IndoctriNation

Latest Episodes:

Owning Your Autonomy w/ Journey Into Yoga Cults Mar 16, 2022

Show notes

Rachel Nelson, Chelle Swierz, and Melissa Longfellow were all teachers and leaders for many years in the Baptiste Yoga organization - a high-control yoga system led by Baron Baptiste that claims to be changing the world through its “methodology.” During that time they dedicated their careers and much of their personal lives to the group and the leader, believing that what they were doing was healing the planet. After each having their pivotal moment at different times, they re-connected to process their experience together and discover that what felt indescribably “off” was the result of cult indoctrination techniques. They subsequently started a podcast to share their experiences and educate people about the dangers in Baptiste Yoga: thought control, manipulation, coercion, and the charismatic leader. Each of them is now focused on taking back their own life and enjoying life exactly as they choose it. They join Rachel again this week to talk about their collective experience in hopes of informing others about the dark side of this very popular and powerful organization. In this second half of their two-part conversation, our guests pick up where they left off, with Melissa and Rachel providing more detail on their experiences with Baron and his organization. The dialogue is then opened up to examine the iceberg that is Baptise Yoga pointing out the many common red flags all three women have noticed in retrospect. Rachel offers her insights into the healing process that these brave women have begun. Before You Go: Rachel shares her thoughts on consent and autonomy in the yoga world and recommends safeguards that should be in place in all yoga settings. Listen to Journey Into Yoga Cults here: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/jour…ts/id1599860304 Follow Journey Into Yoga Cults on IG: @bpyi_yoga_truth @yogacultspod Find Rachel's book "Now I Know: Kids Talking To Kids About Divorce..." here: www.amazon.com/Now-I-Know-Rachel…ein/dp/1620867893 Thanks to our newest Patreon supporters Anna W. and Kate B!!! To help support the show monthly and get bonus episodes, shirts, and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION You can help the show for free by leaving a rating on Spotify or Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show!
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Trauma Bond Pose w/ Journey Into Yoga Cults Mar 09, 2022

Show notes

Rachel Nelson, Chelle Swierz, and Melissa Longfellow were all teachers and leaders for many years in the Baptiste Yoga organization - a high-control yoga system led by Baron Baptiste that claims to be changing the world through its “methodology.” During that time they dedicated their careers and much of their personal lives to the group and the leader, believing that what they were doing was healing the planet. After each having their pivotal moment at different times, they re-connected to process their experience together and discover that what felt indescribably “off” was the result of cult indoctrination techniques. They subsequently started a podcast to share their experiences and educate people about the dangers in Baptiste Yoga: thought control, manipulation, and coercion and the charismatic leader. Each of them is now focused on taking back their own life and enjoying life exactly as they choose it. They join Rachel to talk about their collective experience in hopes of informing others about the dark side of this very popular and powerful organization. In the first half of this two-part conversation, the three guests introduce themselves and explain how they first got involved with Baptiste yoga, their first impressions of Baron, and some red flags they've come to understand in retrospect. Before you go: Rachel offers further insights into some of what the guests shared with her, pointing out some of the ridiculous ironies of the group's "empowering self-help" message and the dangers inherent in this type of deception. Listen to Journey Into Yoga Cults here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/journey-into-yoga-cults/id1599860304 Follow Journey Into Yoga Cults on IG: @bpyi_yoga_truth @yogacultspod Find Rachel's book "Now I Know: Kids Talking To Kids About Divorce..." here: www.amazon.com/Now-I-Know-Rachel…ein/dp/1620867893 Thanks to our newest Patreon supporter Alana H! To help support the show monthly and get bonus episodes, shirts, and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION You can help the show for free by leaving a rating on Spotify or Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show!
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Self Help Hostage w/ Kelly Thiel Mar 02, 2022

