Stay current on JavaScript, Node, and Front-End development. Learn from experts in programming, careers, and technology every week.
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Stay current on JavaScript, Node, and Front-End development. Learn from experts in programming, careers, and technology every week.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber–6102064/support.
Copyright: © Copyright Charles M Wood
Panel:
- Charles Max Wood
- Aimee Knight
- Chris Ferdinandi
- Joe Eames
Special Guest: https://github.com/Heydon In this episode, the panel talks with Heydon Pickering who is a designer and writer. The panel and the guest talk about his new book, which is centered on the topic of today’s show: inclusive components. Check out Heydon’s https://twitter.com/heydonworks, http://www.heydonworks.com/about, https://github.com/Heydon and https://mastodon.social/@heydon social accounts to learn more about him. To purchase the book – https://shop.smashingmagazine.com/products/inclusive-design-patterns Show Topics:0:00 – https://www.telerik.com/kendo-ui?utm_campaign=kendo-ui-awareness-jsjabber&utm_medium=social-paid&utm_source=devchattv 0:38 – Chuck: Aimee, Chris, Joe, and myself – we are today’s panel. My show the http://thedevrev.com is available online to check it out.1:30 – Guest: Plain ice cream would be frozen milk and that would be terrible. So I am lemon and candy JavaScript!2:13 – Chuck: We are talking today about...?2:22 – Chris: He’s talking about “inclusive components” today!2:41 – Guest: Traveling is very stressful and I wanted something to do on the plane. I’ve done this book, https://shop.smashingmagazine.com/products/inclusive-design-patterns If you don’t want to buy the book you can go to the blog. I have been talking with Smashing Magazine.5:40 – Panel.5:47 – Guest: I approached Smashing Magazine initially. They didn’t think there was a market for this content at the time. They were very supportive but we will do it as an eBook so our costs our down. At the time, the editor came back and said that: “it was quite good!” We skimmed it but came back to it now and now the content was more relevant in their eyes. I didn’t want to do the same book but I wanted to do it around “patterns.” Rewriting components is what I do all the time. I use Vanilla JavaScript. http://backbonejs.org is the trendy one.9:52 – Panel: The hard book did it get published?10:02 – Guest: We are in the works and it’s all in the final stages right now. It has to go through a different process for the print version.11:54 – Panel.11:58 – (Guest continues about the editorial process.) 12:09 – Panel: They probably switched to https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/tfs/ 12:23 – Guest: There was this argument on Twitter about the different processors.13:35 – Chris: What are the ways that people are breaking accessibility with their code through JavaScript? 13:59 – Guest: The whole premise is that there aren’t a ton of different components that we use. Generally, speaking. Most things we do through JavaScript – it’s just different ways of doing this/that, and hiding things. I am discounting things with Node or other stuff. Most of what we are doing, with interactive design, is showing and hiding.18:37 – Chris: I have some specialty friends where they tell me where I’ve screwed up my code. For example Eric Bailey and Scott O’Hara but, of course, in very kind ways. What are some things that I can make sure that my code is going to work for many different people.19:18 – Guest: You have accessibility and inclusive design. People think of accessibility as a check-list and that’s okay but there could be problems with this.26:00 – Panel: That’s a great guideline.26:05 – Chris: You talked about ARIA roles and it can be confusing. One side is: I don’t know when to use these and the other side is: I don’t know when NOT to use these so I’m going to use them for EVERYTHING! I guess both can be detrimental. What’s your advice on this topic?27:00 – Guest: Scott is great and I would trust him to the end of the Earth about what he says.Guest mentions https://tink.uk and her talks about this topic.29:26 – (Guest continues.) 29:36 – https://sentry.io/welcome/ 30:31 – Chris.30:40 – Guest: There is a lot of pressure, though, right? People wouldn’t blog about this if it wasn’t worthwhile. It doesn’t matter what the style is or what the syntax is.The guest talks about not throwing ARIA onto everything.36:34 – Aimee: Is this something that was mentioned in the book: people with disabilities and accessibility.37:28 – Guest: Yes, of course. I think it’s important to make your interfaces flexible and robust to think and include people with disabilities.39:00 – Guest mentions larger buttons. 40:52 – Panelists and Guest talk back-and-forth. 42:22 – Chris: It’s an accessibility and inclusivity element. I saw a dropdown menu and worked great on certain devices but not others. I could beat this horse all day long but the whole: what happens of the JavaScript file doesn’t load or just accordion options?43:50 – Guest: It’s the progressive enhancement element.44:05 – Guest: I think it’s worth noting. I think these things dovetail really nicely.46:29 – Chris: Did you do a video interview, Aimee, talking about CSS? Is CSS better than JavaScript in some ways I don’t know if this is related or not?47:03 – Aimee: When I talk about JavaScript vs. CSS...the browser optimizes those.47:27 – Aimee: But as someone who loves JavaScript...and then some very talented people taught me that you have to find the right tool for the job.47:29 – Guest: I am the other way around – interesting.52:50 – Chuck: Picks!52:55 – https://devchat.tv/get-a-coder-job/ END – https://www.cachefly.com Links:
