Mormon Stories Podcast

Latest Episodes:

1373: Zelph on the Shelf - 5 Years of Laughter, Wisdom, Healing, and Growth Dec 19, 2020

Show notes

Zelph on the Shelf is one of the most successful YouTube channels in history dedicated to exploring Mormonism in thoughtful and entertaining ways.

Five years ago I sat down with Samantha Shelley and Tanner Gilliland to discuss their loss of faith as "Mormon Millennials." That episode was extremely well-received at the time, and was highly influential in the journey of tens of thousands of Mormons, including Tyler Glenn (lead singer of Neon Trees).

Today's episode with Tanner and Samantha will be in two parts:

Part 1: Samantha and Tanner discuss the evolution and impact of Zelph on the Shelf over the past 5 years.

Part 2 (My favorite part): Samantha and Tanner discuss how they have healed and grown over the past 5 years in many of the domains most salient to transitioning Mormons, including: creativity, community, identity, mental health, spirituality, sexuality, finding meaning/purpose in their lives, and in thoughts about death and the afterlife.

Part 3: We end this interview by discussing Tanner and Samantha's perspective on the recent Mormon apologetic content released by FAIRMormon, featuring controversial apologist Kwaku El.

I found Samantha and Tanner to be incredibly thoughtful and wise, and am confident that you will thoroughly enjoy this episode.

1372: FAIRMormon and Mormon Apologetics in 2020 - Anthony D. Miller Dec 19, 2020

Show notes

Recently, the Mormon apologetic organization FAIRMormon has released several aggressive new videos via their YouTube Channel starring the actors Kwaku El, Cardon Ellis, and Brad Witbeck. These videos are intended to appeal to younger Latter-day saints, but also launch aggressive attacks against me (John Dehlin) and Jeremy Runnells (author of the CES Letter). The historical accuracy/honesty of these videos has also been called into question by many.

Today we interview Anthony D. Miller - a wise and thoughtful post-Mormon - about these latest events. Some of the topics we hope to cover are listed below. We would also welcome your questions/comments.

Topics for today:

Motivations behind Mormon apologetics.
Differences between Mormon apologetics and critical scholarship
Contrast traditional apologetics and more progressive, nuanced apologetics
Examples of people who have shifted from apologetics towards critical scholarship, and their explanations as to “the why.”
Examples of people who engage with critical scholarship, but operate within Mormonism with a mostly a metaphorical paradigm with an apologetic bent.
Contrast how GenZ, Millennials, GenX, and Baby Boomers engage with information.
How GenZ at times experiences fragility, catastrophizing, call-out culture, and perception of violence in speech, and how these things affect engagement with apologetics and scholarship. (Jonathan Haidt’s book, The Coddling of the American Mind).
Current spectrum of apologetics
Approaches and methods for distribution
1. Firesides and conferences
2. Radical Orthodoxy proclamation, Deznat, etc.
3. Adaptations to respond to social media, YouTube, TikTok
What we might expect going forward
Will this approach work? Will it backfire? Is it ethical?

1371: The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City - Heather Gay and Dre Nord Pt. 3 Dec 19, 2020

Show notes

Recently I was super fortunate to sit down with reality tv stars Heather Gay and Dre Nord - who are both currently appearing on BravoTV's "Real Housewives of Salt Lake City." In this three-part series, we focus on Heather and Dre's life experiences within the context of Mormonism (and Utah Mormonism).

Part 1 covers...

Heather and Dre's early years as devout Mormons.
Dre's marriage, divorce, and faith crisis as a Mormon in her early 20s. This includes how Dre navigated her life as a divorced single ex-Mormon Utah Mom without a college degree.
Heather's experiences at BYU and serving an LDS mission in France.
Heather's somewhat challenging efforts to find a faithful Mormon husband (Billy Gay).
Dre shares how she almost lost her mother to death by suicide, in part due to pressures of "perfectionism" that many Mormon women experience.
Heather shares some of the reactions she has received from members of the Mormon and ex-Mormon communities, as well as from the Utah LGBTQ community, regarding her participation in the show.

https://youtu.be/svHV0bQEHwA

Part 2 covers...

Heather's marriage to Billy Gay III, which culminated in Heather becoming Relief Society President ended in divorce.
How Heather and Dre met, and how they were able to build a successful, multi-million dollar business together (Beauty Lab Laser) as divorced Mormon single women in Utah.
Dre shares the tragic story of losing her brother to suicide last year, and how she and Heather created a 501c3 non-profit called "Don't Leave" to help "break the stigma around mental health."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtUYWOc_JOo&feature=youtu.be

Part 3 covers...

Heather's struggle to accept the end of her "Eternal Marriage," which included years of denial.
Heather's life as a divorced single Mom, which included experimentation with things she never considered trying as a devout Mormon (e.g. alcohol).
How Heather's perspective on Mormonism changed once she became dear friends with two wonderful gay Mormon men.
Heather and Dre discuss their opinions about how harmful the LDS Church's doctrine around LGBTQ members is.
Heather and Dre also discuss the ways in which the LDS Church's "Proclamation on the Famly" harms not only LGBTQ members, but also Mormon women/girls and men/boys as well.
Heather discusses her current struggle to reconcile her longstanding orthodox Mormon beliefs as they conflict with her developing beliefs about life.

