug or medical treatment.

He’s talking about the experience of awe.

He defines awe as “the feeling we have when we encounter vast, mysterious things.” It’s something we all have experienced, but often talk about rather sheepishly. Dacher has spent considerable time seeking it out and studying it, and the results are in. In this episode, he shares his findings, and offers all the ways in which awe is a necessary component to a happy, healthy, flourishing life.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes

Ming Kuo’s 21 pathways by which nature is good for one’s health

Resources mentioned this episode

Awe by Dacher Keltner

AlanCowan.com

Brian Sutton and Tammy Rogers performing “Nachstucke”

Jennifer Wiseman: How Science Produces Wonder

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149: Dacher Keltner: How Awe Will Transform Your Life Mar 28, 2024

“Brief doses…help your heart, your immune system, your stress, your reasoning, your relationships,” says psychologist and bestselling author Dacher Keltner. And believe it or not, he’s not describing some new miracle drug or medical treatment.

He’s talking about the experience of awe.

He defines awe as “the feeling we have when we encounter vast, mysterious things.” It’s something we all have experienced, but often talk about rather sheepishly. Dacher has spent considerable time seeking it out and studying it, and the results are in. In this episode, he shares his findings, and offers all the ways in which awe is a necessary component to a happy, healthy, flourishing life.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes

Ming Kuo’s 21 pathways by which nature is good for one’s health

Resources mentioned this episode

Awe by Dacher Keltner

AlanCowan.com

Brian Sutton and Tammy Rogers performing “Nachstucke”

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148: Unabridged Interview: Philip Yancey Mar 26, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Philip Yancey.

What do we do with the painful parts of our life story?

Anybody familiar with Philip Yancey’s work knows that it has cost him more than time to be a bestselling author and journalist. It has cost him a lifetime of pain, loss, and deep spiritual struggle.

Philip intentionally waited until recently to write down his story to protect some of the people in it, but now in his seventies, he’s released “Where the Light Fell,” his memoir that shares all the messy details about growing and beyond - losing his father, childhood poverty, parental abuse, ruinous fundamentalist Christianity, militant atheism, a nearly fatal car accident, and more.

In this episode he shares how he managed to come to new understanding in the face of suffering. “A writer really only has one gift,” says Philip Yancey, “and that's the gift of his or her own life.”

Show Notes

Similar episodes:

Amy Grant: Fame, Vulnerability, and Staying Grounded

Kelly Corrigan: How Vulnerability Leads to Connection

Christian Wiman: The Opposite of Faith is Certainty

Resources mentioned this episode:

Where the Light Fell by Philip Yancey

My Name is Asher Lev by Chaim Potok

Soul Survivor by Philip Yancey

Transcript for Abridged Episode

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148: Philip Yancey: Where the Light Fell Mar 21, 2024

What do we do with the painful parts of our life story?

Anybody familiar with Philip Yancey’s work knows that it has cost him more than time to be a bestselling author and journalist. It has cost him a lifetime of pain, loss, and deep spiritual struggle.

Philip intentionally waited until recently to write down his story to protect some of the people in it, but now in his seventies, he’s released “Where the Light Fell,” his memoir that shares all the messy details about growing and beyond - losing his father, childhood poverty, parental abuse, ruinous fundamentalist Christianity, militant atheism, a nearly fatal car accident, and more.

In this episode he shares how he managed to come to new understanding in the face of suffering. “A writer really only has one gift,” says Philip Yancey, “and that's the gift of his or her own life.”

Show Notes

Similar episodes:

Amy Grant: Fame, Vulnerability, and Staying Grounded

Kelly Corrigan: How Vulnerability Leads to Connection

Christian Wiman: The Opposite of Faith is Certainty

Resources mentioned this episode:

Where the Light Fell by Philip Yancey

My Name is Asher Lev by Chaim Potok

Soul Survivor by Philip Yancey

Kristin Neff: Self Compassion

Transcription Link

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147: Unabridged Interview: Tara Brach Mar 19, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Tara Brach.

How do you accept yourself fully, just as you are? And if you did, would you ever grow?

“Being at peace with how we are in the moment is the precondition to transformation,” says psychologist and meditation teacher Tara Brach.

In this episode she provides us with a simple practice to find peace and transformation known by the acronym RAIN.

“We have amazing potential to change some of the habits that cause ourselves or others harm,” she says, “but we won't be able to access that if we're at war with ourselves.” Hear Tara’s stories from a life of practicing mindfulness, putting on display the wisdom and healing that come from pausing to accept the world as it is.

This episode contains a brief mention of disordered eating. If you are in need of support, contact the National Alliance for Eating Disorders at 1-866-662-1235

Show Notes

Similar episodes:

Suzanne Stabile: Enneagram Wisdom and Living Well

Radical Acceptance by Tara Brach

Resources mentioned this episode

When Things Fall Apart by Pema Chodron

RAIN meditation with Tara Brach

Tonglen meditation with Pema Chodron

Kristin Neff: Self Compassion

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147: Tara Brach: Radical Acceptance Mar 14, 2024

How do you accept yourself fully, just as you are? And if you did, would you ever grow?

“Being at peace with how we are in the moment is the precondition to transformation,” says psychologist and meditation teacher Tara Brach.

In this episode she provides us with a simple practice to find peace and transformation known by the acronym RAIN.

“We have amazing potential to change some of the habits that cause ourselves or others harm,” she says, “but we won't be able to access that if we're at war with ourselves.” Hear Tara’s stories from a life of practicing mindfulness, putting on display the wisdom and healing that come from pausing to accept the world as it is.

This episode contains a brief mention of disordered eating. If you are in need of support, contact the National Alliance for Eating Disorders at 1-866-662-1235

Show Notes

Similar episodes:

Suzanne Stabile: Enneagram Wisdom and Living Well

Radical Acceptance by Tara Brach

Resources mentioned this episode

When Things Fall Apart by Pema Chodron

RAIN meditation with Tara Brach

Tonglen meditation with Pema Chodron

David Brooks: Can We Save Society by Knowing Each Other?

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146: Unabridged Interview: Malcolm Gladwell Mar 12, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Malcolm Gladwell.

You may think you know Malcolm Gladwell.

He is, after all, a New York Times bestselling author of “Outliers,” “The Tipping Point,” “Blink,” and other books. He’s the host of the wildly popular podcast “Revisionist History.” His work is heralded and his opinion asked by many folks on a wide array of issues. But what makes him so different that he has become one of the most successful journalists of our day?

In this episode, Malcolm tells a host of stories - from receiving endorsement from his mother to cut class, to attending a Mennonite barn-raising with his mathematician father, to spending three days a week in Freudian therapy as a young adult - all which help explain how he became the wildly curious and unpinnable person that he is, bent on getting to the bottom of things.

Show Notes

Similar episodes:

Bill McKibben: The Flag, the Cross, and the Station Wagon

Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell

Resources mentioned this episode:

Blink by Malcolm Gladwell

The Tipping Point by Malcolm Gladwell

Revisionist History Podcast

Lee’s Interview Notes

David Brooks: Can We Save Society by Knowing Each Other?

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146: Malcolm Gladwell: Becoming Malcolm Mar 07, 2024

You may think you know Malcolm Gladwell.

He is, after all, a New York Times bestselling author of “Outliers,” “The Tipping Point,” “Blink,” and other books. He’s the host of the wildly popular podcast “Revisionist History.” His work is heralded and his opinion asked by many folks on a wide array of issues. But what makes him so different that he has become one of the most successful journalists of our day?

In this episode, Malcolm tells a host of stories - from receiving endorsement from his mother to cut class, to attending a Mennonite barn-raising with his mathematician father, to spending three days a week in Freudian therapy as a young adult - all which help explain how he became the wildly curious and unpinnable person that he is, bent on getting to the bottom of things.

Show Notes

Similar episodes:

Bill McKibben: The Flag, the Cross, and the Station Wagon

Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell

Resources mentioned this episode:

Blink by Malcolm Gladwell

The Tipping Point by Malcolm Gladwell

Revisionist History Podcast

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145: Unabridged Interview: Tim Alberta Mar 05, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Tim Alberta.

At No Small Endeavor, we try to talk about the things that really matter to people. Two such things - politics and religion - are notoriously tricky to discuss without generalizing, proselytizing, or stoking division.

But in an election year, we can’t ignore a sub-group in the United States that is adamant about combining faith and nation: Christian Nationalists.

In this episode, we called in Tim Alberta, author of “The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory” and an expert for the job. He shares what it was like growing up around the movement, offers his criticism of a subculture he knows inside and out, and presents the clear and present danger of conflating religious identity with national identity.

Show Notes

Similar episodes:

David French: Conservatism without Trumpism

The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory by Tim Alberta

Randall Balmer – name? Link?

Resources mentioned this episode:

Jesus and John Wayne by Kristin Du Mez

Transcription Link for Abridged Episode

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145: Tim Alberta: The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory Feb 29, 2024

At No Small Endeavor, we try to talk about the things that really matter to people. Two such things - politics and religion - are notoriously tricky to discuss without generalizing, proselytizing, or stoking division.

But in an election year, we can’t ignore a sub-group in the United States that is adamant about combining faith and nation: Christian Nationalists.

In this episode, we called in Tim Alberta, author of “The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory” and an expert for the job. He shares what it was like growing up around the movement, offers his criticism of a subculture he knows inside and out, and presents the clear and present danger of conflating religious identity with national identity.

Show Notes

Similar episodes:

David French: Conservatism without Trumpism

The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory by Tim Alberta

Randall Balmer – name? Link?

Resources mentioned this episode:

Jesus and John Wayne by Kristin Du Mez

David Brooks: Can We Save Society by Knowing Each Other?

JOIN NSE+ Today! Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows

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144: Unabridged Interview: Eboo Patel Feb 27, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Eboo Patel.

“Diversity is a treasure,” says President and Founder of Interfaith America Eboo Patel. But what does “diversity” really mean?

The term is found these days in public discourse and political debate, in boardrooms and on athletic fields. But Eboo argues that the way it plays out in the United States often misses the point entirely: instead of honoring identity and leaving room for disagreement, we settle for a flattening of culture, calling it “diversity.”

“Coherent doesn’t mean univocal,” says Eboo. “In a democracy, you actually get to articulate your identity.” In this episode, Eboo describes why we should treasure our differences - especially religious differences - rather than treat them as insignificant, and provides new ways to frame polarizing issues around religion, race, and politics.

Show Notes

Similar episodes:

We Need to Build by Eboo Patel

Resources mentioned this episode

Acts of Faith by Eboo Patel

Interfaith America’s website

David Brooks: Can We Save Society by Knowing Each Other?

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144: Eboo Patel: Field Notes for Diverse Democracy Feb 22, 2024

“Diversity is a treasure,” says President and Founder of Interfaith America Eboo Patel. But what does “diversity” really mean?

The term is found these days in public discourse and political debate, in boardrooms and on athletic fields. But Eboo argues that the way it plays out in the United States often misses the point entirely: instead of honoring identity and leaving room for disagreement, we settle for a flattening of culture, calling it “diversity.”

“Coherent doesn’t mean univocal,” says Eboo. “In a democracy, you actually get to articulate your identity.” In this episode, Eboo describes why we should treasure our differences - especially religious differences - rather than treat them as insignificant, and provides new ways to frame polarizing issues around religion, race, and politics.

Show Notes

Similar episodes:

We Need to Build by Eboo Patel

Resources mentioned this episode

Acts of Faith by Eboo Patel

Interfaith America’s website

Pervis Payne: The Death Penalty

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For Your Consideration: Your Mama's Kitchen with John Batiste Feb 21, 2024

Sharing an episode of Your Mama’s Kitchen, a podcast about cuisine and culture, ingredients and identities, and the meals and memories that make us who we are.

Every week, host Michele Norris talks to guests like Michelle Obama, Glennon Doyle, José Andrés and more. Together they explore the complexities of family life and how their earliest culinary experiences helped shape their personal and professional lives—and of course, each guest shares a recipe for a favorite dish from their youth so you can taste a bit of their story.

In this episode, singer-songwriter Jon Batiste serenades us with his harmonica-keyboard while reminiscing on the sounds of his childhood kitchen in New Orleans. He describes what it was like to grow up in a big, musical family of jazz legends, and shares some of their favorite Christmas traditions—including competing to see who could make the best and truest gumbo.

You can find more Your Mama’s Kitchen here.

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143: Unabridged Interview: Anthony Ray Hinton Feb 20, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Anthony Ray Hinton.

“I don’t care whether you did or didn’t do it. I’m going to make sure you’re found guilty.”

These were the words that Anthony Ray Hinton says put him on Alabama’s death row for nearly 3 decades for a murder he didn’t commit. In 2015, after numerous appeals, he was released after the US Supreme Court vacated the charges, and the State of Alabama dropped the case.

Mr. Hinton is author of the New York Times bestseller, “The Sun Does Shine: How I Found Life and Freedom on Death Row.” His story recounts his harrowing decades on death row, and his intention to make choices for compassion and joy in the midst of the chaos of prison life, spending 23 hours every day in a 5 x 7 cell, and watching 54 individuals pass his cell on their way to the death chamber.

“You can sit in that cell and be angry with the world,” he says, “or you can sit in that cell and try to find peace and joy. But you can't say you don't have a choice.”

Similar episodes:

The Architect of the American Civil Rights Movement: James Lawson

Jameel McGee and Andrew Collins: Dirty Cop, False Arrest, and Unexpected Consequences

Resources mentioned this episode

The Sun Does Shine by Anthony Ray Hinton

The Sun Does Shine (Young Readers Edition) by Anthony Ray Hinton

Go Tell It on the Mountain by James Baldwin

Pervis Payne: The Death Penalty

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143: Anthony Ray Hinton: An Innocent Man on Death Row Feb 15, 2024

“I don’t care whether you did or didn’t do it. I’m going to make sure you’re found guilty.”

These were the words that Anthony Ray Hinton says put him on Alabama’s death row for nearly 3 decades for a murder he didn’t commit. In 2015, after numerous appeals, he was released after the US Supreme Court vacated the charges, and the State of Alabama dropped the case.

Mr. Hinton is author of the New York Times bestseller, “The Sun Does Shine: How I Found Life and Freedom on Death Row.” His story recounts his harrowing decades on death row, and his intention to make choices for compassion and joy in the midst of the chaos of prison life, spending 23 hours every day in a 5 x 7 cell, and watching 54 individuals pass his cell on their way to the death chamber.

“You can sit in that cell and be angry with the world,” he says, “or you can sit in that cell and try to find peace and joy. But you can't say you don't have a choice.”

Similar episodes:

The Architect of the American Civil Rights Movement: James Lawson

Jameel McGee and Andrew Collins: Dirty Cop, False Arrest, and Unexpected Consequences

Resources mentioned this episode:

The Sun Does Shine by Anthony Ray Hinton

The Sun Does Shine (Young Readers Edition) by Anthony Ray Hinton

Go Tell It on the Mountain by James Baldwin

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142: Unabridged Interview: Rob Reiner and Dan Partland Feb 13, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Rob Reiner and Dan Partland.

What ideas mobilized people to storm the Capitol on January 6th?

The new documentary “God & Country” from acclaimed actor and filmmaker Rob Reiner and director Dan Partland seeks to answer that question. Their journalism explores the motives, philosophies, and ideas behind Christian nationalism, and looks at the implications of those views and how they distort not only our constitutional republic, but Christianity itself.

“We've got to find a way to live and not kill each other,” says Rob, “especially not over our ideas.” The film features interviews with experts from many different realms - including historians, theologians, political pundits, and more - in order to shed light on the intermix of power and religion in our day.

In this episode, Rob and Dan describe their film, why they made it, and what they learned in the process.

Show Notes

Similar episodes:

Randall Balmer: Race and the Rise of the Religious Right

Robert Jones: White Too Long

Resources mentioned this episode

”God and Country” Trailer

Transcription Link for Abridged Episode

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142: Rob Reiner and Dan Partland: Their New Film “God and Country” Feb 08, 2024

What ideas mobilized people to storm the Capitol on January 6th?

The new documentary “God & Country” from acclaimed actor and filmmaker Rob Reiner and director Dan Partland seeks to answer that question. Their journalism explores the motives, philosophies, and ideas behind Christian nationalism, and looks at the implications of those views and how they distort not only our constitutional republic, but Christianity itself.

“We've got to find a way to live and not kill each other,” says Rob, “especially not over our ideas.” The film features interviews with experts from many different realms - including historians, theologians, political pundits, and more - in order to shed light on the intermix of power and religion in our day.

In this episode, Rob and Dan describe their film, why they made it, and what they learned in the process.

Show Notes

Similar episodes:

Randall Balmer: Race and the Rise of the Religious Right

Robert Jones: White Too Long

Resources mentioned this episode

”God and Country” Trailer

David Brooks: The Road to Character

Transcription Link

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141: Unabridged Interview: David Brooks Feb 06, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with David Brooks.

“We’re in the middle of some sort of social crisis,” says New York Times columnist and bestselling author David Brooks.

Politics and social discourse have become brutal. Loneliness, hopelessness, and suicide rates have been measured at all-time highs. Trust and friendship have been measured at all-time lows. But all is not lost, according to David. There is still a way forward, and it’s simpler than one might think.

“The essential moral act is the act of attention,” he says. “Our goal should be to cast a just and loving attention on others.” In this episode, he discusses his new book, “How to Know a Person: The Art of Seeing Others Deeply and Being Deeply Seen,” and how truly knowing others calls forth a better version of both oneself and one’s community.

A warning: this episode contains mention of suicide. If you or someone you know is in crisis, contact the Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255.

Show Notes

Similar episodes:

Kelly Corrigan: How Vulnerability Leads to Connection

Curt Thompson: The Power Of Being Seen

Resources mentioned this episode

How to Know a Person by David Brooks

The Sovereignty of Good by Iris Murdoch

David Brooks: The Road to Character

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For Your Consideration: How God Works with David DeSteno Feb 02, 2024

We're pleased on occasion to share with you an episode from other podcasts which we find important and helpful. You may have heard our episode with renowned psychologist David DeSteno, on his book How God Works. I very much enjoyed my conversation with Dave, and found his approach helpful and refreshing. On his podcast, by the same name—How God Works—Dave talks with religious leaders, scientists, and intellectuals from various fields and explores the overlap between scientific research and the teachings of various wisdom and faith traditions.