- https://www.javascript.com
- http://backbonejs.org
- https://visualstudio.microsoft.com/tfs/
- https://tink.uk
- https://reactjs.org
- https://elixir-lang.org
- Ember.js
- https://vuejs.org
- https://golang.org/project/
- http://jquery.com
- https://nodejs.org/en/
- https://github.com/GoogleChrome/puppeteer
- https://www.cypress.io
- https://github.com/Heydon
- https://mastodon.social/@heydon
- https://shop.smashingmagazine.com/products/inclusive-design-patterns
- https://codeburst.io/heydon-pickering-accessibility-responsibility-and-inclusive-design-6fd8ae9883b8
- http://www.heydonworks.com
- https://twitter.com/heydonworks
Sponsors:
- https://devlifts.io
- https://www.telerik.com/kendo-ui?utm_campaign=kendo-ui-awareness-jsjabber&utm_medium=social-paid&utm_source=devchattv
- https://sentry.io/welcome/
- https://www.cachefly.com
Picks:Joe
- https://gomakethings.com/
- https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/245643/luxor
- http://cypress.io/
Aimee
- https://threader.app/thread/1058433116002381824
- https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0764FYSNF?aaxitk=2FWeizqoAJkDZQs18ygELQ&hsa_cr_id=7362091710401&pd_rd_i=B0764FYSNF&pf_rd_p=3ff6092e-8451-438b-8278-7e94064b4d42&sb-ci-a=B0764FYSNF&sb-ci-n=asinImage&sb-ci-v=https%253A%252F%252Fimages-na.ssl-images-amazon.com%252Fimages%252FI%252F41DNdyq2%252B-L.jpg
Chris
- Web Dev Career Guide: https://gomakethings.com/career-guide/
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.
Panel:
- Charles Max Wood
- Aimee Knight
- Chris Ferdinandi
- AJ O’Neal
Special Guest: Andy BellIn this episode, the panel talks with Andy Bell who is an independent designer and developer who uses React, Vue, and Node. Today, the panelists and the guest talk about the power of progressive enhancements. Check it out!Show Topics:0:00 – https://www.telerik.com/kendo-ui?utm_campaign=kendo-ui-awareness-jsjabber&utm_medium=social-paid&utm_source=devchattv 0:34 – Chuck: Hi! Our panel is AJ, Aimee, Chris, myself and my new show is coming out in a few weeks, which is called the http://thedevrev.com It helps you with developer’s freedom! I am super excited. Our guest is Andy Bell. Introduce yourself, please.2:00 – Guest: I am an independent designer and developer out in the U.K.2:17 – Chuck: You wrote things about Vanilla.js. I am foreshadowing a few things and let’s talk about the power and progressive enhancement.2:43 – The guest gives us definitions of power and progressive enhancements. He describes how it works. 3:10 – Chuck: I’ve heard that people would turn off JavaScript b/c it was security concern and then your progressive enhancement would make it work w/o JavaScript. I am sure there’s more than that?3:28 – The guest talks about JavaScript, dependencies, among other things. 4:40 – Chuck: Your post did make that very clear I think. I am thinking I don’t even know where to start with this. Are people using the 6th version? How far back or what are we talking about here?5:09 – Guest: You can go really far back and make it work w/o CSS.5:49 – Chris: I am a big advocate of progressive enhancement – the pushback I get these days is that there is a divide; between the broadband era and AOL dialup. Are there compelling reasons why progressive enhancements even matter?6:48 – Guest.8:05 – Panel: My family lives out in the boonies. I am aware of 50% of American don’t have fast Internet. People don’t have access to fast browsers but I don’t think they are key metric users.8:47 – Guest: It totally depends on what you need it for. It doesn’t matter if these people are paying or not.9:31 – Chris: Assuming I have a commute on the trail and it goes through a spotty section. In a scenario that it’s dependent on the JS...are we talking about 2 different things here?10:14 – Panelist chimes-in. 10:36 – Chris: I can take advantage of it even if I cannot afford a new machine.10:55 – Panel: Where would this really matter to you?11:05 – Chris: I do have a nice new laptop.11:12 – Chuck: I had to hike up to the hill (near the house) to make a call and the connection was really poor (in OK). It’s not the norm but it can happen.11:37 – Chris: Or how about the All Trails app when I am on the trail.11:52 – Guest.12:40 – Chris: I can remember at the time that the desktop sites it was popular to have...Chris: Most of those sites were inaccessible to me.13:17 – Guest.13:51 – Chuck: First-world countries will have a good connection and it’s not a big deal. If you are thinking though about your customers and where they live? Is that fair? I am thinking that my customers need to be able to access the podcast – what would you suggest? What are the things that you’d make sure is accessible to them.14:31 – Guest: I like to pick on the minimum viable experience? I think to read the transcript is important than the audio (MP3).15:47 – Chuck.15:52 – Guest: It’s a lot easier with Vue b/c you don’t’ have to set aside rendering.17:13 – AJ: I am thinking: that there is a way to start developing progressively and probably cheaper and easier to the person who is developing. If it saves us a buck and helps then we take action.17:49 – Guest: It’s much easier if you start that way and if you enhance the feature itself.18:38 – AJ: Let me ask: what are the situations where I wouldn’t / shouldn’t worry about progressive enhancements?18:57 – Guest answers the question. 