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Making Tech Better – Made Tech — Technology
Making Tech Better – Made Tech

Made Tech provide Digital, Data and Technology services to the UK public sector

Latest Episodes:

Product management and STEM Diversity, with Karl Dickman Apr 12, 2022

Why is product management the perfect background for a STEM ambassador? In this final episode of Season One Clare Sudbery talks to Karl Dickman, Senior Product Manager at the Department for Work and Pensions, about what good product management looks like, and how to make sure that people from all backgrounds know what choices are available in Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics (STEM).

Karl Dickman is Senior Product Manager at DWP Digital. He’s a self-proclaimed Product nerd, instrumental in taking ideas from the drawing board and making them an operational reality. His personal mantra is designing with his users and not for them.

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Our theme tune is “For The Miles” by Richard Murray.

Episode links: DWP Digital, John D. Carmack, STEM Northeast, Stemettes, Anne-Marie Imafidon, Spacefest (at NET Zero), Dawn Ross.

Visit https://tinyurl.com/podcast-making-tech-better for links and info.

Servant leadership, with Katy Armstrong Mar 29, 2022

What is servant leadership, and how can you use it to help your teams fly? Clare Sudbery talks to Katy Armstrong about how to empower teams to do their absolute best work, by removing blockers, identifying vision and giving them everything they need.

Katy Armstrong is Head of Digital Delivery at the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities. She’s led digital teams at the Home Office, the Valuation Office, and GDS.

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Our theme tune is “For The Miles” by Richard Murray.

Episode links: Emma Charles, Clare Young, Richard Blake, Jason Yip, Katy’s blog about assessment, alpha assessment report, Spotify engineering culture, pairing and micromanagement, Nayeema Chowdhury, DLUHC jobs.

Visit https://tinyurl.com/podcast-making-tech-better for links and info.

LGBT+ History, with Alex Herbert Mar 15, 2022

What does the current landscape look like for LGBT+ people working in IT? Clare Sudbery talks to Alex Herbert about some inspirational LGBT+ figures in our industry, and about how employees and colleagues can create a welcoming environment to enable people across the LGBT+ spectrum to come to work as themselves.

Alex is a senior engineer at Made Tech, and has been heavily involved in working to make the organisation more diverse, inclusive and equitable for all its colleagues. She is a volunteer at a local charity and a local trans healthcare pilot. Alex enjoys chess, local and independent music, fine teas, comfy chairs and videogames.

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Our theme tune is “For The Miles” by Richard Murray.

Episode links: Katie Neeves, LBGT+ History Month, Stonewall, Stonewalls Diversity Champions, Alan Turing, Sophie Wilson, Lynn Conway, Angelica Ross, Pose, TransTech, Sally Ride, Audrey Tang, Tim Cook, LGBT Foundation, What The Trans!?, What The Trans?! Podcast, Owen Bush & Bushfire Forge.

Visit https://tinyurl.com/podcast-making-tech-better for links and info.

Open source landscape, with Ryan Bergman Mar 01, 2022

How is Open Source Software maintained? Clare Sudbery talks to Ryan Bergman about the OSS landscape – how open source is licensed and maintained, how to respond to security threats and why continuous integration improves your ability to keep everything up to date.

Ryan Bergman is a software developer, public speaker, and open source maintainer. Senior Staff Engineer at John Deere Intelligent Solutions Group, he works on systems that allow farmers to control, share and analyse their agronomic data.

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Our theme tune is “For The Miles” by Richard Murray.

Episode links: Ryan’s blog, Tim Ottinger, Jeff Langr, Chris Matts, Liz Keogh.

Visit https://tinyurl.com/podcast-making-tech-better for links and info.

Inclusive teams, with Dr J Harrison Feb 15, 2022

How do you make your teams inclusive? Clare Sudbery talks to Dr. J Harrison about mental health, pronouns, the difference between diversity and inclusion, unconscious bias, creating safe spaces and how to be an ally to those in under-represented groups.

Dr. J Harrison is ThoughtWorks’ Harbinger of Change. Out as Transgressive Non-Binary GenderQueer for over 10 years, they bring queer theory (with a slice of humour) into the tech space, focusing on inclusivity and intersectionality and taking a strategic view of cultural change in Technology.

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Our theme tune is “For The Miles” by Richard Murray.