The episode we share today I find particularly helpful: one on hope, and the cultivation of hopefulness in a world marred by seemingly intractable violence and hostility. Dave interviews Pulitzer-prize winning journalist Nicholas Kristof, who discusses ways he's learned to maintain hopefulness even while covering some of the most horrific instances of violence and war-making; and Roshi Joan Halifax, founder of Upaya Zen Center in Santa Fe, NM, about the notion of wise hope, the equanimity it can bring, and the fierce compassion it can unleash.

We hope you enjoy this episode of How God Works and consider subscribing.

-Lee C. Camp

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141: David Brooks: Can We Save Society By Knowing Each Other? Feb 01, 2024

“We’re in the middle of some sort of social crisis,” says New York Times columnist and bestselling author David Brooks.

Politics and social discourse have become brutal. Loneliness, hopelessness, and suicide rates have been measured at all-time highs. Trust and friendship have been measured at all-time lows. But all is not lost, according to David. There is still a way forward, and it’s simpler than one might think.

“The essential moral act is the act of attention,” he says. “Our goal should be to cast a just and loving attention on others.” In this episode, he discusses his new book, “How to Know a Person: The Art of Seeing Others Deeply and Being Deeply Seen,” and how truly knowing others calls forth a better version of both oneself and one’s community.

A warning: this episode contains mention of suicide. If you or someone you know is in crisis, contact the Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255.

Show Notes

Similar episodes:

Kelly Corrigan: How Vulnerability Leads to Connection

Curt Thompson: The Power Of Being Seen

Resources mentioned this episode

How to Know a Person by David Brooks

The Sovereignty of Good by Iris Murdoch

The Architect of the American Civil Rights Movement: James Lawson

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140: Unabridged Interview: John Dear Jan 30, 2024

This is our unabridged episode with John Dear.

How do you live a good life in a world of 30 wars, 13,000 nuclear weapons, 4 billion people in poverty, racism, gun violence, child hunger, and catastrophic climate change?

This is the question posed by activist and Catholic priest John Dear. For years, John has taken part in peace movements alongside folks like Coretta King, Thich Nhat Hanh, and Desmond Tutu.

In this episode, he has some unbelievable stories that answer his question in a provocative way. To live a good life, he argues, you cannot support war, nuclear weapons, or violence. “To do the good,” in his words, “means to stop the killing.”

Show Notes

Similar episodes:

German Catholics and Hitler’s Wars by Gordon Zahn

Resources mentioned this episode:

Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl

The Nonviolent Life by John Dear

The Beatitudes Center

John Dear’s website

The Architect of the American Civil Rights Movement: James Lawson

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140: John Dear: How To Be Nonviolent (Best of NSE) Jan 25, 2024

How do you live a good life in a world of 30 wars, 13,000 nuclear weapons, 4 billion people in poverty, racism, gun violence, child hunger, and catastrophic climate change?

This is the question posed by activist and Catholic priest John Dear. For years, John has taken part in peace movements alongside folks like Coretta King, Thich Nhat Hanh, and Desmond Tutu.

In this episode, he has some unbelievable stories that answer his question in a provocative way. To live a good life, he argues, you cannot support war, nuclear weapons, or violence. “To do the good,” in his words, “means to stop the killing.”

Show Notes

Similar episodes:

German Catholics and Hitler’s Wars by Gordon Zahn

Resources mentioned this episode:

Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl

The Nonviolent Life by John Dear

The Beatitudes Center

John Dear’s website

The Architect of The American Civil Rights Movement: James Lawson

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139: Unabridged Interview: Martin Sheen Jan 23, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with Martin Sheen.

In this episode, Lee sits down with the former President of the United States…

At least, that’s how many listeners may know Martin Sheen, an award-winning actor known for his roles in “Apocalypse Now” and “The Departed,” and perhaps most famously for playing President Jed Bartlet in the hit TV series “The West Wing.”

But offscreen, Martin is perhaps best described as an ardent Catholic peace activist who has been arrested over 60 times. In this episode, he tells his whole story, full of humor and grace all the way from his childhood, to his acting career, to activism alongside James Lawson and John Dear, and much more.

Show Notes

Similar episodes:

The West Wing Cathedral Scene

Resources mentioned this episode:

The Architect of The American Civil Rights Movement: James Lawson

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139: Martin Sheen: Actor and Activist (Best of NSE) Jan 18, 2024

In this episode, Lee sits down with the former President of the United States…

At least, that’s how many listeners may know Martin Sheen, an award-winning actor known for his roles in “Apocalypse Now” and “The Departed,” and perhaps most famously for playing President Jed Bartlet in the hit TV series “The West Wing.”

But offscreen, Martin is perhaps best described as an ardent Catholic peace activist who has been arrested over 60 times. In this episode, he tells his whole story, full of humor and grace all the way from his childhood, to his acting career, to activism alongside James Lawson and John Dear, and much more.

Show Notes

Similar episodes:

The West Wing Cathedral Scene

Resources mentioned this episode:

Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube

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138: Unabridged Interview: James Lawson Jan 16, 2024

This is our unabridged interview with James Lawson.

The US Civil Rights Movement, like Gandhi's Indian Independence Movement, was famously set apart by its employment of non-violent resistance methods. But have you ever wondered how such a movement was possible on so large a scale?

In this episode, we are honored to have the man who Martin Luther King Jr. called friend, mentor, and the very conscience and architect of the Civil Rights Movement: Reverend James Lawson.

Now in his 90’s, he discusses the United States’ past and present, and what it took to organize a whole population across the country to fight back without throwing a punch.

“We started the public desegregation of the nation,” he says, “and we did it without hating anybody.”

Show Notes

Similar episodes:

Dr. Fred Gray: Doing Justice Alongside MLK and Rosa Parks

Rev. James Lawson’s Church: Holman United Methodist

Resources mentioned this episode:

Fellowship Of Reconciliation (F.O.R.)

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138: James Lawson: The Architect of the United States Civil Rights Movement (Best of NSE) Jan 11, 2024

The US Civil Rights Movement, like Gandhi's Indian Independence Movement, was famously set apart by its employment of non-violent resistance methods. But have you ever wondered how such a movement was possible on so large a scale?

In this episode, we are honored to have the man who Martin Luther King Jr. called friend, mentor, and the very conscience and architect of the Civil Rights Movement: Reverend James Lawson.

Now in his 90’s, he discusses the United States’ past and present, and what it took to organize a whole population across the country to fight back without throwing a punch.

“We started the public desegregation of the nation,” he says, “and we did it without hating anybody.”

Show Notes

Similar episodes:

Dr. Fred Gray: Doing Justice Alongside MLK and Rosa Parks

Rev. James Lawson’s Church: Holman United Methodist

Resources mentioned this episode:

Fellowship Of Reconciliation (F.O.R.)

Time Management for Mortals: Oliver Burkeman

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Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

137: Unabridged Interview: Angela Duckworth Jan 09, 2024

What do Olympic athletes, world-class artists, elite academics, and successful business executives have in common? Ivy League psychologist Angela Duckworth has spent her career researching this question, closely studying those folks at the top of their respective fields who are considered “high achievers.” Surprisingly, it turns out neither talent nor genius is the answer. “The common denominator,” she says, “is grit.”

In this episode, Angela Duckworth explains what she means by “grit,” discusses why it is such a crucial determinant for success, and offers highly practical methods for developing grit in one’s own life.

Show Notes

Similar episodes:

What it Takes to Live a Good Life: Meghan Sullivan

Resources mentioned this episode

Grit by Angela Duckworth

Character Lab

Time Management for Mortals: Oliver Burkeman

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137: Angela Duckworth: Is Grit the Secret to Success? (Best of NSE) Jan 04, 2024

What do Olympic athletes, world-class artists, elite academics, and successful business executives have in common? Ivy League psychologist Angela Duckworth has spent her career researching this question, closely studying those folks at the top of their respective fields who are considered “high achievers.” Surprisingly, it turns out neither talent nor genius is the answer. “The common denominator,” she says, “is grit.”

In this episode, Angela Duckworth explains what she means by “grit,” discusses why it is such a crucial determinant for success, and offers highly practical methods for developing grit in one’s own life.

Show Notes

Similar episodes:

What it Takes to Live a Good Life: Meghan Sullivan

Resources mentioned this episode

Grit by Angela Duckworth

Character Lab

Episode Transcript

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Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book | Joy & the Good Life Course

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136: Unabridged Interview: Elise Hu Jan 02, 2024

This is our unabridged episode with Elise Hu.

What is beauty, and what role should it play in our lives?

Beauty has long been seen as one the three “transcendentals” (along with truth and goodness) which have been valued at all times, in all places, by all cultures. But these days, the word “beauty” is often equated with standards of bodily presentation that, in an increasingly globalized and technological world, are reachable only by extreme measures of constant labor or cosmetic surgery.

In this episode, Elise asks the question we’re all thinking: is that version of beauty good for us? She discusses her experience in a beauty-obsessed Korean culture, its effects on both women and men, and what a healthy relationship with beauty might look like.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes

Thou Shalt Not Be a Jerk: Eugene Cho

Resources mentioned this episode

Flawless by Elise Hu

Transcription Link for Abridged Episode

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136: Elise Hu: Obsessed With Beauty (Best of NSE) Dec 28, 2023

What is beauty, and what role should it play in our lives?

Beauty has long been seen as one the three “transcendentals” (along with truth and goodness) which have been valued at all times, in all places, by all cultures. But these days, the word “beauty” is often equated with standards of bodily presentation that, in an increasingly globalized and technological world, are reachable only by extreme measures of constant labor or cosmetic surgery.

In this episode, Elise asks the question we’re all thinking: is that version of beauty good for us? She discusses her experience in a beauty-obsessed Korean culture, its effects on both women and men, and what a healthy relationship with beauty might look like.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes

Thou Shalt Not Be a Jerk: Eugene Cho

Resources mentioned this episode

Flawless by Elise Hu

Johnnyswim: Reality TV, the Cuban Revolution, and a Disco Queen Mother

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132: Unabridged Interview: Tom and Tony Bancroft Dec 27, 2023

Twins Tom and Tony Bancroft grew up sharing a small bedroom, trying to out-draw each other. Today, they have long careers under their belts working for Disney, Warner Brothers, and many more esteemed animation studios.

Their life’s work is a testament to the power of passion, imagination, faith, and brotherhood. In this episode, they discuss how they became animators at the world’s most famous companies, what it’s like to be storytellers for the masses, and what their faith has meant to them over the course of their lives.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes

Drew Holcomb: Fighting Dragons and Singing at Loss

Resources mentioned this episode

The Bancroft Brothers Animation Podcast

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135: Unabridged Interview: Heather Holleman Dec 26, 2023

This is our unabridged episode with Heather Holleman.

How important is it to be a good conversationalist?

In an age of widespread loneliness, close relationships are at a premium, and it’s harder than ever to find common ground, even with those we spend time with on a daily basis. According to Heather Holleman, this is due in part to the fact that we have lost the ability to have what she calls “good conversations.”

“Good conversations create personal closeness,” she says. “When you have good conversations, it could intervene in the loneliness epidemic.”

In this episode, she discusses her book “The Six Conversations: Pathways to Connecting in an Age of Isolation and Inactivity,” in which she offers loads of practical tips for becoming better listeners, talkers, question askers, and ultimately, human beings.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes

Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz: Lessons from the World’s Longest Scientific Study on Happiness

Kelly Corrigan: How Vulnerability Leads to Connection

The Six Conversations by Heather Holleman

Resources mentioned this episode

Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz: Lessons from the World’s Longest Scientific Study on Happiness

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135: Heather Holleman: The Art of Conversation (Best of NSE) Dec 21, 2023

How important is it to be a good conversationalist?

In an age of widespread loneliness, close relationships are at a premium, and it’s harder than ever to find common ground, even with those we spend time with on a daily basis. According to Heather Holleman, this is due in part to the fact that we have lost the ability to have what she calls “good conversations.”

“Good conversations create personal closeness,” she says. “When you have good conversations, it could intervene in the loneliness epidemic.”

In this episode, she discusses her book “The Six Conversations: Pathways to Connecting in an Age of Isolation and Inactivity,” in which she offers loads of practical tips for becoming better listeners, talkers, question askers, and ultimately, human beings.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes

Kelly Corrigan: How Vulnerability Leads to Connection

The Six Conversations by Heather Holleman

Resources mentioned this episode

Episode Transcript

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134: Unabridged Interview: Rebecca DeYoung Dec 19, 2023

This is our unabridged interview with Rebecca DeYoung.

Sin.

It's a word seen by many as a "religious word," one which evokes all manner of images. Like, maybe Las Vegas. Or the temptation of Adam and Eve in the book of Genesis. But many see it as an irrelevant word to their contemporary life.

Our guest today has studied what are traditionally referred to as the seven deadly sins. She proposes that the medieval taxonomy of sin is actually -quite- relevant to our lives today; and that it can steer us -away- from destructive ways of life, and toward habits, practices, dispositions which make possible, a better life.

Rebecca DeYoung is author of the award-winning book “Glittering Vices: A New Look at the Seven Deadly Sins and Their Remedies” and a Professor of Ethics, History, and Philosophy at Calvin College.

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134: Rebecca DeYoung: The 7 Deadly Sins (Best of NSE) Dec 14, 2023

Sin.

It's a word seen by many as "religious word," one which evokes all manner of images. Like, maybe Las Vegas. Or the temptation of Adam and Eve in the book of Genesis. But many see it as an irrelevant word to their contemporary life.

Our guest today has studied what are traditionally referred to as the seven deadly sins. She proposes that the medieval taxonomy of sin is actually -quite- relevant to our lives today; and that it can steer us -away- from destructive ways of life, and toward habits, practices, dispositions which make possible, a better life.

Rebecca DeYoung is author of the award-winning book “Glittering Vices: A New Look at the Seven Deadly Sins and Their Remedies” and a Professor of Ethics, History, and Philosophy at Calvin College.

Join NSE+ Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows

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133: Unabridged Interview: Peter Harris and Jo Swinney Dec 12, 2023

This is our unabridged interview with Peter Harris and Jo Swinney.

“If you live in community, you have no choice but to tell a true story.”

Peter Harris, Anglican clergyman and founder of environmental non-profit A Rocha, lost his beloved wife Miranda in a car accident in South Africa. Miranda left behind a grieving community, and an unfinished book.

Their daughter, Jo Swinney, found her mother’s unfinished book, full of wisdom and stories from a life dedicated to hospitality. She finished and published it, and in the process, learned much about both grief and joy.

In this episode, Peter and Jo sit down in front of a live audience to discuss the legacy of hospitality and faith that Miranda left, what it has been like to grieve, and what it might be like to see a deteriorating world with the same hope that Miranda did.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes

Katharine Hayhoe: “The Most Polarized Issue in the United States”

Burying 250 Friends: Greg Boyle on Community Amidst Gang Violence

Resources mentioned this episode

A Place at the Table by Jo Swinney and Miranda Harris

A Rocha International

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133: Peter Harris and Jo Swinney: A Place at the Table Dec 07, 2023

“If you live in community, you have no choice but to tell a true story.”

Peter Harris, Anglican clergyman and founder of environmental non-profit A Rocha, lost his beloved wife Miranda in a car accident in South Africa. Miranda left behind a grieving community, and an unfinished book.

Their daughter, Jo Swinney, found her mother’s unfinished book, full of wisdom and stories from a life dedicated to hospitality. She finished and published it, and in the process, learned much about both grief and joy.

In this episode, Peter and Jo sit down in front of a live audience to discuss the legacy of hospitality and faith that Miranda left, what it has been like to grieve, and what it might be like to see a deteriorating world with the same hope that Miranda did.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes

Katharine Hayhoe: “The Most Polarized Issue in the United States”

Burying 250 Friends: Greg Boyle on Community Amidst Gang Violence

Resources mentioned this episode

A Place at the Table by Jo Swinney and Miranda Harris

A Rocha International

Join NSE+ Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows

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Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

132: Unabridged Interview: N.T. Wright Dec 05, 2023

This is our unabridged interview with N.T. Wright.

How does art affect our theology?

“Most Christians believe that the aim of the game is to go to heaven when you die. That’s wrong,” says N.T. Wright, Anglican bishop and bestselling author. In fact, he argues, most Christians have gotten it completely backwards. We don’t go there when we die - it comes to us when we live.

In this episode, we discuss how such a drastic theological error can be widely accepted, and why the stories we tell each other through art have a greater impact on our beliefs than we think.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes

Rebecca DeYoung: Seven Ways to Ruin Your Life

John Mark Comer: The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry

Resources mentioned this episode

Ask N.T. Wright Anything Podcast

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132: N.T. Wright and the Bancroft Brothers: Theology and Poetry Nov 30, 2023

How does art affect our theology?

“Most Christians believe that the aim of the game is to go to heaven when you die. That’s wrong,” says N.T. Wright, Anglican bishop and bestselling author. In fact, he argues, most Christians have gotten it completely backwards. We don’t go there when we die - it comes to us when we live.

In this episode, we discuss how such a drastic theological error can be widely accepted, and why the stories we tell each other through art have a greater impact on our beliefs than we think. Plus, we hear on the subject from two master storytellers, Tom and Tony Bancroft.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes

Rebecca DeYoung: Seven Ways to Ruin Your Life

John Mark Comer: The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry

Resources mentioned this episode

Ask N.T. Wright Anything Podcast

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131: NSE Thanksgiving Special: Conversation and Gratitude Nov 23, 2023

Happy Thanksgiving!

How can one be grateful during difficult times? And how do we talk to one another in a polarized world?