This is a heartwarming, epic, and inspiring story of resilience. I was deeply moved by this vulnerability, wisdom, courage, and resilience of these inspiring women.

Please share any questions or comments you have for Heather and Dre below.

1370: The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City - Heather Gay and Dre Nord Pt. 2 Dec 18, 2020

Show notes

Part 1 covers...

Heather and Dre's early years as devout Mormons.
Dre's marriage, divorce, and faith crisis as a Mormon in her early 20s. This includes how Dre navigated her life as a divorced single ex-Mormon Utah Mom without a college degree.
Heather's experiences at BYU and serving an LDS mission in France.
Heather's somewhat challenging efforts to find a faithful Mormon husband (Billy Gay).
Dre shares how she almost lost her mother to death by suicide, in part due to pressures of "perfectionism" that many Mormon women experience.
Heather shares some of the reactions she has received from members of the Mormon and ex-Mormon communities, as well as from the Utah LGBTQ community, regarding her participation in the show.

https://youtu.be/svHV0bQEHwA

Part 2 covers...

Heather's marriage to Billy Gay III, which culminated in Heather becoming Relief Society President ended in divorce.
How Heather and Dre met, and how they were able to build a successful, multi-million dollar business together (Beauty Lab Laser) as divorced Mormon single women in Utah.
Dre shares the tragic story of losing her brother to suicide last year, and how she and Heather created a 501c3 non-profit called "Don't Leave" to help "break the stigma around mental health."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtUYWOc_JOo&feature=youtu.be

Part 3 covers...

Heather's struggle to accept the end of her "Eternal Marriage," which included years of denial.
Heather's life as a divorced single Mom, which included experimentation with things she never considered trying as a devout Mormon (e.g. alcohol).
How Heather's perspective on Mormonism changed once she became dear friends with two wonderful gay Mormon men.
Heather and Dre discuss their opinions about how harmful the LDS Church's doctrine around LGBTQ members is.
Heather and Dre also discuss the ways in which the LDS Church's "Proclamation on the Famly" harms not only LGBTQ members, but also Mormon women/girls and men/boys as well.
Heather discusses her current struggle to reconcile her longstanding orthodox Mormon beliefs as they conflict with her developing beliefs about life.

This is a heartwarming, epic, and inspiring story of resilience. I was deeply moved by this vulnerability, wisdom, courage, and resilience of these inspiring women.

Please share any questions or comments you have for Heather and Dre below.

URGENT: Has Mormon Stories Podcast Destroyed or Helped Your Family? Please Share Your Story. Dec 15, 2020

Show notes

Mormon Stories Listeners,

I really need your help. The Mormon Church is funneling millions of dollars each year into non-profit "charities" like the More Good Foundation and FAIRMormon to smear my name and Jeremy Runnell's name, in hopes of destroying the positive impact of Mormon Stories Podcast. Watch any cult documentary. It's what cults do.

In a recent video released by paid actors supported by FAIRMormon and the More Good Foundation, Kwaku El, Brad Witbeck, and Cardon Ellis make the claim that I and Mormon Stories (and Jeremy Runnells) are intentionally "homewrecking for profit" with the work we do. Here's a clip of their lies.

https://youtu.be/3jYZNBwsS3Q?t=86

I could really use your help in the following way:

Please record a short video or write out a paragraph or two describing if/how Mormon Stories Podcast has helped (or harmed) your family.
Feel free to include what role (if any) the LDS Church, and/or apologetic sites like FAIRMormon played in promoting family health and unity, or in harming your family.
Please email your videos to me here: mormonstories@gmail.com, or you can message them to me on Facebook.
Or if you prefer to write your story, please do so in the comments below.
Please know that these videos and/or this text could be used publicly.

This would mean the world to me, and will help blunt the lies that FAIRMormon, Cardon, Kwaku, Brad, and the More Good Foundation are telling people.

Thank you so, so much for your support.

John Dehlin

1369: The Real Housewives of Salt Lake City - Heather Gay and Dre Nord Pt. 1 Dec 10, 2020

Show notes

Recently I was super fortunate to sit down with reality tv stars Heather Gay and Dre Nord - who are both currently appearing on BravoTV's "Real Housewives of Salt Lake City."

In this two-part series, we focus on Heather and Dre's experiences as Mormons. Topics covered in today's episode include:

Heather and Dre's early years as devout Mormons.
Dre's marriage, divorce, and faith crisis as a Mormon in her early 20s.
Heather's experiences at BYU and serving an LDS mission in France.
Heather's somewhat challenging efforts to find a faithful Mormon husband (Billy Gay).
Heather also provides glimpses into her emerging Mormon faith crisis, which she is currently in the middle of processing.
Heather shares some of the reactions she has received from members of the Mormon and ex-Mormon communities, as well as from the Utah LGBTQ community, regarding her participation in the show.