19:42 – AJ: I want people to feel motivated in a place WHERE to start. Something like a blog needs Java for comments. https://vtldesign.com/web-strategy/website-design-development/hamburger-icon-flyout-menu-website-navigation/ is mentioned, too. 20:20 – Guest.21:05 – Chris: Can we talk about code?21:16 – Aimee: This is the direction I wanted to go. What do you mean by that – building your applications progressively?https://andy-bell.design/writing/21:44 – Guest.22:13 – Chuck: I use stock overflow!22:20 – Guest.22:24 – Chuck: I mean that’s what Chris uses!22:33 – Guest (continues).23:42 – Aimee.23:54 – Chris.24:09 – Chris24:16 – Chris: Andy what do you think about that?24:22 – Guest: Yes, that’s good.24:35 – Chris: Where it falls apart is the resistance to progressive enhancements that it means that your approach has to be boring?25:03 – Guest answers the question. The guest mentions modern CSS and modern JavaScript are mentioned along with tooling.25:50 – Chuck: My issue is that when we talk about this (progressive enhancement) lowest common denominator and some user at some level (slow network) and then they can access it. Then the next level (better access) can access it. I start at the bottom and then go up. Then when they say progressive enhancement I get lost. Should I scrap it and then start over or what?26:57 – Guest: If it’s feasible do it and then set a timeline up.27:42 – Chuck: You are saying yes do it a layer at a time – but my question is HOW? What parts can I pair back? Are there guidelines to say: do this first and then how to test?28:18 – https://sentry.io/welcome/ 29:20 – Guest: Think about the user flow. What does the user want to do at THIS point? Do you need to work out the actual dependencies?30:31 – Chuck: Is there a list of those capabilities somewhere? So these users can use it this way and these users can use it that way?30:50 – Guest answers the question. 31:03 – Guest: You can pick out the big things.31:30 – Chuck: I am using this feature in the browser...31:41 – Guest.31:46 – Chris: I think this differently than you Andy – I’ve stopped caring if a browser supports something new. I am fine using CSS grid and if your browser doesn’t support it then I don’t have a problem with that. I get hung up on, though if this fails can they still get the content? If they have no access to these – what should they be able to do?Note: “Cutting the Mustard Test” is mentioned. 33:37 – Guest.33:44 – Chuck: Knowing your users and if it becomes a problem then I will figure it out.34:00 – Chris: I couldn’t spare the time to make it happen right now b/c I am a one-man shop.34:20 – Chuck and Chris go back-and-forth. 34:36 –Chris: Check out links below for my product.34:54 – AJ: A lot of these things are in the name: progressive. 36:20 – https://andy-bell.design 38:51 – Chris: Say that they haven’t looked at it all before. Do you mind talking about these things and what the heck is a web component?39:14 – The guest gives us his definition of what a web component is. 40:02 – Chuck: Most recent episode in Angular about web components, but that was a few years ago. See links below for that episode.40:25 – Aimee.40:31 – Guest: Yes, it’s a lot like working in Vue and web components. The concepts are very similar.41:22 – Chris: Can someone please give us an example? A literal slideshow example?41:45 – Guest answers the question. 45:07 – Chris.45:12 – Guest: It’s a framework that just happens to use web components and stuff to help.45:54 – Chuck: Yeah they make it easier (Palmer). Yeah there is a crossover with Palmer team and other teams. I can say that b/c I have talked with people from both teams. Anything else?46:39 – Chuck: Where do they go to learn more?46:49 – Guest: https://webcomponents.club And my Twitter! (See links below.)47:33 – Chuck: I want to shout-out about https://devlifts.io that has $19 a month to help you with physical goals. Or you can get the premium slot! It’s terrific stuff. Sign-up with DEVCHAT code but there is a limited number of slots and there is a deadline, too. Just try it! They have a podcast, too!49:16 – Aimee: http://podcast.devlifts.io 49:30 – Chuck: Picks!END – https://www.cachefly.com Links:
- https://www.javascript.com
- https://reactjs.org
- https://elixir-lang.org
- Ember.js
- https://vuejs.org
- https://golang.org/project/
- http://jquery.com
- https://nodejs.org/en/
- https://github.com/GoogleChrome/puppeteer
- https://www.cypress.io
- https://devchat.tv/adv-in-angular/115-aia-polymer-and-web-components-with-angular-2-with-rob-dodson/
-
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.