Episode links: Dr J Harrison, Kief Morris, Infrastructure as Code, Queer House Party, It is complicated (podcast).

Visit https://tinyurl.com/podcast-making-tech-better for links and info.

Hexagonal architecture, with Ted M. Young Feb 01, 2022

What is hexagonal architecture, and how can it help to make your code more testable? Clare Sudbery talks to Ted M. Young about the benefits and principles of hexagonal architecture, and how it enables you to keep your domain logic independent from the outside world.

Ted M. Young is a trainer, coding coach, speaker, and author who specialises in getting those new to the industry off on the right foot with a focus on testing, domain-driven design, and learning how to learn.

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Our theme tune is “For The Miles” by Richard Murray.

Episode links: Ted M. Young, Martin Fowler, Michelle Glauser, Techtonica, Alistair Cockburn, Geepaw Hill, Hexagonal Architecture, Clean Architecture, Onion Architecture, Moving Diversity Forward by Vernā Myers.

Visit https://tinyurl.com/podcast-making-tech-better for links and info.

Inspirational stories, with Catt Small Jan 18, 2022

How can you avoid designing harmful experiences? Product designer Catt Small talks to Clare Sudbery about her journey from 10-yr-old game developer to successful product designer, and shares many inspirational stories – including the creation of the Game Devs of Color Expo, helping marginalised people to progress in their careers and fundamentally getting things done.

Catt Small is a product designer, game maker and developer who enjoys creating interactive experiences at Asana and helping people to become their best selves.

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Our theme tune is “For The Miles” by Richard Murray.

Episode links: Lara Hogan, Dennis Liaw, Chris Algoo, Shawn Alexander Allen, GJ Lee, Brian Chung, Sara Wachter-Boettcher, Catt on Twitter, Catt’s website, Prism Shell (game), Asana’s design team, Game Devs of Color Expo.

Visit https://tinyurl.com/podcast-making-tech-better for links and info.

Good Services, with Lou Downe Jan 04, 2022

What does a good service look like? Clare Sudbery talks to Lou Downe about why placing the user at the heart of everything will lead to good services that are discoverable, will cross organisational boundaries and do exactly what you need them to do.

Lou Downe is the author of the service design bible, Good Services. Previously Head of User Centered Design and Service Standards at the Government Digital Service (GDS), Lou now runs the School of Good Services.

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Our theme tune is “For The Miles” by Richard Murray.

Episode links: Peter Tatchell, School of Good Services, Good Services (Lou’s book), Notes on Nursing, by Florence Nightingale, Sarah Drummond, Section 28

Visit https://tinyurl.com/podcast-making-tech-better for links and info.

Microservices, with Sam Newman Dec 07, 2021

Are microservices all hype, or the best choice for delivering software? Kyle Chapman talks to Sam Newman about architectural thought, the importance of experimentation, and some classic technology patterns.

Sam Newman literally wrote the book on microservices, and is an independent technology consultant with a special interest in microservices and continuous delivery.

As mentioned in the episode, we’re giving away a few free copies of Sam’s book – contest entries go to makingtechbetter@madetech.com, closing Tue 21st Dec.

NOTE: Because of the Christmas break there will be no episode on Tue 21st Dec 2021. The next episode will go out on Tue 4th Jan 2022.

Join our “Connect” mailing list to find out more about Made Tech

Our theme tune is “For The Miles” by Richard Murray.

Episode links: Martin Falck, Landscape.cncf.io, Kelsey Hightower, Bridget Kromhout, Angie Jones, Martin Fowler, Sarah Wells, Daniel Bryan, Learning.oreilly.com, David Parnas: On the Criteria To Be Used in Decomposing Systems into Modules, Team Topologies, by Matthew Skelton and Manuel Pais, Frank Buschmann, Gregor Hohpe

Visit https://tinyurl.com/podcast-making-tech-better for links and info.

How to build an academy, with Craig Bass Nov 23, 2021

How do you recruit and train new software engineers? At Made Tech we run a regular academy programme, which allows us to address the IT skills shortage, increase diversity and reap many more benefits. Clare Sudbery talks to Craig Bass about how to run a successful academy.

Applications for our January 2022 academy are now open! Closing date is 30th Nov 2021. All details here.