Show notes

Kelly Thiel is a highly sought-after speaker and consultant to families and organizations regarding high-demand groups, cults, and narcissistic personalities. She is dedicated to helping people reclaim their freedom and begin their own healing journeys. Kelly has experience as a member of the Executive Success Program/NXIVM, a high-demand group whose leader was convicted of federal crimes, including sex trafficking. Kelly was also featured with Rachel in the STARZ documentary Seduced: Inside The NXIVM Cult. Her involvement with NXIVM led her to study other high-demand groups and cults of personality like Bhagwan Shri Rajneesh (Osho) and Bikram Choudhury. Her lifelong journey and personal experience as a seeker of human potential and spirituality taught her to identify the many methods used by high-demand groups, cults of personality, and narcissists to attract, indoctrinate, and control their followers and people in their circle of influence. She understands how to identify the red flags, suggest a course of action, and recommend professional resources for interventions to help affected families and organizations. Kelly is set to release her first book this year, “Unapologetically Glorious”, inspiring others to be their own guru and to take ownership, take action and take back control. In this intimate and bravely vulnerable conversation, Kelly shares invaluable insight into her time in NXIVM. She outlines the dangerous and traumatic "Exploration of Meaning"sessions she witnessed and experienced herself as a member of the "Executive Success Program" Throughout the conversation Rachel gives Kelly the opportunity to reexamine her impressions of the NXIVM community in retrospect. Kelly explains the relationship dynamics she had with the leaders, some of whom are now serving prison time for their roles in the group. Finally, Kelly explains the gradual shift away from the group and the catalyst that ultimately led to her freedom. Before You Go: Rachel addresses some of the red flags that are heavily pronounced in the inflated egos of narcissistic leaders like Keith Ranerie, reflecting on the epic hypocrisy of their demand for accountability. You can see Rachel, and Kelly in the documentary Seduced: Inside the NXIVM Cult: https://seduceddocumentary.com/ Find more info on Kelly and her upcoming book here: http://kellythielbook.com/ Find Rachel's book "Now I Know: Kids Talking To Kids About Divorce..." here: www.amazon.com/Now-I-Know-Rachel…ein/dp/1620867893 Thanks to our newest Patreon supporters: Heather Christiansen, Rachel Biffin, MaryBeth Dorn, Esther Friedman, and Kateland Harte!! To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination shirts and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION You can help the show for free by leaving a rating on Spotify or Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show!
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Collateral Damage w/ India Oxenberg Feb 23, 2022

Show notes

India Oxenberg is a successful film producer, writer, and actress. India is a national ambassador for RAINN (Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network), the nation's largest anti-sexual violence organization. She is also the daughter of our previous guest Catherine Oxenberg who Rachel worked with while India was involved in NXIVM, the infamous multi-level marketing company that was later exposed as a sex cult. While in NXIVM, India was introduced to the cult's inner circle and was groomed to be a sexual partner of NXIVM's founder and leader, Keith Raniere. In 2020, she published the book Still Learning: A Memoir. She produced and starred in the documentary series Seduced: Inside the NXIVM Cult, in which Rachel is also featured documenting her work with the Oxenbergs as India transitioned out of NXIVM. In this second part of Rachel and India's intimate two-part episode, India reveals her thoughts about the complex and troubling dynamics of her relationship with Allison Mack, one of the people she describes as her main abusers in NXIVM who was recently sentenced to prison for her role in the group. Throughout the conversation, Rachel helps India to deconstruct her experiences, as she shares deep insights into her indoctrination and ongoing healing. Before You Go: Rachel details the slippery and deceptive path that leads to indoctrination, pointing out how disassociating from your identity helps to lower your defense mechanisms and clouds critical thinking. For resources on sexual violence visit RAINN here: www.rainn.org/ Hear India's mother Catherine speak to Rachel about their shared experience here: https://soundcloud.com/indoctrinationshow/catherine-re-release You can see Rachel, Catherine, and India in the documentary Seduced: Inside the NXIVM Cult: youtu.be/SmogBLEhbjY Find Rachel's book "Now I Know: Kids Talking To Kids About Divorce..." here: www.amazon.com/Now-I-Know-Rachel…ein/dp/1620867893 Find Catherine Oxenberg's book featuring Rachel here: www.amazon.com/Captive-Mothers-C…ook/dp/B07C2C393X Find India's audiobook telling her story in her own words here: www.amazon.com/Still-Learning-A-…oir/dp/B08L3TW37N Thanks to our newest Patreon supporters Catherine Greninger, and Allison!! To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination shirts and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION You can help the show for free by leaving a rating on Spotify or Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show!
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Survivorship w/ India Oxenberg Feb 16, 2022