Panel:
- AJ O’Neal
- Joe Eames
- Jesse Sanders
Special Guest: https://github.com/freshcutdevelopment In this episode, the panel talks with https://github.com/freshcutdevelopment who is a software developer, speaker, rock climber, and author of https://www.manning.com/books/aurelia-in-action! Today, the panelists and Sean talk about https://aurelia.io and other frameworks. Check it out!Show Topics:0:00 – https://www.telerik.com/kendo-ui?utm_campaign=kendo-ui-awareness-jsjabber&utm_medium=social-paid&utm_source=devchattv 0:38 – Joe: Hello! Our panelists are AJ, Jesse, myself, and our special guest is https://github.com/freshcutdevelopment (from Australia)! What have you been doing with your life and what is your favorite movie?1:45 – Guest talks about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegemite 2:20 – Guest: I was in the UK and started using https://aurelia.io, which I will talk about today. I have done some talks throughout UK about Aurelia. Also, the past year moved back to Australia had a baby son and it’s been a busy year. Writing a book and being a new parent has been hard.3:22 – Panel: Tell us the history of https://aurelia.io, please?3:31 – Panel: Is it like http://jquery.com, https://reactjs.org https://vuejs.org or what?3:44 – Guest: Elevator pitch – Aurelia is a single-page app framework! It’s most similar to Vue out of those frameworks; also, similarities to https://www.emberjs.com 4:30 – Guest goes into detail about Aurelia. 6:15 – Panel: It sounds like convention over configuration.6:42 – Guest: Yes that is correct.7:21 – Panel: Sounds like there is a build-step to it.7:39 – Guest: There is a build-step you are correct. You will use https://webpack.js.org in the background.9:57 – The guest talks about data binding among other things. 10:30 – Guest: You will have your app component and other levels, too.10:37 – Panel: I am new to https://aurelia.io and so I’m fresh to this. Why Aurelia over the other frameworks? Is there a CLI to help?11:29 – Guest: Let me start with WHY https://aurelia.io and not the other frameworks. The style that you are using when building the applications is important for your needs. In terms of bundling there is a CUI and that is a way that I prefer to start my projects. Do you want to use CSS or Webpack or...? It’s almost a wizard process! You guys have any questions about the CLI?14:43 – Panel: Thanks! I was wondering what is actually occurring there?15:25 – Guest: Good question. Basically it’s that Aurelia has some built-in conventions. Looking at the convention tells Aurelia to pick the Vue model by name. If I need to tell the framework more information then...17:46 – Panel: I think that for people who are familiar with one or more framework then where on that spectrum would Aurelia fall?18:20 – Guest: It’s not that opinionated as Ember.js.19:09 – Panel: Talking about being opinionated – what are some good examples of the choices that you have and how that leads you down a certain path? Any more examples that you can give us? 19:38 – Guest: The main conventions are what I’ve talked about already. I can’t think of more conventions off the top of my head. There are more examples in my book.20:02 – Panel: Your book?20:10 – Guest: Yep.20:13 – Panel.20:20 – Guest. 21:58 – Panel: Why would I NOT pick Aurelia?22:19 – Guest: If you are from a React world and you like having things contained in a single-file then Aurelia would fight you. If you want a big company backing then Aurelia isn’t for you.The guest goes into more reasons why or why not one would or wouldn’t want to use Aurelia.24:24 – Panel: I think the best sell point is the downplay!24:34 – Guest: Good point. What does the roadmap look like for Aurelia’s team?25:00 – Guest: Typically, what happens in the Aurelia framework is that data binding (or router) gets pushed by the core team. They are the ones that produce the roadmap and look forward to the