In this episode, we bring you four conversations to tee you up for a successful and meaningful time with family and friends. First, we hear from six-time Grammy-winner Amy Grant on her newfound gratitude in the wake of a traumatic bike accident. Then, Heather Holleman gives us all practical tips on having great bonding conversations that make people feel seen and heard, transcending the things that divide us. Third, community organizer and activist Diane Latiker shares how she opened up her home and changed the trajectory of a neighborhood through hospitality. Lastly, author Oliver Burkeman reveals the key to living in the moment and transforming the mundane into something meaningful.

Altogether, it’s the perfect toolkit for getting in the right frame of mind and heading into the holidays with gratitude and conversation.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes

Amy Grant: Fame, Vulnerability, and Staying Grounded

America’s Gun Epidemic: David Hemenway, Chris Hays, Carly Crouch, and Diane Latiker

Oliver Burkeman: Time Management for Mortals

Resources mentioned this episode

4,000 Weeks by Oliver Burkeman

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130: NSE Thanksgiving Special: No Small Endeavor Live at the Ryman Nov 16, 2023

Every year on the Sunday before Thanksgiving, No Small Endeavor hosts a live variety show in downtown Nashville featuring esteemed musicians and guest speakers.

In 2022, we were joined at the world-famous Ryman Auditorium by Americana duo Johnnyswim and psychiatrist Curt Thompson. It was a night of laughter, story, and song, all to celebrate hospitality, vulnerability, and gratitude. In this episode, we feature some of the highlights from that show.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes

The Power of Being Known: Curt Thompson

Reality TV, The Cuban Revolution, and a Disco Queen Mother: Johnnyswim

Welcome Table: A Thanksgiving Special

Resources mentioned this episode

The Soul of Shame by Curt Thompson

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129: Unabridged Interview: Michael Budde Nov 14, 2023

Should Christians condone war?

There is a long history of debate among Christians regarding the use of violence. Is “turning the other cheek” an excuse to take oppression lying down? Should Christians adhere to national military obligations? Is there such a thing as a “just war,” or is all killing anti-Christian?

Michael Budde has been studying these questions for a long time. In this episode, he discusses why he thinks Christians are called to total non-violence, why nationalism is responsible for many of the church’s historical failings, and what a counter-cultural version of faith might look like.

Show Notes

Similar episodes:

Randall Balmer: Race and the Rise of the Religious Right

Resources mentioned this episode

Just War as Christian Discipleship by Daniel Bell

No Bars to Manhood by Daniel Berrigan

PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes

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129: Michael Budde: Is War Ever Just? Nov 09, 2023

Should Christians condone war?

There is a long history of debate among Christians regarding the use of violence. Is “turning the other cheek” an excuse to take oppression lying down? Should Christians adhere to national military obligations? Is there such a thing as a “just war,” or is all killing anti-Christian?

Michael Budde has been studying these questions for a long time. In this episode, he discusses why he thinks Christians are called to total non-violence, why nationalism is responsible for many of the church’s historical failings, and what a counter-cultural version of faith might look like.

Show Notes

Similar episodes:

Randall Balmer: Race and the Rise of the Religious Right

Resources mentioned this episode

Just War as Christian Discipleship by Daniel Bell

No Bars to Manhood by Daniel Berrigan

PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes

How Celebrity Culture is Hurting the Church: Katelyn Beaty

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128: Unabridged Interview: Jesuitical Nov 07, 2023

This is our unabridged episode with Zac Davis and Ashley McKinless, co-hosts of Jesuitical.

Do young people care about religion?

Zac Davis and Ashley McKinless have good reason to think so. Together, they host the Jesuitical podcast, which explicitly calls itself “a podcast for young Catholics.”

“Most people are left with trying to solve 27-year-old problems with an eighth grade religious formation,” says Zac. The solution, they believe, is not to take one’s religion less seriously, but more.

In this episode, they discuss the landscape of faith for young people in today's culture, as well as some of the pressing issues of abuse and injustice that they believe the Church, and American society at large, must address.

Show Notes

Similar episodes:

Randall Balmer: Race and the Rise of the Religious Right

Resources mentioned this episode:

Jesuitical podcast

PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes

How Celebrity Culture is Hurting the Church: Katelyn Beaty

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128: Jesuitical: How Young Catholics See The World Nov 02, 2023

Do young people care about religion?

Zac Davis and Ashley McKinless have good reason to think so. Together, they host the Jesuitical podcast, which explicitly calls itself “a podcast for young Catholics.”

“Most people are left with trying to solve 27-year-old problems with an eighth grade religious formation,” says Zac. The solution, they believe, is not to take one’s religion less seriously, but more.

In this episode, they discuss the landscape of faith for young people in today's culture, as well as some of the pressing issues of abuse and injustice that they believe the Church, and American society at large, must address.

Show Notes

Similar episodes:

Randall Balmer: Race and the Rise of the Religious Right

Resources mentioned this episode:

Jesuitical podcast

PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes

Transcript Link

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For Your Consideration: The Gist featuring Rainn Wilson and Eric Weiner Nov 01, 2023

Today, we’re sharing a special episode from The Gist—hosted by Mike Pesca.

Rainn Wilson is the host of Peacock's The Geography Of Bliss, based on the book of the same name written by Eric Weiner. Like Weiner before him, Wilson (who played the legendary Dwight Schrute on The Office) travels the world in search of locally sourced happiness secrets. For some reason, Mike gives them both a hard time, and everyone winds up angrier at each other than one might expect from an exploration of bliss.
Mike Pesca has established a seven-year connection to his audience as host of The Gist. For thirty minutes each day, Pesca challenges himself and his audience, in a responsibly provocative style, and gets beyond the rigidity and dogma. The Gist is surprising, reasonable, and willing to critique the left, the right, either party, or any idea.

Listen to more episodes of The Gist and follow the podcast: https://pod.link/873667927

127: Unabridged Interview: Kelly Corrigan Oct 31, 2023

This is our unabridged episode with Kelly Corrigan.

“What percentage of all pain in the world is related to wanting to belong?”

Kelly Corrigan - who you may know as a New York Times bestselling author and the host of a number of popular radio and TV shows - was a young mother of two when she and her beloved father were both diagnosed with cancer. It was, to say the least, an immensely difficult time.

Yet, she found her way through it by relying heavily on her tendency to be vulnerable, rather than hiding her pain from others. “It's just fodder for us to be closer,” she says of her suffering. “The point is to connect.”

In this episode, she shares her story, along with much wisdom gleaned from a life of leaning into vulnerability.

Show Notes

Similar episodes:

Resources mentioned this episode:

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127: Kelly Corrigan: How Vulnerability Leads to Connection Oct 26, 2023

“What percentage of all pain in the world is related to wanting to belong?”

Kelly Corrigan - who you may know as a New York Times bestselling author and the host of a number of popular radio and TV shows - was a young mother of two when she and her beloved father were both diagnosed with cancer. It was, to say the least, an immensely difficult time.

Yet, she found her way through it by relying heavily on her tendency to be vulnerable, rather than hiding her pain from others. “It's just fodder for us to be closer,” she says of her suffering. “The point is to connect.”

In this episode, she shares her story, along with much wisdom gleaned from a life of leaning into vulnerability.

Show Notes

Similar episodes:

Resources mentioned this episode:

Join NSE+ Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows

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126: Unabridged Interview: Jennifer Wiseman Oct 24, 2023

This is our unabridged episode with Jennifer Wiseman.

Astrophysicist Jennifer Wiseman is no stranger to wonder. Spending her days studying the formation of stars and planets, she often finds herself in awe of both the vastness of the universe and its intricate detail. She’s also a practicing Christian, who sees science as complementary rather than contrary to her faith.

And did we mention she discovered a comet while on a college field trip?

In this episode, taped in front of a live audience at Nashville’s Sudekum Planetarium under a projection of images from the James Webb Telescope, she discusses her work and her faith, and how their intersection might give helpful insight about the meaning of our lives.

Show Notes

Similar episodes:

Science, Faith, and Einstein: Alister McGrath

The Francis Collins Interview

The (Not Really) War Between Science and Faith: David Wilkinson

Resources mentioned this episode:

Webb Telescope Website

PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes

Science, Faith, and Einstein: Alister McGrath

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126: Jennifer Wiseman: How Science Produces Wonder Oct 19, 2023

Astrophysicist Jennifer Wiseman is no stranger to wonder. Spending her days studying the formation of stars and planets, she often finds herself in awe of both the vastness of the universe and its intricate detail. She’s also a practicing Christian, who sees science as complementary rather than contrary to her faith.

And did we mention she discovered a comet while on a college field trip?

In this episode, taped in front of a live audience at Nashville’s Sudekum Planetarium under a projection of images from the James Webb Telescope, she discusses her work and her faith, and how their intersection might give helpful insight about the meaning of our lives.

Show Notes

Similar episodes:

The Francis Collins Interview

The (Not Really) War Between Science and Faith: David Wilkinson

Resources mentioned this episode:

Webb Telescope Website

PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes

Transcript

Join NSE+ Our subscriber only community with bonus episodes, ad-free listening, and discounts on live shows

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125: Unabridged Interview: Meghan O'Gieblyn Oct 17, 2023

This is our unabridged interview with Meghan O’Gieblyn.

Are robots going to destroy humanity?

Thanks to the rise and implementation of Artificial Intelligence (AI), the common sci-fi trope of a machine-perpetuated apocalypse has taken on a new gravity in recent days. But is Chat GPT really going to rebel against humans, or even change things very much at all?

“We're at the point where we do have technologies that are incredibly powerful,” says writer and commentator Meghan O’Gieblyn. “They're able to do things that they weren't programmed to do.”

In this episode, Meghan discusses AI in great detail, and lays out what she believes to be the social, political, ethical, and even theological issues at stake as humanity learns to live with new technology.

Show Notes

Similar episodes:

The Most Polarized Issue in the United States: Katharine Hayhoe

Beyond Fake News: Justin McBrayer

Resources mentioned this episode:

Meghan’s website

God, Human, Animal, Machine by Meghan O’Gieblyn

PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes

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125: Meghan O’Gieblyn: Will AI Destroy Humanity? Oct 12, 2023

Are robots going to destroy humanity?

Thanks to the rise and implementation of Artificial Intelligence (AI), the common sci-fi trope of a machine-perpetuated apocalypse has taken on a new gravity in recent days. But is Chat GPT really going to rebel against humans, or even change things very much at all?

“We're at the point where we do have technologies that are incredibly powerful,” says writer and commentator Meghan O’Gieblyn. “They're able to do things that they weren't programmed to do.”

In this episode, Meghan discusses AI in great detail, and lays out what she believes to be the social, political, ethical, and even theological issues at stake as humanity learns to live with new technology.

Show Notes

Similar episodes:

The Most Polarized Issue in the United States: Katharine Hayhoe

Beyond Fake News: Justin McBrayer

Resources mentioned this episode:

Meghan’s website

God, Human, Animal, Machine by Meghan O’Gieblyn

PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes

Transcript

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124: Unabridged Interview: Amy Grant Oct 10, 2023

Five weeks before her 16th birthday in 1976, Amy Grant was offered her first record deal. Now, after tens of millions of record sales, six Grammy awards, a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, and a receipt of Kennedy Center Honors, she is widely recognized as the “Queen of Christian Pop.”

From the outside, one might assume that Amy must be a character with a personality larger than life. But in this exclusive interview, Amy opens up about her career as a singer, her family life, and her faith, all against the backdrop of a troubling past few years which have included recovering from open-heart surgery and a severe bike accident.

Through it all, she showcases what truly makes her an anomaly. In spite of her fame, she remains undoubtedly grounded to a life of quiet, peaceful fulfillment.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes

Truth-telling, Anger, and Race: Vince Gill

“Does This Make My Butt Look Big?”: Ashley Cleveland

Fighting Dragons and Singing at Loss: Drew Holcomb

Resources mentioned this episode

Amy Grant’s website

PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes

Truth-telling, Anger, and Race: Vince Gill

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124: Amy Grant: Fame, Vulnerability, and Staying Grounded Oct 05, 2023

Five weeks before her 16th birthday in 1976, Amy Grant was offered her first record deal. Now, after tens of millions of record sales, six Grammy awards, a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, and a receipt of Kennedy Center Honors, she is widely recognized as the “Queen of Christian Pop.”

From the outside, one might assume that Amy must be a character with a personality larger than life. But in this exclusive interview, Amy opens up about her career as a singer, her family life, and her faith, all against the backdrop of a troubling past few years which have included recovering from open-heart surgery and a severe bike accident.

Through it all, she showcases what truly makes her an anomaly. In spite of her fame, she remains undoubtedly grounded to a life of quiet, peaceful fulfillment.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes

“Does This Make My Butt Look Big?”: Ashley Cleveland

Fighting Dragons and Singing at Loss: Drew Holcomb

Resources mentioned this episode

Amy Grant’s website

PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes

Anatomy of the Soul: Surprising Connections between Neuroscience and Spiritual Practices That Can Transform Your Life and Relationships

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Announcing NSE+ Oct 04, 2023

We’re excited to announce our new subscriber program NSE+, a $5/month subscription including a monthly bonus episode from Lee Camp, designed to give you practical steps based on the conversations we have on No Small Endeavor. PLUS, with a subscription you’ll receive ad-free listening and discounts to our live shows.
This monthly bonus conversation between Lee Camp and producer, Jakob Lewis, highlights practices and habits they have learned from the many guests on the show over the years. They also speak openly and honestly about the many hindrances and struggles they have pursuing a good life. We'll walk you through practices on the podcast and invite you in to participate and share your experiences, to be featured or discussed on NSE+.

JOIN TODAY

123: Unabridged Interview: Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz Oct 03, 2023

This is our unabridged episode with Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz.

For all our modern so-called progress, global happiness levels have been consistently going down, especially in the richest and most developed countries.

So what does it really take to be happy?

Since 1938, Harvard scientists have been closely studying the lives of over 700 individuals to answer that very question. In this episode, two of the scientists who are now in charge of the study - Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz - discuss the results of what is known as the “world’s longest study on happiness,” and describe why they believe that meaningful relationships are the key to living a long, happy, flourishing life.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes

Resources mentioned this episode

The Good Life by Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz
Robert Waldinger’s TED Talk
Bowling Alone by Robert Putnam
WISER tool for relationships: Watch, Interpret, Select, Engage, and Reflect
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link for Abridged Episode

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123: Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz: The Good Life - Lessons from the World’s Longest Study on Happiness (Best of NSE) Sep 28, 2023

For all our modern so-called progress, global happiness levels have been consistently going down, especially in the richest and most developed countries.

So what does it really take to be happy?

Since 1938, Harvard scientists have been closely studying the lives of over 700 individuals to answer that very question. In this episode, two of the scientists who are now in charge of the study - Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz - discuss the results of what is known as the “world’s longest study on happiness,” and describe why they believe that meaningful relationships are the key to living a long, happy, flourishing life.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes

Resources mentioned this episode

The Good Life by Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz
Robert Waldinger’s TED Talk
Bowling Alone by Robert Putnam
WISER tool for relationships: Watch, Interpret, Select, Engage, and Reflect
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link

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122: Unabridged Interview: William Paul Young Sep 26, 2023

This is our unabridged episode with William Paul Young.

At age 50, William Paul Young wrote the New York Times best-selling novel “The Shack” as a gift to his kids—only printing copies for his family and friends. Today, it has sold 25 million copies and been turned into a major motion picture.

11 years prior to writing “The Shack,” Paul’s wife discovered he was having an extra-marital affair. With nothing left to hide, he began a journey toward healing and wholeness: dealing with childhood abuse, religious trauma, a host of broken relationships, and a life of constant, exhausting image-management.

Subsequently, he wrote “The Shack” in an attempt to express the nature of what he calls “Divine Love”. In this episode, Paul shares how love, grace, and healing only happen in the present moment, wisdom he gleaned from seeing his own life saved from the brink of falling apart.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes
Resources mentioned this episode
- The Shack by William Paul Young
- The Body Keeps The Score by Bessel van der Kolk
- PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
- Transcription Link for Abridged Episode

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122: William Paul Young: Author of The Shack (Best of NSE) Sep 21, 2023

At age 50, William Paul Young wrote the New York Times best-selling novel “The Shack” as a gift to his kids—only printing copies for his family and friends. Today, it has sold 25 million copies and been turned into a major motion picture.

11 years prior to writing “The Shack,” Paul’s wife discovered he was having an extra-marital affair. With nothing left to hide, he began a journey toward healing and wholeness: dealing with childhood abuse, religious trauma, a host of broken relationships, and a life of constant, exhausting image-management.

Subsequently, he wrote “The Shack” in an attempt to express the nature of what he calls “Divine Love”. In this episode, Paul shares how love, grace, and healing only happen in the present moment, wisdom he gleaned from seeing his own life saved from the brink of falling apart.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes
Resources mentioned this episode
- The Shack by William Paul Young
- The Body Keeps The Score by Bessel van der Kolk
- PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
- Transcription Link

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121: Unabridged Interview: Esau McCaulley Sep 19, 2023

This is our unabridged interview with Esau McCaulley.

What is it like growing up Black in the American South?

The question is too particular to answer with abstraction. Instead, Esau McCaulley answers it in the most personal, humble way available, by telling the story of his family in his new memoir, “How Far to the Promised Land: One Black Family's Story of Hope and Survival in the American South.”

When he was asked to give the eulogy at his father’s funeral, Esau was sparked to examine his own childhood and dig into his family’s past. In the process, he engaged with the complexity of US history, and its impact on some of the most important questions of our time. In this episode, Esau discusses what he uncovered, and, careful not to generalize, describes what the experience taught him about race, faith, and the culture of the South in the United States.

Show Notes:
Similar episodes
The Architect of the American Civil Rights Movement: James Lawson
Doing Justice Alongside MLK and Rosa Parks: Dr. Fred Gray
Eddie Glaude: On James Baldwin’s America
Thou Shalt Not Be a Jerk: Eugene Cho
White Too Long: Robert Jones
Resources mentioned this episode
How Far to the Promised Land by Esau McCaulley
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link for Abridged Episode

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121: Esau McCaulley: How Far to the Promised Land? Sep 14, 2023

What is it like growing up Black in the American South?