Show notes

India Oxenberg is a successful film producer, writer, and actress. India is a national ambassador for RAINN (Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network) the nation's largest anti-sexual violence organization. She is also the daughter of our previous guest Catherine Oxenberg who Rachel worked with as a client while India was involved in NXIVM, the infamous multi-level marketing company that was later exposed as a sex cult. While in NXIVM, India was introduced to the cult's inner circle and was groomed to be a sexual partner of NXIVM's founder and leader, Keith Raniere. In 2020, she published the book Still Learning: A Memoir. She produced and starred in the documentary series Seduced: Inside the NXIVM Cult, in which Rachel is also featured documenting her work with the Oxenbergs as India transitioned out of NXIVM. In the first half of Rachel and India's very personal and intimate two-part episode, they re-examine the intense time they shared together in therapy as India made her way out of the grips of the infamous and now imprisoned cult leader Keith Raniere. India opens up to Rachel about what her inner-life has felt like as she begins to leave behind the conditioning and indoctrination that left her scarred emotionally and physically from her time in NXIVM. Throughout the conversation, Rachel guides India through the revelations she had while becoming the person she truly is, rather than who she was told to be. Before You Go: Rachel reminds listeners of the importance of being mindful of what personal details you share, why, and with whom, warning that you can make yourself vulnerable to emotional manipulation. For resources on sexual violence visit RAINN here: www.rainn.org/ Hear India's mother Catherine speak to Rachel about their shared experience here: https://soundcloud.com/indoctrinationshow/catherine-re-release You can see Rachel, Catherine, and India in the documentary Seduced: Inside the NXIVM Cult youtu.be/SmogBLEhbjY Find Rachel's book "Now I Know: Kids Talking To Kids About Divorce..." here: www.amazon.com/Now-I-Know-Rachel…ein/dp/1620867893 Find Catherine Oxenberg's book featuring Rachel here: www.amazon.com/Captive-Mothers-C…ook/dp/B07C2C393X Find India's audiobook telling her story in her own words here: www.amazon.com/Still-Learning-A-…oir/dp/B08L3TW37N Thanks to our newest Patreon supporters Helena Sviglin, Ashera DeRosa, Robert Kucera, and Carrie Bee!! To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination shirts and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION You can help the show for free by leaving a rating on Spotify or Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show!
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Qanon Casualties w/ Jitarth Jadeja Feb 09, 2022

Show notes

Jitarth Jadeja is a former QAnon follower and current moderator of a Reddit group with over 200K followers called QAnon Casualties. Residing in Sydney, Australia, Jitarth has been covered in many major news publications in the U.S. and beyond, providing important insight into the perplexing world of Q. Since leaving Qanon behind, Jitarth has become an invaluable resource not only to high-profile journalists but also to families who have lost loved ones to Qanon. As you'll hear, his charming vulnerability and quick wit have helped him to shine a light on the shadows of Qanon and the conspiratorial right. Jitarth shares with Rachel why he first became consumed with Qanon, explaining the ways in which it affected his familial relationships, specifically with his father who became a Q believer as well. Rachel discusses her experience dealing with the fallout of the Qanon movement. Together they talk through the consequences of Qanon's dangerous disinformation, lamenting the human cost of its voracious growth. Before You Go: Rachel explains the often innocuous reasons and even positive attributes that can cause people to seek community in cultic situations. Additionally, she offers insight on engaging with people whose natural desire for acceptance and status prevents them from thinking critically. Listen to Rachel and Jitarth's conversation on Conspirituality Podcast here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/65-long-haul-qanon-w-rachel-bernstein-jitarth-jadeja/id1515827446?i=1000532569599 Find Rachel's book "Now I Know: Kids Talking To Kids About Divorce..." here: www.amazon.com/Now-I-Know-Rachel…ein/dp/1620867893 Thanks to our newest Patreon supporters Lisa Akers and Stef CLO!!! To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination shirts and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION You can help the show for free by leaving a rating on Spotify or Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show!
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Multi-Layered Trauma w/ Jon Sawyer Feb 02, 2022