framework. The core team is working on the NEXT version of the framework, which is lighter, easier to use, and additional features. It’s proposed to be out for release next year.26:36 – https://sentry.io/welcome/ 27:34 – Panel: I am going to take down the CLI down and see what it does. I am looking at it and seeing how to teach someone to use it. I am using AU, new command, and it says no Aurelia found. I am stuck.28:06 – Guest: What you would do is specify the project name that you are trying to create and that should create it for you. 28:40 – Panel.28:45 – Panel.28:50 – Panel: Stand up on your desk and say: does anyone know anything about computers?!29:05 – Panelists go back-and-forth. 29:13 – Panel: What frameworks have you used in the past?29:17 – Guest: I was using single-paged apps back in 2010.31:10 – Panel: Tell us about the performance of Aurelia?31:17 – Guest: I was looking at the benchmarks all the time. Last time I looked the performance was comparable. Performances can me measured in a number of different of ways.The guest talks about a dashboard screen that 20 charts or something like that. He didn’t notice any delays getting to the client. 33:29 – Panel: I heard you say the word “observables.”33:39 – Guest answers the question. 35:30 – Guest: I am not a https://redux.js.org expert, so I really can’t say. It has similar actions like https://redux.js.org but the differences I really can’t say.36:11 – Panel: We really want experts in everything! (Laughs.)36:25 – Panelist talks about a colleagues’ talk at a conference. He says that he things are doing too much with SPAs. They have their place but we are trying to bundle 8-9 different applications but instead look at them as...What are your thoughts of having multiple SPAs?37:17 – Guest.39:08 – Guest: I wonder what your opinions are? What about the splitting approach?39:22 – Panel: I haven’t looked at it, yet. I am curious, though. I have been developing in https://golang.org lately.40:20 – Guest: I think people can go too far and making it too complex. You don’t want to make the code that complex.40:45 – Panel: Yeah when the code is “clean” but difficult to discover that’s not good.41:15 – Guest: I agree when you start repeating yourself then it makes it more difficult.41:35 – Panel: Chris and I are anti-framework. We prefer to start from a fresh palette and see if a framework can fit into that fresh palette. When you start with a certain framework you are starting with certain configurations set-in-place. 42:48 – Joe: I like my frameworks and I think you are crazy!43:05 – Panel.43:11 – Joe: I have a love affair with all frameworks.43:19 – Panel: I think I am somewhere in the middle.43:49 – Panel: I don’t think frameworks are all bad but I want to say that it’s smart to not make it too complex upfront. Learn and grow.44:28 – Guest: I think a good example of that is http://jquery.com right?45:10 – Panelist talks about C++, jQuery, among other things. 45:34 – Guest: Frameworks kind of push the limits.46:08 – Panelist talks about JavaScript, frameworks, and others.47:04 – Panel: It seems simple to setup routes – anything to help with the lazy way to setup?47:35 – Guest answers question. 48:37 – Panel: How do we manage complexity and how does messaging work between components?48:54 – Guest: The simple scenario is that you can follow a simple pattern, which is (came out of Ember community) and that is...Data Down & Actions Up!50:45 – Guest mentions that https://aurelia.io 51:00 – Panel: That sounds great! Sounds like the pattern can be plugged in easily into Aurelia.51:17 – Picks!51:20 – https://devchat.tv/get-a-coder-job/ END – https://www.cachefly.com Links:
- https://www.javascript.com
- https://reactjs.org
- https://redux.js.org
- https://webpack.js.org
- https://elixir-lang.org
- Ember.js
- https://vuejs.org
- https://golang.org/project/
-
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.