Craig Bass is a principal technologist at Made Tech, and was responsible for curating and delivering our academy programme before Clare Sudbery took it over in 2020. Craig has helped many of our engineers to kickstart their careers in tech, and is a highly astute technologist.

Join our “Connect” mailing list to find out more about Made Tech and discover which of Craig’s facts was true/false!

Our theme tune is “For The Miles” by Richard Murray.

Episode links: Frank Amankwah, Hillel Wayne, Practical TLA+, by Hillel Wayne, Mutation testing, Kent Beck’s TCR testing method, “Agile Learning” – EduScrum, Netherlands, Apply to join our 2022 Academy.

Visit https://tinyurl.com/podcast-making-tech-better for links and info.

Refactoring, with Emily Bache Nov 09, 2021

What is refactoring, why is it important and how can you get really good at it? Clare Sudbery talks to Emily Bache about enhancing the skills and culture of your teams, to make your code easier to understand and cheaper to modify.

Emily Bache is a Technical Agile Coach who supports developers and aspiring technical coaches with effective methods for teaching and learning practices like Test-Driven Development and Refactoring. Emily has authored several books and training courses, most recently Technical Agile Coaching with the Samman method.

Join our “Connect” mailing list.

Our theme tune is “For The Miles” by Richard Murray.

Episode links: Kent Beck, Jez Humble, Dave Farley, Martin Fowler, Geepaw Hill, Llewellyn Falco, Martin Fowler’s book, Technical Agile Coaching with the Samman method, by Emily Bache, The Mikado Method, Emily’s GitHub, Clare’s refactoring article.

Visit https://tinyurl.com/podcast-making-tech-better for links and info.

When is a test not a test? with Daniel Terhorst-North Oct 26, 2021

When is a test not a test? Clare Sudbery talks to Daniel Terhorst-North about all things testing – including why unit tests are not tests, and why “Test Driven Development” would be better named “Example Guided Design.”

Daniel Terhorst-North is a technology and organisational change specialist who has been coaching, coding and consulting for over 25 years. He applies systems thinking, lean and agile principles to solving complex business and technical problems.

Join our “Connect” mailing list.

Our theme tune is “For The Miles” by Richard Murray.

Episode links: The Fearless Organisation, by Prof Amy Edmondson, Google’s Project Aristotle, Dr Nicole Forsgren, Virginia Satir, The Pragmatic Programmer, by Andy Hunt and Dave Thomas, The Goal by Eli Goldratt, We need to talk about testing – article by Daniel , Kent Beck on Stack Overflow about writing as few tests as possible, Paul Zenon, Liz Keogh on Randy Silver’s podcast re estimation, Daniel’s website, Daniel at Goto 2021, Daniel (Tastapod) on Twitter

Visit https://tinyurl.com/podcast-making-tech-better for links and info.

Black history month: Diversity and training, with Charlene Hunter Oct 12, 2021

October is black history month, so in this themed episode Clare Sudbery talks to Charlene Hunter, about providing professional training opportunities that create positive experiences for Black women in the face of discrimination and under-representation.

Charlene Hunter is the CEO and Founder of Coding Black Females, a nonprofit organisation to inspire, provide opportunities, and showcase the talents of Black women in tech. She is also the co-founder of Meet Up and Code.

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Our theme tune is “For The Miles” by Richard Murray.

Episode links: Coding Black Females, Charlene on Twitter.

Visit https://tinyurl.com/podcast-making-tech-better for links and info.

Team Topologies, with Matthew Skelton Sep 28, 2021

How should teams be organised for maximum effectiveness? How big should they be, where should the boundaries lie and how independent should they be? Clare Sudbery talks to Matthew Skelton about how to get the best from your teams.

Matthew Skelton is co-author of the Team Topologies book. Head of Consulting at Conflux, he specialises in Continuous Delivery, operability and organisation dynamics for software in manufacturing, ecommerce, and online services.

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Our theme tune is “For The Miles” by Richard Murray.

Episode links: Ruth Malan, Clare Sutcliffe MBE, Daniel Terhorst-North, Gene Kim, Original DevOps team structure blog post, Manuel Pais, Mel Conway’s paper – How Do Committees Invent?, Matthew on Twitter, “Platform as a Product” video course.

Visit https://tinyurl.com/podcast-making-tech-better for links and info.