Show notes

Jon Sawyer was raised in two homes influenced by both high-demand religion and secular worldviews. Prior to his parent's divorce at the age of four, his family was involved with both Transcendental Meditation (TM) and Christian Science. Shortly after his parent's divorce, his mother took a secular route, while his father converted to Pentecostal and charismatic Christianity. While Jon's father sprinkled elements of TM and Christian Science into his childhood, his dad's newfound evangelical Christian faith fixated on the end of the world, divine healing, speaking in tongues, and the "prosperity gospel." When Jon was fifteen, he converted to Mormonism. From the age of fifteen to thirty-five, Jon was involved with various high-demand religious groups that were associated with both charismatic Christianity and Mormonism. As a teen who was deeply conflicted about his attraction to the same sex, Jon attended the now-defunct Spirit Life Bible College (SLBC)-associated with Roberts Liardon Ministries-in Orange County, CA. While at SLBC, Jon experienced multiple sessions of exorcism and conversion therapies that were aimed at "healing" his sexual identity. When Jon was twenty-six, he became involved with Sovereign Grace Churches: a group that began during the charismatic Jesus Movement of the 1970s and eventually adopted a neo-Calvinist theology that emphasized strict gender roles and courtship practices. Jon separated from organized religion six years ago, at the age of 35. Since that time, Jon has benefited from somatic therapy, completed both a BA and MA in education, and is currently a doctoral student and researcher at the University of Colorado Boulder. Partly due to the influence of his experiences with high-demand religious groups, Jon now studies the intersection of education policy and anti-discrimination law. In this second half of Jon's two-part conversation with Rachel, he shares some of his most traumatic religious experiences going through exorcisms and "conversion therapy" at Spirit Life Bible College. Rachel provides further background on "conversion therapy" outlining its dangerous and often hypocritical roots. Together Jon and Rachel unpack the damaging culture of homophobia in the church and offer hope for recovery to those who have been traumatized. Before You Go: Rachel breaks down the unnerving hubris of religious groups who aim to change the sexual or gender identity of others by forcing them to conform to their own rigid and intolerant beliefs. You can contact Jon here: jonesawyer@gmail.com Find Rachel's book "Now I Know: Kids Talking To Kids About Divorce..." here: www.amazon.com/Now-I-Know-Rachel…ein/dp/1620867893 Thanks to all our Patreon supporters! We truly couldn't make the show without you! To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination shirts and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION You can help the show for free by leaving a rating on Spotify or Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show!
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Parental Paradox w/ Jon Sawyer Jan 26, 2022

Show notes

Jon Sawyer was raised in two homes influenced by both high-demand religion and secular worldviews. Prior to his parent's divorce at the age of four, his family was involved with both Transcendental Meditation (TM) and Christian Science. Shortly after his parent's divorce, his mother took a secular route, while his father converted to Pentecostal and charismatic Christianity. While Jon's father sprinkled elements of TM and Christian Science into his childhood, his dad's newfound evangelical Christian faith fixated on the end of the world, divine healing, speaking in tongues, and the "prosperity gospel." When Jon was fifteen, he converted to Mormonism. From the age of fifteen to thirty-five, Jon was involved with various high-demand religious groups that were associated with both charismatic Christianity and Mormonism. As a teen who was deeply conflicted about his attraction to the same sex, Jon attended the now-defunct Spirit Life Bible College (SLBC)-associated with Roberts Liardon Ministries-in Orange County, CA. While at SLBC, Jon experienced multiple sessions of exorcism and conversion therapies that were aimed at "healing" his sexual identity. When Jon was twenty-six, he became involved with Sovereign Grace Churches: a group that began during the charismatic Jesus Movement of the 1970s and eventually adopted a neo-Calvinist theology that emphasized strict gender roles and courtship practices. Jon separated from organized religion six years ago, at the age of 35. Since that time, Jon has benefited from somatic therapy, completed both a BA and MA in education, and is currently a doctoral student and researcher at the University of Colorado Boulder. Partly due to the influence of his experiences with high-demand religious groups, Jon now studies the intersection of education policy and anti-discrimination law. In this first half of Jon's two-part conversation with Rachel, He shares an intimate portrait of his childhood as he was pulled in the many different and extreme religious directions his divorced parents took. Throughout the conversation, Rachel gives insights into the religious trauma Jon likely experienced as a child by being exposed to graphic demonic imagery. Jon explains how his varied and controlling religious upbringing caused him to internalize homophobia as he examined his own sexuality and place on the LGBTQ spectrum. Before You Go: Rachel warns about the dangers of parental alienation which often occurs in separated families, explaining how this can be exacerbated within families involved in high control groups and relationships. You can contact Jon here: jonesawyer@gmail.com Find Rachel's book "Now I Know, Kids Talking To Kids About Divorce..." here: www.amazon.com/Now-I-Know-Rachel…ein/dp/1620867893 Thanks to all our Patreon supporters! We truly couldn't make the show without you! To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination shirts and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Prefer to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION You can help the show for free by leaving a rating on Spotify or Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show!
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Abuse with a Smile w/ Emily Jan 19, 2022