Panel:
Panel:
Panel:
Panel:
- http://www.aimeemarieknight.com
- AJ O’Neal
- Aaron Frost
- https://2013.boston.wordcamp.org/speakers/
Special Guests: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cwbuecheler In this episode, the panel talks with https://www.linkedin.com/in/cwbuecheler who is an author, blogger, web developer, and founder of CloseBrace. The panel and Christopher talk about stepping outside of your comfort zone. With a technological world that is ever changing, it is important to always be learning within your field. Check out today’s episode to learn more!Show Topics:0:00 – https://www.telerik.com/kendo-ui?utm_campaign=kendo-ui-awareness-jsjabber&utm_medium=social-paid&utm_source=devchattv 1:08 – Aimee: Our guest is Christopher Buecheler – tell us about yourself and what you do.1:22 – https://www.linkedin.com/in/cwbuecheler I run a site and help mid-career developers. I put out a weekly newsletter, too.2:01 – Aimee: It says that you are a fan of “getting comfortable being uncomfortable”?2:15 – Guest: I am a self-taught developer, so that means I am scrambling to learn new things all the time. You are often faced with learning new things. When I learned React I was dumped into it. The pain and the difficulty are necessary in order to improve. If you aren’t having that experience then you aren’t learning as much as you could be.3:26 – Aimee: I borrow lessons that I learned from ice-skating to programming.3:49 – Guest: I started running a few years ago for better health. It was exhausting and miserable at the start and wondered why I was doing it. Now I run 5 times a week, and there is always a level of being uncomfortable, but now it’s apart of the run. It’s an interesting comparison to coding. It’s this idea of pushing through.5:01 – Aimee: If you are comfortable you probably aren’t growing that much. In our industry you always have to be learning because things change so much!5:25 – Guest: Yes, exactly. If you are not careful you can miss opportunities.6:33 – Panel: You have some ideas about frameworks and libraries – one thing that I am always anxious about is being able to make sense of “what are some new trends that I should pay attention to?” I remember interviewing with someone saying: this mobile thing is just a fad. I remember thinking that she is going to miss this opportunity. I am worried that I am going to be THAT guy. How do you figure out what sort of things you should / shouldn’t pay attention to?7:47 – Guest: It is a super exhausting thing to keep up with – I agree. For me, a lot of what I pay attention to is the technology that has the backing of a multi-million dollar company then that shows that technology isn’t going anywhere, anytime soon. The other thing I would look at is how ACTIVE is the community around it?9:15 – Panel: Is there a strategic way to approach this? There is so many different directions that you can grow and push yourself within your career? Do you have any kinds of thoughts/tips on how you want your career to evolve?10:00 – Guest: I am trying to always communicate better to my newsletter audience. Also, a good approach, too, is what are people hiring for? 11:06 – Aimee: Again, I would say: focus on learning.11:30 – Panel: And I agree with Aimee – “learn it and learn it well!”12:01 – Panel: I want to ask Chris – what is https://blog.closebrace.com 12:17 – Guest: I founded it in November 2016, and started work on it back in 2013.14:20 – Panel: It was filled with a bunch of buzz worthy words/title.14:32 – Guest continues his thoughts/comments on https://blog.closebrace.com 16:54 – Panel: How is the growth going?17:00 – Guest: It is growing very well. I put out a massive, massive tutorial course – I wouldn’t necessarily advice that people do this b/c it can be overwhelming. However, growth this year I have focused on marketing. I haven’t shared numbers or anything but it’s increased 500%, and I am happy about it.18:05 – Panel: Are you keeping in-house?18:13 – Guest: I think it would be cool to expand, but now it is in-house. I don’t want to borrow Egg Head’s setup. I would love to cover MORE topics, though.19:05 – Panel: You are only one person.19:08 – Guest: If I can get the site creating more revenue than I can hire someone to do video editing, etc.19:35 – Panel: I think you are overthinking it.19:45 – Guest.19:47 – https://sentry.io/welcome/ 20:47 – Guest.21:30 – Aimee: There are SO many resources out there right now. Where do you think you fit into this landscape?21:44 – The landscape is cluttered, but I feel that I am different b/c of my thoroughness. I don’t always explain line by line, but I do say how and why things work. I think also is my VOICE. Not my radio voice, but the tone and the approach you take with it.23:25 – Panel: I was trying to copy folks in the beginning of my career. And at some point I realized that I needed to find my own style. It always came down to the reasons WHY I am different rather than the similarities. Like, Chris, you have these quick hits on CloseBrace, but some people might feel like they don’t have the time to get through ALL of your content, because it’s a lot. For me, that’s what I love about your content.24:46 – Christopher: Yeah, it was intentional.25:36 – Panel: Good for you.25:49 – https://www.linkedin.com/in/cwbuecheler I am super device agnostic: Android, Mac, PC, etc. I have a lot of people from India that are more Microsoft-base.26:28 – Aimee: I think Egghead is pretty good about this...do you cover testing at all with these things that you are doing? It’s good to do a “Hello World” but most of these sites don’t get into MORE complex pieces. I think that’s where you can get into trouble. It’s nice to have some boiler point testing, too.27:18 – Guest answers Aimee’s question. 