The question is too particular to answer with abstraction. Instead, Esau McCaulley answers it in the most personal, humble way available, by telling the story of his family in his new memoir, “How Far to the Promised Land: One Black Family's Story of Hope and Survival in the American South.”

When he was asked to give the eulogy at his father’s funeral, Esau was sparked to examine his own childhood and dig into his family’s past. In the process, he engaged with the complexity of US history, and its impact on some of the most important questions of our time. In this episode, Esau discusses what he uncovered, and, careful not to generalize, describes what the experience taught him about race, faith, and the culture of the South in the United States.

Show Notes:
Similar episodes
The Architect of the American Civil Rights Movement: James Lawson
Doing Justice Alongside MLK and Rosa Parks: Dr. Fred Gray
Eddie Glaude: On James Baldwin’s America
Thou Shalt Not Be a Jerk: Eugene Cho
White Too Long: Robert Jones
Resources mentioned this episode
How Far to the Promised Land by Esau McCaulley
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link

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120: Unabridged Interview: Eddie Glaude Sep 12, 2023

This is our unabridged interview with Eddie Glaude.

Why are there different narratives around race in the United States?

Some believe that the US is a “shining city on a hill” which stands as a beacon of truth and justice in the world. But those paying attention to the country’s inner conflicts - most notably its violent, graphic history of deep-seated racism - sense some major contradictions in such a narrative. To use the famous words of James Baldwin, such idealism is “The Lie” that the country has been trying to preserve since its inception.

In this episode, Dr. Eddie Glaude discusses his book Begin Again: James Baldwin's America and Its Urgent Lessons for Our Own, which calls for a reckoning for the people and institutions responsible for perpetuating “The Lie,” and offers hopeful counter-truth that he believes can help us reform and reset after the wrongs that have been done.

Show Notes

Similar episodes:

Resources mentioned this episode:

Begin Again: James Baldwin’s America and Its Urgent Lessons for Our Own by Eddie Glaude
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link

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120: Eddie Glaude: On James Baldwin's America (Best of NSE) Sep 07, 2023

Why are there different narratives around race in the United States?

Some believe that the US is a “shining city on a hill” which stands as a beacon of truth and justice in the world. But those paying attention to the country’s inner conflicts - most notably its violent, graphic history of deep-seated racism - sense some major contradictions in such a narrative. To use the famous words of James Baldwin, such idealism is “The Lie” that the country has been trying to preserve since its inception.

In this episode, Dr. Eddie Glaude discusses his book Begin Again: James Baldwin's America and Its Urgent Lessons for Our Own, which calls for a reckoning for the people and institutions responsible for perpetuating “The Lie,” and offers hopeful counter-truth that he believes can help us reform and reset after the wrongs that have been done.

Show Notes

Similar episodes:

Resources mentioned this episode:

Begin Again: James Baldwin’s America and Its Urgent Lessons for Our Own by Eddie Glaude
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link

Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube

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119: Unabridged Interview: David DeSteno Sep 05, 2023

This is our unabridged interview with David Desteno.

Does religion make you happier?

These days, many of us are prone to see religion as an artifact of pre-scientific humanity, full of non-scientific claims. For that reason, religion often gets written off as having no measurable value for everyday life. But what if the so-called goods of religion could be studied?

In his most recent book How God Works, psychologist David DeSteno, suggests that religion has indeed been studied in this way, and that the results could change the way religion is viewed in the public sphere. In this episode, we hear from David as he discusses the ways the world’s great religious traditions line up with cutting-edge psychological and neuroscientific findings - in other words, the ways in which religion leads to a longer, happier, healthier life.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes
The Power of Being Known: Curt Thompson
What Hath Christianity to do with Psychology?: Mark McMinn
The Power of Sabbath Rest: Judith Shulevitz
Seven Ways to Ruin Your Life: Rebecca DeYoung
Resources mentioned this episode
How God Works by David Desteno
How God Works Podcast
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link

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119: David DeSteno: Can Religion Make You Happier? The Surprising Scientific Findings of Ancient Religious Practice (Best of NSE) Aug 31, 2023

Does religion make you happier?

These days, many of us are prone to see religion as an artifact of pre-scientific humanity, full of non-scientific claims. For that reason, religion often gets written off as having no measurable value for everyday life. But what if the so-called goods of religion could be studied?

In his most recent book How God Works, psychologist David DeSteno, suggests that religion has indeed been studied in this way, and that the results could change the way religion is viewed in the public sphere. In this episode, we hear from David as he discusses the ways the world’s great religious traditions line up with cutting-edge psychological and neuroscientific findings - in other words, the ways in which religion leads to a longer, happier, healthier life.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes
The Power of Being Known: Curt Thompson
What Hath Christianity to do with Psychology?: Mark McMinn
The Power of Sabbath Rest: Judith Shulevitz
Seven Ways to Ruin Your Life: Rebecca DeYoung
Resources mentioned this episode
How God Works by David Desteno
How God Works Podcast
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link

Subscribe to episodes: Apple | Spotify | Amazon | Google | YouTube

Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube

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118: Unabridged Interview: Johnnyswim Aug 29, 2023

This is our unabridged interview with Johnnyswim.

What is it like to be a famous musical duo, on the road all the time, and married with kids?

That’s the life of Amanda Sudano and Abner Ramirez, more widely known as folk-pop band Johnnyswim, whose eclectic life is put on full display in their two reality television shows, “The Johnnyswim Show” and “In the Kitchen with Abner + Amanda.” Amanda's mother was the legendary Disco Queen Donna Summer; meanwhile, Abner's family experienced the intense political turmoil of 20th century Cuba, emigrating to the United States in the Mariel Boatlift in 1980.

In this exclusive interview, they discuss everything from family history, to touring life, to activism and faith. Plus, we include their musical performance from a No Small Endeavor show at the Ryman Auditorium in Nashville.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes
Resources mentioned this episode
- Johnnyswim’s Website
- “Ring the Bells” live performance at the Ryman
- PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
- Transcription Link

118: Johnnyswim: Reality TV, The Cuban Revolution, and a Disco Queen Mother (Best of NSE) Aug 24, 2023

What is it like to be a famous musical duo, on the road all the time, and married with kids?

That’s the life of Amanda Sudano and Abner Ramirez, more widely known as folk-pop band Johnnyswim, whose eclectic life is put on full display in their two reality television shows, “The Johnnyswim Show” and “In the Kitchen with Abner + Amanda.” Amanda's mother was the legendary Disco Queen Donna Summer; meanwhile, Abner's family experienced the intense political turmoil of 20th century Cuba, emigrating to the United States in the Mariel Boatlift in 1980.

In this exclusive interview, they discuss everything from family history, to touring life, to activism and faith. Plus, we include their musical performance from a No Small Endeavor show at the Ryman Auditorium in Nashville.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes
Resources mentioned this episode
- Johnnyswim’s Website
- “Ring the Bells” live performance at the Ryman
- PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
- Transcription Link

117: Unabridged Interview: Oliver Burkeman Aug 22, 2023

This is our unabridged interview with Oliver Burkeman.

In an age full of life hacks, self-help books, and productivity gurus, many of us only end up busier and more stressed than we were before. What if there’s a better way to live a full, fruitful life?

"The world is bursting with wonder,” says Oliver Burkeman, “and yet it's the rare productivity guru who seems to have considered the possibility that the ultimate point of all our frenetic doing might be to experience more of that wonder."

In this episode, he discusses his New York Times Bestselling book 4000 Weeks: Time Management for Mortals, dispelling many contemporary ideas about productivity, and instead suggesting a wonder-fueled, counterintuitive method for flourishing in the world.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes:
Seven Ways to Ruin Your Life: Rebecca DeYoung
The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry: John Mark Comer
The Power of Sabbath Rest: Judith Shulevitz
Resources mentioned in this episode
A Testament of Devotion by Thomas Raymond Kelly
Catherine Andrews, "Why You're Going About Recovering from Perfectionism All Wrong"
Man’s Search for Meaning by Victor Frankl
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link

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Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

117: Oliver Burkeman: Time Management for Mortals (Best of NSE) Aug 17, 2023

In an age full of life hacks, self-help books, and productivity gurus, many of us only end up busier and more stressed than we were before. What if there’s a better way to live a full, fruitful life?

"The world is bursting with wonder,” says Oliver Burkeman, “and yet it's the rare productivity guru who seems to have considered the possibility that the ultimate point of all our frenetic doing might be to experience more of that wonder."

In this episode, he discusses his New York Times Bestselling book 4000 Weeks: Time Management for Mortals, dispelling many contemporary ideas about productivity, and instead suggesting a wonder-fueled, counterintuitive method for flourishing in the world.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes:
Seven Ways to Ruin Your Life: Rebecca DeYoung
The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry: John Mark Comer
The Power of Sabbath Rest: Judith Shulevitz
Resources mentioned in this episode
A Testament of Devotion by Thomas Raymond Kelly
Catherine Andrews, "Why You're Going About Recovering from Perfectionism All Wrong"
Man’s Search for Meaning by Victor Frankl
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link

Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube

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Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium

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Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book | Joy & the Good Life Course

Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

116: Unabridged Interview: Charlie Strobel Aug 15, 2023

This is our unabridged interview with Charles Strobel.

On August 6th, 2023, at the age of 80, Charles Strobel, affectionately known as Charlie, left us. Today, we revisit our 2020 interview with him. A true Nashville icon, he was once hailed as "Tennesseean of the Year." As a Catholic priest and the visionary behind Room In The Inn, a Nashville-based non-profit dedicated to offering hospitality, education, community, and employment to those experiencing homelessness, Charlie's impact was immeasurable.

Join us in this special episode where he shares captivating anecdotes from his life, recounting his journey from living among the homeless to founding a shelter for them. He candidly discusses his battles with depression and the transformative power of therapy. Incredibly, he opens up about his journey to forgive the individual who took his mother's life.

Charlie's existence epitomized the essence of a well-lived life, making him an extraordinary example to us all. As we mourn his passing, let's celebrate the legacy he leaves behind.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes
- Ending Violence Through Forgiveness: Azim Khamisa
- Burying 250 Friends: Greg Boyle on Community Amidst Gang Violence
Resources mentioned this episode
- Room In The Inn
- Charlie’s Obituary
Transcription Link for Abridged Episode
PDF of Lee's Interview Notes

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Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

116: Charles Strobel: Remembering a Life Well Lived Aug 10, 2023

On August 6th, 2023, at the age of 80, Charles Strobel, affectionately known as Charlie, left us. Today, we revisit our 2020 interview with him. A true Nashville icon, he was once hailed as "Tennesseean of the Year." As a Catholic priest and the visionary behind Room In The Inn, a Nashville-based non-profit dedicated to offering hospitality, education, community, and employment to those experiencing homelessness, Charlie's impact was immeasurable.

Join us in this special episode where he shares captivating anecdotes from his life, recounting his journey from living among the homeless to founding a shelter for them. He candidly discusses his battles with depression and the transformative power of therapy. Incredibly, he opens up about his journey to forgive the individual who took his mother's life.

Charlie's existence epitomized the essence of a well-lived life, making him an extraordinary example to us all. As we mourn his passing, let's celebrate the legacy he leaves behind.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes
- Ending Violence Through Forgiveness: Azim Khamisa
- Burying 250 Friends: Greg Boyle on Community Amidst Gang Violence
Resources mentioned this episode
- Room In The Inn
- Charlie’s Obituary
Transcription Link
PDF of Lee's Interview Notes

Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube

Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter

Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com

Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium

See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy

Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book | Joy & the Good Life Course

Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

115: Unabridged Interview: Elise Hu Aug 08, 2023

This is our unabridged interview with Elise Hu.

What is beauty, and what role should it play in our lives?

Beauty has long been seen as one the three “transcendentals” (along with truth and goodness) which have been valued at all times, in all places, by all cultures. But these days, the word “beauty” is often equated with standards of bodily presentation that, in an increasingly globalized and technological world, are reachable only by extreme measures of constant labor or cosmetic surgery.

In this episode, Elise asks the question we’re all thinking: is that version of beauty good for us? She discusses her experience in a beauty-obsessed Korean culture, its effects on both women and men, and what a healthy relationship with beauty might look like.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes
- The Price of the Pursuit of Pleasure: Anna Lembke
- Thou Shalt Not Be a Jerk: Eugene Cho
Resources mentioned this episode
- Flawless by Elise Hu
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link for Abridged Episode

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Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

115: Elise Hu: Obsessed With Beauty Aug 03, 2023

What is beauty, and what role should it play in our lives?

Beauty has long been seen as one the three “transcendentals” (along with truth and goodness) which have been valued at all times, in all places, by all cultures. But these days, the word “beauty” is often equated with standards of bodily presentation that, in an increasingly globalized and technological world, are reachable only by extreme measures of constant labor or cosmetic surgery.

In this episode, Elise asks the question we’re all thinking: is that version of beauty good for us? She discusses her experience in a beauty-obsessed Korean culture, its effects on both women and men, and what a healthy relationship with beauty might look like.

Show Notes:
Similar episodes
- The Price of the Pursuit of Pleasure: Anna Lembke
- Thou Shalt Not Be a Jerk: Eugene Cho
Resources mentioned this episode
- Flawless by Elise Hu
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link

Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube

Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter

Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com

Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium

See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy

Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book | Joy & the Good Life Course

Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

114: Unabridged Interview: Tish Harrison Warren Aug 01, 2023

This is our unabridged interview with Tish Harrison Warren.

Does pluralism result in discrimination? Must one choose a political side, either on the Left or the Right? And how can an ordinary life be an exceptional one?

These are all questions involving dichotomies that are commonly presented to us in our culture. But Tish Harrison Warren, an ordained Anglican priest and columnist for the New York Times, sees such dichotomies as false, and has spent her own life’s work breaking them down in whatever ways she can.

In this episode, Tish discusses her experience as a campus minister in the midst of controversy at Vanderbilt University, what it’s like holding convictions while under fire from both sides of the political spectrum, and her award-winning book Liturgy of the Ordinary.

Show Notes:

Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube

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Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium

See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy

Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book | Joy & the Good Life Course

Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

114: Tish Harrison Warren: Beyond Left and Right Jul 26, 2023

Does pluralism result in discrimination? Must one choose a political side, either on the Left or the Right? And how can an ordinary life be an exceptional one?

These are all questions involving dichotomies that are commonly presented to us in our culture. But Tish Harrison Warren, an ordained Anglican priest and columnist for the New York Times, sees such dichotomies as false, and has spent her own life’s work breaking them down in whatever ways she can.

In this episode, Tish discusses her experience as a campus minister in the midst of controversy at Vanderbilt University, what it’s like holding convictions while under fire from both sides of the political spectrum, and her award-winning book Liturgy of the Ordinary.

Show Notes:

Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube

Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter

Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com

Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium

See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy

Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book | Joy & the Good Life Course

Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

113: Unabridged Interview: Angela Duckworth Jul 25, 2023

This is our unabridged interview with Angela Duckworth.

What do Olympic athletes, world-class artists, elite academics, and successful business executives have in common?

Ivy League psychologist Angela Duckworth has spent her career researching this question, closely studying those folks at the top of their respective fields who are considered “high achievers.”

Surprisingly, it turns out talent is not the answer. Neither is genius. “The common denominator,” she says, “is grit.”

In this episode, she explains what she means by “grit,” discusses why it is such a crucial determinant for success, and offers highly practical methods for developing grit in one’s own life.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes
- Time Management for Mortals: Oliver Burkeman
- What it Takes to Live a Good Life: Meghan Sullivan
Resources mentioned this episode
- Grit by Angela Duckworth
- Character Lab
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link for Abridged Episode

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Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book | Joy & the Good Life Course

Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

113: Angela Duckworth: Is Grit the Secret to Success? Jul 20, 2023

What do Olympic athletes, world-class artists, elite academics, and successful business executives have in common?

Ivy League psychologist Angela Duckworth has spent her career researching this question, closely studying those folks at the top of their respective fields who are considered “high achievers.”

Surprisingly, it turns out talent is not the answer. Neither is genius. “The common denominator,” she says, “is grit.”

In this episode, she explains what she means by “grit,” discusses why it is such a crucial determinant for success, and offers highly practical methods for developing grit in one’s own life.

Show Notes:

- Similar episodes
- Time Management for Mortals: Oliver Burkeman
- What it Takes to Live a Good Life: Meghan Sullivan
Resources mentioned this episode
- Grit by Angela Duckworth
- Character Lab
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link

Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube

Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter

Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com

Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium

See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy

Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book | Joy & the Good Life Course

Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

112: Unabridged Interview: Parker Palmer (Part II) Jul 17, 2023

This is Part II of our unabridged interview with Parker Palmer.

“Things didn’t come together vocationally for me until I was 50.”

Now 84 years old, Quaker writer, speaker, and activist Parker Palmer has much to say about living a good life. And in his experience, a good life is often hard-won and counterintuitive.

In this episode, Parker covers a lot of ground, offering wisdom gleaned from a life lived at attention to the makings of a good life. He tells about his experience seeking and finding vocation, discovering how a rich life entails the embrace of paradox, and living through two major bouts of depression which gave him an increased attention to life’s small things.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes
- Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen
- Author of The Shack: William Paul Young
Resources mentioned this episode
- Let Your Life Speak by Parker Palmer
- The Courage to Teach by Parker Palmer
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link for Abridged Episode

Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube

Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter

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Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

112: Unabridged Interview: Parker Palmer (Part I) Jul 15, 2023

This is Part I of our unabridged interview with Parker Palmer.

“Things didn’t come together vocationally for me until I was 50.”

Now 84 years old, Quaker writer, speaker, and activist Parker Palmer has much to say about living a good life. And in his experience, a good life is often hard-won and counterintuitive.

In this episode, Parker covers a lot of ground, offering wisdom gleaned from a life lived at attention to the makings of a good life. He tells about his experience seeking and finding vocation, discovering how a rich life entails the embrace of paradox, and living through two major bouts of depression which gave him an increased attention to life’s small things.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes
- Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen
- Author of The Shack: William Paul Young
Resources mentioned this episode
- Let Your Life Speak by Parker Palmer
- The Courage to Teach by Parker Palmer
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link for Abridged Episode

Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube

Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter

Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com

Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium

See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy

Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book | Joy & the Good Life Course

Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

112: Parker Palmer: Courage, Vocation, and Paradox Jul 13, 2023

“Things didn’t come together vocationally for me until I was 50.”