Show notes

Emily is a former member of C3 NYC where she endured three years of pastoral abuse. Her account @C3ChurchWatch on Instagram was created in June 2020 as an effort to stop the harassment she was experiencing. She did not think anyone but her pastor would notice it, but soon found herself with plenty of followers and supporters privately and publicly citing harm or abuse from C3 churches all over the world. Her church and the Philadelphia location responded by conducting a smear campaign, telling members to block the account, hunting down account supporters, and sending Emily a false legal threat that was rescinded when a journalist became involved. Following along with a larger movement, and with a prior background in cult recovery, Emily quickly saw the need for those exiting toxic evangelical spaces to understand what happened to them and where to go to safely process their experience. She operates her account today to document her own journey, gathers articles and investigations involving C3, holds space for those wanting to share their story publicly or privately, shares resources, helps people find appropriate therapy, and speaks with family/friends of current members. Emily provides some background on C3 Church Global, a charismatic movement founded in Sydney, Australia, with a community of over 500 churches worldwide. In addition to her insights on the mega-church culture in general, she shares her personal experience of pastoral abuse in the Philadelphia location of C3. Rachel and Emily discuss the red flags she noticed along the way as well as the self-doubt that prevented her from having the clarity of mind to see the group for what it really was. Emily shares with Rachel how she ultimately extricated herself from the church and came to victim advocacy work through her IG account. Before You Go: Rachel explains the importance of exploring the biases that may prevent you from noticing warning signs of high control groups. She points out how the optics of certain situations can be a distractionary element that clouds your perspective. Follow Emily's C3 account here: https://www.instagram.com/c3churchwatch/ More Info on C3 here: https://c3churchwatch.com/2012/03/10/macdougalls-testimony-of-pringles-early-beginnings/ Find Rachel's book "Now I Know, Kids Talking To Kids About Divorce..." here: www.amazon.com/Now-I-Know-Rachel…ein/dp/1620867893 Thanks to all our new Patreon supporters: Nicole Kraft Marla Hendershot, Frank Morgan, Jennifer Atkinson, Sylvia Bernstein, and Tara S. To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination shirts and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION You can help the show for free by leaving a review on Spotify or Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show!
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Analyzing Extremism w/ Mark Potok Jan 12, 2022

Show notes

Mark Potok is an internationally renowned expert on the American radical right, who, for 20 years helped lead the legendary Southern Poverty Law Center in exposing hate groups, right-wing terrorism, and the rapidly increasing infiltration of extremist ideas into the political mainstream. In that role, Potok faced numerous death threats from white supremacists and constant vilification by leaders of the far-right media — a remarkable measure of just how effective his work was. Potok has been described in one book on social justice activists as having “a reputation as the preeminent editorial commentator who follows the American radical right.” In 2018, a year after leaving SPLC, he joined the Centre for Analysis of the Radical Right as a Senior Fellow. As the director of the SPLC’s Intelligence Project and, later, Senior Fellow at the SPLC and Editor in Chief of its award-winning Intelligence Report investigative magazine, Potok was a key spokesman for the SPLC, a civil rights organization based in Alabama. He has testified before the U.S. Senate, the United Nations High Commission on Human Rights, the Helsinki Commission, and in other key venues. In this second half of Rachel's conversation with Mark, he shares more of his perspective on the past, present, and future of the radical right, delving into his decades of experience with the Southern Poverty Law Center. Rachel and Mark exchange their ideas about how and why people are drawn to extremist groups and explore the commonalities behind a variety of far-right hate groups. Together they discuss the possible steps of action both individually and societally that may help to quell the increase in political violence and hate crimes. Before You Go: Rachel explores the idea of hereditary hate, explaining how the impressionable nature of children makes them uniquely susceptible to indoctrination into hateful ideology. For more info on Mark's work visit: https://markpotok.net/ For more info on SPLC visit: https://www.splcenter.org/ For more info on CARR visit: https://www.radicalrightanalysis.com/ Hear Rachel's thought on the U.S. Capitol insurrection: youtu.be/9srCmRMoXnQ Thanks to all of our newest Patreon supporters! To help support the show monthly and sign up for cool Indoctrination shirts and tote bags, please visit: www.patreon.com/indoctrination Want to support the IndoctriNation show with a one-time donation? Use this link: www.paypal.me/indoctriNATION You can help the show for free by leaving a rating or review on Spotify or Apple/ iTunes. It really helps the visibility of the show!
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