Test Driven Development, with Geepaw Hill Sep 14, 2021

What is Test Driven Development (TDD) and how can it speed up your software development? Clare Sudbery talks to Geepaw Hill about why he loves TDD so much and how he spreads that love to software teams all over the world.

Geepaw Hill became a professional computer programmer in 1980. Around twenty years ago he became an avid early-adopter of Extreme Programming (XP), and has been teaching XP techniques to software organisations all over the world ever since.

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Our theme tune is “For The Miles” by Richard Murray.

Episode links: Ron Jeffries, Nyari Samushonga, We Think Code, Liz Keogh, Emily Bache, Joe Rainsberger, James Grenning, Jim Shore, Alice Goldfuss on DevJourney, Geepaw on Twitter, Geepaw’s website.

Visit https://tinyurl.com/podcast-making-tech-better for links and info.

Crowdsourcing, with Dr Mia Ridge Aug 31, 2021

What is crowdsourcing, and how is it used to improve the British Library’s online cultural heritage collections? Clare Sudbery talks to crowdsourcing expert Dr Mia Ridge about the power of volunteer digital engagement.

Dr Mia Ridge is the British Library’s Digital Curator for Western Heritage Collections, where she provides support, training and guidance on applying computational research methods to historical collections.

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Our theme tune is “For The Miles” by Richard Murray.

Episode links: Meghan Ferriter, Sam Blickhan from Zooniverse, Living with Machines project, The old weather project, National Library of Australia’s Trove project, Flickr Commons, https://twitter.com/ukglo, The Collective Wisdom Handbook, Mia on Twitter, Mia’s blog, Mia’s website, British Library crowdsourcing, Zooniverse, From the Page (old handwriting).

Visit https://tinyurl.com/podcast-making-tech-better for links and info.

Digital accessibility, with Jonathan Hassell Aug 17, 2021

How do you maximise digital accessibility, and how might your software be inaccessible? Clare Sudbery talks to Jonathan Hassell about considering and balancing the diverse needs of all digital users.

Jonathan Hassell provides strategic accessibility transformation services to organisations worldwide. He has just delivered the new international accessibility standard ISO 30071-1.

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Our theme tune is “For The Miles” by Richard Murray.

Episode links: Mark Webb, Shift MS, Disability at the Table podcast, Hassell Inclusion, Accessibility Myths, Hi Hub, MadeByDyslexia.org, Hemingway app, free Hassell Inclusion book on digital products, Delusions of Gender by Cordelia Fine.

Visit https://tinyurl.com/podcast-making-tech-better for links and info.

Communities of Practice, with Emily Webber Aug 03, 2021

What does a good community of practice look like? Kyle Chapman talks to Emily Webber about how we can use communities to facilitate good collaboration between our teams.

Emily Webber is an independent agile and delivery consultant, conference speaker, and the author of Building Successful Communities of Practice.

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Our theme tune is “For The Miles” by Richard Murray.

Episode links: Margaret Heffernan, Wilful Blindness, Robin Dunbar, Paper on CoP by Emily and Robin Dunbar, Assisted Serendipity blog post, Steve Jobs / Pixar book, Agile in the Ether, Emily on Twitter.

Visit https://tinyurl.com/podcast-making-tech-better for links and info.

Service Design, with Fritz von Runte Jul 20, 2021

How do you design public-facing services so that users get the best experiences? Clare Sudbery talks to Fritz von Runte about the difference between art and design, and how to make the most of service design with a collaborative, multi-disciplinary approach.

Fritz von Runte is a Mancunian Service Designer obsessed with the North, improving public sector services and multi-disciplinary product development.

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Our theme tune is “For The Miles” by Richard Murray.

Episode links: Abby Covert, Leisa Reichelt, Jeff Gothelf, Dan Ariely, Lisa Jeffery, Kit Collingwood, Clare Moriarty, Lou Downe – 15 principles of Good Services.

Visit https://tinyurl.com/podcast-making-tech-better for links and info.

Changing legacy systems, with Meri Williams Jul 06, 2021

What can you learn from working with legacy code? Meri Williams talks to Clare Sudbery about respecting your predecessors, the impact of failure, the value delivered by the code that’s running right now, and the benefit of frequent software releases.

Meri Williams is an experienced CTO, a published author, an international speaker, chair of The Lead Developer conference, tech advisor for Kindred Capital and a trustee at Stonewall, the UK’s leading LGBTQ+ rights charity.