28:43 – Aimee: We work with a consultancy and I asked them to write tests for the things that we work with. That’s the value of the testing. It’s the code that comes out.29:10 – Panel: Can you explain this to me. Why do I need to write tests? It’s always working (my code) so why do I have to write a test?29:39 – Guest: When working with AWS I was writing...31:01 – Aimee: My biggest thing is that I have seen enough that the people don’t value testing are in a very bad place, and the people that value testing are in a good place. It even comes back to the customers, because the code gets so hard that you end up repeatedly releasing bugs. Customers will stop paying their bills if this happens too often for them.33:00 – Panel: Aimee / Chris do you have a preferred tool? I have done testing before, but not as much as I should be doing.33:25 – Aimee: I like https://jestjs.io and https://github.com/smooth-code/jest-puppeteer 33:58 – Guest: I like https://jestjs.io, too.34:20 – Aimee: Let’s go to PICKS!34:35 – https://devchat.tv/get-a-coder-job/ Links:
- https://www.javascript.com
- https://jquery.com
- https://reactjs.org
- https://elixir-lang.org
- http://elm-lang.org
- http://closebrace.com
- https://jestjs.io
- https://github.com/smooth-code/jest-puppeteer
- https://podflix.app
- https://github.com/wting/autojump
- https://brutalist-web.design
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrR_gm6RqCo
- https://balloonfiesta.com
- https://www.docz.site
- http://closebrace.com
- http://cwbuecheler.com
- https://www.linkedin.com/in/cwbuecheler
- https://github.com/cwbuecheler
- https://gomakethings.com
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Panel:
Panel:
Panel:
- http://www.aimeemarieknight.com
- https://twitter.com/cmaxw?lang=en (DevChat TV)
- https://2013.boston.wordcamp.org/speakers/
- https://twitter.com/josepheames
Special Guests: https://twitter.com/justinbmeyer?ref_src=twsrc%255Egoogle%257Ctwcamp%255Eserp%257Ctwgr%255Eauthor In this episode, the panel talks with https://twitter.com/justinbmeyer?ref_src=twsrc%255Egoogle%257Ctwcamp%255Eserp%257Ctwgr%255Eauthor who is a co-author of DoneJS, CanJS, jQueryPP, StealJS, and DocumentJS. Justin currently works for https://www.bitovi.com/about and is their Director of R&D. He is also a fan of basketball and Michael Jackson. The panel and Justin talk about CanJS in-detail – check it out!Show Topics:0:58 – https://radiopublic.com/all-javascript-podcasts-by-devcha-WwEoX8/ep/s1!3b9d2 1:14 – Chuck: Can you tell everyone who you are?1:20 – Justin tells us his background.1:50 – Chuck.1:58 – Justin.2:06 – Chuck: Can you give us an introduction to what CanJS 4.0?2:11 – Justin: It is a JavaScript framework and is similar to Vue. It adds a very model layer, and uses Real Time very well.2:44 – Panelist.2:49 – Justin.2:55 – Panelist: What is the current...3:09 – Justin: Compatibility is very important to us. A lot of the same tools are still available. It has over 80 different repositories.Justin continues to talk about the differences/similarities between the different versions.4:55 – Panelist: Angular, React, and Vue are dominating, so I have 2 questions.1.) Where is the core strength of JS and its user base?2.) What is like to be the CanJS when everyone is talking about the other programs?5:31 – Justin: We have dealt with this for the past 10 years. Emotionally it’s not great, I wished it was more popular, but our priority is keeping our user-based happy. We’ve had big companies use it.Justin answers the second question.8:44 – Panelist: You mentioned two things.9:22 – Aimee: I think everything has trade-offs. I would use something because it was the right tool for the job. I wouldn’t want to make something that was “cool.” I would want to make it super accessible in a network.10:10 – Justin: That is a great marketing angle. We are trying to remove the worst parts of the program.10:26 – Now I am intrigued.10:32 – Justin: You have this mutable state and you aren’t sure. At least for https://twitter.com/canjs?lang=en I don’t see that occurring too often.10:54 – Aimee.10:58 – Justin: Deep inheritance is definitely a problem and it can create...11:13 – Aimee.11:19 – Justin: We have changed strategies a lot, and I think it’s helped https://twitter.com/canjs?lang=en grow; like 60% since January. We are doing a lot of user studies now. I run Meetups, etc. That being said inheritance schemes aren’t something that people will encounter. This is something that they won’t encounter months down the road.13:00 – Aimee.13:05 – Panelist: I would like to dig deeper into state-management. Everyone is doing Flux, talk about that with CanJS.13:20 – Justin: Yeah. It depends on what kind of user you are talking to. When I talk to new users off the street (people who just graduated, etc.)