This is a heartwarming and inspiring story of resilience. I was deeply moved by this vulnerability, wisdom, courage, and resilience of these inspiring women.

Next week we plan to share Part 2 of this interview, which will cover:

Heather's marriage to Billy Gay III, which ended in divorce.
Dre's life as a single Mom in Utah.
How Heather and Dre met, and how they were able to build a successful, multi-million dollar business together as divorce Mormon single women in Utah (Beauty Lab Laser).
Heather will go into more detail about her Mormon faith crisis.
Heather and Dre will share their perspectives on life today, as highly successful entrepreneurial non-practicing Mormon single moms in Utah.

1368: Mormon Apologist Non-Profits and Violence Dec 09, 2020

Show notes

In today’s episode we will provide an overview of several LDS church apologetic non-profits, and discuss recent concerns about dishonesty, mean-spiritedness, and the incitement of violence by some people associated with these Mormon apologist non-profits. The Mormon apologetic non-profits that we will be discussing today include: the More Good Foundation, the Mormon Interpreter Foundation, Book of Mormon Central, and FAIRMormon.

1367: Paul Cardall - World-Renowned Pianist Dec 09, 2020

Show notes

Paul Cardall battled long odds from birth, eventually triumphing over a serious heart disability to earn distinction as an outstanding composer and pianist. In 1997 he first won widespread notice by setting author Richard Paul Evans’ No. 1 NY Times best-seller The Christmas Box to music. Cardall’s achievements range from releasing 11 chart-topping albums, winning the Gospel Music Association Dove Award for Instrumental Album of the Year, collaborating with Grammy-winning singer CeCe Winans, Audrey Assad, The Piano Guys among other distinguished artists.

With over 2 billion streams, Cardall is one of the most listened to Steinway & Sons sponsored artist in music business. His entrepreneurial activities include founding and directing the Stone Angel Music label and recording studio, promoting medical research and providing scholarships for congenital heart disease through his foundation. Cardall’s music has included works for piano, vocal, band and orchestral settings. On his latest album, Peaceful Piano, he returns to his solo performance roots while exploring complete real-time improvisation for the first time.

Paul's Mormon story includes:

Growing up in Salt Lake City, Utah, learning to "fit in" as a child and youth with a heart condition.
Serving an LDS mission, and marrying in an LDS temple.
Paul's rise to celebrity as a piano performer - first in Salt Lake City, then joining the LDS Church speaking/inspiration circuit, and ultimately becoming a world-renowned musician, with hundreds of millions of Spotify downloads.
Paul's receipt of a human heart transplant, and his recovery.
Paul's struggles to maintain a healthy/happy marriage, ultimately leading to his disfellowshipment from the LDS Church and a shaming public divorce.
Paul's remarriage to a non-LDS woman, and his invitation to co-author a Mormon hymn with LDS Church apostle David A. Bednar called "One by One."
Paul's loss of testimony in the LDS Church, and his discovery of a new faith in traditional, non-denominational Christianity.

Cardall’s story is continuing to evolve as an artist, author and humanitarian. His upcoming album The Broken Miracle, which will be available for pre-order this December, was inspired by J.D. Netto’s biographical fictional novel, based on real events in the artists life from being born with only half a heart, enduring a series of surgeries, which culminated in a heart transplant. While waiting for a donor heart, the pianist’s brother was tragically killed. The album will feature several award-winning guests including David Archuleta, Ty Herndon, Thompson Square, Neon Tress’ Tyler Glenn and more.

We hope you enjoy this episode! Paul is a fantastic human.

1366: Whiteness Theology and the Evolution of Mormon Racial Teachings - Matt Harris Dec 09, 2020

Show notes

In 2014 the LDS Church released an essay entitled "Race and the Priesthood" as part of its Gospel Topics Essays Initiative. This essay was groundbreaking in that it officially renounced past LDS racist teachings regarding blacks and the LDS Priesthood. This essay has been highly controversial. Some see it as groundbreaking positive progress. Some see it as deceptive and/or inadequate. Others lost their faith in the LDS Church because of it.

Today on Mormon Stories Podcast we interview Dr. Matt Harris who recently published an analysis of the Race and Priesthood essay. Matt's essay is entitled "Whiteness Theology and the Evolution of Mormon Racial Teachings." This essay is contained within the newly released book entitled "The LDS Gospel Topics Series: A Scholarly Engagement" published by Signature Books (edited by Matt Harris and Newell G. Bringhurst).

Click here to purchase this very important book: https://www.amazon.com/LDS-Gospel-Topics-Scholarly-Engagement/dp/1560852879

1365: The LDS Gospel Topics Essays - A History by Dr. Matt Harris Dec 09, 2020

Show notes

Join me now as I interview historian Dr. Matt Harris about his new book entitled "The LDS Gospel Topics Series: A Scholarly Engagement" published by Signature Books. In this episode we will provide an overview of the book, and discuss the events that led to the release of the essays by the LDS Church.

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