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Our theme tune is “For The Miles” by Richard Murray.

Episode links: Camille Fournier, Lara Hogan, Maria Gutierrez, Gina Trapani, Jessie Link, The blue and white marbles post, Lou Downe – Good Services, Becky Stafford – Adapting testing for engineers, Meri on Twitter, Lead Dev Together.

Visit https://tinyurl.com/podcast-making-tech-better for links and info.

Women in Engineering day, with Dr. Anne-Marie Imafidon, MBE Jun 22, 2021

To celebrate Women in Engineering day on 23rd June, Clare Sudbery talks to Anne-Marie Imafidon about why women need to be in the room at all levels of technology, and to some of our female senior engineers about their experiences in the industry.

Dr Anne-Marie Imafidon, MBE is the CEO of Stemettes, the host of the Women Tech Charge podcast, and in 2020 was voted the Most Influential Woman in Tech in the UK by Computer Weekly.

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Our theme tune is “For The Miles” by Richard Murray.

Episode links: Stemettes, Let it Go / So to Speak (Dame Stephanie Shirley), Gladys West, Women Tech Charge podcast, Charlene Hunter / Coding Black Females, Invisible Women, AImafidon on Twitter, Anne-Marie on Instagram, Anne-Marie’s book, Women in Tech: Take Your Career to the Next Level with Practical Advice and Inspiring Stories.

Visit https://tinyurl.com/podcast-making-tech-better for links and info.

Balancing change, with Kevlin Henney Jun 08, 2021

Change is a balancing act – how do you help teams get better without causing chaos? Join Kevlin and host Clare Sudbery as they talk about how teams learn and evolve, the importance of autonomy, and why train stations keep an eye out for “a Kevlin Henney”.

Kevlin Henney is an independent consultant, speaker, writer and trainer in software development. He’s written and edited many great books, including 97 Things Every Programmer Should Know.

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Our theme tune is “For The Miles” by Richard Murray.

Episode links: Linda Rising, Russel Winder.

Visit https://tinyurl.com/podcast-making-tech-better for links and info.

People and patterns, with Esther Derby LIVE May 25, 2021

Organisations are complex adaptive systems – they change constantly as a result of the interactions between teams and individuals. Esther Derby joins Clare Sudbery in a LIVE launch-party episode, to talk about how an understanding of Human Systems Dynamics can help you to spot dysfunctional patterns of behaviour and help people to find positive ways of connecting with one another.

Acclaimed expert and author, Esther Derby draws on four decades of experience leading, observing, and living organizational change.

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Our theme tune is “For The Miles” by Richard Murray.

Episode links: GeePaw Hill, Ron Jeffries, Jessica Kerr, Peter Senge, Glenda Eoyang, Esther’s YouTube, Change the World for a Fiver, Kat Arney.

Visit https://tinyurl.com/podcast-making-tech-better for links and info.

Retrospectives anti-patterns, with Aino Corry May 11, 2021

Retrospectives are fantastic tools for emphasising your team’s strengths and identifying areas for improvement. But do your team appreciative their usefulness and know how to harness their full power? Aino Corry talks to Clare Sudbery about problematic retrospectives – how to spot them and how to improve them.

Aino Vonge Corry has a Ph.D. in Computer Science and runs Metadeveloper, which develops developers by teaching CS and how to teach it, and facilitates software development in various ways.

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Our theme tune is “For The Miles” by Richard Murray.

Episode links: Retrospectives Antipatterns book, Linda Rising, Project Retrospectives by Norm Kerth, Agile Retrospectives by Diana Larsen and Esther Derby, The prime directive, Jessica Kerr’s episode, Why We Sleep by Matthew Walker.

Visit https://tinyurl.com/podcast-making-tech-better for links and info.

Toxic technology, with Dave Rogers Apr 27, 2021

Is your technology toxic? Clare Sudbery talks to Dave Rogers about how surprisingly willing people can be to work around rubbish technology rather than try and fix it. Dave tells us about the cultural and financial causes that can lead to wrong solutions and bad support structures.

Dave Rogers is a technology and digital specialist, with leadership experience in digital delivery and transformation, user-centred service and policy design, and cyber security.

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Our theme tune is “For The Miles” by Richard Murray.

Episode links: Abisọla Fátókun, Hospital technology video, St Johns Ambulance.

