Show notes
Caller Questions & Discussion: Dr. Jacqui discusses what to do when someone you know is suicidal. My 21-year-old nephew is an atheist, uses substances to drown his sorrows, and has put his hands on his mother more than once. We lost a sibling to suicide, so that might be why my sister is overprotective. The hosts discuss why betrayed women are reluctant to get help for themselves. How do I love and support my 22-year-old daughter without supporting the lesbian lifestyle? My daughter is in a lesbian relationship, and we are Christians who want to love and support her while staying true to our beliefs. New Life Live — Program Transcript Air Date: September 10 Hosts: Brian Perez, Dr. Alice Benton (Clinical Psychologist), and Dr. Jacqui Mack-Harris (Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist), with a visit from New Life President Becky Brown Welcome to New Life Live, the premier place to receive free advice from Christian psychologists and counselors for the mental, emotional, relational, and spiritual challenges you face. Since 1988, we’ve offered compassionate responses that combine God’s truth with proven psychological principles to guide you toward healing. Our phone lines are open. Call us now at 1-800-229-3000. Opening: A Conversation About Suicide Awareness Brian Perez: Hey, welcome to New Life Live. Thank you so much for joining us today. My name is Brian Perez. I’m here with clinical psychologist Dr. Alice Benton and licensed marriage and family therapist Dr. Jacqui Mack-Harris. Ladies, it is so good to be here with you today. Jacqui, what’s on your mind to start us off? Dr. Jacqui Mack-Harris: Well, with it being Suicide Awareness Day, I have been thinking about how important suicide conversations are and how difficult they are. You know, sometimes we notice that somebody’s not themselves and maybe they’re withdrawing or talking about being too much of a burden, saying people would be better off without them. Maybe they’ve started to seem hopeless or wanting to get rid of things, and we start to worry about their safety. But then we become afraid ourselves, and in our fear we don’t ask the question. I’ve found amongst my friends and family and even clients that people are often surprised when I very directly say, “Are you thinking about ending your life? Are you thinking about suicide? Are you thinking about harming yourself? Are you thinking about harming someone else?” And it’s because we don’t want to make people feel bad. So out of our own fear, we don’t do the very thing someone needs. I have heard people say, “Well, I don’t want to cause them to do that,” or “I don’t want to put it on their mind if it’s not already on their mind.” But asking someone directly about suicide doesn’t put the idea in their head. It actually lets them know that you see them, you care about them, that they matter, and that you’re willing to hear what they have to say. And as Christians, sometimes I think we feel pressured to immediately give a scripture, or “I’ll pray for you,” or tell people, “God has a plan.” And yes, those things are true and they can be meaningful, but it’s often not the right answer. Often people just simply need you to be willing to stay. They need to know that they matter enough that even though they are in pain, and their pain hurts you, you will sit with them — that they do matter. So listen. Don’t judge. Don’t minimize their pain — “Oh, it’s fine, we all go through things like that,” or “That happened a long time ago, you should be over that by now.” Don’t try to fix everything in the moment. Sometimes people just need to sit in what hurts, and that is okay. Help them connect to someone who can provide support. Help them connect to New Life. Help them connect to a counselor. Help them find a Life Recovery Group so that they can be around other people who can help them see their own value. Suicide prevention doesn’t always begin with having great words or the perfect words. Sometimes it’s just noticing that someone is struggling and being willing to stay. Dr. Alice Benton: I find that those who are suffering usually want to be asked and wish people would ask them. And you don’t have to be a therapist to ask. It’s okay if you don’t have all the answers. Because if your loved one says, “Yes, I want to hurt myself, I do want to die,” then it can be as simple as calling us at New Life. It can be as simple as calling the suicide prevention hotline, 988. I’ve called 988 in order to get a sense of what happens when someone calls. I found that the person who answered was well equipped, so kind, and very patient. They know what to do. We know what to do. All you have to do, if your loved one says they want to hurt themselves, is reach out for help from professionals, and we’ll walk you through what to do next. Dr. Jacqui Mack-Harris: And I think sharing that also with our kids. I had a conversation with someone whose child came home and said their friend told them that they’d been wanting to hurt themselves, and the kid didn’t know what to do. So we were able to say, “Walk them to the nurse’s office, walk them to the principal’s office, walk them to an adult, and stay with them and have that conversation.” It’s a conversation my family also has from time to time, knowing that the increase in suicidal ideation is so strong today. Our