...If you look at React’s statistics – more than 50% doesn’t use any state management.16:15 – Panelist: I think it’s interesting that there are people that aren’t “oh my gosh...”16:43 – Justin: The last coolest thing I’ve done is...18:02 – Justin continues.18:16 – Panelist: I kind of have this belief that we as a community turn to frameworks and tools too much. From your perspective when does it make sense to turn to a tool like this or better off working with native...18:56 – It depends on how complex your app is and our ability to work through those problems. I think that’s a generic answer, but hopefully that helps. I don’t think you really can’t live without.19:49 – Panelist: I think that’s fair. One thing that I found is that there are many things layered into state-management. Because you mentioned performance, which is something I care about, too. At what point does the extra tooling become too heavy for the user’s experience? Where do you draw the line?21:11 – Justin: It depends. I don’t know what the parallel is – it’s like a richer developer problem. You have too many users where you can make those fine tuned adjustments. Do whatever is going to deliver the product first and then worry about performance later? I think our things are geared towards performance by default.22:41 – Panelist: Playing devil’s advocate, though. But isn’t there some danger in kind of suggesting that you focus on performance WHEN it’s a business issue? Maybe there is there a lack of empathy among developers. I worry that advice is hurting us.23:53 – Justin: No matter what you can build your homepage with Angular weird monstrosity, but then when you get to the point when people are using your product – you can just use native HTML, and native methods and build that one widget and as easy and fast as possible.24:50 – Panelist: Dealing with complexity. Now we need to do things like bundlers, and such to deal with this issue. I feel like a crotchety old man yelling because it takes forever.25:38 – Justin: I think it depends on where you are sitting. I think that comes down to the design. If your design has a lot of complex states, then...26:37 – Panelist: Because you care about performance...26:54 – https://sentry.io/welcome/ 27:53 – Justin: I don’t think that the run time of https://twitter.com/canjs?lang=en is going to be a critical performance path for anybody. Is there a responsibility? This is the oldest question. It’s like saying: where do you draw the line that you need to choose success/be elected to fight the battles if you really want to win.You need someone using your product or it doesn’t really matter. Start-ups use our product because they need to get something up and in. I am going to flip this back onto you guys.30:48 – Panelist: I think that’s fair.31:00 – Aimee: I have a question. You got into consultancy when do you recommend using CanJS or something else?31:15 – Justin: I always suggest people using CanJS.31:53 – Aimee: What do these people do when their contract is over? I have used an older version of Can, and...32:20 – Justin: Are you on https://github.com/gitterHQ?Aimee: No, I am not.32:25 – Justin: We do offer promote job posting to help them find somebody. We try our best to help people in any way we can.33:05 – Aimee: That’s helpful. Another question.33:28 – Justin: DoneJS is that. It uses the full kitchen sink. That’s what DoneJS is.33:50 – Panelist: Let’s talk about CanJS in the mark-up. Do you think it’s better now or worse than 2012? Less space or more space?34:13 – Justin: It’s probably worse. I think the methodology that we are using: focusing on our users. We get their feedback frequently. We are listening to our users, and I think we are being smarter.35:16 – Panelist: Is the space getting more welcoming or less?35:31 – It depends on what framework you are. It’s very hard to compete if you are the exact same thing as...The market is so dense and there are so many ideas, so it’s getting harder and harder. What helps people break-through? Is it the technology or the framework?36:36 – Panelist: I appreciate the richness of the field, as it exists right now. There aren’t a few things SMELT and ELM37:10 – Justin: Elm for sure. I don’t have a lot of experience with SMELT.37:23 – Panelist continues the talk.37:54 – Chuck.38:00 – Justin: I think it spreads by word-of-mouth. I used to think it was “technology” or... all that really matters is “can you deliver” and the person have a good experience.Usability is the most important to me. We will see how this turns out. I will be either right or wrong.39:18 – Panelist: Can we talk about the long-term future of Can JS?39:28 – Justin: We are connecting to our user-base and making them happy. If I had it my way (which I don’t anymore) I think https://reactjs.org/docs/jsx-in-depth.html is the best template language. We have been building integrations between JSX and...I am putting out proposals where most people don’t like them.Justin continues this conversation.44:24 – Picks!44:28 -https://devchat.tv/get-a-coder-job/ Links:
- https://www.javascript.com
- https://jquery.com
- https://reactjs.org
- https://elixir-lang.org
- http://elm-lang.org
- https://vuejs.org
- https://polyfill.io/v2/docs/
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