Now 84 years old, Quaker writer, speaker, and activist Parker Palmer has much to say about living a good life. And in his experience, a good life is often hard-won and counterintuitive.

In this episode, Parker covers a lot of ground, offering wisdom gleaned from a life lived at attention to the makings of a good life. He tells about his experience seeking and finding vocation, discovering how a rich life entails the embrace of paradox, and living through two major bouts of depression which gave him an increased attention to life’s small things.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes
- Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen
- Author of The Shack: William Paul Young
Resources mentioned this episode
- Let Your Life Speak by Parker Palmer
- The Courage to Teach by Parker Palmer
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link

Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube

Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter

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Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium

See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy

Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book | Joy & the Good Life Course

Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

111: Unabridged Interview: Judith Moskowitz Jul 11, 2023

This is our unabridged interview with Judith Moskowitz.

Stress, they say, is a silent killer.

It sometimes feels as if our culture, all the way down to its very economic and social structures, is oriented toward increasing stress levels. Then add the challenges of various common life events–death of a loved one, losing a job, going through divorce – and sooner or later, overwhelming stress seems to come for us all.

But might there be a way for us to flourish when stress hits us?

Social psychologist Judith Moskowitz has dedicated her life’s work to answering this question. In this episode, she shares her findings after years of studying those who are dealing with acute stress, and describes why finding small ways to increase “positive emotion” can be a crucial tool for navigating one’s stress.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes
- Self-Compassion: Kristin Neff
- Gretchen Rubin: The Happiness Project
Resources mentioned this episode
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link for Abridged Episode

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Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter

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Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

111: Judith Moskowitz: How to Flourish Amidst Stress Jul 06, 2023

Stress, they say, is a silent killer.

It sometimes feels as if our culture, all the way down to its very economic and social structures, is oriented toward increasing stress levels. Then add the challenges of various common life events–death of a loved one, losing a job, going through divorce – and sooner or later, overwhelming stress seems to come for us all.

But might there be a way for us to flourish when stress hits us?

Social psychologist Judith Moskowitz has dedicated her life’s work to answering this question. In this episode, she shares her findings after years of studying those who are dealing with acute stress, and describes why finding small ways to increase “positive emotion” can be a crucial tool for navigating one’s stress.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes
- Self-Compassion: Kristin Neff
- Gretchen Rubin: The Happiness Project
Resources mentioned this episode
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link

Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube

Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter

Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com

Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium

See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy

Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book | Joy & the Good Life Course

Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

110: Unabridged Interview: Gretchen Rubin Jul 01, 2023

This is our unabridged interview with Gretchen Rubin.

What does it take to be happy?

Our show is often over-academic in its approach to such questions. But what if there was a way to discover answers that work without bothering too much about definitions, drawn-out studies, and the search for a one-size-fits-all objectivity?

In other words, what if the path to happiness includes some personal experimentation, fueled by good old fashioned trial and error?

In this episode, Gretchen Rubin describes what she called “The Happiness Project,” a year-long process of trying various highly practical methods of increasing her happiness: joining book clubs, giving warm hellos and goodbyes, learning one’s own sleep preferences, reducing clutter, and trying every flavor of ice cream. “Spoiler alert,” she says. “It did make me happier.”

Show Notes:

Similar episodes
- What it Takes to Live a Good Life: Meghan Sullivan
Resources mentioned this episode
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link for Abridged Episode

Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube

Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter

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Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium

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Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book | Joy & the Good Life Course

Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

110: Gretchen Rubin: The Happiness Project Jun 29, 2023

What does it take to be happy?

Our show is often over-academic in its approach to such questions. But what if there was a way to discover answers that work without bothering too much about definitions, drawn-out studies, and the search for a one-size-fits-all objectivity?

In other words, what if the path to happiness includes some personal experimentation, fueled by good old fashioned trial and error?

In this episode, Gretchen Rubin describes what she called “The Happiness Project,” a year-long process of trying various highly practical methods of increasing her happiness: joining book clubs, giving warm hellos and goodbyes, learning one’s own sleep preferences, reducing clutter, and trying every flavor of ice cream. “Spoiler alert,” she says. “It did make me happier.”

Show Notes:

Similar episodes
- What it Takes to Live a Good Life: Meghan Sullivan
Resources mentioned this episode
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link

Follow Us: Instagram | Twitter | Facebook | YouTube

Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter

Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com

Become a Member: Virtual Only | Standard | Premium

See Privacy Policy: Privacy Policy

Shop No Small Endeavor Merch: Scandalous Witness Course | Scandalous Witness Book | Joy & the Good Life Course

Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

109: Unabridged Interview: Rainn Wilson Jun 24, 2023

This is our unabridged interview with Rainn Wilson.

Bears, beets, Battlestar Galactica… and spirituality?

Rainn Wilson is known for playing beloved misfit, paper salesman, and beet farmer Dwight Schrute on the hit TV show The Office. But in Hollywood, he’s known for being a bit of a misfit in another way… he frequently talks about religion in public.

Recently, he wrote a book called 'Soul Boom' in which he calls for a spiritual revolution. “We've thrown the spiritual baby out with the religious bathwater,” he says, “but spiritual ideas helped transform my life and made my life better, and the stakes have never been higher.”

In this episode, he discusses his upbringing in the Bahá'í faith, how his career as an actor and comedian in Hollywood took a dire toll on his mental health, and how a return to spirituality gave him the tools to begin living a happy, flourishing life.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes
- Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen
- The Road to Character: David Brooks
Resources mentioned this episode
- Soul Boom by Rainn Wilson
- Laughing Matters Documentary
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link for Abridged Episode

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Amazon Affiliate Disclosure: Tokens Media, LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

109: Rainn Wilson: Dwight Schrute Talks About Religion Jun 22, 2023

Bears, beets, Battlestar Galactica… and spirituality?

Rainn Wilson is known for playing beloved misfit, paper salesman, and beet farmer Dwight Schrute on the hit TV show The Office. But in Hollywood, he’s known for being a bit of a misfit in another way… he frequently talks about religion in public.

Recently, he wrote a book called 'Soul Boom' in which he calls for a spiritual revolution. “We've thrown the spiritual baby out with the religious bathwater,” he says, “but spiritual ideas helped transform my life and made my life better, and the stakes have never been higher.”

In this episode, he discusses his upbringing in the Bahá'í faith, how his career as an actor and comedian in Hollywood took a dire toll on his mental health, and how a return to spirituality gave him the tools to begin living a happy, flourishing life.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes
- Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen
- The Road to Character: David Brooks
Resources mentioned this episode
- Soul Boom by Rainn Wilson
- Laughing Matters Documentary
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link

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108: Unabridged Interview: Judith Shulevitz Jun 17, 2023

This is our unabridged interview with Judith Shulevitz

Why would anybody want to practice Sabbath?

Over a decade ago, Judith Shulevitz wrote a book called 'The Sabbath World: Glimpses of a Different Order of Time.' Before most of us had smartphones and remote jobs, she was calling attention to the troubling trajectory of an increasingly productivity-focused western culture. In a few years, she argued, we would simply be working all the time.

Her prediction, it seems, has come true. The ramping up of 24/7 industry, news, and entertainment has created a baseline busyness unlike any in human history. But what if it’s doing more harm than good?

What if, to live a good life, we need to rest, even if it comes at a cost?

In this episode, Judith discusses how we got here, and why the ancient practice of Sabbath might help us re-establish a healthy relationship to time and to each other.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes
Resources mentioned this episode
- The Sabbath World by Judith Shulevitz
- The Rainbow by D.H. Lawrence
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link For Abridged Episode

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108: The Power of Sabbath Rest: Judith Shulevitz Jun 15, 2023

Why would anybody want to practice Sabbath?

Over a decade ago, Judith Shulevitz wrote a book called 'The Sabbath World: Glimpses of a Different Order of Time.' Before most of us had smartphones and remote jobs, she was calling attention to the troubling trajectory of an increasingly productivity-focused western culture. In a few years, she argued, we would simply be working all the time.

Her prediction, it seems, has come true. The ramping up of 24/7 industry, news, and entertainment has created a baseline busyness unlike any in human history. But what if it’s doing more harm than good?

What if, to live a good life, we need to rest, even if it comes at a cost?

In this episode, Judith discusses how we got here, and why the ancient practice of Sabbath might help us re-establish a healthy relationship to time and to each other.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes
Resources mentioned this episode
- The Sabbath World by Judith Shulevitz
- The Rainbow by D.H. Lawrence
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link

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107: Unabridged Interview: Azim Khamisa Jun 10, 2023

This is our unabridged interview with Azim Khamisa

How do you forgive the man who killed your son?

In 1995, Azim Khamisa’s only son Tariq was shot and killed while delivering a pizza. The killer was a 14-year-old gang member named Tony Hicks, and due to a recent change of law in the state of California, Tony was tried as an adult and sentenced to 25 years in prison.

But instead of responding with a call for outrage or revenge, Azim did the unthinkable: he forgave his son’s killer, fought for his release, then gave him a job.

“My interpretation of this tragedy was that there are victims at both ends of the gun,” he says. In this episode, he tells the full story of how he uses his experience to help end youth violence, even recruiting his son’s killer to join in the work. It is one of unimaginable grief, staunch faith, and unwavering compassion.

Show Notes:

Similar Episodes
- Forgiving My Mother’s Murderer: Sharon Risher
- Burying 250 Friends: Greg Boyle on Community Amidst Gang Violence
Resources mentioned this episode
- TKF.org
- AzimKhamisa.com
- Email Azim: azim@azimkhamisa.com
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link For Abridged Episode

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107: Ending Violence Through Forgiveness: Azim Khamisa Jun 08, 2023

How do you forgive the man who killed your son?

In 1995, Azim Khamisa’s only son Tariq was shot and killed while delivering a pizza. The killer was a 14-year-old gang member named Tony Hicks, and due to a recent change of law in the state of California, Tony was tried as an adult and sentenced to 25 years in prison.

But instead of responding with a call for outrage or revenge, Azim did the unthinkable: he forgave his son’s killer, fought for his release, then gave him a job.

“My interpretation of this tragedy was that there are victims at both ends of the gun,” he says. In this episode, he tells the full story of how he uses his experience to help end youth violence, even recruiting his son’s killer to join in the work. It is one of unimaginable grief, staunch faith, and unwavering compassion.

Show Notes:

Similar Episodes
- Forgiving My Mother’s Murderer: Sharon Risher
- Burying 250 Friends: Greg Boyle on Community Amidst Gang Violence
Resources mentioned this episode
- TKF.org
- AzimKhamisa.com
- Email Azim: azim@azimkhamisa.com
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link

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106: Unabridged Interview: Martin Sheen Jun 03, 2023

This is our unabridged interview with Martin Sheen.

In this episode, Lee sits down with the former President of the United States…

At least, that’s how many listeners may know Martin Sheen, an award-winning actor known for his roles in Apocalypse Now and The Departed, and perhaps most famously for playing President Jed Bartlet in the hit TV series The West Wing.

But offscreen, Martin is perhaps best described as a committed Catholic with a beautiful conversion story, and an ardent peace activist who has been arrested over 60 times. In this episode, he tells his whole story, full of humor and grace, all the way from his childhood in Ohio to his acting career, his coming to faith, and much more.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes
- The Architect of The American Civil Rights Movement: James Lawson
- Taking the Beatitudes Seriously: John Dear
Resources mentioned this episode
- The West Wing Cathedral Scene
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link For Abridged Episode

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106: Actor and Activist: Martin Sheen Jun 01, 2023

In this episode, Lee sits down with the former President of the United States…

At least, that’s how many listeners may know Martin Sheen, an award-winning actor known for his roles in Apocalypse Now and The Departed, and perhaps most famously for playing President Jed Bartlet in the hit TV series The West Wing.

But offscreen, Martin is perhaps best described as a committed Catholic with a beautiful conversion story, and an ardent peace activist who has been arrested over 60 times. In this episode, he tells his whole story, full of humor and grace, all the way from his childhood in Ohio to his acting career, his coming to faith, and much more.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes
- The Architect of The American Civil Rights Movement: James Lawson
- Taking the Beatitudes Seriously: John Dear
Resources mentioned this episode
- The West Wing Cathedral Scene
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link

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105: Unabridged Interview: Kristin Du Mez and David French May 27, 2023

This is the unabridged Interview of Lee's conversation with Kristin Du Mez and David French.

What happens when one of the country’s most outspoken critics of white male Christian political conservatism sits down with… well, a white male Christian political conservative?

The answer: a really great conversation about politics, culture, and the desperate need for hospitality in the digital age.

“With the decline of traditional media, everything's a competition for clicks,” says Kristin Du Mez, author of New York Times bestseller Jesus and John Wayne. She’s joined by David French, senior editor for the Dispatch and contributing writer to The Atlantic, to discuss their roles as public cultural commentators, how they choose their battles, how they deal with criticism, and the hard work of critiquing one’s own tribe in the age of political tribalism.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes
Resources mentioned this episode
- Jesus and John Wayne by Kristin Du Mez
- Tim Alberta's Atlantic article - 'How Politics Poisoned The Evangelical Church'
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription of abridged episode

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105: Kristin Du Mez Sits with David French (Best Of NSE) May 25, 2023

What happens when one of the country’s most outspoken critics of white male Christian political conservatism sits down with… well, a white male Christian political conservative?

The answer: a really great conversation about politics, culture, and the desperate need for hospitality in the digital age.

“With the decline of traditional media, everything's a competition for clicks,” says Kristin Du Mez, author of New York Times bestseller Jesus and John Wayne. She’s joined by David French, senior editor for the Dispatch and contributing writer to The Atlantic, to discuss their roles as public cultural commentators, how they choose their battles, how they deal with criticism, and the hard work of critiquing one’s own tribe in the age of political tribalism.

Show Notes:

Similar episodes
Resources mentioned this episode
- Jesus and John Wayne by Kristin Du Mez
- Tim Alberta's Atlantic article - 'How Politics Poisoned The Evangelical Church'
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription

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104: Unabridged Interview: Greg Boyle May 20, 2023

This is the unabridged interview with Greg Boyle.

How do you reteach love to a community that society has deemed unloveable?

In the 80s and 90s, the city of Los Angeles was ravaged by what is now known as the "decade of death," a period of unprecedented gang violence, peaking at 1,000 killings in 1992 alone. It was in the midst of this unrest, fear, and finger-pointing that Father Greg Boyle became pastor of the poorest Catholic parish in the city, in order to live and work among gang members.

This eventually led him to start Homeboy Industries, which is now the largest gang-member rehabilitation and re-entry program in the world. In this episode, he tells some breathtaking stories, offering wisdom from a life lived in community with those who society neglects: “You don't go to the margins to make a difference. You go so the folks at the margins make you different.”

Show Notes:
- Taking the Beatitudes Seriously: John Dear
- The Power of Being Known: Curt Thompson
- The Facts of Life: Pádraig Ó Tuama
- Similar episodes
Resources mentioned this episode
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes

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104: Burying 250 Friends: Greg Boyle on Community Amidst Gang Violence (Best of NSE) May 18, 2023

How do you reteach love to a community that society has deemed unloveable?

In the 80s and 90s, the city of Los Angeles was ravaged by what is now known as the "decade of death," a period of unprecedented gang violence, peaking at 1,000 killings in 1992 alone. It was in the midst of this unrest, fear, and finger-pointing that Father Greg Boyle became pastor of the poorest Catholic parish in the city, in order to live and work among gang members.

This eventually led him to start Homeboy Industries, which is now the largest gang-member rehabilitation and re-entry program in the world. In this episode, he tells some breathtaking stories, offering wisdom from a life lived in community with those who society neglects: “You don't go to the margins to make a difference. You go so the folks at the margins make you different.”

Show Notes:
- Similar episodes
- Taking the Beatitudes Seriously: John Dear
- The Power of Being Known: Curt Thompson
- The Facts of Life: Pádraig Ó Tuama
Resources mentioned this episode
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link

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103: Unabridged Interview: Ben Cohen of Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream May 13, 2023

This is our unabridged interview with Ben Cohen of Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream

Show Notes:
- Similar episodes
- Peace, Justice, Ice Cream: Ben Cohen
- Man Shall Not Live by Profit Alone: Jay Jakub
- The Business of War: Justin Barringer
- Resources mentioned this episode
- Above the Law by Ben Cohen
- PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes

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103: Ben and Jerry's and a Better Capitalism: Ben Cohen and Jay Jakub May 11, 2023

Is business just for making money?

Famed economist Milton Friedman once argued in favor of such a view, and his economic theory has been the teaching basis for the last 50 years of American capitalism.

But Ben Cohen, co-founder of world-famous Ben and Jerry’s Ice Cream, thinks differently. In this episode, he discusses how he and Jerry found groundbreaking ways to go against the grain of the business world, giving away unprecedented amounts of profit, incorporating justice work into their company’s workflow, and speaking out in public against corruption. Also, economist Jay Jakub explains why profit-centered Capitalism is destined to fail, and what it might look like for a business to take a more holistic view of capital.

- Show Notes:

Similar episodes
- Peace, Justice, Ice Cream: Ben Cohen
- Man Shall Not Live by Profit Alone: Jay Jakub
- The Business of War: Justin Barringer
- Resources mentioned this episode
Above the Law by Ben Cohen
- PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
- Transcription Link

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102: Unabridged Interview: Anna Lembke May 06, 2023

Our culture is brimming with wealth, upward social mobility, and endless access to massive hits of dopamine-fueled pleasure. So why are we still so unhappy?

Access to pleasure is greater than ever in industrialized nations, and yet those same nations are seeing frightening rises in depression, anxiety, and “deaths of despair". In this episode, Anna Lembke, author of New York Times bestseller 'Dopamine Nation,' discusses why a life of endless, fast-paced pleasure seeking always comes at a cost, and what might be done in the midst of such an epidemic.