kids need to be equipped. Dr. Alice Benton: They do. They’re out in the world, and people say mean things, and so we need to tell them that their life matters and that they can talk to us about anything. Brian Perez: Yep. We’ll be right back on New Life Live. Gigi, you’ll be our first call, so hang on. Resources Mentioned Brian Perez: Since we were just on the topic of suicide, I want to let you know about a couple of articles that we have available on our website, newlife.com. One of them is called “What to Do When Someone Is Suicidal.” It probably has the information that Jacqui just gave, maybe some extra stuff as well. So check that out at newlife.com. We also have a tip sheet. If you yourself have that suicidal thinking, it’s called “Eight Steps to Breaking Free from Suicidal Thinking.” We can send you that tip sheet when you call 1-800-NEW-LIFE. Or, you know what, just order that tip sheet anyway. Have it handy just in case something happens and you wind up having a conversation with someone. Again, that one’s called “Eight Steps to Breaking Free from Suicidal Thinking.” Call us to get it. And if you’re watching on Facebook or YouTube, we’ll put that information in the show notes there. Caller: Gigi from Orlando, Florida Brian Perez: Let’s go to the phones now. Here is Gigi, who listens to us on newlife.com in Orlando, Florida. Hey there, Gigi. Welcome to New Life Live. Gigi: Thank you. Brian Perez: How can we help you today? Gigi: This topic is kind of multifaceted, but it comes down to things like boundaries. I’m an aunt watching my sister deal with my nephew and the havoc that he’s wreaking on my sister’s marriage, and it’s just hard to watch. He’s 21. We’re a Christian family. He was brought up to know the Lord, and he’s saying that he’s an atheist. And he’s so bitter against all of us, his parents. He’s using substances to drown his sorrows. And it could be worse — I don’t want it to be worse — but he’s had trouble controlling his emotions and anger and has put his hands on his mother more than once, but not recently. And she still is in denial. She’ll tell me one thing and then deny it the next, because it’s hard. She doesn’t want the family to be prejudiced against him. But it’s too late now. We don’t feel safe. And it’s just hard. Dr. Alice Benton: Can I pause you for a minute? She doesn’t want the family to be prejudiced against him — so she doesn’t want the family to react negatively to his behavior and kind of not want him around. Is that what you’re saying? Gigi: Yes, that’s correct. Dr. Alice Benton: And he doesn’t want to be around you guys either, right? Gigi: Yeah, he’s decided he’s atheist, and so, yes. Dr. Alice Benton: You said he put hands on his mother more than once. Were there any consequences for that? Gigi: Yes. The police came. He had to be bailed out of jail. They hired an attorney. It could have been worse. It was him struggling against the police that actually got him in trouble, and the fact that she had called because she was scared. So she blames herself for that, because he won’t let that go. He’s 21. This has happened over the course of a few years that he’s just drowned in sorrow and blaming. Dr. Alice Benton: And Gigi, he still lives with her. Is that right? Gigi: Yes. Dr. Alice Benton: And you said her husband — is her husband his father? Gigi: Oh yes, yes. Dr. Alice Benton: So is he that way with his father as well? Gigi: His father loves him, but he doesn’t have his son’s respect, and his son doesn’t trust his dad — and I think it’s both ways. I think my sister is his soul. She’s the person he’s latched onto for life. And with torture or love, he does something bad and then apologizes. Dr. Alice Benton: Gigi, you’re so right to be worried about her, because she loves him, but she’s also trying to protect him from the righteous consequences of his behavior, and it’s just a setup for him to repeat it. Tell us, do you know if he experienced a major loss or trauma that might have led to him being so embittered? Gigi: My sister would say that it is because they took him across country when he was in high school, because of a job for his dad. And while they were there, he was sad and lonely — first time in high school. A young lady broke his heart and said many awful things, and he has low self-image issues. But he’ll drag everything up. It’s amazing the memory we have when we are wanting to be bitter and resentful. He blame-shifts a lot onto them. Dr. Alice Benton: Blame-shifting is very — Gigi: Yes, I didn’t know that phrase. Dr. Alice Benton: And it’s understandable that he’s hurt by these things, but of course none of it justifies his substance use and his aggressive behavior towards his mom. And she is not willing to allow the consequences for him. But she does want you to be a listening ear, which puts you in a tough position, because you probably want to intervene and she won’t allow you to. Is that right? Gigi: Yes. It’s amazing how quickly our brains go from one thing to another. I will be wanting to encourage her, and then I have to stand up for logic, and then we pray together, and it’s so emotional all the time. I have other siblings, and they don’t want to hear it anymore, and it makes her feel so bad. And she can’t help but want to call us bad names. Dr. Alice Benton: Oh, she’s calling you all bad names. Gigi: Oh yes, yes, yes. Dr. Alice Benton: So she’s verbally abusive to you, even though you’re her listener? Gigi: Yes, because we are not living up to her needs and expectations. So the son might have gotten it honestly. Dr. Jacqui Mack-Harris: Well, I — Gigi: Yes, but I know my whole sister. You know what I mean? I know — Dr. Jacqui Mack-Harris: You know what you see when you’re with her? I’m going to stop you there, because we have a tendency to say we know, but oftentimes we are in relationship with people in our imaginations, not the reality of how they live their life every day, because we’re not there. So we think we know — “My sister would do this,” or “My sister’s this way or that way.” But look at her life and the life circumstance that she’s in. The sister you were about to describe, that you know, wouldn’t be living in this life circumstance. So she has a part of her that isn’t the her you guys know. It is also maybe not the parent you’ve always seen. Dr. Alice Benton: Dr. Jacqui was asking about any events that maybe had happened in his life. That move happened when he was in high school. He maybe felt like he had no say in it. They moved him. He lost friends. Loneliness. She is his person. Dr. Jacqui Mack-Harris: “You’ve got your family. That’s enough. That’s all you need, right?” Well, if she is his person, I wonder what things had been like before he turned 21. What was it like when he was five? What were the responses when he was seven? What were the responses when he was 12? What happened when he got an F? What happened when he lost the game? Because if she’s willing to mistreat you all like that, it is so likely she responds to him in reactivity and anger, too. Dr. Alice Benton: And they’re back and forth in their reactivity, and then he’s now a man and he’s getting bigger, and so it’s starting to look different. And the family doesn’t enjoy being around him. Have you guys — when he was younger — did you enjoy being together as a family with your sister and her husband and your nephew? Gigi: Well, my sister saved him. He was always bailed out. He had two older sisters, so he was always saying, “I’ll have what she’s having,” and “Oh, she’s going to help me with my homework,” things like that. He was given a lot of leniency because he was the baby. Dr. Jacqui Mack-Harris: The baby. Gigi: Yeah. If he just said “Mama” enough, he was going to get his way — or get a spanking. Dr. Jacqui Mack-Harris: So would the spanking be from Mom? Gigi: Oh yeah. Dr. Jacqui Mack-Harris: So he had a situation that might have been a little bit disorganized, and so he couldn’t tell if he’s going to get the wrath of Mom or the coddling of Mom. Gigi: That is true. Dr. Jacqui Mack-Harris: What was childhood like for you and your sister? Gigi: Well, I just want to touch on something else. My sister was a great mother. I know exactly what she was going through. I saw it up front. Dr. Jacqui Mack-Harris: No judgment. We all do the best we can with what we have. But what did you guys come out of? What did you see? How were you parented? Gigi: We had parents that were Christian. We all could have been better. But I can tell you, we had a sorrowful loss in 2007. My sister — she committed suicide. There’s too much to even go into, but the point is she was an angel. She loved Jesus, and she had some mental illness that — well, we failed her in fellowship, too. I feel like we did. My sister does not want another angel. Do you know what I mean? Dr. Alice Benton: Of course. So she might overprotect her son because she doesn’t want him to commit suicide. That completely makes sense. That is it. Dr. Alice Benton: So, Gigi, I think there are two things that you have in your power to do, because so much of this is outside of your ability to really control. You might consider a family intervention, because your nephew is the obvious problem, but you’re pointing out there is brokenness in the family — and there is in all of our families. A family interventionist, and we have a couple of great people that we can recommend, would be able to help decipher who most needs the intervention. The nephew looks like the obvious one, but he may not be the only one. An intervention brings to bear truth about how the chaotic behavior is affecting the family — that’s the way your sister abuses you, but it’s also the way the nephew abuses your sister. And it offers options for healing, but their response to that is out of your control, as you well know. And so if your sister continues to be abusive to you, you may have to start protecting yourself by limiting your exposure to her. She’s getting all this free therapy from you. Dr. Jacqui Mack-Harris: Oh, I wouldn’t call it therapy. Dr. Alice Benton: Well, you’re her good listening ear. But because you’re her main listener, I think she doesn’t know she needs more help, or she’s not willing or able to go get more professional help. And you need some of that responsibility taken off of your shoulders and transferred to a professional. I have the feeling your sister’s not real willing to get help. Gigi: Well, the good news on that end — all these months that I have been harping on “You need somebody to talk to, you need somebody to tell you how to talk it over with” — she’s got a therapist. Dr. Alice…
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