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In the National Interest — Government
In the National Interest

“In the National Interest” is a podcast that explores the intersection of foreign and defense policy, national security, and U.S. politics. It is not about world affairs, but about American interests and the realist approach needed to promote them. What actually constitutes true realism is, of course, a source of controversy. And so, the series promotes fresh debate by featuring a variety of leading experts from government, industry, journalism, and academia, many of whom may at times disagree with each other. Each episode is hosted by Jacob Heilbrunn, editor of The National Interest magazine, and published by the Center for the National Interest.

Copyright: © Center for the National Interest, 2024

Latest Episodes:

Iran’s Ballistic Missile Attack on Israel (w/ Zalmay Khalilzad) Oct 01, 2024

On Tuesday evening, Iran launched hundreds of ballistic missiles at Israel in what appears to be a direct response to Israel's actions in Lebanon over the past week. What are the consequences of the attack? How great is the danger of further escalation into a regional conflict? And what impact might these events have on next month’s U.S. presidential election? In this episode, Jacob Heilbrunn speaks with former ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad. Khalilzad served as U.S. Special Representative for Afghanistan Reconciliation from 2018 to 2021 and before that held multiple posts in the George W. Bush administration as U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations (2007-09), to Iraq (2005-07), and to Afghanistan (2004-05).

Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

Harris Takes the Fight to Trump (w/ Harry Kazianis) Sep 11, 2024

On Tuesday night, former President Donald Trump faced Vice President Kamala Harris for their first and likely only debate of the 2024 election season. Harris, channeling her prosecutor background, goaded Trump into making a series of preposterous statements. How might her performance influence undecided voters, and what impact could it have on the November election, still several weeks away? In this episode, Jacob Heilbrunn speaks with Harry J. Kazianis, executive editor of The National Interest. Kazianis previously served as part of the foreign policy team for Senator Ted Cruz's 2016 presidential campaign and worked for the conservative Heritage Foundation.

Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

Who Is J.D. Vance? (w/ Harry Kazianis) Jul 16, 2024

On Monday, Donald Trump announced Ohio Senator J.D. Vance as his 2024 running mate. A recent convert to the MAGA movement, Vance has championed Trump’s “America First” foreign policy vision and vocally denounced NATO and U.S. support for Ukraine. What might his selection signal both for the future of U.S. foreign policy and for the direction of the Republican party? In this episode, Jacob Heilbrunn speaks with Harry J. Kazianis, executive editor of The National Interest. Kazianis previously served as part of the foreign policy team for Senator Ted Cruz's 2016 presidential campaign and worked for the conservative Heritage Foundation.

Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

Are We in a New Cold War? (w/ Dan Negrea) Apr 29, 2024

As Washington confronts increasing belligerence from China, Russia, Iran, and North Korea, does the West face the start of a new “cold war”? How should policymakers define victory? And what would a second Trump administration mean for the confrontation? In this episode, Jacob Heilbrunn speaks with Dan Negrea, the Senior Director of the Freedom and Prosperity Center at the Atlantic Council and coauthor with Matthew Kroenig of the new book We Win, They Lose: Republican Foreign Policy and the New Cold War. From 2019 to 2021, Negrea was the State Department’s Special Representative for Commercial and Business Affairs. He previously served as a member of the Secretary of State’s Policy Planning office between 2018 and 2019, where he was responsible for the economic portfolio.

Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

GOP Opposition to Ukraine Aid (w/ Curt Mills) Apr 25, 2024

In a pivotal moment amidst Russia’s ongoing invasion of Ukraine, the U.S. Senate passed a $60 billion aid package for Kyiv in a 79-to-18 vote Tuesday night. Despite the win, the measure faced dogged opposition in the House, where a majority of GOP members—112—voted against it. What explains the growing indifference, if not outright hostility, to Ukraine aid in the Republican Party? In this episode, Jacob Heilbrunn speaks with Curt Mills, executive director of The American Conservative. Mills previously worked at The National Interest, U.S. News & World Report, Washington Examiner, and the Spectator. He was a 2018-2019 Robert Novak Journalism fellow.

Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

Turkey’s Elections: A Major Blow for Erdoğan? (w/ Greg Priddy) Apr 01, 2024

Media coverage has depicted Turkey’s nationwide local elections on Sunday as a major blow for President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and his ruling Justice and Development Party. How significant is this political defeat, and what does it augur both for Turkish and Middle East politics? In this episode, Jacob Heilbrunn speaks with Greg Priddy, a Senior Fellow for the Middle East at the Center for the National Interest. Priddy consults for corporate and financial clients on political risk in the region and previously served as Director for Global Oil at Eurasia Group.

Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

Antonin Scalia and Today's Supreme Court (w/ James Rosen) Mar 27, 2024

Antonin Scalia’s staunch advocacy for constitutional originalism and textualism—and his 1986 appointment to the U.S. Supreme Court—defined a new era in American jurisprudence. As his heirs move to form majorities throughout the federal court system, only now is the full impact of his legacy being realized. In this episode, Jacob Heilbrunn speaks with James Rosen, chief White House correspondent for Newsmax. Rosen is the recent author of Scalia: Rise to Greatness, 1936 to 1986, the first installment in an expected two-volume biography of the Supreme Court justice.

Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

Terror in Moscow and Putin’s Response (w/ Paul Saunders) Mar 23, 2024

Yesterday’s devastating terrorist attack in Moscow—which left at least 115 dead and reportedly implicates the ISIS-K terror group—poses a significant political challenge for Russia’s freshly reelected president Vladimir Putin. In a bid to manage the fallout from his government’s intelligence failure, Putin's initial remarks this morning hinted at Ukrainian complicity, signaling a clear strategy to shift blame. What are the implications for Russian politics as well as Putin’s war in Ukraine? In this special episode, Jacob Heilbrunn speaks with Paul Saunders, a noted Russia expert and the president of the Center for the National Interest. Saunders served in the Bush Administration from 2003 to 2005 as Senior Advisor to the Under Secretary of State for Global Affairs.

Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

Congress’s Tug-of-War Over Ukraine Aid (w/ Scott Cullinane) Mar 21, 2024

As members of Congress depart Washington for yet another recess, critical aid to Ukraine remains stalled. What explains the eight-month deadlock, and what are its consequences for both U.S. foreign policy and Ukrainian defense capabilities? In this episode, Jacob Heilbrunn talks with Scott Cullinane, director of government affairs at the non-profit Razom for Ukraine. Cullinane previously served as founding executive director of the non-profit U.S.-Europe Alliance as well as various positions with the U.S. House Foreign Affairs Committee.

Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

The U.S.-Israel Rift Over Gaza (w/ Greg Priddy) Mar 14, 2024

As the U.S. announces plans to build a humanitarian aid port in Gaza, a confrontation now brews between the Biden administration and the Netanyahu government over Palestinian refugees. Can President Biden forestall an Israeli military offensive into the border city of Rafah? In this episode, Jacob Heilbrunn speaks with Greg Priddy, a Senior Fellow for the Middle East at the Center for the National Interest. Priddy previously served as Director for Global Oil at Eurasia Group. His recent piece “Joe Biden’s Gaza Port Initiative Can’t Hide U.S.-Israel Discord” appears in The National Interest.

Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

Joe Biden's Fiery State of the Union (w/ Harry Kazianis) Mar 08, 2024

Facing growing scrutiny over his age, President Biden came out swinging Thursday night with a forceful State of the Union address that set the tone for the 2024 general election. Will his performance assuage doubts about his fitness, at age 81, to lead the U.S. through an increasingly volatile global order? In this episode, Jacob Heilbrunn speaks with Harry J. Kazianis, executive editor of The National Interest. Kazianis previously served as part of the foreign policy team for Senator Ted Cruz's 2016 presidential campaign and worked for the conservative Heritage Foundation.

Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

Nikki Haley’s Not-So-Super Tuesday (w/ Harry Kazianis) Mar 06, 2024

With Nikki Haley now out of the race for the GOP nomination, will Donald Trump try to bring her back into the fold as his vice presidential pick, or has Haley already sabotaged her chances? In this episode, Jacob Heilbrunn speaks with Harry J. Kazianis, executive editor of The National Interest. Kazianis previously served as part of the foreign policy team for Senator Ted Cruz's 2016 presidential campaign and worked for the conservative Heritage Foundation.

Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

Russian Energy After Two Years of War in Ukraine (w/ Tatiana Mitrova) Mar 04, 2024

Two years after Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, Russia is still exporting oil and gas—but earning less revenue. What are the consequences? In this special episode, Paul Saunders interviews Tatiana Mitrova, a Research Fellow at Columbia University’s Center on Global Energy Policy and Director of the New Energy Advancement Hub. Mitrova is a leading expert on Russia’s energy system.

Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

The Road Ahead for Donald Trump (w/ Curt Mills) Feb 29, 2024

With Donald Trump's path to the Republican nomination in July wide open, what obstacles still stand between him and the White House, and what would his election in November herald both for the GOP and for American democracy? In this episode, Jacob Heilbrunn speaks with Curt Mills, executive director of The American Conservative. Mills previously worked at The National Interest, U.S. News & World Report, Washington Examiner, and the Spectator. He was a 2018-2019 Robert Novak Journalism fellow.

Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

Mitch McConnell: Last of the Republican Old Guard? (w/ Harry Kazianis) Feb 28, 2024

As Republican Senator Mitch McConnell steps down from his leadership post, who in the party will step forward to fill the void left by his historic tenure? In this special episode, Jacob Heilbrunn speaks with Harry J. Kazianis, executive editor of The National Interest. Kazianis previously served as part of the foreign policy team for Senator Ted Cruz's 2016 presidential campaign and worked for the conservative Heritage Foundation.

Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

Has MAGA Seized the Republican Party? (w/ Harry Kazianis) Feb 26, 2024

As Donald Trump barrels toward the Republican nomination for president, what does his continued hold on the GOP mean for its prospects in the 2024 election and the future of the party? In this episode, Jacob Heilbrunn speaks with Harry J. Kazianis, executive editor of The National Interest. Kazianis previously served as part of the foreign policy team for the 2016 presidential campaign of Senator Ted Cruz as well as the Heritage Foundation.

Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

Global Energy and Climate Challenges (w/ Nobuo Tanaka) Feb 20, 2024

Russia’s 2022 invasion of Ukraine has stressed the global energy system. Who are the energy winners and losers? How will the war and U.S.-China competition affect efforts to transition away from fossil fuels? And what are the prospects for nuclear power, after the United States and two dozen other nations agreed to triple capacity by 2050 at the 2023 UN climate summit in the United Arab Emirates? All are critical questions for global energy.

In this episode, Center for the National Interest President Paul Saunders talks with Nobuo Tanaka, Chair of the Steering Committee at Innovation for Cool Earth Forum who served previously as Executive Director of the International Energy Agency and as Chairman of Japan’s Sasakawa Peace Foundation.

Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

Overcoming America’s Nuclear Energy Challenges (w/ John Deutch) Feb 05, 2024

Despite initial optimism about nuclear energy in the fight against climate change, recent setbacks have dampened expectations for rapid nuclear energy growth in the United States. America today faces significant hurdles in extending the operational lifespan of its existing nuclear reactors, reducing construction costs, and fostering investment in new nuclear technologies. On this episode, Jacob Heilbrunn speaks with John Deutch, an emeritus Institute Professor at MIT who served as director of energy research, deputy secretary of energy, deputy secretary of defense and director of central intelligence in the Clinton administration. Deutch recently wrote a piece for The National Interest titled "COP28’s Nuclear Energy Promise Is Still a Long Way Off."

Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

Why Whittaker Chambers and Richard Nixon Matter for Today’s GOP (w/ Sam Tanenhaus) Dec 04, 2023

On the 75th anniversary of their discovery, what is the history of Whittaker Chambers’ infamous Pumpkin Papers, their implications for Richard Nixon’s career, and their significance for conservatism, patriotism, and loyalty in America today? On this episode, Jacob Heilbrunn speaks with Sam Tanenhaus, a contributing writer at the Washington Post’s Book World. He is a former editor of The New York Times Book Review and the author of “Whittaker Chambers: A Biography” (Random House, 1997). His work has appeared in the New York Review of Books, The New Yorker, Vanity Fair, The Atlantic, and the National Interest. His forthcoming book, “William F. Buckley, Jr.: His Life and Times,” will be published in Fall 2024.

Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

Henry Kissinger and His World (w/ Barry Gewen) Dec 01, 2023

Henry Kissinger became the bête noire of the American right and left during and after the Vietnam War era for pursuing what critics decried as amoral realpolitik. On the event of his passing at age 100, what is Kissinger’s legacy for U.S. foreign policy? On this episode, Jacob Heilbrunn speaks with Barry Gewen, a former editor at the New York Times Book Review and the author of “The Inevitability of Tragedy: Henry Kissinger and His World” (W. W. Norton, 2020). Gewen has written on politics, international affairs, and culture for several publications, including The New York Times, The New Republic, Dissent, and The National Interest.

Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

Why America Needs a National Security Software Revolution (w/ David Pearah) Nov 21, 2023

What kind of software revolution does Washington need to promote, and how well is the Pentagon adapting to this new challenge? What are the implications of the conflicts in Ukraine and Israel for software and national security? On this episode, Jacob Heilbrunn speaks with David Pearah, an MIT-trained computer engineer and CEO of SpiderOak, a space cybersecurity company. David recently wrote a piece for The National Interest titled "Defense Gaps with China Can Be Closed with Commercial Software."

Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

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