Show Notes:
- Similar episodes
- The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry: John Mark Comer
- Resources mentioned this episode
- Dopamine Nation by Anna Lembke
- Lee's Interview Notes
- Anna Lembke

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102: The Price of the Pursuit of Pleasure: Anna Lembke and John Mark Comer (Best of NSE) May 04, 2023

Our culture is brimming with wealth, upward social mobility, and endless access to massive hits of dopamine-fueled pleasure. So why are we still so unhappy?

Access to pleasure is greater than ever in industrialized nations, and yet those same nations are seeing frightening rises in depression, anxiety, and “deaths of despair". In this episode, Anna Lembke, author of New York Times bestseller 'Dopamine Nation,' and John Mark Comer, author of New York Times bestseller 'The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry,' discuss why a life of endless, fast-paced pleasure seeking always comes at a cost, and what might be done in the midst of such an epidemic.

Show Notes:
- Similar episodes
- The Price of the Pursuit of Pleasure: Anna Lembke
- The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry: John Mark Comer
Resources mentioned this episode
- Dopamine Nation by Anna Lembke
- The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry by John Mark Comer
Lee's Interview Notes
- Anna Lembke
- John Mark Comer
Transcription Link

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101: Unabridged Interview: David Hemenway Apr 29, 2023

This is the unabridged interview with David Hemenway.

After consistently eclipsing all other countries in the number of mass shootings per year, why is America still so obsessed with guns? And in the face of such a polarizing issue, what can be done to stop the killing?

“A lot of people think we have a violence problem, but it doesn't seem to be the case; but where we are different is in terms of guns,” says Dr. David Hemenway of Harvard University’s Injury Control Research Center. He makes the case for a public health approach which treats gun violence as an epidemic to be mitigated through practical long-term solutions.

Show Notes:
- Similar episodes
- Taking the Beatitudes Seriously: John Dear
- Forgiving my Mother’s Murderer: Sharon Risher
- Guns, Economics, Public Health: David Hemenway
- God and Guns: Chris Hays and Carly Crouch
- Resources mentioned this episode
- Private Guns, Public Health by David Hemenway

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101: America’s Gun Epidemic: David Hemenway, Chris Hays, Carly Crouch, and Diane Latiker Apr 27, 2023

After consistently eclipsing all other countries in the number of mass shootings per year, why is America still so obsessed with guns? And in the face of such a polarizing issue, what can be done to stop the killing?

“A lot of people think we have a violence problem, but it doesn't seem to be the case; but where we are different is in terms of guns,” says Dr. David Hemenway of Harvard University’s Injury Control Research Center. He makes the case for a public health approach which treats gun violence as an epidemic to be mitigated through practical long-term solutions.

In addition, Professors Chris Hays and Carly Crouch of Fuller Theological Seminary discuss their book 'God and Guns', examining the presumed correlation between American Christianity and support of gun ownership. To close, Diane Latiker shares what peacemaking might look like on the ground in the face of such bleak realities.

Show Notes:
- Similar episodes
- Taking the Beatitudes Seriously: John Dear
- Forgiving my Mother’s Murderer: Sharon Risher
- Guns, Economics, Public Health: David Hemenway
- God and Guns: Chris Hays and Carly Crouch
- Resources mentioned this episode
- Private Guns, Public Health by David Hemenway
- God and Guns by Chris Hays and Carly Crouch
- Transcription Link

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100: Healing The Earth: Debra Rienstra Apr 20, 2023

What on God’s green earth does climate change have to do with living a good life?

To answer such a question, says author and professor Debra Rienstra, we must first ask a more basic one: what is the good life? “We have assumed that it is affluence and upward mobility,” she says, “but that good life is not sustainable.” If a good life is one of purpose and healing, then it is precisely the Western ideal of success that is eating away our ability to live good lives. In this episode, we discuss her book Refugia Faith, in which she makes the argument that “the created world is not just our grocery store and sewer,” and that to live a good life, we must care for the planet on which the good life takes place.

Similar episodes
- The Collapse of the Biosphere: Peter Harris
Resources mentioned in this episode
- A Rocha International
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link

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99: Unabridged Interview: John Dear Apr 15, 2023

The unabridged interview version of Lee's interview with John Dear

How do you live a good life in a world of 30 wars, 13,000 nuclear weapons, 4 billion people in poverty, racism, gun violence, child hunger, and catastrophic climate change?

This is the question posed by Catholic priest and activist John Dear. For years, Father Dear has taken part in peace movements alongside folks like Coretta King, Thich Nhat Hanh, and Desmond tutu. In this episode, he has some unbelievable stories that answer his question in a provocative way: “To do the good means to stop the killing. You cannot be a Christian and support war, or killing, or nuclear weapons. Jesus was totally non-violent; if you want to be a Christian, you have to be totally non-violent too.”

Show Notes:
- The Architect of the American Civil Rights Movement: James Lawson
- The Business of War: Justin Barringer
- German Catholics and Hitler’s Wars by Gordon Zahn
- Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl
- The Nonviolent Life by John Dear
- The Beatitudes Center
- John Dear’s website
- Similar episodes
- Resources mentioned this episode
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link

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99: Taking the Beatitudes Seriously: John Dear Apr 13, 2023

How do you live a good life in a world of 30 wars, 13,000 nuclear weapons, 4 billion people in poverty, racism, gun violence, child hunger, and catastrophic climate change?

This is the question posed by Catholic priest and activist John Dear. For years, Father Dear has taken part in peace movements alongside folks like Coretta King, Thich Nhat Hanh, and Desmond tutu. In this episode, he has some unbelievable stories that answer his question in a provocative way: “To do the good means to stop the killing. You cannot be a Christian and support war, or killing, or nuclear weapons. Jesus was totally non-violent; if you want to be a Christian, you have to be totally non-violent too.”

Show Notes:
- The Architect of the American Civil Rights Movement: James Lawson
- The Business of War: Justin Barringer
- German Catholics and Hitler’s Wars by Gordon Zahn
- Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl
- The Nonviolent Life by John Dear
- The Beatitudes Center
- John Dear’s website
- Similar episodes
- Resources mentioned this episode
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Transcription Link

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82: Rebroadcast - Doing Justice at The People’s Plaza: Justin Jones Apr 11, 2023

We wanted to rebroadcast our interview with Justin Jones. Recently Justin was one of two Black lawmakers in the Tennessee House who were expelled for breaking decorum. You can watch the video of the debate and vote to expel them here. Since Justin is now the national face of a movement to end gun violence and racial discrimination we thought our interview might help provide some context to the man in the headlines.

This is a rebroadcast from before the name change to No Small Endeavor when the show was called Tokens.

“Justice is what love looks like in public.” In this episode, Justin Jones discusses how his work for justice, particularly during a 62-day non-violent protest outside the Tennessee State Capitol, is itself an act of faith, steeped in self-denying love.

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91: The Power of Being Known: Curt Thompson (Best of NSE) Apr 06, 2023

What does one’s past have to do with their anger and anxiety in the present? What do our bodies remember that our minds don’t? And what do our brains want more than chocolate, sex, or a sports car?

Psychiatrist Curt Thompson discusses these questions from the perspective of both brain science and theology. A psychiatrist in private practice, Dr. Thompson has expertise in interpersonal neurobiology, and contends that a key to living a good life comes quite simply to this: “being known.” Lee and Curt discuss two of Curt’s books, “The Anatomy of the Soul” and “The Soul of Desire,” with conversation on trauma and anxiety, connection and community, and why people need each other to be fully themselves.

Show Notes:
- Similar episodes
- The Price of the Pursuit of Pleasure: Anna Lembke
- The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry: John Mark Comer
- What Hath Christianity to do with Psychology? Mark McMinn
- The Soul of Shame: Curt Thompson
- Resources mentioned this episode
- The Anatomy of the Soul by Curt Thompson
- The Soul of Desire by Curt Thompson
- Being Known Podcast
- PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes (coming soon)
- Transcription Link

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98: The Good life - Lessons From The World's Longest Scientific Study Of Happiness: Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz Mar 30, 2023

For all our modern so-called progress, global happiness levels have been consistently going down, especially in the richest and most developed countries. So what does it really take to be happy?

Since 1938, Harvard scientists have been closely studying the lives of over 700 individuals to answer that very question. In this episode, two of those scientists - Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz - discuss the surprising results of what is known as the “World’s Longest Study of Happiness,” and why they are consistently finding that meaningful relationships are the key to living a long, happy, flourishing life.

Show Notes:
- Similar episodes
- Interview with Kristin Du Mez
- Resources mentioned this episode
- Robert Waldinger’s TED Talk
- WISER tool for relationships: Watch, Interpret, Select, Engage, and Reflect
- Bowling Alone by Robert Putnam
- PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
- Transcription Link

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97: How Celebrity Culture is Hurting the Church: Katelyn Beaty Mar 23, 2023

Christian culture in our day is full of superstars: authors, athletes, media personas, and even pastors with millions of followers and fans. Their success, and the devotion they receive, often rivals that of their secular counterparts. But what if such fame actually does more harm than good?

Today, Katleyn Beaty explores this question at length, discussing how Christianity became an arena for celebrity, and why a celebrity-based culture makes little room for the traditional Christian virtues of humility, poverty, and accountability.

Similar episodes

Interview with Kristin Du Mez

Resources mentioned this episode

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96: Time Management for Mortals: Oliver Burkeman Mar 16, 2023

We live in an age full of lifehacks, self-help books, and productivity gurus. But for all of the tips and tricks we adopt in order to squeeze every ounce of production out of our days, many of us only end up busier and more stressed than we were before. What if there’s a better way to live a full, fruitful life?

"The world is bursting with wonder,” says Oliver Burkeman, “and yet it's the rare productivity guru who seems to have considered the possibility that the ultimate point of all our frenetic doing might be to experience more of that wonder." In this episode, he discusses his New York Times Bestselling book 4000 Weeks: Time Management for Mortals, dispelling many contemporary ideas about productivity, and instead suggesting a wonder-fueled, counterintuitive method for flourishing in the world.

Similar episodes:

Interview with Rebecca DeYoung

Resources mentioned in this episode:

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95: Unabridged Interview: James Lawson Mar 11, 2023

***This is the special release of the unabridged interview with American Civil Rights hero Reverend James Lawson. You can find the normal shorter produced version in our podcast feed.

The American Civil Rights Movement, like Gandhi's Indian Independence Movement, was famously set apart by its employment of non-violent resistance methods. But have you ever wondered how such a movement was possible on so large a scale?

In this episode, we are honored to have the man who Martin Luther King Jr. called friend, mentor, and the very conscience and architect of the Civil Rights movement: Reverend James Lawson. He discusses America’s past and present, and what it took to organize a whole population across the country to fight back without throwing a punch. “We started the public desegregation of the nation,” he says, “and we did it without hating anybody.”

Show Notes:
- Resources mentioned this episode
- Fellowship Of Reconciliation (F.O.R.)
- Rev. James Lawson’s Church Holman United Methodist
- PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
- Transcription Link

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95: The Architect of The American Civil Rights Movement: James Lawson Mar 09, 2023

The American Civil Rights Movement, like Gandhi's Indian Independence Movement, was famously set apart by its employment of non-violent resistance methods. But have you ever wondered how such a movement was possible on so large a scale?

In this episode, we are honored to have the man who Martin Luther King Jr. called friend, mentor, and the very conscience and architect of the Civil Rights movement: Reverend James Lawson. He discusses America’s past and present, and what it took to organize a whole population across the country to fight back without throwing a punch. “We started the public desegregation of the nation,” he says, “and we did it without hating anybody.”

Show Notes:
- Resources mentioned this episode
- Fellowship Of Reconciliation (F.O.R.)
- Rev. James Lawson’s Church Holman United Methodist
- PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
- Transcription Link

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94: What It Takes to Live a Good Life: Meghan Sullivan Mar 02, 2023

What does it mean to live a good life, and how do we start?

On our show, we make it a habit of repeating our tagline: “Exploring what it means to live a good life.” But in this episode, we address the issue head-on like never before, with the help of Notre Dame Professor of Philosophy Meghan Sullivan. We discuss her book “The Good Life Method,” which gives helpful insight about the kinds of questions philosophers and theologians have been asking for millennia: What does it mean to pursue a life worth living? What sort of end ought we keep in mind in all our doing and living and being? And how might we get there?

Show Notes:
- On Bullshit by Harry G Frankfurt
- William James’ essay “The Will To Believe”
- PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
- Transcription Link

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93: Author Of The Shack: William Paul Young Feb 23, 2023

Author of The Shack, William Paul Young, joins us on this episode of No Small Endeavor. At age 50, William Paul Young wrote the New York Times Best-selling novel “The Shack.” It went on to sell 25 million copies and was turned into a major motion picture. 11 years prior, Paul’s wife discovered he was having an extra-marital affair. With nothing left to hide, he began a journey toward healing and wholeness: dealing with his being abused as a child, dealing with the toxic “snow covered dung” theology of his inherited religious tradition; and his quest for control of his own image-management and the world around him. Subsequently, he wrote “The Shack” at age 50 for his 6 kids to express to them the nature of what he calls “Divine Love”. Paul shares how love, grace, and healing only happen in the present moment, and share some highly practical life experience that can transform one’s most intimate relationships.

Show Notes:

Resources mentioned in episode
- Paul’s book The Shack
- Bessel van der Kolk’s book The Body Keeps The Score
PDF of Lee’s Interview Notes
Full Transcript

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92: Forgiving My Mother’s Murderer: Sharon Risher Feb 16, 2023

How do you forgive someone who committed unspeakable horror against someone you love?

In 2015, 21-year-old white supremacist, Dylann Roof, was welcomed into a bible study at Emanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church in Charleston, South Carolina. Minutes later, he opened fire and murdered nine members of the church. At his trial, the family members of those killed got the chance to speak to Roof publicly, voicing their pain; and some, in the midst of such anguish, publicly forgave him.

But Sharon Risher, whose mother was shot and killed by Roof that day, was not immediately ready to forgive her mother's killer; for her, it was a long, hard road to forgiveness. Today, we discuss Sharon’s book entitled "For Such a Time as This: Hope and Forgiveness After the Charleston Massacre," which explores her journey of grief, healing, and grace after her mother’s murder.

Show Notes:

Mentioned in this episode
- Sharon’s book “For Such a Time as This: Hope and Forgiveness After the Charleston Massacre”
- President Obama’s eulogy for the victims
- Sharon’s NYT article “I Wish the Jury Had Not Sentenced My Family’s Killer to Death”
Lee's Interview Notes
Transcription Link

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87: Doing Justice Alongside MLK and Rosa Parks: Dr. Fred Gray (Best Of NSE) Jan 16, 2023

In honor of MLK day, we're once again airing our conversation with Martin Luther King's first lawyer Fred Gray. We hope this episode celebrates the progress made toward justice and reminds us of the work yet to be done. Dr. Gray tells stunning stories of his work as a civil rights lawyer standing before the supreme court on multiple occasions, and what it was like to stand beside MLK and Rosa Parks in the fight for racial equity - a fight, he is careful to note, that is still ongoing.

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91: The Power of Being Known: Curt Thompson Dec 15, 2022

What do our brains want more than chocolate, sex, or a sports car? What does your memory of long past events have to do with the apparently unrelated arguments and anxiety you are experiencing these days? Psychiatrist Curt Thompson discusses these questions from the perspective of both brain science and theology. A psychiatrist in private practice, Dr. Thompson has expertise in interpersonal neurobiology, and contends that a key to living a good life comes quite simply to this: “being known.” Lee and Curt discuss two of Curt’s books, “The Anatomy of the Soul” and “The Soul of Desire,” with conversation on trauma and anxiety, connection and community, and what your memory of long past events has to do with the apparently unrelated arguments you are having many years later.

Books discussed in this episode:

The Soul of Desire: Discovering the Neuroscience of Longing, Beauty, and Community

Want more from Curt Thompson in conversation with Lee? Check out our earlier podcast episode with Curt on Curt’s book The Soul of Shame: Retelling the Stories We Believe About Ourselves.

Additional NSE episodes of related interest:

The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry: John Mark Comer

What Hath Christianity to do with Psychology? Mark McMinn

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90: Reality TV, The Cuban Revolution, and a Disco Queen Mother: JohnnySwim Dec 08, 2022

The folk-pop duo Johnnyswim, comprised of married couple Amanda Sudano and Abner Ramirez, discuss their reality television shows, their public marriage, their radically different childhoods, and their opinions about Christianity in America.

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89: When Justice Never Comes How Can We Begin Again? A Look at America Through The Life of James Baldwin with Dr. Eddie Glaude Dec 01, 2022

Why are there different narratives around race in America? Some Americans believe that we are a “shining city on a hill” a beacon of truth and justice for the world, but anyone with eyes can see that there are some major contradictions in that narrative. James Baldwin called this “The Lie” and we discuss it in great detail with Dr. Eddie Glaude and his book Begin Again: James Baldwin's America and its Urgent Lessons For Our Own. The book is a powerful reckoning with America’s ongoing failure to confront the lies it tells itself about race. So when justice never seems to come how can we begin again?

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88: Can Religion Make You Happier? The Surprising Scientific Findings of Ancient Religious Practice: David Desteno Nov 17, 2022

Does religion make us happier? David Desteno discusses his book How God Works, in which he makes the argument, backed by research, that the wisdom of the world’s great religious traditions lines up with recent psychological and neuroscientific findings about what constitutes a good, flourishing life.

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87: Doing Justice Alongside MLK and Rosa Parks: Dr. Fred Gray Nov 10, 2022

The civil rights movement was led by a host of brilliant and courageous men and women, among their ranks the lawyer Dr. Fred Gray. He was MLK's first attorney, he successfully argued before the Supreme Court multiple times, and he was a close friend of Rosa Parks. Today, he shares those stories, along with his thoughts on the ongoing fight for equity in the United States.