Visit https://tinyurl.com/podcast-making-tech-better for links and info.

Tech for the common good, with Kit Collingwood Apr 13, 2021

How do you upgrade technology for a modern urban council authority, while simultaneously keeping spending within reasonable limits and looking after the diverse needs of your citizens? Clare Sudbery talks to Kit Collingwood about the Royal Borough of Greenwich’s new tech strategy, and the people that really matter – the population of Greenwich.

Kit Collingwood is Assistant Director for Digital and Customer Services at the Royal Borough of Greenwich in London. She is passionate about better service delivery, diverse and inclusive teams, working in the open, contributing to community, and empathetic leadership.

What did you think? Give us feedback on this episode.

Join our “Connect” mailing list.

Our theme tune is “For The Miles” by Richard Murray.

Episode links: Kylie Havelock, Dave Rogers, Cassie Robinson, RBG 1, RBG 2.

Visit https://tinyurl.com/podcast-making-tech-better for links and info.

Coding for fun, with Jon Skeet Apr 13, 2021

What’s the difference between coding for fun and coding for your job? Clare Sudbery chats to Jon Skeet, who is famous for the book C# in depth and infamous for his Stack Overflow contributions. Clare and Jon talk about Jon’s open source contributions, his side project (a drum kit explorer), and how this work connects with his day job as a Google engineer.

Jon Skeet‘s Twitter profile describes him as “Christian, husband (of Holly Webb, the children’s author), father, feminist, software engineer (currently at Google), author, @stackoverflow contributor. He/him.” Jon works on the Google Cloud Client Libraries for .NET, and other things like the .NET Functions Framework.

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Our theme tune is “For The Miles” by Richard Murray.

Episode links: Eric Lippert, Mads Torgerson, C# in depth, Everyday sexism, Huit Enfants et un Bebe.

Visit https://tinyurl.com/podcast-making-tech-better for links and info.

Transformation and modernisation, with Paula Paul Apr 13, 2021

What does transformation mean to you? Clare Sudbery speaks to Paula Paul about her long experience of software modernisation. Paula explains the difference between adaptive and technical problems, discusses the challenges involved in moving systems to the cloud, and introduces the strangler pattern as a way of gradually introducing new ways of working.

Paula Paul is a Distinguished Engineer with Greyshore Associates, where she works with organizations pursuing cloud adoption strategies and implementation. She’s had roles in product development, engineering management, consulting, and she’s led several modernization efforts along the way.

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Our theme tune is “For The Miles” by Richard Murray.

Episode links: Strangler pattern, Ruth Malan, Fred Brooks, Buckminster Fuller, UK blood donation.

Visit https://tinyurl.com/podcast-making-tech-better for links and info.

Team learning, with Jessica Kerr Apr 13, 2021

Do your teams embrace learning? Clare Sudbery catches up with Jessica Kerr and asks her what symmathesy is. Jess tells us how we are constantly creating the next versions of ourselves; how we can enhance the learning feedback loop and build better collaboration – both within and between our teams.

Jessica Kerr is a software developer who works on the larger sociotechnical system: a Symmathecist, in the medium of code. Find her at jessitron.com, on Twitter as @jessitron, occasionally on Twitch as Jessitronica, hosting podcasts on Greater than Code and Arrested DevOps, and leading workshops at systemsthinking.dev.

Join our “Connect” mailing list.

Our theme tune is “For The Miles” by Richard Murray.

Episode links: Eric Evans, Jabe Bloom, Kent Beck, Hillel Wayne, Honeycomb.

Visit https://tinyurl.com/podcast-making-tech-better for links and info.

Making Tech Better – Trailer Apr 12, 2021

Let’s make tech even better!

Coming soon: Made Tech’s new podcast, Making Tech Better.

Luckily for all of us, there are tons of passionate experts out there just bursting to share what they know about improving software delivery. Every fortnight, Clare Sudbery and other members of our team will interview enthusiastic practitioners from all over the world.

We want you to come away from our podcasts with a smile on your face, a spring in your step and a bunch of useful new ideas in your back pocket – not just for your software delivery, but for your whole life.

Join our “Connect” mailing list.

Our theme tune is “For The Miles” by Richard Murray: https://richardmurraymusic.bandcamp.com/

Visit our website for more info: https://tinyurl.com/MTB-podcast-blubrry

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