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86: Kristin Du Mez sits with David French Nov 03, 2022

What happens when one of the country’s most outspoken critics of white male Christian political conservatism sits down with a well-known white male conservative Christian political pundit? Find out, as Kristin Du Mez and David French discuss politics, culture, and the desperate need for hospitality in the digital age.

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No Small Endeavor Trailer Nov 01, 2022

Ethics professor and host Lee C. Camp explores what it means to live a good life by sitting down with some of the world's greatest thinkers, creatives, and everyone in between—from PRX, Tokens Media and Great Feeling Studios.

For fans of On Being, The Daily Stoic, and Oprah's Super Soul.

Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

Guests include:

Malcolm Gladwell
James Lawson
Tara Brach
Rainn Wilson
Amy Grant
David French
Ayana Elizabeth Johnson
David Brookes
Greg Boyle
Russell Moore

www.nosmallendeavor.com

85: The New Name: Why Living a Good Life is “No Small Endeavor” Oct 27, 2022

The inaugural episode of No Small Endeavor, in which Lee discusses the reasons behind the name change, the mission entailed by the new name, and the centrality of conversation, courage, and community.

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84: The End of the Tokens Show: Jason Eskridge, Michael Hicks, Odessa Settles Oct 20, 2022

The final episode of Tokens Show (in a way). Jason Eskridge, Michael Hicks, and Odessa Settles discuss their experiences with tokenism, and Lee reveals why, given such realities, the Tokens Show has decided upon a new name.

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83: Why You Shouldn’t Punish—or Reward—Your Kids: Alfie Kohn Oct 13, 2022

Are many parenting styles doing more harm than good? Alfie Kohn discusses the surprising psychology behind the widely practiced reward/punishment model of raising kids, and why we should “work with” our children instead of trying to control their behavior.

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82: Doing Justice at The People’s Plaza: Justin Jones Oct 06, 2022

“Justice is what love looks like in public.” In this episode, Justin Jones discusses how his work for justice, particularly during a 62-day non-violent protest outside the Tennessee State Capitol, is itself an act of faith, steeped in self-denying love.

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81: Bourbon, Bluegrass and the Bible, with the Hillbilly Thomists Sep 29, 2022

What do bourbon, bluegrass, and the Bible have in common? Just ask the Billboard charting Hillbilly Thomists, a group of Catholic Dominican Friars, clad in white tunics and rosaries—playing bluegrass music. Their name, Hillbilly Thomists, is indebted to the Catholic Southern Gothic writer Flannery O'Connor whose mixture of morbidity and grace show up in their songs. We assembled at the Soultrain Sound Studio in Nashville, TN to hear about their vocation, what life is like on the road as occasionally touring musicians, and their many songs including one entitled “Bourbon, Bluegrass and the Bible”.

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80: The Art of Conversation: Heather Holleman Sep 22, 2022

“Good conversations create personal closeness,” says Heather Holleman. “When you have good conversations, it could intervene in the loneliness epidemic.” Today, she discusses the many tried-and-true methods for becoming better conversationalists – a skill that just might be a central key to human flourishing.

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79: The Flag, the Cross, and the Station Wagon: Bill McKibben Sep 15, 2022

“If we are to take heart from the really good things about American history, we have no choice but to reckon first with the dark sides of it,” says Bill McKibben, a prominent journalist, author, and activist. One of the most prominent of environmental activists and authors, McKibben also discusses racial justice, the economic impact of suburbanization, and the relation of the Christian church to social change in America.

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78: We’re Not as Good (Or Bad) as We Think We Are: Christian Miller Sep 08, 2022

Are we as good as we think we are? Virtue theory suggests that things like compassion, honesty, and courage are the keys to living a good, happy life. But Christian Miller brings to light a troubling reality: though we all want to be virtuous, it turns out that it doesn’t take much to get us to forsake our values.

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77: The Price of the Pursuit of Pleasure: Anna Lembke Sep 01, 2022

In a culture brimming with wealth, upward social mobility, and endless access to pleasure, why are we only becoming more anxious, depressed, and unsatisfied? Dr. Anna Lembke makes a claim many of us don’t want to hear, though we know to be true: “Every pleasure has a cost, and that cost is pain.

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76: The Practice of Friendship Jun 09, 2022

Is friendship really a key to being happy? We often make our quest for human flourishing a solitary one, focusing on making changes in our personal mindsets and habits. Yet, much ancient and modern wisdom suggests that we cannot do it alone. In this episode, Andy Gullahorn, Gabe Scott, and Antsy McClain share stories and songs – full of high fives and trailer parks – that showcase the importance of deep friendship and community.

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75: The Practice of Humor Jun 02, 2022

Might we all be happier if we stopped taking ourselves too seriously? Singer-songwriters Andy Gullahorn and Antsy McClain describe how humor can make us comfortable enough to be vulnerable with each other.

74: Past Hymns for the Present Moment: Phil Madeira, Leslie Jordan, Odessa Settles May 26, 2022

Hymns are often sentimentalized in the American church, cast aside as merely retired songs with dated language, bearing no real appeal or relevance. But of course it may be that our old hymnals have some crucial things to say to us in our current cultural moment. This is the challenge I posed to Odessa Settles, Phil Madeira, and Leslie Jordan: find and perform some old hymns which might be both indicting and encouraging to the modern church, and to the world at large. Beautiful conversation and moving performances, taped at Nashville’s Sound Emporium.

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73: Listen, Love, and Turn the Other Cheek: Joy Oladokun May 12, 2022

How music gives voice to people on the margins; how lament and hope co-exist in songwriting; and wondering what one is really supposed to do with “turn the other cheek,” all with Joy Oladokun. Plus, she performs five of her songs live from Nashville’s Sound Emporium.

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72: Giving Away My Happiness: K.S. Rhoads Apr 28, 2022

Instagram culture, internet extremism, the Seven Deadly Sins, the hard work of parenting, learning how to grieve, and much more. Plus, KS performs five beautiful songs live from Nashville’s famed Sound Emporium.

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71: Seven Ways to Ruin Your Life: Rebecca DeYoung Apr 21, 2022

Are the “seven deadly sins” merely a medieval-era reflection upon divine finger-wagging? Rebecca DeYoung explains why the “seven deadly sins” is better understood as a diagnostic tool which may instead facilitate a joyful and flourishing life.

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70: Does Evolutionary Theory Destroy Morality?: Justin Barrett Apr 14, 2022

Does evolutionary theory destroy morality? Barrett contends that evolutionary psychology might instead provide guidance toward practices of sociability, community, and love.

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69: Enneagram Wisdom and Living Well: Suzanne Stabile Apr 07, 2022

A helpful conversation with Suzanne Stabile on the Enneagram: what it is, what it isn’t, and why it can be a helpful tool for the flourishing of the self and the community.

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68: How Ancient Wisdom Can Change Your Life: Edith Hall Mar 31, 2022

Edith Hall offers timely commentary on the virtue ethics of Aristotle: and how contemporary society may be missing fundamental keys to living life well.

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67: A Jewish Take on Jesus: AJ Levine Mar 24, 2022

What do Christians get wrong about Jesus? Prof. AJ Levine discusses common mis-readings of the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus’s stance on societal and gender norms, and how “Christian Fragility” impedes one’s ability to listen and learn.

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66: Conservatism without Trumpism: David French Mar 17, 2022

David French discusses the culture of animosity in which he finds himself as a political commentator; what it’s like to critique conservatism as a conservative; and why he thinks America’s classical liberalism may yet be salvageable.

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65: The Business of War: Justin Barringer Mar 10, 2022

The commodification of almost everything is one fact of life in the late modern capitalist world in which we live in the west. But commodification even of war? Justin Bronson Barringer joins us to discuss the business of war and the US military industrial complex.

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64: Is Conservative Christianity Anti-Intellectual?: Molly Worthen Mar 03, 2022

Is Conservative Christianity necessarily opposed to reason? Dr. Molly Worthen discusses the history of Protestant Evangelicalism, and how this tradition has often been “perhaps the most preoccupied with squaring reason with their understanding of faith.” A complex and fascinating tale.

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63: Women, Justice, and Preaching in the Deep South: Janet Wolf Feb 24, 2022

“I did not go to divinity school to become a pastor. I went to figure out how people could read the Bible and not do justice.” Janet Wolf recounts her experiences doing justice and advocacy work in the face of misogyny, poverty, and racism as the first female Methodist pastor in Lawrence County, Tennessee.

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62: Against, and For, the Tribe: Russell Moore Feb 17, 2022

“People are not so afraid of holding a wrong opinion, as they are of holding an opinion alone,” says public theologian Dr. Russell Moore, paraphrasing Soren Kierkegaard. In light of his recent book The Courage to Stand, we discussed the dangers of waging debate for the sake of hostility; the immense value found in cultivating the virtues of courage, prudence, and humility; and why he believes that “only the crucifiable self can find the courage to stand.” And these are not merely academic matters for Russell, having himself experienced trying times of intense public scrutiny from colleagues, friends, enemies, and Donald Trump.

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61: Black Mothers: Marty Dodson & Stephanie Knight Dec 09, 2021

Marty Dodson is an acclaimed country singer-songwriter in Nashville. A number of years ago, he and his wife felt compelled to move from their home in Franklin, a wealthy and predominantly white suburb, to East Nashville, a historically black neighborhood which has been the site of much gentrification over the past few decades. When they moved in, they were instantly welcomed by Stephanie Knight, their new neighbor, and a long-time resident of East Nashville. Following the tragic murder of George Floyd, Marty and his wife were walking in their neighborhood when they stopped to talk to Stephanie. A long, tear-filled conversation culminated in Stephanie’s heartbreaking statement: “I’m scared for my boys… I just want them to come home.” It was this conversation that led Marty to start writing “Black Mothers,” a haunting song reminiscent of the Hebrew prophet’s plea for “justice to roll down like waters.” Today, their story, along with a performance of the song they wrote together.

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60: Man Shall Not Live by Profit Alone: Jay Jakub Dec 02, 2021

“What should the right level of profit be for a corporation?” In this episode, Jay Jakub discusses why this question must be asked in order for a business to thrive, and how a more holistic approach to capitalism might be adopted to unlock a company’s full potential. And maybe help save the world.

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59: Welcome Table: A Tokens Thanksgiving Special Nov 23, 2021

A special episode reflecting on over a decade of Thanksgivings spent at Nashville’s historic Ryman auditorium, with some of our favorite performances, sketches, and memories which we’ve shared together.

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58: White Too Long: Robert Jones Nov 18, 2021

Robert P. Jones discusses the ways his research has led to a shocking conclusion: “If you take your average white American, and you add Christian identity, they move up the racism index, not down.” And such a confession, he says, is a necessary starting point before there can be any reconciliation.

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57: The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry: John Mark Comer Nov 11, 2021

“Most people are too busy to live emotionally healthy and spiritually vibrant lives.” In this episode, John Mark Comer discusses the importance of taking seriously spiritual formation in a culture of noise and speed; why willpower cannot do what we want it to do; and practical ways we might find and live the good, the true, and the beautiful.

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56: Homeboys, Delight, Gladness: Greg Boyle Nov 04, 2021

Father Greg Boyle, founder of Homeboy Industries, the world's largest gang-member rehabilitation program, in one of our most beautiful interviews to date. “You don't go to the margins to make a difference. You go to the margins so that the folks at the margins make you different."

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55: Diversity, Virtue, Healthcare: Dr. Andre Churchwell Oct 28, 2021

What role might race play in today’s ever-increasing gaps of social and economic inequality? And what might we be able to do about it? In this episode, Dr. Andre Churchwell explains how a life of cultivated virtue and diversity might be necessary to equip us to address such issues of injustice.

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54: Why Liberalism Failed: Patrick Deneen Oct 21, 2021

What if the seemingly-opposite political forces of Left and Right are really two sides of the same philosophical coin? Patrick Deneen discusses the ways in which the modern West has taken for granted its long-held philosophy of Liberalism, and why this philosophy is starting to show signs of an inevitable failure.

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53: Peace, Justice, Ice Cream: Ben Cohen Oct 14, 2021

“It has to be the joyful journey for justice,” says Ben Cohen, the world-famous “Ben” in Ben & Jerry’s. In this episode, we hear from Ben how starting an ice cream business has given him the means to do justice with hope and humor.

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52: Free Cyntoia: Cyntoia Brown Long Oct 07, 2021

A special episode, taped in front of a live audience, in which Cyntoia Brown Long chronicles her experience leading to and within the Tennessee prison system, and the dramatic, at times hard-to-believe nature of the grace and providence which led to her coming-to-faith and ultimate release.

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51: The (Not Really) War Between Science and Faith: David Wilkinson Sep 30, 2021

The X-CLUB, and the invention of the supposed war between science and faith, with astro-physicist and theologian David Wilkinson of Durham University.

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50: Hope in the Age of Climate Change: Chris Doran Sep 23, 2021

What does the resurrection of Jesus have to do with climate change? Chris Doran discusses why a rightly-seen eschatological hope should necessarily drive Christians towards climate care.

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49: Self-Compassion: Kristin Neff Sep 16, 2021

Ever wonder about “everybody getting a trophy” and the cult of self-esteem? Kristin Neff discusses the potential dangers of self-esteem—like bullying and narcissism—and the preferred practice of self-compassion.

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48: Tuskegee, Healthcare, Justice: Quincy Byrdsong Sep 09, 2021

“Health inequities started with slavery,” says Dr. Quincy Byrdsong in this episode on healthcare inequities. We discuss at length the infamous Tuskegee Syphilis trials, and the persistent issues in healthcare and social justice. We close with a personal conversation about his experience as an African-American man, and how he has emotionally and professionally navigated doing such work.

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47: Guns, Economics, Public Health: David Hemenway Sep 02, 2021

The US, says Harvard Prof. David Hemenway, does not have a “violence problem” in comparison to other high-income countries in terms of robbery, assault, or burglary. But we have much more homicide and gun-related problems: “A child in the United States is much more likely to be murdered with a firearm than children in these other countries: We are twenty-nine times higher.” From the perspective of public health, what practical helps might there be? Listener discretion is advised.

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46: Bad Faith—Race and the Rise of the Religious Right: Randall Balmer Aug 26, 2021

Professor of Religion at Dartmouth College Randall Balmer tells of a meeting in Washington, DC that changed the course of his academic career, and set him on an unexpected investigation: the Religious Right’s origins is not to be located in the issue of abortion. Instead, he concludes, the movement began “to defend racial segregation.”

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45: The Opposite of Faith is Certainty: Christian Wiman Aug 19, 2021

Poet Christian Wiman discusses doubt and faith; the role of poetry “when the world is burning”; ways in which being raised in west Texas made him the poet and person he is; how “destitution and abundance are two facets of the one face of God”; along with four poem recitations.

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44: God and Guns: Chris Hays and Carly Crouch Aug 12, 2021

Not so sure about Christians touting second amendment gun rights? A discussion with the editors of God and Guns: The Bible Against American Gun Culture, who challenge the too-easy pro-gun rhetoric of many American Christians.

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43: Good Trouble: Ruby Amanfu, Matt Maher, Leigh Nash Aug 05, 2021

“Never, ever be afraid to make some noise and get in good trouble,” said Congressman John Lewis. Leigh Nash and Matt Maher met for a song co-write honoring Lewis’s wisdom, hoping to speak to issues of race in America. Knowing their white perspective was not sufficient for an honest song, some awkwardness and vulnerability led to a request of their third co-writer Ruby Amanfu. That gave rise to their moving song “Good Trouble.” Includes live performance.

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42: The Making of Biblical Womanhood: Beth Allison Barr Jun 03, 2021

Conservative American Christianity insists we must not let the wider culture determine what we do, and yet we see that happening precisely in the patriarchy that characterizes much of American Christianity. So argues Dr. Barr, in her critique of the subordination of women in the church. Plus live satire from Tokens Show’s own Brother Preacher, aka Greg Lee. This and more, all playing off Dr. Barr’s book The Making of Biblical Womanhood: How the Subjugation of Women Became Gospel Truth.

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41: Thou Shalt Not be a Jerk: Eugene Cho May 27, 2021

Eugene Cho is a Korean-born immigrant to the United States and now activist and author. We discuss his moving and distressing childhood experiences at age six; his journey to Christianity; and how both those realities have given him insight and possibilities for service to the world, as well as put him at odds with both the right and the left in America.

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40: The Soul of Shame: Curt Thompson May 20, 2021

Psychiatrist Curt Thompson joins Lee to discuss his book The Soul of Shame. They discuss the mechanism of shame, how it impedes joy, connection, creativity and human flourishing; and how vulnerability subverts shame. Don’t just listen to this one. Take notes, and try it… But it’s not for the faint of heart.

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39: Fear, Home and the Asian-American Experience: Eugene Cho and Karen Korematsu May 13, 2021

In light of the recent rise of anti-Asian-American hostility and violence, we interview Dr. Karen Korematsu, daughter of famed civil-rights activist Fred Korematsu, the namesake of the infamous 1944 Supreme Court Case Korematsu v. United States. Mr. Korematsu, a Japanese-American and American citizen, refused to comply with President Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s executive order which would have forced his re-location to an American “concentration camp.” In addition, we talk to Korean-born activist Eugene Cho, on his moving experiences as an American immigrant. Plus, live musical performances by Buddy Greene and the Most Outstanding Horeb Mountain Boys.

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38: The Gravity of Joy: Angela Williams Gorrell (with Miroslav Volf) May 06, 2021

An interview with Angela Williams Gorrell, Professor of Practical Theology at Baylor University, and author of a new book entitled The Gravity of Joy: A Story of Being Lost and Found. Angela recounts her own experiences with the sudden, tragic, and nearly simultaneous losses of three family members; how America’s current crisis of despair can be traced and understood through suicide and addiction rates; and the surprising ways in which gateways to joy can be found in the midst of deep grief; plus, additional commentary from Angela’s former boss at Yale, Miroslav Volf, on the connection between joy and sorrow.

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37: Jesus and John Wayne: Kristin Du Mez Apr 29, 2021

An interview with Kristin Du Mez, Professor of History and Gender Studies at Calvin University and author of a provocative new book entitled Jesus and John Wayne: How White Evangelicals Corrupted a Faith and Fractured a Nation. In light of the fact that 81% of white evangelicals supposedly voted for Donald Trump in the 2016 election, many have tried to make sense of how “family values voters” could have supported Trump. Du Mez, in contrast, claims that this support of Trump was not in contradiction to, but consistent with, the deeper values of American evangelical Christianity. Regardless of your politics, you will not find this an episode that leaves you without some emotion.

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36: “The most polarized issue in the United States”: Katharine Hayhoe Apr 22, 2021

An interview with Katharine Hayhoe, one of the leading climate scientists in the United States, and author of a soon-to-be-released book entitled Saving Us: A Climate Scientist’s Case for Hope and Healing in a Divided World. Katharine and Lee discuss the supposed dichotomy between evangelical Christianity and climate science; the truth about some common climate change myths; and how Katharine, as an evangelical Christian herself, receives hate mail and death threats on an almost daily basis, and yet sees Christians as the perfect people to care about stewarding their responsibility to look after creation.

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35: The Collapse of the Biosphere: Peter Harris Apr 15, 2021

An interview with Peter Harris, Anglican clergyman and founder of the highly esteemed Christian conservation non-profit A Rocha International. Peter and Lee discuss why the political polarization of the climate crisis in the United States is more an accident of history than a theological necessity; the ways in which fundamental Christian orthodoxy supports ecological conservation; and how, the preservation, or decimation, of much of the biosphere is dependent upon the choices of evangelical Christians.

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34: Doubt Becomes Wonder: Audrey Assad Apr 08, 2021

A frequent guest on Tokens Show, Audrey Assad joins Lee to discuss her new memoir Doubt Becomes Wonder: Embracing the Loss of Everything You Thought You Knew. They discuss healing from childhood wounds, and the consequent navigation of doubt; and Audrey’s experience as a woman in the church. PLUS: two live studio performances.

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33: Fighting Dragons and Singing at Loss: Drew Holcomb Apr 01, 2021

Drew Holcomb, whom the Rolling Stone recently called “one of Americana’s Most Popular Stars,” talks with Lee about his surprising road through academia to becoming a singer-songwriter; the tragic loss of his younger brother; and what it’s like to have courage and hope as a songwriter, artist, husband, and father in the midst of the current polarized cultural moment. PLUS! Live in-the-studio-performances of two of his most moving songs: “You Never Leave My Heart” and “Dragons.”

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32: Republicans, Roe v Wade, and the Pro-Life Failure: Bill Cavanaugh Mar 18, 2021

Bill Cavanaugh, professor of Catholic studies at DePaul University, discusses with Lee his recent provocative article entitled "Electing Republicans has not Reversed Roe vs. Wade. It's Time to Change Our Strategy." in which Bill shares some shocking realities which are being little discussed and appear to be little known about the abortion debates in America. In addition, Lee and Bill discuss Bill’s book Torture and Eucharist on the Pinochet regime in Chile, along with a brief discussion of Bill’s book Being Consumed, in which Bill both critiques naïve notions of the “free market” while not advocating state socialism as the only other alternative.

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31: Addiction, Loss, Possibility: Megan Barry Mar 04, 2021

An interview with Megan Barry, former mayor of Nashville. Lee and Megan discuss the tragic subject of addiction and how it led to the accidental overdose and death of her son Max; what it has been like to find hope and healing in both the midst and aftermath of such a tragedy; what there may be to learn, both personally and communally, about the various stigmas and statistics currently surrounding the issue; and the ways, both large and small, in which the current epidemic of addiction may be fought.

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30: Beyond Fake News: Justin McBrayer Feb 25, 2021

An interview with Justin McBrayer, Professor of Philosophy at Fort Lewis College, Executive Director of the Society of Christian Philosophers, and the author of a new book entitled Beyond Fake News: Finding the Truth in a World of Misinformation. Lee and Justin discuss the current crisis of a world plagued with false information, made worse by new media and technology; some surprising ways in which we ourselves often contribute in oblivious fashion to such a crisis; and some practices which we may adopt to combat the spread, both within ourselves and within our larger communities, of fake news.

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29: Praying With Our Feet: Lindsey Glenn Krinks Feb 11, 2021

An interview with justice-seeker Lindsey Glenn Krinks on her experience as an advocate for the incarcerated, the sick, and the homeless; what it has been like to be a woman interested in the male-dominated field of theology; stories she has lived as a co-founder of Open Table Nashville, a nonprofit which seeks to disrupt cycles of poverty; and her new book, Praying with Our Feet: Pursuing Justice and Healing on the Streets.

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28: Science, Faith, and Einstein: Alister McGrath Jan 28, 2021

An interview with Alister McGrath, esteemed professor of Science and Religion at the University of Oxford, and one of the world’s leading Christian apologists. Lee and Alister discuss one of the great modern dichotomies of our day: the supposed mutually exclusive choice between science and faith; why the teachings and writings of Einstein played a significant role in undermining McGrath’s own former atheism; and why adhering to a more holistic, incorporative view of science, religion, and philosophy may lead us to a better understanding of ourselves and of the world.

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27: The Death Penalty Jan 03, 2021

A special episode chronicling the capital punishment case of Pervis Payne, an inmate for over three decades on Tennessee’s death row; a similar story from former death row inmate Ndume Olatushani; and commentary from author and activist Shane Claiborne about the Christian church’s complex relationship with capital punishment. Plus musical performances by Buddy Greene, Sonya Isaacs, Vince Gill, and Odessa Settles.

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26: Welcome Table: A Tokens Thanksgiving Special Nov 24, 2020

Each year since 2008 we've spent the Sunday before Thanksgiving at Nashville's Historic Ryman Auditorium for an evening centered on gratitude and hospitality. This special episode of the Tokens Podcast reflects on over a decade of Thanksgivings spent at the Mother Church of Country Music with some of our favorite performances.

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25: Pay Attention. Be Kind. Live Large: Naomi Shihab Nye Nov 19, 2020

Naomi Shihab Nye is the author and/or editor of more than 30 volumes, the Young People’s Poet Laureate, and as we used to say in Alabama, the winner of more awards than you can shake a stick at. In this sort of wisdom-of-the-ages interview, Naomi discusses kindness, the joy which accompanies sorrow, paying attention, and living life large. She also shares two of her well-known poems: “Kindness,” and “Gate A4.”

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23: The 4:00 AM Combat Convoy Briefing: Diana Oestreich Nov 05, 2020

Diana Oestreich, a combat veteran of the Iraq war, had a “desert experience” precipitated by her sergeant’s orders in a 4.00 a.m. combat convoy safety briefing. We discuss that story and the unfolding of her remarkable experiences deployed to a combat zone, the exercise of a new kind of courage, and her new book entitled Waging Peace: One Soldier's Story of Putting Love First

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22: The Christian Imagination: Willie James Jennings Oct 29, 2020

An interview with Dr. Willie James Jennings, Associate Professor of Systematic Theology and Africana Studies at Yale University, on his book The Christian Imagination: Theology and the Origins of Race. Jennings argues that the medieval European colonialist Christian vision imagined the entire globe in terms of a racist imagination; and that the continue to reap the consequences to this day; and that the Christian tradition does, in fact, have resources to re-imagine a new sort of world.

LINKS:

Dr. Jennings’ book, The Christian Imagination

Tokens Online Master Course with Miroslav Volf, Lee C. Camp, and John Mark Hicks.

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21: “What Could Possibly Produce Someone with a Soul That Shallow?”: Stanley Hauerwas Oct 22, 2020

Stanley Hauerwas was once dubbed by Time Magazine with the moniker, “America’s Greatest Theologian.” This is ironic because he’s spent much of his life criticizing American Christianity. Join us for our evening with Stanley, a beloved, profane, beautifully grumpy theologian, as he shares about non-violence, the story of Billy Dick, and a brief commentary on Christians and Donald Trump. PLUS: Stanley Hauerwas makes his acting debut with a stand-up comedy with the Tokens Radio Players.

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20: The Facts of Life: Pádraig Ó Tuama Oct 15, 2020

Irish poet, peace-maker and theologian Pádraig Ó Tuama joins Lee for a discussion on practices of peace-making, including peace with oneself. They both discuss the great significance of John 21 for their own lives. And Pádraig shares readings from his poems “The Facts of Life,” “The Pedagogy of Conflict,” and “Shaking Hands.”

LINKS:

Padraig Books:

In the Shelter

Sorry For Your Troubles

Daily Prayer with the Corrymeela Community

Readings from the Book of Exile

Tokens Online Master Courses

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19: “I’m a Black Feminist: I Think Call Out Culture is Toxic”: Loretta Ross Oct 08, 2020

Loretta Ross is a black feminist, a human rights activist, and an advocate for most things for the American political left. But in a recent New York Times opinion piece, she argues that American culture is sick with calling out, cancelling, and virtue signaling. Co-host Lauren White joins Lee Camp for a provocative conversation sure to be simultaneously celebrated and criticized by both right and left, which prescribes “calling in”—a call for accountability with love—as a creative and productive way forward.

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18: What Hath Christianity to do with Psychology? Mark McMinn Oct 01, 2020

Mark McMinn, Professor of Psychology discusses the presumed antagonism between Christianity and psychology; the recent new research findings which posit a much larger ground of overlap; The surprising consensus between new findings in psychology and traditional Christian virtue theory; one of the common denominators in cases of psychosis and depression; and Lee discusses some of his own experience with depression.

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17: “I Don’t Know if I Should Say It, but, well…”: Charlie Strobel Sep 24, 2020

Charlie Strobel is a sort of elder-statesman in Nashville, a Catholic priest, and founder of Room in the Inn. In a moving conversation with Charlie about some of his most important life moments, Lee and Charlie discuss loneliness and solitude; therapy and the opening of the self; receiving hospitality from the homeless as a boy; and the murder of Charlie’s mother. Charlie shares things regarding which he says “Nobody really knows this, but I guess, I don't know if I should say it, but, well…”

LINKS:
- Tokens Courses: tokensshow.com/courses

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16: Most Outstanding Season Wrap: Lee C. Camp Aug 13, 2020

Host Lee C. Camp in a recap of season one, wandering hither and yon through the archives: on the burning of the world; the apparent irrelevance of poetry, song, and story; the importance of shutting up and listening; on the refusal to practice “othering”; and the deep need for humility as a social virtue.

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15: I Am Not Your Enemy: Michael T. McRay Aug 06, 2020

Author and story practitioner travels to some of the globe’s most contentious socio-political locales. He’s convinced you cannot argue people into a new way of seeing the world, you can only story them into new ways of thinking. In this compelling episode, we hear some of the troubling and violent, yet nonetheless hopeful, stories he’s learned. And we reflect upon personal practices of peace-making, with others and with ourselves.

LINKS:

Link to Michael’s book

Master Course with Miroslav Volf

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14: “Does This Make My Butt Look Big?”: Ashley Cleveland Jul 30, 2020

Grammy and Dove Award winner Ashley Cleveland holds back little, and discusses major life lessons: from her adolescent “bad habit of behaving badly” through the storm of subsequent consequences and recovery; plus a conversation about the south and race, a horrifying murder, and Anne Lamott’s wisdom about what we do, and do not, have time for.

Links:

Master Course with Miroslav Volf

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13: A Theology of Joy: Miroslav Volf Jul 23, 2020

No theology of grumpiness here: Miroslav Volf (Professor of Theology, and Director of the Center for Faith and Culture at Yale University) sketches some initial direction for a Theology of Joy. Volf himself having suffered under a communist regime, and his father have imprisoned in a forced labor camp, he provides compelling possibilities for joy in some of the most difficult of circumstances. AND: Brother Preacher makes an (intrusive) appearance.

LINKS:
- Master Course with Miroslav Volf (get 50% off with code VOLF50): https://www.tokensshow.com/courses
- Book: Exclusion and Embrace, Revised and Updated: A Theological Exploration of Identity, Otherness, and Reconciliation - https://amzn.to/2ZPPbqF
- Book: For the Life of the World: Theology That Makes a Difference (Theology for the Life of the World) - https://amzn.to/2ZM9t46
- Book: Flourishing: Why We Need Religion in a Globalized World - https://amzn.to/32CD9CD
- Book: Allah: A Christian Response - https://amzn.to/2OGBzrb

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12: Recovery, the Enneagram, and Being Human: Ian Cron Jul 16, 2020

Ian Cron, host of the Typology podcast and author of The Road Back to You, discusses finding himself and helping others find themselves, through the gifts of both recovery and the Enneagram. Facing resentments, as well as one’s shadow side, turn out to be key practices in becoming more truly human.

LINKS:

Ian’s Podcast, Typology

Tokens Online Courses

Convicted: An Innocent Man, the Cop Who Framed Him, and an Unlikely Journey of Forgiveness and Friendship

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11: Feminism Crash Course: Lauren Smelser White Jul 09, 2020

What do you get when a woman from north Alabama, raised conservative in most every way, goes to a private Christian college, earns her master’s degree in literature from another Christian college, and then earns a PhD in theology from Divinity School? A Christian feminist, of course. Get a crash course on feminism, and learn why and how Christianity made Lauren Smelser White a feminist.

LINKS:

Join Tokens in 2020 for our online shows and courses: www.tokensshow.com/2020

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10: Jewish, Yankee Feminist, New Testament Professor: Amy-Jill Levine Jul 02, 2020

Jewish Vanderbilt Divinity school Professor of New Testament AJ Levine, self-described as a Yankee Feminist, joins Tokens to talk about two of her books; but more, how she once wanted to be the pope, what she does not like about liberal Christians, and a marvelous telling of the parable of the Good Samaritan.

LINKS:

Amy-Jill's books:
- The Misunderstood Jew: The Church and the Scandal of the Jewish Jesus https://amzn.to/38mDY3d Short
- Stories by Jesus: The Enigmatic Parables of a Controversial Rabbi https://amzn.to/3dP2gEm
Update on Jameel McGee: Tokensshow.com/ac
More about Tokens: Tokensshow.com/2020

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9: Dirty Cop, False Arrest, and Unexpected Consequences Jun 25, 2020

Andrew Collins, a white, dirty cop, falsifies his testimony. A black innocent man, Jameel McGee, gets sentenced to ten years in the Federal Pen. This is the story of the unanticipated consequences of a false-arrest gone bad, and then gone bad again.

LINKS:

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8: Dorothy Day: Traditional, Radical, Christian Jun 18, 2020

In the only instance of a papal address to a joint session of Congress, Pope Francis heralded Dorothy Day as one of four Americans worthy of great emulation. Host Lee C. Camp interviews Martin Doblmeier on his new film about Dorothy Day, along with his work on two other American theologians and activists Reinhold Niebuhr and Howard Thurman.

EPISODE LINKS:

Pope Francis Address

Dorothy Day Film

Howard Thurman Film

Reinhold Niebuhr film

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7: The Road to Character: David Brooks Jun 11, 2020

New York Times columnist David Brooks reflects upon the major themes from his book The Road to Character, including the possibility of grace awakening the desire to live a better life, making commitments, mothers, and Saint Augustine. Lauren White joins Lee Camp for a first co-hosting stint.

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6: Hospitality Wanted, Given, and Given When not Wanted: Leslie Garcia, Brian McLaren, and Odessa Settles Jun 04, 2020

Three very different accounts of hospitality: one entails sneaking across the border in the back of a pick-up truck. Another entails seeking out a Muslim imam to say some things after September 11. And a third entails a radical subversion of southern racism through the exercise of both medical expertise, and kindness. Our episode on hospitality comprises an interview with author Brian McLaren, a spoken word performance by Leslie Garcia, and an interview with beloved Nashville performer Odessa Settles.

LINKS:

Brian’s book: "Why Did Jesus, Moses, the Buddha, and Mohammed Cross the Road? Christian Identity in a Multi-Faith World" - https://amzn.to/2ZKmcVj

Tokens 2020 Subscriptions: www.tokensshow.com/2020

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5: Faith, Science, Humility: Rachel Held Evans, Francis Collins, and Ed Larson May 28, 2020

The supposed conflict between faith and science, as typified in the debate between fundamentalist Christianity and the theory of evolution, turns out to be hiding some skeletons in its closet. This episode explores some crucial unknowns, and breaks down some false dichotomies, in conversations on site of the famed Scopes Trial in Dayton, Tennessee with Pulitzer prize-winning author Ed Larson and celebrated activist and author Rachel Held Evans (who tragically passed away in 2019), as well as an interview at Pepperdine University with Dr. Francis Collins, director of the National Institutes of Health.

Find links to videos and photos from our show at the Rhea County Courthouse, along with historical photos and other helpful links on the episode page at www.tokensshow.com/blog/s1e4

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4: String quartet arrangement of Marie Howe's poem, "Part of Eve's Discussion"-BONUS May 26, 2020

A follow-up to episode three with a special performance of Marie Howe's poem, "Part of Eve's Discussion" set to music by composer Stephen Lamb. Vocalist is Cindy Morgan, Alicia Enstrom and Katelyn Westergard on Violin, Kristin Wilkinson on Viola, Nicholas Gold on Cello.

More about the Tokens Podcast at tokensshow.com/podcast

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3: Poetry as Politics: Poet Laureates Tracy K. Smith and Marie Howe May 21, 2020

A strange conversion experience has happened to religion here in the Bible belt: once known as a key to social transformation, these days it’s more likely the mechanism of socio-political conservatism. So perhaps one of the key questions to living life well in our contemporary world is how to get troubled. Poetry, anyone? The unlikely possibility that poetry could do anything of the sort is explored by former U.S. Poet Laureate Tracy K. Smith, and former NY State Poet Laureate Marie Howe, as they both claim the possibility that poetry can do a great deal of troubling of the waters, can provide a counter-spell to the hypnotizing forces of either social hostility or consumerism.

LINKS:

Tracy K. Smith book, “Life on Mars: Poems”

Tracy K. Smith book, "Wade in the Water: Poems”

Marie Howe book, ”What the Living Do”

Marie Howe book, “Magdalene: Poems”